Some things to keep in mind while choosing voltage are the planned power duty cycle of how you want to use the bike and the potential heat dissipation needed. If you plan for your bike to do extended periods of high output riding then you can have different voltage and hub type needs than someone who expects their high wattage use to be of more limited duration intervals. Geared hub motors have some excellent characteristics including small size. But their compactness and density make it harder for them to dissipate heat versus a direct drive hub that typically has a lot of empty air space inside and a lot of surface cooling area on the outside. In most cases I think 60v is a good maximum for geared hubs and a good minimum for direct drive. Overall efficiency is better with a geared hub. The direct drive advantage is for high speed use where the motor must survive very high wattage so higher voltage is a good choice for them. Voltage choice still mostly boils down to how much speed you want though. A 1000 watt geared hub running 60v with a 40 amp controller can go about 40 mph. But if you are happy with a few less mph you can run less voltage and either save battery weight or add amp hours. If you are working with a 750 or 500 watt motor you just need to make a realistic estimate of the bikes speed potential and select voltage and amps to match. But if you want speeds over 40 mph then I think direct drive is the way to go and 72 volts is a good choice.
I have a 1000W rear hub motor and a 48v 13ah unit pack power battery. If I were to upgrade the battery will the motor be able to utilize that extra power output or is my setup already optimized. I feel that I would also have to upgrade the Motor controller as well if I want it to work.
I’d yet to retain much of the amps volts watts formula and it’s significance until this video. Many thanks for the clarity. So easy to get stuck in endless sphere minutiae..
There is a bit more to it. Size of the motor and controller dictate how many amps can be drawn from the battery. Batteries are not the same. Discharge amperage of the individual cells aka the capacity of the cells to discharge current aka amperage determines whether the controller and motor will be satiated with adequate current. And there is more than that. The BMS inside the battery should be sized based upon the types of cells used in the battery and their capacity to flow amperage. Generally, when spec-ing a battery, you want some 'headroom' of battery BMS amperage rating relative to the maximum amperage you have your controller set at. For example on my most recent BBSHD build which has a 30amp controller, maximum draw, you don't want to use a small maximum BMS amperage rating of 30 amps, because there is inadequate headroom due to battery sag as the battery depletes under high/prolonged load. For that reason, I chose a battery with 45amp BMS. But....using a BMS rated at an arbitrary amp rating means nothing if the cells aren't up to the task of flowing current to satisfy the controller and motor. To coin an old metaphor, the drapes have to match the curtains if you want good ebike performance and not have your battery BMS shut the motor off because the controller and motor are drawing too many amps the BMS and battery cells can't keep up with. In summary: Buy a battery with known, name brand Li-Ion cells whether 18650 or 21700 cells. Make sure your BMS amp rating covers the maximum current your controller draws with a bit to spare.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
Intend to trust the salesman, and on each of my ebike builds, I've used the BMS controllers that the sellers sent me. The SW900 controller allows me to alter the amp draw and is programmed to limit the amp draw to 5A below the maximum output. It's a 52V, 24ah battery, running at 35a on a 40a controller, and even after a year of riding 20-30 miles daily, the bike hasn't failed me once. It's been solid, and although the low speed torque has dimmed slightly, it still pulls upto 42-45mph on level ground, and with a motorcycle windshield fitted and a wide saddle, it's been very comfortable too.
Ok this video was extremely informative. Not only did I learn a ton, but I was very wrong on what I thought how the batteries worked. I clearly didn't understand that a higher voltage battery with the amp hours. Thank you.
I think you summed that up pretty well. Typically it seems like a lot of confusion when it comes to battery voltage, motor ratings and controller limits. I often hear people say running a motor higher than it’s rated voltage will fry it. That simply isn’t true as motors are only wound for a specific voltage for efficiency purposes and it can still work on any voltage. This has been my experience as I run 36v motors at 72v and even over 120v for a while to see how it would handle it. The only difference I can tell is the speed increase and slightly reduced efficiency. So good job on your explanation, it’s definitely needed with so many people wanting to learn about electric vehicles and battery systems.
@kevins5016 How many amps did you run on the 36v motors at 72v? I plan on doing the same but I don't know how many amps I should run it at since I did fry my motor twice using only 48v at 35-40amp for 30mins. Also what was your top speed? I got mine up to 38mph top speed.
If your capacitors, MOSFETs and diodes in the motor controller aren't all rated for the higher voltages, you probably will burn out some of those electronics much sooner than normal.
If your capacitors, MOSFETs and diodes in the motor controller aren't all rated for the higher voltages, you probably will burn out some of those electronics much sooner than normal.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
After doing all the research & math years ago I've forgotten most of it. I do remember just the basics overly simplified as Volts = top speed Amps = acceleration Your controller's amp draw basically determines torque so "power off the line". Voltage basically controlls the top RPM of the motor so "top speed". If your bike seems peppier off the line I'm betting it's just because the more volts you have the longer it takes before voltage sag effects acceleration. Meaning you get full power throttle through more of your ride before it starts sagging.
Idk if it is a thing with e-bikes. But when the voltage goes up you also have to keep in mind isolation of the wiring is more important cause its easier for it to jump the gap. But i don't think this is a big issue at all for e-bikes.
@@dashofawesome64 It is. Basic electronics universal. For higher voltage a thicker guage cable and higher capacity connectors are also needed. Maybe not with the small jump from 48 to 52 volts but I'd suggest better wires & connections for any other jump in voltage. There is a risk of melting wires if you don't upgrade the wires while over volting.
@@dcktater7847 If you have a gas handel the amps determine the speed of the bike. Also if you wane make it faster then overvolting is a better option cause of the temps with using a higher amperage.
I wouldn't say they are more efficient or energy dense. There is a slight reduction in wire losses due to running at a higher voltage and top speed is definitely better, but you're going to need current for acceleration. If you were to limit power output to say 500w, a higher voltage bike will draw a lower current but an equivalent size battery pack (Wh) is also going to be lower capacity (Ah) so the two will be quite comparable. The only difference is the higher voltage bike will hit a slightly higher top speed. If you were to unlock the full amount of current from your battery pack along with the higher voltage, then you will increase power output, accelerate fast and have a high top speed bike but your battery is going to drain quite quickly. I have that exact issue with my 76v (21s) e-bike which can hit 55 mph/90 km/h but range is quite limited when riding hard. Energy density depends purely on the type of batteries rather than the configuration, for example lithium ion is more energy dense than lead acid. I'm not even sure why a higher voltage pack would be more expensive if the cell count remains about the same, since the only difference is how they are being configured.
