Mark, thanks for sharing. My husband is a really handy guy and has done vinyl siding before but, not split shake,. We are doing our mountain home in split shake over T1-11 as well. The local stores have no samples to even look at to kind of get an idea of how to connect different scenarios. This is gonna be a great help!
The mastic product installation guide is a good resource. Also if you're willing to pay almost $200, a VSI (vinyl siding institute) training course is an awesome resource!
great idea using cardboard for the angles! got some reclaimed vinyl cedar shakes for a tiny house project and want to start siding soon. thanks for the video!
Nicely done. Thank You The punch that you needed is common for use in sheet metal work and is made by the Roper Whitney company and is called a Whitney Number 5 Junior.
I forgot to say nice video and I like the look of that siding - hadn't seen much of it in our area unless it was real cedar. Oh and I don't know why there are lines over some of the text. Don't know what I did different, will check it out later.
You sir are a life saver. There is a blinding lack of information out there for installing this kind of siding, so it is awesome that you put out such a clear video. I am just curious; on your back wall above the door at the very top: how are you attaching those extremely short pieces you cut to fill the last 5 or so inches?
+trapmaster2000 Thank you, I had the same experience of finding no information before installing these, which is why I shot this. I struggled with that same question because you can't use utility trim and snaplock punch with this thick stuff. I worked for a siding contractor for fun after doing my own house. They would say to just use 1-1/4" white soffit & trim nails with a Kobalt trim nail punch, but I wanted to be extra cautious about expansion/contraction and drilled a nail hole slot, then screwed in a 1-1/4 Primeguard exterior screw. I later painted the screw head under the J channel to match the siding color. For this very thin 5" application, it was no different, or more difficult than any other under-sill application, and just used the same approach here as I did everywhere else.
Great job and video. House looks great. We are going to use the same siding and just discovered they don’t offer j channel in the same “cedar” color. What color j channel did you use? Yours looks like a good match. We are thinking about Montana suede for the j channel and cedar for the siding. Any thoughts or recommendations?
The place I bought them from did not present that question to me. They may have called their Mastic rep and asked so I wouldn’t have to. Not impressed by the guy selling to you if he didn’t do the same. The J-channel I used was larger than average as this was required. Thanks for the compliments :-)
@@Markcgreer Thanks for the reply. Mastic provided recommendations to our rep so I think we're good! Thanks again for the info and for the video. Nice job!
I should say that after doing my house and then working for a siding contractor, there's no need to do the soffit and fascia first before the siding. Pros will just run up the wall and then do the soffit, fascia when they get up that high.
I talk about it at 6:25. I drilled a nail fin for exterior screws to be extra safe, but the pros use a nail punch tool like this: Malco Model TNP2STS with those white aluminum 1-1/4" trim nails. Seems like it cuts a corner, but everybody's doing it.
You don't use a level for siding, you measure off of the soffits or others set points. If the building is out of level due to foundation issues, you will run into some problems as you get up top
I dont think thats correct .I have work with people that uses the method and they end up with a 2 inches in both sides . .use the hose like the Roman's and it never fails
$352 per square on before tax. All the J channel, starter strip and blocks are insignificant, but if you use the decorative corners as I did, they were $312 per box of 10 38" corners. I only needed 2 boxes for 5-1/2 outside corners.
Mark Greer Thanks Mark. Were breaking ground next week on a new one and we are using Ceder Shake vinyl for the entire house. I haven't settled on a manufacturer yet but your mastic looks great. We have 14 corners!
I would use a sharpee and a laser level to draw a line all the way around the house on the house wrap where the starter strip will be nailed. Avoid a chalk line droops a little in the center over 20+ feet. When you do complete all 4 walls, you may find that the house is sloped slightly in one direction or corner. All of the sources out there assert that you should install your starter strip and siding level, not parallel with the sloping house. Start on the lowest wall. Nailing it in is easy. Hooking your first row is easy.
