The Issue with Marvel's Multiverse

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  • Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024

Комментарии • 39

  • @Trench-coat
    @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

    Thoughts on the state of the MCU and the Multiverse? Let me know down in the comments!

  • @tadeasburger8191
    @tadeasburger8191 Месяц назад +3

    I think that under very specific circumstances and with good care, the concept of a muliverse can yield a good and even thought provoking story. That said, the MCU did not even make an attempt at doing that.
    Instead they treat the multiverse as a device to fully dedicate their films to a pretty shallow meta winks at the audience. You are no longer expected to watch the films because of the story, to see how the lore unravels or how the characters deal with problems and grow. You are supposed to go to the cinema because Disney managed to cast this or that actor, either because it was a popular fan cast, or because he was in an old, pre-MCU superhero film (sometimes even a film everyone used to make fun of).
    At this point, MCU movies feel more like a reality show played at the level of casting agents than an actual narrative.
    We are pretty lucky the Infinity saga turned out as good as it did.

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад +1

      Such a spot on summary of the problem with the MCU. It’s no longer about good characters or intricate interwoven storylines - its about the best fan cast. Like the recent reveal that RDJ is doing Doctor Doom. Like are you telling me there wasn’t one other actor that could do him justice? They did it cause RDJ gets people in seats with nostalgia. Don’t get me wrong cause I think he will do an amazing job but it’s just so typical MCU to bring back a beloved actor because your franchise is struggling. Anyways - I obviously hope its good and I do want them to succeed so let’s see. Thanks for the insightful comment 🙌🏻

    • @theanatomyoffilmandcinema
      @theanatomyoffilmandcinema Месяц назад

      The Spiderverse films are doing the multiverse stuff really well, same with Everything Everywhere All At Once. It is possible, but MCU isn’t doing it great

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      @@theanatomyoffilmandcinema Agreed!

  • @Protofall
    @Protofall Месяц назад

    Multiverses are such an easy way to make me not care about something. Endless possibilities, but limited creativity. This is why the restrictions we put in stories matter.

  • @metaphoric9479
    @metaphoric9479 Месяц назад +1

    Spot on. The multiverse makes it less emotional, there are less stakes. Hoping for some good films in the future though.

  • @TheGoldenPlatoon757
    @TheGoldenPlatoon757 Месяц назад +3

    Truth, I thought I was the only person who slightly didn't give a shit about this film, lmfao! 💯

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад +1

      @@TheGoldenPlatoon757 welcome to the club bro lol

  • @theanatomyoffilmandcinema
    @theanatomyoffilmandcinema Месяц назад

    A big theory I have of why it seems harder and harder to care about this franchise besides the dwindling quality and excess of content is simply that, well, they haven’t given us a reason to care about the future. They promise that everything will add up and we will get greatness with Secret Wars, but you have to consider the journey is just as important, if not more, than the destination. They have been simply green lighting as many projects as they can, not giving a crap if anything will tie into a larger narrative. Nothing feels cohesive, instead we just have so many dangling plot threads. The earlier days were great as we kept seeing characters throughout different films, watching them evolve and grow. Now, while we have a ton of characters, we haven’t seen them across multiple films in this new saga. It hasn’t really been a saga where we see heroes go on a journey spanning several filmed instead it’s been a hodgepodge of random projects. In Phase 1, Avengers tied everything together. In Phase 2, Captain America Winter soldier and Age of Ultron had our team continue on, facing new struggles. We don’t even know who the Avengers are at this point!

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад +1

      Such a great point! Marvel forgot about the journey because they just want the destination (Secret Wars). I want them to succeed but at this point it just feels like they don't know what makes a good character film anymore. Literally are we going to have the avengers assemble after only having one Shangi Chi film? Ridiculous. How are we supposed to even care... Thanks for the comment! Loved your points - hope to see you in future comment sections.

