I think a bot that assumes the opponent is gonna do the worst moves possible and tries to force them to win would be more interesting, than a bot that just plays the move that makes the opponent's best move the best
Better yet, instead of picking the worst move every time how about a bot that tries to set up forced-mates against itself (boards where the only legal move is to deliver checkmate)
I was going to say the same thing. The bot still takes moves assuming its opponent will play optimally (or at least decent). It would be kinda interesting to see how a bot would play if it was optimized to lose against people also trying to lose. Kinda like an anti-chess bot, but with the rules of original chess.
I think the real worstfish should be the best chess ever played so you cannot lose or stalemate, basically force you to win, even if it means making it be forced. As it is right now, you can stalemate him and even force worstfish to make a winning move, all it does is pointless blunders (there's a video on how to lose to worstfish). I would love to see 2 engines fight for losing by forcing the other to win in any way possible.
Worstfish's issue is that Stockfish by design doesn't even bother checking most bad moves to save on computation time, and as far as I know, Worstfish doesn't invert those pruning algorithms. It just picks the worst out of the selection of moves Stockfish actually calculated.
@@tipoimaim a year late but no, what they did with worstfish was apply stockfish’s algorithm but it would immediately try not to play or opt out of moves that gained advantage, and calculated the worse moves to see which is actually worse, so yeah it literally is inverse stockfish lol it doesnt js pick the bottom contenders from a normal stockfish its technically a different alg
Subtle nuance here: The engines are not calculating worst lines but worst moves. They still calculate as if the followup moves are the best possible moves on both sides. For instance, the pawn capture at around 3:10 would blunder the knight if opponent played well, but since the opponent is Worstfish too, it just wins material. Oops! Now I have to wonder if there are some even worse lines that could be achieved.
and it's only 50 if one of the players calls it (but most chess websites probably automatically do it), it's not forced until 75. in a game like that, a draw would be a good idea so worstfish would never.
Correction: As some of you have pointed out @mikeock2565 @mrpizza6503 if a pawn moves then the 50 move rule is broken. Thanks for pointing that out guys.
@JonaasK The video literally states that the worst move isn't a bad move bruh can you not understand that? Worst doesn't always mean bad, it just means that it's the least beneficial option
It seems this game would be much more interesting if you were forced to mate if a mate-in-1 existed. It would add layers of complexity and actually lead to a winner. Also, a rule limiting consecutive moves w the same piece might improve it as well
If modified, this would probably actually work as a killer Antichess analysis model. Basically just give it the rules that captures are mandatory if possible, and you've got an insane antichess engine.
"People say that a strong leader often leads the army, but this is kind of extreme. The army has been forgotten..." Idk why, but this made me laugh so hard
Actually, it would be interesting to play chess in this way, both players trying to lose, attempting to force your opponent to checkmate you. It would actually be more complex than normal chess
I found myself feeling bad for both iterations of shitfish..... each making all the worst moves, yet still unable to pull off the loss. The only party I felt worse for was the eval bar.
I think the best way to lose is to make a check that forced your opponent to capture your piece and checkmate yourself, but since those are computers they probably see those attempts from a mile away
Brooo when he went "Now the knight is on the other side of the board for absolute no reason" I was dyinggg🤣and also when he went "The Queen wanted to commit suicide" 🤣🤣🤣
Actually it can be a real goal in chess. Rules should be modified. For example, if you will not capture anything in 5 moves then it will count like you are playing checkmate, so you loose. Another rule you can't move the same piece 2 times in a row. It will be a battle, where your opponent will play the worst moves, but will try to stop your from capturing anything in 5 moves after the last capture. The rule of 5 moves can be active only for one player (any of your capture will redirect this rule to your opponent).
anti-chess is already a thing. you can play on lichess, I believe. The goal is to lose, but you have to capture pieces of you're legally allowed to. it plays out much like you're imagining
After putting in about 40 moves each from black and white and running the analysis cranked to max....The middlegame for white and black was rated at 3128-3127 respectively. Opening for black was a 0 elo, and white was 752....