The worse siding jobs I have ever seen are those where they have all these short pieces and or where seams line up. The same issue with decks or floors where I think it looks hokey, you won't find high end professional work done that way. I understand wanting to eliminate waste but maybe folks should plan to use short pieces for dog houses, sheds, etc. as using short pieces shows up particularly on tradional vinyl siding or Dutch lap due to lots of resulting seams. It's the same with j-channel - if you don't know how to cut miters perfectly, hire someone to do it. Because when the siding settles, ages, etc - and gaps open up it will look bad. Most siding jobs that look bad on completion is because the trim work was done crappy manner. A month or two+ later especially as weather changes - then nailing mistakes show up and that wavy, buckling, etc along with bad trim and finishing techniques will make you ready to pull it all down. In addition, not every product is the same and there are new options in various products from what you might have learned about -5 years ago. Get advice, read the manufacturer website for use instructions, etc. RUclips is not what I call proper advice (in many cases). Many times these folks don't have any more experience or training than you do -- why would you follow them. Watching video is okay to help you realize where you might have issues, what you see looks bad, and to realize you need to go get professional advice. I love the videos that basically start with "never done this, but I'm going to show you how to do it." Sorry guys -- a woman would never do this or most wouldn't. Get in touch with your feminine side and really think and plan about how the end product will look. Story in point that basically cost the money to take a dream trip to Hawaii a couple of decades ago. A friend's husband refused to get a vinyl job done professionally. Said "I'm working as a carpenter, of course I can do it, what, do you think I'm stupid?" -- he was a carpenter sorta ...but not a very good one. He did the house. 8-12 months later, it was just awful to look like and he refused anyone's advice when doing the job. He decided it just needed a little rework, two years later called his dad from out of state to come help fix it (the same guy who taught him bad techniques to begin with and had never done siding of any kind). You can imagine my friend was just in a panic - saw dollar bills flying out the windows. His dad did convince him of one thing - much of the siding was ruined and couldn't be straightened out so lots of money for more siding. After all was said and done, it was still bad from a technique standpoint particularly trim, cutting, seams, etc. Let's travel 5 years forward, the guy had matured a bit, started actually looking at lots of high end jobs - got fired from two other house building companies for not listening and finally got a 3rd job with a guy that somehow got through to him. And the more he looked at his house was just ashamed of it. So now we are at 10 years with the cheapest siding he could have bought that faded unevenly, cracked, was brittle, etc. thus he decided to have it all replaced. He was so busy on his job and their wait list was at least a year out, so his boss recommended someone else to do the job if he didn't want to wait another year plus for the company to help him out during down times. He had it redone, paid more money than he said he'd ever pay and now almost 15 years later -- it still looks great, like new, and they still love it. So basically, he redid the house 3 times. Moral of the story --- don't be stupid and try to do jobs you obviously don't have the actual knowledge, the training to properly complete nor the time. Building a dog house or a porch swing is one thing. But why guys think because they helped their dad build a hunting cabin, tree stand, or shed in the woods when they were 14 -- and have spent the rest of their lives being a landscape guy, office worker, hospital tech, etc -- they can now build or rebuild/renovate a house -- I will never understand. What I like better is they build say a small memory box that is really done well and they and their friends are like - " hey man, look at the beautiful box you made your wife -- sure you can add on a den or tear off the kitchen to build a great room". But the end of the story is : after all these years, they have finally almost saved enough money to finally get to take their dream 3 week vacation to the South Pacific islands and do all the things they wanted to do while there from helicopter tours, deep sea fishing, diving, staying in bungalow over the ocean, and on and on. Still a year or so off and years later than they had expected but I think they will make it an anniversary to remember or the honeymoon they never got. And as I tell them, hey the kids are grown so you don't have to worry about them why you are gone, and you have enough vacation time to really enjoy yourself and not be rushed. You couldn't have done that 20-25 years ago.
