Though both the original Shogun miniseries and the remake have their good points, I personally prefer the original Shogun from the 1980s over the 2024 remake.
Yoko Shimada has so much grace, presence, a radiating beauty. Notice how in the 80's version Anjin is immediately struck by her beauty, not so much in the modern one
Hai, Rodline-San. Blackthorne 1980 is completely struck by Mariko 1980 (Yoko Shimada)'s beauty immediately, and Richard Chamberlain did a fantastic job showing it. Agreed: Blackthorn 2024's response to Mariko 2024 was: "Ma'am, you should know I'm not Catholic." Boy, if that doesn't convey attraction, I don't know what does. Haha! Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel I also think on seeing Mariko, Blackthorn realized this culture was indeed civilized and was so pleased to see beauty existed. It gave him hope. There were many layers to Blackthorn's reaction which exhibits the depth of the understanding of the Japanese culture vs. the western culture by Clavelle. Which is why his story is so far superior to the 2024 version cobbling together actions and reactions that make no sense to either culture.
@@warrennicholsony.fernando4513 Yeah, but the lustful look was obvious and could insult the Shogun. I would try to look away :D. But what also is interesting is what men's hairstyle was back then. Short or hippie?
They can't really be measured on the same scale. The current version downplays her entrance to the point of outright diminishing its importance. The camera work is either grossly incompetent (let's say that's unlikely), or it's a kind of postmodernist thumbing of the nose at convention, as your view of her is blocked by a column at the moment you are most intently looking at her.
@@AndSendMe No. I think they are just using the clumsy camerawork to hide Sawai's lack of training and demeanor, the way most current productions use quick cut editing to make dancing or fighting look good. She looks like what she is - a 21st century girl cosplaying a traditional lady.
I first saw the 1980 version on German television in 1984. I was 13 years old and I immediately fell in love with Yoko Shimada. Her beauty and elegance captivated me. So I’m a little bit prejudiced. But I wonder why there’s a lack of light and color in so many modern shows? They almost don’t show sunshine anymore. Everything looks dirty and depressing. The costumes are so dark. Even in that era they know how to dye silk in Japan.
Hai, Ab_gaensedistel4396-San. I agree with everything you have said. It is surprising, especially when silk dying was commonly done in Japan in the Sengoku Period. Excellent Comments. Arigatou Gozaimashita. 👍
@@jistorobo Thank you for your answer. In my humble opinion using natural light only was done better in the film "Barry Lyndon" by Stanley Kubrick from 1975. There some scenes were shot with candlelight only by using special lenses and film. Modern shows are often to dark. Doesn´t modern technique could do better?
"As long as we can love each other, and remember the feeling of love we had, we can die without ever really going away. All the love you created is still there. All the memories are still there. You live on -- in the hearts of everyone you have touched and nurtured while you were here." ~ Morris Schwartz “What we have once enjoyed we can never lose. All that we love deeply becomes a part of us.” ~ Helen Keller “Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” ~ Marie Curie "Cycles of life and death can be likened to the alternating periods of sleep and wakefulness. Just as sleep prepares us for the next day’s activity, death can be seen as a state in which we rest and replenish ourselves for new life. In this light, death should be acknowledged, along with life, as a blessing to be appreciated." ~ Daisaku Ikeda "Don't be afraid. Change is such a beautiful thing", said the Butterfly." ~ Sabrina Newby “What is lovely never dies, but passes into another loveliness.” ~ Thomas Bailey Aldrich "Quality of soul... it is our earthly floor, and heaven's door." ~ Paul Jung "The melody that the loved one played upon the piano of your life will never be played quite that way again, but we must not close the keyboard and allow the instrument to gather dust. We must seek out other artists of the spirit, new friends who gradually will help us to find the road to life again, who will walk the road with us." ~ Joshua Loth Liebman "The pain passes, but the beauty remains." ~ Henri Matisse
This, again, is the difference between an American production and a Japanese one. In the original, Anjin-san is the handsome, charismatic, swashbuckling type. In the new Japanese one, he’s a bumbling gaijin. Mariko is also an idealized version of an early 1600’s Japanese lady, elegant and flawlessly beautiful. In the new one she’s a wounded soul enduring the unendurable dishonors of her family. I appreciate the Japanese one, but Yoko Shimada will always be my Mariko!
I agree except this Mariko is not enduring. She is whining and crying and a complete mess. How strong the Mariko of 1980s version to have gone through all that and still the flawless Lady with the entire country 's respect. She endured.
Both Mariko and Toranaga from the 1980 version portrayed characters that showed a different face to the public than showing all of their hidden cunning and planning, like they are described in the novel. With several layers to their personalities. The new versions, they often wear on their face what they are thinking or feeling.
The 2024 version is an American production and was not even shot in Japan. The new one definitely reflects America's continuing dive into the sewer of naturalism in its choices.
@@ALwinDigital Hah, I got savaged in another comment section for daring to use the word "layers" with regard to what was lacking in Mariko's performance.
@@AndSendMe And current social trends for weak Men and strong women, or at least what it thinks it is. They castrated Blackthorn and injected Mariko and Fugiko with steroids. Its obscene. When can we let men be men and women be women?
Anna Sawai (Mariko 2024) has Japanese parents, but was born in New Zealand. She moved back to Japan with her family at age 11. To my mind she does not exhibit a ‘normal’ female Japanese accent. I suspect it is easier for most Americans to follow her English, which works well for the movies. I had Japanese a friend who worked at their Embassy in DC. She spoke and taught excellent American English, but her Japanese accent was much closer to that of Yoko Shimada (Mariko 1980). Both actresses gave exceptional performances. But I far prefer hearing the female Japanese accent I am accustomed to, in that role.
Shogun 2024 is so different because it attempts to film many more scenes out in the field and the dimmer lighting delivers a darker more threatening backdrop. Episode 6 of the 2024 version finally delivered the kind of tension and drama this style was hoping to achieve. But for anyone like me, brought up on the 1980 version it is hard to think of Mariko and Toranaga as anyone other than the luminous Shimada or the brooding Mifune.
Hai, MikeFriend-San. I agree with you. Episode 6 finally gave something that I did enjoy. The scenes with Kiku were interesting. She is more seductive in Shogun 2024 than in Shogun 1980. For Shogun 2024, I have had to put aside my wonderful memories of Shogun 1980, and imagine they are new characters. Only then was I able to see that Shogun 2024 is a War-Military-Politics Action Drama, whereas, Shogun 1980 displayed the lighter, more cultural aspects of Japan: like The Sailors Dance, peaceful Anjiro scenes, Bathing "Ofuro" scenes, etc. I agree that it is hard to think of Mariko and Toranaga as anyone other than, as you eloquently stated, "luminous" Shimada or the brooding Mifune. Excellent Comments. Arigatogozaimashita.
The original was shot in Japan, and the newer was shot in British Columbia. COVID prevented it from being filmed in Japan. It doesn't look like Japan. That prolonged level of wetness and dampness doesn't happen in Japan. The area where it was shot in BC is an actual rainforest.
I respectfully don't agree with the darker scenery delivering tension and drama. The real drama is not what is seen but what is felt. If we would understand tension and drama only based on the scenery and color and would childishly say that now it is ominous because the clouds are low and dark and now we should feel high because the sun is shining, we would never be able to appreciate an exquisite Noh drama, accentuated by its dramatic lean music as the '80s series do perfectly, relying not on cheap props to deliver the tension between the characters but on real acting.
It will be a long time before Shimada Yoko is surpassed in this role. Toda Mariko was an incredible character, more courageous than all the samurai around her combined. Yoko-san rest in peace.
Yoko Shimada was born in Japan in the 50s. She was raised in what would have been "classical" Japan. Meaning the customs were more similar to pre-WW2 culture than post 2000 culture. Anna Sawai was raised in post 2000 Japanese culture which is a manga and internet culture. Sawai has no hope in hell of pulling off the class and elegance that Shimada had from her upbringing.
This parallel presentation is excellent, it shows the differences, a good way to learn cinematography. In both versions, Toranaga are outstanding actors.
The new Mariko seems rather rude and condescending when it comes to Blackthorne. While in the original, she didn't care too much for him, thinking that he was still a barbarian, she was at least polite and made an effort to be pleasant, until she warmed up to him and fell for him. It was made less obvious in the 1980 show and in the book, it showed she didn't think too highly of him, but made an effort to be polite. But the new one is more impolite, which is not only out of character, but rather inconsistent with how the Japanese were supposed to be portrayed. That the folks tried to show good manners and apologize when needed, whether they meant it or not.
Hai, Yabuturtle-San. Very Excellent and Wonderful Comments: I even made a note to make a Shogun Showdown with how Mariko treats Blackthorne in both. As you accurately stated, Mariko 1980 and in the novel, made an effort to be polite to Blackthorne, but in Shogun 2024, she seems to loathe Blackthorn, at every turn. It is as if she wished she were anywhere else, but with him. So completely different. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Yes, that is what the new version did not get but viewers who did not read the novel do not understand this aspect. In fact, being polite is the facade. In the new version, we see the main characters always brooding without any other emotion. Masking one's true feelings and intentions doesn't mean one is always brooding of poker-faced LOL. One can show a range of emotions, fake and genuine, while still not showing the real deep-seated feeling or intention towards another.
Several commenters on other channels that talk about Shogun, mainly reviews or discussions about 2024 version, say they have never read the novel or plan to read it, never watched the 1980 version... My response: you can't miss/appreciate something you never had. Those like me who have read the novel several times, I have a copy on kindle and re-read it often, and have copies of the 1980 version: 1. We know the historical inaccuracies in the novel/story, but we don't care because Shogun is a fictional story that takes place in what can be considered an alternate history of Japan. It's not meant to be a historical or biographical story about real events or figures. 2. We are disappointed with some of the key omissions in the current version, some of the changes that don't quite fit with the overall story, and we do appreciate some of the additions that were omitted from the 1980 version due to time, budget and visual medium constraints. Without the attempted seppuku scene, the character of Blackthorne is not re-born in this version, there is no evolution for him as a character, and I don't see him and Mariko developing anything beyond friendship. With the alteration to the conversation topic about "unless you win" and without the hornpipe dance scene, I don't see why Toranaga would keep protecting Blackthorne. He would likely just get everything from Blackthorne's head and then be done with him. What's the point of highlighting something insignificant or minor like a natto dish? I like that they showed the killing of Lord Sugiyama, which was only mentioned in the novel that it happened. But I dislike them trying to make Ochiba into a villain (several commenters are comparing her to Cersi). Ochiba is not a villain, yes she is scheming and manipulating, but she is a mother trying to protect her son's inheritance. Ishido isn't a true villain either. The story of Shogun doesn't have any true villains, just characters with their own individual interests and goals.
