@@FredScuttle456 A white car crossed in front of me in Raynes Park ( UK ) in the early 1980's ... sprayed in blue paint , down the side : [ DONT BUY AN AVENGER ] 😝 ....... DAVE™🛑
A+ generally had higher compression and that from different pistons. Then 'better' camshaft in the A+ helps that little bit to. Maybe better tolerances in them to. A bad/worn out, or very well built gearbox can make a lot of difference.
I think all that stuff from the tailpipe was due to you giving it the beans and it cleared it's throat. That car runs as nice as it looks. Yes, I like the way it looks, brown and all.
My family (me, mom, dad, my brother) went up Porlock Hill in Somerset back in the 80s in a brown Allegro. Some of that hill is 1-in-4. We made it, but it was terrifying. My mom noticed a sign saying 'emergency exit' and suggested we take it, not realising it was a 100m gravel track leading to a sandbank full of broken headlight and radiator parts.
@@davidmoore4615 There was a very definite smell of smoking brakes - this was a second-hand Allegro with four people in it and not exactly over-endowed with power. Every time we were forced to stop due to other traffic, my dad hauled on the brakes to stop us and executed a very careful hill start when we had room in front. I was a teenager at the time, but I bet my dad hoovered up a good part of the seat cover with his butt cheeks while doing those. And yes, we had to stop on multiple occasions because there are a lot of turns on that hill, some with sheer drops visible beyond a low wall one side. There were more than a few tourists sweating bullets. On the way back we saw a hole in a hedge and a badly dented car sitting in the plowed field beyond it.
I remember seeing a whole line of these brand new Allegros all parked up behind a white picket fence at Mitton Motors in Tewkesbury. I think the brown was their most exciting colour. It needed 5* full lead petrol - also smelt so good!
BL Russet Brown, my 1980 MGB is done in this colour. It seems to have landed on Jaguars, Triumphs, Austins. Anyone seen a Rover in this colour? Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦
I think we might be learning more about cars engines than we think with this. Stealth education. Absolutely great of everyone involved in allowing the dyno runs.
Wow he was a bit smokey lol. Unusual dip there yes, but its happy enough it seems. Certainly for the type of use he gets its nothing to worry about. Another fine video sir, and thanks for the shout out!
Yes a fair performance from tye little Allegro but at some stage I’d get the ignition / fuelling looked at, and also the brakes as mentioned in the first “review” video. Have you seen the video on Twin Cam where Ed gets his Metro A+ gone through by a tuning expert ?
I fondly remember childhood memories of being sick in the back of one of those, ours was in the attractive Harvest Gold paint. Which camouflaged things.
I had one in early 80s ...tbf it was ok ...my first car ..i was 18....my Dad could fix any little issues and nothing major broke while i owned it. The best bit was if you pulled the manual choke out it actually went like a rocket from standing start....❤
My first car was an Allegro (circa 1986; I do not remember the series or reg.). No problems transporting our wee Family of Four. Many warm memories of our travels. Treated it/her kindly and the response was more than enough for my, then, expectations. Thank you. Stay free, UPnDOWN et al. Rab and The Flown Sons ... 😎 🕊🕊 ⏰
Genuinely mate, you're fast becoming my favourite youtube channel. Your quick humor keep always make me giggle. Keep it up, I have high hopes for this channel! Big love from the other side of England 💯
I drive a diesel 'deo estate daily. Not what you'd call exciting. A few times, I've taken my wife's Dodge Challenger to work. 375 horsepower gets me home 0 minutes earlier than the 'deo. It's actually frustrating. The 'deo can't brag about BHP, but when you can't use the BHP, at least it has MPG. The Challenger is unsurprisingly thirsty.
Great to see the awesome power (e.g. more than Hubnut) that George puts out! I think All things Alex covers cars, and drinking tea ... and occasionally commenting on difficulties getting a cup of tea at a car show ...
I like that if I recall you were thinking of selling it and now it’s found a new purpose for RUclips “shorts”*. *shorts measured as per UpnDown measurements 😅
Just to put some context into the figures. What is important is the power to weight ratio. The Allegro doesn't weigh much so 58 bhp is fine for a runabout car in its day. If I remember correctly, the original Mini 1000cc or 998cc to those whom it matters, had 38bhp and it went like stink off of the lights. It weighed the same as four paper bags. All relevant. People like to have laugh at some cars, normally because everyone else is laughing, they don't know the truth. Skoda was the but of many jokes, mainly because of the era when they were built in the USSR. Skoda was an amazing car company who for a time had to turn out unfashionable cars to western eyes. The Allegro was a far better car than many of it's era. It's suspension was way ahead of it's time.
Power to weight is important to an extent, but it doesn't tell you much about how a car performs in everyday use. I had a Caterham 7 for a few years. It weighed a fraction over 500KG, 1.6 Rover K Series, official Supersport cam and ECU upgrade, circa 130bhp. It loved to rev, and really came alive at around 5600 RPM up to the 7650 redline. Sounded amazing too. Fairly low torque. 0 to 60mph in under 6 seconds, though I never tried it. But how did it drive? It depends. The gear ratios were important. 1st was super low, for acceleration. 3rd would go from 20 up to 95mph. Top speed in 4th was same as in 5th, not enough power to offset poor aerodynamics. 50 to 70mph in 4th or 5th was embarrassingly slow. But tge overall wheel/tyre size affects acceleration and speed, as does final drive ratio. Power to weight? Around 260bhp per ton. 🙂
From my experience, this can be due to the piston in the carburettor sticking at some point due to dirt. If you take the carburettor top off you'll likely find dirt in the cylinder and round the piston. That will almost certainly clean up the power and the smoke coming out of the back.
