Incredible production! I love the topic of Christ relationship to Dionysus... where it gets really interesting is in symbolism, epithets, rituals and mysteries which are not just common, but mean and convey the same thing in the context which they exist and are invoked. For anyone interested in the esoteric argument I am referring to I am going to copy/pasta below a run-down of it I laid out for a Christian in the past: "The foundational myth of Orphism is that after Zagreus is born, his father Saturn and the titans sacrifice him, dismembering his body and devouring his flesh, Zues smites them all, and humanity is born out of the ashes retaining the "divine spark" vis a vis twice-born Dionysus from the event. The foundational myth of Christ's divinity is that the God "the Father" sacrifices his son, who is resurrected and redeems the members of humanity who embibe the "holy spirit" i.e. born again in name of their diety. In both cases what the ritual, Eucharist or Orphic sacrifice, is dramatizing is the participants devouring the flesh of the diety who represents unity, in order to escape the suffering of their mortal individuation by initation into eternal life of the cult(or at least cult which promises eternal life). In both cases, the sacrifice of the deity represents the way their own material body is ultimately sacrificed as well. This extends to the shared association with wine, the vine, the mysteries he performs surrounding it. The symbolism of wine represents and achieves the same metaphysical truth in both cases, which is to dissolve the individual into the eternal spirit/collective, you drink wine as a communion, the ritual coming together, which is precisely the same process the wine represents in to the Bacchus cults. [In reference a claim the Christian made that wine merely represents "life"]>>>The extent that it is a symbol of life at all is wholely related to fertility, which, again, stems from its role as aphrodesiac and facilitative role in the rejoing of divided parts, male and female, into the unity of intercourse in which life is born. The blood of the diety is wine because it lowers inhibitions, it unleashes passions, love, feelings of joy and revelry, all the platitudes that Jesus is associated with. The very act of ritual canibalism of your own Diety can not be understand in any other than the Orphic/Dionysian, there is no biblical precedent or explanation for." It is everywhere in the New Testiment, down to the way Jesus rides a donkey during his victorious entry to Jerusalem, the way the Dionysus and satyrs rode donkeys to victory against Titans
You are wrong and you are silly. As is this video, mostly. Dionysus was up to many weird things that Jesus was not. People drank wine for dinner. The Last Supper. Not the Last Orgy.
I have studied this subject for thirty years, but I never grow tired of hearing others pontificate on it and this man does an outstanding job. Thank you sir.....,
Orphic mysteries seems to focus on the idea of ceasing the reincarnation proccess after becoming initiated and learning ways to cease the cycle of death and rebirth the golden neclaces put with the dead to guide them in the underworld are an example of this.
Very interesting ideas and facts, that show a clear indication that Christianity wasn't OUT OF THE BLEU, but PERHAPS more of a symbolic religion to unify the Roman Empire with its multiple paganistic rituals. Again, thanks AGR team and Michali!
Christianity may borrow some customs from ancient Greece like for example the "kolliva" for the dead but we cannot compare a semigod figure of Mythology and the God himself ! Jesus Christ left to us the holy scripts, that's why He's called "Logos" as another name. Holy Bible is the testament that He left to us. He even called himself as the Truth! No one could claim such a title. He even said to love our enemies, something that even today it's too difficult to understand or to make it happen in reality! Did Dionysus left a script? So many Saints have seen Him ! So many have felt Him. Has Dionysus been seen by someone? Dionysus was god of wine, not for bread too (if I am not mistaken). Jesus Christ is for both which is for the flesh and the blood of himself. Wine for Dionysus was only the simple wine and nothing more. Jesus Christ with his blood & wine, can make us like "gods" by grace and not because we deserve it and we can live for an eternity. We cannot compare the two. It's like a blasphemy. (good presentation though (video effects & video footage)).
@@nkarafo There are definitely differences. And in this episode we expanded only on a single side of that theory, which is proposed by people like James George Frazer (The Golden Bough), Joseph Campbell and others. You are right in pointing not to confuse "form with content" but on the other hand Dionysus was not a superficial god either. That is mainly a Christian dismissal. He too was a god of bread, indirectly of course, in the form of wheat. He was an agrarian god of the harvest and the cycle of the seasons. And then there were the Lenaia (Λήναια), an annual festival in honour of Dionysus, where a "theophania" (θεοφάνια) was believed to happen. Plato's Symposium happens during the Lenaia, and Alcibiades appears at the end as another Dionysus. So it was very real for those who worshiped. More so that for most Christians today who follow a dead ritual.
