My wife passed her ICA with Southern two weeks ago (a sort of final exam for train drivers after 18 months of training). According to her examiner, she was the last person to pass out on 313 stock!
Yup, you know you are old when you remember something super new and ultra groovy coming into service - and then, in what seems the twinkling of an eye, you learn it is being retired. Still, there are many better things to be sentimental about than machinery!
From Drayton Park to Moorgate, the trains that the 313's replaced were the 1938 Stock. It's interesting that the last few examples of those (on the Isle of Wight) made it to within 3 and a half years of the withdrawal of the 313's!!
As a signaller, I can confirm that the 313s overtook 442s as the class of train that has "caught fire" the most when I've been on duty. I won't be sending flowers.
I doubt the retirement of some signallers would be similarly marked! Nowadays, do you have to stop a train to tell the driver his/her "train has caught fire", or do you use GSM-R? Problem with the latter is that a known trouble-causer might never know precisely where the train would stop, wouldn't you agree?
The original Southern Region prototypes were initially meant to be given the 4PER epithet, Prototype Electro Rheostatic, but at the behest of the marketing REMFs this was change to the "snazzier" sounding PEP.
My memories of SR EMU's goes back to the slam door variety, and I loved it when the coaches would be refurbished, a great smell an comfortable seats, those old coaches which had nets for you to put your stuff in, above the seats.
I remember being amazed when my first 313 pulled into Surbiton in '77 or so. The push button sliding doors seemed straight out of Star Trek, and the ride was smooth as silk compared to the slam-doors.
I live in Brighton and use the Coastway services where there are lot of close together small stations like Aldrington Halt and Southwick. When they were introduced what I immediately noticed was how well these trains accelerated compared to the Electrostars. Also they had brilliant cycle stowages. I often referred to them as tube trains, little did I realise how close to the truth I was !
Took my son down to Seaford the other week for one last trip on the 313's, we had 313201 on the return journey so our last trip on a 313 was on the first unit. A fitting end.
As someone who grew up with stylish South Suburban class 415 (4EPB) EMUs, I frankly thought these units looked hideous. I needed to say that. I apologise for my forthrightness.
I was involved as an engineer with the 313 on Northern City Line in mid 00’s. We were quite proud that Hornsey managed to make these some of the most reliable EMUs on the network-partly due to the dedication of the guy who overhauled the Cam changer on the units something pioneered at Hornsey.
@@derektaylor2941 the “Cam” system was a electro mechanical device for applying different steps of power. In modern electric traction this is done with electronics but on a 313 is done by physically bringing in various stages of power requirement. This device has to be set up correctly and is the heart of the control system. Hornsey was fortunate to have one individual dedicated to overhauling these units.
@@sanspareil3018 There's nothing so heroic as the person who is dedicated to maintaining something properly. They didn't build it, there's not much in the way of thanks for maintaining it, and if they stop doing it then, at least for a while, no one cares or notices. A good maintainer is always an unsung hero. That individual at Hornsey deserves a Royal Honour! If anyone wants an idea of how important maintenance is to reliability, one can look no further than the Japanese train system. An awful lot of manpower goes on maintenance, and on checking whether maintenance is needed; they don't wait for things to break, they anticipate that happening. If you do enough maintenance, you never *have* to do maintenance. I don't know how often our track measurement trains are used, but over there they're in full time use and have their own dedicated following of train spotters.
I am pleased to say that the guy concerned was recognised for an industry award. I couldnt agree with you more about maintenance activity. I spent nearly 50 years working in train maintenance at various locations throughout the UK and at various levels but the day to day stuff which the industry and in the case of railway depots the ability to absorb problems as if they never happened! Often the only measure recognised is if one of your trains failed to get off depot on a particular day. I wrote a book on these sort of experiences!
@@derektaylor2941 I guess I'm a generation (or at least a decade) earlier than you and for me it happened the other way round: destined for a career in buses (with the NBC) but that went out of the window with deregulation and privatisation - not helped by the collapse of National Welsh - and I ended up on BR instead. I definitely got the better end of it; the thought of working in management for an organisation like First Bus or Stagecoach (based on what I've seen of how they treated their railway managers, and how many left through stress, burnout, bullying or worse) means I'm more than happy to be a train driver who can book off duty and forget about work entirely until my next duty yet still have a salary that is equivalent to (or possibly better than) that I would expect as a bus industry manager.
Ahh, 4-PEPs, I remember their introduction. At the time, I hated the sliding doors that prevented me opening the door before stopping to get a run at barrier!
When they introduced the Electrostar on the Brighton to Seaford they encountered a slight problem. If there were two trains on the Lewes to Seaford leg, they had a tendency to draw more current that the equipment could supply...and they'd trip the electrics leaving two trains stuck...somewhere. (possibly when the tracks were wet?? Maybe need somebody with more technical knowledge). After this had happened a few times (so we were told) they decided that introducing the 313s on the line was the answer. And as you point out, Jago, people were not happy. Refurbished or not, we had seen the future, used the future and now we were being relegated to "ancient" stock. We were promised that this was only a temporary measure but its been a long time being temporary. Occassionally, usually late (or very late) services would still be run by an electrostar... I've now moved away from the area (nice to see it again in your video) but I imagine passengers may feel they are moving back into the 21st Century again. Unless they revert to steam ;-))
I think stories are getting muddied here... the 377s can't work as 8 cars to Seaford without a "notch 2 restriction", meaning they can't pull full beans. This is because of the design of electrification on the Seaford single line. Wasn't a problem until they opened the football stadium and wanted to run 8 cars to Seaford. They run them, but the drivers have to remember to drive differently!
When Seaford still had a bay and a loop there was an afternoon turn where you sat in 1 while a train came into 2 then changed ends and left again. ( 2 is the only platform left)when the other unit was accelerating away from Seaford uphill to bishopstone you could take full power with the brakes hard on and overload the branch and trip the substation. Only took a moment. The other driver would now be coasting up hill cursing you as his line flag showed OFF It was even better if you did it twice.
These temporary allocations of rolling stock can be seen as relative in a way. But baffling as it was for Southern to acquire a handful of these 313's for Coastway services, probably the most exasperating "temporary" allocation of rolling stock was the decision to allow the infamous Pacer trains on to the rail network, which were intended to be in service for at most a decade, were only finally retired in 2021. The North West of England, including where I was at University from 2017-21, Bolton, were lumbered with the largest allocation of these trains. I know some people love them, but the fact that they were a bus body fitted to a Freight Wagon chassis (which included as basic 4 wheel layout, with no articulation) meant that it produced a very lively ride and became a symbol of under investment in the North West. It was more just the ride though, in 1999, a Pacer (mercifully empty) was involved in a collision with a Virgin Trains service, headed by a Class 87. Needless to say, the Pacer didn't fare well in the collision, the displacement of the Pacer that was hit by the Class 87 was ~3M which is 3 times the displacement allowed for building new types of rolling stock
@@wraithcadmus As someone who has had to use them to travel to and from university, yes, they get old quite fast, even if you're nostalgic for them like me.
From the 1960s, when I travelled to secondary school by train from Lancing to Durrington, the coastal line out of Brighton has relied to a large degree on elderly EMUs eking out their final years before withdrawal, from BILs and HALs then CORs, HAPs, CAPs, CIGs, VEPs and finally the 313s. As you say, the Electrostars are the only new units that I can remember being used. Thanks for a great video that brought back the memories!
Desiro City was on the old USA Network at 1130p Eastern time. I giggled when I heard that people were upset that some trains were 30 years old. I like to watch the live cam located at the Springfield, Mass, train station. One of the services there is a train down to New Haven, Conn, where passengers can connect to trains to New York City. One of the sets that covers that service is made up of a GE Genesis Diesel-electric locomotive, an Amfleet coach, and a Metroliner cab-control coach. The locomotive was built ~30 years ago, the coach was built >40 years ago, an the cab-control coach was ordered in *1966* as part of a demonstration project (constructed some time in the following couple years years). Sure, the seats have been reupholstered and the glass replaced but ... yeah ... I giggled.
