It's crazy I can't remember a single line of any of the sequels, yet I can *almost* recite word-for-word the entire seciton starting at 08:21, although it's now been over 20 years since I've last played this game.
@@RegalitiesFarseer Absolutely. Not beaten, okay well I *DID* beat TIE fighter's base campaign but the Zaarin expansion pack difficulty spike hardstopped me. As did the spacetrooper defense mission in XWA.
That was one of my favorite aspects of MotS. I absolutely loved the X-Wing Series, even X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. Using not only the same ship types known from these games, but basically the same models and textures as seen in XWvsTIE (at least so it appeared to me) game the game such a sense of continuity and integration into this universe.
Never knew about the hidden level, so this was all new to me. Used to obsess over this game and JK back in the day, so this was a fun trip down memory lane. I'm very hopeful that, with a remaster of Dark Forces, that we may get a remaster of JK and this game as well down the road.
Just a few thoughts on how to deal with fans who don't know the EU. I love the Thrawn trilogy. It could use some influences from the prequels to round out the story a bit. But our heroes will be continued in a worthy manner. To talk about the Ysalamiri in reviews like this one and to exclude younger viewers directly with a side-swipe is simply the wrong way to go. Younger SW fans even those who think Ray is cool (for whatever reason) could get connected to the EU with a little help. Otherwise like the other Jedi Knight reviews, this is a fantastically executed and narratively pared down to a super entertaining length. Really really great!
@@DeicideBlues Well the writers behind it are to blame. The new trilogy has no unified vision. And you can see that most clearly in Rey. In episode 8 she beats Luke up with her staff. Flat and inconsistent dialogue runs through her character in particular. But I'm certainly not going to write any more about it in a comment on RUclips. The point was rather that the EU simply had some better stories that could have been used as a starting point. If anyone likes the new SW films. Okay. But introducing them to the EU would also be cool. That was my point.
I remeber the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight series super fondly. I remember them being so fun and were honestly my favorite Star Wars games up until the first Knights of the Old Republic. Its neat seeing this honest retrospective that shows how good the games were and also the flaws that i have mentally painted over with nostalgia or was just willing to endure because Star Wars! Lol
George actually didn't hate Mara the character at all. Michael A Stackpole confirmed it was just a false rumor in an interview from 2020. What Lucas didn't like was the model thing they did with Shannon Mcrandle, the real-life model they hired to portray her. George apparently thought using a model to represent a character that looked like she came out of Cosmopolitan magazine wasn't very Star Wars. I did a vid on my channel covering this.
I think Shannon did a great job. And was certainly better than using Stackpole himself for Corran Horn. (Zahn fit fine as Talon Karrde, Stackpole should have been Hal Horn or Rostek Horn)
Was eagerly awaiting this video. I grew up with DF2 but never got to play this as a kid. So seeing you give it the in depth video essay treatment makes me so happy.
I also remember having demo of this game as just a little kid and playing it again and again, loving it and hoping there will be more, but never got to play it whole. I think I am fulfilled by your review 😄
I can understand your views being as they are in the context of today. As someone who got this back on original release, it was just an awesome continuation from a great game, and it was thrilling to have such an expansion out so soon after the main game. Multiplayer was also a blast, spent many hours back in the day on MSN gaming zone, playing clan wars for the Imperial Ground Forces (IGF). Great mod back in the day was the SBX one, that took lightsabers to the next level, better than what you even get in Jedi Outcast.
Oh this is a good game (expansion techically yes I know,) I first played this as a 3 level demo discussion, and eventually got the full game as a kid, loved it. Not many people talk about this game. I loved the first map that seemed like an epic battle with lots of allies. Can't wait to watch this!
I love the idea of giving expansion packs their own video! Especially when the creator in question does excellent work. Personally, I realized a few years ago when I really wanted to play Quake, but played it to death and was familiar with both the PC and N64 versions too much, that I should check out the expansions instead. Get the authentic experience (made _at the time_ with _those design sensibilities_ versus modern indie boomer shooters seeking to rediscover or imitate such things), but in a fresh package. Lo and behold, Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity _were _*_awesome_* and I kinda kicked myself for ignoring/forgetting them for so long. This was before NightDive and Machine Games went and did the Anniversary remaster too, which gave us the also awesome Dimension of the Machine missions. Great expansion packs are ABSOLUTELY WORTHY of their own videos, and one I actually did play back in the day was Mysteries of the Sith. Watching this now reminds me that I really should _re-play_ it though, because apparently I forgot a lot, lol. I know it's good, but I didn't have specifics and this was a great overview of the thing. Man, I hope NightDive gives Jedi Knight a remaster after they get their Dark Forces one out the door in, like, a week from my writing this. *fingers crossed
Absolutely loving your videos. Your narration and editing are fantastic, and your passion for these games really shine through. Thank you for taking me back to a time when I still loved Star Wars.
And not jsut the ones we know like TIEs and Y-Wings, but ships like the R-41 Starchaser and Cygnus Spaceworks Alpha-Class Xg-1 "Star-Wing" Assault Gunboat.
It was nerdgasmic walking on Dromund Kaas in TOR after that game. As for level design I remeber looking at least twice for guides running whole level for several hours looking for way forward. Hutt pallace and final jungle where you have to find some crack in ruined village hidded behind the tree to proceed. They not only pulled Mara out of Thrawn books. They got Noghri, Ysalamiri, Vorskrs and every single one was used as random mob without consideration for their place in lore. Like make level on Myrkr if you want to use them.
