Fixing America's Anti-Air Problem - War Thunder
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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The T100 would probably be the lowest BR radar SPAA. Would be a very fun vehicle probably with it trading damage for accuracy.
What I was thinking, maybe 6.0 just above the duster
@@micahmurphy4546 would be 6.7-7.0 because it will be slightly worse M163
I love the M8 Greyhound, having an aa variant would be really funny
Still find it so weird that despite well over 8,000 having been produced, the US doesn’t get a tech tree greyhound, just the premium. Meanwhile only 400 german pumas were produced across all variants, but it’s in the tech tree. This might fill in that hole in many people’s hearts, even though I personally have the American one from the 10th anniversary event.
@@whoflerdude1855 its the same for the p47m which had higher production than both the ta153 and do335 combined.
Not one mention of the M60 with the 30mm rotary cannon? Shame!
China also has a huge gap betwwen 9.3 and 11.7
The T69, T77 and T85E1 seem the most viable to actually use in War Thunder as proper SPAA vehicles, but I'm not gonna lie, the T52 with its 40mm Bofors strikes me as super interesting to actually bring against ground forces.
No, bad Norrikan! SPAA is for anti-air. It is blasphemy to use SPAA against ground vehicles!
;-)
@@pauld6967well you could tell that to gaijin cuz if you can see the other spaa EXCEPT USA they could mostly pen heavy tanks but some cant so yea them having 100+ pen like the su-57 i think. Its an spaa with lots of pen having 40mm guns meanwhile usa having 40mm only has i think 80
Edit: my bad it was zsu-57 and also it has 57mm guns and has 150+ pen
The M42 could do with some proxy HE. That would give it more distinction from the M19. Something with high velocity guns would be nice somewhere around 5.0/5.3
Both could do with duplex fire being fixed properly so it actually fucking works.
Been saying this for probably about a year and a half now
Give duster VT, bump it to 5.3-6, problems almost completely solved.
We need to fill the 4.3-7.3 gap all those would probably be 1-3 br range
Exept the one with 60cals i think it has a track radar
Half of these would be >4.3
Sherman bofors, 6x50cals on an enclosed Chaffee those alone would be around 5.0-5.3
@@chickensya maybe but i feel they wouldn’t be that good
My vote is the M24 with the 50's. I purposefully still use M16's due to them just feeling "better" than the M19 and M42 for USA and Japan. Having a Closed top version with more guns AND it be at rank 3 (The new BTR makes me happy as well for the same reason). Lets you do more of the Dailies and specials in those nations. All around just a solid SPAA pick.
Also they can add:
- LVTAA-X1, so basically LVTP-5 with M42 Duster turret
- AN/TWQ-1 Avenger, HUMVEE with Stinger missile launcher
- Prototype MIM-46 Mauler
- MIM-23 Hawk, Chaparral with Hawk missiles
- C-RAM = HEMTT + Phalanx CIWS
- XM246 from General Dynamics , Competitor of the XM247 in DIVAD program
- T249 Vigilante
- M6 Linebacker, Bradley IFV with Stinger missile launcher
- i have seen XM975 Roland missile launcher attached to truck (M939 series i guess)
Problem with American air warfare is that, the US base on aircrafts power.
a 50cal on every tank is a much better aa system than every spaag america has
Yeah is gaijin would allow 50cals to elevate more than 20 degrees up.
Similar situation for France. Despite getting the AMX-10 their AA jumps from 2.3 to 4.3 then from 5.3 to 8.3. There were a handful of SPAA variations of the AMX-13 that should be in game.