Yeah that is weird! I'm only learning about this stuff now, you'd think that the cell count should dictate the price. Anyway, if you buy a 3000w hub rather than a 350w hub, you obviously want the benefits it provides. You must match the battery headroom and mileage accordingly. Everything has its pluses and negatives. I want to build a faster speed (40mph or so) commuter ebike. Need to go minimum 10 miles round trip, (15 to be safe) I'm a big boy, so I'm thinking 1000w hub at either 60v or 72v. At 72v, it'll only pull 14 amps, so a 20ah battery should do it! I'll still be able to pull max amps out of the motor (that's why I would buy a 1000w instead of a 350w), and not stress the batteries out!
The only time lower voltage is worth it is when you have a limited space for batteries and you can take the same number of cells and create more parallel strands than series to get more amp hours in the same package constraints. Top speed will go down but how often do you cruise on a bicycle at 45 miles an hour
It all depends on what you want from your ebike, range or power, its pretty much as simple as that.... The same sized battery will have more range on a 48v system verses a 72v system Its almost like comparing a 125cc to a 250cc, the 125 will go further but the 250 will get you there quicker
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado you'll have no riding time, that's for sure. I'm not sure what it'll do electrically but I'm positive it will be like leaving the gas station with a half gallon of gas.
Voltage doesn't matter at all with regard to performance. The only benefit of higher voltage systems is that you can use thinner wiring for a given level of power output (wattage), because there's less current (amperage). For example, suppose you have a 5,000-watt motor powered by a 12-volt battery. That's about 417 amps, and you'd need wicked thick wiring for that. Even 4/0 gauge (which is nearly a 1/2" diameter) would be too thin as it's only rated for about 250 to 300 amps, depending on the length of run. On the other hand, with a 72-volt battery, a 5,000-watt motor would only draw about 69 amps, so you would only need 2 gauge wire (about 1/4" diameter) for that, and you could probably get away with using 4 gauge if the run was short enough. A downside to using higher DC voltage is that it's particularly hard on mechanical switches, which is why the voltage rating for a switch is always much lower for DC than for AC. Even 12 volts DC is hard on switches. That's because DC arcs a lot more than AC as the switch contacts are about to close (which erodes the contacts) and the higher the voltage, the bigger the arc. Another downside is that it can shock you. 12 volts won't shock you (unless it's, e.g., on your tongue) because the dielectric strength of typical skin is higher than 12 volts. 60 to 70 volts is right around the threshold for where you can get shocked, and with the amount of power that some of these e-bike motors have, the amperage behind such a shock could be dangerous.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado "Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?" Your battery isn't rated for 2 amps, it's rated for 2 amp hours ("Ah"). Amp hours is a capacity rating, not an amperage rating. 2 Ah means it can expend 2 amps for 1 hour. A 3,000-watt motor running at full power would draw about 37.5 amps at 80 volts, so even if that little 2 Ah battery can deliver that much current without overheating, it would go dead in about 3 minutes. A 4 Ah, 80-volt battery would go dead in about 6 minutes.
Ah I see! I was thinking about getting that adapter you see to double the ah or voltage??? I don’t want to blow up my new motor and controller by doing double the voltage (buy the same 80v and connecting it together with the one I already have) but if you say that it’s safe and a good idea I’ll do it. I don’t want to have to buy a new battery for $700, id rather get another 80v for like $150 and use that adapter thing that is going around. Any advice on this would be amazing! You got a new subscriber! Thank you!!!
@@Landonelegado If you wire two batteries in parallel it doesn't double the voltage. The voltage stays the same but the capacity (amp hours) is doubled. On the other hand, if you wire two batteries together in _series_ the voltage is doubled but the capacity stays the same. The problem is, two 4 Ah batteries in parallel is only 8 Ah, and that's still very low capacity for a 3,000-watt motor. At full power it would drain in about 13 minutes, and there's still the question of whether or not a pair of those batteries could handle delivering 37.5 amps (18.75 amps each) for 13 minutes without overheating. It would be best to ask the battery manufacturer about that. If the battery manufacturer tells you that their batteries can handle that, and you're okay with only 13 minutes of run time at full power (at less than full power it would be more run time of course, for example, at half power it would be 26 minutes of run time, and so on), then go for it. Make sure you use sufficiently thick wiring. I would use at least 4-gauge to be on the safe side, and make sure it's 100% copper, not aluminum or copper-clad aluminum ("CCA"). It's best to buy it from a known-to-be-reputable source, such as your local auto parts store (they usually sell it by the foot, and they can usually crimp copper lugs onto it as well), otherwise you might get CCA masquerading as 100% copper, and/or 6- or 8-gauge with extra thick insulation (to give the illusion of it being thicker wire) masquerading as 4 gauge. 4-gauge has a good safety margin because it's rated for about double the amperage your motor would draw at full power from an 80-volt battery.
@@MaximRecoil thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful response! I have purchased the NB power 3000 W kit with Sabaton controller. Which wires need to be four gauge, just the phase wires or battery to controller wires or Hall sensors as well? Sorry to ask more questions but I’m thinking about the battery blender, adapter, but my other battery is a 52 V 13 amp hour battery. Is this a recipe for disaster? What if I just use my 52 V 13 amp hour with this big motor and strong controller will that be OK?
I'm no pro, but I think that people think that if they get a 2000w hub motor that is 36v, but they only need to go a short distance and want to save money and space on the bike, that they only need a 5ah battery..... Now, it might get you your space savings, save you money and it might get you your mileage fine, but where you come up short is not being able to use the 2000w hub to its full potential. Obviously you want power if you bought the 2000w and not the 350w, so it only makes sense to buy the battery that will deliver the power! The 5ah battery won't be able to supply the power and it will heat up really fast. Where 72v and 84v hubs are better is that they can supply more power (watts) than a 36v battery pack. With a 36v setup, that can handle the 2000w motor, you would have to push 55.55 amps through the system. If you were at 84v, the amp draw would be only 23.8 amps. The 84v batteries could supply that power and have a healthy easier time doing it.
Interesting. I made a 24s 16p 40kw footscooter 100.8v top charge. (It's a muscle scooter. I also used 4 ga welding cables with anderson 120amp 600v rated connectors . I have 60v 2800w rated motors for now. It pulls very hard ,but it can fry the internal motor wires . That happened a few time when the phase is up around 550 .
Does marvel mistery oil act like nos in a hub motor . ? ??? Or will it oveheat the motor . I question it because it works in my rc drag cars . Just a drop or two dont blow it . But it's the only oil that can clime to the heat source. Hold the penny standing in a drop of marvel mystery oil it climes onto your fingers its attracted to heat . Why I asked questions first .
Good information. Here is yet another factor. The bigger the battery the more ugliness of the bike. It is a trade off. Lately, I have been more concerned about a clean looking bike.