It’s not that unusual to find locomotives from the 1950s still in normal service! Via Rail has problems with even more ancient rolling stock than Amtrak, as well.
In Chicago, we have F40PHs built in the early 80s toting around Budd bilevel coaches built in the late 50s. Sure, they've been rebuilt multiple times, and they still run well enough. I giggled a bit when, during one of my weekends at the Illinois Railway Museum, I passed the diesel shop and wondered "When did we get an SD50?" It's weird to see something that's a few months younger than you as a museum piece.
@@andrewreynolds4949 This doesn't make it right. I was amazed to see that the *1955* VIA Budd stock passed whatever inspection they were put through. As bad as Amtrak is, VIA is worse.
@@SynchroScore I rode the UP-West line when I lived there. Metra is smart enough to be replacing the oldest relics with new stock. Plenty of brand new BiLevels when I was still riding before 2006 (already 17 years ago!) and they've added more since as well as more new motive power. Amtrak has at least ordered new Siemens stock but not enough sets and no plan for replacing the SuperLiners.
@@plaws0 I grew up on the Burlington with Cascade Green E9s running around. The Budd cars were built for the Burlington and a number are still in service, some with _BURLINGTON_ painted onto the old letterboards. The F40s actually date back to 1977, with some of the earliest still running.
I like them. I first travelled on one from New Southgate to Moorgate- much better than the former disconnected Northern City service of the Underground. The fact that have lasted so long is a tribute to BREL and the fact that they are a fairly simple electric train- they weren't held up in service with software problems.
They're very reminiscent of the 314s that ran on the Glasgow commuter lines until a few years ago. That electronic clicking in the station when idling at 4:45... that's one of the sounds of my childhood.
I remember the 313s on the Watford DC local line. They were an improvement on the old slam-door stock, but I wasn't sorry when they were replaced by the 378s. I was amazed when they went south rather to the scrapyard.
Agreed, in the mid 80s finally having corridors and sliding doors that didn't have the cell like bars on the windows was a vast improvement on the DC lines on the 501s. Another interesting thing was they used to make use of the crossover at Watford Jn between the DC lines and the down fast. They'd arrive up from the direction of the High St on DC switch onto the WCML raise the pan and disappear off usually back south across onto the up slow. I think the crossover has gone now.
I think you mean that the 313s were the first second generation British Rail emus , because the first generation was built to replace pre war emus on the Southern and London Midland regions. Remember seeing them on the lines out of Kings Cross and they looked futuristic. Their styling has aged well, and it's hard to believe that they are gone.
No; first generation ones replaced some (but not all) Southern and LM ones, but also included 750v DC stock for Kent Coast, Bournemouth, etc, 1500v DC for Shenfield - Southend, and all of the AC stock built before the 310s. 310s were sort of "in-betweenies" = first generation electrics with integral bodies (based no Mk IIs)
Two things I liked about the old slam doors. There was sometimes a freight carriage, with a fold down seat for the guard. People put bikes in there. Also, you could open a window and stare at life passing by. Apart from that, going from Clapham Junction to Waterloo (and thence onward to Bank) they were dreadful, packed with commuters looking glum
@@JagoHazzard you mentioned people complained about PEP style seats being uncomfortable compared to slam door seats... Now people complain about "ironing boards" being uncomfortable compared to PEP seats! How times change!
Very fond memories of the 313 on the Northern City route. Always remember lights turning off at Drayton Park as the pantograph went up or down. Fantastic noises too as they set off!
I’m feeling a bit old I was 8 when the wires started to go up on the ECML suburban sections out of Kings Cross and Northern City section was being added and then the introduction of the new electric service displacing our clapped out DMU’s , we then got the 312’s going as far as Royston, loco hauling was still king for others longer suburban services mainly with class 31’s and occasional a 25. Used to love getting a 2 unit 6 car as back then the middle pair of cab doors would open and you could stand in the vestibule and watch the speed through the glass panel in the drivers door. In 1976 these a revolution for us and they really don’t owe anyone a penny with the amount of service they have performed but there time has come
Born in 1953, in the 70's I lived in Gillingham, Kent. I loved the old non-gangway compartment EMU's that still turned up. My mates & I used to take the train to Strood & then walk 3 miles over a lock, footpaths & a beach to visit a lovely pub in Upnor.
I have rather a soft spot for the 313s and am disappointed I never got to see them on the south coast. The similar 507 / 8 units are still going for a little while so I feel a trip to Chester is due soon!
I'm not sure if I've ever been on a 313 but I have seen plenty. Usually from an outer suburban Stevenage to King's Cross train passing an inner suburban 313 that was probably going from Welwyn GC to Moorgate.
I used to dislike Class 313s entirely until I rode one down the Northern City Line in October 2018 for the first time, then suddenly I didn't think they were that bad. Defo agree that they've lived far beyond their time, but they had that charm about them which we enthusiasts appreciate. Decent design, lovely sounding motors, and the camshaft driving system, my favourite. 😍 Great video as always 😊
I never got a chance to go on one, but as a Glaswegian I was very fond of the 314s which were great for short runs like the Cathcart Circle and Paisley Canal lines.
It’s also one of the most beautiful routes in the game. And the weird thing is that the Brighton station is better on the Brighton-Seaford branch then the London Commuter
I liked them - in their original livery they looked quite stylish, with their 'swoop' of yellow around the front end. There were a number of spin-offs - the 314s, 315s, 507s, 508s, according to whether they had 3 or 4 cars per set, and whether they took power from the overhead or the 3rd rail.
I remember these coming in when I was going to school from Richmond to Kew Gardens in the late 70s. They were so cool, you pushed a button and the doors slid open!
OH MY GOD I REMEMBER THESE. I was really young when they where removed from service near where I live and southern replaced them with a newer model, but Seeing the interior shots bought so much back to me
Hey Jago! In 2021/22 I was living in Brighton and at Weekends I’d avoid all the thousands of Day trippers in the city by taking the train to Seaford for peace and empty beaches!! I loved the journey and I knew the end was nigh on this rolling stock. I recently took a train from Aachen 🇩🇪 to Spa-Geronstere 🇧🇪, ( where Kaiser Wilhelm II was abdicated) and these trains date from 1966 and look absolutely knackered!! These alone are worth the experience!
The Belgian two car Emu sets built over a quarter century from 1950s to early 70s were ubiquitous for a long time. A small number of the later built sets were refurbished a few years ago. I travelled on one on a stopping service between Liege and Verviers last year, the conductor was surprised that I chose this train in preference to the modern fast train. Don't tell everybody about the peace in Seaford or it will be overrun also.
@@thomasburke2683 yes indeed Thomas! There was a Royal Palace you can see from Verviers towards Aachen that’s absolutely stunning but does not show up on Google maps. These Trains look so dated when they pull into Aachen Vs The Plush DB Fleets. I can’t see the day trippers in Seaford somehow!!
Goodbye 313s! I have a very odd relationship with the PEPs. I get that for regular commuters, they are basically the bottom of the barrel. But from an enthusiast's perspective, I love their character! My personal favourite sounds of any train I've come across and they just sorta.. look nice! Gonna miss them, personally. :(
@@JagoHazzard I find it interesting that the Bakerloo Line route runs more on Network Rail owned track than TfL owned track and because of this the 1972 stock have also got the TOPS class number of 499/2.
I’m truly sad & angry that these amazing units are going as being 💀 I’m currently feeling really upset & angry because each units from the 70s & 80s are incredible for short journeys & community service. I’ve can’t understand places like Nene Valley, Mid-Norfolk and Nottingham Transport Heritage Centre can preserve a unit and I will be very happy & glad that they are saved. However I’m glad to know that one Class 315 is saved for preservation which is so incredible and this should be the same for the Class 313s too.
@@joelightrailway2362 Electric traction is not popular to preserved because it is not very useful on heritage railways since it has to be mostly loco hauled.
