Jaguar XJS racing in Australia began with the V12 engines run internally standard, with only external modifications. They were strong, reliable and competitive. Try that with your favourite family car. And in its production form, although very low, the XJS had a mass of about 1.75 tonnes. Much more mass than any competition both before and after race modifications. A good strong piece of gear. But, if you can't beat them, have them banned. Jealousy is the surest sign of weakness.
I remember that years race - it was when I could watch it all day - The different makes running round then - Robbie and his Volvo - this amazing sounding Jag :) The cars had a lot more personality back then - distinctive sounds - today I really cant tell one car apart from another ....its a fair dinkum yawn for someone who remembers the old races...thanks so much for this upload
I remember when there was no one about - me and some mates skateboarded down the esses onto conrod circa1985 it is one of the best tracks in the world for high cubic inch muscle cars...
They added the Caltex Chase for 1987 as the track was part of the World Touring Car championship round and Conrod exceeded the maximum length of the straights they would use. It also came a year after the death of Mike Bergmann at the second hump on Conrad. If you want to see some interesting driving have a look at Glenn Seton in a Nissan Skyline (not godzilla yet) in the 1987 race in the wet. Watch this clip - mainly from 1:50 onwards: ruclips.net/video/WdbJirJ1VOU/видео.html
Yep i saw Mike's TWR Jag tonight, and it's in really good condition! TWR added alot of custom components to those engines. He's also got a hold of a set of "Bathurst" cams :)
Love that Jag, I was on the mountain the day it won. It sounded AWSOME when going across the top at reid park and then as it went over skyline. The sound will live with me forever. Would love to see one of the new XKR spercharged JAG's in a 12 hour proddy race on the mountain.
Late reply here but yes, several still exist. Walkinshaw retained one, there is one in the heritage museum ( that may be TW's - not sure ) , there's another in New Zealand and one has just now been bought and brought back to Australia. ( I think by Mike Roddy in Melbourne if I remember rightly )
I believe it was car number 10, the winning Jag driven by John Goss that was left behind. I saw it on display later the following year. It still had the bugs on the front bumper and grill. 😅👍
watching this made me see how much the tracks changed in 25 years. only a bit of wall and armco back then. now the whole tracks got saftey rails, tyre barriers etc. makes you see just how safe motorsports become.
I agree re the Jag leather. My 1986 Sovereign's seat leather, which is original, still looks like new in most places, with just a few cracks forming in the driver's seat, even though that leather was not maintained as well as it should have been. Good strong stuff. A rub with Gliptone about twice per year, which is easy to do, seems to be the way to keep it in good condition.
Actually it didn't blow an oil pump. The third car had a little front end bingle on lap one, I think at hell's corner. The headlight glass broke and bits of busted glass went into the air intake and were ingested into the engine, which subsequently died.
@gcmc2: Opel pulled out of the upper class RWD category, so the VE Commodore to my knowledge was completey developed in Australia by Holden. Other GM brands now use the VE-base for some models, Vauxhall imports one of the HSV-models and sells it under the VX-R banner in the UK.
@armorgeddon Yes, I think you're right. GM in the US (obviously ) has high regard for the car and I think the story was that if it had come along a bit earlier it would have been a big chance to be used for a world large car platform. GM increasingly look to GMH Australia for technical and design work. They are that highly valued. The new retro Camaro was done by an Australian design team in the US. That may be one that might have used the VE platform.
The HE version of the V12, made from 1981, has its exhaust valves pocketed up inside the head, limiting potential for performance enhancement, so the earlier versions with flat face heads and combustion chambers in the pistons are the ones used for racing.
The best years for ATCC in my opinion too. I feel that maybe to bring a bit more variety and diverse competition to the series maybe ANY four door SEDAN with a V8 that is available for sale in Australia should be eligable to compete. And what do you know, you can make a comment without using profanity and attempting to insult others ;)
Not only the engine capacity, but more importantly the valve port area which determines how rapidly gas can move in and out of the engine. The Jaguar V12 has relatively short stroke of 70mm and relatively large cylinder diameter of 90mm, which with 12 cylinders mean overall large port area relative to displacement, even with only 2 valves per cylinder.
