Thank you so much for this insight. I had a very demoralizing lesson last night from a bad trainer. My horse has only been in dressage training for one year and is just now able to correctly carry himself after a significant warm up. It was comforting to hear that it takes 2 years of training to get him to a point where he can carry himself and be collected. That was my intuition all along and I absolutely hate it when bad trainers try to hurry things along. Thank you for this video.
Thank you this is so needed. Dressage has been ruined by by greedy and abusive trainers and judges that are placing bad form and until the trainers & judges change I’m afraid the damage being done to these beautiful horses will continue.
I am wondering if it's not so much the judges as it is the system of judging that is the culprit. Judging is pretty technical, and maybe not enough marks are currently being deducted for certain things at the moment. And then of course people want to get their horses up to Grand Prix as early as possible so some take shortcuts... And while the scales of training appear to weigh heavily as anything at the lower levels, they seem to matter less at the top. So if that is the case, people are going to be "economical" with their tests, and shape their riding to earn maximum marks - not necessarily the maximum quality. For example, I am wondering if the prevalence of very horizontal piaffes over the classical "sit" is because it may be easier to transition between passage and piaffe with less "sit", giving a higher chance of earning more marks overall than pulling off a perfect piaffe that has a bigger chance of a stuttered transition? That said, I am having a hard time understanding why 10s are so often given to very horizontal looking piaffes. I get that some horses naturally find sitting into the ultimate collection difficult. But if a horse naturally finds it harder to, for instance, extend his trot, he will be marked lower than the horse that can produce a more expressive extended trot. This issue seems so uniform among many competitions, and surely not all judges are simply wowed by big names. I wonder how much has to do with the system. And potentially even influential advocacy within that system?
i have just recently realised that as complicated as horses can be a degree in psychology is necessary to deal with the tsunami of narcissists you find on riding yards ,in comparison horses are easy ,there always seems to be a lack of understanding of the difficulty of perfecting you and your horse s ability ,and never a shortage of people eager to give negative feed back ,being surrounded by people like that can actually hold you and your horse back as it becomes dishartening instead of challenging ,as long as your horse is healthy do you best and have fun ,and seek teachers that build on what you are good at and above all know how to teach ,its so important
I am so glad that you added my favorite trainer. He is easy to understand. I've been following Will Faeber for a year now and I've learned so much. I call Will my long distance trainer... Art2Ride you folks are the best..
@@Kateyangyuqing this is such an old post. I've been doing art2ride for a while now and it has changed the way I train my horses no tension in riding at all. He now has a Facebook page Art2ride fans and followers.
This is a great video I am all for stretching over the back, if you watch his video’s on fb he doesn’t really bring the horse up from the stretch very often and there is a lot of leaning way back in the saddle and meshing with the reins, I don’t follow him any more 😬
Yes so often some trainers want to rush the process and if you have a good trainer they will advise you this is a life long journey Every horse is different. Each has their own physical strengths and weaknesses. They are not one size fits all. It takes time and patience and understanding
To begin with, I'm not sure this video adequately differentiates "bringing the back up" with "development of the topline" and would like to see a video that addresses the differences. Also, while I appreciate all the good points brought up in this video, lowering the hind end and bringing the horses weight back onto the hind end is barely mentioned and it is a critical to collection and involves other biomechanics that need to be activated in order to "bring the back up". Bending the hind legs appropriately has to happen, as an example. Tell us how to get the horse to bend hind legs and bring the hind end down! I worry that people will not get the whole picture nor truly understand that collection is the bringing together or "collection" of factors involving the whole horse. I appreciate that this trainer is trying to improve the horse and it's ability to carry our weight and do agree with other videos he has which discuss topline development. But there could be negative affects of bringing the back up such as raising the croup and putting too much weight on the forehand, flattening of the lumbar region and rotation of the pelvis putting unnecessary stress on hip joints and stifles, unless the importance of other factors that make up the bigger picture are emphasized too. In conclusion, bringing the back up is one part of the total picture.
Well, when I saw this video I also had several doubts! I was taught that the hind ends of the horse should be "under him" and by that, engaging the horse. The video basically says the opposite of that, says that engaging the hind ends of a horse consists of lifting is hind ends and consequently the back. When I learned that the right thing is to raise your back and lower the hind ends. I am so confused, even tho it still makes more sense to actually put the horse's hind end down, and its back up, and obviously on the bit, making that pretty frame. I don't speak english vert well sory :/
He is 100% right, people wants to today what the horse is able to do in 1 year if the horse doesn't have correct foundation his body won't be able to do it FOOL STOP! is not that he DOESN'T WON'T, for the horse to use its body correctly, is much easier but he needs the time!. (If the horse is not working correctly you can see in the book "Healing Horses the Classical Way" what will happen to the horse).