When I got aboard a 313 on an Ore to Brighton service, I remarked to the guard, "I like these old trains". He replied, "From a railman's point of view, these are awful old trains!". I observed that the Electtrostars are stuffy and gave me a headache, whereas the 312 rattled along with plenty of ventilation! The guard said, "The Electrostar is a much better train, but sometimes the Air Conditioning doesn't work, and that's how you got a headache"". I think the 313 looks distinctive in the Southern Livery. Thanks for uploading.
I’m getting quite nostalgic for emus for the recent past, so, talking of preservation, I’m beginning to wish there was a 3rd Rail heritage line. That might not be feasible but it would be nice. So, farewell 313s
@@CitytransportInfoplus Have you *any* idea how much ecological damage is caused by the mining needed to produce batteries on that scale?? Fossil fuels pale into insignificance. Can't believe anyone would suggest this!!
@@TomCro73 Absolute nonsense, you need to find unbiased information sources. Try understanding the truly huge damage that the extraction, refinement and burning of fossil fuel does to our planet, and then look into why people like you read and fall for the lies of the fossil fuel industry. . Soon we will have power-dense and cheap batteries using sodium as the main element - one of the most abundant elements on earth.
Nice video Jago! I first came across the 313's when trainspotting at my nearby local Finsbury Park Station. It might seem a bit "sad" trainspotting nowadays, but in those BR Blue/Grey days there were Deltics, Class 47's, 31's and the odd Class 25, (Of which I had a go driving for my 50th birthday) along with the new kids on the block, The Inter-City 125's, the new Great Northern Electrics, Classes 312 running to Royston and the 313's running out to Hertford. One thing I remember about the 313's was their air suspension which made a "farty" sound whilst standing at the platform along with a distinctive pong like a "farty smell" when new! 😁
Same for me. Never saw a 25 on the Great Northern, but certainly 40s and 46s also mixed it with the 313s. Have a strong memory of seeing a 313 at Kings Cross one afternoon filled with mailbags between the seats, so they weren't just used as passenger trains.
I remember being on one of these from Portsmouth to Brighton and needing the toilet about 1/2 through the trip. I'll never forget that, they never had toilets.
I also took a trip on Thursday 18th, a last chance to ride three of them again and to say a nostalgic farewell. First encountered 313s looking brand new on the GN in 1977 when I was just 12, many memories since then on the Watford DC and NLL as well. The PEPs have served us well, very much a British Rail success story. And despite being a bit run down, they were comfortable to the end. RIP.
I am wanting airfix models of these new passengers with their sliding doors, fluorescent lighting and most of all their plastic seat topped with a cushion.
I remember the 313 being introduced. Initially they did not have opening windows and had a system called "pressure ventilation". They were incredibly hot in the first summer and they had to modify the windows to open. The other odd feature was the doors - there were no buttons initially - you had to pull the doors apart and when you got them about 2 inches open then the power system opened them the rest. That got changed because lots of people could not manage to pull them hard enough.
Non-railway enthusiast accidentally watching this, thinking "wtf - it's a train, it looks just like all the other trains, it just hasn't got a pointy end..."
Their very close cousins, the class 507 & 508’s are slowly being withdrawn on Merseyside. Having grown up with the 507 & 508, I’ll be very sad to see them go 😢
I was glad to see the back of these on the Great Northern line from Welwyn Garden City to Finsbury Park and King's Cross. I didn't have to use them all that often, but I wasn't a happy customer when I did.
I regularly had to take these trains every time I went to visit my grandparents in Worthing. I went up there again only yesterday to stay the night and felt a twinge of sadness when a more modern looking train pulled into Platform 1 at Brighton. They weren't always comfortable and sometimes rather shabby but they did have a certain charm to them.
Ancient (especially if you still had any of the old 4-CORs?) but pretty comfortable, as were most of the Southern Region slam-door trains for longer-distance services (4-CIGs and 4-CEPs) with nice picture windows.
My wife has reminded me. The 40 year old trains have been replaced by new(er) ones. We now have 20 year old 377s. She enjoys the day when Brighton and Hove Albion have a mid-week home game as even newer trains run on the line. By the way, the 313s replaced the Electrostar trains as the latter kept tripping the power supplies due to excessive current draw when they accelerated
Always liked the appearance of the 313 class, so modern compared to the Craven DMUs which they replaced on the inner suburban services out of King's Cross. The outer suburban services were operated by class 312, which was based on the class 310 on Euston services but without the wrap around windscreen of the 310. The 313 was designed for inner suburban locals, not for longer distances. The 314 (Glasgow) and 315 (Liverpool Street locals on Great Eastern mainline) also were Ideal for their short-haul duties. Never blame the rolling stock if management choose to use them inappropriately. They have given great service over four and a half decades.
I liked the 312s and was rather sorry when they disappeared, but the slam doors on them and the 310s were rather archaic compared to modern air door trains.
I loved the sound of these things, especially the pop when driver came of the power but I’m glad to see them gone. No toilets, no space and horribly uncomfortable seats.
I used to travel on a 313’s from Brookmans Park to Moorgate when they were brand new. They replaced a motley collection of Class 31 hauled aging slam door suburban stock and a menagerie of DMU’s (Cravens, Derbys, 101’s etc.) which I used to enjoy travelling on. By comparison 313’s were very modern. They were comparatively quick and gave a smooth ride. If idiot passengers kept didn’t open the windows, they were also quiet and the A/C would keep them cool in summer and the heaters would warm us in the winter.
I love the 313s but I completely understand why people don't (especially on longer trips such as Brighton to Portsmouth). I definitely have an affection due to exposure, these would run behind my nursery at Bowes park and I've lived along the south coast for over a decade now so they've always been a mainstay in my life. I will miss them, especially seeing as fewer and fewer trains have the lovely escalating hum that old electrics do but it is definitely time for them to go. Great vid as always, looking forward to seeing more.
The 313s were a feature of the suburban lines from London Bridge. They were cramped, never looked or felt clean, and the gangway gave the larger persons a challenge to negotiate.
I think this is a testament to how huge a step forward the electrostars were for Southern commuters in the 00s. It was like upgrading an old Nokia to an iPhone and then having it taken away and being given a blackberry instead!
So were all of the EMUs built for the LT&S and Great Eastern, but they weren't classed as dual voltage; similarly, SR DC EMUs could operate on 660v and 750v, and these weren't classed as dual voltage either. These were the first trains which could work of AC and DC in the UK, hence them being seen as the first dual voltage ones to work on BR
@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire Sadly they weren't able to switch between DC and AC, they were built as 1500v DC and heavily converted to run on 6.25kv/25kv AC. I believe this involved moving the drivers cab from the power car to one of the trailers so the power car was then in the middle of the train - if you look at photos of a 306 the sliding doors aren't evenly placed along the passenger saloons.
Fond(ish) memories of riding the 313s from Enfield Chase to Hertford North in the mid 80s. Even then they were a cut above the ancient stock running out of Liverpool Street.
What an outstanding video Jago. Thank you for posting. Being a class 313 fan, i will be sad to see the fine workhorses finish. They have served the Great Northern, Great Eastern, North London line and the East / West Coastway well. Farewell Class 313's
i took these regularly for many years on my commute on the northern city line, back when it was WAGN and I look back on them with great nostalgia (the purple livery I recall as being very fetching). i found the seating in these trains to be exceptionally comfortable-something about its curvature fitted the spine (or at least my spine) very well. i also appreciated the styling. final thought: there was a story I loved, perhaps around 2005, of a commuter on the northern city line who was so frustrated with the lack of room in the carriage that he jumped onto the ledge on the back of the train and travelled into work holding onto handles on the rear. if I recall he was subsequently arrested and charged (understandably), nonetheless there was something very whimsical about it that has stuck with me
I remember a couple of things when Southern first got 313s...my daughter, who was travelling to college form Lewes to Brighton at the time, liked being able to open the windows and a friend who lived at Rodmell sending me a text message asking "WTF are those purple things?" as some went in service still in Silverlink livery. Going back a bit further, I used the GN&C to get to a shop in Essex Road that sold MZ (East German Motorcycle) spares, I certainly took an exhaust pipe on a 313 one time!
