Excellent video! Very nice job!! One small correction regarding the lubricating mixture of the 1855/56 style cartridge, (mentioned at around time mark 1:53), is actually the reverse of what is stated in the video. The official "Small Arms - 1856" document calls for the bullets to be lubricated in 3 parts tallow to 1 part beeswax, not the other way around.
@@stevensheldon9271 Steve - Hopefully, I didn't sound too critical about that info. Before my comment, I went back and double checked the "Small Arms" document...actually hoping I was wrong, since the mixture of 3 parts tallow to 1 part wax makes for a very greasy cartridge at times. Depending on temperature, it can actually start soaking through the outer paper once completed. No wonder they changed the mixture. I actually think 3 parts wax to 1 part tallow would do better. I really wish this video had been around many years ago when I had nothing but the written word of the ordnance manuals to follow! One quick question - what type of paper do you use for the inner 1"x2" powder cylinder of the 1855 cartridge? I have no reference to how thick the "rocket paper" was back in the day. I find if I use ordinary copy/printer paper the 1"x2" cylinder portion things come out fine. If I use heavier card stock paper for the powder cylinder, there just isn't enough paper of the inner wrapper to fold over and glue without a small hole in the middle which powder can sift through. Once again, very well done video! Thank you for taking the time to do it!
@@Flintlock85 It was just a screw-up on my part. Traditional thinking in the 1850s in England was that more tallow was better for making the anti-fouling agent more greasy. By the 1860s it was discovered that tallow actually encouraged corrosion of the lead, increasing its diameter. The British eventually settled on 100% beeswax as the ideal anti-fouling agent. My guess is the United States followed a similar trajectory with the pre-1860 lubricant being 1:3 beeswax:tallow, and in the 1861 manual becoming 1:8 tallow:beeswax.
@@Flintlock85 Home Depot sells large rolls of masking paper which is thick, almost like a construction paper. This is what I use for the stiffener in the 1855 cartridge. I believe the Ordnance manual calls it "rocket paper". As I recall there is actually a section in the Ordnance Manual that describes paper and the tests to test it to determine if it is up-to-spec. Of course period paper was mostly cotton rag and most paper today is made from wood pulp. It doesn't make much difference for US-style cartridges since all the paper is discarded, unlike the British cartridge where the paper forms a patch for the bullet.
@@stevensheldon9271 Good information...thanks! I use 3-M masking paper for my cartridges, (1861 pattern), as it is the closest thing I have found in modern times which comes close to the color and thickness of original cartridges in my collection. The "rocket paper" was more of a mystery to me, and the card stock paper I tried was just a little too thick. I will have to get some of the stuff you mentioned in your last reply. Thanks once again!!
I find they are relaxing to make, too. I guess it's kind of like crochet or cross stitch. :) Things get tucked away in drawers and forgotten, I guess. Here are some examples of surviving artifacts you can buy: www.americancivilwarrelics.com/Civil%20War%20Cartridge.htm I'm not endorsing these products, it was just an example that showed up doing a Google search.
Great video!! I've made paper cartridges for my Navy revolver out of cigarette rolling papers with success. I've watched several videos on these types of paper cartridges but yours is the first to show two different styles. Would you do a video of loading these in to a riffle? Thanks for posting!!
Steve - would the 1862 cartridge be compliant with N-SSA rules for a Cook & Bros carbine? Just getting involved w/N-SSA, and appreciate the instruction (shooting video too)
Yes, with the help of John Robey I was able to get the N-SSA rules changed to allow the use of US-style paper cartridges for general use (instead of just in the Traditional Match as it was previously). The N-SSA allows this style of cartridge because no paper goes down the bore when using it. It is simply a carrier for the powder and bullet. One of my teammates shoots with historical cartridges and he is plenty fast with them!
1855: 4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1855_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf 1862: 4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1862_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf The ordnance manuals are not clear on the thickness of the paper, as I recall. But there was a section somewhere that explained the requirements for different kinds of paper (how much weight a sheet of it could suspend, as I recall). I use rolls of lightweight brown masking paper from Lowes or Home Depot for the main body pieces, and a light construction paper for the stiffener. Lowes and Home Depot also sell a heavier brown masking paper that I use for that purpose.
1855: 4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1855_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf 1862: 4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1862_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf The ordnance manuals are not clear on the thickness of the paper, as I recall. But there was a section somewhere that explained the requirements for different kinds of paper (how much weight a sheet of it could suspend, as I recall). I use rolls of lightweight brown masking paper from Lowes or Home Depot for the main body pieces, and a light construction paper for the stiffener. Lowes and Home Depot also sell a heavier brown masking paper that I use for that purpose.