Amp-Hours is a measure of Capacity. Max. DISCHARGE Current Times Volts determines how powerful your bike can be. Higher Volts need less amps for same power so are more efficient.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado he K the maximum discharge rate of your battery. If it's a regular lithium ion ebike battery it should be more like 30 to 40 amps therefore should be fine.
Okay thank you for the response! I fried my last controller probably because (I think) the controller wasn’t strong enough for the 80v battery. It was a e-bikeling controller that came with my 1200 watt conversion kit. Then so I got a new and stronger controller able to handle the 80v battery by then my motor (1200 watt) got burned up (the winding were black when I opened it up) SO THEN, I just ordered a 3000 watt motor kit from NB power off Amazon and it comes today but I’m stressed because I don’t think I have the right battery! Another question: is it okay to use a lower voltage battery on a stronger motor and controller? I have my first battery still (52v 13ah) but I think it semi-died bc I didn’t use it for a whole year!
Higher voltage for a given power results in less current, so you don't need huge wire in the motor and harness. Less current is also easier/cheaper for controller design. 50 amps is much easier to handle than 500.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
at 7min 25sec Nice Mitsubishi GTO 😍 Not sure what to believe with all the conflicting info on the net. Sometimes it's based on the motor, or the controller. I like your idea of higher volts. I'm looking to build my own E-Cargo Trailer. Vibrations eventually crack bicycle frame. The motor I'm looking at is a 16inch 36volt (or greater) 750 to 1,000 watts doing 25 or 30 miles every day up and down hills. I'd be mainly using the throttle for uphill. Trying to figure out the minimum battery AH needed. I'm thinking 35ah. Anyone's input is appreciated -EDIT figured out I'd need a minimum 25AH 36volt for 30 miles for a windy chilly hilly region. You're right, they don't make battery packs much larger than that 😕 I know BatterySpace can make custom batteries. Used them before, they're a great site and cheap too.
You really need to be careful what you say. At 6:21 You say higher voltage battery’s are more power and energy dense. That’s just wrong. Power and energy density only depend on the Type of cells and amount of cells not the pack voltage. Using the same cell a 10s4p (36V) has the same power and energy as a 20s2p (72V) because they both have 40 cells. If you run the 10s with a 20kv motor and the 20s with a 10kv motor you will have pretty much identical performance and range.
Additionally the motor heat explanation is also very simplified to to point where is effectively wrong. Yes more current in the motor increases heat. But if you increase the battery voltage you motor still needs the same current. Current is directly proportional to torque. You only gain top speed. So no efficiency increase. Battery current to the esc is lower but motor current stays the same. If you really wanted lower current you would also need to change to a lower KV more so you get more torque for the same current. But lower KV motors also have increased internal resistance you the heat comes back indirectly because they heat up more for the same current. You see it’s all much harder than it seems. You are still at the very start of your journey 😉
I like trying to figure out where these rides are from trying to pick up on things people show in the video but unfortunately on my tiny little phone it’s very hard to even discern the name of anything with a screenshot, so this is the town of Summit where might that be, thanks for the recap
Great info.. looking at engwe x26 but want more power for hills. Would I have to switch everything on it or just component? It has 2 huge battery packs but only goes 33mph.. looking for 40 to 50. I Also want to keep the original mag wheels if possible. Thanks man... I really want this particular bike . I know the wired freedom has power I need but don't like style...
Hi great content! new sub here !! i have a question ? they re is no expert ebike in my city .. i have a yolin 1000w dual 48v 22 amp battery .. and i bough another big tank 52 v 30 amp to put on top .. didnt install yet.. can i run all three battery on my 48 v 26 amp controller ..of course not at the same time i have switch on\off on both of my 48 V battery ..is this possible ??!
Its all about the controller the bigger you go the better you go 52 volt battery is fine but you need a 3000 watt hub with a 96 volt controller an youll be doing 50mph easy
Controller size is related to number of MOSFETs and current capacity. My daughter has a controller the side of a wallet to handle 15 amps max and her bike tops out at 22 mph at 36 volts. My 3,000 watt 72v controller is the size of a brick and can run 60 amps continuous at 50 mph.
@@marthamryglod291 Would you be able to advise where/what battery your purchased, got a e-bike 3000w 72v hub with 80a controller coming, confused with regards to what battery is needed. Thank you.
@@financiallyfree I recommend getting the largest triangle battery that will fit your frame. The UPP 72v 20ah battery is good too. I have two of those. Get the best cells you can. I built myself a 20s5p pack with Samsung 40t 21700 cells and it outperforms all the triangle battery packs I have.
@@financiallyfree oh and also make sure the connectors match from the controller to the battery. I recommend xt90 anti-spark. They can handle 90 amps continuous.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor? Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well? I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
❤hi great Chanel! Just a quick question to you or community? I a bafang bbshd set up with 40v 20ah. How do i know how much Voltage i can put on the motor for example its hard sometimes to put a 20ah battery onto some bikes but what i would like to do is set up 2x36 v batteries. Is this possible or is there a voltage ⚡️ that is too much for current to start reacting in non beneficial ways.
Whatever watt rating the motor is, higher voltage will result in faster speeds. You can’t really compare those two factors against each other as a general rule, it really comes down to what type of motor it is, what configuration it’s in and your specific use case.
With your old bike with the 72v did it eat into the drop outside at all? I saw a little silver fraying when I changed the tire and took the hub out, but I can't tell if it's normal or not. Thanks!
that can happen even with regular wheels and quick release if tightened too much. as long as its not insane wear on the inside of the dropouts where the axle meets the frame, i'd say you dont have much to worry about! just make sure to use torque arms
@@hank_Reardon yeah man, I'd say you're fine. if you're worried and seem to have a bit more of a "gap" between the axle & the dropouts, I've heard of people shimming it with pieces of aluminum! either sheeting or just soda cans cut & folded to fill the gaps. it should be a snug fit, if its not, I would fill the gaps!
@@hank_Reardon i wouldnt RELY on it if there's a lot of play, but between torque arms & clamping pressure, I don't see an issue in giving yourself more meat to burn thru! take care & happy riding :)
If you're looking for fast then just look at the watts. 3000 watts (4 hp) is a decent power output, probably considered pretty fast, depending on the weight of the e-bike. I'm not an expert but 72v with a 3 kW motor means about 42 amps drawn. So basically at max throttle, you could go about an hour on the battery. There's obviously more to that like weight, wind, etc. I bet you could get 40-50 mi to a charge riding moderately and 50+mph top speed.