When the trains were up the swanny, as happened very frequently on the line into Kings Cross in the early 2010s the 313s had an extra capacity feature… passengers would force open the doors of the unused cabs in the middle of train and ride in the quite sizeable compartments there.
I remember their introduction on Southern. Going from relatively new Electrostars with their air conditioning to something much older without, and the lack of toilets made them especially controversial.
I remember the 313s, or similar derivatives run by Silverlink on the old North London Line between North Woolwich and Richmond in the 90s. What a crush that was, but the charm of the North London Line cancelled the discomfort out. Curiously, the old South Western Trains running from Waterloo, had what looked like a class 313 carriage as either the 2nd or 3rd carriage out of four.
I know nostalgic can be a hell of a emotion, as I was one of many who wasn't too fussed when they was withdrawn from the Watford DC lines (and other over ground lines) as I mainly used the units on the small (ish) branch between the WCML and St Albans which was replaced by 321's, then 319's before finally lately with 350's. move forward to 2016/17 was able to thanks to dovetails Railsim to relive the memories I had of such units in the Silverlink era which kick started my liking for the units once more along with able to visit various points of the de-funk-ed Croxley branch which was also a stomping ground of theirs back in the BR/NSE days so once hearing they was being withdrawn I was going to come hell or high water give them one last ticket to ride before they was gone forever*. managed to get various vids and pictures of them the day before their farewell tour around Lewes. at the end of that day before coming back to Herts had a brief look back at 313209 which was the main one doing the branch that day, was able to give it one last look (and photo) which kinda felt emotional which is odd being its only a machine, but in the end they have earned their retirement
My first encounter with the Class 313's were also during the Silverlink days, on the North London Line too (Before London Overground). Especially at Hackney Central/Dalston Kingsland and my younger self noticed how different they were from the Class 315's. Being dual voltage and all. Also grew up with the ECML Class 313's too. So all around, I had a very "PEP'y" childhood.
I do feel sorry for the 313's: as you mentioned, when they were introduced in the mid-70s they were the bee's knees, but now they are mostly despised and reviled. I speak with feeling, as I grew up in the area within the angle formed by the Hertford Loop and the Great Northern main line (that's the East Coast main line for any youngsters tuning in to this), so they became my local BR service (although when it came to trips into London I mostly used the Piccadilly Line, of course). I think the introduction of the Great Northern Electrics was the most exciting thing railwise in the area since the Victoria Line opened (and everyone who had had to put up with the ageing DMUs in service on the ex-GNR lines previously was very grateful for them). I must admit, though, that their olive and mustard interior décor was never to my taste (even in the 70s) and I found their rather weird seating arrangements inconvenient.
That would have been the very similar looking class 315, which replaced the class 306 units introduced in 1949 - which also had sliding doors and push buttons, although they usually only worked as far as Shenfield.
I used to commute on trains from London that ran to Colchester and Southend in the early 1970's. from Colchester direction to Shenfield then back out towards Southend (2 sides of a triangle I suppose). 'Do not clean soot off the windows' was reasonable 'grafitti/mild abuse' for those days. What happy times!
Merseyrail have just retired 313 s, i enjoyed travelling Them on northern and wirral lines as a child, frequent service to Southport, New Brighton and West Kirkby, a definite part of my idea of going to the seaside when Young😀
I remember them on the North London Line (or Silverlink? ) back in the 1990s they were dirty and badly maintained. On one cold, dark wintry journey the connecting door lock had failed and flapped open and shut to add to the misery.
...remember watching (72/73) PEP 4001 and 4002 (brand new) hauled by a class 45 'Peak' heading south through Peterborough (ECML) on a very gloomy and overcast morning...
I've not ridden the 313s much, but when I did ride them in the rush hour, they were cramped, and hot. Riding them out of rush hour was better, but they still weren't the most comfortable trains. That said, I still thought they were cool, because they had sliding doors and didn't smell too bad (well, the passengers often did, but the trains didn't). At the time (this was the late 80s), my own local line still used slam door EMUs, which were cramped, uncomfortable, smelled bad and were usually either freezing or too hot. Anything better than that seemed really futuristic.
I hadn't realised it at the time, but I had my final 313 journey last year, on the short journey from Lewes to Seaford. I quite liked them, but the unit really felt its age as it wallowed around...
Ours where knackered on the Moorgate Line. Often broke at Drayton Park as they swapped from shoe to pantograph. Comfy though. I can remember when it was WAGN and the trains had a First Class booth!
I was told by many people who worked for Southern Rail that they got them because all the newer trains then running on the coast line were being transferred to the London area because of the Olympics. As someone who is slightly disabled let me tell you they were totally unsuitable for use on the coastway line because of the gap between the train and platform. Brighton in places for me a no no. And who thought it a bright idea to have a train running 50 miles without a toilet. Glad to see them go. The "Blue Train" being the exception. Trains should be designed for ease of use!
i liked how this train added variety to southern's fleet of trains considering there's only 2 class (not counting gx) of trains left in the 377 and the 170 now that the 313, 455 and 456 are no longer in service with southern
Развлечения
My wife passed her ICA with Southern two weeks ago (a sort of final exam for train drivers after 18 months of training). According to her examiner, she was the last person to pass out on 313 stock!
I like the aesthetics of this Class 313, they remind me of metro rolling stock more than the standard two-door coach trains.
Yup, you know you are old when you remember something super new and ultra groovy coming into service - and then, in what seems the twinkling of an eye, you learn it is being retired. Still, there are many better things to be sentimental about than machinery!
From Drayton Park to Moorgate, the trains that the 313's replaced were the 1938 Stock. It's interesting that the last few examples of those (on the Isle of Wight) made it to within 3 and a half years of the withdrawal of the 313's!!
Pacers for me, Sprinters too - in the NE of England here. Seen off the Pacers & now we need rid of the Sprinters.
@@emjackson2289 I'll be sad to see the original T&W Metro units go. They were part of my growing up. Got them home from school every day.
As a signaller, I can confirm that the 313s overtook 442s as the class of train that has "caught fire" the most when I've been on duty.
I won't be sending flowers.
I doubt the retirement of some signallers would be similarly marked!
Nowadays, do you have to stop a train to tell the driver his/her "train has caught fire", or do you use GSM-R? Problem with the latter is that a known trouble-causer might never know precisely where the train would stop, wouldn't you agree?
The original Southern Region prototypes were initially meant to be given the 4PER epithet, Prototype Electro Rheostatic, but at the behest of the marketing REMFs this was change to the "snazzier" sounding PEP.
My memories of SR EMU's goes back to the slam door variety, and I loved it when the coaches would be refurbished, a great smell an comfortable seats, those old coaches which had nets for you to put your stuff in, above the seats.
I remember being amazed when my first 313 pulled into Surbiton in '77 or so. The push button sliding doors seemed straight out of Star Trek, and the ride was smooth as silk compared to the slam-doors.
Being pedantic, that would have been a 508
No, we need more pedantic. Correction is the key to happiness.
I live in Brighton and use the Coastway services where there are lot of close together small stations like Aldrington Halt and Southwick.
When they were introduced what I immediately noticed was how well these trains accelerated compared to the Electrostars. Also they had brilliant cycle stowages.
I often referred to them as tube trains, little did I realise how close to the truth I was !
Took my son down to Seaford the other week for one last trip on the 313's, we had 313201 on the return journey so our last trip on a 313 was on the first unit. A fitting end.
The class 313 has a lovely design.
Apart from the design features of: catching fire, not having toilets and being incredibly noisy.
They sure have a great looking design for suburban.
As someone who grew up with stylish South Suburban class 415 (4EPB) EMUs, I frankly thought these units looked hideous. I needed to say that. I apologise for my forthrightness.
