@@azatheeverchosen7615 Sorry to inform you as you are wrong on that one, as there are times we meet Godbert in the MSQ and if you have done the "Hildibrand" questline he calls you something along the line of "You are the friend of my son" and 2nd Hildbrand has a chance to shows up in a MSQ Dungeon in Shadowbringers patch MSQ when the team is running from the summons of Hero's
The biggest issue with Minfilia is that Alphinaud (and later Tataru) basically did everything that she was supposed to do, which had the negative effect of making her a figurehead at best and a damsel in distress at worst.
I feel she might of been a victim of the chaos of the transition between 1.0 and 2.0 story. If given enough time I'm sure she would have been written better. But really I never disliked her or memed on her. Great video, looking forward to the next one.
I think it's even simpiler, she was "Written out" at the end of 2.x. and frankly the writing in ARR was bleh, so while we got to know the other scions better as time went on (hell Alisae didn't even JOIN us until basicly Heavensward) Minfillia did not.
At first, I also thought, "well she seems pretty weak/can't fight, but she seems a pretty good leader(?)" And then I found out that her official job is Miner
I believe being a non-combatant was an intent of her writing. Rather than focus on how to swing a sword or cast spells. She focused on how best to lead and organize the scions. Look at the owners of businesses, they aren’t have time to do things other than focus on the operations of their company, it’s a full time job and even when they are off the clock they are still usually working or planning. Like you said she was the lynchpin that held everyone together. It could also be read that she’s never had to learn to fight because she’s always had people to protect her from the moment she has been orphaned. She‘a also one of the only people that hasn’t harmed someone, she doesn’t have any blood on her hands, unlike us who leaves mounds of bodies in our wake.
I agree with this, I didnt even think about it till now but we're basically serial killers. Even if you found a way to level without killing them yourself the msq by default lands you a high bodycount or accessory to helping the people who killed in your place (tanks, dps). Minfillia's place wasnt to fight, it was to keep everybody together and be their voice. She accomplished plenty in her life without needing to fight, hell look at us: a lot of us cant fight and some of us go on to change the world
They really did her dirty, I kept waiting for her to have a moment like every other character and show off her fighting skills. But instead they Princess Peached her.
Princess Peach also is a great wielder of magic and sometimes uses it. She is a damsel in distress, but she is not always the damsel in distress, and lately in mainstream Mario games Bowser just wants to conquer a place or steal other princesses or powers. These days, we know that Princess Peach’s role is very literally just a role, and a role phased out at that. Minfilia is either a bad combatant or a bad administrator save for focusing the Scions and while their existence does corroborate she serves that function the story does not flatter Minfilia except once.
I appreciate the spirit of this video and I generally feel everyone's characterization in ARR is a bit wonky sometimes (what was even the point of Yda's existence?), but I don't think holding her ShB reincarnation against her is really fair. The girl is very clearly not the same person and only shares the name and abilities. Also, as others have said, she's a literal child with very minimal fighting experience, so of course she's not going to hold her own all that well against that world's strongest military presence.
@@SynodicScribe I know this isn't what he meant, but this makes me think of Graha Tia's hypothesis in Endwalker, the nature of a soul carries over to future reincarnations.
@@TheRedAzuki Honestly, what made me hate Minfilia was that she was mildly annoying, but everyone kept telling me how great she was and how they'd sacrifice anything to save her. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here like "lol no".
When I think of Minfilia I think about the speech Alphinaud makes before the final ARR dungeons to convince the grand company leaders not to give up. When he's done Minfilia basically goes, "yeah, what he said! Also we have to fight the primals." Then in the next cutscene Alphinaud turns and asks how she was so persuasive and charismatic and that he looks up to her for winning the leaders' confidence. On paper she's very competent but every time we see her in the actual game whether it's combat, diplomacy, or managing the scions she's slow, ineffective, or even fully incompetent. RIP Minfilia. In an alternate universe she got to join us in Heavensward and get the full character development treatment everyone else did.
I’d have preferred the the version where she didn’t disappear into the aetherical sea but accompanied the WoL to Ishgard where she finally realises that she needs to toughen up. But to be honest I’d have preferred her to realise early on that she needs to learn to fight. Perhaps after being captured by the Garleans. It would have been so much better for her to train in a discipline of magic or war and become an effective partner to the WoL in killing Primals since she can’t be tempered.
Wishing for an alternate timeline like in Dragonsong Reprise may seem tragic and counterintuitive to EW's lessons, but I often find myself pining for stuff like that. Having these poorly plotted, undone characters makes me feel like we were sundered from their best, deserving versions.Think I'd even comission a fanart project in that vein.
Actually, I think behind closed doors, the writers hate her too. Think about the Bloody Banquet- there's essentially three groups that sacrifice themselves to keep WoL safe, and of those groups, Minfilia is the _only one_ who doesn't come back when she was in the least amount of danger. Yda and Papalymo were holding back a swarm of soldiers, Y'shtola and Thancred were in the midst of an explosion and sent into the lifestream, and Minfilia just... Gets called by Hydaelyn? And then later on she just becomes a vessel for Hydaelyn's will and the Minfilia we know is basically dead. Then we move onto Stormblood, and at the beginning a question is briefly asked of who will lead the Scions now that Minfilia's gone? The MSQ starts so they don't get time to answer until the end, where they essentially laugh and say they can work independently and that they don't need a leader. So, straight from the mouths of her best friends, Minfilia is useless. They don't need a leader. And later on the story, they try to replace Minfilia over and over again. In Heavensward, we got Tataru, who was really the "strong emotionally not physically" character that Minfilia wanted to be. In Stormblood, we got Lyse, which like, come on, she even looks like her. Yda had no identity so they essentially copy-pasted Minfilia's lore so they could make Lyse, the "badass leader" that is also meant to better capture what Minfilia was meant to be. I mean, really: Ascilia's story is that her father was a member of the Ala Mhigan Resistance and when the Empire takes over and she's forced to hide, so she assumes a new alias and would find herself reluctantly accepting a legacy from her mentor's dying breath to become a leader to save Eorzea. Yda's story is that her father was a member of the Ala Mhigan Resistance and when the Empire takes over and she's forced to hide, so she assumes a new alias and would find herself reluctantly accepting a legacy from her mentor's dying breath to become a leader to save Ala Mhigo. And then in Shadowbringers we got a LITERAL replacement for Minfilia in the form of Ryne. Unlike Minfilia, she doesn't use her daggers a way to give you a fetch quest for materia, instead she uses them to fight, and she won't stand idly by while her friends are in pain, she always has to feel like she's involved or otherwise she feels useless. Yet again a rewrite of Minfilia... I don't necessarily hate Minfilia, but I think the writers do. The fact that every expansion (except Endwalker so far) has a character who one-ups Minfilia and insults her is just hilarious to me.
... Thats not what happened. Minfilia didnt die or cease to be when she became the Word of the Mother. If that had been the case, she could've never separated herself from Haydaelyn to save the First. That was only possible because she was her own person. As for the Scions... thats not what they said, either: they deeply respected Minfilia and didnt see that anyone could fill the role as she did. As for the devs: they made her a goddess in a sense... and you call that "hate"?? Myeah, sure.
One of the reasons I don't really get on board with all the Ishikawa praise, despite being aware other writers were involved in post ARR(Moenbryda) , post-HW (Papalymo) or STB(Lyse) and all that. I do get the story is very emotinally resonative, but some characters are treated very poorly by the plot, while others (Nanamo, Y'shtola,G'raha, Gaius, Estinien,Urianger) get to make it back and get screentime and even cheat death (in one case,reveting their unmaking more than once!).
I def feel you on the damseling of an otherwise good character :'( I enjoyed her character throughout ARR, but felt like I was waiting for her to really show her power someday, and the only payoff I really got was during the Warrior of Darkness arc between ARR/HSW and then by the end of SHB. She really was done dirty v.v
I can understand why 1st Minfilia needed to be saved (she is a literal child, fighting against adults and uh. ya know. Ranjit) so i think that point suffers because of the pattern from before, of Minfilia needing to be saved at every turn prior
I was fine with her being weak, because it provided character development for the Scions and especially Thancred. What I couldn't stand was her calling me back to the Waking Sands again...and again...and again....
Her weakness held the Scions back. Notice how in heavensward and beyond the Scions became way more effective of dealing with problems and saving the world.
The moment when Hydalyn tells her to stay behind under the palace is extra dirty because, as the story prior has stated, both you and Minfilia's heard NOTHING from her post Praetorium, where she used so much of her power to protect you from Ultima and stripping the power of the primals from it, even supercharging the Warrior of Light to grant their first T3 Limit Break (or let's be honest, your DPS in the party). This silence lasts through all the post-ARR storyline and at least for the WoL all the way into Heavensward, and yet the only peep we get is a message for Minfilia to... stay behind? The non-combat political leader? Seriously Hydalin what the heck?
I don't consider her losses to the Acians as a real L. Had any of the 14 got truly annoyed with the WoL during ARR content, they would have rag-dolled us if it pleased them.
I think the worst thing about Minfillia seemingly constantly getting kidnapped is the WAY it happened when it happened the second time. If I recall, the Ascian was after Louisiox's staff and Minfillia was kidnapped by proxy because she wouldn't LET GO of it. Like...noncombatant or not, if you're going to put up that kind of dogged resistance with an artifact in your hands you may as well at least *try* to use it. She's not a fighter, she can fail, but I think putting up some actual resistance and being bested would have looked ten times better with the same result.
