Miscellaneous Myths: Actaeon
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- You know, the guy who got turned into a deer and devoured by his own hounds! AH SHOOT SPOILERS
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Pardon me for asking this twice on the same video, but does anyone know what the name of the song that starts at 1:42 and goes through to 1:51 is?
Well, what's the theory?
Red hit us with those Actaeon-Orion conspiracy theories
to add to that, what was the song at 2:51 :D
0:22 that shade u threw at jason caught me off guard and i almost died lol
the hounds being confused about where he is then getting a statue made of him made me kinda sad 😭
Poor puppers did nothing wrong.
@billy weed aside from you know killing him...
@@omarsalem1219 they were hunting dogs and he was a deer! They're the goodest bois!
Autonoe and Aristaios had a son, Actaion, who was brought up by Cheiron to be a hunter and was later devoured on Cithairon by his own dogs. According to Acousilaos, he met such a death because Zeus was angry with him for courting Semele, but most authors ascribe it to the fact that he saw Artemis bathing. The goddess, they say, transformed him instantly into a deer and drove his pack of fifty dogs into a frenzy, causing them to devour him without recognizing who he was. Once he was dead, the dogs searched for their master, howling all the while, until their search brought them to the cave of Cheiron, who made an image of Actaion, which brought their grief to an end
@@strayyato1773 I also watched the video thank you
Actaeon: Accidentally seens Artemis naked.
Artemis: I'll punish you for this.
Artists for the next 3000 years: I can use this as an excuse to show Artemis naked!
"Dammit, most of these artists don't even HAVE hounds!"
Oh rule 34 how you ruin everything
not like sapphics are gonna complain
Artemis got Barbara Streisand’ed.
Actaeon won in the end lol
Referring to them as "Artemis's bonkhonagahoogs" is exactly the kind of thing that gets you turned into a deer and devoured by hounds.
I want a modern retelling of the story where Artemis was willing to spare Actaeon because she deemed he made an honest mistake but then hears him refer to them as bonkhonagahoogs and decides he needs to die
@@archivist_13 "worth it"
@@kairuku6552 Actaeon's final words before being irreversibly turned into a deer.
Why not spare him for the mistake then give him a stag that reflects him as well.
@@archivist_13that just sounds like some frat boy coming across her and acting like a dick after being spared
okay the fact that Chrion made a statue specifically to comfort Actaeons hounds is really sad and honestly kind of sweet. those poor puppies :(
Its like a reverse Hachiko
He lives on inside all of them.
"Poor puppies"
Dude they killed somebody.
@@_Opalescence In fairness they didn’t know that the deer was acteon
@@mr.skateandwatch Until he’s fully digested.
Fun fact, in Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Diana's room (aka the deer named after Artemis) is based on a bath house SPECIFICALLY as a reference to this myth.
That's hilarious
I love this in-depth AC lore
It looks really pretty, too!
Oh yeah i love Diana! She's on my island
😲😲😲 omg, I never REALIZED THIS!!
Imagine having:
"Accidentally saw Artemis's bonkhonagahoogs"
written on your tombstone
"Cause of death: Eaten by my own doggos"
As if getting killed by a woman isn't humiliating enough.....
“That Artemass had me Actaeon up.”
@@deadlydingus1138 Take my like and leave
And then a transfer student shows up with even bigger bonkhongahoogas
Red: Say it with me now, he’s-
Me: DEVOURED BY HIS OWN HOUNDS
Red: - A hunter
I'm glad I am not the only one to jump the gun like this 😅
Do you think Artemis ever put up warning signs? Y'know, the "TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT" type of sign, because it feels like this happened a lot in Greek Mythology.
Too civilised. Thats Apollo stuff. Ironically.
Sign should be more specific. "Trespassers will be turned into a deer and devoured by their own hounds. If you are unable to afford hounds they will be provided for you by the goddess"
That would've sent the message across
The entire “wild” was a warning sign. In Greece it was understood that all wild places belonged to Artemis by default. The idea that specific pools were more sacred than others definitely existed, but ALL pools in the deep woods were sacred. There was a non zero chance of this happening the second you stepped off the path, and as Greek citizens would have all known this, no additional signage was necessary.
I love how the only thing that was consistent about this guy is the way he died. Like all the authers agreed that he just had to be killed by hounds.
All I can think is "imagine if there was an 'original story' and his death was completely different in that first version."
A good story has a satisfying ending and apparently all the writers agreed on this one
A good story has a satisfying ending and apparently all the writers agreed on this one
Karma is a bitch.
Maybe all these version happen and it was an running gag that he getting trouble with the gods and gets attacks by hounds
Actaeon: "Oops, did I a hubris and/or sacrilege?"
Hounds: "Our human will be SO pleased with this magnificent buck we took down! By the way: has anyone seen/heard/sniffed where he's at..??"
Chiron: Deduces the mystery better than Sherlock Holmes; plus has the empathy and emotional intelligence to know how to comfort the hounds.
Actually the saddest one cause of the dogs not knowing where he went
Yea, the dude had it coming, the dogs didn't
Yet another reason why Chiron is one of my favorite figures in Greek mythology!
@@jlancov8890 I mean…did he? It seems like it was just a massive accident.
The thing about the Greek gods is that they were venerated out of necessity (humans looking for any slack this rough world might cut them), but hardly idealized. They were humans dialed up to 11: vain, petty, temperamental, lustful, paranoid--with levels of IDGAF and rationalization to match their cosmic power. Not that the gods didn't have compassion or even respect at times; but mortals were mostly just playthings or pests in their eyes.
Okay, here's a theory: some dude's dogs ended up eating him, and the story was just so very viral that everyone and their dog was speaking about it. Perhaps shared as a cautionary tale about not having your dogs too rabid/hungry/mistreated, but, by the time ye Olde telephone game had taken place, it was concluded that this sounded distinctively Devine retribution, and the story was retold from there, hence why the reason is inconsistent: the "original" had nothing to do with gods and goddesses, that was added in retroactively in every situation. The association with Artemis in particular is just that she was a hunter, he was a hunter, he was killed by hunting dogs, so she must have had SOMETHING to do with it.
This theory is FASCINATING!