Don't think so when you have to work with individual pieces not a whole length of siding. Then there is the worrying about powder post beetles, termites and the darn carpenter bees. Not to mention finding decent cedar or cypress wood. It's almost impossible at a reasonable price and 50-100 years ago and back, all the lumber that was old growth was much stronger, denser, had more protective resin in it etc. Today, the fast grown tree plantation stuff no matter whether cedar, cypress, white oak, fir, it's just not as durable. I have a couple pieces of cypress off an old house and it's unbelieve the thickness, density and weight of the wood compared to piece of new harvested lumber (same size, etc). I have old fir from a shed that came out of a old shed built 60 years ago and it was from a barn and house that was torn down that was at least 100 years old based on property. So that lumber now in my shed is 20 years in my shed, 60 years in the house out back and at least 100 years from its original location. So it's almost 200 years old and you can't believe the difference in today's wood. We hauled in in to the back and knew it was heavy and larger but it wasn't until we ran out and went to Lowes to get more lumber, got back and had one of each in hand. Just shocking. It's like white oak boards and locust posts or even white oak posts that are still standing in pastures from 100 years ago, more really (put up in 20-30s. No treated, no concrete. Dunked and soaked the bottom 2' -- we were still doing this in the 60-70s and those fences are still up. Just used real natural pine tar when we could get it from local producers or creosote painted. Used natural linseed oil to thin to be able to paint the mixture and it lasted forever. There are many old fence posts still standing on abandoned farms or old estates. Horses didn't bother it either. Today folks on big Ky horse farms use black paint stain on their new fences but it doesn't last. And the mess they call linseed oil in the stores is awful. I have finally found some true Swedish and English type linseed oil and finishes at a little place called solvent free paint I think. You paint whatever, wood, metal etc. and 10 years later, you just give it a wipe down with natural raw or their organic "boiled" type linseed (no solvents) and it's all refreshed (shiny, color restored) and protected again. I figure if it's still protecting 600-700 year old buildings in Europe it's good. The only issue is you can't put it over layers of acrylic and resins - you got to get down to bare wood. But organic linseed doesn't mold or mildew -- nothing for the mildew, mold to feed off and grow. Check out their website and read all the literature including its use on wooden boats and teak etc. my grandfather use to paint all our outside metal with organic linseed - difficult to find in the US except this place. Here in the US, they keep talking about improvements and changes in the paint and stain lines, but the only improvement is to their bottom line because we have to keep repainting every couple of years. And concrete setting of posts is just wrong and lazy especially if you have any type of wet soil. But they all do it now because they don't want to take the time to properly tamp posts inch by inch so it's really packed. We had clay and mixed in 20-25% granite dust, poured a tiny bit of water as you tamped and it was like concrete. These posts are still standing from the late 60-70s. I had new fence put in and less than 20 years they have just rotted off. When we replaced a section that had a large tree fall on it, we saw the issue - no bug issues just plain old rot and on treated wood. The concrete (and the new foam ones) hold the moisture to the post for a long time and when it rains, as the post shrinks with age, the water can run down the post, into the openings around the post. You have to keep filling in the top with clay/stone dust and slanting to try and help but you can't get down to where it's rotting. And the concrete keeps you from tamping. The way they use to do posts, every year or two - you just went out with a couple buckets on stone dust, a tamper, couple gallons of water if dry, your level to replumb. Amd you checked the posts, tamped down around it, adding some stone dust amd kept tamping and checking for plumb until straight and tight. Usually only a probable, when cows or horses pushed on them to scratch. The way they do fences now residential isn't the way most farmers do theirs because they don't want to have them rot and redo. The fence companies want to make sure they get a new job in 10-20 years. They can't make money if the fence never falls down. It's like the replacement windows -- good name because you will be replacing every 15-20 years. Yet Windows use to last at least 50-100 plus years. Good wood, good glass, linseed putty, linseed paint and linseed and zinc oxide for primer. And people took care of the homes they knew their family would be in for centuries. They didn't slap plastic on it and figure their job was done. Check the Solvent Free Paint site.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & JOP) [Video Visualizador Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zoc75M8Swhc/mqdefault.jpg)
Mark, thanks for sharing. My husband is a really handy guy and has done vinyl siding before but, not split shake,. We are doing our mountain home in split shake over T1-11 as well. The local stores have no samples to even look at to kind of get an idea of how to connect different scenarios. This is gonna be a great help!
The mastic product installation guide is a good resource. Also if you're willing to pay almost $200, a VSI (vinyl siding institute) training course is an awesome resource!
great idea using cardboard for the angles! got some reclaimed vinyl cedar shakes for a tiny house project and want to start siding soon. thanks for the video!
