12:33 Mismagius was not banned in standard until Summer 2020 and was definitely legal after Reset Stamp was released. There was a top 16 deck in Nov 2019 which used both cards.
@@matthewkuscienko4616 God, Rayquaza is a funny one. Being able to discard your hand to draw 3 cards on a non once per turn basis still sounds utterly insane to me
Still recent so I may be proven wrong by history, but Regidrago VSTAR got a lot of hype for standard format and has yet to do anything (which I always knew would be the case haha). At least it’s one of the stupidest cards in expanded!
@@Jgreen69 It's once per turn per copy, so you can use the ability of multiple Rayquaza on the field similar to how Zoroark was used previously. It's essentially a soft once per turn for Yugioh
Honourable mention goes to the combination of Imposter Oak’s Revenge (a Trainer card that lets you shuffle the opponent’s hand back into their deck and lets them draw 4 new cards, at the cost of 1 card discarded from your hand), Rocket’s Sneak Attack (a Trainer card that lets you shuffle 1 Trainer card from your opponent’s hand back into their deck, at no cost) and The Rocket’s Trap (A card that shuffles 3 random cards from your opponent’s hand back into their deck, on a successful coin toss). These three Trainer cards can absolutely cripple the opponent’s hand, and because they were essentially item cards (supporters didn’t exist when these were first printed), this could all do down on the first turn. While this isn’t a donk per se, hence why I don’t think it would be eligible for this list, your only hope to survive such an early-game onslaught is if you hard-drew into a Professor Oak when your turn finally came up (at a ratio of 4 Oaks in a roughly 50 card deck-or worse 4 out of exactly 53 if your bench was empty-that’s some slim odds indeed). Only once Neo Genesis’ Cleffa released was there finally some reliable counterplay to these three hand destruction trainers. Pokémon introduced the Supporter classification for Trainer cards pretty soon thereafter in the Expedition Base Set and all prior sets that had these busted Trainers would eventually rotate out of Standard. Nowadays an effect as busted as The Rocket’s Trap and Rocket’s Sneak Attack will never be printed onto an Item card again. And while we have seen Imposter Oak’s Revenge return as an Item card named Red Card, that card would eventually get banned in Expanded.
i did this for a time, on the online simulator TCG ONE. I would also combo the trainer card Erika, to draw through my deck, giving my opponent the false sense of security, before suddenly dropping imposter professor oaks revenge, and going for the rockets sneak attack and the rockets trap coin flip. can't remember what pokemon i used in the deck, but i liked to use Misty's Wrath to dig through the deck, and use the promo energy absorption Mewtwo at the end of the turn, to grab back energies i might have discarded with Wrath. same deal with Rockets Zapdos, which grabs a lightning from the discard pile for 1 lightning energy!
It is kind of insane the variety of FTKs that exist with gen 4 cards alone. Kingdra Prime, Machamp, Sableye and Shuppet, Dunsparce were all running around in the same format. Really happy that these strategies are less common these days, even in expanded because Pokemon really doesn't have many options when it comes to disruption, which makes FTKs even more degenerate than they would be in other card games. My personal favorite of these being Unown Damage, which could move and loop damage till you had accumulated 660 damage across your entire board. Love how indepth the Shiftry section was, as it showed that it was really more the cards around it that broke a very mundane coinflip card
I love these videos about the history of the TCG, really glad i found this channel. Only thing that i dislike is the reading out of all the attacks and abilities on a pokemon. i feel like it would be better if you just explained the things that are important to the video for time's sake, the card is on the screen to read anyway
Everyone who doesn’t know about uxie-donk is incredibly lucky. The goal was to use every single one of your 60 cards on the first turn attack like shuppet did, then put it on the bottom of your now empty deck. It had the power to draw till you have 7 cards in your hand so you could just draw all of the plus power and expert belt right back next turn. My dad would practice with me using that deck and I’d just go eat dinner while he took his first turn.