@@disillusioned.hermit why thank you. I didn't expect such hight praise. You made my day. :)
Honestly, considering people back then associated certain aspects of nature and life with gods it feels like that may have actually happened. 😅
I was thinking the exact same thing, it really has "you heard about the bloke in the other school" vibes
Okay, but hear me out, it starts with some brat antagonizing a large dog to the point that it rips the skin on his head. Bloody screaming followed by poor doggy running off, entitled parents insist their little Aeolus was just being the most perfect of divine creatures and it was an awful attack by beasts most vile.
So things get Spartaned up and soon it's a huge pack of hounds rending an unlucky hunter, who was something of a braggart, into jerky.
Absolutely ended up chuckling like a madman at:
"Accidently sees Artemis's hoohas"
"Accidently sees Artemis's bonkonagahoogs"
"Accidently sees Artemis's and her posse's dobonhonkeros"
I am WEAK P L EA S E--
True it’s hilarious
Bro accidentally peeped some honnalonnanonologongas
When does she say that? I can’t find it in the video
@@sirhurricane4350 it’s not out loud, it’s written down
It's written on 3:55
This story is like a game with fixed ending. No matter what path Actaeon takes it will end with him in hounds' stomach
Lesson learned: don't let David Cage write Greek myths.
...Or anything else, either.
It's just a "choose your own adventure" book with a really bad ending, no matter what you choose.
@@Talisguy The only thing David Cage should be let to is his namesake.
Dive in a cage. And stay there.
@@Corbomite_Meatballs choose your own devoured by your own hounds adventure
Welcome telltale’s version of Greek myths
One day, Red will talk about Ixion. She has basically done all the other guys who got punished. Tantalus, Sisyphus, Piorithus.
The remaining Tartarus denizens in general would be interesting to discuss in fact! Ixion, Tityos, 49 of the 50 Danaides, etc.
Lot of -uses
I have fallan too deep into final fantasy in that the first thought when i saw ixion was, wait why should she talk about the thunder unicorn
@@AlabasterTen The wisdom of Phil.
And that day I shall rejoice
Actaeon: "I'm a better hunter than Artemis!"
Artemis: "Well, I *could* just shoot him from here and call it a day, but I'm really liking the irony of making his hunting dogs eat him."
I'm really liking this version of it. Short, to the point, without a lot of the general cruelty and dragging it out that most Olympians like to do when Mortals start doing that hubris thing.
Eh... isn't it plenty cruel to have him eaten by his probably beloved hounds?
“without a lot of the general cruelty…” Um…what?
@@GAPIntoTheGame Compared to other Olympian punishments, a relatively quick (though painful) death is pretty low on the cruelty scale.
It may have been a quicker punishment than usual, but that level of reaction still has the standard effect of making her, like the rest of the gods, seem petty and insecure.
@@GeneralBolas If we're grading on a curve I guess. It's still just as petty of a reason for the punishment though
Guess I'll be the one who gives Actaeon a happy ending:
After apologizing for the accident Artemis was pretty chill about it. Actaeon lived a pretty normal life afterwards. He died at the age of 72. Cause of death was a stroke... and then he got devoured by his own hounds.
It was never meant to be...
No no his dying wish was for his dead body to eaten by wild dogs Diogenes style.
I mean at that point they'd be completely different hounds so...I guess it doesn't hurt as much as it would normally?
Alternate take: He gets turned into a deer but manages to adapt and lives a long happy life as a deer, even finding a mate and having some fawns.
Then one day his own hounds (now owned by a relative) find him and eat him cause they couldn’t recognize him.
maybe he got his body devoured by the hounds was a last request, now he can be with his loyal hounds even after death
Well...
There's another story about someone seeing Artemis bathing, and here's how it goes:
Kid walks into the grotto unknowingly and sees Artemis. Kid apologizes, but Artemis says no man can see her bathe and stay alive. She turns the kid into a girl. The end.
"Dogs ate his face." "No Hermes I'm asking what happened to Actaeon?" "Dogs. Ate. His face!" "Y'know what put Hephaestus on the phone. Heph, what happened to Actaeon." "Dogs ate his face. Hermes knows more about it."
Excellent MitM reference.
@@HansLemurson First thing that popped into my head.
@@HansLemurson What's MitM?
@@HansLemurson What's MitM?
Malcome in the Middle
5:10 "Featuring a woman, probably Artemis, looking pretty cranky but usually - though not always - fully clothed"
To be fair, if you are depicting the story of a god killing someone for seeing them naked, you mind be disinclined to depict that god naked.
*Artist is about to chisel out the curvature of Artemis's cheeks in his art piece
Artemis: time to have someone else devoured by his hounds
@@CrownofMischief "Mistress, he doesn't have any-" "STRAYS then!"
CrownofMischief
Artemis: *Release the Hounds*
You had more common sense than most of the artists depicting that event, lol
Now I have this image in my head of Artemis sitting in a bath wearing waterlogged robes because the artist wanted to depict her in the bath, but didn't want to risk drawing her naked.
I figured it out. *The True Story* _mystic hand waving_
Actaeon was a hunter, trained by Chiron, who had the hots for Semele. He tried to sway her by boasting about his hunting skills, saying he was better than Artemis herself. Semele, not being the brightest sweet miss, just kind of nods along and tells her boyfriend about it later. Well Zeus is none too thrilled about this upstart both hitting on his gf AND insulting his daughter, so he comes up with a plan. He transforms into Semele and meets up with Actaeon, telling him to prove his boasts by showing her just how good of a hunter he is. "She" tells him to meet him in a certain spot at a certain time with his gear and dogs ready. This certain spot is, of course, Artemis' sacred grotto. This certain time is-- you guessed it-- when Artemis and her squad are bathing. Artemis, both shocked and panicked for herself and worried for her girls, chucks water at the bewildered and stuttering hunter, turning him into a deer. He is thus (drumroll please) turned on and devoured by his own hounds.
THE END
That's brilliant. Get this person a job as a writer for a film adaptation of the myth.
This is surprisingly a great adaptation of the myth.
Damn, that's brilliant
Nothing more satisfying than unifying different tellings into a concise story that hits all the beats and makes sense. Well done 👍
The story feels surprisingly in character for Zeus (the god of one night stands/ spreader of his Divine seed).
Your story also provides a concrete reason for some badness to happen.
