I did all my long runs and ran my first marathon in the Kinvara Pro and love them. They protected my legs extremely well and I wanted to wear them for all my rings. I felt the shoes came to live at my marathon pace, which is 9:00 minutes per mile, and somewhat faster paces. So the Kinvara Pro may be a great shoe for slower runners. I usually wear stability shoes and the Kinvara Pro were super stable. Longevity is pretty good - my pair has 200 miles behind them and there is some wear at the heel, but they are good for at least another 100-150 miles, which makes them similar to daily trainers from Hoka.
I'm so glad to hear you've had such a positive experience with them, and I'm not surprised to hear they worked so well for your marathon. I'm also happy for the insight into how durable they are. We have to expect a little wear after 200 miles, but its good they're still holding up well for you!
Tried it on. Ran around the block. Loved it. Just couldn't justify the price of a shoe that I still can't figure out how it would fit in my rotation. Thx, Matt.
I think your situation is the biggest hurdle to people buying this shoe. Yes, it's a great shoe and there's really nothing to complain about other than where to fit it in. Unless you're looking to replace something, the Kinvara Pro doesn't sell itself as something a runner needs in addition to their other shoes.
We sold the old Kinvaras till the old Kinvara 11 and I hated... ALL of them. This one looks actually promising to me. I want a shoe that excites me, a shoe that is lively, springy, snappy... I dont want to feel the road much. That's only me of course. And this shoe looks promising, I wait for the Speed 4 then I will decide between these 2. From our tech rep preordering the Speed 4 maybe is the shoe of the year for me. But I look forward to your review about it!
Ooh! Thanks for the insight into the end of the Shift. I'm not sad. I can't see how this would beat the Speed 4 in terms of snappiness, but we'll see soon enough!
Excellent job on the review, Matt! Much credit to you for avoiding preconceptions and evaluating them for what they are. It's encouraging that they remind you of the Endorphin Shift. I bought a cheap pair of v2s mainly to find out why everyone hates them so much😁and I'm crazy about them now. They don't have the boing-boing bounce that the Vaporfly generation needs, but they're tempo run beasts for me. I can go quickly for the effort even if they don't feel fast, and, as someone who doesn't have super high fatigue resistance, they're very protective over longer distances. As for those exposed midsoles... Yeah, I don't mind it a bit on sub $50 closeout Kinvara 13s and other light inexpensive shoes, but I'm pretty hard on the foam under the balls of my feet and I'm not loving the idea that those ribs might well be chewed off in less than 300 miles given the price. Long service can justify a high initial investment if that's what you're getting, and a lot of Saucony models have that going for them. My stash of closeout and retail-return Speed 2s might turn out to be a lifetime supply, as well as they're wearing. And maybe I'll just stock up on Shift 3s when they reach the end of their run, but it's good to know more about the Kinvara Pro and I'm interested to see what becomes of it.
I'm with you on the exposed midsole being a (potential) issue at this price, but these will definitely be a shoe to keep an eye on when they go on sale. However, it sounds as if your future shoe-game is locked in with good deals. I have a few local friends who enjoyed the Shift but unfortunately, it appears I may be part of the [cringes]..."Vaporfly generation" because they're not for me. Eww.
@@its_Matt_B_ Heh heh! I wondered what kind of reaction that would get.🤣We all have our likes and dislikes and that's cool. What chafes me some is the consensus that shoes are useless for training now (emphasis: for training!) if they aren't pillow soft or don't have the highest energy return. A big hunk of EVA should work as well now as it did 5 or 6 years ago when the Hoka Clifton--my guess for what Saucony was going after with the Shift--was the apex of cool. It's clear that runners who aren't from East Africa aren't going faster now despite every super-everything available to them. The US men's marathon record is over 20 years old and seems in no imminent danger. I get the feeling that we're being sold fashion in the guise of progress, the shoe equivalent of the lapel width or skirt height, and at higher and higher prices. But maybe I shouldn't complain if it means that I get them cheap because other runners don't want them. Rock on, Matt!
@@largeeddie All good points the collective running industry (and community) chooses to ignore. The lapel width/skirt height comparison was genius! Well played!
I totally agree with you. Naming it Kinvara Pro didn't help this shoe and this should have been what Endorphin Shift needed to evolve. Or maybe name them as Endorphin Range (as a long run shoe). However, at $180 I would probably prefer a bit of outsole rubber, but they could take away the carbon plate or replace it with a nylon one. Then again Triumph 20/21 is what a lot of people are choosing pair with Endorphin Speed and Pro lineup.
I like both suggestions, about calling it the Endo Range and getting rid of the carbon plate for a nylon one. Also, the Triumph fits a lot better into a rotation if people have the Endo Pro/Speeds. This shoe sort of replaces the Speed.