    • @theanatomyoffilmandcinema
      @theanatomyoffilmandcinema Месяц назад

      @@Trench-coat of course. Just subbed :)

  • @florisb3089
    @florisb3089 Месяц назад +2

    Fantastic video again! Think some other franchises can also struggle with their identity after one of their behemoth movies has had really high stakes

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад +1

      Yeah it's a tough situation. I think the best way to handle it is to make the stakes smaller and more personal so that we care about the people behind the capes again. Thanks for the comment and for watching!

  • @sundeshbalraj
    @sundeshbalraj Месяц назад

    Enjoy the high quality of your content and the thought you put into your narrative

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      I appreciate this comment so much! Thank you. Glad to have you here - see you in future videos!

  • @Vejita12
    @Vejita12 Месяц назад

    As much as I do not like she-hulk, the marvels, Secret Invasion, Cloak and Dagger I don't think this was thought through.
    I also have seen D&W so I have a bigger perspective, since it was a multiversal one.
    Spiderman creators wanted to artificially create an "end game" moment.. whaaa?
    ..says you, never corssed my mind that it was supposed to be grand in that way, since it was clearly a Peter moment when the words about power and responsibility actually sink in.
    I would call that a character moment and a damn good one at that.
    That is THE moment when Peter Parker becomes Spider-man, THE DEFINING Spider moment, so what are you talking about?
    They did not throw away the legacy movies, they did not even gave them a shoutout, they incorporated the characters and their stories into the current MCU and they did it while remaining respectful to the source material and the movies, while not showing us the same scene of uncle Ben dying for the Nth time.
    Where is the bad part?
    "Where do you go from here when you've exhausted all the possibilites.."
    ..again, whaaa?
    Wherever a LIMITLESS human imagination takes you, the simple fact that you think that all the possibilites were exhausted is a big red flag about this video.
    Nothing was exhausted and if you think about it just a little bit, for a little while a new world of possibilites have just been discovered.
    Loki is another example of a very good character arc, from a selfish God of Mischeif to the selfless God of Stories.
    I'd argue that Loki series is the best thing MCU cerated, a movie or a series and alongside Rocket's the best character arc in the whole MCU.
    Not only Loki gets a proper ending though, people have come to like Mobius, B15, O.B. just to name a few and Renslayer is established as a formidible anti-villain.
    Where is the bad part?
    WandaVision is also very good, besides a few things. Start of Wanda's mental problems after the loss of Visiona and the snap, Vision comes back as a white (yellow in the comics) one. New characters enter the scene without another boring origin story, not only Monica, I mean the boys.
    Wanda is established as a threat, shame they did not have the balls to keep to it, because we were so close to the House of M story, a big shame imho.
    Kind of like they killed World War Hulk by making it a joke, a bigger shame imho. :P
    Moon Knight has some real problems, mostly the tone, but it wasn't terrible, you wanna see a terrible show, watch she-hulk (I'm joking, don't!).
    Cloak and Dagger is not bad, just boring.
    There is one point I agree with 100%.
    The good MCU movies after the infinity saga were the ones that focused on their main or a title character(s) - Spiderman, Loki, WandaVision, Deadpool, I will include Ant-Man, even though in Quantumania Scott didn't feel as a MC, but the movie title includes "Antman and Wasp" and there are two Ant-men and Wasps and the story revolved around them and I enojeyd it for the most part.
    I think the problem is different, it's not that there are a lot of verses within a lore, the problem is there are over 30 movies in reality now and all of them create a part of the lore so you need to know all of them very, very well to not make major mistakes (some mistakes will happen), because one line can change a lot of things. Like the fact that Janet has a problem with sending signals to QR all of a sudden, but didn't have one when they sent Scott there before the snap, D&W established a phone line between TVA and the void, which was stupid and lazy at the same time.
    You cannot alter any character through other dimension, it's a different character. Nexus event creates a whole new timeline.
    Logan from "Logan" is dead, he will not come back. Loki from the sacred timeline is dead, the current God of Stories Loki was always a variant, a nexus being who's actions created a branch that would grow beyond the red line if not pruned, thus he was arrested by B15's team.
    Deadpool and Wolverine also established that one cannot change events in any timeline at will. They cannot change Logan Universe's history, it is also heavily implied that Avengers, Deadpool or Summers' time trips within a branch are lesser evils compared to the alternatives, even though they also create nexus events.
    Entire universes are at stake now, I'd say those are higher not just one or two planets. Every life form on every planet vanishes from existence along with a planet and space and time.
    In fact characters like Deadpools or Woverines need that kind of motivation, they do selfless deeds for selfish reasons.
    You need to know all of the above and many more to write a solid MCU screenplay at the moment.
    One last thing, just to be sure we are on the same page.
    You do realize that multiverse, Kangs, He Who Remains, multiversal wars, TVA, timelines, ouitside of time, Alioth are all canon?
    Marvel studios did not invent any of that.
    Remember in the Age of Ultron when Banner says to Stark that he feels as if he lived in a loop? Back then there was just the Sacred timeline which was a loop.
    Yes, it seems the idea is at least that old and the Multiverse was always a destination.
    This video from the very begining sounded to me like "it wasn't as good as my favourite movie so it's all bad".
    You claim you "wanted more grounded stories.." and yet you come back to infinity saga over and over again "I got end game levels of excitement".
    So which one is it?
    Marvel aside.
    They have to revive the dead characters because people do not watch the new ones. Why do you think they revived Ripley in the Alien Ressurection, because they figured people would not watch a new MC and knowing what I know now I would bet a lot of money that they were right.
    And 25 years later "shit, here we go again.." same shit different day. :/
    A new term, the "anchor being" shows that they know the problem, I think.. I hope.
    It's a meta-comment that people watch movies because of certain characters (or actors), so when that character is no longer a part of a frenchise, cause of reasons, people loose intrest over time.
    Mr. Paradox's motives in the movie kind of reflects exactly the choice the creators of the movie had, let the old movies "die" a natural death, meaning let people forget about them, or kill those stories now (for example by pruning them, let Mr. Paradox "win") and begin anew.. it also seems that Deadpool was a pivotal one in that regard and the ending suggests they saved at least some parts of the legacy. :P