Oooh so this wasn’t about her outfit. I do like her, she always came across as the strong pillar of hope. Someone that people were willing to unite and work together, like you said.
While at first I was frustrated at how every foe basically b*tchslapped her at every opportunity, it wasn't until I kept playing the game more and more that I understood that she was a fighter, not of the sword and tome type, but the charismatic type. We now take for granted the connections the Scions have with the starter zone cities, but it was thanks to her efforts that we are able to call upon the city states for aid or request special access to places normally off limits
Some kind of bodyguards or other precautions in her HQ would have at least make her looked better prepared then she actually was. But yeah... when I played the story it didn't even occur to me that much.
Ryne felt like one big apology for ARR Minfilia. Despite her age, Ryne can actually fight, never beckons the WoL to an inconvenient location, and always pulls her weight on the field to the point of being willing to take the lead if necessary
Minfilia is really a power house behind the desk kind of person. Which can work one of my all time fav characters Lelouch from Code Geass does not belong on the front line without major help from his Knights and custom made giant robots. Minfilia did so much off screen for us but cause of the nature of the game we don't get to see that. But it was nice to see a version of Princess Peach that is being pushed aside for more then looks. Though thinking of how much the Scions should credit her does remind me of one of themany reasons I don't like tataru is she did not name her ugly ass airship The Minfilia. Lead to an inside joke of her having stolen the ship and was too cheap to buy paint to write over the name of it.
Okay sure minfilia might not been written great but she's a good character but I kind of wish her role as the leader of the Saiyans would have been more active try to fight back then being passive and being captured a lot but that's before she reincarnated into the first which for that minfilia is completely different to The Source One but I guess they have some similarities
Perhaps Minfilia's character was intended to give some truth to Gaius's speech in the Praetoreum, that leaders need to be personally strong, not just politically strong. We see Minfilia as the politically strong leader, but her personal weakness leads her to getting defeated time and again. However, once the WoL becomes something of the defacto leader, their personal strength allows the Scions to step into the light and spearhead more positive change than the group ever did before. Gaius had a point, he was just championing the wrong cause.
I remember hearing Gaius' speech and thinking on it after he said his final words. It rung a strange cord with me, so much so that I couldn't ever see my character worshiping The Twelve ever again. Future expansions and encounters only solidified this for me.
It is pretty funny that Gaius could have been a person who helped the Scions if he was not utterly dedicated to the cause of glorifying Garlemald and then he allies with them anyways. And he also pretty much lays out the central thesis of FFXIV in the process.
I think the most telling part of why minfilia was the head of the scions is brought up during the post heavensward story, when the scions are all back together, and alphinaud suggests electing a new leader, and I believe it's papalymo who says that nobody there is suited to be a leader as nobody there wants to be handicapped in such a way. she's got a leaders soul, she has the power to unite people to a cause, and the will to keep everyone aligned just so
It was fine the first time. HOWEVER! After that first abduction by Livia she should have taken some form of combat training. Hell, even Tataru, the literal smallest of the Scions save Papalymo, and a Lala!WoL at least tried to find someway to contribute to the safety of Minfillia.
I think a big problem with Minfilia was that she was "written out" in ARR when the story was... not that good. The individual scions benefitted from being fleshed out in the expansions while Minfilia were more fleshed out by her absence than presence. While Minfilia is a paragon of Eorzea the problem is that the game tells the player she is, but doesnt sufficently show us that she is. Its luke when someone tries to write a really intelligent character, but are unable to make them act intelligent in the story (Marvels mr Fantastic from Fantastic Four is a good example of this, often being written reeeeally stupid despite being one of the smartest humans in Marvel comics)
Yeah doesn't help that she only has a constant presence in ARR.. the game they had to make in like 2 years, and being the intro all the scions act more distant to us than they do now. Heck, even cid had more connection to the WoL than like papalymo or urianger. Minphilia was our important but nor combat gifted leader that we had to save . And then hydaelyn plucks her and she disappears for a while lol. So i guess fusing her with Hydaelyn was indeed interesting, as well as the minfilias of the first, but that's now completely a different role
I could have sworn that Minfilia fights in the "Escape from Castrum Centri" quests.... but went back and checked and saw that no... you can't even untie her before the battle is over. She has no way to contribute to her own rescue.
@@SynodicScribe at that point, it's not even for the sake of the plot since other scions are also tied up with her, except you can free them in the fight and they contribute to helping you fight back the Imperials. Uriangier is one of the people tied up alongside Minfilia, and once freed, he plays like an Arcanist, summoning a carbuncle and everything. I don't think it would have weakened the plot to let Minfilia pull out her sword and fight back once untied. If anything, that would strengthen her character to show she's capable of fighting back, but chose not to earlier in order to keep everyone else safe.
Anyways tbh i felt more bad for Noraxia i think that was the Sylph's name,i felt more bad for that poor little Sylph that got deaded,by the Garleans,i wish Minfilia could have done something there to save the poor lil Sylph,but she just said "No!" in a very lazy way... TT v TT That part hurt me!,bruh poor lil leafy thing!... TT v TT
First time you fight with mini minfilia, my thought was, well she's already better than adult minfilia. Both fighting wise and personality wise. I found it hard to be sentimental over adult minfilia.
that's a really good way to put it. poor lass got shafted by the writers. though I'll be honest, I wouldn't lump minfillia from first in with her. she only shares the name. none of the experience and little of the personality of old minfillia. getting captured because of a naive mistake of sneaking away makes sense for her. she's just some child with some combat abilities.
I couldn't take her seriously cuz her silly outfit didn't match. She could actually fight in the 1st cuz she had better glam~ that's just as important as a strong weapon.
its a proven fact that smart people can do dumb shit, being smart and resourceful isnt a guarantee they will always use that intelligence or resourcefulness in every situation. also you cant judge first minfilia by the standard of source minfilia... >.>
Minfilia is actually CRITICAL to the story, and a HUGELY important character..... but that's all covered in 1.0..... It's the devs' fault for not explaining it to the new players. What I'm most angry at is the entire ARR-only and later playerbase [who had ZERO knowledge of who she really was or what she'd done] memeing on her until they LITERALLY got her written out with their bitching. Not every female character needs to be a Hashtag-girlboss with combat skills. She - one person - changed the world - and multiple worlds - more than anyone outside of the WoL and the Ascians. By being who she was/is.
I will at least note that she did one thing of note. After being captured at Castrum Centri, she immediately got into gear and prepared for the battle against Gaius by asking Krile to prepare the needed stuff. That is it. That was her administrative shining moment. Fittingly, it is only at the end of ARR - the time where she was the most realized as a necessary non-fighter administrator.
Pfft, she’s been done dirty. She’s just about the only other person we know about during ARR yet she didn’t even TRY to learn how to fight. The only other person who can resist Tempering- the thing that makes the WoL so unique and she doesn’t USE it. Instead she dumps the task of killing primals to the WoL. The rest of my problems with her are outlined in this video. Bear in mind I’m just about to start Stormblood and stopped watching before spoilers for me. But yeah she’s just a helpless weak stupid damsel in distress.
I would've felt her departure has much more honored and worthwhile had she not been reduced do sacrifical damsel. Making a magical girl switch-transition to enhance the split with Ryne so that Ascila can spend time with us in a new, dancer design(postergirl for the class and using F'Lhaminn's legacy) and the decision to let go and have Ryne be her own person is more heartwrenching. I do feel happy G'Raha has a second chance, but it always makes me bitter that he was able to 'let history be rewritten' - as he said - and make it back to the Source as a party member...whereas she could not. I understand her mirroring Big L's martyrdom to avert another catastrophic event, but this is the same game and expansion where not only Y'shtola had her second comeback from death, Gaius was revealed not dead, Estinien gets to officialy join, but G'Raha is even given reality space-time altering second chance. Ascila's second chance is gifted to Ryne...who is not her, and also stays back in another shard, so little comes out of it. And the new Hrothgirl echoes, in that same sense, the feeling of 'this could've been Moen; or she could've sacrificed herself at UT and we'd have a relevant death every expansion all the while having all that mourning by her parents'. I felt the beauty of EW's finale, but more than remembrance, I felt they were missing due to poor plot writing. So many had much more right to be there than other characters.
She was a manager and it's a managers job to manage a team - often from afar. I have not worked in many places where a manager will roll up their sleeves and pull an 18hr shift while sweating right next to you but some of the best places I have worked have been the best because of great managers who care about their collegues. In Minfillias case she was a manager but was summoned to head office by the CEO and we all get to see her at her new role there before we move on to other things. None of this would have happened if HR, sorry I mean the Ascians could take an L on the chin.
I am just happy the 'adult women in young girls body' thing isn't as creepy as it could be. Especially coming from storm blood in which you captured a female POW who lost her memory and identifies and acts like a little girl, only for 'the good guys' to assign her to serve as maid? to an old ass man who say 'you are so beatiful' to her face.
To be fair, Neb is still an Ascian. Low tier, but still able to dance around just about everyone else on the planet or just about. So that example is kinda justified, but not excusable. Personally I feel the raid on the sahaguin would be a better example of her d.i.d syndrome where she has to be protected from warriors the wol and the rest of the scions, with one exception, can go through with little issue. That aside, I wouldn't mind a video about our long spoken friend Urianger.