That Sableye card is the specific reason why me as a child realized that Pokémon in general can be strong even if they don’t seem strong. TheJWittz’s Top 10 Pokémon video included a shoutout to Prankster Sableye and Overeager Sableye as Pokémon that brought him a lot of success in competitive Pokémon games and I was like “WHAAAAAT”
So I just built an app to help players better understand what is and is not Expanded-legal on Pokemon TCG Live, since the format is different on Live than in paper, and the Live client does a TERRIBLE job telling you what is and is not legal in Expanded and why. As I was writing the ban list logic, I was asking myself why a lot of cards were even there (Oranguru, Red Stamp, Mismagius). Now it allll makes sense, haha.
Sabldonk was one of the most unique types of donk decks. It offered so much variety and even late-game power depending on the SP pokemon you decided to build around with the SP engine outside of the Crobats, Poke Turns in case of missing the donk. SP Sprays could keep the opponent's setup crippled even if they don't get donked from having more than one basic out. I loved playing Sabldonk with Garchomp C and Blaziken FB. Even got a 2nd place on a State Championship with it.
Incredibly relevant and interesting video. Considering the release of TCG Pocket, Misty now could be added to this list as an inconsistent- but possible- instant win condition. Pocket allowing supporters on the first turn is fine, but not when attacking on the first turn is allowed, and not when the supporter has heavily rng-dependant acceleration that can ohko starters before the second player can take a turn at all!
I really don't understand why they felt the need to fix what isn't broken. Turn 1 no supporter no attack but yes energy is fine, but the way pocket does it completely flipping the script gives a massive advantage going second on most games *and* enables a game where the second player straight up doesn't get a single turn if the first player runs Misty
Pheromosa GX is a better version of Latiox EX, because grass type in TCG can hit something for weakness (dragon can't) and it can utilize Beast Energy. Marshadow GX and MewMew GX can use Pheromosa GX turn 1 attack with their ability. It's remain the one true DONK in Expanded.
Not necessarily, some lists run diancie prism which makes marshadow deal 20 more damage, matching pheromosa damage output when copying latios And recently an actually quite consistent donk deck appeared: dialga donk (a combination of electrode GX, dialga v star, Cyrus prime, scramble switch and Giratina & garchomp tag team) you can see the full list in the expanded section of the deck section of limitless TCG play
@@gnoite I know this deck, I lose to it in two or three different 8-person Tournaments on Pokemon TCG Online. However it isn't true DONK, because it can't with on first turn
It's crazy to think that all those lockdown, handloops and OTK shenanigans are considered extremely unhealthy when in Yu-Gi-Oh it became the norm since many years now
Meloetta in fusion strike was great for donks because it could do 210 damage turn 1 with Else's Sparkle, additional damage with power tablets and amazing draw support with Genesect EX. Although since there there was no way to attack 1st turn going 1st, this wasn't technically a donk deck, but it was a great donk option for a deck that was great in it's own right
"Thanks to cards like Broken Time-Space not being designed for a format like that at all." No, I think the card was deliberately designed to teach players that this type of format should never come close to the game.
nothing beats a good Wailord/ Unown win. there are currently 2 Unown cards on the ban list, and for good reason. one Unown wins you the game, if you have like 30-40 cards in your hand. while the other one wins you the game, if you have like 66 damage counters in play. with cards like reuinclus, you can damage swapping to your wailords, while abusing magmas secret base and scoop ups etc, to build up the damage! incredibly rogue, but so so funny if you pull it off!
TOW Decks? I like that name so much better than "FTK". Not fond of the style, feels more like it oughta be debug testing for a TCG than showing how you can play solitaire.
tbh i think bans are a necessary part of maintaining a healthy game. you can't expect devs to be aware of every possible niche combination of cards, and sometimes that can lead to game breaking side effects when the game is played on a wide enough time scale. If you never ban anything, the game just becomes overrun with power creep, taking out so much of the strategy and competition of the game. That's kinda my biggest issue with YGO, losing in a single turn because your opponent drew a good hand just isn't very fun.
How do any of these cards create a turn 1 win? You failed to provide even one example. I doubt any of these cards could take out 6 basic Pokemon or 3 ex/V Pokemon on turn 1.
With Honchkrow GX, you could effectively end it turn 1 by making your opponent unable to play. You can use cards like the aforementioned Mismagius in combination with Reset Stamp to get your opponent low on cards in hand and then use Honchkrow's GX attack to put them in top decking mode.