If memory serves me correctly, the original PC release of this game had the secret Bespin level where you actually did fight Darth Vader. I still have it, might see if I can get it working to check.
Such a fantastic game I swear no one else I know has played. Really appreciated the memories and the deep dive. I agree about the level design especially the with temple which I spent what felt like days lost in it. On balance though I also feel like many games today give away too much and at least you had some satisfaction in finally figuring out the solutions here. I miss the days of the EU, just seeing all of the ships, characters and references in this game just really links JK and DF to the wider Star Wars world including the novels. I miss these days where Star Wars felt like something alive to be discovered. And having to turn off your sabre at the end…..what a twist!
As someone who only played Jedi Outcast and Academy, it’s been a blast watching these reviews, and they’ve convinced me to try out this series from the start (altho I’m waiting for the xbox port of DF to start). I think you’ll really like Jedi Outcast!
24:22 George and his concept artists working on original drafts of RotJ DID come up with the imperial capital city world of _Had Abadon_ however. Coruscant was just a less biblical apocalypse name for it.
ive been loving your restospectives and this one was the one I was the most interested in, I never had dark forces 1 and 2, but I did have mystery of the sith and played it religiously
I played this game so much as a kid, it was crazy. One of my all time favorites. In my opinion, it was just as good, if not better than the main game. 10/10 perfect!
I don't know if anyone in the comments told you about it already, but the sniper rifle is inside this little building at 13:30. And this entire section at 13:48 can be done by taking sniper position here 12:55 and snipe down everyone. I actually prefer this method instead of running in with guns blazing.
Basically yeah, though it's unclear if the Mara levels are during or after Dark Empire itself, the Kyle missions are at the start of the imperial offensive, before the fall of Coruscant.
Another pure joy indeapth dark forces video. Amazing work on covering the game and all the eu tie ins. I really hope you continue with the jedi outcast series, and maybe one day, how bout KOTOR? Im only asking since yours is the best format out there rn.
Imperial City World was something he'd floated for RotJ before settling on the DS2 and endor, plenty of the early art of Coruscant started as concept art of *_Had Abbadon_* which was the original draft name.
@@DIEGhostfish not gonna lie, Had Abaddon is a badass name, but probably not a good one for a capitol city. Maybe a dark side temple or fortress. Loads better than Palpatine's original name. _Cos Dashit._
I like MotS and feel it's definitely underrated and gets looked over in the series because it's an "expansion pack". I love that both Kyle and Mara are in it, and you can play as both. I agree about the level design. The levels can often be a bit tedious to navigate. I also miss the live action cutscenes, but that was probably to save money.
42:28 I don't now if this came before the Thrawn Trilogy Comic adaptation because the HTTE adaptation looked a lot like these giant ape guys, while the later comics looked more like how Nohgri looked in everything else.
This game was my first encounter with Mara, I wasn’t a big book/comic reader in the 90s. However, this game got me to buy the ‘Mara Jade: By the Emperor’s hand’ comic book
Oh the memories. I played the hell out of this game again and again back in the days. The story felt like a bunch of side missions and one relevant mission but Mara's character was well done and it was fun overall
While I have a thing for obtuse 90s level design I think your criticisms are pretty fair here. DF2 is one of my favorite games of all time, and it certainly hung together better both as a game and as a story, but MotS is a nice little addon if you just want more of that. Plus, I think some of the environmental puzzle mechanics were pretty innovative, and that colored lighting they kept talking about really helped dial up the atmosphere at the end of the game.
Interestingly enough, this went on while Rogue Squadron (commanded by Wedge Antilles) was on Mon Cala fighting off the World Devastators in Star Wars: Rogue Squadron. God bless Timothy Zahn. Only he was truly worthy of taking over Star Wars after GL.
35:29 It's got the SHAPE of a Corvette but I can assure you this ship is SIGNIFICANTLY too large to be a standard Corvette. The Fighter hangar bays alone preclude it.
Most people hate Masters if Teris Kasi but you could unlock Mara Jade. Which was awesome! Also i recieved this game in a pack with Tie Fighter, some windows based yoda game, dark forces and a few others. Never did play it as i had no computer at the time.
In ROTJ when luke meets vader on endor they are standing in the ATAT boarding hallway. The door that luke steps through when he is in cuffs is the ATAT side hatch. Later we see the walker walk away from this hallway into the forrest.