Amx 13 dca 30 should be in the game as it us what the french actually used they never adopted the amx 30 dca 30 that is in the game
@@maliceharding4668 there was also and AMX VIC with the American Quad .50 cal mount fused to it and a variant from South America with the US dual 40mm turret on it. Both would work to fill gaps in the AA line in the lower tiers.
talking about top tier for a bit, i hate the fact that the top tier spaa from usa is a tank destroyer, so it can cost like 300 spawn points or something just because it has 900 mm pen missiles that half the time dont even work, so technically americas top spaa is the xm975 which, is just a piece of shit, and i swear to god the only reason why its classified as tank destroyer besides those missiles, is because its american and not russian, if that would've been russias top spaa it would just be an spaa
I forget what it's called but there's a 75mm chaffee-based (i think) SPAA prototype that had proxy shells that'd be fun to see as maybe an event vehicle
idk if it had a name but you find it by searching "T22 75mm"
Seems like it had the hull of the M19, which was based on the M24 chaffee. The gun could shoot at 45rpm, but I don't think they tested it because it would've destroyed the suspension.
@@Salsajaman That is exactly what i had in mind, interesting it was never fired, but with vehicles that never even really properly existed, mainly aircraft i'll admit, i see no reason why it shouldn't be added, might just be wildly inaccurate if rapid fired.
@@YeeMacghyee I was wrong. They did fire it in testing, but they found that the automatic firing system that allowed 45rpm didn't work when they elevated the gun. On horizontal targets it still worked, but that is when they found out it was bad for the suspension.
It having real life pictures is more than can be said for some of the vehicles we already have. The problem is a 75mm gun with a 1.3s reload and proxy shells would be really strong. Idk if it could be put below the M163 at 7.7.
@@Salsajaman I feel it would be reasonable to have it be the same BR as the M163, after all we have the WZ305 at 8.7, which is roughly similar in its capabilities with proxy HE.
You forgot the T249 Vigilante!
I think the t249 would do great.
ground A-10 is needed, not wanted.
M114A2 is very similar to the weasel1A4 and sub-i-ii, would make a fun addition, and give the US a mid tier 20mm AA with decent manueverability.
It also isn't a prototype but a production tank, so there is less of a reason to not add it.
Sweden AAs gap between 4.3 and 8.7 is painful as well… ZSU-57-2 doesn’t count it is useless.
Ya too bad all the ZSU's don't get access to the Chinese ZSU proxy rounds.
# Duster with a track radar, missed one lol
7.7 and pointless. Just like the rest of the Prototype AA.
Thank you for making a vid on this. America doesnt have a better AA than the 2.3 M16 until the M163
Germany has the luck, that it got fast firing multi-barrel SPAAs that do actual AA work pretty well. You can kinda take either Wirbel, Ost 2 or the Drilling and will be fine. Kugelblitz is still in its 7.0 no man's land, but not because it's bad.
But with how aggressive CAS and helis are at top tier these days, it does make the Rank VII missile SPAAs feel pretty damn bad.
Pretty much every missile SPAA that uses Rolands right now suck. They pull like they have 10gs but claim they can do like 25gs. Not to mention the myriad of other issues with missile SPAA especially the Stinger Ks.
The only good SPAA right now is the Pantsir/2S6.
Only ones after it are the ADATs because their missiles are fast enough to be easier to aim a little. Besides that they are the worst for multiple other reasons lol. I still think that the Roland launchers are better than ADATS launchers with the only drawback being the evidently broken missiles. If the Roland missiles worked again or ever get fixed, I would use it over the ADATS any day.
still i dont wonder why did they move to 7.0 the kuge.. for no actuall reason they remove it from a line up that could be useful!! and move ti in a place that can do anything..
and the same time the flakpanzer 341 is in 6.3 from who has it.. and is the over powered machine.. people get tricked shot at him they die.. instant cause they believe is ostwing 2 ..
or if you dont believe that and you try to fly away they manage to hit you.. from 3-4 km away..
Yeah the M42 and M19 thing feel pretty inadequate. They have a lot of dispersion in their guns which makes it really annoying to use. I see many utilizing the M16 gun trucks from 2.7 br. While effective, I hope we get something better soon.