Unfortunately, any move that gives the opponent a mate in one are all equally considered the worst move, so you get a lot of mindless shuffling. This means no selfmate tactics are at play here. I feel like a move that is part of a forced selfmate should be a worse move than a move that gives a mate in one that the opponent does not have to take, even if said move means no mate in one anymore.
I have an idea what if we make a game mode like antichess but instead of trying to lose the game we try to get as low acc as possible, lowest acc wins regardless off who got checkmated/win in the game
A more interesting worstfish for this could be that if it can take a piece then it must, prioritised by lowest value I guess. A worstfish that can win, but only if it is force-fed pieces by it's opponent.
Its crazy to think that even if you tried your hardest, it's impossible to be as bad as this for a human.
Someone lost to worst fish
Funny how making a good move in a situation like this is easier than a bad move
I'm sure my friend would still lose to worstfish
@@Joren68 yup but it was a grandmaster trying to lose against it, he managed to make it so the ONLY legal move for worstfish was to checkmate him
Watch my worst fish video
A00 Grob Opening: Double Grob, Coca-Cola Gambit
Seems a solid opening.
I agree.
This is the ultimate attack to Pepsi defense.
@@advitiya259 what about the Fanta Gambit
Wait until you hear about the Dr. Pepper Countergambit
You guys missing the Sprite Counter-Attack
I think a bot that assumes the opponent is gonna do the worst moves possible and tries to force them to win would be more interesting, than a bot that just plays the move that makes the opponent's best move the best
Yeah someone lost to worst fish so it really isn’t as bad as possible.
It happened on one of gotham's vids
a minimimi algorithm, i see
Better yet, instead of picking the worst move every time how about a bot that tries to set up forced-mates against itself (boards where the only legal move is to deliver checkmate)
I was going to say the same thing. The bot still takes moves assuming its opponent will play optimally (or at least decent). It would be kinda interesting to see how a bot would play if it was optimized to lose against people also trying to lose. Kinda like an anti-chess bot, but with the rules of original chess.
The eval bar simulated my heartbeat during a test.
Underrated😂
🗿
It simulated my heartbeat when my mom sees the GTV V loading screen
It rise and fall 🗿
So normal?
I think the real worstfish should be the best chess ever played so you cannot lose or stalemate, basically force you to win, even if it means making it be forced.
As it is right now, you can stalemate him and even force worstfish to make a winning move, all it does is pointless blunders (there's a video on how to lose to worstfish).
I would love to see 2 engines fight for losing by forcing the other to win in any way possible.
Worstfish's issue is that Stockfish by design doesn't even bother checking most bad moves to save on computation time, and as far as I know, Worstfish doesn't invert those pruning algorithms. It just picks the worst out of the selection of moves Stockfish actually calculated.
Essentially an Antichess Stockfish.
@@tipoimaim a year late but no, what they did with worstfish was apply stockfish’s algorithm but it would immediately try not to play or opt out of moves that gained advantage, and calculated the worse moves to see which is actually worse, so yeah it literally is inverse stockfish lol it doesnt js pick the bottom contenders from a normal stockfish its technically a different alg
Subtle nuance here: The engines are not calculating worst lines but worst moves. They still calculate as if the followup moves are the best possible moves on both sides. For instance, the pawn capture at around 3:10 would blunder the knight if opponent played well, but since the opponent is Worstfish too, it just wins material. Oops!
Now I have to wonder if there are some even worse lines that could be achieved.
As a 100-rated player, I’ve discovered I have WAY more fun figuring out why bad moves are bad than why good moves are good.
Same, at least I can laugh a bit lol
The 50 move rule updates whenever a pawn gets moved.
Came here to say that: it's 50 moves without capture or a pawn move
and it's only 50 if one of the players calls it (but most chess websites probably automatically do it), it's not forced until 75. in a game like that, a draw would be a good idea so worstfish would never.
Glad other people know the rules
@@espetharthemighty1967 Yeah, being a chess arbiter, I have to know this kind of things for players who don't 😅
Correction: As some of you have pointed out @mikeock2565 @mrpizza6503 if a pawn moves then the 50 move rule is broken. Thanks for pointing that out guys.