It’s crazy how similar my experience with this game was with yours. I played a TON of DF2JK, but only ever had the trial of this game. I tried to buy it but never could find it in stores back then which drove me crazy cause I always wanted to play it. But my PC actually had issues running the trial for it so idk if I could’ve even played it anyway lol. I was only able to play the very early parts of the game and the rest of this game was just a total “mystery” to me lol. I was able to play it completely through for the first time recently and it was fun, and I was so happy to finally experience it, but it did have some issues for me. I felt like this was a “where the f*** do I go?” kind of game. I had the same exact issues you had finding switches and keys and such. I also didn’t love the story and honestly your video made me understand the plot for the first time ever cause when playing it I just felt confused lol. I didn’t love the Katarn turning evil storyline, and I had no attachment to Mara Jade, so it just felt a bit blah to me. Having said that, this game is like getting to play more Jedi Knight, which is probably my most cherished childhood game of all, so I still really love it. My biggest regret is not owning it in the 90’s so I could play the multiplayer and all the mods and levels for it. I would’ve loved all that. I remember just browsing the levels/mods on the Massassi web site for MOTS and just thinking they must be so cool lol. Overall, I like this game, although it’s not perfect. I always felt like this game was so cryptic because they were attempting to make it more difficult than JK, but that’s a cheap and lazy way to increase difficulty and they should’ve done it differently. I also wish they would’ve included more lightsaber battles with bosses like JK had. I hated the creature enemies at the end and would have much preferred to fight sith or lightsaber wielding enemies. The difficulty spike for those creature enemies in the last levels was just ridiculous and it just makes you sprint past enemies instead of wanting to attempt fighting any. I also didn’t care for how dark everything was, especially in a cryptic game where you can easily miss the path you need to take. I think this game should’ve built on JK’s lightsaber battles more than it did. I’d pay any amount of money for a Jedi Knight remake/remaster, and it’d be amazing if MOTS was included in it also. This game looked so damn cool and its aesthetic is really dark and creepy, but the cryptic levels, lame enemies, and weak story drag the game down a bit overall. It’s still pretty cool though and I’m so glad and thankful that someone gave such an under-appreciated game this much attention. This was a great retrospective.
In the last bonus mission, in the original copy that I played back on windows 98, you do actually fight darth vader, the change on your end must be from the mod installed. But I do particularly remember the mission just popping up and playing it being amazed at that time
Thanks for the review. I played the demo countless times since 1999 before playing the actual game. But really the wide FOV makes it not easy to focus on what's actually on screen while it can also feel a little nauseous at times..
The Star Wars EU generation that filled the void between the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy really was a great time to be a Star Wars fan. Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith were perfect examples of this, and for the people growing up around that time, these games were as special as the movies to them. It's sad how all this material got put to the side, as it includes some of the best of Star Wars.
Kinda funny you mention selling strategy guides. As far as I know I haven't been able to find any official strategy guidebooks for Mysteries of the Sith
You are 100% on point with your mixed feelings across the whole game. I had the full expansion as a kid and, let me tell you, it was absolutely mind boggling as a child. The convoluted level design had me bashing my head against the wall trying to figure out how to progress through so much of the game... especially the "Sith" missions. Way too cool of an atmosphere for the pure BS level design. I'm pretty sure I only ever beat it because of cheats and guides. I've gone back and replayed the game in the past 5 or so years, and even with many, many, years of gaming knowledge and having actually beat them myself at one point... well, let's just say it's nearly as aggravating now as it was then. Oh well. Great retrospective, and you hit the dichotomy of the pack perfectly on the head. One of the best parts of this review is that you only ever played the demo disc in the past so you had zero clue just how freaking arduous actually beating this half-baked 4 month project ends up being. The more that I think about it the more that MoTS gives me Daikatana vibes. Still a really cool cross-media piece for the EU, I just don't think I'll ever play it again (until the potential full remaster mod comes out).
I tried playing this several times and could never get over the level design. I hated the hidden paths. I enjoyed Jedi Knight a lot and played it several times, but MotS just gave me a headache. I enjoyed seeing you play through it and your thoughts on it made me decide to not try it again. I am so excited for the next games in this series. I have been enjoying this trek down memory lane so much. You are doing such a great job!
Gotta ask something, having come straight from the Dark Forces II history and analysis video. Did Lucas Arts use the same assets from X-Wing, TIE Fighter, and X-Wing vs TIE Fighter games in DF2 and Mysteries of the Sith? They look the same to me and, nerd that I am, I get excited to see some of the supposedly niche starships (like the imperial missile boat) that didn't get outside the prototype phase...unless that lore has changed. Just like with Dark Forces II, thanks for the in depth assessment. I loved seeing Mara Jade and Kyle Kataran in the same title. Personally, I missed the morality system and multiple endings of the previous title (something which never seemed to come back in the Jedi Knight series IIRC) and - while I never had the navigation issues you suggest, I can understand the frustration, particularly if you're trying to find all the secret areas. Looking forward to more!
7:01 TO be specific this is ALSO before the Jedi Academy trilogy, and the FIRST missions as Kyle are actually in the leadup to the Dark Empire comics, when the Emperor's reunited warlords poured out to retake the galaxy. It has to be BEFORE the Evacuation from Coruscant short story which shows how the New Republic was driven off Coruscant between the end of the Thrawn Trilogy and beginning of the Dark Empire comics themselves. It's UNCLEAR however if the Mara missions are happening *During* Shadow Hand/Dark Empire, or in the reconstruction after the Cloned Emperor is defeated thrice.
I have a mod that replaces Dark Mara and Dark Kyle with Darth Vader in the Bespin mission. I don't remember where I got it (maybe at the Massassi Temple website?) but it makes a world of difference in bringing that authentic feel to the mission.
the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas in SWTOR was inspired by the Dark Force temple in this game. Some of the walls even have the purple swirls like in this game.
Always loved this game when it came out. Can't say i had any trouble with level design except for in level 2 with the cannon blowing itself up, i remember going to school and everyone had the same issue until a friend worked it out. I suppose I grew up playing lucasarts games and I always think they have a familiar feel between games so you get a feeling of where they will hide secrets and level paths.