The US Expanding ball cartridge was used by tearing off the tail of the cartridge with the teeth, and then pouring the black powder down the muzzle. Then the cartridge was broken open and the lubricated bullet removed from the paper, which was discarded. The bullet was then placed in the muzzle and rammed down the barrel with the ramrod. None of the paper goes down the barrel with the US cartridge. Yes, you can make similar cartridges with round balls, and this was done with smoothbore ammunition, except in that case the ball was left in the paper and the paper went down the barrel with the ball, and the ball was under-sized to accommodate the thickness of the paper. If you look for videos on how to Load in Nine Times, you will see how to load US expanding ball ammunition. ruclips.net/video/5cWh3w9atTw/видео.html
May I please ask what is the recipe? 1 part of what to eight parts of beeswax? Automatically generated subtitles says "1 part toilet to 8 parts beeswax" Many thanks!
I tried my hand at it a couple of times, making the various fixtures described online and in ordnance manuals. But I have not made more than perhaps 5. I don't have much need of them; I don't reenact I just shoot them.
@@skylerslack12At Home Depot / Lowes there are two kinds of masking paper in the paint section. One is a flimsy, newspaper-like paper that is good for the outer pieces. They also sell a heavier paper that works well for the powder chamber.
Hello Steve, Thanks so much for sharing your time, knowledge, and craftsmanship. Great information.....Doc
Great tutorial
Excellent video! Very nice job!! One small correction regarding the lubricating mixture of the 1855/56 style cartridge, (mentioned at around time mark 1:53), is actually the reverse of what is stated in the video. The official "Small Arms - 1856" document calls for the bullets to be lubricated in 3 parts tallow to 1 part beeswax, not the other way around.
Good catch!
@@stevensheldon9271 Steve - Hopefully, I didn't sound too critical about that info. Before my comment, I went back and double checked the "Small Arms" document...actually hoping I was wrong, since the mixture of 3 parts tallow to 1 part wax makes for a very greasy cartridge at times. Depending on temperature, it can actually start soaking through the outer paper once completed. No wonder they changed the mixture. I actually think 3 parts wax to 1 part tallow would do better. I really wish this video had been around many years ago when I had nothing but the written word of the ordnance manuals to follow!
One quick question - what type of paper do you use for the inner 1"x2" powder cylinder of the 1855 cartridge? I have no reference to how thick the "rocket paper" was back in the day. I find if I use ordinary copy/printer paper the 1"x2" cylinder portion things come out fine. If I use heavier card stock paper for the powder cylinder, there just isn't enough paper of the inner wrapper to fold over and glue without a small hole in the middle which powder can sift through.
Once again, very well done video! Thank you for taking the time to do it!
@@Flintlock85 It was just a screw-up on my part. Traditional thinking in the 1850s in England was that more tallow was better for making the anti-fouling agent more greasy. By the 1860s it was discovered that tallow actually encouraged corrosion of the lead, increasing its diameter. The British eventually settled on 100% beeswax as the ideal anti-fouling agent. My guess is the United States followed a similar trajectory with the pre-1860 lubricant being 1:3 beeswax:tallow, and in the 1861 manual becoming 1:8 tallow:beeswax.
@@Flintlock85 Home Depot sells large rolls of masking paper which is thick, almost like a construction paper. This is what I use for the stiffener in the 1855 cartridge. I believe the Ordnance manual calls it "rocket paper". As I recall there is actually a section in the Ordnance Manual that describes paper and the tests to test it to determine if it is up-to-spec. Of course period paper was mostly cotton rag and most paper today is made from wood pulp. It doesn't make much difference for US-style cartridges since all the paper is discarded, unlike the British cartridge where the paper forms a patch for the bullet.
@@stevensheldon9271 Good information...thanks! I use 3-M masking paper for my cartridges, (1861 pattern), as it is the closest thing I have found in modern times which comes close to the color and thickness of original cartridges in my collection. The "rocket paper" was more of a mystery to me, and the card stock paper I tried was just a little too thick. I will have to get some of the stuff you mentioned in your last reply. Thanks once again!!
Thank You!
For some reason I really like watching people make paper cartridges. Still surviving cartridges and arsenal packs?! How?
I find they are relaxing to make, too. I guess it's kind of like crochet or cross stitch. :)
Things get tucked away in drawers and forgotten, I guess. Here are some examples of surviving artifacts you can buy:
www.americancivilwarrelics.com/Civil%20War%20Cartridge.htm
I'm not endorsing these products, it was just an example that showed up doing a Google search.