For me I find 48 volt 20+ ah 1500 watt battery does a fine job of giving me life threatening speeds, butt bruising long powerful ride. But too found that 36 volt battery with the same specs 36v 20+ah 1000 watt , can perform just as nice as the higher volt batteries but is far smaller and lighter so makes for great commuter bike builds and even cruisers. My wife's bike is a Long beach cruiser with a 36 volt 1000 watt system violamart direct drive system and mine is a 48 v 1000w she can give me a run for my money on the flats but the extra 12 volt show when we climb hills. Using a 750 watt planetary geared hub drive a 36 volt battery is a great combination of power, range and weight. When you want big power remember it comes at a price, I have torqued to death some frames with over powered systems and come to understand that bicycles do have their limits. And they don't handle the same with added weight and speed.
I ride a 27.5" hard tail conversion, using a 52V 24ah battery, on a 40A controller and a 1500W rear hub drive. The battery cost me £375, and the motor kit cost me £340. I've updated both disc brakes to 180mm SRAM discs and hydraulic Shimano brakes. I've removed the front 3 sprockets and replaced with a single chainstay sprocket with titanium cranks and wider stam pedals. I've rebuilt and respoked the rear rim, and resolved the front rim with a double wall rim and uprated the tyres to 2.80" Johnny watts tyres. Also added SKS Fatboy mudguards , SKS rockshields, a wide comfort saddle, a wideboy handlebar bag and a 30 inch motorcycle windshield, and the absolutely vital twin mirrors. I wired a 12V twin LED headlight to the controller, and a twin rear light with turn signals and a horn. It gets some funny looks at times,
I wanted to DIY a 72v for my bike but all the bms I see are from china and look sketchy as fuck. And the thing about products from china are either they are good or they fail explosively. SO i think i'm settling for a diy 52v battery for now
What about the amount of amps the battery discharges? I bought a 60 volt 50 amp battery rather than a 72 volt 40 amp battery as I was happy with the top speed, but needed more torque and push going uphill. Do you think the 72 volt with less amp discharge would have been a better choice?
Battery amps depends on how many controller amps you are using. If you are using a 35 amp controller you want your battery amps 40+amps or more. 35 or less you will have lots of voltage sag and less power. 50 amp vs 40 amp the 50 amp will be better.
Though these things seem like a nice cheap altertantive to your car during the warmer months these things still run on batteries. As such, the batteries capacity will diminish over time and by the time you need/want to replace it the company wont be producing that bikes batteries model forcing you to buy a new one or be left with a 50lbs bike. Seems nice until you take that particular aspect into consideration.
Higher voltage generally gives more speed and acceleration but the build has to be able to handle that power safely which most bikes wont . 48v is enough for reasonable acceleration and top speeds that are safer and more legal lol. However I do intend to build one with more power sometime..
This was very helpful. Thanks a bunch! How many volts is enough? As long as I can go ludicrous speed! ;) If you already haven't covered it, how about building a battery?
He could buy the supplies to build a battery like I could or you could...there are enough books and on line tutorials how to do it but, building batteries is kind of like knitting for men. If you want an analogy in the bike business, battery building is like wheel building. Only a very small percent of bike builders lace and true their own wheels. Much more expedient to simply buy them and not that much more expensive. Battery and wheel building is very 'labor intensive'. Now, repairing a battery is a bird of another feather. I just had to to repair a new battery I ordered through Amazon from China. I asked them to exchange the battery and they started asking me questions and I obliged them and they asked if I was technical and I said I was and so they coached me on troubleshooting the battery and it was determined to be a faulty BMS. They sent me a new one, I installed it and the battery is now flawless. Those are my thoughts. What you want to do is learn what you want in a battery in terms of: How many cells in series X cells in parallel for total no. of cells. What type of cells, model and name brand What type of BMS and amperage rating....a Smart BMS with bluetooth or basic BMS. Understanding battery tech goes a long way to getting the right battery for the bike to match the controller and motor. You don't have to make the battery.
Higher voltage battery doesn’t improve the “pep” at low speed the voltage to the motor is very low anyway. Phase current from the controller and motor characteristics are all that matter.
Seriously 😳 dude! You young guys ride too fast 💨 for an ebike which makes e-bikes dangerous. Your ebike weighs over or close to 100 lbs making it very dangerous if you hit someone or their property. Serious regulations are coming just because of you brain 🧠 dead ☠️ ebike riders. I have an ebike it weighs 92 lbs and yes I know how dangerous it can be because it runs at or about 25 to 31 miles per hour. Be safe, considerate and careful.
Some things to keep in mind while choosing voltage are the planned power duty cycle of how you want to use the bike and the potential heat dissipation needed. If you plan for your bike to do extended periods of high output riding then you can have different voltage and hub type needs than someone who expects their high wattage use to be of more limited duration intervals. Geared hub motors have some excellent characteristics including small size. But their compactness and density make it harder for them to dissipate heat versus a direct drive hub that typically has a lot of empty air space inside and a lot of surface cooling area on the outside. In most cases I think 60v is a good maximum for geared hubs and a good minimum for direct drive. Overall efficiency is better with a geared hub. The direct drive advantage is for high speed use where the motor must survive very high wattage so higher voltage is a good choice for them. Voltage choice still mostly boils down to how much speed you want though. A 1000 watt geared hub running 60v with a 40 amp controller can go about 40 mph. But if you are happy with a few less mph you can run less voltage and either save battery weight or add amp hours. If you are working with a 750 or 500 watt motor you just need to make a realistic estimate of the bikes speed potential and select voltage and amps to match. But if you want speeds over 40 mph then I think direct drive is the way to go and 72 volts is a good choice.
Where do I the best 1000w geared hub?
@@thewhoopingcrane Eunorau usually stocks the Bafang G062 1000w hub.
I have a 1000W rear hub motor and a 48v 13ah unit pack power battery. If I were to upgrade the battery will the motor be able to utilize that extra power output or is my setup already optimized. I feel that I would also have to upgrade the Motor controller as well if I want it to work.
Tell me no more im getting a 72v
I’d yet to retain much of the amps volts watts formula and it’s significance until this video. Many thanks for the clarity. So easy to get stuck in endless sphere minutiae..
There is a bit more to it. Size of the motor and controller dictate how many amps can be drawn from the battery. Batteries are not the same. Discharge amperage of the individual cells aka the capacity of the cells to discharge current aka amperage determines whether the controller and motor will be satiated with adequate current. And there is more than that. The BMS inside the battery should be sized based upon the types of cells used in the battery and their capacity to flow amperage. Generally, when spec-ing a battery, you want some 'headroom' of battery BMS amperage rating relative to the maximum amperage you have your controller set at. For example on my most recent BBSHD build which has a 30amp controller, maximum draw, you don't want to use a small maximum BMS amperage rating of 30 amps, because there is inadequate headroom due to battery sag as the battery depletes under high/prolonged load. For that reason, I chose a battery with 45amp BMS. But....using a BMS rated at an arbitrary amp rating means nothing if the cells aren't up to the task of flowing current to satisfy the controller and motor.