1:02:11 wow speaking of fever dreams 😂😂😂 maybe this is why i started dreaming. I heard about mysteries of the sith but never this empire strikes back secret. COOL to learn about thanks for showing us
56:27 the way these games handled the original star wars music, the transitions and perfect cuts, and more importantly the music selection.. i love how the same style endured until Jedi academy, its a shame the rogue squadron series went for midi music
24:20. George didn't come up with the idea for Coruscant. But there is books that show paintings done by Ralph Mcquarrie of Coruscant that came out before the Timothy Zahn Trilogy. But RM died in 2012 and TZ wrote the thawn trilogy in 91 to 93
To come back at your comment in the beginning.. this is WHAT EXPANSION packs were back in the day, almost stand alone games.. and not the "shitty" very short DLC stuff we get today
Glad to hear someone point out disney hypocrisy! I don't really care to admire any female characters as close and personally as a main or playable character, but Mara Jade was someone I always enjoyed seeing around. A lot more than Leia actually. And she had a Purple Saber way before dumb Sam Jackson got one for his socio-politically-inspired request. You forgot the Droid Ballet Hall at Katraasi Spaceport. The Lumini pirates attacking the holocron ship were visibly commandeering either an imperial star destroyer or and Interdictor ship! The first appearance of Dromund Kaas!!! MotS has the problem of while attempting to be fan service it failed to be constantly cool. Dark Kyle with an Orange Saber is pure awesomeness. Mara Jade is nice. Dromund Kaas is pretty cool, also its swamps. Altyr V was pretty awesome. The Shrike is cool. Sith statues and dark dopplegangers are awesome. But most of the game has just utterly boring and bad levels, the asteroid bases, new republic corvette, and pirate locations are all damningly bad. Some of the locations just feel like cut or prototype setpieces for DFIIJK. And the game totally lacks an overarching story, and the boss battles feel empty. Lucasarts started out with DFIIJK to make the player feel like a Jedi in a game, but forgot to have such a clear cut aim with this expansion as the abilities themselves fall flat without a justifying story. Wait what? The last 3 missions might not succeed in justifying the title, but they sure as hell not the worst levels. In fact they are the best!
What do you mean socio-politically inspired request? Samuel Jackson wanted to see himself on screen in the big geonsois arena. So he asked for his lightsaber to be a different color.
WRONG. The "COLOR PURPLE" has some sort of significance to the blacks. No wonder even a movie is called the same way about them. It is no accident he wanted specifically a purple one.
Just throwing it out there for the remaster there is a one click exe just like for df2 that makes installing the mod super quick and easy. With that said love your videos thanks a lot!
Also, - technically - while Zahn came up with the name Coruscant, the Imperial City planet itself was always a Lucas creation. It was in the original draft of Return of the Jedi under a different name.
I played so much multiplayer in this game. It was so fun. Thank you for covering it! After you're done with the JK series would you consider doing TIE Fighter or X-Wing Alliance?
Ahh Mara Jade....such a great character. Rest in Peace
Kyle Katarn and Mara Jade teaming up was so hype for me. I adore both characters.
My man reviewing the quality stuff now. Might be in the minority here, but I loved being able to play with the lightsaber in first person.
You could do that in Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight too.
@@philipchurch8772 You could also do it on Jedi Outcast on the PC version, but strangely not in Jedi Academy, at least not without cheats.
Glad to see more retrospectives on the Jedi Knight series in this day and age.
"SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT MARA JADE!" - Civvie11
I'm kidding, I love Mara and miss her dearly.
Can’t wait for Jedi Outcast and Academy. By far the best Jedi knight games and my personal favorite Star Wars games (gameplay wise)
Nah. DF and JK+MotS are best. Outcast is good but Academy is just meh
Outcast and Academy have the best saber combat but I heavily prefer the level design of JK1, and I think the shooting is better in it too
Apparently the events of Mysteries of the Sith take place concurrently to the Dark Empire Trilogy, explaining where Mara is during those comics.
Remember when Lucasfilm cared about their sprawling canon and multimedia universe. Those were the days - before the dark times, before the Disney 🥲
@@-GeordieDan- They still care.
@@Tuskin38no they don't, so quit fucking lying for dumbass Disney/Lucasfilm!
@@-GeordieDan-I remember constantly asking myself why GL didn't consider passing on Star Wars over to Timothy Zahn, prior to selling it in 2012.
@@Tuskin38no they don't
It's crazy I can't remember a single line of any of the sequels, yet I can *almost* recite word-for-word the entire seciton starting at 08:21, although it's now been over 20 years since I've last played this game.
Because it was well written and iconic, shining despite its age. The sequels aren't memorable to me either.
30:23 Headhunter starfighter. 30:31 Starchaser starfighter. 35:14 T-Wing Interceptor and Interdictor ISD 38:57 Cygnus Spaceworks Alpha-class Xg-1 "Star Wing" Assault Gunboat 39:23 Loader Tugs. 39:45 Gamma-Class Assault Transport (Not to be confused with the Gamma-Class Assault Shuttle) 40:43 Delta class Dx-9 "Stormtrooper" Transport.
Someone has played their X-Wing/Tie games.
@@RegalitiesFarseer Absolutely. Not beaten, okay well I *DID* beat TIE fighter's base campaign but the Zaarin expansion pack difficulty spike hardstopped me. As did the spacetrooper defense mission in XWA.
That was one of my favorite aspects of MotS. I absolutely loved the X-Wing Series, even X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter. Using not only the same ship types known from these games, but basically the same models and textures as seen in XWvsTIE (at least so it appeared to me) game the game such a sense of continuity and integration into this universe.
