I never thought about it like that. It only seems worth the hassle for an extra large SUB but I always planned on 0% balance transfers if I couldn't deal with the spend.
I don’t MS. But I do sometimes buy VGC to cover actual spend, either for bills that don’t accept AMEX or for a better category spend multiplier. My opinion, the people doing MS are ruining the the game. Word of caution, don’t buy VGC to help hit minimum spend for AMEX SUB’s. Not worth loosing the whole bonus AND never getting a bonus for that card again. Veterans probable know all this, but I thought worth discussing. Great topic Dustin.
So is it still considered MS to get just get GC for actual spend like utilities and other things? Or is it not as frowned on if you do it like this? Just curious to know how the banks even know what your spending it on or if your churning them. TIA.
Randy Rodriguez I don’t think this is considered MS but it is definitely specifically stated in a lot of AMEX rules that gift cards are excluded. Not worth it to risk a SUB. AMEX gets what’s called “LEVEL 3” data from many stores. Basically, they see the store’s descriptions of every item you are purchasing. For that reason, I always buy at least 2-5 small items with a VGC purchase.
Fantastic topic, dont spend if you cant pay. In the long run you could be caught and its not worth the negative ramifications on your credit reports. Always on the forefront of great topics.
Well, the main benefits of having a business is the tax leveraging. Credit cards rewards pales in comparison, but you can do both, can even write off credit card interest on business lines of credit, as well as vehicle, and other related expenses that are ordinary and necessary...
Exactly, you're already doing the spending anyways. If I buy 4K worth of inventory that I'm going to turn into 6K, those credit card rewards are only gravy on top. We do quite well with the Business Gold card on shipping.
And I've heard people say retailers bake interchange fees into the final price of items, so why would they fret over ms when they've covered themselves? Its not like these fees are going away either.
*DAWGGOAT* I’m gon give you 5 Stars you really put happiness on my faces, you did straight business and delivered to exactly address. This’s easy more than I thought bro. Keep winning
I have a confession to make: I fell into the temptation of manufacturing spend. Yes, it is wrong, or at least morally unacceptable, it rewarded my wallet but it is dragging my soul to the underworld. The worst of all is that I don't know where to spend those 81 UR points I gained with that transaction on my CSR where I purchased some food at McD during Thanksgiving via the app and the restaurant was closed when I arrived, transaction posted but the next day I went to complain and the cashier returned the cash instead of reversing the charge on the card...
@@DugrozReports ok so this is how im understanding it so far. L3 data allows for more transparency in the transaction process, reducing the costs of interchange fees, and his argument is that will be the end of ms. But interchange fees aren't going away any time soon. Unless I'm wrong with all of this
Let’s now forget about those people that constantly manufacture spend. Theft of a high dollar gift card is a risk. The wrong person or people can watch you or get info from a cashier that this guy comes here every day and buys $1000, $2000, $3000 in debit gift cards. You are now a target. You could lose a lot of money and people have died over less money...
For most, not all, but for most, if you're MSing or running some other kinds of actual business it's really hard to accumulate lots of points on personal cards. I mean shy of running a business, is anyone really spending north of $2k on the Amex Gold to hit the $25k per year cap?
Waller’s Wallet Once is the reasons I got rid of my Amex Gold. The temptation is there all the time. I have north or a half a million MR points and I know if I had kept that card I would have continued to carry on...up until I got pop’d by the RAT team and then all of it would have been for nothing. What worked for me was to ditch the Amex Gold card. I can’t MS big with my remaining Amex cards (BBP, EDP, BG, and some Bonvoy cards). The temptation has been removed and I feel (for now) my hefty MR balance is safe as I’m not longer drawing crazy attention to myself.
The MS community pretty much went underground about 5yrs ago. If I did MS, I would never use Visa GCs, that's a slap in the face to the banks, even if they suspect it. I rarely MS, the one trick I have used maybe 5 times in the last 6yrs, was when I was in a tight spot and didn't plan out my applications and payment. Now I have too much vested in the banks, so I don't MS.
Buying them here and there is no issue. Buying large quantities frequently could pose an issue, but typically issuers are looking debit style gift cards, like visa
Would it be considered MS or improper if I use a 4x grocery multiplier to buy VISA debit cards to pay off a $10k tax bill using a tax paying service? I think the fee to use VISA debit cards is way less than VISA credit or Amex credit.
my take on it if you buy gift cards don't make it easy to tell thats what you are buying. buy other items with it dont spend more then what most would spend at that store
MS can take up a lot of time given all the limits that're in place now. I used to drive to the office every day, and there was plenty of opportunities to MS along the way, so I was making several extra steps along the way every day and making a good chunk of points. Nowadays I only MS if I need to hit the SUB or there's a really lucrative bonus offer, MSing with a 2% card is not worth it to me.