Yes, He and Mark Trenoweth up in Qld got a lot of TWR parts ( even parts from the Lemans cars ) When you say they added a lot of parts you are right but of course the major components are retained per group A regulations. In the sports cars they made custom cranks and even cylinder heads, titanium con rods etc. If you were at Mike's you probably saw the black and silver XJS sports sedan as well ? That is an incredible car that I sold him in a weak moment and I really regret it.
@shmcmillan Whenever it is suggested that other makes enter the series the plan has usually been for the cars to be built RWD as V8 supercars only. ( rather than making a homologation production run ) They did get as far as building a couple of RWD V8 Magnas in one of these schemes. The need for homologation specials has sort of gone now anyway with the similar platform and suspension layout. If it ever cane to pass any new cars would be built to the same spec.
Yes, the XJS is still a magnificent vehicle. Not viciously powerful but certainly fast, effortless, quiet, "smoothness of V12 beyond belief" as one magazine said. Still by far the best car I know for everything from slow city driving to long fast trips and everything in between.
@swampmarshy yeah, there was an XKR in the Nations Cup for a season, but that bloody supercharger caused a lot of heat problems. I remember watching the damn thing slow down as the heat built up. PAul Gentilozzi in the US raced an XK8 in the US in one of their production series and flogged everything, but he used a naturally aspirated engine. The latest Jag V8 is 5 litres and has stacks of power, so would easily clean up the Chev/Ford engined cars.
where did you pluck that figure from? speculation? Commentator hype? fastest radar speeds, 83 and 84 Goss's Group C was clocked at 286 not 296, 85 the Group A TWR jags were clocked at 275, in 86 Moffat was clocked in the 05 Commodore at 272. all these speeds were in practice/qualifying. fastest speeds in the race were 2-4kmh slower
Yes, much like the TC cortina and Chrysler Centura - they had much larger engines fitted than was ever intended for the chassis. The commodore certainly was a better result than than the others !
The first commodores were originaly opel reckords.However it should be noted that they were heavily re-engineered in australia as the opel fell apart during reliability trials in Australia.body reinforcements and completely new struts were among the changes.The engines (4,6and 8 cyl), gearboxes and differentials were all of australian design.Therefore the commodore was still Australian to a large degree.
@jarviss64 Ohh Yeah. Now that does sound like a great idea. Yes, you are very correct about the heat from the supercharger too. I seem to remember a team running an XKR in Nations cup, or GTP, or something (OK I'm not exactly sure) but they did seem to have a lot of probl;ems keeping the engine reliable. It always seemed to be dead on the side of whatever circuit they were on after half race distance.
And the Jaguar V12 has plenty of strength to handle the results of that good breathing ability, frequently taken to around 7500 RPM in race cars and in twin turbo form producing around 750 HP and driven hard across the Atlantic for many hours at a time in record breaking racing boats. One of the people who worked on the V12 at Jaguar has said that 8000 RPM is fine for a standard Jaguar V12. They are much stronger than the 6 cylinder Jaguar XK engines.
Fundamentally excellent design and construction, but being a Jag it has Lucas electrics and a small number of silly design faults that can cause problems and will if not rectified. But those things are well known and almost all easy to fix, contrary to popular opinion. And that popular opinion is why such basically good solid cars can be bought relatively cheaply.