Nicely done. Thank You The punch that you needed is common for use in sheet metal work and is made by the Roper Whitney company and is called a Whitney Number 5 Junior.
I forgot to say nice video and I like the look of that siding - hadn't seen much of it in our area unless it was real cedar. Oh and I don't know why there are lines over some of the text. Don't know what I did different, will check it out later.
You sir are a life saver. There is a blinding lack of information out there for installing this kind of siding, so it is awesome that you put out such a clear video. I am just curious; on your back wall above the door at the very top: how are you attaching those extremely short pieces you cut to fill the last 5 or so inches?
+trapmaster2000 Thank you, I had the same experience of finding no information before installing these, which is why I shot this. I struggled with that same question because you can't use utility trim and snaplock punch with this thick stuff. I worked for a siding contractor for fun after doing my own house. They would say to just use 1-1/4" white soffit & trim nails with a Kobalt trim nail punch, but I wanted to be extra cautious about expansion/contraction and drilled a nail hole slot, then screwed in a 1-1/4 Primeguard exterior screw. I later painted the screw head under the J channel to match the siding color. For this very thin 5" application, it was no different, or more difficult than any other under-sill application, and just used the same approach here as I did everywhere else.
Darn good work....I want this in the front of my house despite having vinyl siding on back and sides....Looks much better....
Hermena Thompson
Thanks, I agree. Having it just in the front is something we did commonly when I worked for a siding contractor.
Excellent tips, and nice rustic house.
Great job dude.
That's why the pro's are paid so well , because of what if scenarios and special situations
Will you show us how they expand and contract again?
Obviously he don't know that part also he starts hes nails on the end of the siding you should start in the middle
Great job and video. House looks great. We are going to use the same siding and just discovered they don’t offer j channel in the same “cedar” color. What color j channel did you use? Yours looks like a good match. We are thinking about Montana suede for the j channel and cedar for the siding. Any thoughts or recommendations?
The place I bought them from did not present that question to me. They may have called their Mastic rep and asked so I wouldn’t have to. Not impressed by the guy selling to you if he didn’t do the same. The J-channel I used was larger than average as this was required. Thanks for the compliments :-)
@@Markcgreer Thanks for the reply. Mastic provided recommendations to our rep so I think we're good! Thanks again for the info and for the video. Nice job!
How did you seal j channel around windows?
I should say that after doing my house and then working for a siding contractor, there's no need to do the soffit and fascia first before the siding. Pros will just run up the wall and then do the soffit, fascia when they get up that high.
how are you fastening the top rip
I talk about it at 6:25. I drilled a nail fin for exterior screws to be extra safe, but the pros use a nail punch tool like this: Malco Model TNP2STS with those white aluminum 1-1/4" trim nails. Seems like it cuts a corner, but everybody's doing it.
You don't use a level for siding, you measure off of the soffits or others set points. If the building is out of level due to foundation issues, you will run into some problems as you get up top
I took the Mastic Certified Installer course online and a few times it reiterates to install level, and not parallel with the building.
+Mark Greer Video oh in that case you took an online course
I dont think thats correct .I have work with people that uses the method and they end up with a 2 inches in both sides . .use the hose like the Roman's and it never fails
What's the cost per sq on materials?
$352 per square on before tax. All the J channel, starter strip and blocks are insignificant, but if you use the decorative corners as I did, they were $312 per box of 10 38" corners. I only needed 2 boxes for 5-1/2 outside corners.
Mark Greer
Thanks Mark. Were breaking ground next week on a new one and we are using Ceder Shake vinyl for the entire house. I haven't settled on a manufacturer yet but your mastic looks great. We have 14 corners!
*****
That's sounds like its going to be an amazing house!
Didn’t see anything on installing starter strip
I would use a sharpee and a laser level to draw a line all the way around the house on the house wrap where the starter strip will be nailed. Avoid a chalk line droops a little in the center over 20+ feet. When you do complete all 4 walls, you may find that the house is sloped slightly in one direction or corner. All of the sources out there assert that you should install your starter strip and siding level, not parallel with the sloping house. Start on the lowest wall. Nailing it in is easy. Hooking your first row is easy.