1:03 "Its not a bad move, but it's the worst move" - napoleonchess, 2023
Yeah, I caught that too. Funny.
that just means every move isn’t bad
Tf u on
@JonaasK If the worst move isn't bad, then every other move has to be better, therefore every move isn't bad.
@JonaasK The video literally states that the worst move isn't a bad move bruh can you not understand that?
Worst doesn't always mean bad, it just means that it's the least beneficial option
We should give 2 GMs a random position from move 20 of worstfish vs worstfish and have them duke it out.
its mate in 1
maybe like a position that’s balanced, but still a horrible position
Its basically like flipping a coin LOL
I'm going to learn this theory.
"A game played perfectly is always a draw"
implies not biconditional
We don't truly know that, at this point it's only a cojection, and we might never prove it
GROB OPENING: DOUBLE GROB, COCA COLA GAMBIT MADE ME LAUGH MY ASS OFF
until my dad stopped snoring at 3am
Finally a worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary!
Finally, I can understand how Magnus will feel if he views my best game.
It seems this game would be much more interesting if you were forced to mate if a mate-in-1 existed. It would add layers of complexity and actually lead to a winner. Also, a rule limiting consecutive moves w the same piece might improve it as well
The white king is playing King of the Hill mode dw
I was suffering the whole video
It's amazing how many checkmates could have happened, and none of them happened.
This is basically Antichess, but you aren't forced to capture a piece.
The lines in anti chess go so deep and intricate that I can’t figure it out
If modified, this would probably actually work as a killer Antichess analysis model. Basically just give it the rules that captures are mandatory if possible, and you've got an insane antichess engine.
now we need one where both bots alternate between worstfish and best stockfish level
I love when the evaluation bar is doing pushups.
"People say that a strong leader often leads the army, but this is kind of extreme. The army has been forgotten..." Idk why, but this made me laugh so hard
Actually, it would be interesting to play chess in this way, both players trying to lose, attempting to force your opponent to checkmate you. It would actually be more complex than normal chess
It exists! Well, kind of. Look up Antichess
Okay, but this is called the Coca-Cola Gambit. That’s a really funny name for an opening
This bot is insanely superior to humans… in being bad.
This embodies how I play chess perfectly.
They are playing chess, I am playing checkers
I found myself feeling bad for both iterations of shitfish..... each making all the worst moves, yet still unable to pull off the loss. The only party I felt worse for was the eval bar.
I think the best way to lose is to make a check that forced your opponent to capture your piece and checkmate yourself, but since those are computers they probably see those attempts from a mile away
'its not a bad move, but it is the worst possible move mathematically'
Most toxic game of chess in Canada be like
I really enjoy watching the prediction bar on the left go back and forth.
Brooo when he went "Now the knight is on the other side of the board for absolute no reason" I was dyinggg🤣and also when he went "The Queen wanted to commit suicide" 🤣🤣🤣
I love how the white king just wanders about in the beginning, like hes in a fugue state
Actually it can be a real goal in chess. Rules should be modified. For example, if you will not capture anything in 5 moves then it will count like you are playing checkmate, so you loose. Another rule you can't move the same piece 2 times in a row. It will be a battle, where your opponent will play the worst moves, but will try to stop your from capturing anything in 5 moves after the last capture. The rule of 5 moves can be active only for one player (any of your capture will redirect this rule to your opponent).
Na that’ll be bad for real chess that will be fun for a variant tho
anti-chess is already a thing. you can play on lichess, I believe. The goal is to lose, but you have to capture pieces of you're legally allowed to. it plays out much like you're imagining
@@OmneAurumNon yeah Ik but he’s talking about something semi different but the one on lichess if you could take a piece you have to
worst chess idea i've ever read
@@assumethisisclever same
10:41 "apparently her majesty likes to die"
that is really bad without context man 🤣
Chess played perfectly is always a draw.
No it’s not
2:07 white won
King of the hill
4:13 Third mate with Qxe2...
4:03 Queen takes knight is also checkmate haha, honestly impressive
That's literally the only checkmate I saw lol
Bro how did you get footage of me playing chess
Knight on the rim?
Pretty Dim.
Knight in the corner?