HMMM ... Just like they limped to the ETTC winning more races than all others combined? Like they Limped home to win 2 SCCA chanpionships against the Porsches & B/B Corvettes. Like V12s limped home in the world Hydraplane boat championships where only the bell heicopter engined boats came with in 1km of them. B/B v8s were busy firing pushrods through their hulls. Walkinshaw miles ahead until oil cooler broke on S/bump. Dickson car sucked glass into engine. No limping done. STUDY young man
All commodores were opel/vauxhall right from the start at VB in 1978. That's why Brock was able to build that run of commodore coupes. He imported I think just the panels if I remember correctly from the 2 door opels. Even the VT commodore was based on opel ( the omega ) I expect the VE is on a GM world platform too but I'm not sure. That's just the way it's done these days. The small X type Jag for instance share its base platform with the ford mondeo.
With all due respect, and not detracting from the quality or price of cars you mention, the point here is that this V12 XJ-S got pole position (in 1985) and I'd say that the vehicle attained the speed and time it did largely due to it's engine capacity and the driver's sheer ability on the day.
very cool, my Mums cousin actually owned this car after it was retired from racing. I don't know if he still has it or not though. Good video, thanks for posting this..
@mikldude about 550 bhp for the Walkinshaw Jags. There was an XJS that ran at Bathurst and the ATCC (a red one) that was tuned to 750 bhp and was awesomely fasst, but was unreliable.
Yes, stupid suggestions that they were breaking down or limped home are nonsense. Walkinshaw car's oil cooler was holed and dumped its oil. Spent ages being repaired and still finished 3rd. The Dickson / Alam car was out very early. Car went into the back of Grice when he missed a gear and glass from broken headlight went into the engine via the air box. Why are people saying "what if" this or that ? Nothing came close on performance. Shnitzer BMW inherited 2nd after Walkinshaw's trouble.
not strictly correct, although not officially homologated with FISA/FIA a 'Group A XE 351 Falcon' was raced in New Zealand. In fact, DJ got pole position in it at Wellington in 1985 and briefly led the entire field until the gearbox broke imgur.com/pfL3262
Yes. Look at the junk semitrailing arm rear suspension that Holden proudly promoted as "independent rear suspension". Easy to spot, because of the obviously crooked rear wheels that do not point straight ahead, even worse with passengers in the rear. Not surprisingly, the Commodores that have that basically faulty arrangement wear their tres unevenly and prematurely.
I'd love some variety but then again, that would defeat the purpose of competition, unless you make everything fair by having a control power to weight ratio, downforce to drivetrain/grip ratio, fuel efficiency to aerodynamics ratio, etc but that would just become like the boring ford vs holden system of racing today.
@wingies777 i must admit, you did have your head screwed on right when you thought of ur username. sort of. should've been winger777, that would've been better.
My first car, a 1971 Triumph 2.5 PI with Lucas mechanical fuel injection, had such suspension, as did the vastly overrated BMWs built around that time and for many years later, including the 635CSi, all with twitchy handling at the limit of tyre adhesion, as would be expected from such a fundamentally unstable design. You would think that, after several decades of Jaguar producing its excellent double wishbone suspension, Holden could have done the same or something similar.
The problem with the supercharged Jag V8 is that at high revs it creates a huge amount of heat, which effectively destroys the advantage of the supercharger, and net output is lower than the naturally aspirated engine. They'd be better off building a naturally aspirated V8 to racing spec than stuffing around with the supercharged V8.
seriously...these were the best years to watch bathurst for me....having the competition of the different makes with volvos turbo and jag's made it a real great day to see ford and holden fight with these speedsters.....today i can hardly tell the diff between a ford and a holden...its like watching formula 3 where all have same make and speed....maybe skillful but boooorrring
Their biggest problem is rust, but careful choice of well maintained vehicle in good original condition, with application of Lanotec or similar, goes a long way to avoiding that one. Even if you find that you have bought a used Jag and it has significant rust in several places the purchase price plus the cost of body and other repairs will still be only a small proportion of the cost of a much newer and much inferior car.
Well in fact the trap speeds are not relevant for two reasons. A cornerstone of proper motorsport strategy is winning at the slowest possible speed. Secondly it makes no sense ( PR sense or any other kind ) for TWR to execute a cake walk & effectively destroy the race. It is just plain fact that the jags did win in '85 at a cruise. Walkinshaw & Heyer ran in the touring car race at the Macau GP a few months earlier and were hitting 291 kph on the relatively short straight.