    • @THAT_GAMING_GUY-2
      @THAT_GAMING_GUY-2 Месяц назад +1

      What are you planning on calling your book

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      ok

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      😂😂😂

    • @Protofall
      @Protofall Месяц назад

      I'm not going to read that whole wall of text, but I want to comment on this part
      > [In No Way Home] they incorporated the characters and their stories into the current MCU and they did it while remaining respectful to the source material and the movies
      I don't really agree with this. Specifically for Norman / Goblin, Doc Ock and Flint Marco / Sand Man (Not commenting on the other 2, since I don't know the "Amazing Spiderman" films well). Tom Holland's Peter's mission was to cure the 5 stranded villains, to save them. He does this by either forcefully removing their abilities, or putting the inhibitor chip on Doc Ock. If you'd never seen the original Trilogy, or forgot the details of those films then this would seem fine, but Holland's Spiderman dealt with these villains in a way that robs the victory of the original films.
      In the original trilogy, Norman had a darkness before taking the serum. What the serum actually did was manifest Norman's wrath and pride into it's own being, the Goblin, as well as a strength buff of course. Whereas NWH presents Norman as a helpless, innocent man whose being taken for a ride by the Goblin.
      Similarly for Otto Octavious, he was "good" in the beginning, but even before the inhibitor chip broke he showed arrogance and risk taking. When the chip broke, the tendrils decided to make Otto give into his desires. Otto at first argues with them, that its wrong, but they use his desire to complete the machine to get him to do what they want. In NWH there's no sign of this. Otto gets a new inhibitor chip then acts like he wasn't acting in his right mind, like he was fully controlled by the tendrils. This moment inparticular is a big gripe for me, because it robs his redemption in the original trilogy. Back then, he never got a 2nd inhibitor chip. Instead Maguire Spiderman was pinned and about to die, but he reminded Otto of the advice he gave to Peter earlier, and convinces Otto that what he's doing is wrong. Otto snaps out of it, the tendrils try to tell him what to do but Otto fights it, without an inhibitor chip and then makes the ultimate sacrifice.
      And for Flint Marco, I don't get why he needed to be "cured" at all. At the end of the original trilogy he was forgiven by Maguire Spiderman which relieved him of the massive guilt he carried. He leaves, and the feeling I got was that he was a changed man. In NWH he initially sides with Holland Spiderman (Thinking he's Maguire), then turns on him for some reason after Goblin's speech. Marco never wanted power though, he just wanted to go home. Fighting Spiderman doesn't help achieve those goals.
      In short, if you never watched the original films, then NWH looks really good. And it does have good callbacks like continuing Garfield Spiderman's arc by saving MJ. But as it stands, I have to say that NWH is not my favourite Holland Spiderman film (That goes to Homecoming).

