Abandoned Section of the Old PE Red Car Line
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2011
- To follow along on Google Maps, paste 34.097869,-118.253553 to see where I started. This was a trip to investigate a section of abandoned right-of-way once used by the Pacific Electrics Red Car trolley system in Los Angeles. After doing some research, I'll modify my original statement about the shut down of the Red Car system, which General Motors had somewhat of a role in making happen. A bigger problem was how tycoon Samuel Huntington used the Red Car to connect downtown to all his various development properties resulting in the suburban sprawl that Los Angeles is famous (or infamous depending) for and a light rail system that collapsed under its own weight, exacerbated by competition from motor vehicles starting in the 20's.
Авто/Мото
In England cuts are called 'cuttings' The film is 'Who killed Roger Rabbit' Great film. I love this kind of local investigation of a locality's history, finding small clues and recording things that most people probably don't give a second thought to. For a phone the quality is great. I was really happy to see the old photos, too. Much enjoyed, thanks.
Fredrick,
Thank you for taking the time to create this great film of what’s left of PE’s Glendale/Burbank ROW.
When I moved to LA from Chicago back in ’79, I flipped when I discovered that there was no rail transit system to speak of. I was immediately appalled when I found out what once was…
Thanks again for the nice trip!
You're welcome. The Metro can get you around, somewhat...
I like the effort you went through to follow an old section of the Red Cars. Now what I would like to see you produce is a multiple episode of the different lines the red and yellow cars traveled using a drone. Start by showing the area enlarged of the original map you'll be following for each episode. The drone will allow you to go over and around any obstacles that have been built along the old red car track path. The time I rode it I was around 9 years old and until recently I always was curious as to what the history and story of the Pacific Red .Cars was. Thanks to these RUclips videos I'm no longer missing that bit of So Cal public transportation system history. I now live in the Bay Area where BART is a major asset to getting around here.
That's a pretty good idea although I don't live in Los Angeles any more and it would require significantly upgrading my PC and getting much better editing software.
Interesting video, I enjoy retracing old right of ways when time permits.
Thanks for posting. I think I was on this trail and had no idea it used to be a trolley line!!
Thanks, I've been finding the remains of the system all around the city.
After viewing videos of the 4 light rail lines LA has installed in the past 30 years, I have to admit I'm impressed. They look well maintained and are fast.
@Craig F. Thompson The blue line opened in 1990 and the red and purple line heavy rail subway opened in 1993. The green line that runs on the freeway opened in 1995 and the gold line that travels to Pasadena opened in 2003. The expo line opened between 2012 and 2016
The Regional Connector subway that is under construction will open in 2022 and will connect the expo, blue, and gold lines together.
dude, that is an AWESOME video - even with the shakiness of the bicycle ride, it's still fantastic! I had no idea any part of LA, like that, even still existed, thanks for sharing!
It's a shame the Pacific Electric was dismantled--that part of LA in your video looks very nice. It would have been a pleasant trolley ride.
Los Angeles should consider using this same route and put modern trains and tracks in the area.
There's an often untold first half of the story of the Red Car line. Huntington basically built it to connect outlying tracts of real estate he already owned. So, the suburban sprawl that is Greater Los Angeles today, with the commuting demands this imposes on many is a result of this. By 1926-27 when the GM/Standard Oil/Firestone (and others) backed NCL started moving in, it was acquiring assets long neglected, in woeful need of updating. I personally believe the city would be better off today had that bullet been bitten back then, necessary rights of way acquired for later expansions, but it was in private hands. The truth of the matter is that Huntington never intended or expected to see much of a return on the rail line itself: it was a means to bigger ends.
When you walked up the stairs for years I have wanting to take a metal detector and just explore the area with it and I hope to be surprised. When you were at the river bridging you can see little out crops. That is where the posts were located for the power lines. Can you imagine riding over that with the river at high flow? The tracks on Brand Blvd, in downtown Glendale are under the islands in the center of the street. I remember seeing a Yellow car driving on that street.
My nephew always said this neighborhood smelled a little railroady.
I once had a yard customer who had been a motorman on the Santa Monica Air Line. He told me that automobiles crowded the Red Cars out--speed on that line was brought down to about 13 mph. (The new Expo Line has, thankfully, opened to take the place of the abandoned Santa Monica Air Line.)
