Okay this is a long one haha but I hope it helps you out! I know we have the idea that "Baroque pitch" is A=415Hz, but that doesn't have to be so set. It's the same with "Classical pitch" being around A=32Hz - it doesn't have to be, but that's what we approximate it to based on the extant records we have. If one man in one town in one country wrote about the system of tuning they used in his town during his lifetime, that account is really most relevant to that very specific section of music. What has happened with "Baroque pitch" and "Classical pitch" is that we have standardised them according to the very little information we have - ie we have taken one man's account and applied it generally to all Eighteenth Century music across the whole of Europe. This isn't to say that it's bad to use A=415Hz when playing Bach, but rather that it's not so different to using any other pitch, because we don't have an exact number for it. If you imagine, in the Eighteenth Century, they couldn't tune to the electronic tuners we use today which can 'hear' if we're a couple of cents sharp or flat from a numerical pitch. Instead, it would seem that musicians that played together at that time would tune to the most stable pitched and audible instrument - an organ usually, if the piece required one. But as you can imagine, each organ in each church would go out of tune at different rates and depending on the climate, and they were probably only tuned once in a man's lifetime, which means even if a musician at the time tuned to one specific organ his whole life, he could be tuning his instrument to a whole range of different 'A's. So essentially it isn't necessarily better to tune A=415Hz for this over any other Hz. In fact, it's now thought that for JS Bach, musicians at the time might have played as low as A=399Hz to as high as A=466Hz (in modern lingo, essentially a whole tone on either side of A=440Hz.) In saying that, we don't have an exact idea in terms of a Hz number what soloists in Bach's time tuned to when playing - did they still tune to an organ? Or did the musician tune his instrument according to his own ear?
@giorgio lamborghini but you aren't wrong, it is much more common for a baroque period cello to be tuned to A=415Hz, because this is the standard/standardised "Baroque pitch"
@@Soapiepie1 Mamma mia, you write so much!😂 However, with regard to the differents tuning fork in the various areas over the centuries, I think I am quite informed and what you say is correct, I add, during the Renaissance and in the Baroque several diapasons, even very different, could coexist in the same city. An example for which the tuning fork was not a standardized thing, is the fact that many professional flutists had different spare parts, of various lengths, to adapt to any eventuality.
@@giorgiolamborghini813 Sure, that makes sense! Hope I didn't insult you by explaining things too simply! Imo though, and I see now that this wasn't what you meant in your question originally, but I don't think it has to be a semitone lower because earlier music should be lower in pitch - but again, what you've said seems to make sense (I can't really claim to know so much!) :)
@@Soapiepie1 It was really a pleasure to converse with someone prepared like you on these issues and I apologize if I did a little irony. Greetings from Italy 🙂
As a listener, I don’t enjoy his playing that much like other people do. I find his playing too scratchy. I know he’s using gut strings but I think the sound of baroque cello can sound scratchy but not that scratchy. It should be smoother and elegant. I prefer Lucia Swarts’s interpretation.
The execution of that bowing is the result of research around Italian historical bowing of the 17-18th century. Bylsma himself theorizes that the apparently inconsistent and obscure bowing marks found in the Anna Magdalena manuscript is suggestive of a highly free and varied style of bowing. It would be ignorant to hastily dismiss his bowing choices as nonsense.
I don't quite get it either. A lot of scratchy sounds and many notes out of tune. For most people, I think the Yo Yo Ma recording is a much better listen.
@@StygianStyle if notes out of tune are really important for you, it means that you are just jealous and you'll never understand bach correctly. Only analphabets writes comments like that.
@@StygianStyle It's a part from a Bach integral, it is difficult to play all the notes in tune after 4 suites. I saw a Yo Yo Ma integral and he had the same problem.
I feel rather unattached to Bylsma's playing. All technique with no emotion. I wouldn't like to live on a diet of Yo-Yo Ma or Lynn Harrell, but this has zero expression. As for the tune debate, remember this is the 'Scordata' suite. That's why he's using two cellos. Just do a little research.
![BRASIL vs. URUGUAY [1-1] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 12](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-hWBAuxF1eY/mqdefault.jpg)
will always be the best.... Absolutely stunning!!
Great cellista super.
Bach visiting us directly from heaven. Bijlsma is unsurpassed. A lonely standard.
Divine.
This is gold
1. Prélude 0:02
2. Allemande 6:08
3. Courante 13:09
4. Sarabande 15:10
5. Gavotte I/II 18:28
6. Gigue 22:23
Bravo
amazing!!
喜欢Sarabande ❤️
Master on Master
Maravilhosa interpretação!
Genius Bach and Bylsma
Impar.