@wingies777 LOL the holden was one of the best cars ever made in the ATCC and won multiple events. The bmw was one of the most "slaughtered" cars in ATCC..
The reason we dont see any other cars in the V8 Supercars is because they wont commit and wont change to RWD format.Remeber these ATCC races were based off cars that were sold here or able to imported by the dealers for sale. Toyota=Camry or Avalon FWD,wont commit to RWD, Lexus=cant be bothered although they have the RWD already here, I can name 20 other car makers that could join and probably wouldnt because they cant be bothered,our racing is based off RWD cars and not Euro FWD pls.
The only reason for close racing not happening was the inferiority of the slower cars and drivers. What was stopping them improving and making races closer again? Only their own incompetence and the small minded ignorance of the people who continued to buy the inferior products on which those slower race cars were based. Your argument makes as much sense as hindering imports (and therefore damaging productivity and living standards) by imposition of tariffs.
I suppose by "inferior" products, you mean holden commodore? Interesting that jaguars won at bathurst 1 year, with commodores winning the 3 preceding races, and another 3 before the decade was over, one of which was while competing against both the cosworth powered sierras and the nissan gtr.Although the gtr proved unmatchable in 91 and 92, even those lap times would soon be matched, then surpassed by 2wd naturally aspirated v8's of the v8 supercar categeory, which were substantially cheaper to build and operate than a gtr skyline. I might add that a cheap shit vn commodore finished second place behind the gtr skyline at its peak in '91.Not too bad at all for cheap family sedan to hold its own against the most expensive and technically advanced sports coupe ever put on a race track.
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I can't believe how good the in-car cam looks
Very clear and hardly any interference/drop-outs
Pretty bloody good for '85!
Helicopter satellite.
@@MichaelKingsfordGray I guessed that, it’s an impressive setup that’s had pretty good improvements over the years
Jaguar XJS racing in Australia began with the V12 engines run internally standard, with only external modifications. They were strong, reliable and competitive.
Try that with your favourite family car.
And in its production form, although very low, the XJS had a mass of about 1.75 tonnes. Much more mass than any competition both before and after race modifications.
A good strong piece of gear.
But, if you can't beat them, have them banned. Jealousy is the surest sign of weakness.
Could not agree more, sod the same V8's with different badges.
They used to race cars that you could buy from the dealer.
I remember that years race - it was when I could watch it all day - The different makes running round then - Robbie and his Volvo - this amazing sounding Jag :)
The cars had a lot more personality back then - distinctive sounds - today I really cant tell one car apart from another ....its a fair dinkum yawn for someone who remembers the old races...thanks so much for this upload
WHAT A TRACK . No wonder people from across the world consistently rate it one of the best .
I remember when there was no one about - me and some mates skateboarded down the esses onto conrod circa1985 it is one of the best tracks in the world for high cubic inch muscle cars...
They added the Caltex Chase for 1987 as the track was part of the World Touring Car championship round and Conrod exceeded the maximum length of the straights they would use. It also came a year after the death of Mike Bergmann at the second hump on Conrad. If you want to see some interesting driving have a look at Glenn Seton in a Nissan Skyline (not godzilla yet) in the 1987 race in the wet.
Watch this clip - mainly from 1:50 onwards: ruclips.net/video/WdbJirJ1VOU/видео.html
I was in Oz at the time and watched this race live on TV - those TWR Jags were absolute monsters, came 1st and 2nd, miles ahead of anyone else.
This is crazy, its like F1 in the 60s, trees and telegraph poles all alongside the track, these boys had serious balls!
you can see how smooth that V12 is to drive! awesome engine i bet he really enjoyed driving that.
I remembegoing there. Was a great weekend in more ways than one.