Of course not. Jesus is Osiris and Dionsyus revisited, or better, in a jewish guise, speaking to the jews, and in jewish fashion. Thus it is clear that it was a myth devised to draw the Jewish population closer to the paganism of their rulers, the romans, who ruled both Greece and Egypt. Except that it backfired completely, and we're still paying for it today.
Μπράβο παιδιά. Ωραία κείμενα, σκηνοθεσία και συνολική παρουσίαση. Η θεματογραφία σας, απαραίτητη για το επίπεδο υγρασίας που χρειάζονται οι φωλιές νερού μέσα στο καμένο δάσος.
That's more like it. I agree with all of the points made. Have you looked into any of the recent revelations made regarding ancient pagan temples with relics hidden under the vatican?
That ankh is often associated with the mirror of venus , the handle represents the cross of matter the bull and the circle the spirit the mouth . The circle represents the breath of life . To become an ankh means to be true of mouth , dogs in egypt represented death but it represents the id primal man or survival needs , remember anubis and Isis represent the dog sirius . They blow the breath of life in it which nenotes true of mouth an ankh , the elohim are ankhs . A wolf is a wolf you can dress it up in white garments and it's still a wolf .
Serious question - would you consider "The Shining" to be Dionysian religion type movie? Blood, terror. Jack's name is very like Iacch. He is determined to go out in an isolated place and dismember his little son.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited King has never identified as a Christian and his books and movies are insulting to Christians, like almost all Hollywood movies. Carrie.
Too bad you never saw it. There is a portrait of an Native American mother goddess in the hotel at the start of the film. Mixing away, I believe she represents Kybele, also. Blood orgies and the unconscious.
DyonIsus is a Thracian God, adopted by the Greeks as many other things. The Christianity has a lot of similarities with the Thracian Oprhism / Not the Greek one.
Forms of Dionysus existed in Minoan Crete. Ηis association with bulls probably came from there. Remember that the Greek word for bull (ταύρος), and although it was incorporated pretty early, was not Indo-European in its origin. Bull-worship definitely pre-existed IE culture, and Carl Kerényi made the connection between Dionysus and the sacrificial "bull-god" of Minoan religion. It was precisely this pattern: the sacrificed (or "bleeding") god, that we saw in connection with Christianity.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I don't think they are harvesting anything in December for the solstice. Everything you said just sounded wrong, to me. To change the subject, I remember when the fish symbol became popular in the USA, for Jesus. I always thought it was a terrible symbol. Only last year I came across an ancient account of a temple of Jupiter and some statue that began talking, and in this weird story there was something about Juno and a fish. This fish seemed to have died to feed the world with her body. And this was connected to Christ by the ancient person relating the story. So, this was credited with being the first mention of Christ = fish, by the person writing the web page. (Tried to find the page later, but could not.) You may be aware there is also a bird that was believed to pick flesh from her own breast to feed her baby birds in the nest, and this bird was connected with Christ by the ancients, too. Wine was a late invention, after beer. The Mithras cult was said to use water and bread in their rituals. I'm sure fruit and grain and seeds and flowers and green shoots all had their roles in these ancient cults, some had to do with blood, and some not.
Well, the earliest mentions of Osiris appear to be from the Fifth Dynasty. But you are correct, that is roughly the same with Tammuz. So, I will stand corrected on that.
@@yaruqadishi8326 Well, roughly because Tammuz can be traced to the Early Dynastic Period of Mesopotamia and Osiris to the Fifth Dynasty of Egypt, that both "roughly" pertain to the 25nd century BC. Also, don't think we should separate Dumuzi and Tammuz so much. They were husbands of Inanna, and her cults date as far as 4,000 BC. The whole point of this episode was to show a "god-type" rather than a specific god.