We don't have a rhyme for how incredibly stupid that is.
analysis please link
www.chess.com/a/Gr6AFvLN2Qeb8?tab=analysis
Do you want to learn the coca-cola gambit AND the pepsi countergambit? New video here: ruclips.net/video/AQMBdldU4PY/видео.html
I want Sprite old man!
You should play against worstfish and try to lose.
@@feierlord I think someone else already did that, Gotham made a video about it
This was rather hilarious. Subscribed.
subscribed and liked all your videos. keep it up you are doing great
Thanks!
Would be interested to see this match if both bots planned on the other making the worst move
Me too
the eval bar just casually having a stroke
Evaluation bar is carrying the boats.
There is No way the eval bar can make me laugh so hard💀💀💀
This is actually 3500 rated players trying to lose. It's the time honored gamemode of "get mated and win"
The elo bar just playing tennis at this point
First the kings get a workout, then the eval gets a workout
While every other pieces get one too
4:06 - 3 ways to mate, right? Queen takes horsie also looks lethal to me.
That is correct.
Despite worstfish being worst bot in chess, it's still significantly better than me
Welcome to Ssehc, the new generation game everyone been waiting for
Kind of the knight to wait for that white rook to move before it gets on that square. Polite fella
You should program it so that it is not allowed to move the same piece twice in a row
Thumbnail looks like a sorting algorithm
King: I think I’ll go for a little walk
Worst fish vs Worst fish judged by stockfish
Imagine having a dollar for every time someone hangs mate or someone hangs a major piece
Someone should make a stalefish
This is just a video of me playing against myself
my toxic character trait is thinking I can play worse
Evaluation graph looks like a backgammon board
You dare end the most perfect chess game in history
@napoleonchess You are wrong about the 50 move rule, it is not only captures that interupt it, also pawn moves.
It flipped the game on its head; the goal is now to LOSE first! Can you force the opponent to make a winning move before stumbling into one yourself?
That King f2 was wild. It was so bad I didn't even see that.
Chess when played perfectly is always a draw
Lmao the bar at the left somehow reverses each time
Coca Cola Gambit? What do you do after that? The Pepsi Defense? The A&W Attack?
doesn't the 50 move rule reset when you push a pawn?
Wait - 15 minutes of watching this and you just decided to quit? 🤨
This kind of content is why I love youtube.
How can you put 2 computers together?
I lost it at "Coca-Cola gambit" 😭😭😭😭
Qxe2 should also finish the M1, no?
Yes, correct.
After putting in about 40 moves each from black and white and running the analysis cranked to max....The middlegame for white and black was rated at 3128-3127 respectively.
Opening for black was a 0 elo, and white was 752....
how many blunders/misses/mistake/brilliant and great move
You're telling me there's an opener worse than bongcloud?
Clearly I still have a lot of theory left to learn
This is actually interesting, I wonder if it's possible to force a lose 🤔
New favorite channel
this is worst pain i ever got in chess
Pawn moves and captures reset the 50 move rule
Unfortunately, any move that gives the opponent a mate in one are all equally considered the worst move, so you get a lot of mindless shuffling. This means no selfmate tactics are at play here. I feel like a move that is part of a forced selfmate should be a worse move than a move that gives a mate in one that the opponent does not have to take, even if said move means no mate in one anymore.
I think worst fish is stockfish except playing what it thinks is the worst move instead of the best
4:08 there's actually a third way with Qxe2 lol, very good move by black for losing the game
I have an idea what if we make a game mode like antichess but instead of trying to lose the game we try to get as low acc as possible, lowest acc wins regardless off who got checkmated/win in the game
“there’s two ways that white can mate here” *_the Qxe2# in question:_*
Ngl i believed it was a levy video
Well, they developed pieces, so that is good...
A more interesting worstfish for this could be that if it can take a piece then it must, prioritised by lowest value I guess.
A worstfish that can win, but only if it is force-fed pieces by it's opponent.
This just me analyzing a game between me and my bud
1:47 THE ROOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKK
50 move rule also says if no pawns were moved
The CocaCola Gambit got me ngl
why do you sound so nervous
Have you ever read "I have no mouth and I must scream?" It's an awful lot like this game.