The fact that "future dog Chow" didn't take the hint of I have a boyfriend already.
I just can't stop laughing at the thought of ancient Greece's version of "Get a load of this unlucky Jackass" and then putting him everywhere with no context
Omg his story is just that trope in anime where the guy accidentally walks into the girl’s sauna and is beaten half to death before he can explain 😭
Well…there was nothing halfway about this death
@@kazeryu4834 Heh, unfaithful modern adaptation /s
Glad I'm not the only one seeing that.
So the Greek myth inspired that trope. Thats why the girls get super strong, they were being blessed by Artemis.
@@biswasbudhathoki8144 Nah, the trope has a separate origin in Japan.
EDIT: Someone asked what exactly and I answered below, should be the fourteenth or fifteenth reply overall. Should mention again up here though, I'm not completely sure I'm right, I just vaguely remember reading something about it.
I just feel sorry for this dude. The way you told the story, makes him sound like a really unlucky guy, who just happened to be at the wrong place, at the wrong time, or flirt with the wrong woman, at the wrong time. And then he got killed.
Yeah but the same applies to almost anyone, man or woman, who ever met Zeus. Greek mythology is like that overall, no "karma" just "tough luck buddy". If anything the difference here is that a *woman* stumbling upon Artemis bathing might have been spared.
well, it is the counterexample of the trivilisation of stalking and voyarism often happening in western media where women have basicly no right at all to their own body. Is no all that suprising to me, that the sexrepulsed godess of virginity would not be fond of being creeped on and objectefied . . . maybe it was just an acident and he was about to turn away imidietly and all, but the instinctual reaction of feeling violated and defensive rage are quite understandable to me . . . and people go fucked up by gods for less
By his own hounds
@@Photoloss Well, there is another story where a small child walks in a similar situation, but he pleads for his life and is turned into one of Artemis's Hunters
@@Photoloss Worst thing is, he didn't even really meet Zeus. lol He got killed for flirting with the sidepiece of Zeus, the God of Rape.
I feel like Actaeon might've been a real dude who got devoured by his own hounds and people came up with mythology for why it happened later.
I live for Artemis putting a protective hand over one of her nymph's shoulder
Bro same
Mood
Something interesting that you didn’t mention is that Artemis’s actions with Actaeon parallel something Ishtar is said to do in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Specifically when Gilgamesh is admonishing Ishtar for what she did to her past lovers in the sixth tablet: “You loved the heardsmen, shepherd and chief shepherd who was always heaping up the glowing ashes for you and cooked ewe lambs for you every day. But you hit him and turned him into a wolf and his own herd boys hunt him down and his dogs tear at his haunches”. This might suggest that Actaeon is a Mesopotamian myth or that a Mesopotamian myth was latter synergized with an existing one. While Ishtar isn’t generally conflated with Artemis as you mentioned there is some ambiguity over the god Actaeon pissed off.
This is a really interesting theory.
@@hiromitailor8075 Especially when you remember that Aphrodite was kind of an import of Ishtar.
I have theorized that the original story was obscured by Artemis's transformation from a fertility goddess into a virgin goddess.
Could be….but idk, that’s kinda a loose connection? It’s not a hard idea, “getting turned into something for hubris and killed by your own mates.” The difference in the details (he’s turned into a wolf, nothing like that happens in Acteons myth) makes it suspicious. Still, interesting theory
@@DavidJoh wasn't there a specific cult that did see Artemis as a fertility goddess? Also i seem to recall there are stories of Artemis aiding women in childbirth lending credence that she was at some point related to fertility
What's interesting about his depictions is that it seems irrelevant if he was a victim or not.
No effort is made to show if his transgression was accidental or not; all that matters is that the Gods were upset.
So what is the lesson to learn from Actaeon? That sometimes the Gods are just out to get you and you're screwed?
I feel like ancient artists and craftsmen put his tale on pots and vases the same way cars today have 'shit happens' bumper stickers.
Maybe artists just liked having an excuse to depict a little bit of a guy being eaten by hounds and the story itself doesn't have that much of a point. Just a spot of cathartic ultraviolence sculpted into the side of a vase!
Even the ancient Greeks seem to have understood that sometimes, life's just out to kick you in the balls, and then steal your coin purse.
Red did say that one of the tellings specified that just seeing them naked was sacrilege (accident or not) because being virgin was part of their godhood. So, unlucky bastard: yes, but it did say it was crime by default. Kinda like trespassing on a military base even though by pure accident
@@MatthewCSnow Also the way the myths always emphasize Actaeon being a hunter might have another reading, like he went to the lake so he can "hunt" some virgins.
@@MatthewCSnow Well yes, but military bases tend to have fencing and clear signage. This poor bastard had no warnings, just really bad luck going for him.
*Yamcha:* "Who are you?"
*Actaeon:* "I'm you, but ancient Greek."
*_rustling in the bushes; both look_*
*_Saibaman pops out_*
*hounds pop out*
*Yamcha:* "It's been an honor." *_death pose_*
*Actaeon:* "It really hasn't." *_death pose_*
That hit surprisingly hard.
"It really hasn't" killed me
Ngl, I could see Bulma pulling a mynaid if someone peeked on her bathing . No god like power, just pure anime rage. Girl slapped Beerus TWICE and lived to tell the tale.
Honestly slightly disappointed there wasn't a single Yamcha reference in here. It's low hanging fruit, but it fits sooo well.
Why have you appeared in THIS video, my Mustached Rival???
To be honest i really like the bath one, bc it really goes well with the methaphor that is recurrent in the mythos were
1- Seeing (generaly) godess naked leads to something bad
2- They are more than simply powerful beings, they are what they represent
So Tiresias saw wisdom in it´s purest form, so he got blind but could see into the future, Paris saw love in it´s purest form but rejected wisdomm and power/sucess and saw how love alone can ruin lives, Actaeon saw the true meaning of the hunt, it´s way better being the hunter but you know what they say "one day as a hunter another as the hunted"
That's a really good analysis.
If I had a nickel for every dude who saw Artemis bathing and got transformed, I'd have 2 nickels. I mean it's not a lot but its weird that it happened twice.
You'd think someone would put up a sign or something: "Go No Further! Artemis Using Aesop Coriander Seed Body Cleanser Ahead".