Esau in the bible would be pronounced esus in roman , it is the Egyptian Osiris who is Esau and he is Dyonisis . You will see Dyonisis depicted with the 7 sisters the plaises above him whilst crucified on the cross . In egypt hathor is one of the plaides , in the east the hindu murugan is nursed by the plaides just as dyonisis is . Also in the middle east the mandeans saw their prophet as John the baptist , who is the peacock angel murugans title . John the baptist as enki was the peacock angel or John the baptist was a manifestation of the peacock angel . Enki is associated with samael in the kabbalah and the tree of good and evil , he had a garden in dilum Eden. Osiris was the pharoh at death , and Horus was the living pharoh , every pharoh was the image of horus , the Egyptians named horus apollo in their own language . They made apollo the archangel Micheal the right hand of God and dyonisis samael the left . In the east Apollo is mithral of the persians . Every Roman emporer wanted to be the image of mithra when the emporer died the emporer wanted to be deified. Just like in the religion of Nimrod. Apollo is nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord he denotes a high priest and king . He would be king of the tribe of judah . The tribe of judah are the elohim in the bible the son of God bene elohim . Look what yahweh , Jupiter, said look the man Adam has become one of us knowing good and evil . Yahweh known as muruduk or marduk to the persians was a marud which denoted a warrior in the hindu religion . Over 200 times in the bible it states your God is a man of war . In the bible yahweh perform s the same feats as marduk . Look at the name Djahuty thoth in ancient language the D was interchangeable with t . Look at the name jahud as in judah . In the east thoth was chitragupta, further west he was a " prophet" nebu the son of marduk jupiter . The chaldeans worshipped their ancestors , thoth was a kshatreya as chitragupta a warrior caste who were rulers and aristocracy . The same pattern is reflected in platos republic , I.e his guardians . Oh and the female of dyonisis is venus , they are also associated with mercury and his staff represents the nadis or the chakras . Now I will tell you the animal of apollo is the wolf , the deity that protected the pharoh the dog star sirius the star of Isis . The star of isis is associated in the east with rudra the howler , the male version of the dog star is anubis . John the baptist was a nasorean or nazorean he was a gnostic . The rituals of the nazoreans are similar to the Egyptian,s . Load of crap in that bible your worshipping men . Hathor is the personification of the rauch ha quodesh the holy spirit , the mandeans had that too . Sekemet the lady of the flame proclaims she is the eye of horus as fire . The fire is the son on earth often portrayed on the head dress of the pharoh . Look at moses he goes up a mountain a high place an talks to an ashur a tree , eyah ashur eyah , Iam the ever living ashur . Go look what the sun represents in relation to the soul . In the east it was enki who supposedly made men . Look at his title the magician , a magician makes illusions , his female version venus is called maya illusion. Enki , venus and osiris all associated with providing wealth .
Dyonisis is the son of shiva or cybele, none of you are immortal . Dyonisis rode a donkey to . Dyonisis represents a level of leaving the self and communing with God. Don't lie , there is another story that doesn't involve eating the veg .
Incredible production! I love the topic of Christ relationship to Dionysus... where it gets really interesting is in symbolism, epithets, rituals and mysteries which are not just common, but mean and convey the same thing in the context which they exist and are invoked. For anyone interested in the esoteric argument I am referring to I am going to copy/pasta below a run-down of it I laid out for a Christian in the past:
"The foundational myth of Orphism is that after Zagreus is born, his father Saturn and the titans sacrifice him, dismembering his body and devouring his flesh, Zues smites them all, and humanity is born out of the ashes retaining the "divine spark" vis a vis twice-born Dionysus from the event.
The foundational myth of Christ's divinity is that the God "the Father" sacrifices his son, who is resurrected and redeems the members of humanity who embibe the "holy spirit" i.e. born again in name of their diety.
In both cases what the ritual, Eucharist or Orphic sacrifice, is dramatizing is the participants devouring the flesh of the diety who represents unity, in order to escape the suffering of their mortal individuation by initation into eternal life of the cult(or at least cult which promises eternal life). In both cases, the sacrifice of the deity represents the way their own material body is ultimately sacrificed as well.