Hai, ALWinDigital-San. Truly Excellent And Well Thought Out Comments. I absolutely agree with: #1 Hai! = "We know the historical inaccuracies in the novel/story, but we don't care because Shogun is a fictional story that takes place in what can be considered an alternate history of Japan. It's not meant to be a historical or biographical story about real events or figures." #2 - Precisely. Seppuku Scene Missing - Hai, exactly. There were pivotal moments of growth in Shogun 1980, as a sub-plot story. Also, the love affair of Mariko and Blackthorne was felt in Shogun 1980, whereas, you are correct, they are seen in Shogun 2024 as little more than friends. Missing Hornpipe and "Unless You Win" - Hahahahahahaha! Exactly, Toranaga should just get Blackthorn's valuable information, and execute him. There really is no friendship, so far, in 6 episodes of Shogun 2024. Natto Dish Comment = Hahahahahahahha! I don't know what the point of it was, but I felt like I was doing research for an exhausting project, when I saw that scene. Sugiyama Death Scene - Hai, there have been some interesting, included scenes in Shogun 2024, that were in the novel, and not in Shogun 1980. And, there are some back storylines, that were added that were not in the novel, like Fujiko's husband's Seppuku, and their child. Lady Ochiba - Hai, I agree, and I see her the same way. It seems they have made her into a slithery, scheming woman, with a strange sound to her voice when she is trying to manipulate, but that does not ring true to the character in the novel, of which, there was very little of her in Shogun 1980. Ishido - Hai, he wasn't the villain, but each, including The Jesuits, were trying to plot for power in control, in their respective realms, which is understandable. Wonderful comments, as usual. Domo for the great laughs with this. Excellent commentary as well. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel in the novel Fujiko’s husband didn’t commit seppuku. He was put to death on Toranaga’s orders. The scene in the novel involves Ishido making some insulting comments in front of Toranaga and his men trying to provoke them into attacking or killing him, to give his own men an excuse to retaliate and eliminate Toranaga. Toranaga understood this, but Usagi was over zealous in trying to protect Toranaga’s honor and drew his sword. The entire alteration to Usagi speaking out and promising to commit seppuku and kill his own son doesn’t make sense in the 2024 version.
You are so right; those other channels are just ridiculous. Not having read the book and not having watched the original Series is crazy. It is interesting to watch and see how the two Series could evolve from the same book. If read the book many times, an all-time favorite, same with the 1980 Series. It is not even close: 1980 all the way. Love the original Mariko; you can see why the original Anjin-San fell for her! The current version…. NOT!
@@williamsuper213 The current Blackthorne is not showing the wide range of knowledge and experience he shows in the novel, the current Mariko is just...
1980 version has a lot more nuances. 80's Blackthorne's stare at Mariko appears he's smitten. 80's Mariko introduction and entrance is more expanded...
Hiroyuki Sanada (Toranaga), Moeka Hoshi (Fujiko) and Tadanobu Asano (Yabu) all worked for me. The rest of the 2024 cast cannot touch 1980. Anna Sawai was just not right for the part and I'm shocked that she is getting critical acclaim. Richard Chamberlain might not be English, but he very easily outshines Cosmo Jarvis
I can't stand the new Blackthorne. The rest I can accept and the new Fuji did better than the original version Fuji, in my opinion. Maybe it is because she has more scenes, I don't know.
1980 version of Shogun WINS with an all-star cast! No contest. Lady Mariko in the 80s series is played by an indigenous Japanese... listen to that accent! ❤ oh my.You can't fake it.... In the remake, Mariko has a less than convincing native Japanese accent. You can't really speak like an indigenous native unless you are born a native. On that note, Lady Mariko of the old series is as Japanese as it gets with all the cultural essence and etiquette of the language spoken by a female❤🎉
Highly Excellent Comments! I agree with everything you have eloquently said: Lady Mariko of the old series is as Japanese as it gets with all the cultural essence and etiquette. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Shimada shows refinement in movement. Sawai seems stiff and uncomfortable. Shimada shows subtlety and grace in her expressions. Sawai looks flat. Sawai mimics while Shimada embodies.
There is really no need to brood for long on this choice: Shimada's Toda Mariko is like delicate silver moonray, and you can not but love her from the first moment you set eyes on her, as Blackthorne obviously does, clearly acted by Chamberlain. There is no mistaking the connection between those two, and the penetrating gaze of Blackthorne in the last moment, discerning the hidden anguish in Mariko. This goes beyond Shimada being more beautiful and delicate and feminine than Sawai, because that is obvious. What is more expressive though, is how Shimada, like Mariko in the novel, is able to represent completely and entirely the Eightfold Fence, hiding her anguish and horror and hard life and her coveting to death under the deep outer layers of the japanese high-class noble lady, demure, sweet, delicate and submitted (I know I said delicate 3 times - what can I say - I love her). This outward look and behaviour makes it so much much more heartfelt and intense the ruthless Mariko who gives everything against her family enemies, to her lord Toranaga, and lastly, to her great love Blackthorne. And this play with these extreme behaviours is what makes the '80 series such a marvelous work of art (notwithstanding its limitations). And let us analyse Blackthorne as well. Chamberlain, is clearly a secure man, the man who could pilot a fleet around the world and preserve his authority, sanity, and strength to the end. He knows he needs to be decisive and deadly. He knows he needs to be strong and to the point. His speech is clear, his words are chosen well, he aims everything to his advantage (and his life) and he strives to achieve those goals. Jarvis... oh Kami! halting speech, eyes like a lost sheep, bodystance like Hodor (game of thrones halfwit), as subtle as a handful of mud, demonstrating as much ability, strength, objectivity and dedication as a dry burdock clinging to a cow's tail. Level of astonishment by Mariko entering - nonexisting. Potential to amuse, astonish, intrigue both Mariko and Toranaga - zero.
I totally agree with your observation & statement. I wanted to like the 2024 Mariko although I can't say that I really did very much. Maybe I am prejudiced by the fact that I grew up with Yoko Shimada's interpretation of the character, but Anna Sawai's interpretation of Mariko looks like she is extremely pissed to even be having to deal with any of these ppl. As far as the relationship between her & Blackthorne, she didn't look to me like she had much of any real depth of feeling for him in the same manner that Yoko Shimada did. You could feel a reasonable facsimile of affection between Chamberlain & Shimada (which was amazing considering that Chamberlain later came out as gay, but he is/was an actor) that just doesn't seem to be there with Cosmo Jarvis & Anna Sawai.
The 80s version is the one I like the best and one of the reasons is because I really became close with all the different characters and understood thier roles in the story. The new one everybody is a complete asshole, no likability whatsoever. The dark stormy look that is in everything also compounds the doom and gloom attitude of the whole story. The 80s version is bright and extremely character rich.
Hai, MarkBlackwell-San. Hahahaha! Excellent Comments, and Domo for the good laugh. I agree with you 150%. We all became close with ALL of the different characters and understood their roles in the story. The Very Important Like-Ability Factor is far less in Shogun 2024, and sometimes I wonder if they made it that way on purpose. Hai, The 'dark stormy look' is so dreadful, and it is exacerbated by almost every scene is rain. Just checked Weather.com for Tokyo, and it has an equal mix of rain and sun for this Sakura Season time of year there. However, watching Shogun 2024, one would think it rains there all the time, and it was filmed in Canada, which bothers me in almost every scene that I see Canadian Redwood Trees. They only have Dawn Redwoods in Japan, and it is only located in the northwestern part of The Shiga Prefecture. Shogun 1980 is definitely bright and colorful, with extremely good characters and character development. Arigatogozaimashita. 👍🏆
Let us not forget, in this 2024 version, there is ONE shining star... I refer to the very lovely and very cute Moeka Hoshi, starring as Fujiko... This lady is simply wonderful in this version.... Those eyes... WOW !
Konichiwa, Shogun Channel-San. In the 1980 Shogun, we, as the spectators, understand that Blackthorn, having watched Mariko's entrance walk, immediately fell in love with her, one might say at first sight, while in the 2024 Shogun version there is no manifestation of feelings at all! Mariko comes up from behind, Blackthorn doesn’t have time to look at her, and then they start to talk business. There's no time to fall in love! Another confirmation that the 1980 series was filmed by a master, and the acting is, for lack of a better word, magnificent! Shogun 1980 wins. Shogun 2024: fatality
Highly Excellent Comments, Kremlin3000-San. I completely agree with everything you have said. There is no time for love in Shogun 2024: it appears to be all war. Personally, I miss the love and romance of Mariko and Blackthorne. Also, I miss the Hornpipe Dance that Blackthorne and Toranaga did, miss Toranaga fishing with Yaemon in Osaka Castle Lake. I agree: Shogun 1980 Series was filmed by a master, and the acting was magnificent. Domo for your great comments. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Chamberlin and Mifune were more accomplished actors the gap more advanced in Chamberlains case.Their had to be innate strength in the Anjin to survive and impress Toranage and you get that with Chamberlin.
1980's version better and I enjoyed their acting more. Though Hiroyuki Sanada is an excellent actor. Mariko in this newer version seems more abrupt and rude to JB. Sanada does justice to Toronaga's part.
1980 without doubt. 2024 Mariko has a girl boss vibe that wouldn't be tolerated in this hyper-patriarchal culture especially given her backstory. 1980 Mariko showed the proper degree of deference and demureness plus she walked correctly almost like gliding--this is Toranaga's court after all. So graceful. The 2024 Blackthorn is too bumbling and awkward. Blackthorn is supposed to be an adventurer and skilled navigator who finds his way into the highest echelon of feudal Japanese society. 1980 Blackthorn did a good job capturing this larger-than-life character. Also, the 2024 Mariko bow is what I'd expect from an equal to Toranaga--Ishido maybe but not Mariko. That's really disrespectful for her to do and wouldn't have been tolerated. The 1980 Mariko bowed properly. The high quality of the 1980 version I attribute to the author, James Clavell, acting as executive producer.
Hai, Plenarchist-San. Very Excellent Comments and Observations. I agree with everything you have said. Wonderful comments on bowing: "really disrespectul" & "1980 Mariko bowed properly" - Great Observations. Hai, girl boss vibe would not be tolerated. Domo for the excellent comments. Arigatou Gozaimashita. 👍🏆
Yes, I noticed the girl boss characterization which is part of today's characterization of women. Can't a woman be feminine and still be strong like the 80s Mariko? I was astounded to see that Mariko fought Ishido's guards alone and also the other battle scenes with her fighting other soldiers. New Blackthorne was a bumbling fool which a navigator should not be and so unlike the novel's Blackthorne and the real person the character was based on. Of all the characters of the new version, Blackthorne is the one I disliked so much. He is not even needed in the story because the point of view was changed. It is like the usual portrayal of white men as fools (and I am Asian) so as to put "white" men down while propping up the Japanese as superior which is not needed because Blackthorne changed his mind about Japanese culture and regarded the Japanese as civilized people and even superior in some aspects like cleanliness and hygiene.
I couldn't agree more. Your analysis is spot on. The modern world is blind to quality filmmaking. I fear we are doomed to live forever in a world of inferior filmmaking compared to our past achievements.
In the left corner, you have elegance and class. In the right corner, you have a sneering girlboss.... right.... Sidenote : Massive props to Damien Thomas who played Martin Alvito in the original version. He was fantastic in the role.
Mifune is Toranaga, Shimada is Mariko. Had you not seen the original, you would think that this is definitive. As much as I love Sanada, it's not close. The elegance of the original is missing, especially in the character Mariko. The contrast between her elegance and deceptiveness is marvelous. Makeup and grandiosity do not make up for substance. Shimada IS Mariko. The other lady plays her. We seem to think that Japanese characters must always be scowling. Mariko is devious, but charming. This version misses that completely.
Hai, Alwin-Digital-San. But however, perhaps they are trying to convey the inner workings of Mariko with Anna Sawai. I do love the performance of Yoko Shimada in this comparison much more. My biggest complaints are still: Blue-Tint Filter and Japan Location Filming, oh, and more Japanese Shamisen and Bamboo Flutes, with a scene or two of the peaceful aspects of the village. I understand they are trying to convey a dark time, but there were beautiful times as well. Why couldn't they have filmed it in Japan please? Arigatogozaimashita.
It also helped that she has a very real accent. Yoko Shimada's English was practically nonexistent and she basically learned the language as the series was shot, through voice coaches, etc.
What a cheap, artificial and wrong decision to remake such a wonderful film after 40 years. Mifune is a 24 carat authoritative actor whereas Chamberlain acts like a noble aristocrat. Yoko Shimada (re)presents the asiatic classical elegance, highly elaborated court manners, an intelligence sharp as a samurai sword, and pure emotion. The film was really a sensation during the communist dictatorship in Albania, an eye-opener to ancient Japanese culture.