To coin an old metaphor, the drapes have to match the curtains if you want good ebike performance and not have your battery BMS shut the motor off because the controller and motor are drawing too many amps the BMS and battery cells can't keep up with.
In summary:
Buy a battery with known, name brand Li-Ion cells whether 18650 or 21700 cells.
Make sure your BMS amp rating covers the maximum current your controller draws with a bit to spare.
Thanks bro
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
Intend to trust the salesman, and on each of my ebike builds, I've used the BMS controllers that the sellers sent me.
The SW900 controller allows me to alter the amp draw and is programmed to limit the amp draw to 5A below the maximum output.
It's a 52V, 24ah battery, running at 35a on a 40a controller, and even after a year of riding 20-30 miles daily, the bike hasn't failed me once.
It's been solid, and although the low speed torque has dimmed slightly, it still pulls upto 42-45mph on level ground, and with a motorcycle windshield fitted and a wide saddle, it's been very comfortable too.
Ok this video was extremely informative. Not only did I learn a ton, but I was very wrong on what I thought how the batteries worked. I clearly didn't understand that a higher voltage battery with the amp hours. Thank you.
I think you summed that up pretty well. Typically it seems like a lot of confusion when it comes to battery voltage, motor ratings and controller limits. I often hear people say running a motor higher than it’s rated voltage will fry it. That simply isn’t true as motors are only wound for a specific voltage for efficiency purposes and it can still work on any voltage. This has been my experience as I run 36v motors at 72v and even over 120v for a while to see how it would handle it. The only difference I can tell is the speed increase and slightly reduced efficiency. So good job on your explanation, it’s definitely needed with so many people wanting to learn about electric vehicles and battery systems.
@kevins5016 How many amps did you run on the 36v motors at 72v? I plan on doing the same but I don't know how many amps I should run it at since I did fry my motor twice using only 48v at 35-40amp for 30mins. Also what was your top speed? I got mine up to 38mph top speed.
If your capacitors, MOSFETs and diodes in the motor controller aren't all rated for the higher voltages, you probably will burn out some of those electronics much sooner than normal.
If your capacitors, MOSFETs and diodes in the motor controller aren't all rated for the higher voltages, you probably will burn out some of those electronics much sooner than normal.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
After doing all the research & math years ago I've forgotten most of it. I do remember just the basics overly simplified as
Volts = top speed
Amps = acceleration
Your controller's amp draw basically determines torque so "power off the line". Voltage basically controlls the top RPM of the motor so "top speed".
If your bike seems peppier off the line I'm betting it's just because the more volts you have the longer it takes before voltage sag effects acceleration. Meaning you get full power throttle through more of your ride before it starts sagging.
Idk if it is a thing with e-bikes. But when the voltage goes up you also have to keep in mind isolation of the wiring is more important cause its easier for it to jump the gap. But i don't think this is a big issue at all for e-bikes.
@@dashofawesome64 It is. Basic electronics universal.
For higher voltage a thicker guage cable and higher capacity connectors are also needed. Maybe not with the small jump from 48 to 52 volts but I'd suggest better wires & connections for any other jump in voltage. There is a risk of melting wires if you don't upgrade the wires while over volting.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 True
this is why i bought ONYX CTY 2. 68v at full charge and by low battery its still over 60v. Can hit 50mph!
@@dcktater7847 If you have a gas handel the amps determine the speed of the bike. Also if you wane make it faster then overvolting is a better option cause of the temps with using a higher amperage.
Best explanation I've seen yet. Thanks man.
Very informative, I appreciate you sharing
I ride 136 volt EUC 👍 .
Awesome video, thanks for the information ✌️ Keep it wheel✌️
I wouldn't say they are more efficient or energy dense. There is a slight reduction in wire losses due to running at a higher voltage and top speed is definitely better, but you're going to need current for acceleration.
If you were to limit power output to say 500w, a higher voltage bike will draw a lower current but an equivalent size battery pack (Wh) is also going to be lower capacity (Ah) so the two will be quite comparable. The only difference is the higher voltage bike will hit a slightly higher top speed.
If you were to unlock the full amount of current from your battery pack along with the higher voltage, then you will increase power output, accelerate fast and have a high top speed bike but your battery is going to drain quite quickly. I have that exact issue with my 76v (21s) e-bike which can hit 55 mph/90 km/h but range is quite limited when riding hard.
Energy density depends purely on the type of batteries rather than the configuration, for example lithium ion is more energy dense than lead acid. I'm not even sure why a higher voltage pack would be more expensive if the cell count remains about the same, since the only difference is how they are being configured.
Yeah that is weird! I'm only learning about this stuff now, you'd think that the cell count should dictate the price.
Anyway, if you buy a 3000w hub rather than a 350w hub, you obviously want the benefits it provides. You must match the battery headroom and mileage accordingly.
Everything has its pluses and negatives.
I want to build a faster speed (40mph or so) commuter ebike. Need to go minimum 10 miles round trip, (15 to be safe) I'm a big boy, so I'm thinking 1000w hub at either 60v or 72v. At 72v, it'll only pull 14 amps, so a 20ah battery should do it! I'll still be able to pull max amps out of the motor (that's why I would buy a 1000w instead of a 350w), and not stress the batteries out!
The only time lower voltage is worth it is when you have a limited space for batteries and you can take the same number of cells and create more parallel strands than series to get more amp hours in the same package constraints. Top speed will go down but how often do you cruise on a bicycle at 45 miles an hour
It all depends on what you want from your ebike, range or power, its pretty much as simple as that....
The same sized battery will have more range on a 48v system verses a 72v system
Its almost like comparing a 125cc to a 250cc, the 125 will go further but the 250 will get you there quicker
What if i want both, range and power. 50mph cruising and 100+miles range
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado you'll have no riding time, that's for sure. I'm not sure what it'll do electrically but I'm positive it will be like leaving the gas station with a half gallon of gas.
I would love to see a video about how to build or figure out how to build a super long range bike.
From my investigation, you're talking about an emotorcycle
Voltage doesn't matter at all with regard to performance. The only benefit of higher voltage systems is that you can use thinner wiring for a given level of power output (wattage), because there's less current (amperage).
For example, suppose you have a 5,000-watt motor powered by a 12-volt battery. That's about 417 amps, and you'd need wicked thick wiring for that. Even 4/0 gauge (which is nearly a 1/2" diameter) would be too thin as it's only rated for about 250 to 300 amps, depending on the length of run.
On the other hand, with a 72-volt battery, a 5,000-watt motor would only draw about 69 amps, so you would only need 2 gauge wire (about 1/4" diameter) for that, and you could probably get away with using 4 gauge if the run was short enough.