This extends to the shared association with wine, the vine, the mysteries he performs surrounding it. The symbolism of wine represents and achieves the same metaphysical truth in both cases, which is to dissolve the individual into the eternal spirit/collective, you drink wine as a communion, the ritual coming together, which is precisely the same process the wine represents in to the Bacchus cults. [In reference a claim the Christian made that wine merely represents "life"]>>>The extent that it is a symbol of life at all is wholely related to fertility, which, again, stems from its role as aphrodesiac and facilitative role in the rejoing of divided parts, male and female, into the unity of intercourse in which life is born. The blood of the diety is wine because it lowers inhibitions, it unleashes passions, love, feelings of joy and revelry, all the platitudes that Jesus is associated with.
The very act of ritual canibalism of your own Diety can not be understand in any other than the Orphic/Dionysian, there is no biblical precedent or explanation for."
It is everywhere in the New Testiment, down to the way Jesus rides a donkey during his victorious entry to Jerusalem, the way the Dionysus and satyrs rode donkeys to victory against Titans
worldsecretssite.wordpress.com/2023/12/01/ga-weg-je-hebt-me-nooit-willen-gehoorzamen/
You are wrong and you are silly. As is this video, mostly. Dionysus was up to many weird things that Jesus was not. People drank wine for dinner. The Last Supper. Not the Last Orgy.
I cannot even comprehend how this video is not already at millions of views… the production value is amazing and the topic is so interesting
I have studied this subject for thirty years, but I never grow tired of hearing others pontificate on it and this man does an outstanding job. Thank you sir.....,
It's a fascinating subject indeed. I first came into contact with it through Joseph Campbell's writings.
He is just BSing, Citations needed for everything he claims.
Orphic mysteries seems to focus on the idea of ceasing the reincarnation proccess after becoming initiated and learning ways to cease the cycle of death and rebirth the golden neclaces put with the dead to guide them in the underworld are an example of this.
I absolutely love everything about your content! Keep it up!
Thanks for the good words!
Amazing quality and content, I'm absolutely in love with these videos
❤️
Δεν υπάρχει μόνο φοβερή αισθητική στο βίντεο μα πάνω από όλα κάθε φορά μια εκπληκτική φιλοσοφική ανάλυση. Θέλουμε κι άλλα, μη σταματάτε!
Greta pilates Ευχαριστούμε πολύ! Δεν σταματάμε 🤩
What of the children of God was foretold in the songs of the ancients,
Look, we are it, ourselves; fruit of Hesperia it is!
Very interesting ideas and facts, that show a clear indication that Christianity wasn't OUT OF THE BLEU, but PERHAPS more of a symbolic religion to unify the Roman Empire with its multiple paganistic rituals. Again, thanks AGR team and Michali!
Well said...
Christianity may borrow some customs from ancient Greece like for example the "kolliva" for the dead but we cannot compare a semigod figure of Mythology and the God himself ! Jesus Christ left to us the holy scripts, that's why He's called "Logos" as another name. Holy Bible is the testament that He left to us. He even called himself as the Truth! No one could claim such a title. He even said to love our enemies, something that even today it's too difficult to understand or to make it happen in reality! Did Dionysus left a script? So many Saints have seen Him ! So many have felt Him. Has Dionysus been seen by someone? Dionysus was god of wine, not for bread too (if I am not mistaken). Jesus Christ is for both which is for the flesh and the blood of himself. Wine for Dionysus was only the simple wine and nothing more. Jesus Christ with his blood & wine, can make us like "gods" by grace and not because we deserve it and we can live for an eternity. We cannot compare the two. It's like a blasphemy. (good presentation though (video effects & video footage)).
@@nkarafo There are definitely differences. And in this episode we expanded only on a single side of that theory, which is proposed by people like James George Frazer (The Golden Bough), Joseph Campbell and others. You are right in pointing not to confuse "form with content" but on the other hand Dionysus was not a superficial god either. That is mainly a Christian dismissal. He too was a god of bread, indirectly of course, in the form of wheat. He was an agrarian god of the harvest and the cycle of the seasons. And then there were the Lenaia (Λήναια), an annual festival in honour of Dionysus, where a "theophania" (θεοφάνια) was believed to happen. Plato's Symposium happens during the Lenaia, and Alcibiades appears at the end as another Dionysus. So it was very real for those who worshiped. More so that for most Christians today who follow a dead ritual.
Of course not. Jesus is Osiris and Dionsyus revisited, or better, in a jewish guise, speaking to the jews, and in jewish fashion. Thus it is clear that it was a myth devised to draw the Jewish population closer to the paganism of their rulers, the romans, who ruled both Greece and Egypt. Except that it backfired completely, and we're still paying for it today.