Thank you! I love the story and lore, but never understood why we should care about or hold up Minfilia. She was just never given more of a chance than the tired damzel in distress trope.
I think you are placing too much emphasis on martial prowess to avoid being a weak character, a mistake that Hollywood unfortunately seems to agree with. Minfilia isn’t weak or done dirty because she can’t fight, in fact we need more damsels in distress, I believe. She was strong of character, strong in principles, she was feminine and not ashamed of it, she was an expert in organization and networking seeing as it is her word that gives us retainers, AND she became someone the Scions aspired to be in some capacity. Whether she was their hope, their inspiration, their confidant or even their sister/mother figure, she was someone everyone in the Scions had some aspirations they looked up to. Her inability to fight does not make her weak or disrespects her. It shows how much her influence is so that those who could fight would put themselves between her and her enemies without pay or reward.
Synodic: Hold on, before you call me misogynistic. FFXIV Fandom since 2.0: No need, we've always meme'd on her. Me who joined during 4.x: ...I was hoping for the best.
I don't think she's a damsel in distress - yes, she often needs to be rescued, but the damsel trope is about characters who only exist to be rescued by the hero. I don't think she's a bad character because she doesn't excel at violence. The story tells us that she's an important leader, but unlike Alphinaud later on she doesn't really bring people together or make tactical decisions. I think that's the real flaw in her writing, not that she sometimes gets captured or that she's not a fighter.
I think you said a lot well. I liked Minfilia for what she was supposed to be. And not so much for what she actually was. She was presumably very educated but balanced that with her instincts and genuine wholeheartedness. Many things did her a disservice including the voice acting, using her as a mechanic to progress the story, constant unwanted visits in her office from the enemy... And are we ever going to get to use that trap door in the office of the Rising Stones?!
Honestly ever since they put Unukalhai in the office of the Rising Stones we've mostly stopped using it. I assume because it wouldn't make sense if he were to disappear and then reappear between cutscenes.
Honestly ever since they put Unukalhai in the office of the Rising Stones we've mostly stopped using it. I assume because it wouldn't make sense if he were to disappear and then reappear between cutscenes.
Honestly ever since they put Unukalhai in the office of the Rising Stones we've mostly stopped using it. I assume because it wouldn't make sense if he were to disappear and then reappear between cutscenes.
Ok, to be fair for her reincarnation, she kinda got spawn camped, got rescued by Thancred, *then* got captured again. But yea, aside from all the things she supposedly did off screen, you could have easily just had Tataru as the leader of the Scions like she eventually ended up being. They could have kept Minfillia as a love interest for either Thancred before Urianger "beckoned unto his compatriot to partake upon the utmost academic of inquiries to that which lie twixt hills bookended with not more than two t's" or your character until you Game Stop trade her in for a cat boy.
ARR/2.0 writing is just kind of a wash. Didn't they have something like less than a year to draft and finalize the entire script? I always figured that was why the characterization for most characters felt so barren and paint-by-numbers. Tataru and Krile come off as more accomplished managers/administrators of the Scions -- they recruit the B Team Scions after the Crystal Braves, establish the Rising Stones, setup a whole worldwide intelligence service off-camera with the help of Riol, strongarm Estinien into joining, and manage all anti-primal operations in Eorzea by themselves with the B Team while the Archons are on the First.
Go unstoppable lala duo! 😂 they literally bullied Estinien into helping (I’m not just saying that, one of the side stories on the lodestone literally talks about how they managed it)
I think it's important to note that Minfilia did not make the decision to stall the 8th umbral calamity. Hydaelyn did in Minfilia's body. Minfilia, at least of the time in heavensward, is very, very fucking dead. You do not speak to her again after the tunnel. I believe this was retconned in Shadowbringers because it makes a better story if Minfilia is actually there, not just the voice of hydaelyn.
Honestly, Minfilia being weak isn't what I disliked about her. She's not a combatant. She's a manager, an administrator. It makes sense that she'd fold like a house of cards if anyone so much as coughed in her general direction. She doesn't need to be powerful. Where I will differ from you is, honestly, I will whole heartedly say Minfilia is a god awful character and her importance in the story only adds to my frustration with her, because clearly they had something in mind with her. At least contextual of ARR (apparently 1.0 is better about it, but some people disagree on this?), Minfilia is entirely a "Tell don't show" character. We never see her do... Anything. She never built anything, she never diplomatically negotiated something. Hell, her noble sacrifice to the garleans didn't even work because they then proceeded to slaughter the waking sands in a massacre that you have to clean up. All her attempts at diplomacy end in failure, all her attempts to negotiate leave us worse off for it, and all the big diplomatic swings are handled by Alphinaud, and even then it's technically handled by us, and Alphinaud just claims the credit for it. Yet despite all of this, despite everything that she shows us, we are simply expected to believe that Minfilia is somehow this deeply inspirational figure, great leader of men, and master diplomat. What an absolute joke.
I like to think of Minfilia as a politician hanging around with military long enough to start believing she's also a capable combatant. She simply was a civilian administrator of a paramilitary.
And props to Minfilia; while the Scions were organized, she was necessary for the Scions to do what they do in Eorzea. It’s just that the story makes her look like crumbling scaffolding.
You don't have to add an apology at the beginning. She is completely helpless and useless. It's not misogynistic to point out a factual truth. Ryne is everything that Minfillia wasn't. Good.
I am indifferent about her, shes just a mouth peace but at least not obnoxious. Mind you, I'm a fan of Orihime who is not combatant but a healer and emotional encouragement. I just didnt feel like she did much physically and Alphinaud was alot more of a diplomat to overshadow her
I guess it can't be helped in an MMO/fantasy adventure for a character's battle prowess to be valued above all. But it never really made sense to me that Minfilia would be derided so much specifically for being a non-combatant. A few high-profile MSQ streamers tore into her for not having a flashy butt-kicking scene. Even this video contrasts her being "smart, tactful, and charismatic" with being "weak and helpless" as though there's an inherent contradiction. I guess in a setting with powerful mages, it's not uncommon to see people with high mental stats also sporting powerful spells, but I don't think that would be a given in the setting. Nonetheless, after ARR we don't see figureheads who can't kick at least a little butt, and I suspect fan reception of Minfilia had something to do with that. I'm kinda surprised Nanamo hasn't become a BLM yet.
Unfortunately, when the political leaders of different countries are seen on the front lines during conflict, and she's surrounded by people who have fought would be gods. Being the leader of a task force that needs constant saving makes her stick out like a sore thumb.
Ah, Minfailia. The weakest of the Scion characters, in more ways than one. The potential was there, but I suppose she had to make way so our WoL can be the center of attention instead.
I always thought that she is probably be capable of taking out a common thug, but she certainly couldn’t take on anyone with any real training. And no I have no real evidence of this, but it seems likely.
That's fair. I actually played FF Brave Exvius before FFXIV as well, so that was also basically my first impression of the Scions! However, even in FFBE, Minfillia's Limit Burst involves her summoning the other Scions to "Pray Return to Beat Up This Enemy for Me!"
why do keep calling minfillia a figurehead just because she can't fight? fighting isn't like, a required skill of leadership. the scions have tons of fighters.
I still think Minfilia was the weakest link in ARR's presentation. She was a high level bureaucrat that dispatched adventurers to solve problems because telling everyone else what to do was her superpower, and the echo seemed shoehorned in to support her being in charge bexause without it her appointment would seem totally arbitrary. When she made The Sacrifice I could only roll my eyes, all the game ever showed me of her was her being useless. It's unfair because without her the Scions (which also seemed equally useless larpers) wouldnt exist and you the player might not've grown into a hero. Who knows. And plenty of people came in with clutch victories and The Sacrifices of their own. That she came in with all the power she never implied she had to solve a problem the player was already fixing and who seemed to have magnitudes more ability than her, had to watch whule she kill-stole seemed like a tremendous insult. Come shadowbringers the player learns Minfilia is more like the namr for a cosmic cycle of saviour-rebirth or something and her whole thing seemed contrived.
I didn't hate her, but i did question why she has no fighting skill whatsoever. Like... this line of work puts her at risk, as well- why *wouldn't* she take up a discipline? I mean, even Tataru made an attempt and she was in less danger due to her role within the scions.
And technically Tataru has a very unique type of arcanism, so she is legitimately not unskilled at battling if she tried, but she really does prefer social warfare and crafts and dominates in those. Minfilia is just an administrative person. Admittedly, she is an administrative person in a world that has countries like today, so she clears the way to make the Scions’ efforts go smoothly, but in the end she really was a damsel in distress, albeit a competent one that was good enough until the Crystal Braves crisis.
My guy: your fist 2 examples are literally things she couldn't do shit about even if she could fight and the 3rd is unfair. She has a staff but has never shown any aptitude or knowledge on casting spells. Like, do you also expect someone to know how to operate and launch an AA missile when the big bad Ascians pull up on them in their plot plane?