The new Mariko doesn't seems to like Blackthorn, there is no chemistry between them and the actress doesn't know how tho show emotions other than sadness
The 80’s version of closer to the live story that drives the plot. The 2024 is much more about the fight for Shogun and historical accuracy. As a lover of the book I prefer the 80’s with all its flaws and commercial breaks. But that’s just me,
Yes Mariko was NEVER sullen, even when facing the end there was a spark of joy in her strong eyes, yes she had the shame of her family but it was Fujiko that at least started as sullen - honestly she seems more like Fujiko always wanting death... Mariko didn't want to die, especially found strength and love from Ajin san and just did not fear death. Life & death are the same thing. I actually like this version of Fujiko as we get to see a lot more of her story and get to see the burgeoning friendship between Anjin San & Fujiko. She cared for him, was extremely protective of and provided for him what would be a great life after her death.
I don't know why Blackthorn is even in the 2024 film. He doesn't seem to serve any purpose. And he certainly isn't there to provide a focal point for the audience being introduced to Samurai Japan because the 2024 version seems to assume that the audience already knows what it needs to know about Samurai Japan and the entire story of "Shogun."
Hai, Cryptonymicus-San! Very Excellent Comments! I agree 100%: What purpose is Blackthorn serving in Shogun 2024? It is certainly not the same purpose in Shogun 1980, or in the novel. They could have killed off Cosmo Jarvis in Episode 3 and still continued their power struggle storyline. Domo for commenting this. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Love the comparisons you are doing here. Have read the book twice and have watch the 1980 miniseries at least 20 times. There are so many differences, in both, however in some cases the 2024 (have watched the first three episodes) gets close to the book in some scenes and leaves off others. As they say the jury is still out.
Hai, FJuran1-San. You are 100% on everything you stated. I have come to realize that Shogun 2024 is a different perspective and telling of The Shogun novel. They do focus on other scenes that were in the novel, but perhaps too risque, at the time, in 1980. I think they both have their merit, and I will try to be more fair in the future Shogun Showdowns to both, because they focus on different aspects of Shogun. Excellent Comments. Arigatogozaimashita.
I'm partial to 1980 Mariko. I think the 2024 Mariko was heavily influenced by how female characters are written today and it feels slightly out of place in the era the story is set IMHO. Also, by ep 6 you are seeing that Mariko is becoming a central figure in the main storyline as well as Lady Ochiba. Going slightly off topic here (my apologies) and correct me if I'm wrong but Lady Ochiba wasn't the daughter of Goroda (the historical Oda Nobunaga) in the novel or 1980 show right? And I also don't remember (as it's been a long time since I read the book or re-watched the 1980 ed) Ochiba being the central nemesis to Toranaga as she clearly is becoming in the 2024 ed. I don't remember Ochiba being that central a figure in the originals.
Hai, ColtraneCave-San. I agree with you: Mariko 2024 is based on female characters today, rather than, female characters in the fictional novel, Shogun, or in Shogun 1980, and it does feel like a Rewriting of History, rather than being true to the novel, or Sengoku Period History. Hai, Ep. 6 has a conniving, scheming Lady Ochiba, and I do not remember her in the novel, being the daughter of Goroda. I would have to go and check, as I've marked many spots in the novel. I would have to recheck her role in the novel, but in Shogun 1980, there is only a 30 second scene with Lady Ochiba and Lord Ishido, and it is a silent scene. Lord Ishido was the chief nemesis in Shogun 1980, with meddling from The Jesuits. I believe you are correct, but I would have to go re-check the novel. Excellent observations and comments! Arigatogozaimashita. 👍
@@colingoldie9173 When I watch historical dramas, the thrill is in being a fly on the wall of major historical events, and that requires suspension of disbelief. In 2024, a "historical" drama requires female characters to rise above their prescribed gender roles and be "kick ass", which immediately ruins the suspension of disbelief. I know that Clavell's novel is a work of historical fiction as he took liberties with the historical record, but when I read his book or when I re-watch the 1980 show I can't help but feel like I am back there in 1600 AD Japan. I don't get that vibe from the 2024 ed.
Did anyone read the book? The 1980 version was a true faithful adaptation of the book. The new version was fine but other than the names, did not follow the book at all. Why? The changes did not make it better. Be well, stay safe.
Hai, RobertPatenaude-San. Hai, read the novel. I agree 100%. The changes to Shogun 2024 did not make it better. Excellent Comments. Arigato Gozaimashita. 👍🏆
Yoko Shimada hands down. She is the classic Japanese beauty of Kyoto and Nara. Exemplifying the grace and refinement of high status Japanese women. The new one is a Shinjuku or Harajuku "garl/gyaru." I'm half expecting her to show up with pink hair, camel lashes, fake nails, etc with their rough edgy language. Her features are also more generic east or South East Asian than the classic Japanese ideal.
@@theshogunchannel Dou itashimasite. Another thing I dislike is the lighting. Japan is not northern Europe; it is not constantly overcast and foggy between Kyoto/Kansai and Edo/Kanto. Plenty of beautiful sunny days. Heck, many if not most days you can see Mt. Fuji from Tokyo/Yokohama from the right spot. The cinematographer obviously watched too much "Vikings." lol Some atmospheric scenes are okay, like the excellent forest battle scene in The Last Samurai, but not this incessant gloom. Enough already!! Japanese costumes and fabrics are absolutely gorgeous but you can barely see the colors and details in the constant fog. Mottainai. lol
After tonight's Finale, 100% the Only thing and I mean the ONLY thing that the new Shogun is Better at was the Wardrobe, the Story was all mixed up and changed but was still fun to watch. But the Original Mini Series was just so much better in Every Way......
1980 had all the beauty as well as the brutality. I understood the politics and the chess game the Lords were playing. 2024 is confusing and Blackthorn is awkward and bumbling. Blackthorn as you remember was a Lord in England. That is very high status. 1980 Blackthorn carried himself gracefully, skillfully and with authority. 2024 Blackthorn screams like a fool. His anger is as a child. Not a Noble Lord. He is clumsy and acts much lower class than his station. Although enjoying the 2024 show, it is not the same story. Too many modern references and poor attempts at humor. The loss of the close friendship and loyalty of Blackthorn and Torunaga is a huge hole. 1980 Shogun far superior to this woke attempt at showing what a strong woman looks like. The Mariko of 1980 is a much stronger woman than the 2024 foolish petulant child feeling so victimized. If 2024 Mariko tried to say the word Karma, it would stick in her throat as she hasn't got the foggiest idea what it means. I want to see grown up movies and TV again. Not this victim culture of spoiled Brats that can't fathom what life really is let alone cope like a grown up.
Hai, Kelly-San. Excellent Comments: Blackthorne was a Lord in England: You are correct! He did carry himself gracefully. For some reason, they have made, in Shogun 2024, to be more bumbling and inept. Perhaps it is part of a Social Engineering Construct, but you are 100% correct in your analysis and breakdown. I agree: I can only watch Shogun 2024 if I think of it as an entirely different story. I agree with all of your comments: A role reversal has also taken place: Stronger women Vs. Weaker men: Of course, I believe and prefer the opposite. Wonderful comments again! Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel Did you see the way he carried his swords back to his house one in each hand like each one weighed a ton? He hates Japan. He has not embraced the culture, he hates it. Omi-san was jealous of Anjin-san being with Kiku-san. That was out of place. Omi is still the slimy little weasel. I don't find it funny at all that Lord Yabu keeps redoing his will. He is defeated before he even fights. The other Yabu believed he was so clever and he would out live everyone. HIS plotting and scheming got him killed. In the 1980 version, Omi-san's honor and loyalty won him Anjin-san's respect. It's a completely different story than the Shogun novel or the 1980 mini series. I didn't like this episode at all. I wouldn't watch anymore if I never knew anything about Shogun because I don't appreciate woke culture at all. Their idea of what men and women are is sad and pathetic. In 1600s Japan, this Mariko would have never lived. Toranaga-sama is right! "What is this arguing?!" This is all just sad and I believe as woke culture continues to decline, so will this series. It will be seen at what it is. A sad commentary of the movie makers of the sad and pathetic transgender ideology consigned to the ash heap of fake history. Let's see what the last few episodes do. Redeem itself or we continue to descend into madness.
Hai Kelly-San. Very Highly Excellent Comments! I absolutely love your analysis and comments. I agree with everything you have eloquently stated. Hai, Omi-San seemed so much stronger, internally, in Shogun 1980, and Frankie Sakai as Yabu, and in the novel, did believe that he was so clever, that he was going to live longer than the rest. I agree: It is a completely different storyline than Shogun 1980 or the novel. I have had to watch it, only as a separate series altogether. In Shogun 1980, the men are strong, and the women graceful and gentle, but it is a gender reversal in Shogun 2024, with strong women and weak men. Excellent statement: "A sad commentary of the movie makers of the sad and pathetic transgender ideology consigned to the as heap of fake history." Wow! So wonderfully stated, Kelly-San. Domo Arigatogozaimashtia. @@KellysAdventures305 👍🏆🎓
@@theshogunchannel Thank you for your kind words. It's how I feel. Perhaps you can see how much I loved the 1980 Shogun. I was so looking forward to this take but I am so bitterly disappointed. Thank God for your channel. I don't feel like I'm crazy being too hard on it. It's awful.
Blackthorne wasn't actually a lord in the novel. In the 1980 series he says something like "Tell him I'm a lord in my country and I piss on him" to Omi in anger. But Blackthorne wasn't actually a lord. He did appear to have come from a better off family than most, and was well educated. He hoped that by being able to establish trade with Japan that he would become a member of the Peerage upon his return to England.
1980's version hands down. The coloring is brighter & more colorful. Etiquette & protocols were extremely important amongst aristocracy, but Especially royalty.
If I remember correctly, The Mariko 1980 version, Yoko Shimada did not speak English fluently. She learned to speak English through a Dialect coach. When I watched the 1980 version of Shogun, I just assumed that she was fluent in English, because she does such a great job. Her acting is amazing to watch.
I read the novel and watched it on TV decades ago but used a free website to rewatch it. You may need a VPN to go to the website if you live in countries with strict copyright laws.
After seeing most of the 2024 episodes, the 1980 miniseries is far better. Better performances, more interesting characters. I like the new Mariko though but she remains very subdued. It was clear, however, that the original Mariko liked Blackthorne while the new one is disgusted by him. There's no attraction between Cosmo and Anna. That makes the story much less interesting. It seems more a remake of Last Samurai than Shogun.
If you read the novel, the new Mariko is so unlike the novel's Mariko. Plus, her behavior would have never been accepted in feudal Japan. Being a girl boss with a brooding demeanor is not suitable in the period, but is common nowadays.
"As long as we can love each other, and remember the feeling of love we had, we can die without ever really going away. All the love you created is still there. All the memories are still there. You live on -- in the hearts of everyone you have touched and nurtured while you were here." ~ Morris Schwartz “What we have once enjoyed we can never lose. All that we love deeply becomes a part of us.” ~ Helen Keller “Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” ~ Marie Curie "Cycles of life and death can be likened to the alternating periods of sleep and wakefulness. Just as sleep prepares us for the next day’s activity, death can be seen as a state in which we rest and replenish ourselves for new life. In this light, death should be acknowledged, along with life, as a blessing to be appreciated." ~ Daisaku Ikeda "Don't be afraid. Change is such a beautiful thing", said the Butterfly." ~ Sabrina Newby “What is lovely never dies, but passes into another loveliness.” ~ Thomas Bailey Aldrich "Quality of soul... it is our earthly floor, and heaven's door." ~ Paul Jung "The melody that the loved one played upon the piano of your life will never be played quite that way again, but we must not close the keyboard and allow the instrument to gather dust. We must seek out other artists of the spirit, new friends who gradually will help us to find the road to life again, who will walk the road with us." ~ Joshua Loth Liebman "The pain passes, but the beauty remains." ~ Henri Matisse
Ah those lovely dimples…. Also, I am not sure if it is just me but the new Blackthorne looks and sounds too wimpy. For me, he lacks the presence compared to Richard Chamberlain
I like the comparisons you are giving. Hope you do the pheasant bird scene and death of the gardener. In the 2024 Shogun seemed like Blackthorn wasn’t to bothered
I'm more curious how or if they will even include the scene where Blackthorne gives a flower to Lady Ochiba. I don't really see this version of Blackthorne being able to pull off the charm.