I love how you make these videos about Star Wars games. You have a new fan (me)
Welcome!
not me immediately clicking on this without finishing the others
Same.
Never knew about the hidden level, so this was all new to me. Used to obsess over this game and JK back in the day, so this was a fun trip down memory lane. I'm very hopeful that, with a remaster of Dark Forces, that we may get a remaster of JK and this game as well down the road.
Just a few thoughts on how to deal with fans who don't know the EU.
I love the Thrawn trilogy. It could use some influences from the prequels to round out the story a bit. But our heroes will be continued in a worthy manner. To talk about the Ysalamiri in reviews like this one and to exclude younger viewers directly with a side-swipe is simply the wrong way to go. Younger SW fans even those who think Ray is cool (for whatever reason) could get connected to the EU with a little help.
Otherwise like the other Jedi Knight reviews, this is a fantastically executed and narratively pared down to a super entertaining length.
Really really great!
There’s plenty of reasons to think rey is cool especially for younger fans! It’s not her fault the trilogy was a mess!
@@DeicideBlues Well the writers behind it are to blame. The new trilogy has no unified vision. And you can see that most clearly in Rey. In episode 8 she beats Luke up with her staff. Flat and inconsistent dialogue runs through her character in particular. But I'm certainly not going to write any more about it in a comment on RUclips. The point was rather that the EU simply had some better stories that could have been used as a starting point. If anyone likes the new SW films. Okay. But introducing them to the EU would also be cool. That was my point.
I remeber the Dark Forces / Jedi Knight series super fondly. I remember them being so fun and were honestly my favorite Star Wars games up until the first Knights of the Old Republic.
Its neat seeing this honest retrospective that shows how good the games were and also the flaws that i have mentally painted over with nostalgia or was just willing to endure because Star Wars! Lol
George actually didn't hate Mara the character at all. Michael A Stackpole confirmed it was just a false rumor in an interview from 2020. What Lucas didn't like was the model thing they did with Shannon Mcrandle, the real-life model they hired to portray her. George apparently thought using a model to represent a character that looked like she came out of Cosmopolitan magazine wasn't very Star Wars. I did a vid on my channel covering this.
I think Shannon did a great job. And was certainly better than using Stackpole himself for Corran Horn. (Zahn fit fine as Talon Karrde, Stackpole should have been Hal Horn or Rostek Horn)
Yeah well, GL wasn't always very bright; Shannon McRandle not only fit well for Mara, but she was PERFECT for the character, altogether.
@@DIEGhostfish💯
Was eagerly awaiting this video. I grew up with DF2 but never got to play this as a kid. So seeing you give it the in depth video essay treatment makes me so happy.
Dude you gotta play Jedi Knight 2. You are in for a treat!
As long as you have no fond attachment to the shooting mechanics.
I also remember having demo of this game as just a little kid and playing it again and again, loving it and hoping there will be more, but never got to play it whole. I think I am fulfilled by your review 😄
Can we take a moment to appreciate the lovely Shannon McRandle for being the PERFECT model for Mara Jade (Skywalker)?
I can understand your views being as they are in the context of today. As someone who got this back on original release, it was just an awesome continuation from a great game, and it was thrilling to have such an expansion out so soon after the main game. Multiplayer was also a blast, spent many hours back in the day on MSN gaming zone, playing clan wars for the Imperial Ground Forces (IGF). Great mod back in the day was the SBX one, that took lightsabers to the next level, better than what you even get in Jedi Outcast.
Heeey! I did this shit too, it was so fucking good. SBX and Spork were so awesome.
Oh this is a good game (expansion techically yes I know,) I first played this as a 3 level demo discussion, and eventually got the full game as a kid, loved it. Not many people talk about this game. I loved the first map that seemed like an epic battle with lots of allies. Can't wait to watch this!
I love the idea of giving expansion packs their own video! Especially when the creator in question does excellent work.
Personally, I realized a few years ago when I really wanted to play Quake, but played it to death and was familiar with both the PC and N64 versions too much, that I should check out the expansions instead. Get the authentic experience (made _at the time_ with _those design sensibilities_ versus modern indie boomer shooters seeking to rediscover or imitate such things), but in a fresh package. Lo and behold, Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity _were _*_awesome_* and I kinda kicked myself for ignoring/forgetting them for so long. This was before NightDive and Machine Games went and did the Anniversary remaster too, which gave us the also awesome Dimension of the Machine missions.
Great expansion packs are ABSOLUTELY WORTHY of their own videos, and one I actually did play back in the day was Mysteries of the Sith. Watching this now reminds me that I really should _re-play_ it though, because apparently I forgot a lot, lol. I know it's good, but I didn't have specifics and this was a great overview of the thing. Man, I hope NightDive gives Jedi Knight a remaster after they get their Dark Forces one out the door in, like, a week from my writing this. *fingers crossed
I hope!
Absolutely loving your videos. Your narration and editing are fantastic, and your passion for these games really shine through. Thank you for taking me back to a time when I still loved Star Wars.
Much appreciated!
What I really liked about this game was alot of the ships looked like they were take right from X-wing vs TIE fighter
And not jsut the ones we know like TIEs and Y-Wings, but ships like the R-41 Starchaser and Cygnus Spaceworks Alpha-Class Xg-1 "Star-Wing" Assault Gunboat.