A downside to using higher DC voltage is that it's particularly hard on mechanical switches, which is why the voltage rating for a switch is always much lower for DC than for AC. Even 12 volts DC is hard on switches. That's because DC arcs a lot more than AC as the switch contacts are about to close (which erodes the contacts) and the higher the voltage, the bigger the arc.
Another downside is that it can shock you. 12 volts won't shock you (unless it's, e.g., on your tongue) because the dielectric strength of typical skin is higher than 12 volts. 60 to 70 volts is right around the threshold for where you can get shocked, and with the amount of power that some of these e-bike motors have, the amperage behind such a shock could be dangerous.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado "Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?"
Your battery isn't rated for 2 amps, it's rated for 2 amp hours ("Ah"). Amp hours is a capacity rating, not an amperage rating. 2 Ah means it can expend 2 amps for 1 hour.
A 3,000-watt motor running at full power would draw about 37.5 amps at 80 volts, so even if that little 2 Ah battery can deliver that much current without overheating, it would go dead in about 3 minutes. A 4 Ah, 80-volt battery would go dead in about 6 minutes.
Ah I see! I was thinking about getting that adapter you see to double the ah or voltage???
I don’t want to blow up my new motor and controller by doing double the voltage (buy the same 80v and connecting it together with the one I already have) but if you say that it’s safe and a good idea I’ll do it. I don’t want to have to buy a new battery for $700, id rather get another 80v for like $150 and use that adapter thing that is going around.
Any advice on this would be amazing! You got a new subscriber! Thank you!!!
@@Landonelegado If you wire two batteries in parallel it doesn't double the voltage. The voltage stays the same but the capacity (amp hours) is doubled. On the other hand, if you wire two batteries together in _series_ the voltage is doubled but the capacity stays the same.
The problem is, two 4 Ah batteries in parallel is only 8 Ah, and that's still very low capacity for a 3,000-watt motor. At full power it would drain in about 13 minutes, and there's still the question of whether or not a pair of those batteries could handle delivering 37.5 amps (18.75 amps each) for 13 minutes without overheating. It would be best to ask the battery manufacturer about that.
If the battery manufacturer tells you that their batteries can handle that, and you're okay with only 13 minutes of run time at full power (at less than full power it would be more run time of course, for example, at half power it would be 26 minutes of run time, and so on), then go for it.
Make sure you use sufficiently thick wiring. I would use at least 4-gauge to be on the safe side, and make sure it's 100% copper, not aluminum or copper-clad aluminum ("CCA"). It's best to buy it from a known-to-be-reputable source, such as your local auto parts store (they usually sell it by the foot, and they can usually crimp copper lugs onto it as well), otherwise you might get CCA masquerading as 100% copper, and/or 6- or 8-gauge with extra thick insulation (to give the illusion of it being thicker wire) masquerading as 4 gauge. 4-gauge has a good safety margin because it's rated for about double the amperage your motor would draw at full power from an 80-volt battery.
@@MaximRecoil thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful response! I have purchased the NB power 3000 W kit with Sabaton controller.
Which wires need to be four gauge, just the phase wires or battery to controller wires or Hall sensors as well?
Sorry to ask more questions but I’m thinking about the battery blender, adapter, but my other battery is a 52 V 13 amp hour battery. Is this a recipe for disaster? What if I just use my 52 V 13 amp hour with this big motor and strong controller will that be OK?
I'm no pro, but I think that people think that if they get a 2000w hub motor that is 36v, but they only need to go a short distance and want to save money and space on the bike, that they only need a 5ah battery..... Now, it might get you your space savings, save you money and it might get you your mileage fine, but where you come up short is not being able to use the 2000w hub to its full potential. Obviously you want power if you bought the 2000w and not the 350w, so it only makes sense to buy the battery that will deliver the power! The 5ah battery won't be able to supply the power and it will heat up really fast.
Where 72v and 84v hubs are better is that they can supply more power (watts) than a 36v battery pack.
With a 36v setup, that can handle the 2000w motor, you would have to push 55.55 amps through the system. If you were at 84v, the amp draw would be only 23.8 amps. The 84v batteries could supply that power and have a healthy easier time doing it.
Interesting. I made a 24s 16p 40kw footscooter 100.8v top charge. (It's a muscle scooter. I also used 4 ga welding cables with anderson 120amp 600v rated connectors . I have 60v 2800w rated motors for now. It pulls very hard ,but it can fry the internal motor wires . That happened a few time when the phase is up around 550 .
@@Vmaxfodder nice!
Smooth cruising 🎯
Does marvel mistery oil act like nos in a hub motor . ? ??? Or will it oveheat the motor . I question it because it works in my rc drag cars . Just a drop or two dont blow it . But it's the only oil that can clime to the heat source. Hold the penny standing in a drop of marvel mystery oil it climes onto your fingers its attracted to heat . Why I asked questions first .
Good information. Here is yet another factor. The bigger the battery the more ugliness of the bike. It is a trade off. Lately, I have been more concerned about a clean looking bike.
Amp-Hours is a measure of Capacity. Max. DISCHARGE Current Times Volts determines how powerful your bike can be. Higher Volts need less amps for same power so are more efficient.
@@indiesigi7807 It's due to P=I Squared R I think you'll find that's why all power transmission is High voltage
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado he K the maximum discharge rate of your battery. If it's a regular lithium ion ebike battery it should be more like 30 to 40 amps therefore should be fine.
Okay thank you for the response!
I fried my last controller probably because (I think) the controller wasn’t strong enough for the 80v battery.
It was a e-bikeling controller that came with my 1200 watt conversion kit.
Then so I got a new and stronger controller able to handle the 80v battery by then my motor (1200 watt) got burned up (the winding were black when I opened it up)
SO THEN, I just ordered a 3000 watt motor kit from NB power off Amazon and it comes today but I’m stressed because I don’t think I have the right battery!
Another question: is it okay to use a lower voltage battery on a stronger motor and controller? I have my first battery still (52v 13ah) but I think it semi-died bc I didn’t use it for a whole year!
Higher voltage for a given power results in less current, so you don't need huge wire in the motor and harness. Less current is also easier/cheaper for controller design. 50 amps is much easier to handle than 500.
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
@@Landonelegado P = EI so I =P/E so at 3000 watts your controller will try to draw 37.5 amps from your source.
Thank you for responding! Does my battery have enough amps to power the controller and motor successfully
What about continuous amp power, can u cover that in a future video?
at 7min 25sec Nice Mitsubishi GTO 😍
Not sure what to believe with all the conflicting info on the net. Sometimes it's based on the motor, or the controller. I like your idea of higher volts. I'm looking to build my own E-Cargo Trailer. Vibrations eventually crack bicycle frame. The motor I'm looking at is a 16inch 36volt (or greater) 750 to 1,000 watts doing 25 or 30 miles every day up and down hills. I'd be mainly using the throttle for uphill. Trying to figure out the minimum battery AH needed. I'm thinking 35ah. Anyone's input is appreciated -EDIT figured out I'd need a minimum 25AH 36volt for 30 miles for a windy chilly hilly region. You're right, they don't make battery packs much larger than that 😕 I know BatterySpace can make custom batteries. Used them before, they're a great site and cheap too.