Technically you'd have one nickel, the other ones a girl now
@@AmyOnhercomputer At least Sipriotes didn't have to settle an argument between Zeus and Hera whether guys or girls enjoy sex more. Unlike poor Tiresias...
@@AmyOnhercomputer I know, that's a transformation
A similar thing happened with Athena, and she left that guy (Tiresias, specifically) blind.
"Renaissance artists were weird like that"
Speaking as someone who has taken at least a couple art history classes covering the Renaissance, this is too true.
Nude women are only art if there's an urn in it.
go to schol becase teecher says go to schol? am i circus animel or what? i make yt videes becase thats my dreem. liv my dreem is what i do. thats what i do. hopefooly the videes are good for you deer mer
@@AxxLAfriku *_HOW ARE YOU STILL ALIVE._*
@@CoralCopperHead People like this a-hole would have Darwin scratching his head and going, "Wha...".
Oddly enough, I always heard the Actaeon story as less of a "Whoopsie! I just saw nude Artemis." and more of the fact that he lingered, stared, and probably cat-called. Not sure how much of this is modern reworkings.
Likely made in an attempt to make his death more justified.
There is 0 way you are dumbass enough to cat call deities that always do unpleasant things to you when you see them naked
I feel it often gets notes he wasn’t just unlucky but being very stuoid about it
as a pagan (at least based on what i know) youre right. he’s a hunter, he probably made a sacrifice to Artemis minutes before this incident. he would have known what signs to look for not to mention a deity’s presence (at least from my experience) is hard to miss even from a distance. so yeah he was just an idiot or actively looking for trouble
@@plantlover3741I’m very curious to learn what are the sighs that deity is near by?
"The rookie mistake of being shaped like a deer at the time." Ah yes, the leading cause of death for Wild-Shape Druids. We can only hope they take comfort in being part of the beauty of nature.
You’d think with all the stories of Artemis getting peaked on out in the wild, she’d like, IDK, put up a magic fog cloud that drives away passerbys or something.
IDK, I’m not the semi-omnipotent hunter goddess who can turn man into a deer but the concept of the bathroom door is beyond me
Silly mortal, it's not the responsibility of God(s/dess/desses) to prevent human folly, just deal out swift and excessive punishment for minor infractions. At least he got to feed his doggies one last time instead of say ... being turned into salt for looking at a city.
I don't think bathrooms had doors at that time.
@Charles Hockenbury
It's the ancient Greek version of Love Hina, and a thousand other terrible anime. "OH NO, BOOBS!" "YOU PERVERT!" "I'M SORRY, DON'T KILL ME! AIIIEEEEEE!" *She murders him."
Right? You think with all that divine power the god's would have better problem solving skills
@@Alverant to be fair the city was essentially nuked
Chiron saying "They never listen about the hubris thing" had me rolling with laughter
explanation of why this happened varies.
I appreciate how buffed Artemis depicted here.
Makes sense for a badass huntress.
As soon as the first "devoured by his own hounds" scene appeared I wished for it to become a recurring gag, and thank the gods it did.
And with gods I of course mean Red.
Thank you Red.
Red, you can’t leave us hanging on a “ask me about my Actaeon-Orion conspiracy theory”. The people (or at least me) need to know!!!
^^^
Please!
^^
Same!
plheASSSSEEEE
Fun Fact: there is a ballet based on this myth named "Diana and Actaeon", and rather than having him be killed by his hounds, it has the two falling in love.
This made no sense to me when I learned about it, and upon further research it seems that the ballet's version of Artemis was conflated with Selene ( both associated with the moon) and they made Actaeon her Endymion.
Welp that's even more silly.
@Hiromi Tailor
The artist who created that version knew exactly what she was doing. She simply modified an already existing play. And after looking at who she got to play everyone on opening day...well, the Greeks would be proud of the sculpted hero with the face of a boy and an innocent disregard for modesty.
And the Goddess was played by a dancer who can say many things in the way she looks at you. If you were going to cast anyone as Selene in all but name, she'd be the ideal.
Might there have been an intentional subversion of who is gazing on who, and the love story meant to find a middle ground between the asexual (Artemis) and the predatory (Selene)?
And then they both were devoured by their hounds
There’s an episode from Olympus Guardian and there’s a small scene where Artemis fell in love with Endymion
That's a shame. As someone who watched a surprisingly high number of ballet presentations due to my sister, these things can be very crowded and full of movement. A scene of a man "running" without moving while a small crowd of shorter people "persue" him, with the music getting faster anf faster as they close in could be sick. Or silly. But possibly sick.
1:55 I love how Chiron's solution was basically to just give the dogs a new human.
Yeah, it’s super sweet!
I just love the image of Artemis protectively covering up one of her maidens while starring daggers into Actaeon. 💙
Theory: All the myths have their own Acteon and it's just a super common name for Greek characters. Ignore that everything else besides the reason he died is the same.
So in this theory anyone with that name just runs the risk of this death curse?
Maybe Actaeon was less of a name and more like an archetype? Like "someone who was devoured by his own hunting dogs after offending the dogs" is WAY too long of a word compared to "Actaeon" - maybe the same way we use the words "Cuck", "Beta", "Simp", "Incel" etc. ancient Greeks just used the word "Actaeon" to describe such a guy? That's why they share a "name" and some core qualities but can differ in the details.
So kinda like how the central character in most jokes about the Irish is named Paddy, or jokes about Bavarians all being about some guy named Ignatius (kinda, technically speaking, they used the common diminutive nickname form of Ignatius, but the internet overlords won't let me actually type that, I will say, it begins with "N" and ends in "zi" and is two syllables).
So you are saying it is super common for ancient Greek to be eaten by their hounds?
@@Great_Olaf5 Yeah and there are also modern day examples like how Karen is currently used in American culture, or Kevin in Germany.
I remember reading a version of the Odyssey where when Odysseus meets Princess Nausicaa, he mistakes her for Artemis and asks her, "Please don't turn me into a stag like you did to Acteon." She assures him that she is an ordinary human.
Seems legit
I heard that this is actually more of Odysseus' cleverness striking again: How do you gracefully tell a princess you were accidentally peeping on her in a way that won't get her to call her guards on you? "Mistake" her for a goddess! You get to make a big show about your sincere apology, while also subtly complimenting her on her beauty. Suddenly you go from vagabond to charmer.