It was nerdgasmic walking on Dromund Kaas in TOR after that game.
As for level design I remeber looking at least twice for guides running whole level for several hours looking for way forward. Hutt pallace and final jungle where you have to find some crack in ruined village hidded behind the tree to proceed.
They not only pulled Mara out of Thrawn books. They got Noghri, Ysalamiri, Vorskrs and every single one was used as random mob without consideration for their place in lore. Like make level on Myrkr if you want to use them.
Yes! This game is such a "hidden gem." Keep up the good work. You do great Retrospectives!
always loved the FPP lightsaber despite its shortcomings. great video!
I love this game, used to play it on a friends 98 machine.
Jfc Evan at 6:07, that was exactly the gist of my comment on your DF2 Jedi Knight retrospective. You are just awesome.
"...which ends up dropping us into the water system. It's all WELL and good..."
I see what you did there!! XD
If Nightdive remasters Dark Forces 2, I hope they include this in with it
I love how you make these videos about Star Wars games. You have a new fan (me)
If memory serves me correctly, the original PC release of this game had the secret Bespin level where you actually did fight Darth Vader. I still have it, might see if I can get it working to check.
Another excellent retrospective, well done!
Such a fantastic game I swear no one else I know has played. Really appreciated the memories and the deep dive. I agree about the level design especially the with temple which I spent what felt like days lost in it. On balance though I also feel like many games today give away too much and at least you had some satisfaction in finally figuring out the solutions here. I miss the days of the EU, just seeing all of the ships, characters and references in this game just really links JK and DF to the wider Star Wars world including the novels. I miss these days where Star Wars felt like something alive to be discovered. And having to turn off your sabre at the end…..what a twist!
back in the day when this came out, me and my friends in Netherlands LAN this game deathmatch with Jedi Powers was ffing amazing
OMG yes yes yes
Finally!
These Star Wars videos are awesome, love this stuff. Made me boot up Jedi Outcast again.
I had that disc back in the day, too. I never knew how this game ended until a year or two ago. Thanks, RUclips.
As someone who only played Jedi Outcast and Academy, it’s been a blast watching these reviews, and they’ve convinced me to try out this series from the start (altho I’m waiting for the xbox port of DF to start). I think you’ll really like Jedi Outcast!
Up next!
24:22 George and his concept artists working on original drafts of RotJ DID come up with the imperial capital city world of _Had Abadon_ however. Coruscant was just a less biblical apocalypse name for it.
Had Abadon was reused in Legacy comics series. Kind of cameo but still
ive been loving your restospectives and this one was the one I was the most interested in, I never had dark forces 1 and 2, but I did have mystery of the sith and played it religiously
I played this game so much as a kid, it was crazy. One of my all time favorites. In my opinion, it was just as good, if not better than the main game. 10/10 perfect!
I don't know if anyone in the comments told you about it already, but the sniper rifle is inside this little building at 13:30. And this entire section at 13:48 can be done by taking sniper position here 12:55 and snipe down everyone. I actually prefer this method instead of running in with guns blazing.
An outstanding mixed review. Damn Disney for making Mara Jade non-canon and damn George Lucas for disliking the character.
He created Star Wars is what he did. He was a brave American director. In this house, George Lucas is a hero. End of story.
@@Rschr101 "and the goongas"
@@Rschr101okay so do you care that he does not like Mara Jade.
@@Rschr101 George Lucas didn't ruin my childhood. Polio did!
6:57 Or, you could just say, the game answers the story of what the hell Kyle and Mara were up to during the events of Dark Empire.
Basically yeah, though it's unclear if the Mara levels are during or after Dark Empire itself, the Kyle missions are at the start of the imperial offensive, before the fall of Coruscant.
Another pure joy indeapth dark forces video. Amazing work on covering the game and all the eu tie ins. I really hope you continue with the jedi outcast series, and maybe one day, how bout KOTOR? Im only asking since yours is the best format out there rn.
I can happily answer yes to BOTH!
@@evprince Hype iis begun!! Cant express enough how grateful we are for you putting don all this time for these long SW videos
One of the best expansions ever. It challenges the original game with its great story. It was such a pleasant surprise back then.
Finding out George didn't come up with Couruscant is blowing my mind.
Imperial City World was something he'd floated for RotJ before settling on the DS2 and endor, plenty of the early art of Coruscant started as concept art of *_Had Abbadon_* which was the original draft name.
@@DIEGhostfish not gonna lie, Had Abaddon is a badass name, but probably not a good one for a capitol city. Maybe a dark side temple or fortress.
Loads better than Palpatine's original name. _Cos Dashit._
I like MotS and feel it's definitely underrated and gets looked over in the series because it's an "expansion pack". I love that both Kyle and Mara are in it, and you can play as both.
I agree about the level design. The levels can often be a bit tedious to navigate. I also miss the live action cutscenes, but that was probably to save money.
I had the original big box version of MotS. Fun times. Mara also appears in Masters of Teräs Käsi
And I have to note that MoTK came out before this, did they gauge reaction to Mara being in a game? I remember it was a big deal at the time at least.
42:28 I don't now if this came before the Thrawn Trilogy Comic adaptation because the HTTE adaptation looked a lot like these giant ape guys, while the later comics looked more like how Nohgri looked in everything else.