Also, you're forgetting that you can only bench the pokemon you start with in hand. This means that most people will only have 1-3 pokemon on the bench before their first turn. And 1 is the common etiquette nowadays so usually 1 KO wins the game.
Also, I just watched through the video... and you are very obviously missing Porydonk in this list. Porydonk is unquestionably the most powerful turn 1 deck in the history of the TCG. It is hilariously consistent. And the only thing you mentioned in relation to it was a small blurb about Seeker...
12:33 Mismagius was not banned in standard until Summer 2020 and was definitely legal after Reset Stamp was released. There was a top 16 deck in Nov 2019 which used both cards.
Could you make a video about cards that people assumed would be good based on pre-release info, but ended up being rarely if ever played?
I can think of a few, including:
*Greedent Vmax
*Rayquaza Vmax
*Reshiram + Zekrom Tag Team GX
*Darkrai V Star (most recently)
@@matthewkuscienko4616 God, Rayquaza is a funny one. Being able to discard your hand to draw 3 cards on a non once per turn basis still sounds utterly insane to me
@@munchrai6396 it is once per turn
Still recent so I may be proven wrong by history, but Regidrago VSTAR got a lot of hype for standard format and has yet to do anything (which I always knew would be the case haha). At least it’s one of the stupidest cards in expanded!
@@Jgreen69 It's once per turn per copy, so you can use the ability of multiple Rayquaza on the field similar to how Zoroark was used previously. It's essentially a soft once per turn for Yugioh
Honourable mention goes to the combination of Imposter Oak’s Revenge (a Trainer card that lets you shuffle the opponent’s hand back into their deck and lets them draw 4 new cards, at the cost of 1 card discarded from your hand), Rocket’s Sneak Attack (a Trainer card that lets you shuffle 1 Trainer card from your opponent’s hand back into their deck, at no cost) and The Rocket’s Trap (A card that shuffles 3 random cards from your opponent’s hand back into their deck, on a successful coin toss). These three Trainer cards can absolutely cripple the opponent’s hand, and because they were essentially item cards (supporters didn’t exist when these were first printed), this could all do down on the first turn.
While this isn’t a donk per se, hence why I don’t think it would be eligible for this list, your only hope to survive such an early-game onslaught is if you hard-drew into a Professor Oak when your turn finally came up (at a ratio of 4 Oaks in a roughly 50 card deck-or worse 4 out of exactly 53 if your bench was empty-that’s some slim odds indeed). Only once Neo Genesis’ Cleffa released was there finally some reliable counterplay to these three hand destruction trainers.
Pokémon introduced the Supporter classification for Trainer cards pretty soon thereafter in the Expedition Base Set and all prior sets that had these busted Trainers would eventually rotate out of Standard. Nowadays an effect as busted as The Rocket’s Trap and Rocket’s Sneak Attack will never be printed onto an Item card again. And while we have seen Imposter Oak’s Revenge return as an Item card named Red Card, that card would eventually get banned in Expanded.
i did this for a time, on the online simulator TCG ONE. I would also combo the trainer card Erika, to draw through my deck, giving my opponent the false sense of security, before suddenly dropping imposter professor oaks revenge, and going for the rockets sneak attack and the rockets trap coin flip. can't remember what pokemon i used in the deck, but i liked to use Misty's Wrath to dig through the deck, and use the promo energy absorption Mewtwo at the end of the turn, to grab back energies i might have discarded with Wrath. same deal with Rockets Zapdos, which grabs a lightning from the discard pile for 1 lightning energy!
It is kind of insane the variety of FTKs that exist with gen 4 cards alone. Kingdra Prime, Machamp, Sableye and Shuppet, Dunsparce were all running around in the same format. Really happy that these strategies are less common these days, even in expanded because Pokemon really doesn't have many options when it comes to disruption, which makes FTKs even more degenerate than they would be in other card games. My personal favorite of these being Unown Damage, which could move and loop damage till you had accumulated 660 damage across your entire board. Love how indepth the Shiftry section was, as it showed that it was really more the cards around it that broke a very mundane coinflip card
I love these videos about the history of the TCG, really glad i found this channel. Only thing that i dislike is the reading out of all the attacks and abilities on a pokemon. i feel like it would be better if you just explained the things that are important to the video for time's sake, the card is on the screen to read anyway
You could have mentioned Jirachi Ex, who was used with island challenge amulet and N. Remember it vividly when amulet released and got it banned.