Hai, AlwinDigital-San. I am curious about that too. I do understand more now about what Shogun 2024 is about, which is a different perspective on the same novel. Highly Excellent comments, as usual. Arigatogozaimashita.
The new show is good, but there is a bit too much hype about it up in the air. Especially in comparison to the old show and the character of Blackthorne has become more and more just a sidenote in the new one. And imo the new actor cannot hold a candle to Chamberlains performance. And Anna Sawai is doing a good job as Mariko, but she has a totally different aura than the orig. Actress Yoko Shimada, who so wonderfully portraid the chracter of Mariko. Yoko Shimada had more grace and kindness and actually felt more japanese, at least for me. Conclusion: So far, I like the new show, but I still like the original more.
The fact i could name the cast of 1980 show all these years on ... not so much this one . I loved that show . I bought the video .. (I fell in love with mariko😂❤) Its a great story ..this new version though was ruined by cosmo jarvis , the guy just cannot act ( checkout his other stuff ...just as bad ) . YABUSHIGE was fantastic in 2024 version though... ❤🎉😊
Really? I don't even know of him. Yes, I hate his portrayal of Blackthorne. And he doesn't have the good looks of Richard Chamberlain. Had he had good looks and charisma, even though he played Blackthorne as a fool, then at least, I have something to look at. And his voice. I can't stand his voice.
I prefer the original Mariko as played by Yoko Shimada. She had an almost ethereal grace and beauty that was not matched by the newer version. As much as I prefer the production values of the new series, I think the 1980 version is the superior telling of the novel as far too many cuts and liberties were taken by the showrunners of the new series.
LoL, I was going to do a similar video after watching both versions back to back. However, no reason to reinvent the wheel. Good job. I like both versions, but some parts of one better than how it is done in the other. Both Mariko have some good moments, as do the concubine scenes and fights. Love the cannon use in the second version. Noting some variation in the timelines when certain events happen, but as long as they do show them, someone who hasn't seen the other one won't know it was done differently. I feel the concubine has a stronger role in the new version, but that can also be the way they filmed the woman. In the first episode she is more of a background character, but she speaks more in the new version. She points the pistol at the escort in both versions, but it is more seriously shown in the 2nd version. Then again more episodes allows more latitude in filming. Both versions are very well done IMO. I hope I live long enough to see a 3rd version in 30 years or so. 🙂
I tend to compare a film to the source material. I know one cannot be as faithful to the novel because of the difference in medium but 80s Shogun was able to capture the essence of the novel and also was more faithful to it given that James Clavell was part of the writing process. I can accept the new characters, even the girl boss depiction of Mariko since we live in a different era of filmmaking but I can't accept the new Blackthorne. He was not a bumbling fool and even without the novel, a navigator of that period wouldn't act like a low class Englishman. Blackthorne held a senior rank and officers of that period were not peasants or come from the urban poor. They were highly educated but I guess white men today need to be portrayed as bumbling fools and women girl boss as if there is no strength in being feminine with a hidden will made or steel.
The camera work and scene setup in the original one are vastly superior. The modern one makes frustratingly bad choices in that regard, this is of course my opinion only.
Yoko Shimada is far more special, even how she uses her tongue in the teeth to make words, she sounds more Japanese, more feminine, she has a better range of emotion, character is better developed; The new Mariko, i do not feel anything for.
Anna Sawai is the ultimate Mariko-san. She is the character from the book as I always imagined her. Mariko's physical beauty is there. Unbelievably, she only manages to surpass the original Mariko - Yoko Shimada - who, despite being unknown outside Japan, was so good in the role that she won the Golden Globe that year. Anna won the Emmy this year and will win the Golden Globe too.
Hai, PamelaHermano-San. The original DVD and/or BluRay is available through Ebay.com. Also, some subscribers have said that they can watch it on InternetArchive. If you have not seen all 9-hours of Shogun 1980, you absolutely should do yourself a favor and watch it. You will be so glad you did. Also, once you do, I would love to hear your comments. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@pamelahermano9298 My friend, the Shogun Channel, is correct... I have just checked... Just google... Internet Archive Shogun 1980... and there is a list of the episodes... I have just watched the first episode, at the start, the long distance helicopter panoramic shot of the Erasmus, far out in the Pacific, is a wonderful start to the show... You can see the whole show for free on Internet Archive...
La versión original de 1980 es muy superior. la expresividad de los actores, vestuario, en la delicadesa de esa Mariko, escenario de fondo, colorido, y las tomas o estilo visual.
More realistic in costume design and set pieces, I agree given the budget and attention to detail, but less realistic in how an English navigator and a Japanese high born woman would act in that period. Plus, original version was more faithful to the novel that many viewers have not read.
I've seen both versions and I'm clearly in the minority here because I far prefer the new version. The 1980's miniseries was frankly just too clean and sanitized for your protection. Richard Chamberlin looked like he stepped out of a recent shower, with a heavy makeup job, and a hair salon blow out. This new version which is far darker, far grimier, more brutal, more darkly lit, and with the Japanese subtitles far better captures the essence of early 17th century feudal Japan.
Yes, curiously, but as I am in the majority, I can agree with your reasoning... I prefer the 1980 version, but, in some ways, the 2024 version may be better for a young, new audience... I just feel that most of the actors cast in this 2024 version, just do not seem to have the same aura or gravitas as the earlier version...
@@richardruff8712 Richard Chamberlain read the book and decided that he wanted to play the character of Blackthorne and asked his agent to get the role for him. He also did as much research as possible on the historical characters. Yoko Shimada had Luca Bercovici, the son of the producer as her English language coach and the father and son duo worked on adapting her lines to fit her learning of English. Frankie (Yabu), Mifune (Toranaga), Alan Badel (Dell'Aqua) had theatrical/stage showmanship experience which they brought life into the characters. Rodrigues was the screen writer's favorite character and got the part to John Rhys-Davies.
@@richardruff8712 and if you watch the cast interview, which is on this channel, it seems like the 1980 producers and directors spent a lot to time carefully selecting the actors, even going as far as accommodating the schedules of the chosen cast or helping them out, like with the English coaching for Mariko and modifying her dialog to fit her understanding of English so she is aware of what she is being asked to say.
If you are just looking for the visuals and attention to detail, then yes 2024 with a better budget will be your cup of tea. But if you read the novel, the 80s version is more faithful to the characters, plot, and nuance of the story. The actors and acting were a lot better in the original version if one has read the novel and understand that masking one's emotions and intentions does not mean being poker-faced and brooding all the time. One can show a range of emotions, fake and genuine alike, while masking one's true deep-seated feelings, opinions, and intentions. Plus, the actors in the original version are more memorable. In the new version, I can't even remember how Omi looks at time LOL.
This is not even a contest between equals. The original is superior in every aspect. The actors, screenplay, sets, kimonos and even the lighting. I absolutely hate that every seen in the new mini series seems to be filmed at midnight. Why are the scenes so dark in Shougun 2024?
I have lived in Japan for 30 years. In the older version, the Japanese are very Japanese. In the newer version, Buntaro, Mariko, Yabu, and Ishido are very non-Japanese a times - too expressive, animated, emotional, and so forth.
1980 version is my childhood, love forever and ever☺
Though both the original Shogun miniseries and the remake have their good points, I personally prefer the original Shogun from the 1980s over the 2024 remake.
The original version 1980✨✨✨✨✨👍
Yoko Shimada has so much grace, presence, a radiating beauty.
Notice how in the 80's version Anjin is immediately struck by her beauty, not so much in the modern one
Hai, Rodline-San. Blackthorne 1980 is completely struck by Mariko 1980 (Yoko Shimada)'s beauty immediately, and Richard Chamberlain did a fantastic job showing it. Agreed: Blackthorn 2024's response to Mariko 2024 was: "Ma'am, you should know I'm not Catholic." Boy, if that doesn't convey attraction, I don't know what does. Haha! Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel I also think on seeing Mariko, Blackthorn realized this culture was indeed civilized and was so pleased to see beauty existed. It gave him hope. There were many layers to Blackthorn's reaction which exhibits the depth of the understanding of the Japanese culture vs. the western culture by Clavelle. Which is why his story is so far superior to the 2024 version cobbling together actions and reactions that make no sense to either culture.
@@KellysAdventures305 Very true. I feel the modern version lack depth and emotion.
@@warrennicholsony.fernando4513 Most definitely. It's sad.
@@warrennicholsony.fernando4513 Yeah, but the lustful look was obvious and could insult the Shogun. I would try to look away :D. But what also is interesting is what men's hairstyle was back then. Short or hippie?
The beauty and elegance of Mariko’s entrance in the 1980s version is vastly superior
They can't really be measured on the same scale. The current version downplays her entrance to the point of outright diminishing its importance. The camera work is either grossly incompetent (let's say that's unlikely), or it's a kind of postmodernist thumbing of the nose at convention, as your view of her is blocked by a column at the moment you are most intently looking at her.
Both actresses are absolutely breathtaking.
@@gawainethefirst Yoko Shimada yes, the other what’s her face No
@@AndSendMe No. I think they are just using the clumsy camerawork to hide Sawai's lack of training and demeanor, the way most current productions use quick cut editing to make dancing or fighting look good. She looks like what she is - a 21st century girl cosplaying a traditional lady.
@@paintedjaguar Thank you, that logical possibility had not occurred to me.
I first saw the 1980 version on German television in 1984. I was 13 years old and I immediately fell in love with Yoko Shimada. Her beauty and elegance captivated me. So I’m a little bit prejudiced. But I wonder why there’s a lack of light and color in so many modern shows? They almost don’t show sunshine anymore. Everything looks dirty and depressing. The costumes are so dark. Even in that era they know how to dye silk in Japan.
Hai, Ab_gaensedistel4396-San. I agree with everything you have said. It is surprising, especially when silk dying was commonly done in Japan in the Sengoku Period. Excellent Comments. Arigatou Gozaimashita. 👍
当時の屋敷の中の照明と自然光を忠実に再現しました。真田はあえてそうしたのです。
@@jistorobo Thank you for your answer. In my humble opinion using natural light only was done better in the film "Barry Lyndon" by Stanley Kubrick from 1975. There some scenes were shot with candlelight only by using special lenses and film. Modern shows are often to dark. Doesn´t modern technique could do better?
Me too. I m hooked in love with Mariko 1980
Considering how badly Yoko Shimada's life spun out, it's wonderful to see so much admiration for her work.