This game was my first encounter with Mara, I wasn’t a big book/comic reader in the 90s. However, this game got me to buy the ‘Mara Jade: By the Emperor’s hand’ comic book
Oh the memories. I played the hell out of this game again and again back in the days. The story felt like a bunch of side missions and one relevant mission but Mara's character was well done and it was fun overall
While I have a thing for obtuse 90s level design I think your criticisms are pretty fair here. DF2 is one of my favorite games of all time, and it certainly hung together better both as a game and as a story, but MotS is a nice little addon if you just want more of that. Plus, I think some of the environmental puzzle mechanics were pretty innovative, and that colored lighting they kept talking about really helped dial up the atmosphere at the end of the game.
I love these Star Wars retrospectives. Can’t wait for Jedi Outcast, my all time favorite Star Wars game!
I can't believe you called them "swamp wampas" and actively missed a chance to say "swampas"
Interestingly enough, this went on while Rogue Squadron (commanded by Wedge Antilles) was on Mon Cala fighting off the World Devastators in Star Wars: Rogue Squadron. God bless Timothy Zahn. Only he was truly worthy of taking over Star Wars after GL.
The mazes and puzzles were the best. Hopefully a remaster improves it more and shows the actual paths in the game.
35:29 It's got the SHAPE of a Corvette but I can assure you this ship is SIGNIFICANTLY too large to be a standard Corvette. The Fighter hangar bays alone preclude it.
Mysteries of The Sith is easily my second favorite star wars game, right behind outcast
Most people hate Masters if Teris Kasi but you could unlock Mara Jade. Which was awesome! Also i recieved this game in a pack with Tie Fighter, some windows based yoda game, dark forces and a few others. Never did play it as i had no computer at the time.
In ROTJ when luke meets vader on endor they are standing in the ATAT boarding hallway. The door that luke steps through when he is in cuffs is the ATAT side hatch. Later we see the walker walk away from this hallway into the forrest.
It’s crazy how similar my experience with this game was with yours. I played a TON of DF2JK, but only ever had the trial of this game. I tried to buy it but never could find it in stores back then which drove me crazy cause I always wanted to play it. But my PC actually had issues running the trial for it so idk if I could’ve even played it anyway lol. I was only able to play the very early parts of the game and the rest of this game was just a total “mystery” to me lol. I was able to play it completely through for the first time recently and it was fun, and I was so happy to finally experience it, but it did have some issues for me. I felt like this was a “where the f*** do I go?” kind of game. I had the same exact issues you had finding switches and keys and such. I also didn’t love the story and honestly your video made me understand the plot for the first time ever cause when playing it I just felt confused lol. I didn’t love the Katarn turning evil storyline, and I had no attachment to Mara Jade, so it just felt a bit blah to me. Having said that, this game is like getting to play more Jedi Knight, which is probably my most cherished childhood game of all, so I still really love it. My biggest regret is not owning it in the 90’s so I could play the multiplayer and all the mods and levels for it. I would’ve loved all that. I remember just browsing the levels/mods on the Massassi web site for MOTS and just thinking they must be so cool lol. Overall, I like this game, although it’s not perfect. I always felt like this game was so cryptic because they were attempting to make it more difficult than JK, but that’s a cheap and lazy way to increase difficulty and they should’ve done it differently. I also wish they would’ve included more lightsaber battles with bosses like JK had. I hated the creature enemies at the end and would have much preferred to fight sith or lightsaber wielding enemies. The difficulty spike for those creature enemies in the last levels was just ridiculous and it just makes you sprint past enemies instead of wanting to attempt fighting any. I also didn’t care for how dark everything was, especially in a cryptic game where you can easily miss the path you need to take. I think this game should’ve built on JK’s lightsaber battles more than it did. I’d pay any amount of money for a Jedi Knight remake/remaster, and it’d be amazing if MOTS was included in it also. This game looked so damn cool and its aesthetic is really dark and creepy, but the cryptic levels, lame enemies, and weak story drag the game down a bit overall. It’s still pretty cool though and I’m so glad and thankful that someone gave such an under-appreciated game this much attention. This was a great retrospective.
In the last bonus mission, in the original copy that I played back on windows 98, you do actually fight darth vader, the change on your end must be from the mod installed. But I do particularly remember the mission just popping up and playing it being amazed at that time
Thanks for the review. I played the demo countless times since 1999 before playing the actual game. But really the wide FOV makes it not easy to focus on what's actually on screen while it can also feel a little nauseous at times..
The Star Wars EU generation that filled the void between the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy really was a great time to be a Star Wars fan. Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight and Mysteries of the Sith were perfect examples of this, and for the people growing up around that time, these games were as special as the movies to them. It's sad how all this material got put to the side, as it includes some of the best of Star Wars.
Excellent video and research - instant sub.
Kinda funny you mention selling strategy guides. As far as I know I haven't been able to find any official strategy guidebooks for Mysteries of the Sith
Great video Eman. MOTS was a favorite of mine. I only played the first couple levels without cheats cause I was 9. 👍🏻👍🏻
I hope you do Jedi Outcast next!
Comes out this Thursday night!
@@evprince yessssss
Great video! Never had the chance to play and probably never will so this was a real treat.
You are 100% on point with your mixed feelings across the whole game. I had the full expansion as a kid and, let me tell you, it was absolutely mind boggling as a child. The convoluted level design had me bashing my head against the wall trying to figure out how to progress through so much of the game... especially the "Sith" missions. Way too cool of an atmosphere for the pure BS level design. I'm pretty sure I only ever beat it because of cheats and guides. I've gone back and replayed the game in the past 5 or so years, and even with many, many, years of gaming knowledge and having actually beat them myself at one point... well, let's just say it's nearly as aggravating now as it was then. Oh well.