I wouldn't blame him
@@HansLemurson Bruh that level of trickery reminds me of that one piece of media where some guy offers a girl a kiss and gives her the candy when she’s shocked
@@ikoniful3984 Odysseus absolutely either would have come up with that idea himself or taken whoever did come up with that idea as his sidekick
Chiron comforting the doggos with a statue hit me hard in the feels. The poor confused puppers!
Actually what I take away from this cluster of unlikely events are that those so-called writers have no idea that trained hunting dogs almost never attack even a deer, without commands from the person who trained them. There are plenty of dangerous beasts roaming the mountains, which would have no problem rendering a hunter who failed to control his pack.
So no, people don't get ripped apart by dogs for no reason and the gods are monsters turning good boys into mindless creatures.
The gods are assholes but staring at the naked body of godess who doesnt want the company of men has its risks also i always thought it was artemis manipulating the dogs to kill him as a deer
Or they were badly trained dogs with a high prey drive.
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 Which makes Actaeon fate even funnier.
Or that Ovid had no idea how dog training worked.
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 The moral of the story: always train your hunting dogs, or when you accidentally see a goddess's bonkhonagahoogs and get turned into a deer to shut you up, they might chase you down and eat you.
I love these dives where we not only get to look at a myth, but also get to take a look at how it developed, the different versions, and what we can learn from the wide variety of existing material. Really helps illuminate the point that myths are things that develop, grow, and change in the telling and the course of time, instead of a single fixed hard-and-fast canon that has always been what it is.
Same
My thoughts exactly, worded better than I could ever put it
Something I found interesting about Actaeon that you didn’t really bring up is that he is not the only close member of his family that was torn apart by something. I mean, dude was first cousins with Pentheus (the king in the Bacchae) AND with Dionysus himself, and his mom and aunts were maenads. To further the Dionysus connection, in some versions, his sister is the one who raises baby Dionysus. Considering the cult of Dionysus’ habit of ritualistically shredding things, including deer, I don’t know, I just find it an interesting little connection.
It might, of course, have gone the other way: Actaeon gets re-written as part of the Dionysian family because later authors make the same parallel that you just did.
Yeah, the hitting-on-Semele version gave me a start because in the Bacchae, at least, she's his *aunt.*
@@Teackay Hey, don't hate the player hate the game.😘
1:20 THE WONDER WOMAN THEME KICKING IN💀
You could say being a hunter that's devoured by his own hounds is a hard Actaeon to follow.
So basically he got the Godiva treatment;
He saw a girl he shouldn’t have seen nude and got punished. But instead of losing his eyes, he lost his life from
Hounds
I think you mean the peeping Tom treatment? Iirc they're the guy who got eye blind from watching Lady Godiva naked but not sure
According to Wikipedia (so presumably also to its sources) the oldest remaining reference to Peeping Tom (not by name) dates to 1732, some six and a half centuries after Lady Godiva's death, and, in that version, his peeping "cost him his life".
@@whafflete6721 that’s who I mean. Guy was either beaten to death for looking at the naked Godiva or got his eyes ripped out. Or God blinded him. It’s kinda varied
@@rmsgrey again going by a legend here. I don’t know the full accuracy of it
@@rmsgrey I mean, the whole story of Lady Godiva's clothesless ride was also probably made up, so...
Some hours later...
Artemis, having calmed down: Do you think I overreacted a bit?
Nymph: Maybe a little.
Artemis sighs, pressing a hand to her forehead. As she looks out over the plains, she notices a pack of hunting dogs baying mournfully, their master nowhere in sight. Around their mouths is blood, and caught between their teeth are bits of deer flesh.
Artemis: ...oh, what the hell. Least I can do at this point.
The next time Artemis and her huntresses passed by a village in pursuit of some exotic game, onlookers noticed there seemed to be more hunting dogs than usual accompanying them.
This is now my headcanon lol. Thank you 😌
@@disillusioned.hermit SAME
I like this
Literally the bare minimum
I love this
There’s also a version where he fell in love with Artemis the minute he saw her and wanted to marry her, the guy could have run away because Artemis didn’t notice him. But he had to do it. And of course the rest was basically him getting eaten by his own hound.
Edit: I mean, who could blame him? He’s not the only one who fell in love with Artemis.
I remember reading that version of the story in Percy Jackson's Greek Gods and thinking "damn how much of a dumbass do you have to be to go for ARTEMIS of all the gods and humans?"
Than I played Hades and now I live in fear of getting devoured by hounds.
He intruded on her privacy. I can. I can blame him.
@Space Cat Hey if you unknowingly open the door and see someone naked in the bathtub is that really your fault or the dumbass who forgot locks existed?
Actaeon is interesting. I like to imagine he was a recurring character who always clumsily angered the gods as a running gag in the mythos and all the different things he did are canonically true.
“Oh My Gods! They Killed Actaeon!” “You Bastards!”
Actaeon: *Exists*
His hounds: And we took that personally.
Oof.
Happened to pause at 3:55 and got a good laugh reading the reasons for why Actaeon got devoured by his own hounds: "Accidentally saw Artemis's hoohas", "Accidentally saw Artemis's bonkhonagahoogs", and "Accidentally saw Artemis and her posse's dobonhokeros" 🤣
I don't even know how to pronounce those, and I was cracking up. XD
@@AegixDrakan it's a reference to a meme, look up "new anime plot copypasta"
@@AegixDrakan I couldn't pronounce them either. And I did try. 🤣
Same here! Where the hell did Red find the last 2 synonyms!?🤣🤣
"Actaeon" sounds like an Eevee that evolves into a Shakespeare.
When he was turned into a deer and ran he was Actaeon his instincts.
I see you ....took me a sec, but you got me.
This really feels like a contemporary meme template. I could easily see something like:
"Actaeon fucks something up"
- insert image
"Gets eaten by his own Hounds"
being a thing nowadays.
Like a joke where the setup changes but the punchline changes the same,
Actually makes sense, I mean wrong any god in any way and you'll be dead
"I am eaten by my own hounds" was a common ending to posts on Ancient Greek Tumblr
"Ask me about my Actaeon-Orion conspiracy theory"
Well don't leave us in suspense here, Red!