a lot of these are good but imo don't solve much of the AA issues for US mid tier
-T69, T77 still use .50s, which severely limits the firepower and maximum effective range, and the gunners are still vulnerable from being gunned by planes (and even by tanks in the case of the T77)
-T36, T68, T52 have but the Bofors /60, whose bad points are the slow rate of fire and not that great velocity, and the T68 is a naked chassis, meaning it'd be a turbo GMC 353, at least T52 has the .50 coax but at that point you're just a heavier M13
-T85E1, T100 are probably the better candidates, T85 seems to lack in the field of fire area but it gets a quad 20 mount with belt feed, and T100 has .60 caliber guns and a tracking radar, but that means it would be put at a rather high spot
another good candidate would be the T10E1 MGMC
it's a M16, but replace the .50s with a pair of drum-fed Hispano 20mm, much like the Israeli TCM-20
We need the GLAADS prototype at 8.3-8.7, Dual 25mm guns, with dual ammo feed for air and ground, thermal sight with extreme zoom for tracking, mounted on MICV-65 chassis it would be like an ADATS without radar or missiles. Then we also need to buff the Sgt York, it's seriously lacking in terms of its real life capability, surprisingly enough, it should be able shoot out to 7-8kms, have instant ammo switching and more ammo in it's primary magazine for M822 which should arm at 200m away not 500 and have a 6.5 meter trigger radius against aircraft. It would make it usable against the late 80ties and 90ties threats it was designed against. Should probably move up a little in battle rating.
The US does not need a new tank, just need M19 or at least M42 to get the proxy fuse that almost all carried. It really is crazy how the nation the invented proxy fuse ammo does not get it untill such a high BR it no longer matters do to SAMs being in use. Also was first to invent wire guided missiles (TOW) but everyone else gets it first. Clearly no anti USA bias at all in the game. Right?
The US isn’t desperate for AA because all their tanks have a .50 on the roof which tears aircraft to shreds anyway
A TEC video that's under 20 minutes? It can't be.
we need more vehicle videos like this
Japan is even worse, only by a little tho.
Also anyone that says/thinks CAS isnt ridiculous OP is either lying or delusional
France could use an M16 halfback in their tree. They used them post war.
Why cant Surface to air missiles just work correctly in war thunder 😂
Or... make cas much more expensive to spawn in
i just wish the adats didnt go up in cost after every death
note: the .60 cal guns are 15.2mm
C-RAM Centurion Phalax next please!!! This would be great around 10.3-10.7
We need more Aa ℹ like all of these mid tier spaa
Or the m114 recon variant that would be at 6.0. Basically a m114 with a 20mm gun similar to the R3 or amx 10p
could just give us the proxy fuze shells that won the war for the allies
Nope and can't have wire guided missile (TOW) in the era they were made but have to wait till way after russia who gets them at a unreasonably early BR. Nope no bias in the game at all....
There is just a bit of a conundrum here. As someone who equally loves and hates CAS, depending of being the recipient or deliverer~ making CAS less and less playable outlines the next problem: Air RB is the most dogshit mode in existence and I would rather play Naval Arcade while wearing swimming goggles filled with acid than ever touching that again.
So Gaijin will remove yet another bit of the "choice of gameplay" we have which is not much to begin with. I´ve been preaching for the longest time that variety in game modes and more choice for the players is long overdue. The silly "nOt EnOuGh PlAyErS" excuse Gaijin used for so many years is really not valid anymore and has been for quite a while.
They should continue to add more AA and clean Ground RB of the disgustingly overused CAS, BUT they should also add new Game modes where CAS maybe is the main Focus or one of the two Major parts of the game mode. Like Air RB Enduring Confrontation, this way Ground players finally can play tank vs tank combat and not being the basketball hoop for 12000lbs bombs, while people who enjoy CAS can go play EC.
EC would fix 2 issues, it would relive Ground RB of CAS and it would make Air to Air Combat way more interesting and less braindead as Air RB.
But yeah I know, 80% of the playerbase going "Skill Issue", "Tiger to 3.3" and "Lol get rekt, I just want my North-South Tanzania Techtree because I am a fucking 2 IQ twat that pays his shit in WT with moms Credit Card" oh and of course "I like braindead modes since it matches my Brain capacity so stfu no new stuff because I am a selfish little twat with smol pp".
I always put off grinding out the SPAAs of techtrees.
I'm slogging through the USSR tech tree right now (got to 8.7 today) and I still havent even researched any SPAA beyond Tier 1.