I was involved as an engineer with the 313 on Northern City Line in mid 00’s. We were quite proud that Hornsey managed to make these some of the most reliable EMUs on the network-partly due to the dedication of the guy who overhauled the Cam changer on the units something pioneered at Hornsey.
@@derektaylor2941 the “Cam” system was a electro mechanical device for applying different steps of power. In modern electric traction this is done with electronics but on a 313 is done by physically bringing in various stages of power requirement. This device has to be set up correctly and is the heart of the control system. Hornsey was fortunate to have one individual dedicated to overhauling these units.
@@sanspareil3018 There's nothing so heroic as the person who is dedicated to maintaining something properly. They didn't build it, there's not much in the way of thanks for maintaining it, and if they stop doing it then, at least for a while, no one cares or notices. A good maintainer is always an unsung hero. That individual at Hornsey deserves a Royal Honour!
If anyone wants an idea of how important maintenance is to reliability, one can look no further than the Japanese train system. An awful lot of manpower goes on maintenance, and on checking whether maintenance is needed; they don't wait for things to break, they anticipate that happening. If you do enough maintenance, you never *have* to do maintenance. I don't know how often our track measurement trains are used, but over there they're in full time use and have their own dedicated following of train spotters.
I am pleased to say that the guy concerned was recognised for an industry award. I couldnt agree with you more about maintenance activity. I spent nearly 50 years working in train maintenance at various locations throughout the UK and at various levels but the day to day stuff which the industry and in the case of railway depots the ability to absorb problems as if they never happened! Often the only measure recognised is if one of your trains failed to get off depot on a particular day. I wrote a book on these sort of experiences!
@@derektaylor2941 I guess I'm a generation (or at least a decade) earlier than you and for me it happened the other way round: destined for a career in buses (with the NBC) but that went out of the window with deregulation and privatisation - not helped by the collapse of National Welsh - and I ended up on BR instead.
I definitely got the better end of it; the thought of working in management for an organisation like First Bus or Stagecoach (based on what I've seen of how they treated their railway managers, and how many left through stress, burnout, bullying or worse) means I'm more than happy to be a train driver who can book off duty and forget about work entirely until my next duty yet still have a salary that is equivalent to (or possibly better than) that I would expect as a bus industry manager.
I miss being able to sit at a window seat on the North London line - some nice views.
Ahh, 4-PEPs, I remember their introduction. At the time, I hated the sliding doors that prevented me opening the door before stopping to get a run at barrier!
I’m from Brighton, these trains have been my childhood since my grandfather introduced me to trains in 2012. I will miss them dearly🥲
When they introduced the Electrostar on the Brighton to Seaford they encountered a slight problem. If there were two trains on the Lewes to Seaford leg, they had a tendency to draw more current that the equipment could supply...and they'd trip the electrics leaving two trains stuck...somewhere. (possibly when the tracks were wet?? Maybe need somebody with more technical knowledge). After this had happened a few times (so we were told) they decided that introducing the 313s on the line was the answer. And as you point out, Jago, people were not happy. Refurbished or not, we had seen the future, used the future and now we were being relegated to "ancient" stock. We were promised that this was only a temporary measure but its been a long time being temporary.
Occassionally, usually late (or very late) services would still be run by an electrostar...
I've now moved away from the area (nice to see it again in your video) but I imagine passengers may feel they are moving back into the 21st Century again. Unless they revert to steam ;-))
I think stories are getting muddied here... the 377s can't work as 8 cars to Seaford without a "notch 2 restriction", meaning they can't pull full beans. This is because of the design of electrification on the Seaford single line.
Wasn't a problem until they opened the football stadium and wanted to run 8 cars to Seaford. They run them, but the drivers have to remember to drive differently!
When Seaford still had a bay and a loop there was an afternoon turn where you sat in 1 while a train came into 2 then changed ends and left again. ( 2 is the only platform left)when the other unit was accelerating away from Seaford uphill to bishopstone you could take full power with the brakes hard on and overload the branch and trip the substation. Only took a moment. The other driver would now be coasting up hill cursing you as his line flag showed OFF It was even better if you did it twice.
There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.
Steam, did someone say steam!!!…
These temporary allocations of rolling stock can be seen as relative in a way. But baffling as it was for Southern to acquire a handful of these 313's for Coastway services, probably the most exasperating "temporary" allocation of rolling stock was the decision to allow the infamous Pacer trains on to the rail network, which were intended to be in service for at most a decade, were only finally retired in 2021. The North West of England, including where I was at University from 2017-21, Bolton, were lumbered with the largest allocation of these trains. I know some people love them, but the fact that they were a bus body fitted to a Freight Wagon chassis (which included as basic 4 wheel layout, with no articulation) meant that it produced a very lively ride and became a symbol of under investment in the North West.
It was more just the ride though, in 1999, a Pacer (mercifully empty) was involved in a collision with a Virgin Trains service, headed by a Class 87. Needless to say, the Pacer didn't fare well in the collision, the displacement of the Pacer that was hit by the Class 87 was ~3M which is 3 times the displacement allowed for building new types of rolling stock
I'm from Brighton, and these trains have been essentially all I have known for local journeys to the South Downs. I think they're brilliant. Farewell!
I’m sad that these amazing suburban EMUs are going after today and I’m angry that they are going to be, well, you know. 😢😭
London here, ridden a few for walking trips, where they're charming, but I can see them getting really old really fast if you need them for a commute.
I recall using these on the Northern City line and their roofs were leaking badly.
@@wraithcadmus As someone who has had to use them to travel to and from university, yes, they get old quite fast, even if you're nostalgic for them like me.
I'm also from Brighton and I forgot to go to the station today.
From the 1960s, when I travelled to secondary school by train from Lancing to Durrington, the coastal line out of Brighton has relied to a large degree on elderly EMUs eking out their final years before withdrawal, from BILs and HALs then CORs, HAPs, CAPs, CIGs, VEPs and finally the 313s. As you say, the Electrostars are the only new units that I can remember being used. Thanks for a great video that brought back the memories!
Desiro City was on the old USA Network at 1130p Eastern time.
I giggled when I heard that people were upset that some trains were 30 years old. I like to watch the live cam located at the Springfield, Mass, train station. One of the services there is a train down to New Haven, Conn, where passengers can connect to trains to New York City.
One of the sets that covers that service is made up of a GE Genesis Diesel-electric locomotive, an Amfleet coach, and a Metroliner cab-control coach. The locomotive was built ~30 years ago, the coach was built >40 years ago, an the cab-control coach was ordered in *1966* as part of a demonstration project (constructed some time in the following couple years years).
Sure, the seats have been reupholstered and the glass replaced but ... yeah ... I giggled.
It’s not that unusual to find locomotives from the 1950s still in normal service! Via Rail has problems with even more ancient rolling stock than Amtrak, as well.
In Chicago, we have F40PHs built in the early 80s toting around Budd bilevel coaches built in the late 50s. Sure, they've been rebuilt multiple times, and they still run well enough.
I giggled a bit when, during one of my weekends at the Illinois Railway Museum, I passed the diesel shop and wondered "When did we get an SD50?" It's weird to see something that's a few months younger than you as a museum piece.
@@andrewreynolds4949 This doesn't make it right. I was amazed to see that the *1955* VIA Budd stock passed whatever inspection they were put through. As bad as Amtrak is, VIA is worse.
@@SynchroScore I rode the UP-West line when I lived there. Metra is smart enough to be replacing the oldest relics with new stock. Plenty of brand new BiLevels when I was still riding before 2006 (already 17 years ago!) and they've added more since as well as more new motive power. Amtrak has at least ordered new Siemens stock but not enough sets and no plan for replacing the SuperLiners.
@@plaws0 I grew up on the Burlington with Cascade Green E9s running around. The Budd cars were built for the Burlington and a number are still in service, some with _BURLINGTON_ painted onto the old letterboards. The F40s actually date back to 1977, with some of the earliest still running.
Love the clicking of the air brakes, same noise as 455 and slammers… can make me nod off.