Very good! Why with a baroque cello, is it tuned with a modern tuning fork A = 440 hz, when it should be at least 1/2 tone lower?
Okay this is a long one haha but I hope it helps you out!
I know we have the idea that "Baroque pitch" is A=415Hz, but that doesn't have to be so set. It's the same with "Classical pitch" being around A=32Hz - it doesn't have to be, but that's what we approximate it to based on the extant records we have. If one man in one town in one country wrote about the system of tuning they used in his town during his lifetime, that account is really most relevant to that very specific section of music. What has happened with "Baroque pitch" and "Classical pitch" is that we have standardised them according to the very little information we have - ie we have taken one man's account and applied it generally to all Eighteenth Century music across the whole of Europe. This isn't to say that it's bad to use A=415Hz when playing Bach, but rather that it's not so different to using any other pitch, because we don't have an exact number for it.
If you imagine, in the Eighteenth Century, they couldn't tune to the electronic tuners we use today which can 'hear' if we're a couple of cents sharp or flat from a numerical pitch. Instead, it would seem that musicians that played together at that time would tune to the most stable pitched and audible instrument - an organ usually, if the piece required one. But as you can imagine, each organ in each church would go out of tune at different rates and depending on the climate, and they were probably only tuned once in a man's lifetime, which means even if a musician at the time tuned to one specific organ his whole life, he could be tuning his instrument to a whole range of different 'A's.
So essentially it isn't necessarily better to tune A=415Hz for this over any other Hz. In fact, it's now thought that for JS Bach, musicians at the time might have played as low as A=399Hz to as high as A=466Hz (in modern lingo, essentially a whole tone on either side of A=440Hz.)
In saying that, we don't have an exact idea in terms of a Hz number what soloists in Bach's time tuned to when playing - did they still tune to an organ? Or did the musician tune his instrument according to his own ear?
@giorgio lamborghini but you aren't wrong, it is much more common for a baroque period cello to be tuned to A=415Hz, because this is the standard/standardised "Baroque pitch"
@@Soapiepie1 Mamma mia, you write so much!😂 However, with regard to the differents tuning fork in the various areas over the centuries, I think I am quite informed and what you say is correct, I add, during the Renaissance and in the Baroque several diapasons, even very different, could coexist in the same city.
An example for which the tuning fork was not a standardized thing, is the fact that many professional flutists had different spare parts, of various lengths, to adapt to any eventuality.
@@giorgiolamborghini813 Sure, that makes sense! Hope I didn't insult you by explaining things too simply! Imo though, and I see now that this wasn't what you meant in your question originally, but I don't think it has to be a semitone lower because earlier music should be lower in pitch - but again, what you've said seems to make sense (I can't really claim to know so much!) :)
@@Soapiepie1 It was really a pleasure to converse with someone prepared like you on these issues and I apologize if I did a little irony. Greetings from Italy
🙂
6:10
15:08
Did bylsma publish his own version with bowings?
Don't think so. Just Bach the Fencing Master as far as I can tell.
@@isaactakeuchimusic there's also a sequel to that book
@@saltag oh I stand corrected
Il est tellement à l'aise qu'il se frotte le nez pendant son démanché 😮
As a listener, I don’t enjoy his playing that much like other people do. I find his playing too scratchy. I know he’s using gut strings but I think the sound of baroque cello can sound scratchy but not that scratchy. It should be smoother and elegant. I prefer Lucia Swarts’s interpretation.
He's such an amazing cellist. But I wished he wouldn't use those nonsense-bowings and would play trills where they belong (wesentliche Manieren).
The execution of that bowing is the result of research around Italian historical bowing of the 17-18th century. Bylsma himself theorizes that the apparently inconsistent and obscure bowing marks found in the Anna Magdalena manuscript is suggestive of a highly free and varied style of bowing. It would be ignorant to hastily dismiss his bowing choices as nonsense.
Chris is right imo
wtf?
I don't quite get it either. A lot of scratchy sounds and many notes out of tune. For most people, I think the Yo Yo Ma recording is a much better listen.
@@StygianStyle if notes out of tune are really important for you, it means that you are just jealous and you'll never understand bach correctly. Only analphabets writes comments like that.
@@kurakoko If bad intonation doesn't bother you, it means you're a tone-deaf fuck-wit who has no business listening to Bach.
@@StygianStyle It's a part from a Bach integral, it is difficult to play all the notes in tune after 4 suites. I saw a Yo Yo Ma integral and he had the same problem.
I feel rather unattached to Bylsma's playing. All technique with no emotion. I wouldn't like to live on a diet of Yo-Yo Ma or Lynn Harrell, but this has zero expression.
As for the tune debate, remember this is the 'Scordata' suite. That's why he's using two cellos. Just do a little research.