Great video!! I've made paper cartridges for my Navy revolver out of cigarette rolling papers with success. I've watched several videos on these types of paper cartridges but yours is the first to show two different styles. Would you do a video of loading these in to a riffle? Thanks for posting!!
Here are the cartridges being loaded and fired: ruclips.net/video/p71eysh_OGw/видео.html
Steve - would the 1862 cartridge be compliant with N-SSA rules for a Cook & Bros carbine? Just getting involved w/N-SSA, and appreciate the instruction (shooting video too)
Yes, with the help of John Robey I was able to get the N-SSA rules changed to allow the use of US-style paper cartridges for general use (instead of just in the Traditional Match as it was previously). The N-SSA allows this style of cartridge because no paper goes down the bore when using it. It is simply a carrier for the powder and bullet. One of my teammates shoots with historical cartridges and he is plenty fast with them!
Can this technique be done with modern black powder rifles and pistols
Yes. All of my guns are modern reproductions of historic arms.
What are the measurements of the papers you used. What are the dimensions and type of paper used for the stiffener?
1855:
4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1855_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf
1862:
4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1862_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf
The ordnance manuals are not clear on the thickness of the paper, as I recall. But there was a section somewhere that explained the requirements for different kinds of paper (how much weight a sheet of it could suspend, as I recall).
I use rolls of lightweight brown masking paper from Lowes or Home Depot for the main body pieces, and a light construction paper for the stiffener. Lowes and Home Depot also sell a heavier brown masking paper that I use for that purpose.
What are the dimensions of the single piece of paper used in the 1862 cartridge? Really enjoyed the video!
1855:
4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1855_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf
1862:
4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1862_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf
The ordnance manuals are not clear on the thickness of the paper, as I recall. But there was a section somewhere that explained the requirements for different kinds of paper (how much weight a sheet of it could suspend, as I recall).
I use rolls of lightweight brown masking paper from Lowes or Home Depot for the main body pieces, and a light construction paper for the stiffener. Lowes and Home Depot also sell a heavier brown masking paper that I use for that purpose.
Steven Sheldon thanks!
Great video. Can you give us the paper dimensions? Thanks.
Page 115: play.google.com/store/books/details?id=cXkDAAAAYAAJ
Or, you can buy a template with forming tool here: www.forth-armoury.com/cartridge-template-kits.html
Can u do this with round ball? How are theses loaded? Remove bullet from paper or jam it all in?
The US Expanding ball cartridge was used by tearing off the tail of the cartridge with the teeth, and then pouring the black powder down the muzzle. Then the cartridge was broken open and the lubricated bullet removed from the paper, which was discarded. The bullet was then placed in the muzzle and rammed down the barrel with the ramrod. None of the paper goes down the barrel with the US cartridge. Yes, you can make similar cartridges with round balls, and this was done with smoothbore ammunition, except in that case the ball was left in the paper and the paper went down the barrel with the ball, and the ball was under-sized to accommodate the thickness of the paper. If you look for videos on how to Load in Nine Times, you will see how to load US expanding ball ammunition. ruclips.net/video/5cWh3w9atTw/видео.html
What’s the measurements of a trapezoids?
4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1855_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf
4thla.weebly.com/uploads/3/7/9/6/37969349/_1862_expanding_ball_instructions.pdf
May I please ask what is the recipe? 1 part of what to eight parts of beeswax? Automatically generated subtitles says "1 part toilet to 8 parts beeswax"
Many thanks!
Tallow.
Do you make your own arsenal packs also?
I tried my hand at it a couple of times, making the various fixtures described online and in ordnance manuals. But I have not made more than perhaps 5. I don't have much need of them; I don't reenact I just shoot them.
Hey Steven, do you have an information about round ball loadings during the civil war?
Sorry, I have not done much research into round ball ammunition. I recommend Round Ball to Rimfire by Dean Thomas.
Steven Sheldon thanks Steven
I now have videos up regarding US 69 caliber round ball and buck and ball cartridges.
👏👏👏
What are the dimensions for the 1855 powder cylinder sheets?
You can find them on page 114 of this book: www.google.com/books/edition/Reports_of_Experiments_with_Small_Arms_f/b4dAAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1
You can buy a template with a mandrel here: www.forth-armoury.com/cartridge-template-kits.html#/
@stevensheldon9271 what kind of paper did you use for the powder chamber? Kraft paper?
@@skylerslack12At Home Depot / Lowes there are two kinds of masking paper in the paint section. One is a flimsy, newspaper-like paper that is good for the outer pieces. They also sell a heavier paper that works well for the powder chamber.
What is the diameter of the mandrel?
Same size as the bullet. .58 inches.
Is this Peyton Manning?