Hey Dustin I have a question. My friend buys and sells purses as a business. Occasionally I’ll go with her and buy purses on my chase cards and then she gives me cash to pay off my card. Do you think I could get in trouble for this? Usually it’s around 2k at a time in spend.
man i was just looking to see if i could get info about earning the welcome bonus through a nintendo or other gift cards that arent visa cause.. im struggling on thinking of things to buy that isnt forcing spend cause i dont wanana force spend lol but now your giving me more ideas but i dont think its worth the risk lol cause your making it kinda aggressive with what your saying but is 100$ here and their shut down worthy? especially around the holidays? also what are you talking about learn the process isnt this simple? get gift card > get money order > profit? lol allthough for me i dont care about the points im struggling getting a loan even with a high credit score im doing it more as a way to get a "fake" loan lol
Its worth it, until you get shut down, then you just need to change your identity. Hey but serious question, how did you end up losing $500. I never really done MF because I never needed to, but like you said, I thought the worst case was you just have to float the money in the short term.
I was loading Amex Serve cards and the register glitched and took the money from the GC but didn't load it onto the Serve card. They store couldn't reverse the transaction and put the money back on the card. They told me to reach out to corporate. After many calls and attempts they never called me back. So eventually.I had to move on. Consolation prize, I still flew Hawaiian Business class back from Hawaii.
@@WallersWallet dang, sorry that happened. Just an idea, maybe you could even make a video about that and kind of do a thumbnail with a warning to all credit card users or something like that and tell that story. I watch a lot of your videos but not all so sorry if you've made that already.
Do you think buying Amazon gift cards at Staples with Ink Cash to get 5x points is considered MS if you spend the Amazon gift card on a legit Amazon.com purchase? Or is MS more specifically about turning Visa debit cards back into cash via money orders...?
MS is too risky for me, and I spend enough organically to meet most SUB. Even though Plastiq is much less attractive than in the past, there is no reason to MS to reach an SUB, unless you want to game the system. If you do, good luck but don’t cry foul if you end up losing out.
Seems like kind of a narrow definition of Manufactured Spend. Could use other things that you can buy with the card and re-sell. I seem to recall for a while, it was done with us dollar coins, which could be bought at face value and deposited directly to the bank.
There soooo many ways to do it legally. not really worth it..You can resell at cost , become a distributer, buy for others -get reimbursed, plus organic
Hey man you should consider making a discord sever. If you want one I would be glad to make one for you and set it up. I am a mod in Graham Stephens discord server as well if you know who he is or in his discord server. By the way sense you have more than 10k subs I would give you the content creators role if you joined his server.
Easy question. NO NO NO. It's cheating. We have enough of that in the government. And didn't you just really annoy Chase already recently? You missed mentioning the levels of reporting that allow banks to see exactly what you bought, plus, the fact that they can request this information from the merchants, who are very willing to comply.
I have mentioned reporting data in other videos, but absolutely if they are reporting L3 then they see everything. And in exchange they have lower fees
It’s immoral, that’s enough for me. Not illegal but definitely immoral, integrity is a big part of a person character. I wouldn’t want my customer base doing this to me if I owned a company.
Words are not👆👆enough to express the good things he has done in my life, anytime I'm having deal with him. I always got nothing to worry about because he's leqit and professional…he's just a genius
Words are not👆👆enough to express the good things he has done in my life, anytime I'm having deal with him. I always got nothing to worry about because he's leqit and professional…he's just a genius
![Oasis - Oasis Live '25 [Official Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gol_JnuEtKM/mqdefault.jpg)
first rule of MS is not to talk about MS!!!
Fight Klub lol
Facts
the second rule is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT MS!!!
Definitely not worth the shutdown. Relationships with Amex and Chase are more valuable in the long-term than playing the MS game.
Glad to see you’re putting a good work ethic in him while he’s young.
Better believe it 🙂
The Co-Host was the star 💫 of the show!!
He usually is. Wayyy cuter than I am.
I never thought about it like that. It only seems worth the hassle for an extra large SUB but I always planned on 0% balance transfers if I couldn't deal with the spend.