I like them. I first travelled on one from New Southgate to Moorgate- much better than the former disconnected Northern City service of the Underground. The fact that have lasted so long is a tribute to BREL and the fact that they are a fairly simple electric train- they weren't held up in service with software problems.
They're very reminiscent of the 314s that ran on the Glasgow commuter lines until a few years ago. That electronic clicking in the station when idling at 4:45... that's one of the sounds of my childhood.
The 314's were a pure AC version of the 313s but i think they had thyristor packs rather then PCM control......
I remember the 313s on the Watford DC local line. They were an improvement on the old slam-door stock, but I wasn't sorry when they were replaced by the 378s. I was amazed when they went south rather to the scrapyard.
that should read "rather than to"
@@bishwatntlit's easy to edit a post, see the three dots at the top right.
Agreed, in the mid 80s finally having corridors and sliding doors that didn't have the cell like bars on the windows was a vast improvement on the DC lines on the 501s. Another interesting thing was they used to make use of the crossover at Watford Jn between the DC lines and the down fast. They'd arrive up from the direction of the High St on DC switch onto the WCML raise the pan and disappear off usually back south across onto the up slow. I think the crossover has gone now.
@@Flipper-hd6cx I think that was to get to the depot - some were stabled at Willesden, but I think some used to go to Bletchley every so often.
@@hairyairey True - but the last time I edited a reply, I lost some of the linked stuff.
I think you mean that the 313s were the first second generation British Rail emus , because the first generation was built to replace pre war emus on the Southern and London Midland regions.
Remember seeing them on the lines out of Kings Cross and they looked futuristic. Their styling has aged well, and it's hard to believe that they are gone.
No; first generation ones replaced some (but not all) Southern and LM ones, but also included 750v DC stock for Kent Coast, Bournemouth, etc, 1500v DC for Shenfield - Southend, and all of the AC stock built before the 310s. 310s were sort of "in-betweenies" = first generation electrics with integral bodies (based no Mk IIs)
Two things I liked about the old slam doors. There was sometimes a freight carriage, with a fold down seat for the guard. People put bikes in there. Also, you could open a window and stare at life passing by.
Apart from that, going from Clapham Junction to Waterloo (and thence onward to Bank) they were dreadful, packed with commuters looking glum
I liked the seats.
@@JagoHazzard Chance would be a fine thing during the commuter hours.
@@JagoHazzard you mentioned people complained about PEP style seats being uncomfortable compared to slam door seats... Now people complain about "ironing boards" being uncomfortable compared to PEP seats! How times change!
Very fond memories of the 313 on the Northern City route. Always remember lights turning off at Drayton Park as the pantograph went up or down. Fantastic noises too as they set off!
I’m feeling a bit old I was 8 when the wires started to go up on the ECML suburban sections out of Kings Cross and Northern City section was being added and then the introduction of the new electric service displacing our clapped out DMU’s , we then got the 312’s going as far as Royston, loco hauling was still king for others longer suburban services mainly with class 31’s and occasional a 25.
Used to love getting a 2 unit 6 car as back then the middle pair of cab doors would open and you could stand in the vestibule and watch the speed through the glass panel in the drivers door.
In 1976 these a revolution for us and they really don’t owe anyone a penny with the amount of service they have performed but there time has come
"A job in 2000"
Man, for like two years I was thinking Jago was in his late 20's-30s, TIL he's at least in his late 40s.
It was my first job, if that helps.
I’m pretty sure that Jago is almost the same age as me…
Going to miss these.. one in first crapital connect livery was one of the reasons I became interested in the railways.
Born in 1953, in the 70's I lived in Gillingham, Kent. I loved the old non-gangway compartment EMU's that still turned up. My mates & I used to take the train to Strood & then walk 3 miles over a lock, footpaths & a beach to visit a lovely pub in Upnor.
I have rather a soft spot for the 313s and am disappointed I never got to see them on the south coast.
The similar 507 / 8 units are still going for a little while so I feel a trip to Chester is due soon!
I'm not sure if I've ever been on a 313 but I have seen plenty. Usually from an outer suburban Stevenage to King's Cross train passing an inner suburban 313 that was probably going from Welwyn GC to Moorgate.
You'd remember if you had!!!!!
I used to dislike Class 313s entirely until I rode one down the Northern City Line in October 2018 for the first time, then suddenly I didn't think they were that bad. Defo agree that they've lived far beyond their time, but they had that charm about them which we enthusiasts appreciate. Decent design, lovely sounding motors, and the camshaft driving system, my favourite. 😍
Great video as always 😊
I never got a chance to go on one, but as a Glaswegian I was very fond of the 314s which were great for short runs like the Cathcart Circle and Paisley Canal lines.
They will live on in Train Sim World 3 for a long time to come if you want to virtually experience them. At least in appearance and sound.
It’s also one of the most beautiful routes in the game. And the weird thing is that the Brighton station is better on the Brighton-Seaford branch then the London Commuter
Love the sound of those motors, reminiscent of my favourite old 317s through Harlow Town to Cambridge. 😊
I liked them - in their original livery they looked quite stylish, with their 'swoop' of yellow around the front end. There were a number of spin-offs - the 314s, 315s, 507s, 508s, according to whether they had 3 or 4 cars per set, and whether they took power from the overhead or the 3rd rail.
I remember these coming in when I was going to school from Richmond to Kew Gardens in the late 70s. They were so cool, you pushed a button and the doors slid open!
OH MY GOD I REMEMBER THESE.
I was really young when they where removed from service near where I live and southern replaced them with a newer model, but Seeing the interior shots bought so much back to me
I will miss the 313s on the Seaford -Lewes run, but looking forward to what comes next...Roll on September!
Hey Jago! In 2021/22 I was living in Brighton and at Weekends I’d avoid all the thousands of Day trippers in the city by taking the train to Seaford for peace and empty beaches!! I loved the journey and I knew the end was nigh on this rolling stock. I recently took a train from Aachen 🇩🇪 to Spa-Geronstere 🇧🇪, ( where Kaiser Wilhelm II was abdicated) and these trains date from 1966 and look absolutely knackered!! These alone are worth the experience!
The Belgian two car Emu sets built over a quarter century from 1950s to early 70s were ubiquitous for a long time.
A small number of the later built sets were refurbished a few years ago. I travelled on one on a stopping service between Liege and Verviers last year, the conductor was surprised that I chose this train in preference to the modern fast train.
Don't tell everybody about the peace in Seaford or it will be overrun also.
@@thomasburke2683 yes indeed Thomas! There was a Royal Palace you can see from Verviers towards Aachen that’s absolutely stunning but does not show up on Google maps. These Trains look so dated when they pull into Aachen Vs The Plush DB Fleets. I can’t see the day trippers in Seaford somehow!!
Back in the 1980s, there used to be a bit of graffiti on a bridge abutmEnt at Glynde that said "ANARCHY FOR SEAFORD"!
Goodbye 313s! I have a very odd relationship with the PEPs. I get that for regular commuters, they are basically the bottom of the barrel. But from an enthusiast's perspective, I love their character! My personal favourite sounds of any train I've come across and they just sorta.. look nice! Gonna miss them, personally. :(
I think enthusiasts have a different perspective. I love the 1972 stock on the Tube, but normies complain how outdated they are.
@@JagoHazzard that's their problem, not yours.
The same Philistines probably don't appreciate the other finer things in life.
@@JagoHazzard I find it interesting that the Bakerloo Line route runs more on Network Rail owned track than TfL owned track and because of this the 1972 stock have also got the TOPS class number of 499/2.
I’m truly sad & angry that these amazing units are going as being 💀 I’m currently feeling really upset & angry because each units from the 70s & 80s are incredible for short journeys & community service. I’ve can’t understand places like Nene Valley, Mid-Norfolk and Nottingham Transport Heritage Centre can preserve a unit and I will be very happy & glad that they are saved. However I’m glad to know that one Class 315 is saved for preservation which is so incredible and this should be the same for the Class 313s too.