The worse siding jobs I have ever seen are those where they have all these short pieces and or where seams line up. The same issue with decks or floors where I think it looks hokey, you won't find high end professional work done that way. I understand wanting to eliminate waste but maybe folks should plan to use short pieces for dog houses, sheds, etc. as using short pieces shows up particularly on tradional vinyl siding or Dutch lap due to lots of resulting seams. It's the same with j-channel - if you don't know how to cut miters perfectly, hire someone to do it. Because when the siding settles, ages, etc - and gaps open up it will look bad. Most siding jobs that look bad on completion is because the trim work was done crappy manner. A month or two+ later especially as weather changes - then nailing mistakes show up and that wavy, buckling, etc along with bad trim and finishing techniques will make you ready to pull it all down. In addition, not every product is the same and there are new options in various products from what you might have learned about -5 years ago. Get advice, read the manufacturer website for use instructions, etc. RUclips is not what I call proper advice (in many cases). Many times these folks don't have any more experience or training than you do -- why would you follow them. Watching video is okay to help you realize where you might have issues, what you see looks bad, and to realize you need to go get professional advice. I love the videos that basically start with "never done this, but I'm going to show you how to do it." Sorry guys -- a woman would never do this or most wouldn't. Get in touch with your feminine side and really think and plan about how the end product will look.
Story in point that basically cost the money to take a dream trip to Hawaii a couple of decades ago. A friend's husband refused to get a vinyl job done professionally. Said "I'm working as a carpenter, of course I can do it, what, do you think I'm stupid?" -- he was a carpenter sorta ...but not a very good one. He did the house. 8-12 months later, it was just awful to look like and he refused anyone's advice when doing the job. He decided it just needed a little rework, two years later called his dad from out of state to come help fix it (the same guy who taught him bad techniques to begin with and had never done siding of any kind). You can imagine my friend was just in a panic - saw dollar bills flying out the windows. His dad did convince him of one thing - much of the siding was ruined and couldn't be straightened out so lots of money for more siding. After all was said and done, it was still bad from a technique standpoint particularly trim, cutting, seams, etc. Let's travel 5 years forward, the guy had matured a bit, started actually looking at lots of high end jobs - got fired from two other house building companies for not listening and finally got a 3rd job with a guy that somehow got through to him. And the more he looked at his house was just ashamed of it. So now we are at 10 years with the cheapest siding he could have bought that faded unevenly, cracked, was brittle, etc. thus he decided to have it all replaced. He was so busy on his job and their wait list was at least a year out, so his boss recommended someone else to do the job if he didn't want to wait another year plus for the company to help him out during down times. He had it redone, paid more money than he said he'd ever pay and now almost 15 years later -- it still looks great, like new, and they still love it. So basically, he redid the house 3 times. Moral of the story --- don't be stupid and try to do jobs you obviously don't have the actual knowledge, the training to properly complete nor the time. Building a dog house or a porch swing is one thing. But why guys think because they helped their dad build a hunting cabin, tree stand, or shed in the woods when they were 14 -- and have spent the rest of their lives being a landscape guy, office worker, hospital tech, etc -- they can now build or rebuild/renovate a house -- I will never understand. What I like better is they build say a small memory box that is really done well and they and their friends are like - " hey man, look at the beautiful box you made your wife -- sure you can add on a den or tear off the kitchen to build a great room". But the end of the story is : after all these years, they have finally almost saved enough money to finally get to take their dream 3 week vacation to the South Pacific islands and do all the things they wanted to do while there from helicopter tours, deep sea fishing, diving, staying in bungalow over the ocean, and on and on. Still a year or so off and years later than they had expected but I think they will make it an anniversary to remember or the honeymoon they never got. And as I tell them, hey the kids are grown so you don't have to worry about them why you are gone, and you have enough vacation time to really enjoy yourself and not be rushed. You couldn't have done that 20-25 years ago.
Nice blogpost
Nice kung fu at 14:16
Lol, thanks
Too fasten when nailer is gone drill hole and put a color matching nail
I had 2 Polish guys do my 125yr old Victorian. They worked on it for over 2 months. This stuff is not for the ameture.