Where was that part, may I ask?
@@Elthian it's in the rolling credits bit when Red sings her ukelele songs
Two things I noticed at the 3:27 Mark.
One Artemis doesn't seems particularly disturbed
and two, Well, if the whole point of that was to make certain He Couldn't tell the story than, well, to quote Jack sparrow "No survivors, Then where do the stories come from, I wonder....”
Ovid's version has the embellishment of naming all of Actaeon's hounds.
there's also one guy who seemed to think that what really happened was that Actaeon just owned too many dogs and was "eaten alive" by them as a figure of speech.
“Accidentally sees Artemis’s bonkhonagahoogs,” will forever live in my mind as the single greatest obituary report in history.
I like how you drew Artemis slightly thicker to show that she's a hunter so it would make sense that she is pretty jacked.
--I wish those thighs can make me to a stag too--
Interestingly, I read a version of a myth about Aura who described Artemis having a rather womanly body:
"Artemis, you only have the name of a virgin maid, because your rounded breasts are full and soft, a woman's breasts like the Paphian, not a man's like Athena, and your cheeks shed a rosy radiance! Well, since you have a body like that desirous goddess, why not be queen of marriage as well as Kythereia (Cytherea) with her wealth of fine hair, and receive a bridegroom into your chamber? If it please you, leave Athena and sleep with Hermes and Ares. If it please you, take up the bow and arrows of the Erotes (Loves), if your passion is so strong for a quiver full of arrows. I ask pardon of your beauty, but I am much better than you. See what a vigorous body I have! Look at Aura's body like a boy's, and her step swifter than Zephyros (the West Wind)! See the muscles upon my arms, look at my breasts, round and unripe, not unlike a woman. You might almost say that yours are swelling with drops of milk! Why are your arms so tender, why are your breasts not round like Aura's, to tell the world themselves of unviolated maidenhood?"
@@Kelaiah01 So, she’s built like Aphrodite and she’s a couple with Athena?
@@9Godslayer I don't know about Artemis being built like Aphrodite (I personally figure that Artemis has an "in between" kind of body; not as voluptuous as Aphrodite, but not as muscular as Athena), but I think the part about "leave Athena and sleep with Hermes and Ares" is more about how Artemis should give up being a virgin.
After all, Athena is also known for being a virgin with, as Red pointed out, "no time for Aphrodite's shenanigans." So I doubt she and Artemis were a thing (especially since both goddesses lived in completely different areas; Athena was a city girl while Artemis preferred the wild).
My favorite version of the story is the one where Acteon is just a pervert watching women bathe (possibly planning to do something to them) and Artemis fulfills her roll as a defender of women by chasing him off. Cursing him to be devoured by his own hounds.
Based Artemis
Yeah, the version I was told was that he was specifically told that this grotto was a nymphs and Artemia bathing zone and he thought he should take a peek
The ultimate story of "Oopse, sorry. Wrong door."
Though I guess in this case it would "Wrong pool of water." ?
Ok now I desperately want to hear your Actaeon-Orion conspiracy theory, you can’t just leave me hanging like that!
Her theory is basically "Actaeon and Orion are both hunters, depicted as hunting, in relation to Artemis so they are the same!"
I'd like to hear that theory as well!
I would also like to see this conspiracy theory on a cork board like Red did with the Loki threads.
Points to Chiron for immediately getting to work on comforting the dogs… as someone who had to put his 12-year old dog down a few weeks ago… seeing one of the hounds rest it’s head in the statue’s lap the same way my dog liked to do with me, even as he passed, that hits a spot I didn’t know needed it… thanks red :)
I hope you’re doing well.
I'd love to see a video on Scylla who was basically transformed because a witch was jealous of her for inadvertently having the eye on a man who'd been turned into a merman.
4:56
That's actually kind of funny. Shame on anyone who sees Artemis bathe, but many, many years later and we got a bunch of horny artists depicting her in "the full moon". Godspeed you artists. One man died to live on as a tale for others to recreate through paintings.
Okay, I kind of want this guy to be put in FGO as a “you killed Kenny” style recurring joke.
He'd be a Lancer if he was in Fate.
"Oh my god, Actaeon got devoured by his own hounds!"
"You bastards!"
@@merrittanimation7721 niceeee
I know almost nothing about Fate, but I'm pretty sure he'd be adapted into some kind of deer-girl if that happened.
A deer femboy with common Servant classes as Archer, Lancer, and Avenger
NP involves his hounds, each immortalized as phantasmal beasts of some kind
By offering up his own flesh, the hounds grow in strength and ferocity; a Master unwisely using this to feed the dogs too much will result in them re-enacting the myth but in exchange letting loose a bunch of loyal monsters each with the strength of a Berserker
Your beginning description of Actaeon makes me wonder how modern day vines and memes would be framed in ancient Greece 🤔
frankly... basically the Di-vine series is my guess lol
That, or basically the same things in the graffiti at pompeii
*apud nos*
Bold of you to assume they wouldn't get turned into the happy crackhead trio;aka Dionysus,Apollo, & Hermes, shenanigans
Pretty much as they're shown. Remember these were plays and things.
Moral of the story, don’t peep at a Goddess while’s she’s bathing or else someone will release the hounds!
There was a type of monster in older editions of D&D called "Actaeon"; it was also called an "Elk Centaur" even though it's appearance CLEARLY screams "Elk Minotaur".
Hot take: Acteon was a real guy who, through a chain of highly unlikely events, wound up being found alone, dead and in the process of being eaten by (possibly his) dogs.
Now, the greeks are famous for two things in particular: Sailing and sheep. Now, I don't personally know a lot about ancient greek shepherding techniques, but I'm going to go ahead and say that dogs were incredibly important not just to the high-class hunting folk, but also to many common peasants. As such, it would have been unimaginably scary to think your own dogs would betray you, giving this story its (relative) prevelance and would explain why name, profession and circumstances of death remain consistent while the explanation of why this happened varies.
that's a really good theory,well done good sir!
It's also true that in ancient Greek and Roman culture having your corpse be eaten by animals (especially by scavengers like crows) was seen as the worst thing that can happen to you after death- burial rites were important, and being eaten denies you that
I can vibe with this.