I was brought up to believe A series engines had a relatively long stroke which equated to great torque figures but didnt like to rev to high as it also only had a three main bearing crank! A good torque band makes for relaxed cruising and an ability to maintain a higher than expected average speed without thrashing it.
Long stroke giving great torque numbers is somewhat of a myth, in that its only somewhat correlated and not very strongly at that. Also, the word "torque" is a misnomer as most UK people use it, what they really mean is "low rpm power".
Me too. But these days I suspect the real revving problem was the cylinder head. Also I reckon the gears-in-sump alloy housing actually reinforce the bottom of the crank case quite alot. i never heard of a crank breaking in the middle but I did once lose the flywheel end!
To fair the short-stroke Hillman Imp engine likes to rev high, but also has a three bearing crank (Coventry-Climax derived?). Do those in the know, know if race versions of the Coventry-Climax inline-four have five main bearings?
@@Mr_Spegru "the real revving problem was the cylinder head" Well it's a pushrod engine and the bores are kind of small, so you are never going to fit particularly big valves. Whereas the Imp had the SOHC layout and bigger bores suited to bigger valves (though it wasn't crossflow and was also still 2-valve). Depends what people like! Interestingly where the Jaguar six used the DOHC layout, the Jaguar twelve used a similar SOHC layout to the Imp (albeit crossflow) -- both also designed with input of Coventry Climax engineers AFAIK.🙂
This is true for most of them, apart from the ultra-rare 970cc and 1070cc Cooper S versions, which were over-square, i.e., bore bigger than stroke. The 1275cc MG Midget engine in my Minor Traveller pulls away quite sweetly from 20mph in top gear.
Check the plunger in the carb has the right amount of oil and the dizzy to make sure its moving freely. That dip is just something sticking but it will probably show itself as poor mpg or weird throttle response eventually.
@@FMFGUF The best part is there's nothing difficult or expensive in there so whatever it is a day of tinkering will fix it and if you want to have a fiddle you can probably get a few more hp out of it while you're there. Or stick some twin SU's on and cam it for a right laugh.
@@RichardSFord That all depends on how/where its sticking. The fact it did it in two different places on two different runs suggests something sticking over a setup issue and when people who don't know there needs to be oil rebuild an SU its quite common to see them dry. Sometimes that allows them to run too freely - especially if the sliders are worn - but it can also lead to them binding in random places. I've had both over the years.
My Dad's Mark 3 Allegro smoked badly and used huge amounts of oil. The BL dealer claimed all was within spec. He had three Allegros, starting with one with the Quartic steering wheel
Inlet valves are not sealed properly. Had an HLS for 4 years. Twin headlights. Round steering wheel factory sunroof. Excellent comfort. Paid £400 for it and just drove it. Best value motoring I ever had. Went to a Saab 900 turbo which was a bit more sturdy.
Rich the difference in the curves makes me think that the distributor need a clean and setting up properly so many people fit electronic ignition to these and completely disregard what happens under the base plate . As for the smoke from the exhaust ,dwell being behind will stop clean burning ,however I don't suppose for one moment that Alex usually drives it that hard so it's clearing itself out a bit and The overrun light grey !.. is more than lightly valve stem oil seals and whilst I'm at it the crankcase breathers block up as they are on the flywheel end of the engine and tend to run that bit hotter.
My dad had an Allegro back in the day. It's the only car he ever bought new. He always maintained it was a perfectly good car, the only issue he had with it was that the boot always leaked.
I had an old 78 S reg 1100 super with a 1300 replacement engine apart from dropping a CV joint it just kept going this was my first car in 1987 when I first passed my driving test
Ok lets get a cam, extractors, piston and rings for that smoke, 40-50mm big bore (lol), and webber carb give it some love. A set of period correct alloys would make a really cool little runabout.
Sticking piston sounds favourite - but whats the oil breather on that engine? Just been sorting mine (Minor 1275). There are several variations and I reckon having the vacumn straight off the carb is probably best - certainly better than feeding fumes into the filter housing. If its vented filler cap and an MG style breather valve, check the cap is clean and the valve isnt stuck or deteriorated.
Took one of these motors onto the M2 and kept the throttle wide open until smoke emerged from the engine bay. Pulled into a service station and opened the bonnet to find that the oil filler cap had melted into the rocker box. Let it cool down then limped home.
Looking at those stats…44KW/94NM…and here I am driving something with 274KW/510NM…Shows how far we’ve come with engine technology. I must admit, I have a soft spot for the Allegro and wouldn’t mind owning one. Few and far between here in Australia but there are some here that have been privately imported… I was wondering on the second spool-up, with the cam at the rear, that once the little wagon cleared its throat that something popped inside the engine. That blue smoke at the end concerned me. In my experience, I’d never max out an old British power plant as they have a tendency to spit the dummy. Still impressed with that little machine though…
The 1275 engine is renowned for its tuneability replace the carb and manifold with a HIF44 and a 1.5" exhaust and you are at mini cooper power ratings "original mini not bmw mini"
That's what I've done with a 1275cc MG Midget engine in a Morris Traveller; it goes very nicely and returns no worse fuel economy than I got from the standard 1098cc.