After the race I could still hear those V12s in my head
Yep i saw Mike's TWR Jag tonight, and it's in really good condition! TWR added alot of custom components to those engines. He's also got a hold of a set of "Bathurst" cams :)
Cool Action from Major Tom...
Great engine that v12 its the 80s :)
thanks ozcritic for that piece of info interesting i still reckon back in those days it was better than full race cars today
This video ROCKS! I went to Bathurst every year 1974-1983. Thanks!
Best Bathurst race ever
Love that Jag, I was on the mountain the day it won. It sounded AWSOME when going across the top at reid park and then as it went over skyline. The sound will live with me forever. Would love to see one of the new XKR spercharged JAG's in a 12 hour proddy race on the mountain.
Amazing sound.
this is awesome, almost like ur drivin.
He's a good driver. car is great---just
flies by the others! enjoyed it, enjoy my
X-type too
jags are always the best coupés.. fantastic driving skillz
Great vehicle, even today, and handled here superbly
Ooof, that V12 sounds sweet.
Awesome driving!
Late reply here but yes, several still exist. Walkinshaw retained one, there is one in the heritage museum ( that may be TW's - not sure ) , there's another in New Zealand and one has just now been bought and brought back to Australia. ( I think by Mike Roddy in Melbourne if I remember rightly )
I believe it was car number 10, the winning Jag driven by John Goss that was left behind. I saw it on display later the following year. It still had the bugs on the front bumper and grill. 😅👍
Great car, great driving Tom.
The Man is A Legend RIP
i agree i don't even watch the supercars anymore they aren't ford or Holdens apart from a few body panels bring back the old days
watching this made me see how much the tracks changed in 25 years. only a bit of wall and armco back then. now the whole tracks got saftey rails, tyre barriers etc. makes you see just how safe motorsports become.
I agree re the Jag leather. My 1986 Sovereign's seat leather, which is original, still looks like new in most places, with just a few cracks forming in the driver's seat, even though that leather was not maintained as well as it should have been. Good strong stuff.
A rub with Gliptone about twice per year, which is easy to do, seems to be the way to keep it in good condition.
Actually it didn't blow an oil pump. The third car had a little front end bingle on lap one, I think at hell's corner. The headlight glass broke and bits of busted glass went into the air intake and were ingested into the engine, which subsequently died.
good ole neil crompton - been the rock of telecasts for 20 years!!!
@gcmc2: Opel pulled out of the upper class RWD category, so the VE Commodore to my knowledge was completey developed in Australia by Holden. Other GM brands now use the VE-base for some models, Vauxhall imports one of the HSV-models and sells it under the VX-R banner in the UK.
loved that jag a bit heavy going around bathurst sounds exellent
@armorgeddon Yes, I think you're right. GM in the US (obviously ) has high regard for the car and I think the story was that if it had come along a bit earlier it would have been a big chance to be used for a world large car platform. GM increasingly look to GMH Australia for technical and design work. They are that highly valued. The new retro Camaro was done by an Australian design team in the US. That may be one that might have used the VE platform.
The HE version of the V12, made from 1981, has its exhaust valves pocketed up inside the head, limiting potential for performance enhancement, so the earlier versions with flat face heads and combustion chambers in the pistons are the ones used for racing.
The best years for ATCC in my opinion too. I feel that maybe to bring a bit more variety and diverse competition to the series maybe ANY four door SEDAN with a V8 that is available for sale in Australia should be eligable to compete. And what do you know, you can make a comment without using profanity and attempting to insult others ;)
Haven't read all the comments but didn't Holden attempt to compete on the track in Europe?.Anyone remember how well they did against the euro's?.
Not only the engine capacity, but more importantly the valve port area which determines how rapidly gas can move in and out of the engine.
The Jaguar V12 has relatively short stroke of 70mm and relatively large cylinder diameter of 90mm, which with 12 cylinders mean overall large port area relative to displacement, even with only 2 valves per cylinder.