👏👏👏👏
just adding my personal theory here, but the idea of betrayal/turnabout dismemberment rly does pop up a lot!! red’s first source (euripedes’ bacchae) ends in the same way: the king of thebes doesn’t believe bacchus is a real god, so bacchus tricks him into spying on the maenads. king promptly gets caught and dismembered by the women, including his Mom, who’s enchanted by bacchus into believing she’s killing a lion.
the references to actaeon in the bacchae are a parallel to the play’s ending and themes about not pissing off the gods. but they’re also very interesting in that context, because euripides Directly connects the two myths. he refers to the spot near thebes where the maenads kill the king as the “same spot” where actaeon was ripped apart. and both maulings take on a sort of ritual sacrifice-a duped group taking down the one they used to follow, in service of a wild god who was slighted. or their maidens, who were spied upon.
and although dionysus himself doesn’t seem to show up in any other tellings, his MOM does!! bc apollodorus cites actaeon as a suitor of semele, who according euripedes, lived IN THEBES. it’s all coming together.
SO. my crack theory is this: whatever the original myth of actaeon was, euripedes may have bent it a bit for his narrative and created this connection between dionysus and actaeon. that survived in the popular imagination as the semele version of the myth, which eventually apollodorus recounted as the less-popular offshoot. it’s not impossible that euripedes’ version created some of the variation discussed in the video.
(or, if i wanted to go off the deep end, i could wonder how actaeon (ritualistically destroyed by a wild god for his hubris, then tied together in an old play about a pre-Olympian bacchus) may have once been connected with dionysus in a stronger capacity. after all, the god who cursed him isn’t consistent! maybe in the days of his old wine cult in arcadia, Dionysus punished actaeon.) but im no expert of course. all i can say is that he was, for sure, devoured by his own hounds. 😌
*_"This angered Actaeon's hounds, who devoured him severely"_*
Oversimplified let’s gooooo
A sophisticated Oversimplified reference? Here's a -tax- applaud for that
"Ahh, Ancient Greece. The sun is shining, the birds are singing, the children are playing in the village square. What a wonderful time to be alive!"
"You just saw Artemis naked, aaaand you have been turned into a deer, aaaand you are being eaten by your own hounds."
"What an awful time to be alive!"
"Insulting the gods? There's a tax for that"
The version I heard was that he had no idea that Artemis would be there as he'd been to that spring multiple times. He hurled himself to the ground instantly and begged for mercy, she wasn't having it and turned him into a dear and personally ordered his dogs to rip him to shreds, while laughing in utter glee the entire time.
The feminist version
We need an episode on Nezha. His myth is really cool and I would love to see it brought to this collection of myths. Plus Red has already shown Nezha in the journey to the west so it would be a great way to introduce his story to those who watched those episodes.
Yes!
Athena, also spelled Athene, in Greek religion, the city protectress, goddess of war, handicraft, and practical reason, identified by the Romans with Minerva. She was essentially urban and civilized, the antithesis in many respects of Artemis, goddess of the outdoors. Athena was probably a pre-Hellenic goddess and was later taken over by the Greeks.
Thanks, watching Saint Seiya made me wonder what was strange with the spelling.
To be fair, Artemis is also pre-hellenic, being found in linear b texts from Mycenaean Greece. But, you make some good points, regardless.
Makes sense.
Especially since the later Athenians would never choose to name a city after a woman, no matter how good her olives were.
@@snowyowl235 language is wild like that lol. I mean, we are translating from a language with a different alphabet. So, some spelling issues are basically guaranteed. Also, Saint Seiya is not a very reliable source for basically anything. They really butchered the mythology, as well as just being very polarizing in the anime community for various reasons.
@@tyrant-den884 lmao I'm almost certain that it was named during the hellenic period, believe it or not. Then again, I could be completely wrong. But, among other things, they did make some of the goddesses virgin, most likely. They did that in order to further their patriarchal agenda. Athena and Artemis, in many ways, stood for what a woman "should be." According to the male greeks, at least. An unmarried, untouched woman, bc you know, men wanted to make sure the goods weren't previously owned, so to speak. Also, literally speaking, since women were essentially livestock, back then. Sad, but true. Marriage and the consummation was a property exchange. Hence a dowry. You were buying another man's daughter. It wouldn't be too out of the question to name a city after a goddess that is structured in a way to further subdue the women by giving an example of what was expected of them.
Man, I wonder if this Acteon guy is related to that other Orion fella who Artemis allegedly liked. If only we had someone with a conspiracy theory all about that.
Note cards and strings at the ready!
Yeah it'd also be great if they had a series on their RUclips channel that would fit for that kind of talk
Some of my all time favourite myths you’d probably have fun talking about:
-the golden of Prague
-the fantastic tale of how everything was invented because Amaterasu wouldn’t come out of her room
-Adam’s first wife Lilith who I was shocked to not find you have already talked about
She did Amaterasu's.
This is really cool. I know this story but it’s a bit different:
- Actaeon is a proud hunter
- Hunts a deer sacred to Artemis
- Deer runs to the bathing Artemis for protection
- Artemis turns him into a deer
- He gets devoured by his dogs
Even now this story keeps changing every time its retold.
So you’re telling me Greek mythology started the whole “Baka, pervert!” trope in anime where the guy accidentally sees the girl naked and she has an extremely disproportionate and violent reaction? Man.
Did you mean: The introductory incident of every magic/mech school harem anime to come out in the 2010s
who would have figured that the mendispising, sexrepulsed godess of virginity would not apriciate beeing perved on and objectified . . . in contrast to hera punishing women for having been raped, this one is an act of impuls I find relatabe
@@SingingSealRiana Fair point. Probably the only other experience Artemis has with men that randomly find her in the forest at this point are Orion and other weirdos trying to rape her nymph friends, so she immediately goes into defensive mode.
That being said the modern trope doesn’t have any of this historical or mythological context so it now just ends up being shallow by comparison.
Acteon: Basically there's this Goddess, except she's got HUGE boobs. I mean some serious HONKERS-
Artemis: *ZORTS into deer*
@@SingingSealRiana It's greek mythology woman in general are treated terribly outside of the goddess and even then they get a rough time
There’s also a single mention in Liberalis’s Metamorphoses that another hero named Sipriotes was turned into a woman for seeing Artemis bathing, which makes it sound like Artemis was the ancient world’s riskiest HRT alternative.