@@SynodicScribe Would've made me laugh to watch her swing a pickaxe at Elidibus. Like "Yes. My rusty copper pickaxe shall defeat this centuries old powerful being"
Until 'Yda' unmasked herself as Lyse, Minfilia was my favourite waifu and I was utterly devastated finding out what had become of her after she stayed behind in ARR. But yeah... I also wished that these situations could have served to gradually strengthen her. Every other Scion had some character development... they grew. I mean Thancred goes from Roguish Ladies' Man to Sad Daddy Gunbreaker Alphinaud goes from Arrogant, Spoiled Do-Gooder Princeling to a more humble, receptive individual without necessarily losing his idealistic streak. Urianger goes from Passive Book Nerd to playing a more active role... unfortunately he still talks like he's at a Society For Creative Anachronism event. 'Yda' goes from masquerading as her dead sister and living in the shadow of Papalymo to being a strong, charismatic leader and finally becomes her true self as Lyse. Minfilia had no character development at all as herself. We only knew Ryne for a short amount of time, but she got so much more development than Minfilia... going from a stand-in for Minfilia to becoming her own person and even starting to build confidence and make friends. Her role also grew Thancred as a character as he was pretty much her father figure.
Being charismatic and able to bring people together has absolutely nothing to do with being good at combat. That Minfillia, the voice of Hydaelyn, is a constant target, especially for Ascians, is like… absolutely no surprise. I have seen three videos by you, tried to be open minded because I generally love listening to analyses of FF XIV… but seriously, you are the first youtuber that seems to always be way off the mark and using cherry picking to make points. Like claiming that Lyse was reckless about letting tempered into the castle, when EVERYONE else was just as surprised by the attack because - as you neglect to mention - no crystals were allowed inside. Or how you ignore the fact that Minfillia is a Miner, not a battle-class, and so on, and so forth. I cannot listen to any more of this… Thank goodness for the “don’t recommend this channel” option. 😵💫
I am female, and I don't think your analysis is misogynistic. I think Minfilia is written as a classic "damsel in distress" -- which is a misogynist trope. At one point I was kind of screaming at the screen "Open up your linkshell so other people can hear what's going on there. You could disguise it as flipping your hair or something!" Also, frankly, I think she likes the sound of her own voice a bit too much in ARR. But let's face it, Tataru is smart, tactful, and has great soft skills. And her character is far better written. She gets to use her soft skills. She gets to try to learn to fight, and find her strengths by finding that she is a better administrator and spy, and that's vital. By the end of the saga, most people probably have incredible respect for Tataru, and roll their eyes at the cardboard writing in Minfilia's case. We never get the chance to see what Minfilia is doing. You could see her all the way to her role as a voice of Hydalen without appreciating her theoretical diplomatic ability or much else. Her main job is to be the symbol of purity that you have to rescue over and over again, because not only is she not a fighter, but she displays no common sense in the face of danger.
It's not fair to Minfillia really. In an organization filled with members that are prepared to fight and die at a moments notice she's made to be this helpless damsel in almost every seen, and that doesn't feel fair.
No, I think you should make fun of her. Shes quite literally the most useless character. She got moenbryda killed because of how useless she is. I dont like her and anything that happened with her didnt phase me at all. Like yeah shes really nice but like. Oh. My. God. Shes the most damsel in distress of damsels in distress. Princess peach would destroy her in 2 seconds flat. Also her VA is TERRIBLE. Literally I play monster prom with more emotion than her VA. By the way I'm a woman dont call me sexist
She was secretly Ascian agent! She is tasked to to delay WOL's development by frequently demanding "pray return to walking sands". TBH.. It was a poorly written character (drama queen) and unnecessary in story SE decided to get rid of her :3
She's more like a princess than the leader of a resistance. She has the same power as we do, but she can't fight for shit. How? We're far better fit as leader than Minfilia. *cue Senator Armstrong's theme*
@@Pleyway That doesn't excuse her being useless while all the people without the echo are doing the hard shit. Thancred can't even manipulate aether ffs. What does Minfilia do? Talk and get beaten like a dog. Krile gets kidnapped. Tataru is more useful than both of them.
@@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668 She is far from useless, she is a leader and a diplomat, she is literally the reason the Scions worked as an organization and when she was gone it did not function nearly as well for a long time. You don't have to be a fighter to be a strong or useful character. And Krile literally went to Sharlyan to be their contact there and try and get them into Old Sharlyan. So no, neither are useless.
Your channel would be perfect if you were polite to avoid the character hate. Damn such a waste. Such an almost good channel. Was going to recommend but no way with those videos.
How are you gonna have a clickbait title then get mad if people react to the clickbait title lol I think thats the point shes suppose to be weak, it makes sense to me, she knows she is shit at fighting so she trys not to fight, except in emotionally charged situations. Like plenty of non fighting characters like tataru are used this way. Minfilia probably wouldnt have even created the scions if she were stronger, shed probably just view it as putting her firends in unnecessary harm. She is there to help and support the warrior of light thats her purpose and she knows it.
This video was really interesting to listen to, because I genuinely think she's a poorly written character and never liked her, yet your criticisms of her don't really come off as addressing and actual _problems_ with her. All you really said was that she was a damsel in distress, which is really just a trope that can be done well or poorly depending on the writer handling it. In fact, despite me thinking she was badly written, I'd actually _defend_ her from the criticisms you made. She held an administrative, diplomatic, and political position within the Scions. That's why she was the leader, because she was, ostensibly, the best person to represent them to other groups and factions while managing their goals and resources. _Of course_ she gets defeated whenever anyone of any physical or magical might attacks her. She's a manager. The Scion CEO. She has a literal desk job. She is a non-combatant. I would criticize her even more if she won any fights because she'd have no business winning them. Nonono, the reasons she's poorly written are due to borderline nonexistent character development, and the plot telling us how charismatic and competent she is while all the events of the game we see her in show her as very poorly spoken, whiny, and stupid. Hell, the scene you showed of her getting thumped by Elidibus? I have a problem with that scene that has nothing to do with her being a "damsel." This game _tells_ us she's smart, competent, and level headed. This game then _shows_ us she's an absolute moron who runs at Ascians with no plan or weapons or... reason to run at them? Why the fuck did she do that? She could have done nothing and Elidibus would have left, if I'm remembering the scene right. The fact she lost that encounter is good writing because it's consistent with the power levels between the two characters. The scene overall and the fact the encounter even happened is BAD writing because THERE WAS NO REASON for Minfillia to do something that stupid. ARR is full of this character everybody lauds and respects constantly proving her gross incompetence every step of the way, while giving the WoL grating, person whine-time cutscenes in her office where she shows just how weak willed and pathetic she is. Damn near everything she complains about is something other characters shoulder without having breakdowns every week. Yeah, she has a stressful job and a rough past but god damn, you're wasting the _eikon slayer's_ time moaning about how you lack confidence, and aren't sure you're always making the best choices and how hard it is to be you. I dunno man, I don't get why people like her. I literally forgot about her and moved on by the time I got into HW. Even the idea she was the linchpin is kind of funny to think about when the WoL immediately takes that role after her death and does it better. I know "lol Minfilia is useless" is kind of a meme and a simplification, but it's kinda true. I only learned it was a common saying recently, because I was saying it as I was catching up on MSQ without any knowledge of what people thought or any spoilers. She really is just a poorly written and presented character.
I was fine with her being weak for what she was in that all the rest of the Saiyans are capable in combat and she's not which makes sense why she's the person who stays at the home base and relays the orders to all the people who can actually fight
I mean in fairness to her lack of combat prowess... she's canonically a disciple of the land
Like how Tataru is a canonical Desciple of Hand
She was a miner class before 2.0
To be fair, Godbert kills a Chimera while mostly naked with a Goldsmith Hammer. But that's just Godbert Manderville for you
@@vincentbeton To be fair, the Hildibrand sidestories aren't canon.
@@azatheeverchosen7615 Sorry to inform you as you are wrong on that one, as there are times we meet Godbert in the MSQ and if you have done the "Hildibrand" questline he calls you something along the line of "You are the friend of my son" and 2nd Hildbrand has a chance to shows up in a MSQ Dungeon in Shadowbringers patch MSQ when the team is running from the summons of Hero's
The biggest issue with Minfilia is that Alphinaud (and later Tataru) basically did everything that she was supposed to do, which had the negative effect of making her a figurehead at best and a damsel in distress at worst.
Krile was even the Hydaelin spokeswoman in EW, filling in for her. And Krile gets to shine in DT, where as the Antecent was snuffed out.
I feel she might of been a victim of the chaos of the transition between 1.0 and 2.0 story. If given enough time I'm sure she would have been written better. But really I never disliked her or memed on her.
Great video, looking forward to the next one.
I think it's even simpiler, she was "Written out" at the end of 2.x. and frankly the writing in ARR was bleh, so while we got to know the other scions better as time went on (hell Alisae didn't even JOIN us until basicly Heavensward) Minfillia did not.
At first, I also thought, "well she seems pretty weak/can't fight, but she seems a pretty good leader(?)"
And then I found out that her official job is Miner
Minfilia's writing: Supposed to be a smart, competent leader
Also Minfilia's writing: *Literally FFXIV's version of Princess Peach.*
Nothing wrong with that.
I believe being a non-combatant was an intent of her writing. Rather than focus on how to swing a sword or cast spells. She focused on how best to lead and organize the scions. Look at the owners of businesses, they aren’t have time to do things other than focus on the operations of their company, it’s a full time job and even when they are off the clock they are still usually working or planning. Like you said she was the lynchpin that held everyone together. It could also be read that she’s never had to learn to fight because she’s always had people to protect her from the moment she has been orphaned. She‘a also one of the only people that hasn’t harmed someone, she doesn’t have any blood on her hands, unlike us who leaves mounds of bodies in our wake.