@@joelightrailway2362 Electric traction is not popular to preserved because it is not very useful on heritage railways since it has to be mostly loco hauled.
When I got aboard a 313 on an Ore to Brighton service, I remarked to the guard, "I like these old trains". He replied, "From a railman's point of view, these are awful old trains!". I observed that the Electtrostars are stuffy and gave me a headache, whereas the 312 rattled along with plenty of ventilation! The guard said, "The Electrostar is a much better train, but sometimes the Air Conditioning doesn't work, and that's how you got a headache"". I think the 313 looks distinctive in the Southern Livery. Thanks for uploading.
Gotta say i will miss them but i am glad we got new ones finally
Very nice tribute with some excellent shots of Seaford.
I used to hop on this train as a student, from Brighton to Mouslecoomb. Ahh I miss those days!
I’m getting quite nostalgic for emus for the recent past, so, talking of preservation, I’m beginning to wish there was a 3rd Rail heritage line. That might not be feasible but it would be nice. So, farewell 313s
This could work with dummy (unpowered) third rails and the trains fitted with batteries.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Have you *any* idea how much ecological damage is caused by the mining needed to produce batteries on that scale?? Fossil fuels pale into insignificance. Can't believe anyone would suggest this!!
@@TomCro73 Absolute nonsense, you need to find unbiased information sources. Try understanding the truly huge damage that the extraction, refinement and burning of fossil fuel does to our planet, and then look into why people like you read and fall for the lies of the fossil fuel industry. . Soon we will have power-dense and cheap batteries using sodium as the main element - one of the most abundant elements on earth.
I remember travelling around on Silverlink 313s with my girlfriend about 20 years ago. Happy days.
I will most likely remember them being painted in the Coastway livery, more than any other Southern train today
I used to travel on these all the time when they ran on the Watford Junction to Euston route even before London Overground took over from Silverlink!!
that class 313 was my favourite train, i wish they could have just stayed a little longer 😢
Nice video Jago! I first came across the 313's when trainspotting at my nearby local Finsbury Park Station. It might seem a bit "sad" trainspotting nowadays, but in those BR Blue/Grey days there were Deltics, Class 47's, 31's and the odd Class 25, (Of which I had a go driving for my 50th birthday) along with the new kids on the block, The Inter-City 125's, the new Great Northern Electrics, Classes 312 running to Royston and the 313's running out to Hertford. One thing I remember about the 313's was their air suspension which made a "farty" sound whilst standing at the platform along with a distinctive pong like a "farty smell" when new! 😁
Same for me. Never saw a 25 on the Great Northern, but certainly 40s and 46s also mixed it with the 313s. Have a strong memory of seeing a 313 at Kings Cross one afternoon filled with mailbags between the seats, so they weren't just used as passenger trains.
@@chris8405 Funny thing, I can't remember seeing any Peaks!
A comprehensive and comprehsible gallop through the subject caried on with the usual style. Well done.
I remember being on one of these from Portsmouth to Brighton and needing the toilet about 1/2 through the trip. I'll never forget that, they never had toilets.
I also took a trip on Thursday 18th, a last chance to ride three of them again and to say a nostalgic farewell. First encountered 313s looking brand new on the GN in 1977 when I was just 12, many memories since then on the Watford DC and NLL as well. The PEPs have served us well, very much a British Rail success story. And despite being a bit run down, they were comfortable to the end. RIP.
I am wanting airfix models of these new passengers with their sliding doors, fluorescent lighting and most of all their plastic seat topped with a cushion.
I remember the 313 being introduced. Initially they did not have opening windows and had a system called "pressure ventilation". They were incredibly hot in the first summer and they had to modify the windows to open. The other odd feature was the doors - there were no buttons initially - you had to pull the doors apart and when you got them about 2 inches open then the power system opened them the rest. That got changed because lots of people could not manage to pull them hard enough.
Non-railway enthusiast accidentally watching this, thinking "wtf - it's a train, it looks just like all the other trains, it just hasn't got a pointy end..."
Their very close cousins, the class 507 & 508’s are slowly being withdrawn on Merseyside. Having grown up with the 507 & 508, I’ll be very sad to see them go 😢
I was glad to see the back of these on the Great Northern line from Welwyn Garden City to Finsbury Park and King's Cross. I didn't have to use them all that often, but I wasn't a happy customer when I did.
I regularly had to take these trains every time I went to visit my grandparents in Worthing. I went up there again only yesterday to stay the night and felt a twinge of sadness when a more modern looking train pulled into Platform 1 at Brighton. They weren't always comfortable and sometimes rather shabby but they did have a certain charm to them.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be that's for sure. Thanks for the great video to marking the departure of these trains Jago
I remember Eastbourne trains being ancient in the 1970’s and 1980’s.
Yep!
Ancient (especially if you still had any of the old 4-CORs?) but pretty comfortable, as were most of the Southern Region slam-door trains for longer-distance services (4-CIGs and 4-CEPs) with nice picture windows.
My wife has reminded me. The 40 year old trains have been replaced by new(er) ones. We now have 20 year old 377s. She enjoys the day when Brighton and Hove Albion have a mid-week home game as even newer trains run on the line. By the way, the 313s replaced the Electrostar trains as the latter kept tripping the power supplies due to excessive current draw when they accelerated
In a previous era these would have been sent to the Isle of Wight to operate trains to Freshwater and Newport.
Class 313 is like a younger cousin (sort of) to Polish Railways EN57...
I have to write this: "You're BR Class 313 to my Polish Railways EN57". Heh.
Always liked the appearance of the 313 class, so modern compared to the Craven DMUs which they replaced on the inner suburban services out of King's Cross. The outer suburban services were operated by class 312, which was based on the class 310 on Euston services but without the wrap around windscreen of the 310.
The 313 was designed for inner suburban locals, not for longer distances. The 314 (Glasgow) and 315 (Liverpool Street locals on Great Eastern mainline) also were Ideal for their short-haul duties.
Never blame the rolling stock if management choose to use them inappropriately.
They have given great service over four and a half decades.
I'd love to know what the differences were between the class 313, 314 and 315 units. They all seem to look the same from the outside.
@@robertsmith4830 Class 313 are dual voltage, 314 are 3-car AC only, and 315 are 4-car AC only.
I liked the 312s and was rather sorry when they disappeared, but the slam doors on them and the 310s were rather archaic compared to modern air door trains.
I remember them on the Euston service, and being obliged to use them when the line was blocked by problems on the ac lines.
I loved the sound of these things, especially the pop when driver came of the power but I’m glad to see them gone. No toilets, no space and horribly uncomfortable seats.
I used to travel on a 313’s from Brookmans Park to Moorgate when they were brand new. They replaced a motley collection of Class 31 hauled aging slam door suburban stock and a menagerie of DMU’s (Cravens, Derbys, 101’s etc.) which I used to enjoy travelling on. By comparison 313’s were very modern. They were comparatively quick and gave a smooth ride. If idiot passengers kept didn’t open the windows, they were also quiet and the A/C would keep them cool in summer and the heaters would warm us in the winter.
I love the 313s but I completely understand why people don't (especially on longer trips such as Brighton to Portsmouth).
I definitely have an affection due to exposure, these would run behind my nursery at Bowes park and I've lived along the south coast for over a decade now so they've always been a mainstay in my life. I will miss them, especially seeing as fewer and fewer trains have the lovely escalating hum that old electrics do but it is definitely time for them to go.
Great vid as always, looking forward to seeing more.
The 313s were a feature of the suburban lines from London Bridge. They were cramped, never looked or felt clean, and the gangway gave the larger persons a challenge to negotiate.
wasn't that the 455s?
Thanks!
And thank you!
I think this is a testament to how huge a step forward the electrostars were for Southern commuters in the 00s. It was like upgrading an old Nokia to an iPhone and then having it taken away and being given a blackberry instead!
The 303s were earlier than the 313s and the 303s were dual voltage being able to work off 6.25kv and 25kv.