Unpopular opinion but as I get older, I appreciate brown cars again 😆. I'm also impressed with the numbers. In fact it's not uncommon for them to gain a few hp over the years .cool car. I'd love to see some some old ford escorts, rovers etc. Also the white smoke is oil, maybe it just needs a good run to clear things out. It could caked in carbon too on the valves etc. A good run could help clear things out.
Ah, the memories. My mum let me use her brown allegro ojx 213t, I think was the reg. Maybe not her best decision as I was 17 at the time and managed to sheer both drive shafts…not my fault 😂.
I'm sure there must have been some people outside the factory who dyno tested Allegros when they were new, if only to catch out the people who wrote the brochure. The interesting question is, Has anyone put an Allegro on a rolling road *this century*? Feeling old yet? BTW, it is obvious what is happening to that dip in the curve. It started at the top, and the first run shook it down a bit. If you'd persisted, it would have slipped right off the origin of the graph. You'd have turned into a kipper, but there's a price for everything.
Only the latest of the series 3 had the A - PLUS engine. Unfortunately, my series 3 still had the original engine. The A - PLUS was a completely reworked engine, that was quiet and smooth, like the 1500 always was! Personally, I feel the quietness of the A - PLUS outweighs any slight powe increase!
I could be wrong, but it looked like burning oil to me, but only at high revs, so I suspect it is getting past the valve seals, maybe just on one or two inlets valve stems. Or tell me I am barking up the wrong tree!
the difference in the A & A+ series engines is in fact the cylinder head, the A+ plus was/is better gas flowed and and the valves and valve gear were re designed to give better longavity to the engine and also more torque and slightly more power. Visually there is nothing to tell the differnce, but take the rocker cover off and the rocker assembley is different, but both A and A+ plus parts are interchangable. the 998cc and 1275cc veriants are very tunable and can make huge power, where as the 848cc and 1071cc are not.
A friend of a friend had an Allegro. It wouldn't pull and, would I have a look at it? Foolishly, its owner bought it without knowing anything about it. And perhaps more foolishly I said I would. And I did. After examining the beast, all 1300cc of it, I knew it need a decoke for starters. Head removed, it was a wonder it ran at all, so carboned up was it. All cleaned, including ports and valves lapped in, the head was replaced. The SU was filthy, so it too was stripped and cleaned and given an ultrasonic bath. Distributor springs were weak, so were replaced. Oil and filter change plus cooling system flushed, the beast was fired up. I had driven the car beforehand so knew what it was like. Handed back to its owner, who was delighted. Not so his wife, who had expected him home hours earlier. This particular car still had its rectangular steering wheel, its first owner keeping it, in spite of his dealer offering to change it for something more circular.
Friend of mine bought a shit brown allegro 1750HLS with twin su's, the same set up in the austin maxi sport or whatever it was. TBH, his 1750 allegro was pretty quick in a laid back way. an abundance or torque etc.
my mate had one too in the mid 80's. agree with what you say. that engine was usually reserved for hauling the bigger and heavier Maxi around and they were're exactly a slouch either.
Is the petrol super unleaded ? With a lead replacement? As I guess the head can not run on unleaded fuel so check the exhaust valves ? That’s what could be causing that dip ? But well done little Argo 👍🏼
@@herseem I had the heads on the capri converted to run on unleaded and know from other members with classic guys who have had this problem, she’s also smoking what is another sign that the oil seals on the valves need doing 👍
Guessing here: the kink seemed to occur as the puff of grey smoke. Possibly a weak plug. Possibly nasty fuel. The blue/white smoke on run-down could well be stem seals. Otherwise, very smooth power graph!
Please please swap the intake manifold, throttle and injectors from the track saxo vtr onto dumpit and see what difference it makes, just as an experiment
Question for you guys that have or have been to a rolling road. Why do they typically get up to 3rd, 4th or even fifth gear to get the readings. Why is 1st gear not suitable?
4th is the closest 1:1 gear ratio, so it negates as many differences between flywheel output and wheel output as possible. Obviously there are still gear reductions even in 4th, but less of them. It also helps to iron out vibrations in the drivetrain that a lower gear might suffer from, which could potentially affect the reading. In my experience, the flywheel figure for est. BHP doesn't really change much if you do the run in 2nd, 3rd or 4th. The only thing that noticeably changes is the measured wheel torque figure (because 2nd gear will amplify torque output at the expense of road speed, for example) but for the flywheel figures the computer seems wise to it. I'm planning to do a video explaining all about the dyno sometime soon.
I bought an N reg 1975 two door one back in 86 as it was the cheapest car in my local paper at £130. It was the most hideous colour known to man ‘Limeflower’ same as a fluorescent workers jacket!…Ran like a bomb but rust did for it in the end and I got £40 for it! Happy days!….
@@AllThingsAlex My brother and I used to set the ignition timing on our minis using a local uphill stretch of road and a stopwatch! With standard 998s and 1275s they generally seemed to like a few degrees more timing than standard. Might want to check the engine breather is all clear, smoking under load can be caused by excessive crankcase pressure, usually followed by oil leaks/
How does a dyno measure engine power ? 5:45 here I can see WHP which is logical, surely there is no way to know what resistance there is in the drive train to give the engine HP figure without dyno testing the engine only on a frame.