I'm torn between a 2000w 72v setup like you had or a 72v Grin Tech GMAC geared hub motor.... Which would put a bigger smile on your face? 😀
I don't know many motors suitable for mountain bikes that are 72v from the factory without expensive aftermarket controllers....
Any idea where i can buy the 750c. 72v display with the correctt plug for HV harnness kit i bought from high voltage ? Any help would be really good
Planning to add a 48 volt battery with my 36 volt. What are the pitfalls of just wiring them in series?
So how.many amps should be looking when searching for a 72volt battery
You really need to be careful what you say.
At 6:21
You say higher voltage battery’s are more power and energy dense. That’s just wrong.
Power and energy density only depend on the Type of cells and amount of cells not the pack voltage.
Using the same cell a 10s4p (36V) has the same power and energy as a 20s2p (72V) because they both have 40 cells.
If you run the 10s with a 20kv motor and the 20s with a 10kv motor you will have pretty much identical performance and range.
Additionally the motor heat explanation is also very simplified to to point where is effectively wrong. Yes more current in the motor increases heat. But if you increase the battery voltage you motor still needs the same current. Current is directly proportional to torque. You only gain top speed. So no efficiency increase. Battery current to the esc is lower but motor current stays the same.
If you really wanted lower current you would also need to change to a lower KV more so you get more torque for the same current. But lower KV motors also have increased internal resistance you the heat comes back indirectly because they heat up more for the same current.
You see it’s all much harder than it seems. You are still at the very start of your journey 😉
@@blise518B chii dawg
@@luchi767 He's right.
Like how you broke it down
I like trying to figure out where these rides are from trying to pick up on things people show in the video but unfortunately on my tiny little phone it’s very hard to even discern the name of anything with a screenshot, so this is the town of Summit where might that be, thanks for the recap
How about the longevity of the battery?
Great info.. looking at engwe x26 but want more power for hills. Would I have to switch everything on it or just component? It has 2 huge battery packs but only goes 33mph.. looking for 40 to 50. I Also want to keep the original mag wheels if possible. Thanks man... I really want this particular bike
. I know the wired freedom has power I need but don't like style...
dope vids bro can we see a top speed run on the Crooked?
Anyone know what kind bije frame does he have
Hi great content! new sub here !! i have a question ? they re is no expert ebike in my city .. i have a yolin 1000w dual 48v 22 amp battery .. and i bough another big tank 52 v 30 amp to put on top .. didnt install yet.. can i run all three battery on my 48 v 26 amp controller ..of course not at the same time i have switch on\off on both of my 48 V battery ..is this possible ??!
Yes
Volts really control the rpm
What would be better 48v 25ah or 52v 17ah??
If "better" means total capacity just multiply the numbers together.
A higher voltage system will be a bit faster.
Its all about the controller the bigger you go the better you go 52 volt battery is fine but you need a 3000 watt hub with a 96 volt controller an youll be doing 50mph easy
What does the wattage of the controller mean and do for the ebike itself? My folding ebike has a small controller for a 750watt motor
Controller size is related to number of MOSFETs and current capacity. My daughter has a controller the side of a wallet to handle 15 amps max and her bike tops out at 22 mph at 36 volts. My 3,000 watt 72v controller is the size of a brick and can run 60 amps continuous at 50 mph.
@@marthamryglod291 Would you be able to advise where/what battery your purchased, got a e-bike 3000w 72v hub with 80a controller coming, confused with regards to what battery is needed. Thank you.
@@financiallyfree I recommend getting the largest triangle battery that will fit your frame. The UPP 72v 20ah battery is good too. I have two of those. Get the best cells you can. I built myself a 20s5p pack with Samsung 40t 21700 cells and it outperforms all the triangle battery packs I have.
@@financiallyfree oh and also make sure the connectors match from the controller to the battery. I recommend xt90 anti-spark. They can handle 90 amps continuous.
@@marthamryglod291 Thank you Martha, saved me hours of research for that one topic. Appreciate it!! 👍👍👍
Question! Is a high voltage (let’s say 80v) battery with a low amp rating (let’s say 2 amps) will be bad for a 3000 watt motor?
Can a 45 amp controller do well with this setup or do you need a higher amp battery for this to do well?
I have a Green Works 80v maybe 2 or 4 amp battery but a 3000 watt motor and 45amp controller. Is this a recipe for disaster?
Everytime i try to put 72v into my motor it goes our of the fork idk why.I have to use 48v as much
❤hi great Chanel!
Just a quick question to you or community? I a bafang bbshd set up with 40v 20ah. How do i know how much Voltage i can put on the motor for example its hard sometimes to put a 20ah battery onto some bikes but what i would like to do is set up 2x36 v batteries. Is this possible or is there a voltage ⚡️ that is too much for current to start reacting in non beneficial ways.
Obligatory algorithm comment.
and why you dont use 2 36v serial connected
What has a greater effect on top speed? Is it motor wattage or battery voltage?
Whatever watt rating the motor is, higher voltage will result in faster speeds. You can’t really compare those two factors against each other as a general rule, it really comes down to what type of motor it is, what configuration it’s in and your specific use case.
How fast is your current bike?
My controller is 60amps. But most 72v battery's I see are rated with a 50a bms. Would I still be able to use it??
You'd need a higher BMS amp than the controller the BMS should be able to give the controller more amps than asked. 70+amps
What helmet is that?
With your old bike with the 72v did it eat into the drop outside at all? I saw a little silver fraying when I changed the tire and took the hub out, but I can't tell if it's normal or not. Thanks!
that can happen even with regular wheels and quick release if tightened too much. as long as its not insane wear on the inside of the dropouts where the axle meets the frame, i'd say you dont have much to worry about! just make sure to use torque arms
@@Matapatpat
Thanks! I do tighten them very tight. I also use a torque arm.
@@hank_Reardon yeah man, I'd say you're fine. if you're worried and seem to have a bit more of a "gap" between the axle & the dropouts, I've heard of people shimming it with pieces of aluminum! either sheeting or just soda cans cut & folded to fill the gaps. it should be a snug fit, if its not, I would fill the gaps!
@@Matapatpat I actually thought of that, but then said to myself that's too ridiculous to work. Nice to know I was on the right track.