A slightly firmer ride with a nice rocker sounds great but the lack of outsole is a concern. The price is probably the biggest issue though when thinking about comparisons. Boston 12 US$160. Novablast 4 has the same stack at US$140. Superblast is only US$20 more but, likely, with better durability and is much lighter and more responsive. Nice shoe but a tough sell at the price.
I wouldn’t. But now that you’ve made me think about it. The Kinvara Pro would work better for those who want a slightly firmer and stiffer ride. The Cloudeclipse is quite soft in comparison.
Totally agree about the name. The marketing for this should have been kinvara max. Max cushion, for max protection, for max distance. I have over 200km in mine and this thing loves longer distances. The foam combo has great running endurance as it feels the same at 10km all the way through to 30km on my long run. If they put the same rubber outsole as the kinvara it would fix the durability issue as my kinvara 14 have over 400km and does not have a sideways rocker but the kinvara pro at 220km is starting to form one, which is a shame as I'll have to retire the a 300km. Overall poor marketing for a great shoe, should have done the hoka carbon x thing and pushed the shoe as an ultramarathon shoe.
Excellent thinking with calling them the Kinvara Max! That definitely would have played better with the running community! You're also right about that lateral heel runner on the K14. My wear would be absolutely minimal if the Kinvara Pros had it! I bet we'll see a few changes next year!
@@its_Matt_B_ I am also a lateral heel runner especially on my right foot especially when tired or slower paces. This shoe would wear out for me really fast. They should have included those 2 pieces of rubber from K14 in here. 2-3 gr more will not make that much of difference.
Great review. This has been one of my favourite shoes this year and I never expected to like it so much. Once broken in it really rolls so smoothly and is particularly fantastic for long runs. It’s become a marathon training staple. There’s plenty of negative reviews out there for this one, but your thoughts are very much in line with mine.
Thanks, Tristan! Yeah, because I got this shoe so late I was well aware of all the negativity surrounding it, so I was really surprised when it turned out to be a great shoe! Lucky us for not letting the negativity cloud our opinion of this one!
I agree 100%… My Shift 3s need to be replaced soon and while I really enjoy them(I like the Shift 2 almost equally) I’m considering the Kinvara Pro for the upgrade. It’s hard though considering I can get about 2 pairs of Shift 3 or 3 pairs of Shift 2 for the same $ now… 😂
Yeah, I get it! Price is a huge concern, especially when shoes just a year or so old can be had for such a steal. I did see Saucony is running some good Black Friday sales, so perhaps this is the weekend to grab them! 😉
@@its_Matt_B_ I bought a pair (£150 in slime green from pro direct) - just went out and ran half marathon at 8min mile pace. Brilliant shoe - reminds me of the endorphin elite but more comfortable and forgiving (obvs not as fast). As someone who weighs 92kg 154 cadence forefoot striker and bottoms out a speed 3 or pro 3 within ten ks this combo of elites for race day and kinvara pro for long runs feels perfect for me - no sign of bottoming those out! Thank you as you seem to be the only review who has reviewed this shoe on its merits
I agree that this shoe hasn’t been well received by the running community. I think the name has a lot to do with it and also it being a bit of an odd shoe from a use case/where does it fit in the rotation standpoint with so many other shoes out there
I think it fits into the daily/super trainer category quite well but as you said, it's hard for reviewers (and runners) to get over the name. Saucony should just change the name and re-release it! 🤣 People will love it!
Agreed. And yet I think they're priced competitively within the market. The good thing is that if we just wait a year or so the prices drop significantly.
@@its_Matt_B_ Hmmmm i'm not sure they can do anything better than the endorphin speed though so can't see why they would be priced higher. The speeds can do 1000+ miles too
I agree, but I prefer a softer ride if given the choice so that's why I would pick the Speed 3s. For people who like a firmer shoe (and I would also say more stable), I think this beats the Speed 3.@@macewindex564
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
👟 Shift Pro has a nice ring to it 👍
Yep, I think so too! 👊🏽
Agreed on all fronts….
You've had these for a while, Marni! Has anything changed for you over that time?
No, I tried to like them and I see why people do, but they are too firm for me. I do however LOVE the Saucony Endorphin Pro@@its_Matt_B_
I did all my long runs and ran my first marathon in the Kinvara Pro and love them. They protected my legs extremely well and I wanted to wear them for all my rings. I felt the shoes came to live at my marathon pace, which is 9:00 minutes per mile, and somewhat faster paces. So the Kinvara Pro may be a great shoe for slower runners. I usually wear stability shoes and the Kinvara Pro were super stable. Longevity is pretty good - my pair has 200 miles behind them and there is some wear at the heel, but they are good for at least another 100-150 miles, which makes them similar to daily trainers from Hoka.