Everyone who doesn’t know about uxie-donk is incredibly lucky. The goal was to use every single one of your 60 cards on the first turn attack like shuppet did, then put it on the bottom of your now empty deck. It had the power to draw till you have 7 cards in your hand so you could just draw all of the plus power and expert belt right back next turn. My dad would practice with me using that deck and I’d just go eat dinner while he took his first turn.
That Sableye card is the specific reason why me as a child realized that Pokémon in general can be strong even if they don’t seem strong. TheJWittz’s Top 10 Pokémon video included a shoutout to Prankster Sableye and Overeager Sableye as Pokémon that brought him a lot of success in competitive Pokémon games and I was like “WHAAAAAT”
Always nice to see the history of the game.
So I just built an app to help players better understand what is and is not Expanded-legal on Pokemon TCG Live, since the format is different on Live than in paper, and the Live client does a TERRIBLE job telling you what is and is not legal in Expanded and why.
As I was writing the ban list logic, I was asking myself why a lot of cards were even there (Oranguru, Red Stamp, Mismagius). Now it allll makes sense, haha.
Sabldonk was one of the most unique types of donk decks. It offered so much variety and even late-game power depending on the SP pokemon you decided to build around with the SP engine outside of the Crobats, Poke Turns in case of missing the donk. SP Sprays could keep the opponent's setup crippled even if they don't get donked from having more than one basic out. I loved playing Sabldonk with Garchomp C and Blaziken FB. Even got a 2nd place on a State Championship with it.
Incredibly relevant and interesting video. Considering the release of TCG Pocket, Misty now could be added to this list as an inconsistent- but possible- instant win condition. Pocket allowing supporters on the first turn is fine, but not when attacking on the first turn is allowed, and not when the supporter has heavily rng-dependant acceleration that can ohko starters before the second player can take a turn at all!
I really don't understand why they felt the need to fix what isn't broken.
Turn 1 no supporter no attack but yes energy is fine, but the way pocket does it completely flipping the script gives a massive advantage going second on most games *and* enables a game where the second player straight up doesn't get a single turn if the first player runs Misty
Huge fan! Really cool that your going into multiple tcg’s
Pheromosa GX is a better version of Latiox EX, because grass type in TCG can hit something for weakness (dragon can't) and it can utilize Beast Energy.
Marshadow GX and MewMew GX can use Pheromosa GX turn 1 attack with their ability.
It's remain the one true DONK in Expanded.
Not necessarily, some lists run diancie prism which makes marshadow deal 20 more damage, matching pheromosa damage output when copying latios
And recently an actually quite consistent donk deck appeared: dialga donk (a combination of electrode GX, dialga v star, Cyrus prime, scramble switch and Giratina & garchomp tag team) you can see the full list in the expanded section of the deck section of limitless TCG play
@@gnoite I know this deck, I lose to it in two or three different 8-person Tournaments on Pokemon TCG Online. However it isn't true DONK, because it can't with on first turn
@@Kostyurik true
My favorite of 1st turn win decks is GO Lunatone/Solrock. Just so fun, even if it doesn't get the first turn win
I would add welder to the list. Nice video!
Great video Rahul and Lily
I only played casually as a child and didn't even know first turn wins were a thing in the pokemon tcg 😮
It's crazy to think that all those lockdown, handloops and OTK shenanigans are considered extremely unhealthy when in Yu-Gi-Oh it became the norm since many years now
I use to love donking Nightmarch with Latios
Meloetta in fusion strike was great for donks because it could do 210 damage turn 1 with Else's Sparkle, additional damage with power tablets and amazing draw support with Genesect EX. Although since there there was no way to attack 1st turn going 1st, this wasn't technically a donk deck, but it was a great donk option for a deck that was great in it's own right
Best artwork, most unique interaction(s)
"Thanks to cards like Broken Time-Space not being designed for a format like that at all."