"As long as we can love each other, and remember the feeling of love we had, we can die without ever really going away. All the love you created is still there. All the memories are still there. You live on -- in the hearts of everyone you have touched and nurtured while you were here." ~ Morris Schwartz
“What we have once enjoyed we can never lose. All that we love deeply becomes a part of us.” ~ Helen Keller
“Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” ~ Marie Curie
"Cycles of life and death can be likened to the alternating periods of sleep and wakefulness. Just as sleep prepares us for the next day’s activity, death can be seen as a state in which we rest and replenish ourselves for new life. In this light, death should be acknowledged, along with life, as a blessing to be appreciated." ~ Daisaku Ikeda
"Don't be afraid. Change is such a beautiful thing", said the Butterfly." ~ Sabrina Newby
“What is lovely never dies, but passes into another loveliness.” ~ Thomas Bailey Aldrich
"Quality of soul... it is our earthly floor, and heaven's door." ~ Paul Jung
"The melody that the loved one played upon the piano of your life will never be played quite that way again, but we must not close the keyboard and allow the instrument to gather dust. We must seek out other artists of the spirit, new friends who gradually will help us to find the road to life again, who will walk the road with us." ~ Joshua Loth Liebman
"The pain passes, but the beauty remains." ~ Henri Matisse
Truly sad and disheartening. She was so mesmerizing to a young boy of 10, in 1980, that she is still relevant to me in 2024. RIP.
This, again, is the difference between an American production and a Japanese one. In the original, Anjin-san is the handsome, charismatic, swashbuckling type. In the new Japanese one, he’s a bumbling gaijin. Mariko is also an idealized version of an early 1600’s Japanese lady, elegant and flawlessly beautiful. In the new one she’s a wounded soul enduring the unendurable dishonors of her family. I appreciate the Japanese one, but Yoko Shimada will always be my Mariko!
I agree except this Mariko is not enduring. She is whining and crying and a complete mess. How strong the Mariko of 1980s version to have gone through all that and still the flawless Lady with the entire country 's respect. She endured.
Both Mariko and Toranaga from the 1980 version portrayed characters that showed a different face to the public than showing all of their hidden cunning and planning, like they are described in the novel. With several layers to their personalities.
The new versions, they often wear on their face what they are thinking or feeling.
The 2024 version is an American production and was not even shot in Japan. The new one definitely reflects America's continuing dive into the sewer of naturalism in its choices.
@@ALwinDigital Hah, I got savaged in another comment section for daring to use the word "layers" with regard to what was lacking in Mariko's performance.
@@AndSendMe And current social trends for weak Men and strong women, or at least what it thinks it is. They castrated Blackthorn and injected Mariko and Fugiko with steroids. Its obscene. When can we let men be men and women be women?
1980 provided an elegance and special moment that did not occur in 2024.
1980s Mariko was more warm than today's version
I don't really think Mariko 2024 seems very Japanese.
@@Cryptonymicus She seems very cold.
Anna Sawai (Mariko 2024) has Japanese parents, but was born in New Zealand. She moved back to Japan with her family at age 11. To my mind she does not exhibit a ‘normal’ female Japanese accent. I suspect it is easier for most Americans to follow her English, which works well for the movies.
I had Japanese a friend who worked at their Embassy in DC. She spoke and taught excellent American English, but her Japanese accent was much closer to that of Yoko Shimada (Mariko 1980).
Both actresses gave exceptional performances.
But I far prefer hearing the female Japanese accent I am accustomed to, in that role.
1980, without a doubt.
1980 version by a mile. She's amazing!
Shogun 2024 is so different because it attempts to film many more scenes out in the field and the dimmer lighting delivers a darker more threatening backdrop. Episode 6 of the 2024 version finally delivered the kind of tension and drama this style was hoping to achieve. But for anyone like me, brought up on the 1980 version it is hard to think of Mariko and Toranaga as anyone other than the luminous Shimada or the brooding Mifune.
Hai, MikeFriend-San. I agree with you. Episode 6 finally gave something that I did enjoy. The scenes with Kiku were interesting. She is more seductive in Shogun 2024 than in Shogun 1980. For Shogun 2024, I have had to put aside my wonderful memories of Shogun 1980, and imagine they are new characters. Only then was I able to see that Shogun 2024 is a War-Military-Politics Action Drama, whereas, Shogun 1980 displayed the lighter, more cultural aspects of Japan: like The Sailors Dance, peaceful Anjiro scenes, Bathing "Ofuro" scenes, etc. I agree that it is hard to think of Mariko and Toranaga as anyone other than, as you eloquently stated, "luminous" Shimada or the brooding Mifune. Excellent Comments. Arigatogozaimashita.
The original was shot in Japan, and the newer was shot in British Columbia. COVID prevented it from being filmed in Japan. It doesn't look like Japan. That prolonged level of wetness and dampness doesn't happen in Japan. The area where it was shot in BC is an actual rainforest.
I respectfully don't agree with the darker scenery delivering tension and drama. The real drama is not what is seen but what is felt. If we would understand tension and drama only based on the scenery and color and would childishly say that now it is ominous because the clouds are low and dark and now we should feel high because the sun is shining, we would never be able to appreciate an exquisite Noh drama, accentuated by its dramatic lean music as the '80s series do perfectly, relying not on cheap props to deliver the tension between the characters but on real acting.
Original Mariko is the greatest. She's alive behind the eyes.
1980 Delicate flower, Soft Oriental beauty like a Disney princess , 2024 Deceptive beauty that emanate cold as ice if looks could kill.
1980 Version. Toshiro Mifune, Yoko Shimada, and John Rhys-Davies! 🙂👍
Don't forget Damian Thomas as Father Alvito... Amazing style and appearance...
It will be a long time before Shimada Yoko is surpassed in this role. Toda Mariko was an incredible character, more courageous than all the samurai around her combined. Yoko-san rest in peace.
She will never be surpassed in this role. You are so correct. She was stronger then all of them combined. Blackthorn saw it.
Yoko Shimada ，so beautiful❤
Mariko 1980 is superior! Elegance Charm Culture Beautiful!
I grew up watching the 1980 as a young teenager.
1980 version is beautiful!
I have the 80s version ,but my dvd player wont play it,
DAMNATION
@@davidwilliams8061 Damnation indeed since nothing can top the classics as a rule.
Yoko Shimada was born in Japan in the 50s. She was raised in what would have been "classical" Japan. Meaning the customs were more similar to pre-WW2 culture than post 2000 culture.
Anna Sawai was raised in post 2000 Japanese culture which is a manga and internet culture.
Sawai has no hope in hell of pulling off the class and elegance that Shimada had from her upbringing.
This parallel presentation is excellent, it shows the differences, a good way to learn cinematography.
In both versions, Toranaga are outstanding actors.
Domo, JJLemire-San, for kind words. Arigatogozaimashita.
1980!
Yoko Shimada has something....
Not something, but everything!
The new Mariko seems rather rude and condescending when it comes to Blackthorne. While in the original, she didn't care too much for him, thinking that he was still a barbarian, she was at least polite and made an effort to be pleasant, until she warmed up to him and fell for him. It was made less obvious in the 1980 show and in the book, it showed she didn't think too highly of him, but made an effort to be polite. But the new one is more impolite, which is not only out of character, but rather inconsistent with how the Japanese were supposed to be portrayed. That the folks tried to show good manners and apologize when needed, whether they meant it or not.
Hai, Yabuturtle-San. Very Excellent and Wonderful Comments: I even made a note to make a Shogun Showdown with how Mariko treats Blackthorne in both. As you accurately stated, Mariko 1980 and in the novel, made an effort to be polite to Blackthorne, but in Shogun 2024, she seems to loathe Blackthorn, at every turn. It is as if she wished she were anywhere else, but with him. So completely different. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Yes, that is what the new version did not get but viewers who did not read the novel do not understand this aspect. In fact, being polite is the facade. In the new version, we see the main characters always brooding without any other emotion. Masking one's true feelings and intentions doesn't mean one is always brooding of poker-faced LOL. One can show a range of emotions, fake and genuine, while still not showing the real deep-seated feeling or intention towards another.
Several commenters on other channels that talk about Shogun, mainly reviews or discussions about 2024 version, say they have never read the novel or plan to read it, never watched the 1980 version...
My response: you can't miss/appreciate something you never had.
Those like me who have read the novel several times, I have a copy on kindle and re-read it often, and have copies of the 1980 version:
1. We know the historical inaccuracies in the novel/story, but we don't care because Shogun is a fictional story that takes place in what can be considered an alternate history of Japan. It's not meant to be a historical or biographical story about real events or figures.
2. We are disappointed with some of the key omissions in the current version, some of the changes that don't quite fit with the overall story, and we do appreciate some of the additions that were omitted from the 1980 version due to time, budget and visual medium constraints.
Without the attempted seppuku scene, the character of Blackthorne is not re-born in this version, there is no evolution for him as a character, and I don't see him and Mariko developing anything beyond friendship.
With the alteration to the conversation topic about "unless you win" and without the hornpipe dance scene, I don't see why Toranaga would keep protecting Blackthorne. He would likely just get everything from Blackthorne's head and then be done with him.
What's the point of highlighting something insignificant or minor like a natto dish?
I like that they showed the killing of Lord Sugiyama, which was only mentioned in the novel that it happened.
But I dislike them trying to make Ochiba into a villain (several commenters are comparing her to Cersi). Ochiba is not a villain, yes she is scheming and manipulating, but she is a mother trying to protect her son's inheritance. Ishido isn't a true villain either. The story of Shogun doesn't have any true villains, just characters with their own individual interests and goals.
Hai, ALWinDigital-San. Truly Excellent And Well Thought Out Comments. I absolutely agree with:
#1 Hai! = "We know the historical inaccuracies in the novel/story, but we don't care because Shogun is a fictional story that takes place in what can be considered an alternate history of Japan. It's not meant to be a historical or biographical story about real events or figures."
#2 - Precisely.
Seppuku Scene Missing - Hai, exactly. There were pivotal moments of growth in Shogun 1980, as a sub-plot story. Also, the love affair of Mariko and Blackthorne was felt in Shogun 1980, whereas, you are correct, they are seen in Shogun 2024 as little more than friends.
Missing Hornpipe and "Unless You Win" - Hahahahahahaha! Exactly, Toranaga should just get Blackthorn's valuable information, and execute him. There really is no friendship, so far, in 6 episodes of Shogun 2024.
Natto Dish Comment = Hahahahahahahha! I don't know what the point of it was, but I felt like I was doing research for an exhausting project, when I saw that scene.
Sugiyama Death Scene - Hai, there have been some interesting, included scenes in Shogun 2024, that were in the novel, and not in Shogun 1980. And, there are some back storylines, that were added that were not in the novel, like Fujiko's husband's Seppuku, and their child.
Lady Ochiba - Hai, I agree, and I see her the same way. It seems they have made her into a slithery, scheming woman, with a strange sound to her voice when she is trying to manipulate, but that does not ring true to the character in the novel, of which, there was very little of her in Shogun 1980.
Ishido - Hai, he wasn't the villain, but each, including The Jesuits, were trying to plot for power in control, in their respective realms, which is understandable.
Wonderful comments, as usual. Domo for the great laughs with this. Excellent commentary as well. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel in the novel Fujiko’s husband didn’t commit seppuku. He was put to death on Toranaga’s orders. The scene in the novel involves Ishido making some insulting comments in front of Toranaga and his men trying to provoke them into attacking or killing him, to give his own men an excuse to retaliate and eliminate Toranaga. Toranaga understood this, but Usagi was over zealous in trying to protect Toranaga’s honor and drew his sword.
The entire alteration to Usagi speaking out and promising to commit seppuku and kill his own son doesn’t make sense in the 2024 version.
Domo, ALwinDigital-San. You are correct: It doesn't make sense. Arigatogozaimashita. @@ALwinDigital
You are so right; those other channels are just ridiculous. Not having read the book and not having watched the original Series is crazy.
It is interesting to watch and see how the two Series could evolve from the same book. If read the book many times, an all-time favorite, same with the 1980 Series.