I'm so glad to hear you've had such a positive experience with them, and I'm not surprised to hear they worked so well for your marathon. I'm also happy for the insight into how durable they are. We have to expect a little wear after 200 miles, but its good they're still holding up well for you!
Tried it on. Ran around the block. Loved it. Just couldn't justify the price of a shoe that I still can't figure out how it would fit in my rotation. Thx, Matt.
I think your situation is the biggest hurdle to people buying this shoe. Yes, it's a great shoe and there's really nothing to complain about other than where to fit it in. Unless you're looking to replace something, the Kinvara Pro doesn't sell itself as something a runner needs in addition to their other shoes.
@@its_Matt_B_ Agreed. Cheers, Matt.
We sold the old Kinvaras till the old Kinvara 11 and I hated... ALL of them.
This one looks actually promising to me.
I want a shoe that excites me, a shoe that is lively, springy, snappy... I dont want to feel the road much. That's only me of course.
And this shoe looks promising, I wait for the Speed 4 then I will decide between these 2.
From our tech rep preordering the Speed 4 maybe is the shoe of the year for me. But I look forward to your review about it!
Ooh! Thanks for the insight into the end of the Shift. I'm not sad.
I can't see how this would beat the Speed 4 in terms of snappiness, but we'll see soon enough!
Excellent job on the review, Matt! Much credit to you for avoiding preconceptions and evaluating them for what they are. It's encouraging that they remind you of the Endorphin Shift. I bought a cheap pair of v2s mainly to find out why everyone hates them so much😁and I'm crazy about them now. They don't have the boing-boing bounce that the Vaporfly generation needs, but they're tempo run beasts for me. I can go quickly for the effort even if they don't feel fast, and, as someone who doesn't have super high fatigue resistance, they're very protective over longer distances. As for those exposed midsoles... Yeah, I don't mind it a bit on sub $50 closeout Kinvara 13s and other light inexpensive shoes, but I'm pretty hard on the foam under the balls of my feet and I'm not loving the idea that those ribs might well be chewed off in less than 300 miles given the price. Long service can justify a high initial investment if that's what you're getting, and a lot of Saucony models have that going for them. My stash of closeout and retail-return Speed 2s might turn out to be a lifetime supply, as well as they're wearing. And maybe I'll just stock up on Shift 3s when they reach the end of their run, but it's good to know more about the Kinvara Pro and I'm interested to see what becomes of it.
I'm with you on the exposed midsole being a (potential) issue at this price, but these will definitely be a shoe to keep an eye on when they go on sale. However, it sounds as if your future shoe-game is locked in with good deals.
I have a few local friends who enjoyed the Shift but unfortunately, it appears I may be part of the [cringes]..."Vaporfly generation" because they're not for me. Eww.
@@its_Matt_B_ Heh heh! I wondered what kind of reaction that would get.🤣We all have our likes and dislikes and that's cool. What chafes me some is the consensus that shoes are useless for training now (emphasis: for training!) if they aren't pillow soft or don't have the highest energy return. A big hunk of EVA should work as well now as it did 5 or 6 years ago when the Hoka Clifton--my guess for what Saucony was going after with the Shift--was the apex of cool. It's clear that runners who aren't from East Africa aren't going faster now despite every super-everything available to them. The US men's marathon record is over 20 years old and seems in no imminent danger. I get the feeling that we're being sold fashion in the guise of progress, the shoe equivalent of the lapel width or skirt height, and at higher and higher prices. But maybe I shouldn't complain if it means that I get them cheap because other runners don't want them. Rock on, Matt!
@@largeeddie All good points the collective running industry (and community) chooses to ignore.
The lapel width/skirt height comparison was genius! Well played!
@@its_Matt_B_ Thanks for reading and replying, Matt.👊
You're welcome. Always! @@largeeddie
I totally agree with you. Naming it Kinvara Pro didn't help this shoe and this should have been what Endorphin Shift needed to evolve. Or maybe name them as Endorphin Range (as a long run shoe).
However, at $180 I would probably prefer a bit of outsole rubber, but they could take away the carbon plate or replace it with a nylon one. Then again Triumph 20/21 is what a lot of people are choosing pair with Endorphin Speed and Pro lineup.
I like both suggestions, about calling it the Endo Range and getting rid of the carbon plate for a nylon one.
Also, the Triumph fits a lot better into a rotation if people have the Endo Pro/Speeds. This shoe sort of replaces the Speed.
I absolutely love mine!!!
Good to hear it, April! They sure are underrated!
whats the difference between surges and strides?