No, I think the card was deliberately designed to teach players that this type of format should never come close to the game.
Oh god, I had three of those Machamps in my gen 4 deck, and it made so many of my friends rage...
nothing beats a good Wailord/ Unown win. there are currently 2 Unown cards on the ban list, and for good reason.
one Unown wins you the game, if you have like 30-40 cards in your hand. while the other one wins you the game, if you have like 66 damage counters in play. with cards like reuinclus, you can damage swapping to your wailords, while abusing magmas secret base and scoop ups etc, to build up the damage! incredibly rogue, but so so funny if you pull it off!
I tried and couldn't win in unlimited maybe someday 😅
I used to use a Latios Donk deck all the time, it was amazing
ah yes i remember those days of shaymin ex and super scoop up. the banes of my existence.
You make me want to play TCG again
I would like to see a video about the Ban List for Gym Leader Challenge.
TOW Decks? I like that name so much better than "FTK".
Not fond of the style, feels more like it oughta be debug testing for a TCG than showing how you can play solitaire.
12:50
Wasn’t roaring skies from xy?
Yeah
Naming my kid Chip-Chip Ice Axe
Where in XY did Pokemon TCG become YGO? So many bans.
Most of these were from the Expanded Format because Honchkrow GX and N were never standard legal at the same time. N rotated out in 2018.
tbh i think bans are a necessary part of maintaining a healthy game. you can't expect devs to be aware of every possible niche combination of cards, and sometimes that can lead to game breaking side effects when the game is played on a wide enough time scale. If you never ban anything, the game just becomes overrun with power creep, taking out so much of the strategy and competition of the game. That's kinda my biggest issue with YGO, losing in a single turn because your opponent drew a good hand just isn't very fun.
fun video, but i feel like it’s being held back due to the lack of proofreading or research in the script, or oversights in the editing and recording.
Diamond and pearl era allowed you to actually play any cards on Turn 1
Where was tpci when mew vmax deck was released
How can honchkrow turn 1 win. It by design takes two turns to hit the board
Why isn't this video known as "FTK Enablers"?
FTK isnt really a term in Pokémon TCG
that sounds like something a Yu-Gi-Oh player would say.
So uhhh… would Turn 2 Terapagos ex 240 damage Unified Beatdown cuz’ of Area Zero Underdepths stadium be a “donk deck”
Ah yes Latios ex secret my first Ex
Shaymin EX every time, huh?
mfw this channel isn't named The Oak Logs
mfw I have no face
oo-xie😅
man do you know that that is xy not black and white? you keep saying black and white in your videos
What are you talking about. Some cards here are black and white era
@@boxkid759 are you stupid bro? he said"Black and white Roaring Skies".
Including shay is really pointless, may as well include bicycle, acro bike, ultra ball, etc. As those are also used but not key to what is done.
waus
So much misinformation
How do any of these cards create a turn 1 win? You failed to provide even one example. I doubt any of these cards could take out 6 basic Pokemon or 3 ex/V Pokemon on turn 1.
With Honchkrow GX, you could effectively end it turn 1 by making your opponent unable to play. You can use cards like the aforementioned Mismagius in combination with Reset Stamp to get your opponent low on cards in hand and then use Honchkrow's GX attack to put them in top decking mode.
@@TheForeverRanger Ok, thanks for offering some ideas.
Also, you're forgetting that you can only bench the pokemon you start with in hand. This means that most people will only have 1-3 pokemon on the bench before their first turn. And 1 is the common etiquette nowadays so usually 1 KO wins the game.
Jesus Christ loves you
Also, I just watched through the video... and you are very obviously missing Porydonk in this list. Porydonk is unquestionably the most powerful turn 1 deck in the history of the TCG. It is hilariously consistent. And the only thing you mentioned in relation to it was a small blurb about Seeker...
BTS is kind of representing it on the list
"Unquestionably" lmao sableye is literally better at it by far and the only viable deck in unlimited but ok
Sadly not very good anymore attacking just to slow