I don’t MS. But I do sometimes buy VGC to cover actual spend, either for bills that don’t accept AMEX or for a better category spend multiplier. My opinion, the people doing MS are ruining the the game. Word of caution, don’t buy VGC to help hit minimum spend for AMEX SUB’s. Not worth loosing the whole bonus AND never getting a bonus for that card again. Veterans probable know all this, but I thought worth discussing. Great topic Dustin.
Great tip. Amex will definitely come back for those rewards. Thanks for watching!
So is it still considered MS to get just get GC for actual spend like utilities and other things? Or is it not as frowned on if you do it like this? Just curious to know how the banks even know what your spending it on or if your churning them. TIA.
Randy Rodriguez I don’t think this is considered MS but it is definitely specifically stated in a lot of AMEX rules that gift cards are excluded. Not worth it to risk a SUB. AMEX gets what’s called “LEVEL 3” data from many stores. Basically, they see the store’s descriptions of every item you are purchasing. For that reason, I always buy at least 2-5 small items with a VGC purchase.
@@lagaleven1506 I was aware that AMEX looks at this alot and I appreciate the info. Thanks you.
@@lagaleven1506
Why do they care what you are purchasing?
And how does buying gift cards hurt AMEX?
I don't get it.
Thank you!!!!!!
I think the biggest flaw of the topic is that it is the exact same process criminals use to liquidate stolen credit cards.
Fantastic topic, dont spend if you cant pay. In the long run you could be caught and its not worth the negative ramifications on your credit reports. Always on the forefront of great topics.
Thank you Thomas!
Best manufactured spending: build a successful business that converts your business expenses into your revenue 😀
Well, the main benefits of having a business is the tax leveraging. Credit cards rewards pales in comparison, but you can do both, can even write off credit card interest on business lines of credit, as well as vehicle, and other related expenses that are ordinary and necessary...
Exactly, you're already doing the spending anyways. If I buy 4K worth of inventory that I'm going to turn into 6K, those credit card rewards are only gravy on top. We do quite well with the Business Gold card on shipping.
I can’t focus because I have to see your precious baby. Enjoy those moments.
I'm torn ... there's bloggers like Frequent Miler who talk MS pretty openly, and as far as I know, they've never had any major repercussions.
And I've heard people say retailers bake interchange fees into the final price of items, so why would they fret over ms when they've covered themselves? Its not like these fees are going away either.
Regarding time commitment involved at 6:17 - totally agree Dustin. I'm sure there's folks who make a career out of MS, but it sounds miserable.
Cant hate on the baby... no one better dislike the video
Thanks! There's always someone who will hit it :-). Probably because theres not enough baby in it
I need mor baby in my videos, but never a TD.
@@oazizpharmd2993 haha
#3. Good to see the little guy working on some camera time.
He needs to improve that camera presence 😂 I’ll work on it with him
Waller’s Wallet looked perfect to me. Didn’t cry or fuss at all. Hope to see more of him in future videos.
*DAWGGOAT* I’m gon give you 5 Stars you really put happiness on my faces, you did straight business and delivered to exactly address. This’s easy more than I thought bro. Keep winning
The ending was the best! Hahahaha take care Dustin and stay safe!
I will never give out my manufacturered spending methods.
Lol okay
I have a confession to make: I fell into the temptation of manufacturing spend. Yes, it is wrong, or at least morally unacceptable, it rewarded my wallet but it is dragging my soul to the underworld. The worst of all is that I don't know where to spend those 81 UR points I gained with that transaction on my CSR where I purchased some food at McD during Thanksgiving via the app and the restaurant was closed when I arrived, transaction posted but the next day I went to complain and the cashier returned the cash instead of reversing the charge on the card...
Its not wrong or morally unacceptable
@@dogguy8603
You are Right!
Why would it be Morally wrong?
these banks bleed the average customer dry, why would it be wrong to get a few cents off the dollars they make?
Nobody got it, I was being sarcastic 😝
L3 data from merchants will basically kill MS.
It's always said that Chase doesn't look at 3rd level data.
Why do you say this? Can you please explain
@@KA-vs7nl Which part do you want explained?
@@DugrozReports ok so this is how im understanding it so far. L3 data allows for more transparency in the transaction process, reducing the costs of interchange fees, and his argument is that will be the end of ms. But interchange fees aren't going away any time soon. Unless I'm wrong with all of this
Got it.
The co-host is a star! Like the topic. FYI - the lights changing color is a bit distracting during the video.