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      @@Protofall spot on… you explained exactly why I feel the way I feel…Thank you!!! The recent reveal of RDJ as doctor doom just cements my point. They are just nostalgia baiting without truly respecting what came before. They care about seats in the cinema so they will revive dead characters or characters that already achieved full character development for a cool action scene or trailer moment…

  • @knullify_
    @knullify_ Месяц назад

    Woo new Trenchcoat video !

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      Hehe thank you for watching!!!!! Got any thoughts on the state of MCU? Gonna watch deadpool and wolverine?

    • @knullify_
      @knullify_ Месяц назад

      @@Trench-coat prolly similar marvel view, watched a few movies like dr strange , black panther after endgame .. but was disappointed. Didn’t watch any show or movie after that but might watch this one for the hell of it cus deadpool is a fun character to watch regardless.

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      @@knullify_ haha yeah I am gonna watch deadpool and wolverine for the lol’s. It should be a good time! Haven’t been to the cinema in ages so I am kinda excited to have a good reason to go again!

  • @chrismorel2576
    @chrismorel2576 Месяц назад +1

    Endgame should have been the end of its saga. The narrative arcs had reached their end but the world still lived due to their sacrifice.
    If that sacrifice was all that was left of the characters, the narrative stakes would be higher than any end of the world event. The possibility of damaging the legacy of Tony Stark has greater stakes (to me as the audience) than the possibility of destroying the world.
    It would be like disgracing the memory of a respected grandparent, which is pretty high stakes from a character perspective.
    The multiverse an idea has the potential to be character driven, as shown in the Spiderverse. The sci-fi situation is really a backdrop for a young man trying to eatablish his independence and find his place in the world when it seems like he doesn't belong in it. I can empathize with Miles Morales for that reason.
    Especially because the Spiderverse represents the different versions of the characters as being so unique that the different universes feel more like different countries or different planets.
    I grew up with the Marvel characters as a kid, I hummed the Iron Man theme with a sense of pride alongside my friends. I could have continued to grow with Marvel as an adult but none of the Marvel shows on Disney plus appeal to me and the movies don't have characters that I want to root for.
    I'd like to have an icon; someone to root for and feel pride with their achievements. I've found some of it on RUclips, some of it in Anime, but none of it in recent blockbuster movies

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад

      Wow man! You explained it so well and I can truly sympathise. Marvel used to be such a pivotal part of my life and now it feels like a distant memory. Thanks so much for your insightful comment and thanks for watching!

  • @jarrodedson5441
    @jarrodedson5441 Месяц назад

    The multiverse saga has been the worse

  • @itsnick5082
    @itsnick5082 Месяц назад +1

    Who is "we"? You are beyond wrong and the MCU is not meaningless. Many people, including me, still care

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад +2

      Maybe watch the video before commenting

    • @Trench-coat
      @Trench-coat  Месяц назад +2

      Title clearly says “Why I” and I think I have a good reason to feel the way I feel 😊 glad you are still enjoying it though!

    • @theanatomyoffilmandcinema
      @theanatomyoffilmandcinema Месяц назад

      I know a lot of people who still get excited and care about this world, that’s awesome! It’s just that for others (including myself), this franchise hasn’t been really giving me a good reason to keep coming back for every new film and tv show, with a few exceptions

    • @rzn2258
      @rzn2258 25 дней назад

      Because your either Young or a M0R0N