@Craig F. Thompson The city of Los Angeles was stupid for getting rid of the original Pacific Electric Red cars and LARy Yellow cars.
@Craig F. Thompson The tunnel under the Subway Terminal Building in downtown Los Angeles on 4th & Hill Street was sliced in half when the Bonaventure Hotel was being constructed back in 1967. That original subway should have been preserved, modernized, and used again but LA was very foolish to destroy it for some fancy building.
Over the years LA suffered congestion, traffic, and pollution and as result they had to build the blue line light rail and the red line heavy rail subway between the 1980's and the early 1990's.
@Craig F. Thompson I wish that Los Angeles would have never built the Bonaventure Hotel and left the tunnel as it was and put some modern trains back in there. We would not have all of this traffic and congestion but rich people are very greedy and stupid. It makes me so angry when I think about this foolishness. I hate greedy people.
No, there was no conspiracy on the part of General Motors or whatever. Pacific Electric was losing money 10 years after it was started. Its sole purpose was to bring homeowners to the properties owned by Henry Huntington, the PE's original owner. The Red Cars were expensive to operate and keep up. Believe me, Henry Huntington was no altruist. He was already filthy rich and he wanted to get filthy richer. Just take a trip town to the Huntington Library to see how this guy lived. It's incredible. The Southern Pacific who later bought the PE in1911 were plagued by high costs and automobile traffic which slowed down the Red Cars. Any attempt to detour around these problems was thwarted by the LA City Council who resented Southern Pacific's reputation from medddling in politics. No conspiracy, just too expensive.
I agree somewhat. General Motors should not be considered a car manufacturer in a strict sense since it was a creation of certain powerful Wall Street institutions that have often played a detrimental role in shaping economic policy in this country. Not just in Los Angeles, but other light rail systems in other cities went through takeovers and dismantling.
On the profitability issue, California's State Railroad Commission (later their Public Utilities Commission) recognized the virtual monopoly that PE held after the 1911 "Great Merger." All streetcar lines in Southern Cal were merged, except for LARy and the Glendale and Montrose. The SRC/PUC was extremely reluctant to approve fare increases, so even as costs increased and track and equipment began to need replacement, fares barely increased over the years. Hence, after the Great Merger, the PE only made a profit in the late 1920s and during WWII and hemorrhaged money the rest of the time.
@Craig F. Thompson Never think of General Motors as simply a vehicle manufacturer but rather an adjunct of the increasing dominance of Wall Street (Morgan in particular) and through them, the British Empire. It's no secret that Churchill was desperate to extend WW2 as long as possible so no surprise on that point.
@@AbandonedMaine Los Angeles should consider using this same right of way and put modern light rails there.
Being an L A historic trolly fan, this was a most interesting share, I once did this same exact kind of exploration for the old Mont Lowe Railway up in the mountains behind Altadena, walked the entire abandoned route
OK, my little hike here looks much easier in comparison! I went by where the car barn was in Altadena and checked out the base of the mountain but never had the time to hike that.
Funny, i visited that location the first portion. It was a bit scary and different now. Dude you were brave. There must be some people even as kids who remembers that ride.
Cool video! Had a friend that lived on India Street above the right-of-way. There was a staircase that went from India Street to the right-of-way, was like abit of country in the city.
thank you for the excellent video I never even knew there was a bridge there I've been back and forth past that area a million times and I used to live in Southern California and I don't never knew there was a bridge there next time I'm down there I'm going to check it out thanks for the great video send the tips
I followed along with your video on one side and Google Maps on the other side.
@andrewnorris2 Thanks Andrew, glad you liked it. I had to fight the poorly programed Linux video editor to get it to do much of anything good.
If you ever plan to do a reshoot you might try drone technology to do it that way it would be a lot cleaner
I would also need to upgrade my computer and editing software. All in all that would be quite an investment for almost no return beyond nicer looking video. I was in such bad shape that I even had to use a Linux video editor for this which barely worked.
They were all torn up. In some of the outlying areas, you can still see remnants of bridges for example. You can still see some remaining Southern Pacific RR track if you head down Alameda St.