Yes, He and Mark Trenoweth up in Qld got a lot of TWR parts ( even parts from the Lemans cars )
When you say they added a lot of parts you are right but of course the major components are retained per group A regulations. In the sports cars they made custom cranks and even cylinder heads, titanium con rods etc. If you were at Mike's you probably saw the black and silver XJS sports sedan as well ? That is an incredible car that I sold him in a weak moment and I really regret it.
In person they are so noisy. Just ticking over and pulling away from a standstill they are loud and intimidating!
This was awesome!
@shmcmillan Whenever it is suggested that other makes enter the series the plan has usually been for the cars to be built RWD as V8 supercars only. ( rather than making a homologation production run ) They did get as far as building a couple of RWD V8 Magnas in one of these schemes. The need for homologation specials has sort of gone now anyway with the similar platform and suspension layout. If it ever cane to pass any new cars would be built to the same spec.
jeez that thing looked quick!
Yes, the XJS is still a magnificent vehicle. Not viciously powerful but certainly fast, effortless, quiet, "smoothness of V12 beyond belief" as one magazine said. Still by far the best car I know for everything from slow city driving to long fast trips and everything in between.
@swampmarshy yeah, there was an XKR in the Nations Cup for a season, but that bloody supercharger caused a lot of heat problems. I remember watching the damn thing slow down as the heat built up. PAul Gentilozzi in the US raced an XK8 in the US in one of their production series and flogged everything, but he used a naturally aspirated engine. The latest Jag V8 is 5 litres and has stacks of power, so would easily clean up the Chev/Ford engined cars.
how many horses did the walky jag have in those days?
im surprised how good sound was back in the 80s
Jaguar recording the fastest-ever touring car speed down Conrod Straight of 296km/h
where did you pluck that figure from? speculation? Commentator hype? fastest radar speeds, 83 and 84 Goss's Group C was clocked at 286 not 296, 85 the Group A TWR jags were clocked at 275, in 86 Moffat was clocked in the 05 Commodore at 272. all these speeds were in practice/qualifying. fastest speeds in the race were 2-4kmh slower
' Conrod ' straight ? Did I hear that correctly ? Very apt. 15 years old in 1985, now I have an XJS V12 HE. So so reliable........ conrod straight.
Yes, much like the TC cortina and Chrysler Centura - they had much larger engines fitted than was ever intended for the chassis. The commodore certainly was a better result than than the others !
The first commodores were originaly opel reckords.However it should be noted that they were heavily re-engineered in australia as the opel fell apart during reliability trials in Australia.body reinforcements and completely new struts were among the changes.The engines (4,6and 8 cyl), gearboxes and differentials were all of australian design.Therefore the commodore was still Australian to a large degree.
Ah, when there was no kink in conrod.
@jarviss64 Ohh Yeah. Now that does sound like a great idea. Yes, you are very correct about the heat from the supercharger too. I seem to remember a team running an XKR in Nations cup, or GTP, or something (OK I'm not exactly sure) but they did seem to have a lot of probl;ems keeping the engine reliable. It always seemed to be dead on the side of whatever circuit they were on after half race distance.
And the Jaguar V12 has plenty of strength to handle the results of that good breathing ability, frequently taken to around 7500 RPM in race cars and in twin turbo form producing around 750 HP and driven hard across the Atlantic for many hours at a time in record breaking racing boats.
One of the people who worked on the V12 at Jaguar has said that 8000 RPM is fine for a standard Jaguar V12. They are much stronger than the 6 cylinder Jaguar XK engines.
you hit the nail right on the head well said!
Fundamentally excellent design and construction, but being a Jag it has Lucas electrics and a small number of silly design faults that can cause problems and will if not rectified. But those things are well known and almost all easy to fix, contrary to popular opinion. And that popular opinion is why such basically good solid cars can be bought relatively cheaply.
those things shake the very ground
Very nice video!
Thx for sharing!