Surges are where I pick up the pace from my easy pace. Strides are a more specific pace (5k or quicker) for a short amount of time, eg. 30 seconds.
A slightly firmer ride with a nice rocker sounds great but the lack of outsole is a concern. The price is probably the biggest issue though when thinking about comparisons. Boston 12 US$160. Novablast 4 has the same stack at US$140. Superblast is only US$20 more but, likely, with better durability and is much lighter and more responsive. Nice shoe but a tough sell at the price.
All good points! I haven't had a chance to run in the Novablast 4 yet, but I'm sure it's going to be a great option at only $140.
How would you compare it to the Cloudeclipse?
I wouldn’t. But now that you’ve made me think about it. The Kinvara Pro would work better for those who want a slightly firmer and stiffer ride. The Cloudeclipse is quite soft in comparison.
Totally agree about the name. The marketing for this should have been kinvara max. Max cushion, for max protection, for max distance. I have over 200km in mine and this thing loves longer distances. The foam combo has great running endurance as it feels the same at 10km all the way through to 30km on my long run. If they put the same rubber outsole as the kinvara it would fix the durability issue as my kinvara 14 have over 400km and does not have a sideways rocker but the kinvara pro at 220km is starting to form one, which is a shame as I'll have to retire the a 300km. Overall poor marketing for a great shoe, should have done the hoka carbon x thing and pushed the shoe as an ultramarathon shoe.
Excellent thinking with calling them the Kinvara Max! That definitely would have played better with the running community!
You're also right about that lateral heel runner on the K14. My wear would be absolutely minimal if the Kinvara Pros had it!
I bet we'll see a few changes next year!
@@its_Matt_B_ I am also a lateral heel runner especially on my right foot especially when tired or slower paces. This shoe would wear out for me really fast. They should have included those 2 pieces of rubber from K14 in here. 2-3 gr more will not make that much of difference.
Great review. This has been one of my favourite shoes this year and I never expected to like it so much. Once broken in it really rolls so smoothly and is particularly fantastic for long runs. It’s become a marathon training staple.
There’s plenty of negative reviews out there for this one, but your thoughts are very much in line with mine.
Thanks, Tristan! Yeah, because I got this shoe so late I was well aware of all the negativity surrounding it, so I was really surprised when it turned out to be a great shoe! Lucky us for not letting the negativity cloud our opinion of this one!
I agree 100%… My Shift 3s need to be replaced soon and while I really enjoy them(I like the Shift 2 almost equally) I’m considering the Kinvara Pro for the upgrade. It’s hard though considering I can get about 2 pairs of Shift 3 or 3 pairs of Shift 2 for the same $ now… 😂
Yeah, I get it! Price is a huge concern, especially when shoes just a year or so old can be had for such a steal. I did see Saucony is running some good Black Friday sales, so perhaps this is the weekend to grab them! 😉
Sounds like the New Balance SC Trainer V2.
Not good at easy pace but better as you go faster.
Both 60 gr to heavy 😂
Yes, they compare well to the SCTv2, except they'll appeal to totally different runners. The SCTv2 is marshmallow soft and the KP is not.
Is this a good training partner to the endorphin elite?
Yes, it would be a great option.
@@its_Matt_B_ I bought a pair (£150 in slime green from pro direct) - just went out and ran half marathon at 8min mile pace. Brilliant shoe - reminds me of the endorphin elite but more comfortable and forgiving (obvs not as fast). As someone who weighs 92kg 154 cadence forefoot striker and bottoms out a speed 3 or pro 3 within ten ks this combo of elites for race day and kinvara pro for long runs feels perfect for me - no sign of bottoming those out! Thank you as you seem to be the only review who has reviewed this shoe on its merits
@@WarneysWorld I’m glad to hear you’ve had such a solid experience with them and that was a brilliant run! 💪🏽
I agree that this shoe hasn’t been well received by the running community. I think the name has a lot to do with it and also it being a bit of an odd shoe from a use case/where does it fit in the rotation standpoint with so many other shoes out there
I think it fits into the daily/super trainer category quite well but as you said, it's hard for reviewers (and runners) to get over the name. Saucony should just change the name and re-release it! 🤣 People will love it!
@@its_Matt_B_ Good point about renaming the shoe.
so expensive though
Agreed. And yet I think they're priced competitively within the market. The good thing is that if we just wait a year or so the prices drop significantly.
@@its_Matt_B_ Hmmmm i'm not sure they can do anything better than the endorphin speed though so can't see why they would be priced higher. The speeds can do 1000+ miles too
I agree, but I prefer a softer ride if given the choice so that's why I would pick the Speed 3s. For people who like a firmer shoe (and I would also say more stable), I think this beats the Speed 3.@@macewindex564