Nah, I did it stone cold. Drained the oil out too (for less friction). It's not a dyno facility, it's a small warehouse with a dyno in the corner of it. Dyno cells need extraction; this isn't a dyno cell.
@@BigPaul62 I wasn't dreaming. I knew they either made one or it was an easy engine swap. I lusted after a 1750 Allegro. I knew the 1275 wasn't slow so having 1750 would be special. Ate Mexico's for breakfast. Who's laughing at the Allegro now then. Lovely to hear
If i lived a bit closer, i would bring you my daily in use, +225k miles Triumph Spitfire 1500. Did have a rebuild engine with spit mk3 cam and goes well. But sadly Belgium is a bit far. Ps, keep up making the video's, they are great !
I wonder what a service and light upgrades could do for it… Replace the gaskets, fuel filter, air filter, upgrade to electronic ignition, replace HT leads, re-do the carb. Gain an extra 5bhp?
I'm going to call it, no one has ever Dyno tested a russet brown 1.3 Allegro before. This is a world first
it's like polishing a 59BHP TURD!!!
@@TheMentalblockrock How very dare you. That thing's so bad it's good. Brownest car so far.
1.3 L!! That's tiny! I've got bigger pieces of corn in me Crap!!😋
@@TheMentalblockrock At least its correct colour
Rollin’ in my one-point-three!
The world needs more Poo brown BL lovelyness
I'm finding a love for rubbish from the 70’s - bought a Marina!
IMO the allegro looks like those girls whose front teeth are ingrown and they smile...
Agreed. So awful it's good.
I loved my Marina in the 1980s.
No pianos ever fell on it.
@@miketucker7466 Damned ugly color!!
@@FredScuttle456 A white car crossed in front of me in Raynes Park ( UK ) in the early 1980's ... sprayed in blue paint , down the side : [ DONT BUY AN AVENGER ] 😝 ....... DAVE™🛑
59 bhp from new , now 58.6 bhp , lost barely anything considering age , mileage, etc , well done , in fact very well done.
That's what I was thinking - great result for the venerable A-series engine!
It didn’t have much to lose
And I reckon the A+ block wouldn't contribute anything. The differences, power-wise, would surely all be in the head, carburation and manifolds?
@@timsmith5339 Indeed, apart from the crankcase ribs adding some torsional strength, but also weight.
A+ generally had higher compression and that from different pistons. Then 'better' camshaft in the A+ helps that little bit to. Maybe better tolerances in them to. A bad/worn out, or very well built gearbox can make a lot of difference.
It is indeed a rare event hearing the words 'Austin Allegro' and 'power' used in the same sentence.
I think all that stuff from the tailpipe was due to you giving it the beans and it cleared it's throat. That car runs as nice as it looks. Yes, I like the way it looks, brown and all.
This is the content we've been waiting for! Old nails on the Dyno!
My family (me, mom, dad, my brother) went up Porlock Hill in Somerset back in the 80s in a brown Allegro. Some of that hill is 1-in-4. We made it, but it was terrifying. My mom noticed a sign saying 'emergency exit' and suggested we take it, not realising it was a 100m gravel track leading to a sandbank full of broken headlight and radiator parts.
What was the emergency?
@@davidmoore4615 There was a very definite smell of smoking brakes - this was a second-hand Allegro with four people in it and not exactly over-endowed with power. Every time we were forced to stop due to other traffic, my dad hauled on the brakes to stop us and executed a very careful hill start when we had room in front. I was a teenager at the time, but I bet my dad hoovered up a good part of the seat cover with his butt cheeks while doing those. And yes, we had to stop on multiple occasions because there are a lot of turns on that hill, some with sheer drops visible beyond a low wall one side. There were more than a few tourists sweating bullets. On the way back we saw a hole in a hedge and a badly dented car sitting in the plowed field beyond it.
I remember seeing a whole line of these brand new Allegros all parked up behind a white picket fence at Mitton Motors in Tewkesbury. I think the brown was their most exciting colour. It needed 5* full lead petrol - also smelt so good!
BL Russet Brown, my 1980 MGB is done in this colour. It seems to have landed on Jaguars, Triumphs, Austins. Anyone seen a Rover in this colour? Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦
The allegro will probably do better than some people will give it credit for .
Cool dyno run
Should check the SU carb for dashpot oil. You need it for enrichment on acceleration.
I found the oil in SU carbs was very important. I always used 3 in 1 which worked just fine.
I think we might be learning more about cars engines than we think with this. Stealth education.
Absolutely great of everyone involved in allowing the dyno runs.
Wow he was a bit smokey lol. Unusual dip there yes, but its happy enough it seems. Certainly for the type of use he gets its nothing to worry about. Another fine video sir, and thanks for the shout out!
Is your surname 'Brown', perchance?
That would be perfect. 😁
Yes a fair performance from tye little Allegro but at some stage I’d get the ignition / fuelling looked at, and also the brakes as mentioned in the first “review” video. Have you seen the video on Twin Cam where Ed gets his Metro A+ gone through by a tuning expert ?
@@johnmoruzzi7236the book by David Vizard is all anyone needs!
Electronic ignition might help.