It is not even close: 1980 all the way. Love the original Mariko; you can see why the original Anjin-San fell for her! The current version…. NOT!
@@williamsuper213 The current Blackthorne is not showing the wide range of knowledge and experience he shows in the novel, the current Mariko is just...
1980 version has a lot more nuances. 80's Blackthorne's stare at Mariko appears he's smitten. 80's Mariko introduction and entrance is more expanded...
And more elegant.
Hiroyuki Sanada (Toranaga), Moeka Hoshi (Fujiko) and Tadanobu Asano (Yabu) all worked for me. The rest of the 2024 cast cannot touch 1980. Anna Sawai was just not right for the part and I'm shocked that she is getting critical acclaim. Richard Chamberlain might not be English, but he very easily outshines Cosmo Jarvis
I can't stand the new Blackthorne. The rest I can accept and the new Fuji did better than the original version Fuji, in my opinion. Maybe it is because she has more scenes, I don't know.
The use of incidental music in the 1980 version also added a lot
80's actress is beautiful.
1980 versión is warmer and marks the attraction between both characters.
皆様島田陽子さんのことを良く憶えておいてくれて嬉しいです
そう、私たちは驚くべき島田陽子をどうして忘れることができるでしょうか？
1980 version of Shogun WINS with an all-star cast! No contest.
Lady Mariko in the 80s series is played by an indigenous Japanese... listen to that accent! ❤ oh my.You can't fake it....
In the remake, Mariko has a less than convincing native Japanese accent.
You can't really speak like an indigenous native unless you are born a native.
On that note, Lady Mariko of the old series is as Japanese as it gets with all the cultural essence and etiquette of the language spoken by a female❤🎉
Highly Excellent Comments! I agree with everything you have eloquently said: Lady Mariko of the old series is as Japanese as it gets with all the cultural essence and etiquette. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Shimada shows refinement in movement. Sawai seems stiff and uncomfortable. Shimada shows subtlety and grace in her expressions. Sawai looks flat. Sawai mimics while Shimada embodies.
Yoko Shimada lit up the whole world with that entrance.
1980 far superior! All aspects....
There is really no need to brood for long on this choice: Shimada's Toda Mariko is like delicate silver moonray, and you can not but love her from the first moment you set eyes on her, as Blackthorne obviously does, clearly acted by Chamberlain. There is no mistaking the connection between those two, and the penetrating gaze of Blackthorne in the last moment, discerning the hidden anguish in Mariko. This goes beyond Shimada being more beautiful and delicate and feminine than Sawai, because that is obvious. What is more expressive though, is how Shimada, like Mariko in the novel, is able to represent completely and entirely the Eightfold Fence, hiding her anguish and horror and hard life and her coveting to death under the deep outer layers of the japanese high-class noble lady, demure, sweet, delicate and submitted (I know I said delicate 3 times - what can I say - I love her). This outward look and behaviour makes it so much much more heartfelt and intense the ruthless Mariko who gives everything against her family enemies, to her lord Toranaga, and lastly, to her great love Blackthorne. And this play with these extreme behaviours is what makes the '80 series such a marvelous work of art (notwithstanding its limitations).
And let us analyse Blackthorne as well. Chamberlain, is clearly a secure man, the man who could pilot a fleet around the world and preserve his authority, sanity, and strength to the end. He knows he needs to be decisive and deadly. He knows he needs to be strong and to the point. His speech is clear, his words are chosen well, he aims everything to his advantage (and his life) and he strives to achieve those goals.
Jarvis... oh Kami! halting speech, eyes like a lost sheep, bodystance like Hodor (game of thrones halfwit), as subtle as a handful of mud, demonstrating as much ability, strength, objectivity and dedication as a dry burdock clinging to a cow's tail. Level of astonishment by Mariko entering - nonexisting. Potential to amuse, astonish, intrigue both Mariko and Toranaga - zero.
Excellently stated, observed, and expressed. A Wonderful Analysis of both, with pinpoint accuracy. Very Excellent Comments. Arigato Gozaimashita.
I totally agree with your observation & statement. I wanted to like the 2024 Mariko although I can't say that I really did very much. Maybe I am prejudiced by the fact that I grew up with Yoko Shimada's interpretation of the character, but Anna Sawai's interpretation of Mariko looks like she is extremely pissed to even be having to deal with any of these ppl. As far as the relationship between her & Blackthorne, she didn't look to me like she had much of any real depth of feeling for him in the same manner that Yoko Shimada did. You could feel a reasonable facsimile of affection between Chamberlain & Shimada (which was amazing considering that Chamberlain later came out as gay, but he is/was an actor) that just doesn't seem to be there with Cosmo Jarvis & Anna Sawai.
Chamberlain was gay but the moment he saw Shimada, he was like damn I can switch side anytime
The 80s version is the one I like the best and one of the reasons is because I really became close with all the different characters and understood thier roles in the story. The new one everybody is a complete asshole, no likability whatsoever. The dark stormy look that is in everything also compounds the doom and gloom attitude of the whole story. The 80s version is bright and extremely character rich.
Hai, MarkBlackwell-San. Hahahaha! Excellent Comments, and Domo for the good laugh. I agree with you 150%. We all became close with ALL of the different characters and understood their roles in the story. The Very Important Like-Ability Factor is far less in Shogun 2024, and sometimes I wonder if they made it that way on purpose. Hai, The 'dark stormy look' is so dreadful, and it is exacerbated by almost every scene is rain. Just checked Weather.com for Tokyo, and it has an equal mix of rain and sun for this Sakura Season time of year there. However, watching Shogun 2024, one would think it rains there all the time, and it was filmed in Canada, which bothers me in almost every scene that I see Canadian Redwood Trees. They only have Dawn Redwoods in Japan, and it is only located in the northwestern part of The Shiga Prefecture. Shogun 1980 is definitely bright and colorful, with extremely good characters and character development. Arigatogozaimashita. 👍🏆
@@theshogunchannel Arigato Gozaimasu!
Let us not forget, in this 2024 version, there is ONE shining star... I refer to the very lovely and very cute Moeka Hoshi, starring as Fujiko... This lady is simply wonderful in this version.... Those eyes... WOW !
Although I prefer the 1980 shogun, I think the current actor playing Lord Toranaga is very good. I feel like I can see the wheels turning in his head.
@@richardruff8712Yes. She's beautiful, and I think prettier than the current Mariko.
Konichiwa, Shogun Channel-San. In the 1980 Shogun, we, as the spectators, understand that Blackthorn, having watched Mariko's entrance walk, immediately fell in love with her, one might say at first sight, while in the 2024 Shogun version there is no manifestation of feelings at all! Mariko comes up from behind, Blackthorn doesn’t have time to look at her, and then they start to talk business. There's no time to fall in love!
Another confirmation that the 1980 series was filmed by a master, and the acting is, for lack of a better word, magnificent! Shogun 1980 wins. Shogun 2024: fatality
Highly Excellent Comments, Kremlin3000-San. I completely agree with everything you have said. There is no time for love in Shogun 2024: it appears to be all war. Personally, I miss the love and romance of Mariko and Blackthorne. Also, I miss the Hornpipe Dance that Blackthorne and Toranaga did, miss Toranaga fishing with Yaemon in Osaka Castle Lake. I agree: Shogun 1980 Series was filmed by a master, and the acting was magnificent. Domo for your great comments. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Chamberlin and Mifune were more accomplished actors the gap more advanced in Chamberlains case.Their had to be innate strength in the Anjin to survive and impress Toranage and you get that with Chamberlin.
Definitely. And to win the grudging respect of other samurai warriors around him. This new guy is just a dud. His Blackthorne is achingly stupid.
1980's version better and I enjoyed their acting more. Though Hiroyuki Sanada is an excellent actor. Mariko in this newer version seems more abrupt and rude to JB. Sanada does justice to Toronaga's part.
1980 without doubt. 2024 Mariko has a girl boss vibe that wouldn't be tolerated in this hyper-patriarchal culture especially given her backstory. 1980 Mariko showed the proper degree of deference and demureness plus she walked correctly almost like gliding--this is Toranaga's court after all. So graceful. The 2024 Blackthorn is too bumbling and awkward. Blackthorn is supposed to be an adventurer and skilled navigator who finds his way into the highest echelon of feudal Japanese society. 1980 Blackthorn did a good job capturing this larger-than-life character.
Also, the 2024 Mariko bow is what I'd expect from an equal to Toranaga--Ishido maybe but not Mariko. That's really disrespectful for her to do and wouldn't have been tolerated. The 1980 Mariko bowed properly.
The high quality of the 1980 version I attribute to the author, James Clavell, acting as executive producer.
Hai, Plenarchist-San. Very Excellent Comments and Observations. I agree with everything you have said. Wonderful comments on bowing: "really disrespectul" & "1980 Mariko bowed properly" - Great Observations. Hai, girl boss vibe would not be tolerated. Domo for the excellent comments. Arigatou Gozaimashita. 👍🏆
Yes, I noticed the girl boss characterization which is part of today's characterization of women. Can't a woman be feminine and still be strong like the 80s Mariko? I was astounded to see that Mariko fought Ishido's guards alone and also the other battle scenes with her fighting other soldiers.
New Blackthorne was a bumbling fool which a navigator should not be and so unlike the novel's Blackthorne and the real person the character was based on. Of all the characters of the new version, Blackthorne is the one I disliked so much. He is not even needed in the story because the point of view was changed. It is like the usual portrayal of white men as fools (and I am Asian) so as to put "white" men down while propping up the Japanese as superior which is not needed because Blackthorne changed his mind about Japanese culture and regarded the Japanese as civilized people and even superior in some aspects like cleanliness and hygiene.
@@whatevergoesforme5129 Domo, Whatevergoesforme-San. Highly Excellent Comments. I agree 100%. Arigato Gozaimashita. 🏆
I couldn't agree more. Your analysis is spot on. The modern world is blind to quality filmmaking.
I fear we are doomed to live forever in a world of inferior filmmaking compared to our past achievements.
1980 version all the way.
Absolutely. 2024 is all wrong.
100% !
All the way to hell. Ridiculous!
@@carloschacal9334 do u have eyes to judge? And an ear to hear?
@@angryws Yes, I do. But eyes and ears you seem to be lacking. 1980 version was a amateurish compared to 2024's.
In the left corner, you have elegance and class. In the right corner, you have a sneering girlboss.... right....
Sidenote : Massive props to Damien Thomas who played Martin Alvito in the original version. He was fantastic in the role.
I think Anna is good choice, but I like Yoko Shimada´s japanese accent when she speaks english.
Mifune is Toranaga, Shimada is Mariko. Had you not seen the original, you would think that this is definitive. As much as I love Sanada, it's not close. The elegance of the original is missing, especially in the character Mariko. The contrast between her elegance and deceptiveness is marvelous. Makeup and grandiosity do not make up for substance. Shimada IS Mariko. The other lady plays her. We seem to think that Japanese characters must always be scowling. Mariko is devious, but charming. This version misses that completely.
Yoko Shimada forever!!! This video is comparing treasure to trash.
Hai, Alwin-Digital-San. But however, perhaps they are trying to convey the inner workings of Mariko with Anna Sawai. I do love the performance of Yoko Shimada in this comparison much more. My biggest complaints are still: Blue-Tint Filter and Japan Location Filming, oh, and more Japanese Shamisen and Bamboo Flutes, with a scene or two of the peaceful aspects of the village. I understand they are trying to convey a dark time, but there were beautiful times as well. Why couldn't they have filmed it in Japan please? Arigatogozaimashita.
Japanese accent that 80's Mariko have is closer to reality.. IMO
It also helped that she has a very real accent. Yoko Shimada's English was practically nonexistent and she basically learned the language as the series was shot, through voice coaches, etc.