Artemis flips a coin to decide whether she turns you into a woman or a stag
Thank you for letting us know this existed
The end result does seem to agree that there would be no dysphoria afterward, although half the time it’s because there’s no body.
So long as you've got the right vibe and mindset it'd... probably be fine. Probably.
@Merritt Animation I heard it was because this particular character merely _glimpsed_ Artemis, whereas Actaeon actively gazed/leered at her.
Also possible early artists might have portrayed him as a human because they worried the viewer of the art might not get the reference. I mean, a deer getting eaten by hounds... that could just be a Thursday. 😂
Red's antagonism and disdain for Jason is just *chef's kiss*
Hades: "Name?"
Newly Dead: "Acteon."
Hades: "Cause of death?"
Acteon: "Eaten by my own dogs."
(Hades stops writing)
Hades: "Hunting dogs?"
Acteon: "Umm, yeah..."
Hades: "Damn it, Artemis, get a hold on your temper!"
This was even funnier to me than usual, because I imagined Acteon approaching Hades' desk still in his Stag form. XD
Hades is probably tired of this lol
@@gabyzz1331 hades has to deal with every mortal killed by a god, this has to be every day for him.
I can imagine that he would be annoyed that so many died because of a certain deity that does not learn from their mistakes.
@@gabyzz1331 "My Dear Niece, Please bathe in a more secluded location. Love, Hades"
I wish that we still had access to the story of Siproites. He was a young hunter like Actaeon who also saw Artemis bathing, but instead of being devoured by his hounds, Artemis turned him into a woman. What followed seems to have been lost to history, which is a shame because it sounds like it could have been a fun story, if the similar tale of Tiresias is anything to go by.
Ayo new transition method just dropped?
W h a t n o w
If I recall correctly, Siproites' fate was different because he was specifically a boy; a child. This is why he got turned into a female which spared his life.
Whether Artemis knew he was just a boy (not a man), and fell under as a child which technically was her domain (stretching the goddess of childbirth aspect)- can't really tell. But the main point is that Siproities was a boy (thus young hunter) which saved him from a deathly demise.
Well, he was spared because he hadn't hit puberty and also because he immediately got on his knees begging.
@@mvalthegamer2450 Adding on to what you said Artemis was also a protector of children so killing a male child who just happened to stumble across her bathing is kind of against everything that defines her
Props for coming up with a different way to refer to Artemis's ta-tas in every column it's referenced
The version of the story I knew was that when he stumbled in on Artemis bathing instead of apologizing and going away he just stood there staring like a creep, and that was what pissed off Artemis
"Which is also when artists started giving us imagery of Artemis bathing, totally missing Ovid's warning," says the woman who has Artemis naked in the thumbnail and throughout the video.
Well from the sounds of it, Artemis is fine with women seeing her naked. Unless you're suggesting Red is screwing over all her male viewers to get devoured by hou-
🤣🤣
She’s ace *and* a woman she’s fine.
@@kjl3080 the thing is the public is also seeing the thumbnail...
@@lindenbrock4102 well... i guess we all are going to die by our hounds. Never tought i was going to die that way but okay then.
My theory is that this was the ancient version of the Aristocrats joke, where the lead up changes from storyteller to storyteller but always ends with this one bozo getting offed by his dogs. Unlike the Aristocrats joke, they probably didn't do nearly as much of the weird and grotesque stuff that comedians doing the Aristocrats joke have done nowadays.
I dunno. The Greeks had vivid imaginations. There might be an even wilder version out there that we simply haven't discovered yet, or that got scrubbed from the pseudo-canon by moral guardians, or was simply never written down in the first place.
What is the "Aristocrats joke"?
@@kjj26k It’s an off-color joke which usually involves a family or the head of the household going to a talent agent and doing (or simply describing) something typically absolutely horrid as a kind of “act.” Nothing’s off the table and this part is usually ad libbed. Then, when it’s done, the agent asks “what’s this act called,” and the punchline is “The Aristocrats!”
It’s basically a setup and punchline you have to provide the midsection to, and is usually pretty dirty.
@@bitchesbrew2315
Ah, thank you for the knowledge.
@@bitchesbrew2315 I finally get that Helsing Ultimate Abridged joke.
Actaeon is just "Oh my god, they killed Kenny"
I've never heard the bit about Actaeon's dogs getting confused and sad and Chiron making a statue to help them feel better. That's somehow so much sadder than the dude getting torn apart by his own dogs. 😢
3:16 Artemis reassuringly holding one of her nymphs, I don't know why, but I find that adorable
Will you guys ever cover Morrigan? The Irish goddess of darkness? There's some good shit to be found in Irish mythology
You mean that sexy succubus lady? Yes please. 🤤🤤🤤
*The Morrigan. They are always refered to as 3.
And my favorite vampire 😍
@@CountofBleck Babd, Macha, and Nemain. The triple goddess... holder of secrets, holder of grudges.
@@dallanledford6364 she's a succubus, not a vampire.
Even now, on the quietest of nights, Acteon's final words echo through the earth:
"worth it".
So Artemis brutally murdered a guy because he accidentally peeped on her?
*Sighs and crosses Artemis off the "Morally good gods" list.*
Out of curiosity, are there any Greek gods left on that list of yours? 😂
@@hannahrobbins1017 uhhh, nope basically no one, unless we count Percy Jackson
@@archivist_13What about Hestia?
I love how at 3:04 Athena's statue is subtly jacked. Delts and Biceps, sun's out gun's out.
There's apparently a similar myth where a young boy accidentally sees Artemis naked (you should really find a more secluded spot to bath, Artemis) but the twist is, Artemis feels sorry for the boy and says "Well if you were a girl and part of my hunters, it would be fine (you had no problem letting hyppolytus and Orion into your hunters but okay) and, not wanting the die, the young boy becomes a young girl and joins the hunters.
Source?
I’ve never heard of that myth in my life.
Half-baked. Here's the actual and extremely short legend you're talking about: "The Cretan, Siproites, had also been turned into a woman for having seen Artemis bathing when out hunting." Not a boy, not a huntress.
I think the real moral of the story is, "Always put up the curtain when you take a bath."