Hi Ruby, you have to learn to feel it. How much weight will be on the forehand is influenced by head carriage but much more by the activity of the hindlegs. If you cannot feel yet how active the hind is, you will need someone on the ground first to help you feel it. It is a fundamentally different feeling if the back is swinging or not.
1. Check something doesnt hurt. 2. FORWARD, FORWARD, FORWARD! More forward you go, harder for the horse. And when he is working he will seek down :). Legs are the key! Good luck :D!!
Ok I did not get some stuff 😢 What exacly causes a hollow back? And why when we are at the stage that we can bring the horses head up and make them use their back more, their back wont be hollow? Is that because of the strenght we've given the horse to have his back on the right "place"? I was thought completely the wrong way on getting a horse on the bit and I am strugling so so much! If someone can help me
I wish everyone would watch this video. The more I learn the more it cringes me when people get on and immediately crank their horses head down. I hate it! Ive instilled it in my 13 year old daughters brain to allow your horse to stretch for 10 to 15 minutes before asking anything, whether shes doing flatwork or jumping. I wish I had known all this when i was younger but didnt have lessons and no internet, not like today. My pony has improved so much from learning off different trainers online and i hate to say it but there is no real life instructor ive had that has ever taught me things like this. The last one told me to push down in the saddle as much as I can as though im squishing a table! And to pull the rains and push down really hard! What happened to push the horse to the outside rein and sit light and dont use force ???
Would pole work help? The horse had to lower they’re head to see where they’re going, I tried this though and my horse ignored the poles and continued trotting and she tripped over them and still payed no attention. I try circles because they have to lower they’re head when you do a tighter circle but what else could I do?
I have a horse who struggled with lifting his back and now we've gotten orders to try a equiband from a physiotherapist. Wonderful way to naturally engage your horses core and make a very unfocused horse more aware of you and what you're doing. I'd recommend checking with a veterinarian if they think equiband could help (:
On any horse it is better to rise in the trot and it is vital on a young horse. Sitting trot should not be done on horses under five or six. It is the single one thing that will give a young horse a sore back and it is not necessary either.
Hallow back can also be caused by to much riding, unfitted tack, and bad breeding. You should also have your horse looked at by a veterinarian when you see a horse with a hallow back.
@@ellie-pm9hp Not if your tack doesn't fit. If you have a saddle that sits and pushes on the back there's no way in hell the horse is gonna lift it's back. If it's locked in the jaw because of a tight bridle it can't relax completly and probably won't lift it's back. There's many factors going into it.
We have over 600 videos. You will need to take a look around. We have videos that cover this from Training level to Grand Prix, and instructors that cover it from unknowns to Charlotte Dujardin. You may want to start with playlists according to your riding level then go from there.
ArttoRide, the channel behind the man in this video, has detailed instruction on getting the horse to stretch. Keyword search on the channel, "work in hand" and "lunging", to start.
This sounds like great advice but seems overly simplified. I have an ex racehorse who the more forward I work him the higher his head goes as he gets excited, not relaxed.
Plenty of transitions, make him think and contain all of that energy. Walk to trot, trot to walk, canter to walk, walk to canter, etc. Pole work helps too. When you have a horse that just wants to go you have to get them thinking harder
@@madelinebarry9955 No. I had an OTTB who was totally upside down the faster he went and it wasn't countless transitions and poles that finally chilled him out. I got off his back and started foundational work from the ground. First get him working over his back with work in hand and lunging at the walk before moving up in gaits and definitely before riding. So much foundational muscle development and understanding needs to happen before we even ride. Go to ArttoRide channel and look up lunging and work in hand on their channel search. This literally saved my OTTB life.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you so much for this insight. I had a very demoralizing lesson last night from a bad trainer. My horse has only been in dressage training for one year and is just now able to correctly carry himself after a significant warm up. It was comforting to hear that it takes 2 years of training to get him to a point where he can carry himself and be collected. That was my intuition all along and I absolutely hate it when bad trainers try to hurry things along. Thank you for this video.
Sometimes the rider knows best ;)
Sorry to hear your terrible experience. Good on you for listening to your instinct though!
Thank you this is so needed. Dressage has been ruined by by greedy and abusive trainers and judges that are placing bad form and until the trainers & judges change I’m afraid the damage being done to these beautiful horses will continue.