She's also not the only noncombatant in the scions that just simply can't fight at all
I agree with this, I didnt even think about it till now but we're basically serial killers. Even if you found a way to level without killing them yourself the msq by default lands you a high bodycount or accessory to helping the people who killed in your place (tanks, dps). Minfillia's place wasnt to fight, it was to keep everybody together and be their voice. She accomplished plenty in her life without needing to fight, hell look at us: a lot of us cant fight and some of us go on to change the world
They really did her dirty, I kept waiting for her to have a moment like every other character and show off her fighting skills. But instead they Princess Peached her.
That's not a fair comparison.... Peach does insane damage if you give her the frying pan.
@@anthonydelfino6171 so can Hildebrand's mom lol
Princess Peach also is a great wielder of magic and sometimes uses it. She is a damsel in distress, but she is not always the damsel in distress, and lately in mainstream Mario games Bowser just wants to conquer a place or steal other princesses or powers. These days, we know that Princess Peach’s role is very literally just a role, and a role phased out at that. Minfilia is either a bad combatant or a bad administrator save for focusing the Scions and while their existence does corroborate she serves that function the story does not flatter Minfilia except once.
I appreciate the spirit of this video and I generally feel everyone's characterization in ARR is a bit wonky sometimes (what was even the point of Yda's existence?), but I don't think holding her ShB reincarnation against her is really fair. The girl is very clearly not the same person and only shares the name and abilities. Also, as others have said, she's a literal child with very minimal fighting experience, so of course she's not going to hold her own all that well against that world's strongest military presence.
I agree, I was more making the joke that even her spiritual successor was also kidnapped at the start of the expansion. It made me laugh.
@@SynodicScribe I know this isn't what he meant, but this makes me think of Graha Tia's hypothesis in Endwalker, the nature of a soul carries over to future reincarnations.
It’s kind of like the Worf effect. Her prowess is given lip service but the story never gives her the opportunity to demonstrate it.
She's a victim of "tell but doesn't show" writing sadly.
@@TheRedAzuki Honestly, what made me hate Minfilia was that she was mildly annoying, but everyone kept telling me how great she was and how they'd sacrifice anything to save her. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here like "lol no".
@@keelhaulsthingsthatdontmatter That and "Pray return to the Waking Sands."
When I think of Minfilia I think about the speech Alphinaud makes before the final ARR dungeons to convince the grand company leaders not to give up. When he's done Minfilia basically goes, "yeah, what he said! Also we have to fight the primals." Then in the next cutscene Alphinaud turns and asks how she was so persuasive and charismatic and that he looks up to her for winning the leaders' confidence.
On paper she's very competent but every time we see her in the actual game whether it's combat, diplomacy, or managing the scions she's slow, ineffective, or even fully incompetent.
RIP Minfilia. In an alternate universe she got to join us in Heavensward and get the full character development treatment everyone else did.
I’d have preferred the the version where she didn’t disappear into the aetherical sea but accompanied the WoL to Ishgard where she finally realises that she needs to toughen up.
But to be honest I’d have preferred her to realise early on that she needs to learn to fight. Perhaps after being captured by the Garleans. It would have been so much better for her to train in a discipline of magic or war and become an effective partner to the WoL in killing Primals since she can’t be tempered.
@@mikoto7693 As a dancer, she would've been a nice poster girl for the SHB job all the while honouring F'lahminn's legacy.
Wishing for an alternate timeline like in Dragonsong Reprise may seem tragic and counterintuitive to EW's lessons, but I often find myself pining for stuff like that. Having these poorly plotted, undone characters makes me feel like we were sundered from their best, deserving versions.Think I'd even comission a fanart project in that vein.
Actually, I think behind closed doors, the writers hate her too. Think about the Bloody Banquet- there's essentially three groups that sacrifice themselves to keep WoL safe, and of those groups, Minfilia is the _only one_ who doesn't come back when she was in the least amount of danger. Yda and Papalymo were holding back a swarm of soldiers, Y'shtola and Thancred were in the midst of an explosion and sent into the lifestream, and Minfilia just... Gets called by Hydaelyn? And then later on she just becomes a vessel for Hydaelyn's will and the Minfilia we know is basically dead.
Then we move onto Stormblood, and at the beginning a question is briefly asked of who will lead the Scions now that Minfilia's gone? The MSQ starts so they don't get time to answer until the end, where they essentially laugh and say they can work independently and that they don't need a leader. So, straight from the mouths of her best friends, Minfilia is useless. They don't need a leader.
And later on the story, they try to replace Minfilia over and over again. In Heavensward, we got Tataru, who was really the "strong emotionally not physically" character that Minfilia wanted to be.
In Stormblood, we got Lyse, which like, come on, she even looks like her. Yda had no identity so they essentially copy-pasted Minfilia's lore so they could make Lyse, the "badass leader" that is also meant to better capture what Minfilia was meant to be. I mean, really:
Ascilia's story is that her father was a member of the Ala Mhigan Resistance and when the Empire takes over and she's forced to hide, so she assumes a new alias and would find herself reluctantly accepting a legacy from her mentor's dying breath to become a leader to save Eorzea.
Yda's story is that her father was a member of the Ala Mhigan Resistance and when the Empire takes over and she's forced to hide, so she assumes a new alias and would find herself reluctantly accepting a legacy from her mentor's dying breath to become a leader to save Ala Mhigo.
And then in Shadowbringers we got a LITERAL replacement for Minfilia in the form of Ryne. Unlike Minfilia, she doesn't use her daggers a way to give you a fetch quest for materia, instead she uses them to fight, and she won't stand idly by while her friends are in pain, she always has to feel like she's involved or otherwise she feels useless. Yet again a rewrite of Minfilia...
I don't necessarily hate Minfilia, but I think the writers do. The fact that every expansion (except Endwalker so far) has a character who one-ups Minfilia and insults her is just hilarious to me.
I never felt Tataru was a replacement for Minfillia but I see what you mean with her role.
I agree. They never care that she died. Everybody else gets a sad moment when they die except her. The game just shrugs.
... Thats not what happened. Minfilia didnt die or cease to be when she became the Word of the Mother. If that had been the case, she could've never separated herself from Haydaelyn to save the First. That was only possible because she was her own person. As for the Scions... thats not what they said, either: they deeply respected Minfilia and didnt see that anyone could fill the role as she did. As for the devs: they made her a goddess in a sense... and you call that "hate"?? Myeah, sure.
One of the reasons I don't really get on board with all the Ishikawa praise, despite being aware other writers were involved in post ARR(Moenbryda) , post-HW (Papalymo) or STB(Lyse) and all that. I do get the story is very emotinally resonative, but some characters are treated very poorly by the plot, while others (Nanamo, Y'shtola,G'raha, Gaius, Estinien,Urianger) get to make it back and get screentime and even cheat death (in one case,reveting their unmaking more than once!).
Imagine if she was able to train as a Dancer. Like her mother figure is, heck isn't she mentioned in the dancer questline?
I def feel you on the damseling of an otherwise good character :'( I enjoyed her character throughout ARR, but felt like I was waiting for her to really show her power someday, and the only payoff I really got was during the Warrior of Darkness arc between ARR/HSW and then by the end of SHB. She really was done dirty v.v
I can understand why 1st Minfilia needed to be saved (she is a literal child, fighting against adults and uh. ya know. Ranjit) so i think that point suffers because of the pattern from before, of Minfilia needing to be saved at every turn prior
I was fine with her being weak, because it provided character development for the Scions and especially Thancred. What I couldn't stand was her calling me back to the Waking Sands again...and again...and again....
Pray, return to the Waking Sands. - Minfilia Ward (All of ARR)
@@Ragnarok182 still gives me nightmares lol
Her weakness held the Scions back. Notice how in heavensward and beyond the Scions became way more effective of dealing with problems and saving the world.
Pray return to the waking Sands, we found another settlement in need of help. -Minfillia Garvey, Antecedent of the Minutemen
A year later im here to remind you What is a link pearl XD
The moment when Hydalyn tells her to stay behind under the palace is extra dirty because, as the story prior has stated, both you and Minfilia's heard NOTHING from her post Praetorium, where she used so much of her power to protect you from Ultima and stripping the power of the primals from it, even supercharging the Warrior of Light to grant their first T3 Limit Break (or let's be honest, your DPS in the party). This silence lasts through all the post-ARR storyline and at least for the WoL all the way into Heavensward, and yet the only peep we get is a message for Minfilia to... stay behind? The non-combat political leader? Seriously Hydalin what the heck?
I don't consider her losses to the Acians as a real L. Had any of the 14 got truly annoyed with the WoL during ARR content, they would have rag-dolled us if it pleased them.
I think the worst thing about Minfillia seemingly constantly getting kidnapped is the WAY it happened when it happened the second time. If I recall, the Ascian was after Louisiox's staff and Minfillia was kidnapped by proxy because she wouldn't LET GO of it. Like...noncombatant or not, if you're going to put up that kind of dogged resistance with an artifact in your hands you may as well at least *try* to use it. She's not a fighter, she can fail, but I think putting up some actual resistance and being bested would have looked ten times better with the same result.
Oooh so this wasn’t about her outfit. I do like her, she always came across as the strong pillar of hope. Someone that people were willing to unite and work together, like you said.