Look like it would be easier with real shakes🤔
Don't think so when you have to work with individual pieces not a whole length of siding. Then there is the worrying about powder post beetles, termites and the darn carpenter bees. Not to mention finding decent cedar or cypress wood. It's almost impossible at a reasonable price and 50-100 years ago and back, all the lumber that was old growth was much stronger, denser, had more protective resin in it etc. Today, the fast grown tree plantation stuff no matter whether cedar, cypress, white oak, fir, it's just not as durable. I have a couple pieces of cypress off an old house and it's unbelieve the thickness, density and weight of the wood compared to piece of new harvested lumber (same size, etc). I have old fir from a shed that came out of a old shed built 60 years ago and it was from a barn and house that was torn down that was at least 100 years old based on property. So that lumber now in my shed is 20 years in my shed, 60 years in the house out back and at least 100 years from its original location. So it's almost 200 years old and you can't believe the difference in today's wood. We hauled in in to the back and knew it was heavy and larger but it wasn't until we ran out and went to Lowes to get more lumber, got back and had one of each in hand. Just shocking. It's like white oak boards and locust posts or even white oak posts that are still standing in pastures from 100 years ago, more really (put up in 20-30s. No treated, no concrete. Dunked and soaked the bottom 2' -- we were still doing this in the 60-70s and those fences are still up. Just used real natural pine tar when we could get it from local producers or creosote painted. Used natural linseed oil to thin to be able to paint the mixture and it lasted forever. There are many old fence posts still standing on abandoned farms or old estates. Horses didn't bother it either. Today folks on big Ky horse farms use black paint stain on their new fences but it doesn't last. And the mess they call linseed oil in the stores is awful. I have finally found some true Swedish and English type linseed oil and finishes at a little place called solvent free paint I think. You paint whatever, wood, metal etc. and 10 years later, you just give it a wipe down with natural raw or their organic "boiled" type linseed (no solvents) and it's all refreshed (shiny, color restored) and protected again. I figure if it's still protecting 600-700 year old buildings in Europe it's good. The only issue is you can't put it over layers of acrylic and resins - you got to get down to bare wood. But organic linseed doesn't mold or mildew -- nothing for the mildew, mold to feed off and grow. Check out their website and read all the literature including its use on wooden boats and teak etc. my grandfather use to paint all our outside metal with organic linseed - difficult to find in the US except this place.
Here in the US, they keep talking about improvements and changes in the paint and stain lines, but the only improvement is to their bottom line because we have to keep repainting every couple of years.
And concrete setting of posts is just wrong and lazy especially if you have any type of wet soil. But they all do it now because they don't want to take the time to properly tamp posts inch by inch so it's really packed. We had clay and mixed in 20-25% granite dust, poured a tiny bit of water as you tamped and it was like concrete. These posts are still standing from the late 60-70s. I had new fence put in and less than 20 years they have just rotted off. When we replaced a section that had a large tree fall on it, we saw the issue - no bug issues just plain old rot and on treated wood. The concrete (and the new foam ones) hold the moisture to the post for a long time and when it rains, as the post shrinks with age, the water can run down the post, into the openings around the post. You have to keep filling in the top with clay/stone dust and slanting to try and help but you can't get down to where it's rotting. And the concrete keeps you from tamping. The way they use to do posts, every year or two - you just went out with a couple buckets on stone dust, a tamper, couple gallons of water if dry, your level to replumb. Amd you checked the posts, tamped down around it, adding some stone dust amd kept tamping and checking for plumb until straight and tight. Usually only a probable, when cows or horses pushed on them to scratch. The way they do fences now residential isn't the way most farmers do theirs because they don't want to have them rot and redo. The fence companies want to make sure they get a new job in 10-20 years. They can't make money if the fence never falls down. It's like the replacement windows -- good name because you will be replacing every 15-20 years. Yet Windows use to last at least 50-100 plus years. Good wood, good glass, linseed putty, linseed paint and linseed and zinc oxide for primer. And people took care of the homes they knew their family would be in for centuries. They didn't slap plastic on it and figure their job was done.
Check the Solvent Free Paint site.
Wow what I line of bull this is why you should hire a professional you tube should not let this kind of junk on
Lol, without naming anything specific? I followed the vendor’s week-long certification and then worked for a siding contractor later on.
slow