I fondly remember childhood memories of being sick in the back of one of those, ours was in the attractive Harvest Gold paint. Which camouflaged things.
I love the top gear style leader board!
I reckon that dip is some kind of resonance thing
Excellent video Rich, I bet Harris Man when he designed the Allegro never thought in 2024 a RUclipsr would be dyno'ing one of his designs.
I had one in early 80s ...tbf it was ok ...my first car ..i was 18....my Dad could fix any little issues and nothing major broke while i owned it. The best bit was if you pulled the manual choke out it actually went like a rocket from standing start....❤
could the dip be the turbo spooling up🤣🤣🤣
Hahaha!
My first car was an Allegro (circa 1986; I do not remember the series or reg.).
No problems transporting our wee Family of Four. Many warm memories of our travels. Treated it/her kindly and the response was more than enough for my, then, expectations.
Thank you. Stay free, UPnDOWN et al.
Rab and The Flown Sons ... 😎 🕊🕊 ⏰
Genuinely mate, you're fast becoming my favourite youtube channel. Your quick humor keep always make me giggle. Keep it up, I have high hopes for this channel! Big love from the other side of England 💯
Thanks, will do!
On today's roads it makes little diy if you have 59bhp or 259 bhp your in traffic doing the same speed as every one else !!
Honestly anything under 100hp and over 1000kg is unsafe in my opinion, especially trying to join a motorway on a very short slip road
@@Aejaky Poppycock !
I drive a diesel 'deo estate daily. Not what you'd call exciting.
A few times, I've taken my wife's Dodge Challenger to work. 375 horsepower gets me home 0 minutes earlier than the 'deo. It's actually frustrating. The 'deo can't brag about BHP, but when you can't use the BHP, at least it has MPG. The Challenger is unsurprisingly thirsty.
@@PipeManPeep more power never hurt anyone
@@Aejaky hurts my wallet! 😆
Drove one of these to the scrap yard once, it was a great introduction to extreme understeer as I nearly plowed over the first Round-about I came too.
Great!! Please keep on testing the cars that never otherwise visit a dyno - love it😊😊😊😊❤
The Allegro estate was a beautiful car.
Was it possibly a poor man’s Reliant Scimitar?
Hi great interesting video, Allegro 1750 twin carb had at the time had 0-60 time same for a xr3. Regards mark
Great to see the awesome power (e.g. more than Hubnut) that George puts out!
I think All things Alex covers cars, and drinking tea ... and occasionally commenting on difficulties getting a cup of tea at a car show ...
Thanks matey lol!
We need more rolling road. As Miss Hubnut hinted at prepping for the Rolling Road.
Plenty more coming...
I like that if I recall you were thinking of selling it and now it’s found a new purpose for RUclips “shorts”*. *shorts measured as per UpnDown measurements 😅
Just to put some context into the figures.
What is important is the power to weight ratio. The Allegro doesn't weigh much so 58 bhp is fine for a runabout car in its day.
If I remember correctly, the original Mini 1000cc or 998cc to those whom it matters, had 38bhp and it went like stink off of the lights. It weighed the same as four paper bags. All relevant.
People like to have laugh at some cars, normally because everyone else is laughing, they don't know the truth. Skoda was the but of many jokes, mainly because of the era when they were built in the USSR. Skoda was an amazing car company who for a time had to turn out unfashionable cars to western eyes.
The Allegro was a far better car than many of it's era. It's suspension was way ahead of it's time.
Power to weight is important to an extent, but it doesn't tell you much about how a car performs in everyday use. I had a Caterham 7 for a few years. It weighed a fraction over 500KG, 1.6 Rover K Series, official Supersport cam and ECU upgrade, circa 130bhp. It loved to rev, and really came alive at around 5600 RPM up to the 7650 redline. Sounded amazing too. Fairly low torque. 0 to 60mph in under 6 seconds, though I never tried it. But how did it drive? It depends. The gear ratios were important. 1st was super low, for acceleration. 3rd would go from 20 up to 95mph. Top speed in 4th was same as in 5th, not enough power to offset poor aerodynamics. 50 to 70mph in 4th or 5th was embarrassingly slow. But tge overall wheel/tyre size affects acceleration and speed, as does final drive ratio. Power to weight? Around 260bhp per ton. 🙂
Torque at the wheels in each gear, combined with kerb weight is probably the best method tbh, but that starts getting complex.
Skoda were built in czechoslovakia ,not the USSR.
Original Mini 850 had 35 hp. Great around town and fun but not the best motorway car.
From my experience, this can be due to the piston in the carburettor sticking at some point due to dirt. If you take the carburettor top off you'll likely find dirt in the cylinder and round the piston. That will almost certainly clean up the power and the smoke coming out of the back.
Thats lovely in fairness...❤
“Allegro’s got vrooom! Miles and miles of vrooom!” Thats all I remember of the original advert.
I do enjoy your references to Hubnut with your rolling road tests on various cars and they are beating Hubnut after Bella's away been fixed
I was brought up to believe A series engines had a relatively long stroke which equated to great torque figures but didnt like to rev to high as it also only had a three main bearing crank!
A good torque band makes for relaxed cruising and an ability to maintain a higher than expected average speed without thrashing it.
Long stroke giving great torque numbers is somewhat of a myth, in that its only somewhat correlated and not very strongly at that.
Also, the word "torque" is a misnomer as most UK people use it, what they really mean is "low rpm power".