While at first I was frustrated at how every foe basically b*tchslapped her at every opportunity, it wasn't until I kept playing the game more and more that I understood that she was a fighter, not of the sword and tome type, but the charismatic type. We now take for granted the connections the Scions have with the starter zone cities, but it was thanks to her efforts that we are able to call upon the city states for aid or request special access to places normally off limits
well who the fuck wants to admire a bureaucrat?
Some kind of bodyguards or other precautions in her HQ would have at least make her looked better prepared then she actually was. But yeah... when I played the story it didn't even occur to me that much.
Ryne felt like one big apology for ARR Minfilia. Despite her age, Ryne can actually fight, never beckons the WoL to an inconvenient location, and always pulls her weight on the field to the point of being willing to take the lead if necessary
Minfilia is really a power house behind the desk kind of person. Which can work one of my all time fav characters Lelouch from Code Geass does not belong on the front line without major help from his Knights and custom made giant robots. Minfilia did so much off screen for us but cause of the nature of the game we don't get to see that. But it was nice to see a version of Princess Peach that is being pushed aside for more then looks. Though thinking of how much the Scions should credit her does remind me of one of themany reasons I don't like tataru is she did not name her ugly ass airship The Minfilia. Lead to an inside joke of her having stolen the ship and was too cheap to buy paint to write over the name of it.
Okay sure minfilia might not been written great but she's a good character but I kind of wish her role as the leader of the Saiyans would have been more active try to fight back then being passive and being captured a lot but that's before she reincarnated into the first which for that minfilia is completely different to The Source One but I guess they have some similarities
female saiyans are op. they will obliterate almost everyone in this universe.
Vegeta would like a word with you
Saiyans
She was the leader of the Saiyans but the writers never let her face Freiza. Smh.
Perhaps Minfilia's character was intended to give some truth to Gaius's speech in the Praetoreum, that leaders need to be personally strong, not just politically strong. We see Minfilia as the politically strong leader, but her personal weakness leads her to getting defeated time and again. However, once the WoL becomes something of the defacto leader, their personal strength allows the Scions to step into the light and spearhead more positive change than the group ever did before. Gaius had a point, he was just championing the wrong cause.
I could do an entire video on Gaius' speech, and you're not wrong. He had a point.
I remember hearing Gaius' speech and thinking on it after he said his final words. It rung a strange cord with me, so much so that I couldn't ever see my character worshiping The Twelve ever again. Future expansions and encounters only solidified this for me.
And then Gaius becomes a good guy
It is pretty funny that Gaius could have been a person who helped the Scions if he was not utterly dedicated to the cause of glorifying Garlemald and then he allies with them anyways. And he also pretty much lays out the central thesis of FFXIV in the process.
What is this? I thought I was the only one who thought she was done dirty. Everyone else seems to dislike her for being "useless".
It's a shame really.
I think the most telling part of why minfilia was the head of the scions is brought up during the post heavensward story, when the scions are all back together, and alphinaud suggests electing a new leader, and I believe it's papalymo who says that nobody there is suited to be a leader as nobody there wants to be handicapped in such a way. she's got a leaders soul, she has the power to unite people to a cause, and the will to keep everyone aligned just so
Pray return to the waking sands
It was fine the first time. HOWEVER! After that first abduction by Livia she should have taken some form of combat training. Hell, even Tataru, the literal smallest of the Scions save Papalymo, and a Lala!WoL at least tried to find someway to contribute to the safety of Minfillia.
I think a big problem with Minfilia was that she was "written out" in ARR when the story was... not that good. The individual scions benefitted from being fleshed out in the expansions while Minfilia were more fleshed out by her absence than presence.
While Minfilia is a paragon of Eorzea the problem is that the game tells the player she is, but doesnt sufficently show us that she is. Its luke when someone tries to write a really intelligent character, but are unable to make them act intelligent in the story (Marvels mr Fantastic from Fantastic Four is a good example of this, often being written reeeeally stupid despite being one of the smartest humans in Marvel comics)
Yeah doesn't help that she only has a constant presence in ARR.. the game they had to make in like 2 years, and being the intro all the scions act more distant to us than they do now. Heck, even cid had more connection to the WoL than like papalymo or urianger. Minphilia was our important but nor combat gifted leader that we had to save . And then hydaelyn plucks her and she disappears for a while lol.
So i guess fusing her with Hydaelyn was indeed interesting, as well as the minfilias of the first, but that's now completely a different role
I could have sworn that Minfilia fights in the "Escape from Castrum Centri" quests.... but went back and checked and saw that no... you can't even untie her before the battle is over. She has no way to contribute to her own rescue.
She's helpless for the sake of the plot, which is unfortunate.
@@SynodicScribe at that point, it's not even for the sake of the plot since other scions are also tied up with her, except you can free them in the fight and they contribute to helping you fight back the Imperials. Uriangier is one of the people tied up alongside Minfilia, and once freed, he plays like an Arcanist, summoning a carbuncle and everything. I don't think it would have weakened the plot to let Minfilia pull out her sword and fight back once untied. If anything, that would strengthen her character to show she's capable of fighting back, but chose not to earlier in order to keep everyone else safe.
please do Lyse next
Pssst.
Don't trust Belka bro.
2nd the Lyse suggestion, she'd be cool to take an in-depth look at.
Oh god Lyse! We'll be here all night.
@@SynodicScribe Bruh, I'm here for it. Lore rocks.
- signed by a dumb MNK main 🙃
Anyways tbh i felt more bad for Noraxia i think that was the Sylph's name,i felt more bad for that poor little Sylph that got deaded,by the Garleans,i wish Minfilia could have done something there to save the poor lil Sylph,but she just said "No!" in a very lazy way... TT v TT That part hurt me!,bruh poor lil leafy thing!... TT v TT
First time you fight with mini minfilia, my thought was, well she's already better than adult minfilia. Both fighting wise and personality wise. I found it hard to be sentimental over adult minfilia.
that's a really good way to put it. poor lass got shafted by the writers.
though I'll be honest, I wouldn't lump minfillia from first in with her. she only shares the name. none of the experience and little of the personality of old minfillia.
getting captured because of a naive mistake of sneaking away makes sense for her. she's just some child with some combat abilities.
I couldn't take her seriously cuz her silly outfit didn't match. She could actually fight in the 1st cuz she had better glam~ that's just as important as a strong weapon.
I guess Minfilia is the "Princess Peach" of FF14!... XDDDDDDD
to be fair with the shadowbringers expansion that was a completely different character who was just called Minfillia at that time.
its a proven fact that smart people can do dumb shit, being smart and resourceful isnt a guarantee they will always use that intelligence or resourcefulness in every situation. also you cant judge first minfilia by the standard of source minfilia... >.>
Minfilia is actually CRITICAL to the story, and a HUGELY important character..... but that's all covered in 1.0.....
It's the devs' fault for not explaining it to the new players. What I'm most angry at is the entire ARR-only and later playerbase
[who had ZERO knowledge of who she really was or what she'd done] memeing on her until they LITERALLY got her written out
with their bitching.
Not every female character needs to be a Hashtag-girlboss with combat skills. She - one person - changed the world - and multiple worlds - more
than anyone outside of the WoL and the Ascians. By being who she was/is.
I will at least note that she did one thing of note. After being captured at Castrum Centri, she immediately got into gear and prepared for the battle against Gaius by asking Krile to prepare the needed stuff. That is it. That was her administrative shining moment. Fittingly, it is only at the end of ARR - the time where she was the most realized as a necessary non-fighter administrator.
Pfft, she’s been done dirty. She’s just about the only other person we know about during ARR yet she didn’t even TRY to learn how to fight.
The only other person who can resist Tempering- the thing that makes the WoL so unique and she doesn’t USE it. Instead she dumps the task of killing primals to the WoL.
The rest of my problems with her are outlined in this video. Bear in mind I’m just about to start Stormblood and stopped watching before spoilers for me.
But yeah she’s just a helpless weak stupid damsel in distress.
Menphilia in the First actually acts alongside you and the other a lot more.
I would've felt her departure has much more honored and worthwhile had she not been reduced do sacrifical damsel. Making a magical girl switch-transition to enhance the split with Ryne so that Ascila can spend time with us in a new, dancer design(postergirl for the class and using F'Lhaminn's legacy) and the decision to let go and have Ryne be her own person is more heartwrenching. I do feel happy G'Raha has a second chance, but it always makes me bitter that he was able to 'let history be rewritten' - as he said - and make it back to the Source as a party member...whereas she could not. I understand her mirroring Big L's martyrdom to avert another catastrophic event, but this is the same game and expansion where not only Y'shtola had her second comeback from death, Gaius was revealed not dead, Estinien gets to officialy join, but G'Raha is even given reality space-time altering second chance. Ascila's second chance is gifted to Ryne...who is not her, and also stays back in another shard, so little comes out of it. And the new Hrothgirl echoes, in that same sense, the feeling of 'this could've been Moen; or she could've sacrificed herself at UT and we'd have a relevant death every expansion all the while having all that mourning by her parents'. I felt the beauty of EW's finale, but more than remembrance, I felt they were missing due to poor plot writing. So many had much more right to be there than other characters.
She was a manager and it's a managers job to manage a team - often from afar. I have not worked in many places where a manager will roll up their sleeves and pull an 18hr shift while sweating right next to you but some of the best places I have worked have been the best because of great managers who care about their collegues. In Minfillias case she was a manager but was summoned to head office by the CEO and we all get to see her at her new role there before we move on to other things. None of this would have happened if HR, sorry I mean the Ascians could take an L on the chin.