HMMM ... Just like they limped to the ETTC winning more races than all others combined? Like they Limped home to win 2 SCCA chanpionships against the Porsches & B/B Corvettes. Like V12s limped home in the world Hydraplane boat championships where only the bell heicopter engined boats came with in 1km of them. B/B v8s were busy firing pushrods through their hulls. Walkinshaw miles ahead until oil cooler broke on S/bump. Dickson car sucked glass into engine. No limping done. STUDY young man
What would be an example?
All commodores were opel/vauxhall right from the start at VB in 1978. That's why Brock was able to build that run of commodore coupes. He imported I think just the panels if I remember correctly from the 2 door opels. Even the VT commodore was based on opel ( the omega ) I expect the VE is on a GM world platform too but I'm not sure. That's just the way it's done these days. The small X type Jag for instance share its base platform with the ford mondeo.
VE was indeed a world platform but was designed primarily in Australia by holden themselves with most of their running gear sourced offshore
With all due respect, and not detracting from the quality or price of cars you mention, the point here is that this V12 XJ-S got pole position (in 1985) and I'd say that the vehicle attained the speed and time it did largely due to it's engine capacity and the driver's sheer ability on the day.
very cool, my Mums cousin actually owned this car after it was retired from racing. I don't know if he still has it or not though. Good video, thanks for posting this..
@XR4turbo the number of ignitions per revolution is pretty similar
Is it me or does it look greener then it does now.
@jarviss64 very nice, and good to have some different cars instead of only 2 brands(boring), i miss those days :(, thanks for the reply.
@mikldude about 550 bhp for the Walkinshaw Jags. There was an XJS that ran at Bathurst and the ATCC (a red one) that was tuned to 750 bhp and was awesomely fasst, but was unreliable.
Wilmingtons.
Just remember that this car didn’t win the race. It was the the sister car driven by Johnny Goss and Armin Hahne.
geez that engine sounds great! That wasn't coming from a jag lover either.
Yes, stupid suggestions that they were breaking down or limped home are nonsense. Walkinshaw car's oil cooler was holed and dumped its oil. Spent ages being repaired and still finished 3rd. The Dickson / Alam car was out very early. Car went into the back of Grice when he missed a gear and glass from broken headlight went into the engine via the air box. Why are people saying "what if" this or that ? Nothing came close on performance. Shnitzer BMW inherited 2nd after Walkinshaw's trouble.
Yep, the Falcons never ran in GpA, not the only Ford though, remember DJ running the Mustang?
not strictly correct, although not officially homologated with FISA/FIA a 'Group A XE 351 Falcon' was raced in New Zealand. In fact, DJ got pole position in it at Wellington in 1985 and briefly led the entire field until the gearbox broke
imgur.com/pfL3262
Yes. Look at the junk semitrailing arm rear suspension that Holden proudly promoted as "independent rear suspension". Easy to spot, because of the obviously crooked rear wheels that do not point straight ahead, even worse with passengers in the rear. Not surprisingly, the Commodores that have that basically faulty arrangement wear their tres unevenly and prematurely.
I'd love some variety but then again, that would defeat the purpose of competition, unless you make everything fair by having a control power to weight ratio, downforce to drivetrain/grip ratio, fuel efficiency to aerodynamics ratio, etc
but that would just become like the boring ford vs holden system of racing today.
2nd place was a Volvo ?????????????????????
@wingies777 i must admit, you did have your head screwed on right when you thought of ur username. sort of. should've been winger777, that would've been better.
My first car, a 1971 Triumph 2.5 PI with Lucas mechanical fuel injection, had such suspension, as did the vastly overrated BMWs built around that time and for many years later, including the 635CSi, all with twitchy handling at the limit of tyre adhesion, as would be expected from such a fundamentally unstable design.
You would think that, after several decades of Jaguar producing its excellent double wishbone suspension, Holden could have done the same or something similar.