Me too. But these days I suspect the real revving problem was the cylinder head.
Also I reckon the gears-in-sump alloy housing actually reinforce the bottom of the crank case quite alot. i never heard of a crank breaking in the middle but I did once lose the flywheel end!
To fair the short-stroke Hillman Imp engine likes to rev high, but also has a three bearing crank (Coventry-Climax derived?). Do those in the know, know if race versions of the Coventry-Climax inline-four have five main bearings?
@@Mr_Spegru "the real revving problem was the cylinder head" Well it's a pushrod engine and the bores are kind of small, so you are never going to fit particularly big valves. Whereas the Imp had the SOHC layout and bigger bores suited to bigger valves (though it wasn't crossflow and was also still 2-valve). Depends what people like! Interestingly where the Jaguar six used the DOHC layout, the Jaguar twelve used a similar SOHC layout to the Imp (albeit crossflow) -- both also designed with input of Coventry Climax engineers AFAIK.🙂
This is true for most of them, apart from the ultra-rare 970cc and 1070cc Cooper S versions, which were over-square, i.e., bore bigger than stroke. The 1275cc MG Midget engine in my Minor Traveller pulls away quite sweetly from 20mph in top gear.
Just found your website it's really a fun thing to do and watch 😂😂
Check the plunger in the carb has the right amount of oil and the dizzy to make sure its moving freely.
That dip is just something sticking but it will probably show itself as poor mpg or weird throttle response eventually.
Indeed, could also be possible worn points and/or failing condensor/dizzy cap/HT leads...
@@FMFGUF The best part is there's nothing difficult or expensive in there so whatever it is a day of tinkering will fix it and if you want to have a fiddle you can probably get a few more hp out of it while you're there.
Or stick some twin SU's on and cam it for a right laugh.
@@RichardSFord That all depends on how/where its sticking. The fact it did it in two different places on two different runs suggests something sticking over a setup issue and when people who don't know there needs to be oil rebuild an SU its quite common to see them dry. Sometimes that allows them to run too freely - especially if the sliders are worn - but it can also lead to them binding in random places.
I've had both over the years.
My Dad's Mark 3 Allegro smoked badly and used huge amounts of oil. The BL dealer claimed all was within spec. He had three Allegros, starting with one with the Quartic steering wheel
Inlet valves are not sealed properly.
Had an HLS for 4 years. Twin headlights.
Round steering wheel factory sunroof.
Excellent comfort.
Paid £400 for it and just drove it.
Best value motoring I ever had.
Went to a Saab 900 turbo which was a bit more sturdy.
Yes, could be valve seat recession, if the cylinder head (an earlier one fitted to this) hasn't been converted to run on lead-free petrol.
Rich the difference in the curves makes me think that the distributor need a clean and setting up properly so many people fit electronic ignition to these and completely disregard what happens under the base plate .
As for the smoke from the exhaust ,dwell being behind will stop clean burning ,however I don't suppose for one moment that Alex usually drives it that hard so it's clearing itself out a bit and The overrun light grey !.. is more than lightly valve stem oil seals and whilst I'm at it the crankcase breathers block up as they are on the flywheel end of the engine and tend to run that bit hotter.
You've put more thought into it there than I have! I literally strapped it on, ran it up and waved it off!
My dad had an Allegro back in the day. It's the only car he ever bought new. He always maintained it was a perfectly good car, the only issue he had with it was that the boot always leaked.
I had an old 78 S reg 1100 super with a 1300 replacement engine apart from dropping a CV joint it just kept going this was my first car in 1987 when I first passed my driving test
Ok lets get a cam, extractors, piston and rings for that smoke, 40-50mm big bore (lol), and webber carb give it some love. A set of period correct alloys would make a really cool little runabout.
Great video! Allegro for the win! 😅😂
This car is peak brown
Legend comment! lol
I always loved the front design, always hates the rear design. But the best is the colour.
Sticking piston sounds favourite - but whats the oil breather on that engine? Just been sorting mine (Minor 1275). There are several variations and I reckon having the vacumn straight off the carb is probably best - certainly better than feeding fumes into the filter housing. If its vented filler cap and an MG style breather valve, check the cap is clean and the valve isnt stuck or deteriorated.
Indeed. Can also be worth flushing out/rebuilding/replacing the crankcase flame-trap filter, as they become clogged after a few years.
This is a great test! Need to get Ellie on there!
What...again?!
Took one of these motors onto the M2 and kept the throttle wide open until smoke emerged from the engine bay. Pulled into a service station and opened the bonnet to find that the oil filler cap had melted into the rocker box. Let it cool down then limped home.
Love the power wall.
I've got a 1098cc Morris minor with a HS4 and a Maniflow Exhaust your welcome to Dyno!
Me too, albeit with a 1275cc MG Midget engine fitted (though I still have the original 1098cc as a spare).
What sort of power do you think it should be making?
@@UPnDOWN factory they are 48bhp, Mabel has a bigger HS4, manifold and exhaust and electronic ignition, I would like to think she has 54bhp maybe more
I'm game, hit the emails if you want.
@@UPnDOWN Not sure. I rebuilt it to stock spec, so should be around the book figure of 65bhp or so, but that was 65,000 miles ago...