I am wondering if it's not so much the judges as it is the system of judging that is the culprit. Judging is pretty technical, and maybe not enough marks are currently being deducted for certain things at the moment. And then of course people want to get their horses up to Grand Prix as early as possible so some take shortcuts... And while the scales of training appear to weigh heavily as anything at the lower levels, they seem to matter less at the top. So if that is the case, people are going to be "economical" with their tests, and shape their riding to earn maximum marks - not necessarily the maximum quality. For example, I am wondering if the prevalence of very horizontal piaffes over the classical "sit" is because it may be easier to transition between passage and piaffe with less "sit", giving a higher chance of earning more marks overall than pulling off a perfect piaffe that has a bigger chance of a stuttered transition? That said, I am having a hard time understanding why 10s are so often given to very horizontal looking piaffes. I get that some horses naturally find sitting into the ultimate collection difficult. But if a horse naturally finds it harder to, for instance, extend his trot, he will be marked lower than the horse that can produce a more expressive extended trot. This issue seems so uniform among many competitions, and surely not all judges are simply wowed by big names. I wonder how much has to do with the system. And potentially even influential advocacy within that system?
i have just recently realised that as complicated as horses can be a degree in psychology is necessary to deal with the tsunami of narcissists you find on riding yards ,in comparison horses are easy ,there always seems to be a lack of understanding of the difficulty of perfecting you and your horse s ability ,and never a shortage of people eager to give negative feed back ,being surrounded by people like that can actually hold you and your horse back as it becomes dishartening instead of challenging ,as long as your horse is healthy do you best and have fun ,and seek teachers that build on what you are good at and above all know how to teach ,its so important
I am so glad that you added my favorite trainer. He is easy to understand. I've been following Will Faeber for a year now and I've learned so much. I call Will my long distance trainer... Art2Ride you folks are the best..
I gotta look him up, I haven't heard of him before but he seems to be pretty spot on with this video.
@@Kateyangyuqing this is such an old post. I've been doing art2ride for a while now and it has changed the way I train my horses no tension in riding at all. He now has a Facebook page Art2ride fans and followers.
This is a great video I am all for stretching over the back, if you watch his video’s on fb he doesn’t really bring the horse up from the stretch very often and there is a lot of leaning way back in the saddle and meshing with the reins, I don’t follow him any more 😬
Thank you for this - it was super helpful. I have just begun training my horse and this gives me a good timescale by which to focus upon.
Yes so often some trainers want to rush the process and if you have a good trainer they will advise you this is a life long journey Every horse is different. Each has their own physical strengths and weaknesses. They are not one size fits all. It takes time and patience and understanding
This is an excellent explanation,but you do have to be patient and give the horse time for his back to strengthen,as he says.
I already know all of these, but I just love to watch these kinds of videos♥️ 👍🏻
Haha I love the cheesiness of this video production, but great information!
Wow this was really helpful. Thank you so much.
2:00 thanks for this video. I could find something from this video as a physical therapist. ;)
Very good video, lots of positive insight to take away.
how do we differentiate between the horse's head is down/stretching and they are raising/engaging their back vs. the horse in on their forehand?
Very useful video, thank you. That looks like NZ countryside in the background.
To begin with, I'm not sure this video adequately differentiates "bringing the back up" with "development of the topline" and would like to see a video that addresses the differences.
Also, while I appreciate all the good points brought up in this video, lowering the hind end and bringing the horses weight back onto the hind end is barely mentioned and it is a critical to collection and involves other biomechanics that need to be activated in order to "bring the back up". Bending the hind legs appropriately has to happen, as an example. Tell us how to get the horse to bend hind legs and bring the hind end down! I worry that people will not get the whole picture nor truly understand that collection is the bringing together or "collection" of factors involving the whole horse.
I appreciate that this trainer is trying to improve the horse and it's ability to carry our weight and do agree with other videos he has which discuss topline development. But there could be negative affects of bringing the back up such as raising the croup and putting too much weight on the forehand, flattening of the lumbar region and rotation of the pelvis putting unnecessary stress on hip joints and stifles, unless the importance of other factors that make up the bigger picture are emphasized too. In conclusion, bringing the back up is one part of the total picture.
Well, when I saw this video I also had several doubts! I was taught that the hind ends of the horse should be "under him" and by that, engaging the horse. The video basically says the opposite of that, says that engaging the hind ends of a horse consists of lifting is hind ends and consequently the back. When I learned that the right thing is to raise your back and lower the hind ends. I am so confused, even tho it still makes more sense to actually put the horse's hind end down, and its back up, and obviously on the bit, making that pretty frame. I don't speak english vert well sory :/
He is 100% right, people wants to today what the horse is able to do in 1 year if the horse doesn't have correct foundation his body won't be able to do it FOOL STOP! is not that he DOESN'T WON'T, for the horse to use its body correctly, is much easier but he needs the time!. (If the horse is not working correctly you can see in the book "Healing Horses the Classical Way" what will happen to the horse).
Interesting, but how can you know if the horse is stretching when his head is low or just moves on the forehand and doesn't like to use his hind legs?