I just dont want to spend that much RP to get my SPAAs up to 8.7 when I could instead research both the T64 and T80 for roughly the same amount of RP.
The Issue with US SPAA is actually extra bad when you consider that you get essentially the same vehicle twice later on, and the CGMC is all but useless. As someone who played through the whole tree, the M16 was flat out your best bet until the 163 and Sgt. York.... Let me make that extra clear, the 2 STARTER SPAAGs are the most effective, all the way until you get radar assisted machines. That is the issue.
I feel like a tech tree where a large chunk of its bread and butter vehicles come with built in SPAA (hint: .50 CALS) shouldn't really complain about not having open topped CAS food.
I would just move every AAA 1 BR down and make every ground player happy for not being bombed or sniped in Spawn from 6km away :D HURah problem fixed
You said that Germany had good mid tier AA, that would be? I mean there isn’t very useful AA between 5.3 and 8.3, Kugel doesn’t have a lineup and Wiesel isn’t aa
in my opinion the the T77 at 3.3/3.7 the T52 4.0/4.3 and the T100 at 5.7/6.0 would be the best fit to fill the gaps in the tech tree
We had enough bofors canone . I'll would see the m24&m41 chassis with cannon. Or better ammunition for m19&m42
Since we're talking about SPAA, imagine Abram AGDS lol. IDC if they replace the ADAT with AGDS.
I think sweden needs more AA too cuz those single canon AA can't hit anything and they are better against tank while lvkv42 easily runs out of ammo cuz of low ammo + high fire rate
right now the spaa US needs the most is something (preferably more than one) rapid fire AA in the 4.0-6.0 range
T77 would be awesome, 6 fiftys dak dak daking at the same time is precisely what the US tech tree needs even if it hardly bridges the gap
I still want the Cadillac Gage Commando it opens room for all the variants and some that can be AA. Oh and the T22 with a 75mm aa gun
Thb every thech tree in War thunder needs more SPAAs or smoe kind of mechanic thats gonna help them be better in their role. Some of them are more like tank destroyers than SPAAs.
the M2 halftrack Elco B-6 could be added as well. just a halftrack with 4 20mms and 2 .50 cals
Chaffee or sherman body, I don't want a junky hull and I DONT want for 40mm
50 cals are somehow more reliable than the m42 and m19 and since the t34,29, and 30 has 3 of those, it’s practically the most armored spaa ever
the T-249/250 vigilante would be perfect before the LAV-AD
I would love the T77, T52, and T100 I hope they seriously add these things
Thank you for this. My friends and I have been talking about this for several years
I don't think America needs any AA tbh, they have the best aviation through all tiers
And literally none of them will come to the game because gaijin hates America.
T77 is all I want, that thing would dominate from 5.3 to 8.0.
The Sherman looks super clean, seriously that thing is sexy as hell.
Do you think they could add the T249 Vigilante?
american air craft kinda slaps at those ranks bro so they got the option to be the cas itself
a Humvee with a M134 minigun XD BR 5.3
We need more wheeled vehicles for low and mid tier for all countries
My country really is Warhammer 40k orks
HMMWV with a M134 on a turret, is it too much to ask?
does M42 have proximity round irl?
Not only does the US need a few mid tiers, it could definitely use a new top tier, something that is a true AA, the adats is a TD with AA abilities, and its ok, but America deserves a proper AA now
"Am I a joke to you" -LAV II AD
@@Thorgon-Cross LAV-AD isn't good at top tier, its nice where it is but any higher its pretty bad cause you run into even more heli's.
The Adats was really good 2 years ago, but now its fallen behind, it as a whole can't compete with other top tier AA's, and gotten really old, it been the top tier AA for years now while all the other main nations have been getting better machines, Russia got the pantsir, china got the TOR, Britain's was horrible so even tho they still got only an adats, it was a major leap for them lol.
And then there's America in the corner.... still using the adats that they got like 4 years ago.
@@carsonmarks4532 Go download a sense of sarcasm bro. :P I really should start marking comments as a joke.