Thanks for the feedback. I was trialing it out to see if it was good. I’ll be sure to keep that in mind for future videos 🙂
Great content as always! Audio was a bit soft?
I’ll have to go back and check it. It sounded normal during the editing process. Thanks for the feedback and watching!
Let’s now forget about those people that constantly manufacture spend. Theft of a high dollar gift card is a risk. The wrong person or people can watch you or get info from a cashier that this guy comes here every day and buys $1000, $2000, $3000 in debit gift cards. You are now a target. You could lose a lot of money and people have died over less money...
True. There is a risk of that as well. Goes beyond points
I'm always interested in ways of maximizing my spend, but I cant risk what could be decades of a relationship with these banks. Not for this
For most, not all, but for most, if you're MSing or running some other kinds of actual business it's really hard to accumulate lots of points on personal cards. I mean shy of running a business, is anyone really spending north of $2k on the Amex Gold to hit the $25k per year cap?
The $25k Gold grocery is an easy way for them to see that stuff
Waller’s Wallet Once is the reasons I got rid of my Amex Gold. The temptation is there all the time. I have north or a half a million MR points and I know if I had kept that card I would have continued to carry on...up until I got pop’d by the RAT team and then all of it would have been for nothing.
What worked for me was to ditch the Amex Gold card. I can’t MS big with my remaining Amex cards (BBP, EDP, BG, and some Bonvoy cards). The temptation has been removed and I feel (for now) my hefty MR balance is safe as I’m not longer drawing crazy attention to myself.
working with the baby LOL...... love to see it 💙‼️
The MS community pretty much went underground about 5yrs ago. If I did MS, I would never use Visa GCs, that's a slap in the face to the banks, even if they suspect it. I rarely MS, the one trick I have used maybe 5 times in the last 6yrs, was when I was in a tight spot and didn't plan out my applications and payment. Now I have too much vested in the banks, so I don't MS.
And what was that one trick?
Do banks consider it manufactured spending if i buy gas gift cards at certain places such as grocery stores, CVS, etc. to earn extra points/casback ?
@Justin K yes I actually use those gas cards for personal use. And I don't do it all the time or buy them in huge amounts
These "continuity errors" are too adorable 😀
What's your opinion on store specific gc?
Buying them here and there is no issue. Buying large quantities frequently could pose an issue, but typically issuers are looking debit style gift cards, like visa
Congratulations on your little one amigo.
Thank you!
I just got a merchant account from chase to hit sign up bonuses wit now
I think people who manufacture spend hurt us who are playing by the rules. I never have and never will because in the end it will hurt all of us.
Great video as always, and what a CUTE co-host!
Thanks! Yeah he makes the videos better. #babyflexvalue
Would it be considered MS or improper if I use a 4x grocery multiplier to buy VISA debit cards to pay off a $10k tax bill using a tax paying service? I think the fee to use VISA debit cards is way less than VISA credit or Amex credit.
Which service are you using? Some charge a lower fee. But that could draw eyes to your account.
What if I don’t want to do it for the points, just to easily build my credit?
There’s no reason to do that. Just use your card normally and that will help.
my take on it if you buy gift cards don't make it easy to tell thats what you are buying. buy other items with it dont spend more then what most would spend at that store
If stores report level 3 data, they’ll see all the items you purchases.
The "Co-Host" was great :)
Your baby is going to fall in love with your voice. 💙
MS can take up a lot of time given all the limits that're in place now. I used to drive to the office every day, and there was plenty of opportunities to MS along the way, so I was making several extra steps along the way every day and making a good chunk of points. Nowadays I only MS if I need to hit the SUB or there's a really lucrative bonus offer, MSing with a 2% card is not worth it to me.
Hey Dustin I have a question. My friend buys and sells purses as a business. Occasionally I’ll go with her and buy purses on my chase cards and then she gives me cash to pay off my card. Do you think I could get in trouble for this? Usually it’s around 2k at a time in spend.
I don't think that would be an issue.
That’s a great friend you got there!
man i was just looking to see if i could get info about earning the welcome bonus through a nintendo or other gift cards that arent visa cause.. im struggling on thinking of things to buy that isnt forcing spend cause i dont wanana force spend lol but now your giving me more ideas but i dont think its worth the risk lol cause your making it kinda aggressive with what your saying but is 100$ here and their shut down worthy? especially around the holidays? also what are you talking about learn the process isnt this simple? get gift card > get money order > profit? lol allthough for me i dont care about the points im struggling getting a loan even with a high credit score im doing it more as a way to get a "fake" loan lol
You could always just you know, buy gift cards and use them as time goes on.