Hi Ruby, you have to learn to feel it. How much weight will be on the forehand is influenced by head carriage but much more by the activity of the hindlegs. If you cannot feel yet how active the hind is, you will need someone on the ground first to help you feel it. It is a fundamentally different feeling if the back is swinging or not.
My boss in Germany said to me that the horse can touch his nose to the ground and if the horse is in a true working trot he is good.
Hi. Can you please give me some pointers on how I can teach my horse to stretch down. He is very stubborn. ☺
1. Check something doesnt hurt.
2. FORWARD, FORWARD, FORWARD! More forward you go, harder for the horse. And when he is working he will seek down :). Legs are the key!
Good luck :D!!
Check out Will Faeber's youtube channel: Art2Ride. He has HUNDREDS of videos to guide you on the stretch.
Wow thanks is for this video. You explained it really well and simple
Ok I did not get some stuff 😢 What exacly causes a hollow back? And why when we are at the stage that we can bring the horses head up and make them use their back more, their back wont be hollow? Is that because of the strenght we've given the horse to have his back on the right "place"? I was thought completely the wrong way on getting a horse on the bit and I am strugling so so much! If someone can help me
and what about the insed leg to outside rein contact on getting to the higher lever stage? Where does it fit?
great video!!! so much explanation!!!
I wish everyone would watch this video. The more I learn the more it cringes me when people get on and immediately crank their horses head down. I hate it! Ive instilled it in my 13 year old daughters brain to allow your horse to stretch for 10 to 15 minutes before asking anything, whether shes doing flatwork or jumping. I wish I had known all this when i was younger but didnt have lessons and no internet, not like today. My pony has improved so much from learning off different trainers online and i hate to say it but there is no real life instructor ive had that has ever taught me things like this. The last one told me to push down in the saddle as much as I can as though im squishing a table! And to pull the rains and push down really hard! What happened to push the horse to the outside rein and sit light and dont use force ???
Would pole work help? The horse had to lower they’re head to see where they’re going, I tried this though and my horse ignored the poles and continued trotting and she tripped over them and still payed no attention. I try circles because they have to lower they’re head when you do a tighter circle but what else could I do?
Go to ArttoRide channel and keyword search for "work in hand" and "lunging" which is where developing stretch and top line begins.
I have a horse who struggled with lifting his back and now we've gotten orders to try a equiband from a physiotherapist. Wonderful way to naturally engage your horses core and make a very unfocused horse more aware of you and what you're doing. I'd recommend checking with a veterinarian if they think equiband could help (:
Hey! @tashequestrian here! Can you open this video for adding subtitles? Or maybe I can send to you in Portuguese!
On any horse it is better to rise in the trot and it is vital on a young horse. Sitting trot should not be done on horses under five or six. It is the single one thing that will give a young horse a sore back and it is not necessary either.
Excellent!
Hallow back can also be caused by to much riding, unfitted tack, and bad breeding. You should also have your horse looked at by a veterinarian when you see a horse with a hallow back.
xnorsruym that’s not true, a hollow back can easily be fixed by corrected riding
@@ellie-pm9hp Not if your tack doesn't fit. If you have a saddle that sits and pushes on the back there's no way in hell the horse is gonna lift it's back. If it's locked in the jaw because of a tight bridle it can't relax completly and probably won't lift it's back. There's many factors going into it.
You mean “hollow”? But I am Mexican, what do I know?
but there is no direction to help the person get the horse to do this...
We have plenty of other videos to help you with that.
DressageHub links?
We have over 600 videos. You will need to take a look around. We have videos that cover this from Training level to Grand Prix, and instructors that cover it from unknowns to Charlotte Dujardin. You may want to start with playlists according to your riding level then go from there.
thank you!
ArttoRide, the channel behind the man in this video, has detailed instruction on getting the horse to stretch. Keyword search on the channel, "work in hand" and "lunging", to start.
This sounds like great advice but seems overly simplified. I have an ex racehorse who the more forward I work him the higher his head goes as he gets excited, not relaxed.
Plenty of transitions, make him think and contain all of that energy. Walk to trot, trot to walk, canter to walk, walk to canter, etc. Pole work helps too. When you have a horse that just wants to go you have to get them thinking harder
@@madelinebarry9955 No. I had an OTTB who was totally upside down the faster he went and it wasn't countless transitions and poles that finally chilled him out. I got off his back and started foundational work from the ground. First get him working over his back with work in hand and lunging at the walk before moving up in gaits and definitely before riding. So much foundational muscle development and understanding needs to happen before we even ride. Go to ArttoRide channel and look up lunging and work in hand on their channel search. This literally saved my OTTB life.
Rollkur and draw reins = BAD riding. End of. Don’t care who you think you are in the game!
a horse CANNOT lift it's back. it is rigid. it can lift it's shoulders and its hindquarters but not the back