Looking at those stats…44KW/94NM…and here I am driving something with 274KW/510NM…Shows how far we’ve come with engine technology. I must admit, I have a soft spot for the Allegro and wouldn’t mind owning one. Few and far between here in Australia but there are some here that have been privately imported…
I was wondering on the second spool-up, with the cam at the rear, that once the little wagon cleared its throat that something popped inside the engine. That blue smoke at the end concerned me. In my experience, I’d never max out an old British power plant as they have a tendency to spit the dummy. Still impressed with that little machine though…
The 1275 engine is renowned for its tuneability replace the carb and manifold with a HIF44 and a 1.5" exhaust and you are at mini cooper power ratings "original mini not bmw mini"
That's what I've done with a 1275cc MG Midget engine in a Morris Traveller; it goes very nicely and returns no worse fuel economy than I got from the standard 1098cc.
@@FMFGUF that's what I also did with my 1973/4 mg midget :)
It would be interesting to let AC Dodd work his magic on it, and see what gains could be had from one of his tuning sessions...
Unpopular opinion but as I get older, I appreciate brown cars again 😆. I'm also impressed with the numbers. In fact it's not uncommon for them to gain a few hp over the years .cool car. I'd love to see some some old ford escorts, rovers etc. Also the white smoke is oil, maybe it just needs a good run to clear things out. It could caked in carbon too on the valves etc. A good run could help clear things out.
Perhaps the carb needs a service/rebuild or could be a fuel filter. It sounded good to me and was running well.
Ah, the memories. My mum let me use her brown allegro ojx 213t, I think was the reg. Maybe not her best decision as I was 17 at the time and managed to sheer both drive shafts…not my fault 😂.
this is epic
I'm sure there must have been some people outside the factory who dyno tested Allegros when they were new, if only to catch out the people who wrote the brochure. The interesting question is, Has anyone put an Allegro on a rolling road *this century*?
Feeling old yet?
BTW, it is obvious what is happening to that dip in the curve. It started at the top, and the first run shook it down a bit. If you'd persisted, it would have slipped right off the origin of the graph. You'd have turned into a kipper, but there's a price for everything.
Only the latest of the series 3 had the A - PLUS engine. Unfortunately, my series 3 still had the original engine. The A - PLUS was a completely reworked engine, that was quiet and smooth, like the 1500 always was!
Personally, I feel the quietness of the A - PLUS outweighs any slight powe increase!
I could be wrong, but it looked like burning oil to me, but only at high revs, so I suspect it is getting past the valve seals, maybe just on one or two inlets valve stems. Or tell me I am barking up the wrong tree!
A head rest for an Allegro would be a game changer.
the difference in the A & A+ series engines is in fact the cylinder head, the A+ plus was/is better gas flowed and and the valves and valve gear were re designed to give better longavity to the engine and also more torque and slightly more power. Visually there is nothing to tell the differnce, but take the rocker cover off and the rocker assembley is different, but both A and A+ plus parts are interchangable. the 998cc and 1275cc veriants are very tunable and can make huge power, where as the 848cc and 1071cc are not.
Try a square steering wheel, gives it a right boost
Blue smoke on the overrun. Worn-out valve guides at a guess. Very common with A series.
Heads been refurbished with new valve guides and unleaded valves. So it shouldnt be that.
@@AllThingsAlex What bought on ebay?
A friend of a friend had an Allegro. It wouldn't pull and, would I have a look at it? Foolishly, its owner bought it without knowing anything about it. And perhaps more foolishly I said I would. And I did. After examining the beast, all 1300cc of it, I knew it need a decoke for starters. Head removed, it was a wonder it ran at all, so carboned up was it. All cleaned, including ports and valves lapped in, the head was replaced. The SU was filthy, so it too was stripped and cleaned and given an ultrasonic bath. Distributor springs were weak, so were replaced. Oil and filter change plus cooling system flushed, the beast was fired up. I had driven the car beforehand so knew what it was like. Handed back to its owner, who was delighted. Not so his wife, who had expected him home hours earlier. This particular car still had its rectangular steering wheel, its first owner keeping it, in spite of his dealer offering to change it for something more circular.
Friend of mine bought a shit brown allegro 1750HLS with twin su's, the same set up in the austin maxi sport or whatever it was. TBH, his 1750 allegro was pretty quick in a laid back way. an abundance or torque etc.
my mate had one too in the mid 80's. agree with what you say. that engine was usually reserved for hauling the bigger and heavier Maxi around and they were're exactly a slouch either.
Please get tuc on the rollers, that will set a new low point 😁
Is the petrol super unleaded ? With a lead replacement? As I guess the head can not run on unleaded fuel so check the exhaust valves ? That’s what could be causing that dip ? But well done little Argo 👍🏼
In my experience, unleaded fuel didn't make any difference. And I was running a higher than standard compression as well (12:1).
@@herseem I had the heads on the capri converted to run on unleaded and know from other members with classic guys who have had this problem, she’s also smoking what is another sign that the oil seals on the valves need doing 👍
I wouldn't laught becasue it's in such superb condition!
Possible sticking vacuum advance on the distributor?
David Vizard understood these A series engines.
Probably just soot collected in the silencers? Or sticky SU dashpot? Slightly stiff advance weights in distributor?
Possibly.
Better than top gear reasonably priced car trial. Moooore!😂
Guessing here: the kink seemed to occur as the puff of grey smoke. Possibly a weak plug. Possibly nasty fuel.