Fredrick Laverdiere yeah I know right if you go from Union Station To Alameda and Slauson all you see is railroad tracks on the floor and railroad crossings that don’t work and it will cost money to remove the tracks so that’s why it’s still there 😂
@@metrorailinlosangelesprodu4407 Why don't they reuse those railroad tracks?? What is wrong with the city of Los Angeles man??
Red Cars (PE) and Yellow Cars (LARY) existed. Never referred to as red line or yellow line.
@Craig F. Thompson Yes! That is correct. The LARY were the yellow street car and the Pacific Electric were the Red cars.
@ockteby Good idea Frank. Wonder if there's a way to use keyframes to have Google Earth "follow" your progress?? That would work if you had one of those dual monitor setups.
@rsquirl Thanks. Is there something similar for the Android which is what I'm using?
thanks!
Awesome
thank you
You're welcome.
Whoops!
That's what it is.
He doesn't even know what a rail spike looks like. LOL
I greatly enjoyed your trek on the former Glendale line, as I lived in the area 1968-72. However, at 10:45, you dated an old photo as 1927, but I would say it was 1937-55, because of the PCC-type car used. As for the National CIty Lines case, it did not involve Pacific Electric, which in 1911 became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Southern Pacific Railiroad, which found after 1927 that PE's passenger service was a hopeless money-loser, and sought to drop it. Read Spencer Crump's book RIDE THE BIG RED CARS, or see the Electric Railway Hist Assn's website erha.org. Also see Beth Lorraine Tillitson's thesis, 'Falling from Favor,' written at Cal State Univ, San Bernardino in 1997. By way of comparison, San Francisco in the 20s/30s had 2 transit companies: Market St Railway (private), and SF Muni Railway (an arm of the city govt). Market St Ry went bankrupt in 1944 and was acquired by Muni. Both companies in the 30s, 40s & 50s converted many streetcar lines to buses to save money. Nat CIty Lines wasnt involved at all.
By the way, the Elec Ry Hist Assn holds meetings at 7pm, on the 3rd Fri of each month, at the South Pasadena Public Library, 1055 El Centro St (S side, bet Diamond & Fairview Ave). Ride the GOLD line to S Pas, exit to El Centro, walk 2 blocks East. Do join us!
Whoops, good catch on the dating of the black and white photo. There's examples of the older style trolley cars.
@@yorkmanlowe8009 Good to know! I will definitely make it down to a meeting soon.
Jose Rendon, Since I live near SF, I attend very few meetings of ERHA. My last meeting was probably 2014.
@Craig F. Thompson i live in N Calif, outside SF, so I attend ERHA meetings (held 3rd Fri of the month) only if Im in LA at the time. In May 2012, I attended, since I was in Pasadena for a college reunion and had spare time. That same weekend, a steam-powered (ATSF 3751) special train returned from an LA-Grand Canyon-LA trip that took several days. I think it was operated by the San Bernardino Historic Railroad Soc (which owns ATSF 3751), PRS, and Trains & Travel Tours (in Portola). I had volunteered to be a car host but was dropped from the roster, because poor ticket sales forced cancellation of some cars, SO, I went to the reunion instead. I did want to see it pass thru the LA area or pull into LA Union Station, but it was delayed so much that any travel in or near LA would have been after dark, not very photogenic. As I commented above, I think the last meeting I attended was in 2014. I've never attended a PRS meeting, nor am I a member. Im curious why S Calif doesnt have an NRHS chapter.
As automobile prices became affordable and maintaining the Electric right of ways became more costly. Each private rail lines were abandoned. Not much help from city Government tax money to keep these lines going. There is word that power station generators were deteriorating and very costly to maintain. The thought of buses replacing some of the right of ways became more popular. Passenger electric railways and streetcars were always operating in the red never made any money for upkeep. Only freight was profitable.
Any rail system depends on volume of traffic in order to be profitable. That's true for any railroad. If you're not generating enough profit to maintain the rolling stock and ROW, it'll get abandoned. The trouble with LA has always been the suburban sprawl which benefits real estate speculation but ultimately makes your society more inefficient.
Henry Huntington, not Samuel