I am just happy the 'adult women in young girls body' thing isn't as creepy as it could be.
Especially coming from storm blood in which you captured a female POW who lost her memory and identifies and acts like a little girl, only for 'the good guys' to assign her to serve as maid? to an old ass man who say 'you are so beatiful' to her face.
To be fair, Neb is still an Ascian. Low tier, but still able to dance around just about everyone else on the planet or just about. So that example is kinda justified, but not excusable. Personally I feel the raid on the sahaguin would be a better example of her d.i.d syndrome where she has to be protected from warriors the wol and the rest of the scions, with one exception, can go through with little issue.
That aside, I wouldn't mind a video about our long spoken friend Urianger.
Considering OG Miniflia's only real training is as a Miner, it's possible she didn't know how to use Tupsimati in any way
Why every character should be good at combat?
Minfilia is more like a football manager of Scions team. And she's a great one!
So great, she offed herself. XD
if anyone is familiar with Journey to the west, Minfilia is Tang Sanzang of FF14
omg she really is! I guess that makes the WoL her Sun Wukong.
Thank you! I love the story and lore, but never understood why we should care about or hold up Minfilia. She was just never given more of a chance than the tired damzel in distress trope.
I think you are placing too much emphasis on martial prowess to avoid being a weak character, a mistake that Hollywood unfortunately seems to agree with.
Minfilia isn’t weak or done dirty because she can’t fight, in fact we need more damsels in distress, I believe.
She was strong of character, strong in principles, she was feminine and not ashamed of it, she was an expert in organization and networking seeing as it is her word that gives us retainers, AND she became someone the Scions aspired to be in some capacity. Whether she was their hope, their inspiration, their confidant or even their sister/mother figure, she was someone everyone in the Scions had some aspirations they looked up to.
Her inability to fight does not make her weak or disrespects her. It shows how much her influence is so that those who could fight would put themselves between her and her enemies without pay or reward.
If we are truly suppose to be her successor then Emet Selch missed the memo and kidnapped G'Raha instead of us.
Synodic: Hold on, before you call me misogynistic.
FFXIV Fandom since 2.0: No need, we've always meme'd on her.
Me who joined during 4.x: ...I was hoping for the best.
I don't think she's a damsel in distress - yes, she often needs to be rescued, but the damsel trope is about characters who only exist to be rescued by the hero. I don't think she's a bad character because she doesn't excel at violence. The story tells us that she's an important leader, but unlike Alphinaud later on she doesn't really bring people together or make tactical decisions. I think that's the real flaw in her writing, not that she sometimes gets captured or that she's not a fighter.
For me she became the "Princes Peach" of FFXIV
*SPOILERS* --- Ryne only turned into a badass after Minfilia gave up her powers to the bean and returned to the lifestream.
I think you said a lot well. I liked Minfilia for what she was supposed to be. And not so much for what she actually was. She was presumably very educated but balanced that with her instincts and genuine wholeheartedness. Many things did her a disservice including the voice acting, using her as a mechanic to progress the story, constant unwanted visits in her office from the enemy...
And are we ever going to get to use that trap door in the office of the Rising Stones?!
Honestly ever since they put Unukalhai in the office of the Rising Stones we've mostly stopped using it. I assume because it wouldn't make sense if he were to disappear and then reappear between cutscenes.
Honestly ever since they put Unukalhai in the office of the Rising Stones we've mostly stopped using it. I assume because it wouldn't make sense if he were to disappear and then reappear between cutscenes.
Honestly ever since they put Unukalhai in the office of the Rising Stones we've mostly stopped using it. I assume because it wouldn't make sense if he were to disappear and then reappear between cutscenes.
Awe c'mon now, what is so wrong about having to save a damsel in distress in a Fantasy Game, it's a tradition! 😂
Ok, to be fair for her reincarnation, she kinda got spawn camped, got rescued by Thancred, *then* got captured again.
But yea, aside from all the things she supposedly did off screen, you could have easily just had Tataru as the leader of the Scions like she eventually ended up being. They could have kept Minfillia as a love interest for either Thancred before Urianger "beckoned unto his compatriot to partake upon the utmost academic of inquiries to that which lie twixt hills bookended with not more than two t's" or your character until you Game Stop trade her in for a cat boy.
I've joined other fans in dubbing her "Useless Leader"
Funny enough when she appears in other games shes a paladin with no shield
ARR/2.0 writing is just kind of a wash. Didn't they have something like less than a year to draft and finalize the entire script? I always figured that was why the characterization for most characters felt so barren and paint-by-numbers. Tataru and Krile come off as more accomplished managers/administrators of the Scions -- they recruit the B Team Scions after the Crystal Braves, establish the Rising Stones, setup a whole worldwide intelligence service off-camera with the help of Riol, strongarm Estinien into joining, and manage all anti-primal operations in Eorzea by themselves with the B Team while the Archons are on the First.
Go unstoppable lala duo! 😂 they literally bullied Estinien into helping (I’m not just saying that, one of the side stories on the lodestone literally talks about how they managed it)
I think it's important to note that Minfilia did not make the decision to stall the 8th umbral calamity. Hydaelyn did in Minfilia's body. Minfilia, at least of the time in heavensward, is very, very fucking dead. You do not speak to her again after the tunnel. I believe this was retconned in Shadowbringers because it makes a better story if Minfilia is actually there, not just the voice of hydaelyn.
Honestly, Minfilia being weak isn't what I disliked about her. She's not a combatant. She's a manager, an administrator. It makes sense that she'd fold like a house of cards if anyone so much as coughed in her general direction. She doesn't need to be powerful.
Where I will differ from you is, honestly, I will whole heartedly say Minfilia is a god awful character and her importance in the story only adds to my frustration with her, because clearly they had something in mind with her. At least contextual of ARR (apparently 1.0 is better about it, but some people disagree on this?), Minfilia is entirely a "Tell don't show" character. We never see her do... Anything. She never built anything, she never diplomatically negotiated something. Hell, her noble sacrifice to the garleans didn't even work because they then proceeded to slaughter the waking sands in a massacre that you have to clean up. All her attempts at diplomacy end in failure, all her attempts to negotiate leave us worse off for it, and all the big diplomatic swings are handled by Alphinaud, and even then it's technically handled by us, and Alphinaud just claims the credit for it.
Yet despite all of this, despite everything that she shows us, we are simply expected to believe that Minfilia is somehow this deeply inspirational figure, great leader of men, and master diplomat. What an absolute joke.
I like to think of Minfilia as a politician hanging around with military long enough to start believing she's also a capable combatant. She simply was a civilian administrator of a paramilitary.
And props to Minfilia; while the Scions were organized, she was necessary for the Scions to do what they do in Eorzea. It’s just that the story makes her look like crumbling scaffolding.
You don't have to add an apology at the beginning. She is completely helpless and useless. It's not misogynistic to point out a factual truth.
Ryne is everything that Minfillia wasn't. Good.
I am indifferent about her, shes just a mouth peace but at least not obnoxious. Mind you, I'm a fan of Orihime who is not combatant but a healer and emotional encouragement. I just didnt feel like she did much physically and Alphinaud was alot more of a diplomat to overshadow her
So basically she's just princess peach.
I feel like the ffxiv writing team dropped the ball on a lot of female characters until ishikawa stepped in
I guess it can't be helped in an MMO/fantasy adventure for a character's battle prowess to be valued above all. But it never really made sense to me that Minfilia would be derided so much specifically for being a non-combatant.
A few high-profile MSQ streamers tore into her for not having a flashy butt-kicking scene. Even this video contrasts her being "smart, tactful, and charismatic" with being "weak and helpless" as though there's an inherent contradiction. I guess in a setting with powerful mages, it's not uncommon to see people with high mental stats also sporting powerful spells, but I don't think that would be a given in the setting.
Nonetheless, after ARR we don't see figureheads who can't kick at least a little butt, and I suspect fan reception of Minfilia had something to do with that. I'm kinda surprised Nanamo hasn't become a BLM yet.
Unfortunately, when the political leaders of different countries are seen on the front lines during conflict, and she's surrounded by people who have fought would be gods. Being the leader of a task force that needs constant saving makes her stick out like a sore thumb.
Where do I get that massive decorative book???
Ah, Minfailia. The weakest of the Scion characters, in more ways than one. The potential was there, but I suppose she had to make way so our WoL can be the center of attention instead.
I always thought that she is probably be capable of taking out a common thug, but she certainly couldn’t take on anyone with any real training. And no I have no real evidence of this, but it seems likely.
Final fantasy brave exvius gave me false expectations of minfilia
That's fair. I actually played FF Brave Exvius before FFXIV as well, so that was also basically my first impression of the Scions! However, even in FFBE, Minfillia's Limit Burst involves her summoning the other Scions to "Pray Return to Beat Up This Enemy for Me!"
why do keep calling minfillia a figurehead just because she can't fight? fighting isn't like, a required skill of leadership. the scions have tons of fighters.
Because being helpless in an organization that constantly has a target on it's back, face and stomach is HILARIOUS.
I still think Minfilia was the weakest link in ARR's presentation. She was a high level bureaucrat that dispatched adventurers to solve problems because telling everyone else what to do was her superpower, and the echo seemed shoehorned in to support her being in charge bexause without it her appointment would seem totally arbitrary.