@@hank_Reardon i wouldnt RELY on it if there's a lot of play, but between torque arms & clamping pressure, I don't see an issue in giving yourself more meat to burn thru! take care & happy riding :)
Yes they are worth
36 48. 52 are the most common voltage used in most bike motor hubs and mid drive probably 90%
84v 100.8v are definitely worth it
60v is a beast. My 60v scooter tops at 50mph with dirt bike level torque. 72v isn't necessary...
Is a 3000watt 72v40ah e-bike considered fast as far as speed?
If you're looking for fast then just look at the watts. 3000 watts (4 hp) is a decent power output, probably considered pretty fast, depending on the weight of the e-bike. I'm not an expert but 72v with a 3 kW motor means about 42 amps drawn. So basically at max throttle, you could go about an hour on the battery. There's obviously more to that like weight, wind, etc. I bet you could get 40-50 mi to a charge riding moderately and 50+mph top speed.
What is the build you're riding in this video?
checkout my recent video on 60 volt ebike conversion for more info!
How fast can you go on your bike? I have an AR D-class. It's pretty fast with a 48 volt battery. Thank you!
Personally, when going with high voltage builds(>=60V), and want high efficiency, I just limit the current itself.
How fast are you going? Geez. I want one
For me I find 48 volt 20+ ah 1500 watt battery does a fine job of giving me life threatening speeds, butt bruising long powerful ride. But too found that 36 volt battery with the same specs 36v 20+ah 1000 watt , can perform just as nice as the higher volt batteries but is far smaller and lighter so makes for great commuter bike builds and even cruisers. My wife's bike is a Long beach cruiser with a 36 volt 1000 watt system violamart direct drive system and mine is a 48 v 1000w she can give me a run for my money on the flats but the extra 12 volt show when we climb hills. Using a 750 watt planetary geared hub drive a 36 volt battery is a great combination of power, range and weight. When you want big power remember it comes at a price, I have torqued to death some frames with over powered systems and come to understand that bicycles do have their limits. And they don't handle the same with added weight and speed.
I ride a 27.5" hard tail conversion, using a 52V 24ah battery, on a 40A controller and a 1500W rear hub drive.
The battery cost me £375, and the motor kit cost me £340.
I've updated both disc brakes to 180mm SRAM discs and hydraulic Shimano brakes.
I've removed the front 3 sprockets and replaced with a single chainstay sprocket with titanium cranks and wider stam pedals.
I've rebuilt and respoked the rear rim, and resolved the front rim with a double wall rim and uprated the tyres to 2.80" Johnny watts tyres.
Also added SKS Fatboy mudguards ,
SKS rockshields, a wide comfort saddle, a wideboy handlebar bag and a 30 inch motorcycle windshield, and the absolutely vital twin mirrors.
I wired a 12V twin LED headlight to the controller, and a twin rear light with turn signals and a horn.
It gets some funny looks at times,
Voltage sag on 72V 14.4ah will be more noticeable than on 48v 25ah. For mid-drive motor like CYC X1 STEALTH you do not need more than 48v battery.
Add a 72 volts battery ,second battery use a battery blender .
I wanted to DIY a 72v for my bike but all the bms I see are from china and look sketchy as fuck. And the thing about products from china are either they are good or they fail explosively. SO i think i'm settling for a diy 52v battery for now
What about the amount of amps the battery discharges? I bought a 60 volt 50 amp battery rather than a 72 volt 40 amp battery as I was happy with the top speed, but needed more torque and push going uphill. Do you think the 72 volt with less amp discharge would have been a better choice?
Battery amps depends on how many controller amps you are using. If you are using a 35 amp controller you want your battery amps 40+amps or more. 35 or less you will have lots of voltage sag and less power. 50 amp vs 40 amp the 50 amp will be better.
Why not a 72v 60amp?🎉
@@andyfumo8931 the only choices were 60 volt 50 amp or 72 volt 40 amp.
Though these things seem like a nice cheap altertantive to your car during the warmer months these things still run on batteries. As such, the batteries capacity will diminish over time and by the time you need/want to replace it the company wont be producing that bikes batteries model forcing you to buy a new one or be left with a 50lbs bike. Seems nice until you take that particular aspect into consideration.
No mention of torque means this is usless for people who want to climb hills.
Higher voltage generally gives more speed and acceleration but the build has to be able to handle that power safely which most bikes wont .
48v is enough for reasonable acceleration and top speeds that are safer and more legal lol.
However I do intend to build one with more power sometime..
This was very helpful. Thanks a bunch!
How many volts is enough? As long as I can go ludicrous speed! ;)
If you already haven't covered it, how about building a battery?
He could buy the supplies to build a battery like I could or you could...there are enough books and on line tutorials how to do it but, building batteries is kind of like knitting for men. If you want an analogy in the bike business, battery building is like wheel building. Only a very small percent of bike builders lace and true their own wheels. Much more expedient to simply buy them and not that much more expensive. Battery and wheel building is very 'labor intensive'.
Now, repairing a battery is a bird of another feather. I just had to to repair a new battery I ordered through Amazon from China. I asked them to exchange the battery and they started asking me questions and I obliged them and they asked if I was technical and I said I was and so they coached me on troubleshooting the battery and it was determined to be a faulty BMS. They sent me a new one, I installed it and the battery is now flawless.
Those are my thoughts. What you want to do is learn what you want in a battery in terms of:
How many cells in series X cells in parallel for total no. of cells.
What type of cells, model and name brand
What type of BMS and amperage rating....a Smart BMS with bluetooth or basic BMS.
Understanding battery tech goes a long way to getting the right battery for the bike to match the controller and motor. You don't have to make the battery.
What is your motor voltage rating on the bike you rode with the 60 volt battery?
Higher voltage battery doesn’t improve the “pep” at low speed the voltage to the motor is very low anyway. Phase current from the controller and motor characteristics are all that matter.
I find 52 is plenty. More volts equal less range.
Gee I thought you were going to talk about the bikes not voltage...
I don't accept opinions just reasonable proof.
You're to be punished for your math lecture.
The whole voltage thing is nonsense.
I'm so annoyed i clicked on this guys video smh
Ebikes will be illegal because of the carbon footprint tax just wait till the rolling blackouts
🤣
Cool. This ebike channel includes talk radio from Dallas. Nice J.R. Ewing impression. Can you do Rush Limbaugh next?
Anything over 48v is only useful if your building from scratch
Seriously 😳 dude! You young guys ride too fast 💨 for an ebike which makes e-bikes dangerous. Your ebike weighs over or close to 100 lbs making it very dangerous if you hit someone or their property. Serious regulations are coming just because of you brain 🧠 dead ☠️ ebike riders.
I have an ebike it weighs 92 lbs and yes I know how dangerous it can be because it runs at or about 25 to 31 miles per hour.
Be safe, considerate and careful.
I've buyed a battery 84v 120A rms for my eletric scooter of 40kg😂
The bigger the 🔋 the bigger the 🔥🧯