1980 version is mouch better
What a cheap, artificial and wrong decision to remake such a wonderful film after 40 years.
Mifune is a 24 carat authoritative actor whereas Chamberlain acts like a noble aristocrat.
Yoko Shimada (re)presents the asiatic classical elegance, highly elaborated court manners,
an intelligence sharp as a samurai sword, and pure emotion. The film was really a sensation
during the communist dictatorship in Albania, an eye-opener to ancient Japanese culture.
The new Mariko doesn't seems to like Blackthorn, there is no chemistry between them and the actress doesn't know how tho show emotions other than sadness
Hai, Matias5817-San. I agree. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
The 80’s version of closer to the live story that drives the plot. The 2024 is much more about the fight for Shogun and historical accuracy. As a lover of the book I prefer the 80’s with all its flaws and commercial breaks. But that’s just me,
Love story…
Hai, Danwheetman-San. I agree. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Yoko Shimada the best ❤❤❤
The "eyes" have it for Yôko Shimada (1980) as Mariko...an exotic porcelain *goddess*!
1980 Mariko and Blackthorne, 2024 Toranaga, Yabu, and Ochiba. My favorite series. Both of them. Well done on both.
Yes Mariko was NEVER sullen, even when facing the end there was a spark of joy in her strong eyes, yes she had the shame of her family but it was Fujiko that at least started as sullen - honestly she seems more like Fujiko always wanting death... Mariko didn't want to die, especially found strength and love from Ajin san and just did not fear death. Life & death are the same thing. I actually like this version of Fujiko as we get to see a lot more of her story and get to see the burgeoning friendship between Anjin San & Fujiko. She cared for him, was extremely protective of and provided for him what would be a great life after her death.
I don't know why Blackthorn is even in the 2024 film. He doesn't seem to serve any purpose. And he certainly isn't there to provide a focal point for the audience being introduced to Samurai Japan because the 2024 version seems to assume that the audience already knows what it needs to know about Samurai Japan and the entire story of "Shogun."
Hai, Cryptonymicus-San! Very Excellent Comments! I agree 100%: What purpose is Blackthorn serving in Shogun 2024? It is certainly not the same purpose in Shogun 1980, or in the novel. They could have killed off Cosmo Jarvis in Episode 3 and still continued their power struggle storyline. Domo for commenting this. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
Love the comparisons you are doing here. Have read the book twice and have watch the 1980 miniseries at least 20 times. There are so many differences, in both, however in some cases the 2024 (have watched the first three episodes) gets close to the book in some scenes and leaves off others. As they say the jury is still out.
Hai, FJuran1-San. You are 100% on everything you stated. I have come to realize that Shogun 2024 is a different perspective and telling of The Shogun novel. They do focus on other scenes that were in the novel, but perhaps too risque, at the time, in 1980. I think they both have their merit, and I will try to be more fair in the future Shogun Showdowns to both, because they focus on different aspects of Shogun. Excellent Comments. Arigatogozaimashita.
Wow, 20 times! I just watched twice.
I'm partial to 1980 Mariko. I think the 2024 Mariko was heavily influenced by how female characters are written today and it feels slightly out of place in the era the story is set IMHO. Also, by ep 6 you are seeing that Mariko is becoming a central figure in the main storyline as well as Lady Ochiba. Going slightly off topic here (my apologies) and correct me if I'm wrong but Lady Ochiba wasn't the daughter of Goroda (the historical Oda Nobunaga) in the novel or 1980 show right? And I also don't remember (as it's been a long time since I read the book or re-watched the 1980 ed) Ochiba being the central nemesis to Toranaga as she clearly is becoming in the 2024 ed. I don't remember Ochiba being that central a figure in the originals.
Hai, ColtraneCave-San. I agree with you: Mariko 2024 is based on female characters today, rather than, female characters in the fictional novel, Shogun, or in Shogun 1980, and it does feel like a Rewriting of History, rather than being true to the novel, or Sengoku Period History. Hai, Ep. 6 has a conniving, scheming Lady Ochiba, and I do not remember her in the novel, being the daughter of Goroda. I would have to go and check, as I've marked many spots in the novel. I would have to recheck her role in the novel, but in Shogun 1980, there is only a 30 second scene with Lady Ochiba and Lord Ishido, and it is a silent scene. Lord Ishido was the chief nemesis in Shogun 1980, with meddling from The Jesuits. I believe you are correct, but I would have to go re-check the novel. Excellent observations and comments! Arigatogozaimashita. 👍
Curious considering so much effort was put into names design and speech tailored to the 17 century.
@@colingoldie9173 When I watch historical dramas, the thrill is in being a fly on the wall of major historical events, and that requires suspension of disbelief. In 2024, a "historical" drama requires female characters to rise above their prescribed gender roles and be "kick ass", which immediately ruins the suspension of disbelief. I know that Clavell's novel is a work of historical fiction as he took liberties with the historical record, but when I read his book or when I re-watch the 1980 show I can't help but feel like I am back there in 1600 AD Japan. I don't get that vibe from the 2024 ed.
Did anyone read the book? The 1980 version was a true faithful adaptation of the book. The new version was fine but other than the names, did not follow the book at all. Why? The changes did not make it better. Be well, stay safe.
Hai, RobertPatenaude-San. Hai, read the novel. I agree 100%. The changes to Shogun 2024 did not make it better. Excellent Comments. Arigato Gozaimashita. 👍🏆
James Clavell was the producer of 1980.
Yoko Shimada hands down. She is the classic Japanese beauty of Kyoto and Nara.
Exemplifying the grace and refinement of high status Japanese women.
The new one is a Shinjuku or Harajuku "garl/gyaru." I'm half expecting her to show up with pink hair, camel lashes, fake nails, etc with their rough edgy language. Her features are also more generic east or South East Asian than the classic Japanese ideal.
Hahaha, Alyu-San. Excellent Comments. I agree with you. Let's hope she doesn't show up later with pink hair, etc. Haha. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel Dou itashimasite.
Another thing I dislike is the lighting.
Japan is not northern Europe; it is not constantly overcast and foggy between Kyoto/Kansai and Edo/Kanto. Plenty of beautiful sunny days.
Heck, many if not most days you can see Mt. Fuji from Tokyo/Yokohama from the right spot.
The cinematographer obviously watched too much "Vikings." lol
Some atmospheric scenes are okay, like the excellent forest battle scene in The Last Samurai, but not this incessant gloom. Enough already!!
Japanese costumes and fabrics are absolutely gorgeous but you can barely see the colors and details in the constant fog. Mottainai. lol
@@alyu1129 The problem of filming much in Canada...
After tonight's Finale, 100% the Only thing and I mean the ONLY thing that the new Shogun is Better at was the Wardrobe, the Story was all mixed up and changed but was still fun to watch. But the Original Mini Series was just so much better in Every Way......
Naah new one is better IMO.
1980 had all the beauty as well as the brutality. I understood the politics and the chess game the Lords were playing. 2024 is confusing and Blackthorn is awkward and bumbling. Blackthorn as you remember was a Lord in England. That is very high status. 1980 Blackthorn carried himself gracefully, skillfully and with authority. 2024 Blackthorn screams like a fool. His anger is as a child. Not a Noble Lord. He is clumsy and acts much lower class than his station. Although enjoying the 2024 show, it is not the same story. Too many modern references and poor attempts at humor. The loss of the close friendship and loyalty of Blackthorn and Torunaga is a huge hole. 1980 Shogun far superior to this woke attempt at showing what a strong woman looks like. The Mariko of 1980 is a much stronger woman than the 2024 foolish petulant child feeling so victimized. If 2024 Mariko tried to say the word Karma, it would stick in her throat as she hasn't got the foggiest idea what it means. I want to see grown up movies and TV again. Not this victim culture of spoiled Brats that can't fathom what life really is let alone cope like a grown up.
Hai, Kelly-San. Excellent Comments: Blackthorne was a Lord in England: You are correct! He did carry himself gracefully. For some reason, they have made, in Shogun 2024, to be more bumbling and inept. Perhaps it is part of a Social Engineering Construct, but you are 100% correct in your analysis and breakdown. I agree: I can only watch Shogun 2024 if I think of it as an entirely different story. I agree with all of your comments: A role reversal has also taken place: Stronger women Vs. Weaker men: Of course, I believe and prefer the opposite. Wonderful comments again! Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel Did you see the way he carried his swords back to his house one in each hand like each one weighed a ton? He hates Japan. He has not embraced the culture, he hates it. Omi-san was jealous of Anjin-san being with Kiku-san. That was out of place. Omi is still the slimy little weasel. I don't find it funny at all that Lord Yabu keeps redoing his will. He is defeated before he even fights. The other Yabu believed he was so clever and he would out live everyone. HIS plotting and scheming got him killed. In the 1980 version, Omi-san's honor and loyalty won him Anjin-san's respect. It's a completely different story than the Shogun novel or the 1980 mini series. I didn't like this episode at all. I wouldn't watch anymore if I never knew anything about Shogun because I don't appreciate woke culture at all. Their idea of what men and women are is sad and pathetic. In 1600s Japan, this Mariko would have never lived. Toranaga-sama is right! "What is this arguing?!" This is all just sad and I believe as woke culture continues to decline, so will this series. It will be seen at what it is. A sad commentary of the movie makers of the sad and pathetic transgender ideology consigned to the ash heap of fake history. Let's see what the last few episodes do. Redeem itself or we continue to descend into madness.
Hai Kelly-San. Very Highly Excellent Comments! I absolutely love your analysis and comments. I agree with everything you have eloquently stated. Hai, Omi-San seemed so much stronger, internally, in Shogun 1980, and Frankie Sakai as Yabu, and in the novel, did believe that he was so clever, that he was going to live longer than the rest. I agree: It is a completely different storyline than Shogun 1980 or the novel. I have had to watch it, only as a separate series altogether. In Shogun 1980, the men are strong, and the women graceful and gentle, but it is a gender reversal in Shogun 2024, with strong women and weak men. Excellent statement: "A sad commentary of the movie makers of the sad and pathetic transgender ideology consigned to the as heap of fake history." Wow! So wonderfully stated, Kelly-San. Domo Arigatogozaimashtia. @@KellysAdventures305 👍🏆🎓
@@theshogunchannel Thank you for your kind words. It's how I feel. Perhaps you can see how much I loved the 1980 Shogun. I was so looking forward to this take but I am so bitterly disappointed. Thank God for your channel. I don't feel like I'm crazy being too hard on it. It's awful.
Blackthorne wasn't actually a lord in the novel. In the 1980 series he says something like "Tell him I'm a lord in my country and I piss on him" to Omi in anger. But Blackthorne wasn't actually a lord. He did appear to have come from a better off family than most, and was well educated. He hoped that by being able to establish trade with Japan that he would become a member of the Peerage upon his return to England.
1980's version hands down. The coloring is brighter & more colorful. Etiquette & protocols were extremely important amongst aristocracy, but Especially royalty.
WHY can't hollywood leave any classic alone instead of very obviously inferior remakes?... it's infuriating.
If I remember correctly, The Mariko 1980 version, Yoko Shimada did not speak English fluently. She learned to speak English through a Dialect coach. When I watched the 1980 version of Shogun, I just assumed that she was fluent in English, because she does such a great job. Her acting is amazing to watch.
Definitely 1980 version…
shogun 1980 far superior.... from costumes 2 actors n sceneries n manners n story-lines..the women much prettier...n graceful...
the 1980 mariko never spoke English SHE HAD TO LEARN THE WHOLE SCRIPT BY HEART amazing.
That's correct she learned English phonetically
She won an award for her role as Mariko. Well deserved.
Is the 1980 miniseries available for streaming? I would much prefer to watch the original version.