These are great!
Thank you, appreciated!
Μπράβο παιδιά. Ωραία κείμενα, σκηνοθεσία και συνολική παρουσίαση. Η θεματογραφία σας, απαραίτητη για το επίπεδο υγρασίας που χρειάζονται οι φωλιές νερού μέσα στο καμένο δάσος.
Ευχαριστούμε Άρη!
Brilliant
Thank you!
May we find the Truth, in whatever capacity. Blessings be to you and yours in this endeavor.
Thank you very much..!
@@AncientGreeceRevisited the pleasure was mine.
That's more like it. I agree with all of the points made. Have you looked into any of the recent revelations made regarding ancient pagan temples with relics hidden under the vatican?
No, but these things have a way of revealing themselves in the right moment.
That ankh is often associated with the mirror of venus , the handle represents the cross of matter the bull and the circle the spirit the mouth . The circle represents the breath of life . To become an ankh means to be true of mouth , dogs in egypt represented death but it represents the id primal man or survival needs , remember anubis and Isis represent the dog sirius . They blow the breath of life in it which nenotes true of mouth an ankh , the elohim are ankhs . A wolf is a wolf you can dress it up in white garments and it's still a wolf .
Τρομερός, φανταστική δουλειά!Θα ασχοληθείς καθόλου με τον Πλωτίνο της Αλεξάνδρειας;
Έχουμε ήδη ασχοληθεί, έμμεσα, μέσω του Πορφύριου - ruclips.net/video/dlOep7VODsQ/видео.html
very well done
Serious question - would you consider "The Shining" to be Dionysian religion type movie? Blood, terror. Jack's name is very like Iacch. He is determined to go out in an isolated place and dismember his little son.
I haven’t seen the film, but from what I can remember it’s a Steven King script. King is a Christian through and through, and far from Dionysus.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited King has never identified as a Christian and his books and movies are insulting to Christians, like almost all Hollywood movies. Carrie.
Too bad you never saw it. There is a portrait of an Native American mother goddess in the hotel at the start of the film. Mixing away, I believe she represents Kybele, also. Blood orgies and the unconscious.
DyonIsus is a Thracian God, adopted by the Greeks as many other things. The Christianity has a lot of similarities with the Thracian Oprhism / Not the Greek one.
Forms of Dionysus existed in Minoan Crete. Ηis association with bulls probably came from there. Remember that the Greek word for bull (ταύρος), and although it was incorporated pretty early, was not Indo-European in its origin. Bull-worship definitely pre-existed IE culture, and Carl Kerényi made the connection between Dionysus and the sacrificial "bull-god" of Minoan religion. It was precisely this pattern: the sacrificed (or "bleeding") god, that we saw in connection with Christianity.
Didn't the Thracians beat their women for killing Dionysus?
@@hermanhale9258 no, and this greek false interpretation is about Orpheus.
@@Sma-v4yOh. Must have been that the Thracians beat their women for killing Orpheus!
@@hermanhale9258 not the thracians beated the gay greeks for not behaving as real men.
You are from Greece? You seem very confused about a Mediterranean climate and how plants grow and how and when harvests are gathered.
I am from Greece, but I am not a farmer ;-)
Please elaborate if you have any knowledge of the topic.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited I don't think they are harvesting anything in December for the solstice. Everything you said just sounded wrong, to me. To change the subject, I remember when the fish symbol became popular in the USA, for Jesus. I always thought it was a terrible symbol. Only last year I came across an ancient account of a temple of Jupiter and some statue that began talking, and in this weird story there was something about Juno and a fish. This fish seemed to have died to feed the world with her body. And this was connected to Christ by the ancient person relating the story. So, this was credited with being the first mention of Christ = fish, by the person writing the web page. (Tried to find the page later, but could not.) You may be aware there is also a bird that was believed to pick flesh from her own breast to feed her baby birds in the nest, and this bird was connected with Christ by the ancients, too. Wine was a late invention, after beer. The Mithras cult was said to use water and bread in their rituals. I'm sure fruit and grain and seeds and flowers and green shoots all had their roles in these ancient cults, some had to do with blood, and some not.