When she made The Sacrifice I could only roll my eyes, all the game ever showed me of her was her being useless. It's unfair because without her the Scions (which also seemed equally useless larpers) wouldnt exist and you the player might not've grown into a hero. Who knows.
And plenty of people came in with clutch victories and The Sacrifices of their own. That she came in with all the power she never implied she had to solve a problem the player was already fixing and who seemed to have magnitudes more ability than her, had to watch whule she kill-stole seemed like a tremendous insult.
Come shadowbringers the player learns Minfilia is more like the namr for a cosmic cycle of saviour-rebirth or something and her whole thing seemed contrived.
I didn't hate her, but i did question why she has no fighting skill whatsoever. Like... this line of work puts her at risk, as well- why *wouldn't* she take up a discipline? I mean, even Tataru made an attempt and she was in less danger due to her role within the scions.
And technically Tataru has a very unique type of arcanism, so she is legitimately not unskilled at battling if she tried, but she really does prefer social warfare and crafts and dominates in those. Minfilia is just an administrative person. Admittedly, she is an administrative person in a world that has countries like today, so she clears the way to make the Scions’ efforts go smoothly, but in the end she really was a damsel in distress, albeit a competent one that was good enough until the Crystal Braves crisis.
My guy: your fist 2 examples are literally things she couldn't do shit about even if she could fight and the 3rd is unfair. She has a staff but has never shown any aptitude or knowledge on casting spells. Like, do you also expect someone to know how to operate and launch an AA missile when the big bad Ascians pull up on them in their plot plane?
That's the entire point. She kept being put in the helpless damsel trope over and over. It was sad. lol
@@SynodicScribe Would've made me laugh to watch her swing a pickaxe at Elidibus. Like "Yes. My rusty copper pickaxe shall defeat this centuries old powerful being"
@@C4MG1RL I would have paid good money to see that.
Until 'Yda' unmasked herself as Lyse, Minfilia was my favourite waifu and I was utterly devastated finding out what had become of her after she stayed behind in ARR.
But yeah... I also wished that these situations could have served to gradually strengthen her. Every other Scion had some character development... they grew. I mean Thancred goes from Roguish Ladies' Man to Sad Daddy Gunbreaker Alphinaud goes from Arrogant, Spoiled Do-Gooder Princeling to a more humble, receptive individual without necessarily losing his idealistic streak. Urianger goes from Passive Book Nerd to playing a more active role... unfortunately he still talks like he's at a Society For Creative Anachronism event. 'Yda' goes from masquerading as her dead sister and living in the shadow of Papalymo to being a strong, charismatic leader and finally becomes her true self as Lyse.
Minfilia had no character development at all as herself. We only knew Ryne for a short amount of time, but she got so much more development than Minfilia... going from a stand-in for Minfilia to becoming her own person and even starting to build confidence and make friends. Her role also grew Thancred as a character as he was pretty much her father figure.
Being charismatic and able to bring people together has absolutely nothing to do with being good at combat. That Minfillia, the voice of Hydaelyn, is a constant target, especially for Ascians, is like… absolutely no surprise. I have seen three videos by you, tried to be open minded because I generally love listening to analyses of FF XIV… but seriously, you are the first youtuber that seems to always be way off the mark and using cherry picking to make points. Like claiming that Lyse was reckless about letting tempered into the castle, when EVERYONE else was just as surprised by the attack because - as you neglect to mention - no crystals were allowed inside. Or how you ignore the fact that Minfillia is a Miner, not a battle-class, and so on, and so forth. I cannot listen to any more of this… Thank goodness for the “don’t recommend this channel” option. 😵💫
I am female, and I don't think your analysis is misogynistic. I think Minfilia is written as a classic "damsel in distress" -- which is a misogynist trope.
At one point I was kind of screaming at the screen "Open up your linkshell so other people can hear what's going on there. You could disguise it as flipping your hair or something!"
Also, frankly, I think she likes the sound of her own voice a bit too much in ARR.
But let's face it, Tataru is smart, tactful, and has great soft skills. And her character is far better written. She gets to use her soft skills. She gets to try to learn to fight, and find her strengths by finding that she is a better administrator and spy, and that's vital.
By the end of the saga, most people probably have incredible respect for Tataru, and roll their eyes at the cardboard writing in Minfilia's case.
We never get the chance to see what Minfilia is doing. You could see her all the way to her role as a voice of Hydalen without appreciating her theoretical diplomatic ability or much else.
Her main job is to be the symbol of purity that you have to rescue over and over again, because not only is she not a fighter, but she displays no common sense in the face of danger.
It's not fair to Minfillia really. In an organization filled with members that are prepared to fight and die at a moments notice she's made to be this helpless damsel in almost every seen, and that doesn't feel fair.
No, I think you should make fun of her. Shes quite literally the most useless character. She got moenbryda killed because of how useless she is. I dont like her and anything that happened with her didnt phase me at all. Like yeah shes really nice but like. Oh. My. God. Shes the most damsel in distress of damsels in distress. Princess peach would destroy her in 2 seconds flat.
Also her VA is TERRIBLE. Literally I play monster prom with more emotion than her VA.
By the way I'm a woman dont call me sexist
She was secretly Ascian agent! She is tasked to to delay WOL's development by frequently demanding "pray return to walking sands".
TBH.. It was a poorly written character (drama queen) and unnecessary in story SE decided to get rid of her :3
She's more like a princess than the leader of a resistance. She has the same power as we do, but she can't fight for shit. How? We're far better fit as leader than Minfilia. *cue Senator Armstrong's theme*
Krile also has the echo but isn't a fighter, having the echo does not make you a good fighter, and it's not what makes a character good or not
@@Pleyway That doesn't excuse her being useless while all the people without the echo are doing the hard shit. Thancred can't even manipulate aether ffs. What does Minfilia do? Talk and get beaten like a dog.
Krile gets kidnapped. Tataru is more useful than both of them.
@@dolphinboi-playmonsterranc9668 She is far from useless, she is a leader and a diplomat, she is literally the reason the Scions worked as an organization and when she was gone it did not function nearly as well for a long time.
You don't have to be a fighter to be a strong or useful character.
And Krile literally went to Sharlyan to be their contact there and try and get them into Old Sharlyan.
So no, neither are useless.
Your channel would be perfect if you were polite to avoid the character hate.
Damn such a waste. Such an almost good channel. Was going to recommend but no way with those videos.
How are you gonna have a clickbait title then get mad if people react to the clickbait title lol
I think thats the point shes suppose to be weak, it makes sense to me, she knows she is shit at fighting so she trys not to fight, except in emotionally charged situations. Like plenty of non fighting characters like tataru are used this way. Minfilia probably wouldnt have even created the scions if she were stronger, shed probably just view it as putting her firends in unnecessary harm. She is there to help and support the warrior of light thats her purpose and she knows it.
This video was really interesting to listen to, because I genuinely think she's a poorly written character and never liked her, yet your criticisms of her don't really come off as addressing and actual _problems_ with her.
All you really said was that she was a damsel in distress, which is really just a trope that can be done well or poorly depending on the writer handling it.
In fact, despite me thinking she was badly written, I'd actually _defend_ her from the criticisms you made.
She held an administrative, diplomatic, and political position within the Scions. That's why she was the leader, because she was, ostensibly, the best person to represent them to other groups and factions while managing their goals and resources.
_Of course_ she gets defeated whenever anyone of any physical or magical might attacks her. She's a manager. The Scion CEO. She has a literal desk job. She is a non-combatant. I would criticize her even more if she won any fights because she'd have no business winning them.
Nonono, the reasons she's poorly written are due to borderline nonexistent character development, and the plot telling us how charismatic and competent she is while all the events of the game we see her in show her as very poorly spoken, whiny, and stupid.
Hell, the scene you showed of her getting thumped by Elidibus? I have a problem with that scene that has nothing to do with her being a "damsel."
This game _tells_ us she's smart, competent, and level headed.
This game then _shows_ us she's an absolute moron who runs at Ascians with no plan or weapons or... reason to run at them? Why the fuck did she do that? She could have done nothing and Elidibus would have left, if I'm remembering the scene right.
The fact she lost that encounter is good writing because it's consistent with the power levels between the two characters.
The scene overall and the fact the encounter even happened is BAD writing because THERE WAS NO REASON for Minfillia to do something that stupid.
ARR is full of this character everybody lauds and respects constantly proving her gross incompetence every step of the way, while giving the WoL grating, person whine-time cutscenes in her office where she shows just how weak willed and pathetic she is. Damn near everything she complains about is something other characters shoulder without having breakdowns every week. Yeah, she has a stressful job and a rough past but god damn, you're wasting the _eikon slayer's_ time moaning about how you lack confidence, and aren't sure you're always making the best choices and how hard it is to be you.
I dunno man, I don't get why people like her. I literally forgot about her and moved on by the time I got into HW.
Even the idea she was the linchpin is kind of funny to think about when the WoL immediately takes that role after her death and does it better.
I know "lol Minfilia is useless" is kind of a meme and a simplification, but it's kinda true. I only learned it was a common saying recently, because I was saying it as I was catching up on MSQ without any knowledge of what people thought or any spoilers. She really is just a poorly written and presented character.
i dunno minfilia is by far the worst character in ffxiv
More useless than Princess Peach
She is a weak and bad character.
I was fine with her being weak for what she was in that all the rest of the Saiyans are capable in combat and she's not which makes sense why she's the person who stays at the home base and relays the orders to all the people who can actually fight