The blue/white smoke on run-down could well be stem seals.
Otherwise, very smooth power graph!
Because I can is the best answer to why.......
KIN HELL! It makes me itch, just looking at it
That's in good condition 👌
Time for a VMax supercharger kit on a Allegro? Most likely another world first if it happens 😅
For some reason, the Allegro always makes me think of Noel Edmonds.
Mk1 humber sceptre... id love to know what they didn't produce power wise
Mr Hubnut has just acquired a Subaru Forrester. Will this be going on the road?😁
He has, and no it isn't (for one fairly fundamental reason!)
@@UPnDOWN aaaahhhh, a taller leaderboard would be required…….
….. and a new dunk that doe 4WD. Doh!
Please please swap the intake manifold, throttle and injectors from the track saxo vtr onto dumpit and see what difference it makes, just as an experiment
The power curve went on strike! Only kidding.
Question for you guys that have or have been to a rolling road.
Why do they typically get up to 3rd, 4th or even fifth gear to get the readings. Why is 1st gear not suitable?
4th is the closest 1:1 gear ratio, so it negates as many differences between flywheel output and wheel output as possible. Obviously there are still gear reductions even in 4th, but less of them. It also helps to iron out vibrations in the drivetrain that a lower gear might suffer from, which could potentially affect the reading.
In my experience, the flywheel figure for est. BHP doesn't really change much if you do the run in 2nd, 3rd or 4th. The only thing that noticeably changes is the measured wheel torque figure (because 2nd gear will amplify torque output at the expense of road speed, for example) but for the flywheel figures the computer seems wise to it.
I'm planning to do a video explaining all about the dyno sometime soon.
@@UPnDOWN many thanks for that. Filled the gap in my knowledge perfectly.
Subbed, and I'll look out for it.
:^)
My Brother in law had a brown one, I had a metallic green one lol
Very good 👍🏻
I bought an N reg 1975 two door one back in 86 as it was the cheapest car in my local paper at £130. It was the most hideous colour known to man
‘Limeflower’ same as a fluorescent workers jacket!…Ran like a bomb but rust did for it in the end and I got £40 for it! Happy days!….
Those dips in the graphs are probably some misfires. Probably easily fixed with some tweeking.
And make sure dizzy advance plate and carb dash pot are free moving.
He does have a slight misfire under load. I also timed it by ear so may not be perfect?
@@AllThingsAlex My brother and I used to set the ignition timing on our minis using a local uphill stretch of road and a stopwatch! With standard 998s and 1275s they generally seemed to like a few degrees more timing than standard. Might want to check the engine breather is all clear, smoking under load can be caused by excessive crankcase pressure, usually followed by oil leaks/
I'm going to say (without watching the run) no. A series tuning is all in the head so with an early head on an A+ block = 59BHP
58.6, I WAS RIGHT!!!!
Not all in the head. Cam in block.
@@mervynsowman51 mostly in the head, according to Vizard, the valve sizes and ports are the key, Cam just gives all revs and no torque!
🎤 "Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm (checks notes in the edit) 62?" 🤔🎸
The old A series was a pretty pokey lump, it’s the build quality of the rest of the car that’s the issue 😂😂
How does a dyno measure engine power ? 5:45 here I can see WHP which is logical, surely there is no way to know what resistance there is in the drive train to give the engine HP figure without dyno testing the engine only on a frame.
Measure's Resistance on the Over Run and Calculates a Corrected Figure.
Hope that engine was already warmed-up.
Worn butterfly.?
Dyno facility without extraction.. how's that allowed ?
Nah, I did it stone cold. Drained the oil out too (for less friction).
It's not a dyno facility, it's a small warehouse with a dyno in the corner of it. Dyno cells need extraction; this isn't a dyno cell.
If its had the extra washer upgrade for the wheel bearings, it might just make it!
Blue smoke on over run, piston rings?
I have a vague memory of a 1750cc Allegro, the engine from the Maxi, can anyone confirm this or was it some Heath Robinson car I saw back then?
Yes, it was called the 1750SS. I had one and it was a flying machine - ate Escort Mexicos for breakfast. Very rare car these days.
@@BigPaul62 I wasn't dreaming. I knew they either made one or it was an easy engine swap. I lusted after a 1750 Allegro.
I knew the 1275 wasn't slow so having 1750 would be special.
Ate Mexico's for breakfast. Who's laughing at the Allegro now then. Lovely to hear
Always quite liked an allagro, I thought about doing a street sleeper.
I expect that dip in the curve was turbo lag haha.
Have to plug in the OBD scanner and do a live data run. Could be some muck clogging the variable cam timing solenoids.
In it's day it was the safest car on the road. You drove down the road. A wheel falls off and a leg grows! 😂
If i lived a bit closer, i would bring you my daily in use, +225k miles Triumph Spitfire 1500.
Did have a rebuild engine with spit mk3 cam and goes well.
But sadly Belgium is a bit far.
Ps, keep up making the video's, they are great !
I wonder what a service and light upgrades could do for it…
Replace the gaskets, fuel filter, air filter, upgrade to electronic ignition, replace HT leads, re-do the carb.
Gain an extra 5bhp?
Throwing good money after bad?
feel free to test my Renault 25 V6 Turbo.... I can swing by if you pay the gas.... :P
Hahaha!