@@Thorgon-Cross no 💩, but your joke is unbelievably garbage and doesn't even make sense when you think about it.
Sadly America didn’t develop SPAA’s and instead went for stuff like the Nike or Patriot System, they could add a few though, like the Stryker Shorad maybe
“The problem”??? Spookston reference????
I was just thinking of this yesterday
omg italy needs a new end of the line spaa ;(
America does not need anything.
wym by usa anti air "problem" i don't see any XD
Usa ardy domain in air thed don't need aa
the T69 would be a fun rat tank
I think you play up CAS to a ridiculous degree. CAS is not as prevalent a problem as you make it out to be. Literally every damn tank now acts as its own AA and can do a good job of it.
All you need is skink. Skink is life
we need rank4 spaa not mor rank 2 and 3
Need 20 mm or 25 no more 40 40s suck
t69 aka infantry mower
The M24 with 6 .50 cals would be cool. but knowing Gaijin they would give each gun like, 15 rounds and a 20 second reload.
I mean, do they need more AA? Every american tank is a SPAA.
That's true. Those 50cals work wonders sometimes.
Same goes for the MGs on soviet tanks. Very fun weapons to just shred through some planes with.
ITALIA SPAA Anti-Air Problem ?
Could also add the t249 vigilante as a middle ground between the duster and the m163 and put it at lets say 6.7
The T52 appears to be a response to hearing about the kugelblitz. :-)
you forgot T250 Vigilante!
I believe that there was also a m42 prototype that had radar
Would love to see the m1 liberty 1 and 2 to come to the game
Germany has horrible AA
play CAS vs Germany AA and you'll no longer think that. Non open top and kill you in one hit with rapid firing quad cannons, they have the best in the game.
@@Thorgon-Cross non open top you mean the Kugelblitz at literally 7.0
Where the British have the skunk and crusader AA at a much lower br.
Germany has only slow panzer 4 open top AA with no pen armour or speed.
Like every nation has modern Anti tank AA or modern fast firing AA at a low br
Germany is with the US completely f...ed when talking about AA.
Germanys Frist modern AA is the Wiesel with no armour and no ammo. The Wiesel also literally isn't a AA in real life its a light tank made for Paratroopers (same as the asu 57)
@@0815Catgus Ok yes mister picky there is a small opening on the top that you maybe, but rarely can without crashing, shot through when you dive on them. With 20mm rarely going through the armor and such a small gap to aim for they are basically unkillable with without bomb or multiple direct hits from rockets. Again I point out at starting at a low tier they reliably kill any plane, even jets, with just one hit. Out all the nations german AA shoots me down with the lest effort by a MASSIVE margin.
@@Thorgon-Cross again Germanys first closed AA is at 7.0
Every AA before that is as i said
A Panzer 4 with no pen and armour.
Also as i said before
Germany has no AAs that are able to pen tanks and Germany has no Modern AA at low Tier.
Wich makes their AA objectively worse than most other Nations AAs.
Shoot 1 Rocket at a Ostwind / II Wirbelwind and its gone, Strave it one time and if the dude isn't lvl 100 with 150 Crew its gone.
German AA is Trash because its slow has no armour no pen and shoots slow compared to modern AAs at the same BR.
@@Thorgon-Cross the new Italian AA is easily better than all german AA combined till the Ostwind 2.
Two most annoying ground battle player types: American cas, and Chinese heli players.
US don’t need spaa they can just use their cas and fighter planes
Not everyone plays the air trees
Flawed logic. Having more than one way to deal with aircraft and still being able to take capture points is critical to winning a game. If you get 2 spawns and you can’t follow up with a CAS frag, then you’re back to the hangar. If you lose your SPAA without a kill, you usually can still bring out a 3rd tank to try to turn the tide on the ground.
@@IxTwistyyUse the A4E if you have a high tier tank
@@IxTwistyy Then why do people complain about CAS if they aren't willing to play the thing that was designed from the ground up to prevent bombing's and CAS?
@@bluentei5048 Gee I dunno chief, maybe they wanna play tanks and not aircraft
What about Israel?
ye rooikat sam good idea