So were all of the EMUs built for the LT&S and Great Eastern, but they weren't classed as dual voltage; similarly, SR DC EMUs could operate on 660v and 750v, and these weren't classed as dual voltage either. These were the first trains which could work of AC and DC in the UK, hence them being seen as the first dual voltage ones to work on BR
@@grumpyoldman47 The 306s were dual voltage before the 313s since they worked off both 1.5kv DC and 25kv AC as well as 6.25kv.
@@A-Trainspotter-From-Berkshire Sadly they weren't able to switch between DC and AC, they were built as 1500v DC and heavily converted to run on 6.25kv/25kv AC. I believe this involved moving the drivers cab from the power car to one of the trailers so the power car was then in the middle of the train - if you look at photos of a 306 the sliding doors aren't evenly placed along the passenger saloons.
@@harviemilligan1887 Oh, okay I thought they were able to switch between DC and AC on the move.
Fond(ish) memories of riding the 313s from Enfield Chase to Hertford North in the mid 80s. Even then they were a cut above the ancient stock running out of Liverpool Street.
What an outstanding video Jago. Thank you for posting. Being a class 313 fan, i will be sad to see the fine workhorses finish. They have served the Great Northern, Great Eastern, North London line and the East / West Coastway well. Farewell Class 313's
i took these regularly for many years on my commute on the northern city line, back when it was WAGN and I look back on them with great nostalgia (the purple livery I recall as being very fetching). i found the seating in these trains to be exceptionally comfortable-something about its curvature fitted the spine (or at least my spine) very well. i also appreciated the styling. final thought: there was a story I loved, perhaps around 2005, of a commuter on the northern city line who was so frustrated with the lack of room in the carriage that he jumped onto the ledge on the back of the train and travelled into work holding onto handles on the rear. if I recall he was subsequently arrested and charged (understandably), nonetheless there was something very whimsical about it that has stuck with me
I remember a couple of things when Southern first got 313s...my daughter, who was travelling to college form Lewes to Brighton at the time, liked being able to open the windows and a friend who lived at Rodmell sending me a text message asking "WTF are those purple things?" as some went in service still in Silverlink livery. Going back a bit further, I used the GN&C to get to a shop in Essex Road that sold MZ (East German Motorcycle) spares, I certainly took an exhaust pipe on a 313 one time!
When the trains were up the swanny, as happened very frequently on the line into Kings Cross in the early 2010s the 313s had an extra capacity feature… passengers would force open the doors of the unused cabs in the middle of train and ride in the quite sizeable compartments there.
I remember their introduction on Southern. Going from relatively new Electrostars with their air conditioning to something much older without, and the lack of toilets made them especially controversial.
I remember the 313s, or similar derivatives run by Silverlink on the old North London Line between North Woolwich and Richmond in the 90s. What a crush that was, but the charm of the North London Line cancelled the discomfort out.
Curiously, the old South Western Trains running from Waterloo, had what looked like a class 313 carriage as either the 2nd or 3rd carriage out of four.
I remember using one of these when they first came out going from Welwyn Garden City to Moorgate.
I know nostalgic can be a hell of a emotion, as I was one of many who wasn't too fussed when they was withdrawn from the Watford DC lines (and other over ground lines) as I mainly used the units on the small (ish) branch between the WCML and St Albans which was replaced by 321's, then 319's before finally lately with 350's.
move forward to 2016/17 was able to thanks to dovetails Railsim to relive the memories I had of such units in the Silverlink era which kick started my liking for the units once more along with able to visit various points of the de-funk-ed Croxley branch which was also a stomping ground of theirs back in the BR/NSE days
so once hearing they was being withdrawn I was going to come hell or high water give them one last ticket to ride before they was gone forever*. managed to get various vids and pictures of them the day before their farewell tour around Lewes.
at the end of that day before coming back to Herts had a brief look back at 313209 which was the main one doing the branch that day, was able to give it one last look (and photo) which kinda felt emotional which is odd being its only a machine, but in the end they have earned their retirement
I remember riding these on Euston to Watford. Can't say I'm sorry they're gone
My first encounter with the Class 313's were also during the Silverlink days, on the North London Line too (Before London Overground). Especially at Hackney Central/Dalston Kingsland and my younger self noticed how different they were from the Class 315's. Being dual voltage and all. Also grew up with the ECML Class 313's too. So all around, I had a very "PEP'y" childhood.
RIP PEPs :(
I loved these trains, no 2+2, their motors sound nice, etc.
These are my favourite trains
I do feel sorry for the 313's: as you mentioned, when they were introduced in the mid-70s they were the bee's knees, but now they are mostly despised and reviled. I speak with feeling, as I grew up in the area within the angle formed by the Hertford Loop and the Great Northern main line (that's the East Coast main line for any youngsters tuning in to this), so they became my local BR service (although when it came to trips into London I mostly used the Piccadilly Line, of course). I think the introduction of the Great Northern Electrics was the most exciting thing railwise in the area since the Victoria Line opened (and everyone who had had to put up with the ageing DMUs in service on the ex-GNR lines previously was very grateful for them). I must admit, though, that their olive and mustard interior décor was never to my taste (even in the 70s) and I found their rather weird seating arrangements inconvenient.
I remember when they were first introduced on the line from Southend to Liverpool Street. Push button doors were space age after the slam doors.
That would have been the very similar looking class 315, which replaced the class 306 units introduced in 1949 - which also had sliding doors and push buttons, although they usually only worked as far as Shenfield.
I used to commute on trains from London that ran to Colchester and Southend in the early 1970's. from Colchester direction to Shenfield then back out towards Southend (2 sides of a triangle I suppose).
'Do not clean soot off the windows' was reasonable 'grafitti/mild abuse' for those days. What happy times!
Merseyrail have just retired 313 s, i enjoyed travelling Them on northern and wirral lines as a child, frequent service to Southport, New Brighton and West Kirkby, a definite part of my idea of going to the seaside when Young😀
The Scouse cousins of the 313 will be around until next year, as the new trains come on stream, but will be dwindling in number
I remember them on the North London Line (or Silverlink? ) back in the 1990s they were dirty and badly maintained. On one cold, dark wintry journey the connecting door lock had failed and flapped open and shut to add to the misery.
...remember watching (72/73) PEP 4001 and 4002 (brand new) hauled by a class 45 'Peak' heading south through Peterborough (ECML) on a very gloomy and overcast morning...
A historic thing to see!
I've not ridden the 313s much, but when I did ride them in the rush hour, they were cramped, and hot. Riding them out of rush hour was better, but they still weren't the most comfortable trains.
That said, I still thought they were cool, because they had sliding doors and didn't smell too bad (well, the passengers often did, but the trains didn't). At the time (this was the late 80s), my own local line still used slam door EMUs, which were cramped, uncomfortable, smelled bad and were usually either freezing or too hot. Anything better than that seemed really futuristic.
I hadn't realised it at the time, but I had my final 313 journey last year, on the short journey from Lewes to Seaford. I quite liked them, but the unit really felt its age as it wallowed around...
Ours where knackered on the Moorgate Line. Often broke at Drayton Park as they swapped from shoe to pantograph. Comfy though. I can remember when it was WAGN and the trains had a First Class booth!
i remember the class 313 running on great northern and i rode to Moorgate on them
I traveled on these on the North London Line in my teenage years....
I was told by many people who worked for Southern Rail that they got them because all the newer trains then running on the coast line were being transferred to the London area because of the Olympics. As someone who is slightly disabled let me tell you they were totally unsuitable for use on the coastway line because of the gap between the train and platform. Brighton in places for me a no no. And who thought it a bright idea to have a train running 50 miles without a toilet. Glad to see them go. The "Blue Train" being the exception. Trains should be designed for ease of use!
i liked how this train added variety to southern's fleet of trains considering there's only 2 class (not counting gx) of trains left in the 377 and the 170 now that the 313, 455 and 456 are no longer in service with southern
End of an era! Cheers
For those who are wondering, the actual oldest train in Britain that is still in service is the 1972 Stock on the Bakerloo Line