The problem with the supercharged Jag V8 is that at high revs it creates a huge amount of heat, which effectively destroys the advantage of the supercharger, and net output is lower than the naturally aspirated engine. They'd be better off building a naturally aspirated V8 to racing spec than stuffing around with the supercharged V8.
seriously...these were the best years to watch bathurst for me....having the competition of the different makes with volvos turbo and jag's made it a real great day to see ford and holden fight with these speedsters.....today i can hardly tell the diff between a ford and a holden...its like watching formula 3 where all have same make and speed....maybe skillful but boooorrring
@fastfredy05 and may his legacy remain in supercharged VE Commodore's!
agree totally bf 109d not like the old days that is foreshure
Their biggest problem is rust, but careful choice of well maintained vehicle in good original condition, with application of Lanotec or similar, goes a long way to avoiding that one. Even if you find that you have bought a used Jag and it has significant rust in several places the purchase price plus the cost of body and other repairs will still be only a small proportion of the cost of a much newer and much inferior car.
agree wingies 777 totally mate
@jarviss64 it is a Ford V8 is it not?
Before they bent “The Rod”
I wish mine could do that
WE didn't retain to much fondness for the TWR Jags did we? ... Pity, I remember watching the race and they were quoting 280kph down conrod.
Well in fact the trap speeds are not relevant for two reasons. A cornerstone of proper motorsport strategy is winning at the slowest possible speed.
Secondly it makes no sense ( PR sense or any other kind ) for TWR to execute a cake walk & effectively destroy the race. It is just plain fact that the jags did win in '85 at a cruise.
Walkinshaw & Heyer ran in the touring car race at the Macau GP a few months earlier and were hitting 291 kph on the relatively short straight.
@wingies777 LOL the holden was one of the best cars ever made in the ATCC and won multiple events. The bmw was one of the most "slaughtered" cars in ATCC..
Cool sound 😂
imagine coming over the hill at 1:46 and seeing a kangaroo in the road.
that thing is fucking fast
Was I old enough? That is irrelevant to the discussion, but, yes, plenty old enough.
The reason we dont see any other cars in the V8 Supercars is because they wont commit and wont change to RWD format.Remeber these ATCC races were based off cars that were sold here or able to imported by the dealers for sale.
Toyota=Camry or Avalon FWD,wont commit to RWD,
Lexus=cant be bothered although they have the RWD already here,
I can name 20 other car makers that could join and probably wouldnt because they cant be bothered,our racing is based off RWD cars and not Euro FWD pls.
Yeah. When the competition is to stiff, ban them. Fuck making decent cars.
@jwebb2876 i'm proud to be a bogan mate.
The only reason for close racing not happening was the inferiority of the slower cars and drivers. What was stopping them improving and making races closer again? Only their own incompetence and the small minded ignorance of the people who continued to buy the inferior products on which those slower race cars were based.
Your argument makes as much sense as hindering imports (and therefore damaging productivity and living standards) by imposition of tariffs.
I suppose by "inferior" products, you mean holden commodore? Interesting that jaguars won at bathurst 1 year, with commodores winning the 3 preceding races, and another 3 before the decade was over, one of which was while competing against both the cosworth powered sierras and the nissan gtr.Although the gtr proved unmatchable in 91 and 92, even those lap times would soon be matched, then surpassed by 2wd naturally aspirated v8's of the v8 supercar categeory, which were substantially cheaper to build and operate than a gtr skyline.
I might add that a cheap shit vn commodore finished second place behind the gtr skyline at its peak in '91.Not too bad at all for cheap family sedan to hold its own against the most expensive and technically advanced sports coupe ever put on a race track.
toca
THAT IS THE STUPIDEST ENGINE SWAP EVER, Tom Walkinshaw bought 3 of these BEASTS down under to Bathurst and ABSOLUTELY SMASHED the field
What engine swap are you referring to?
v12 say no more
@wingies777 lol... just lol at everything you said..
Sounds almost identical to a 20b 3 rotor...strange
@MrFiveLeeeta Hand made and custom design to compete with the Fords!!!!!!!! Holden shit as always!