More great information coming out of this channel. Easily top 2 in credit card channels.
Thank you for the kind words Joseph!
#DadResponsibilities
Love the lights in the background!! What's the brand name? Link?
There’s a link in the description. They are the Aputure MC. Love those lights!
Its worth it, until you get shut down, then you just need to change your identity. Hey but serious question, how did you end up losing $500. I never really done MF because I never needed to, but like you said, I thought the worst case was you just have to float the money in the short term.
I was loading Amex Serve cards and the register glitched and took the money from the GC but didn't load it onto the Serve card. They store couldn't reverse the transaction and put the money back on the card. They told me to reach out to corporate. After many calls and attempts they never called me back. So eventually.I had to move on. Consolation prize, I still flew Hawaiian Business class back from Hawaii.
@@WallersWallet dang, sorry that happened. Just an idea, maybe you could even make a video about that and kind of do a thumbnail with a warning to all credit card users or something like that and tell that story. I watch a lot of your videos but not all so sorry if you've made that already.
I’ll add a video of my mistakes to the list! And I appreciate you watching!
@@WallersWallet Wow this is crazy! I had this happen before but they refunded me the money. Was nice getting $1k in cash. 😂
If I use my cards for my business then is that MS?
Baby showing up magically in video wins
Thank you 😊
Do you think buying Amazon gift cards at Staples with Ink Cash to get 5x points is considered MS if you spend the Amazon gift card on a legit Amazon.com purchase? Or is MS more specifically about turning Visa debit cards back into cash via money orders...?
The first thing you said is just regular spending
MS is too risky for me, and I spend enough organically to meet most SUB. Even though Plastiq is much less attractive than in the past, there is no reason to MS to reach an SUB, unless you want to game the system. If you do, good luck but don’t cry foul if you end up losing out.
That fist pump at the end lol
Cutest co-host ever!
Thanks!
Seems like kind of a narrow definition of Manufactured Spend. Could use other things that you can buy with the card and re-sell. I seem to recall for a while, it was done with us dollar coins, which could be bought at face value and deposited directly to the bank.
Reselling is different. MS has an uneasiness for money laundering. There are creative ways to earn points that aren’t as much of an issue.
There soooo many ways to do it legally. not really worth it..You can resell at cost , become a distributer, buy for others -get reimbursed, plus organic
Do tell sir .. I'm listening
WHAT RISK YOU YT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOREVER NOW THAT MORE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT IT ITS A RISK..GET THE FREAK OUT OF HERE
Banks don’t like you surreptitiously drawing money and rewards, that’s their role.
Hey man you should consider making a discord sever. If you want one I would be glad to make one for you and set it up. I am a mod in Graham Stephens discord server as well if you know who he is or in his discord server. By the way sense you have more than 10k subs I would give you the content creators role if you joined his server.
I’ll have to take a look at his discord 👍🏼
@@WallersWallet That sounds good.
Easy question. NO NO NO. It's cheating. We have enough of that in the government. And didn't you just really annoy Chase already recently?
You missed mentioning the levels of reporting that allow banks to see exactly what you bought, plus, the fact that they can request this information from the merchants, who are very willing to comply.
I have mentioned reporting data in other videos, but absolutely if they are reporting L3 then they see everything. And in exchange they have lower fees
MS is the metformin version of credit cards. Go low and start slow...
😂😂
It’s immoral, that’s enough for me. Not illegal but definitely immoral, integrity is a big part of a person character. I wouldn’t want my customer base doing this to me if I owned a company.
how many points are you earning with your wife for this video? 😂
I wanted 3 brownie points, she agreed, the devalued them. 😂
MS is dead I can’t even find a place to buy a mo with $100 gc🤦🏾♂️
Not worth the chance of having my account shut down losing all my points and ruining my relationship with the bank, possibly for good.
Agreed
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🍻💯
Thanks for watching 🙂
Words are not👆👆enough to express the good
things he has done in my life, anytime I'm having deal
with him. I always got nothing to worry about because
he's leqit and professional…he's just a genius
He's cute!😁
Oprah promoting bro
Why are u holding the baby? 😅
Damn 2nd
Close! Looks like 7 secs! 🥈🔥
Words are not👆👆enough to express the good
things he has done in my life, anytime I'm having deal
with him. I always got nothing to worry about because
he's leqit and professional…he's just a genius