Tammuz is later than Osiris.
You mean 3000 bce Dumuzi and 4000 bce Osiris.
Well, the earliest mentions of Osiris appear to be from the Fifth Dynasty. But you are correct, that is roughly the same with Tammuz. So, I will stand corrected on that.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited not roughly either
@@AncientGreeceRevisited quite quite different
@@yaruqadishi8326 Well, roughly because Tammuz can be traced to the Early Dynastic Period of Mesopotamia and Osiris to the Fifth Dynasty of Egypt, that both "roughly" pertain to the 25nd century BC. Also, don't think we should separate Dumuzi and Tammuz so much. They were husbands of Inanna, and her cults date as far as 4,000 BC. The whole point of this episode was to show a "god-type" rather than a specific god.
@@AncientGreeceRevisited Ok Osiris is known from predynastic times as well.
Esau in the bible would be pronounced esus in roman , it is the Egyptian Osiris who is Esau and he is Dyonisis . You will see Dyonisis depicted with the 7 sisters the plaises above him whilst crucified on the cross . In egypt hathor is one of the plaides , in the east the hindu murugan is nursed by the plaides just as dyonisis is . Also in the middle east the mandeans saw their prophet as John the baptist , who is the peacock angel murugans title . John the baptist as enki was the peacock angel or John the baptist was a manifestation of the peacock angel . Enki is associated with samael in the kabbalah and the tree of good and evil , he had a garden in dilum Eden. Osiris was the pharoh at death , and Horus was the living pharoh , every pharoh was the image of horus , the Egyptians named horus apollo in their own language . They made apollo the archangel Micheal the right hand of God and dyonisis samael the left . In the east Apollo is mithral of the persians . Every Roman emporer wanted to be the image of mithra when the emporer died the emporer wanted to be deified. Just like in the religion of Nimrod. Apollo is nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord he denotes a high priest and king . He would be king of the tribe of judah . The tribe of judah are the elohim in the bible the son of God bene elohim . Look what yahweh , Jupiter, said look the man Adam has become one of us knowing good and evil . Yahweh known as muruduk or marduk to the persians was a marud which denoted a warrior in the hindu religion . Over 200 times in the bible it states your God is a man of war . In the bible yahweh perform s the same feats as marduk . Look at the name Djahuty thoth in ancient language the D was interchangeable with t . Look at the name jahud as in judah . In the east thoth was chitragupta, further west he was a " prophet" nebu the son of marduk jupiter . The chaldeans worshipped their ancestors , thoth was a kshatreya as chitragupta a warrior caste who were rulers and aristocracy . The same pattern is reflected in platos republic , I.e his guardians . Oh and the female of dyonisis is venus , they are also associated with mercury and his staff represents the nadis or the chakras . Now I will tell you the animal of apollo is the wolf , the deity that protected the pharoh the dog star sirius the star of Isis . The star of isis is associated in the east with rudra the howler , the male version of the dog star is anubis . John the baptist was a nasorean or nazorean he was a gnostic . The rituals of the nazoreans are similar to the Egyptian,s . Load of crap in that bible your worshipping men . Hathor is the personification of the rauch ha quodesh the holy spirit , the mandeans had that too . Sekemet the lady of the flame proclaims she is the eye of horus as fire . The fire is the son on earth often portrayed on the head dress of the pharoh . Look at moses he goes up a mountain a high place an talks to an ashur a tree , eyah ashur eyah , Iam the ever living ashur . Go look what the sun represents in relation to the soul . In the east it was enki who supposedly made men . Look at his title the magician , a magician makes illusions , his female version venus is called maya illusion. Enki , venus and osiris all associated with providing wealth .
Dyonisis is the son of shiva or cybele, none of you are immortal . Dyonisis rode a donkey to . Dyonisis represents a level of leaving the self and communing with God. Don't lie , there is another story that doesn't involve eating the veg .
a little over the top.....one would say ?
Next he will have Jesus a drag queen at the Last Supper.
This is false sorry
In what sense?
It doesn't have layers
@@louiscachet7681 It's not a Photoshop file ;-) What do you mean?
@@AncientGreeceRevisited He was making a Shrek reference, in light of the OP’s profile picture.
@@Floral_Green Thanks. Getting too old for this I guess ;-)