I read the novel and watched it on TV decades ago but used a free website to rewatch it. You may need a VPN to go to the website if you live in countries with strict copyright laws.
If you have watched the Japanese made Taiga docu drama about historical Japan of similar era, the 1980s version is very close to Japanese production.
Domo for your comments, Getlost3346-San. I appreciate you adding this. Arigatou Gozaimashita. 👍
I haven’t seen the new series but I love the original and it seems more beautiful to me
After seeing most of the 2024 episodes, the 1980 miniseries is far better. Better performances, more interesting characters. I like the new Mariko though but she remains very subdued. It was clear, however, that the original Mariko liked Blackthorne while the new one is disgusted by him. There's no attraction between Cosmo and Anna. That makes the story much less interesting. It seems more a remake of Last Samurai than Shogun.
Hai, Impettus-San. Excellent Comments. I agree 100%. Arigatou Gozaimashita.
If you read the novel, the new Mariko is so unlike the novel's Mariko. Plus, her behavior would have never been accepted in feudal Japan. Being a girl boss with a brooding demeanor is not suitable in the period, but is common nowadays.
. Shogun 1980. Com o talentoso ator ,Richard Chamberlain.❤🇧🇷
Was do sorry to read of the death of the original actress who played lady Toda Buntaro Mariko she stole my heart, A beautiful Lady
Hai, DavidWilliams-San. Her name was Yoko Shimada. RIP. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel this l know,but some readers may not but Domo arigato
"As long as we can love each other, and remember the feeling of love we had, we can die without ever really going away. All the love you created is still there. All the memories are still there. You live on -- in the hearts of everyone you have touched and nurtured while you were here." ~ Morris Schwartz
“What we have once enjoyed we can never lose. All that we love deeply becomes a part of us.” ~ Helen Keller
“Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.” ~ Marie Curie
"Cycles of life and death can be likened to the alternating periods of sleep and wakefulness. Just as sleep prepares us for the next day’s activity, death can be seen as a state in which we rest and replenish ourselves for new life. In this light, death should be acknowledged, along with life, as a blessing to be appreciated." ~ Daisaku Ikeda
"Don't be afraid. Change is such a beautiful thing", said the Butterfly." ~ Sabrina Newby
“What is lovely never dies, but passes into another loveliness.” ~ Thomas Bailey Aldrich
"Quality of soul... it is our earthly floor, and heaven's door." ~ Paul Jung
"The melody that the loved one played upon the piano of your life will never be played quite that way again, but we must not close the keyboard and allow the instrument to gather dust. We must seek out other artists of the spirit, new friends who gradually will help us to find the road to life again, who will walk the road with us." ~ Joshua Loth Liebman
"The pain passes, but the beauty remains." ~ Henri Matisse
May she rest in peace. She won a award for her portrayal of Mariko. Her acceptance speech was short and polite. She was a class act.
Ah those lovely dimples….
Also, I am not sure if it is just me but the new Blackthorne looks and sounds too wimpy. For me, he lacks the presence compared to Richard Chamberlain
Sadly they could have used a better lead in the new version,the older version was just hard to beat.
Shogun [1980] forever!
I like the comparisons you are giving. Hope you do the pheasant bird scene and death of the gardener. In the 2024 Shogun seemed like Blackthorn wasn’t to bothered
I'm more curious how or if they will even include the scene where Blackthorne gives a flower to Lady Ochiba. I don't really see this version of Blackthorne being able to pull off the charm.
Hai, Stallion78-San. I will be working on that soon. Arigatogozaimashita.
Hai, AlwinDigital-San. I am curious about that too. I do understand more now about what Shogun 2024 is about, which is a different perspective on the same novel. Highly Excellent comments, as usual. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel fantastic 😃
@@ALwinDigital yes, this blackthorn has no charm. Nor does Blackthorn and Mariko have any chemistry in 2024 version.
The new show is good, but there is a bit too much hype about it up in the air. Especially in comparison to the old show and the character of Blackthorne has become more and more just a sidenote in the new one. And imo the new actor cannot hold a candle to Chamberlains performance. And Anna Sawai is doing a good job as Mariko, but she has a totally different aura than the orig. Actress Yoko Shimada, who so wonderfully portraid the chracter of Mariko. Yoko Shimada had more grace and kindness and actually felt more japanese, at least for me. Conclusion: So far, I like the new show, but I still like the original more.
The fact i could name the cast of 1980 show all these years on ... not so much this one . I loved that show . I bought the video .. (I fell in love with mariko😂❤) Its a great story ..this new version though was ruined by cosmo jarvis , the guy just cannot act ( checkout his other stuff ...just as bad ) . YABUSHIGE was fantastic in 2024 version though... ❤🎉😊
Really? I don't even know of him. Yes, I hate his portrayal of Blackthorne. And he doesn't have the good looks of Richard Chamberlain. Had he had good looks and charisma, even though he played Blackthorne as a fool, then at least, I have something to look at. And his voice. I can't stand his voice.
I prefer the original Mariko as played by Yoko Shimada. She had an almost ethereal grace and beauty that was not matched by the newer version. As much as I prefer the production values of the new series, I think the 1980 version is the superior telling of the novel as far too many cuts and liberties were taken by the showrunners of the new series.
LoL, I was going to do a similar video after watching both versions back to back. However, no reason to reinvent the wheel. Good job. I like both versions, but some parts of one better than how it is done in the other. Both Mariko have some good moments, as do the concubine scenes and fights. Love the cannon use in the second version. Noting some variation in the timelines when certain events happen, but as long as they do show them, someone who hasn't seen the other one won't know it was done differently. I feel the concubine has a stronger role in the new version, but that can also be the way they filmed the woman. In the first episode she is more of a background character, but she speaks more in the new version. She points the pistol at the escort in both versions, but it is more seriously shown in the 2nd version. Then again more episodes allows more latitude in filming. Both versions are very well done IMO. I hope I live long enough to see a 3rd version in 30 years or so. 🙂
I tend to compare a film to the source material. I know one cannot be as faithful to the novel because of the difference in medium but 80s Shogun was able to capture the essence of the novel and also was more faithful to it given that James Clavell was part of the writing process. I can accept the new characters, even the girl boss depiction of Mariko since we live in a different era of filmmaking but I can't accept the new Blackthorne. He was not a bumbling fool and even without the novel, a navigator of that period wouldn't act like a low class Englishman. Blackthorne held a senior rank and officers of that period were not peasants or come from the urban poor. They were highly educated but I guess white men today need to be portrayed as bumbling fools and women girl boss as if there is no strength in being feminine with a hidden will made or steel.
The camera work and scene setup in the original one are vastly superior. The modern one makes frustratingly bad choices in that regard, this is of course my opinion only.
It's not really a fair comparison. And who would ever want to be compared to Toshiro Mifune, in anything? He is a towering giant.
Original is vastly superior in all respects.
Cap
Yoko Shimada is far more special, even how she uses her tongue in the teeth to make words, she sounds more Japanese, more feminine, she has a better range of emotion, character is better developed; The new Mariko, i do not feel anything for.
Anna Sawai is the ultimate Mariko-san. She is the character from the book as I always imagined her. Mariko's physical beauty is there. Unbelievably, she only manages to surpass the original Mariko - Yoko Shimada - who, despite being unknown outside Japan, was so good in the role that she won the Golden Globe that year. Anna won the Emmy this year and will win the Golden Globe too.
I don’t even know how to find the 1980 version. I want to watch it so badly.
Hai, PamelaHermano-San. The original DVD and/or BluRay is available through Ebay.com. Also, some subscribers have said that they can watch it on InternetArchive. If you have not seen all 9-hours of Shogun 1980, you absolutely should do yourself a favor and watch it. You will be so glad you did. Also, once you do, I would love to hear your comments. Arigatogozaimashita.
@@theshogunchannel Thank you so much. I will try to find it online, if I’m unsuccessful I will purchase the blu ray.
@@pamelahermano9298 My friend, the Shogun Channel, is correct... I have just checked... Just google... Internet Archive Shogun 1980... and there is a list of the episodes... I have just watched the first episode, at the start, the long distance helicopter panoramic shot of the Erasmus, far out in the Pacific, is a wonderful start to the show... You can see the whole show for free on Internet Archive...
@@pamelahermano9298it’s really wonderful! Yes, I bought mine from EBay!
Check the local library.
Which ever one made me do a double take is the clear winner.............Yoko Shimada it is.
Day and night!
1980.... By far the best
La version de 1980 tiene mas encanto de lejos.🙂
Sí, estoy completamente de acuerdo contigo. Gracias por tu comentario. Arigatogozaimashita.
Loved them both
Shimada was so graceful and beautiful
La versión original de 1980 es muy superior. la expresividad de los actores, vestuario, en la delicadesa de esa Mariko, escenario de fondo, colorido, y las tomas o estilo visual.
Love 2024! More realistic
More realistic in costume design and set pieces, I agree given the budget and attention to detail, but less realistic in how an English navigator and a Japanese high born woman would act in that period. Plus, original version was more faithful to the novel that many viewers have not read.
I've seen both versions and I'm clearly in the minority here because I far prefer the new version. The 1980's miniseries was frankly just too clean and sanitized for your protection. Richard Chamberlin looked like he stepped out of a recent shower, with a heavy makeup job, and a hair salon blow out. This new version which is far darker, far grimier, more brutal, more darkly lit, and with the Japanese subtitles far better captures the essence of early 17th century feudal Japan.
Well, Blackthorne was forced begin taking regular baths when he got to Japan, so of course Richard Chamberlain looks cleaner.
Yes, curiously, but as I am in the majority, I can agree with your reasoning... I prefer the 1980 version, but, in some ways, the 2024 version may be better for a young, new audience... I just feel that most of the actors cast in this 2024 version, just do not seem to have the same aura or gravitas as the earlier version...
@@richardruff8712 Richard Chamberlain read the book and decided that he wanted to play the character of Blackthorne and asked his agent to get the role for him.
He also did as much research as possible on the historical characters.
Yoko Shimada had Luca Bercovici, the son of the producer as her English language coach and the father and son duo worked on adapting her lines to fit her learning of English.
Frankie (Yabu), Mifune (Toranaga), Alan Badel (Dell'Aqua) had theatrical/stage showmanship experience which they brought life into the characters.
Rodrigues was the screen writer's favorite character and got the part to John Rhys-Davies.
@@richardruff8712 and if you watch the cast interview, which is on this channel, it seems like the 1980 producers and directors spent a lot to time carefully selecting the actors, even going as far as accommodating the schedules of the chosen cast or helping them out, like with the English coaching for Mariko and modifying her dialog to fit her understanding of English so she is aware of what she is being asked to say.
If you are just looking for the visuals and attention to detail, then yes 2024 with a better budget will be your cup of tea. But if you read the novel, the 80s version is more faithful to the characters, plot, and nuance of the story. The actors and acting were a lot better in the original version if one has read the novel and understand that masking one's emotions and intentions does not mean being poker-faced and brooding all the time. One can show a range of emotions, fake and genuine alike, while masking one's true deep-seated feelings, opinions, and intentions. Plus, the actors in the original version are more memorable. In the new version, I can't even remember how Omi looks at time LOL.
2024 JB is unconvincing
This is not even a contest between equals. The original is superior in every aspect. The actors, screenplay, sets, kimonos and even the lighting. I absolutely hate that every seen in the new mini series seems to be filmed at midnight. Why are the scenes so dark in Shougun 2024?
I have lived in Japan for 30 years. In the older version, the Japanese are very Japanese. In the newer version, Buntaro, Mariko, Yabu, and Ishido are very non-Japanese a times - too expressive, animated, emotional, and so forth.