Great retrospective, and you hit the dichotomy of the pack perfectly on the head. One of the best parts of this review is that you only ever played the demo disc in the past so you had zero clue just how freaking arduous actually beating this half-baked 4 month project ends up being. The more that I think about it the more that MoTS gives me Daikatana vibes. Still a really cool cross-media piece for the EU, I just don't think I'll ever play it again (until the potential full remaster mod comes out).
Tell me about it, what an experience it was!
I tried playing this several times and could never get over the level design. I hated the hidden paths. I enjoyed Jedi Knight a lot and played it several times, but MotS just gave me a headache. I enjoyed seeing you play through it and your thoughts on it made me decide to not try it again. I am so excited for the next games in this series. I have been enjoying this trek down memory lane so much. You are doing such a great job!
Gotta ask something, having come straight from the Dark Forces II history and analysis video. Did Lucas Arts use the same assets from X-Wing, TIE Fighter, and X-Wing vs TIE Fighter games in DF2 and Mysteries of the Sith? They look the same to me and, nerd that I am, I get excited to see some of the supposedly niche starships (like the imperial missile boat) that didn't get outside the prototype phase...unless that lore has changed.
Just like with Dark Forces II, thanks for the in depth assessment. I loved seeing Mara Jade and Kyle Kataran in the same title. Personally, I missed the morality system and multiple endings of the previous title (something which never seemed to come back in the Jedi Knight series IIRC) and - while I never had the navigation issues you suggest, I can understand the frustration, particularly if you're trying to find all the secret areas. Looking forward to more!
I think they're different assets, actually! And Jedi Acadamy brought back the morality system, but we'll get there.
7:01 TO be specific this is ALSO before the Jedi Academy trilogy, and the FIRST missions as Kyle are actually in the leadup to the Dark Empire comics, when the Emperor's reunited warlords poured out to retake the galaxy. It has to be BEFORE the Evacuation from Coruscant short story which shows how the New Republic was driven off Coruscant between the end of the Thrawn Trilogy and beginning of the Dark Empire comics themselves. It's UNCLEAR however if the Mara missions are happening *During* Shadow Hand/Dark Empire, or in the reconstruction after the Cloned Emperor is defeated thrice.
15:10 Dude it was literally the setting for Luke trying to convince Vader not to turn him in in EpVI.
Loved this game, only to win by punching Kyle at the end. 4 weeks wasted... wort it.. iconic classic..
I have a mod that replaces Dark Mara and Dark Kyle with Darth Vader in the Bespin mission. I don't remember where I got it (maybe at the Massassi Temple website?) but it makes a world of difference in bringing that authentic feel to the mission.
Hey they are at the end challenge levels for character development of Mara jade
It makes it more fun to play
the Dark Temple on Dromund Kaas in SWTOR was inspired by the Dark Force temple in this game. Some of the walls even have the purple swirls like in this game.
Always loved this game when it came out. Can't say i had any trouble with level design except for in level 2 with the cannon blowing itself up, i remember going to school and everyone had the same issue until a friend worked it out. I suppose I grew up playing lucasarts games and I always think they have a familiar feel between games so you get a feeling of where they will hide secrets and level paths.
Holy shit. At 38:58 there is an assault gunboat! TIE FIGHTER!!!
1:02:11 wow speaking of fever dreams 😂😂😂 maybe this is why i started dreaming. I heard about mysteries of the sith but never this empire strikes back secret. COOL to learn about thanks for showing us
Oh, Mara jade is upset and sarcastic about everything? Thanks game, i wasn't aware of that!
56:27 the way these games handled the original star wars music, the transitions and perfect cuts, and more importantly the music selection.. i love how the same style endured until Jedi academy, its a shame the rogue squadron series went for midi music
24:20. George didn't come up with the idea for Coruscant.
But there is books that show paintings done by Ralph Mcquarrie of Coruscant that came out before the Timothy Zahn Trilogy.
But RM died in 2012 and TZ wrote the thawn trilogy in 91 to 93
To come back at your comment in the beginning.. this is WHAT EXPANSION packs were back in the day, almost stand alone games.. and not the "shitty" very short DLC stuff we get today
I sure Mara Jade will live a long life with Luke Skywalker.
Jacen Solo: Hold my lightsaber.
😢
Glad to hear someone point out disney hypocrisy!
I don't really care to admire any female characters as close and personally as a main or playable character, but Mara Jade was someone I always enjoyed seeing around. A lot more than Leia actually. And she had a Purple Saber way before dumb Sam Jackson got one for his socio-politically-inspired request.
You forgot the Droid Ballet Hall at Katraasi Spaceport.
The Lumini pirates attacking the holocron ship were visibly commandeering either an imperial star destroyer or and Interdictor ship!
The first appearance of Dromund Kaas!!!
MotS has the problem of while attempting to be fan service it failed to be constantly cool.
Dark Kyle with an Orange Saber is pure awesomeness. Mara Jade is nice. Dromund Kaas is pretty cool, also its swamps. Altyr V was pretty awesome. The Shrike is cool. Sith statues and dark dopplegangers are awesome.
But most of the game has just utterly boring and bad levels, the asteroid bases, new republic corvette, and pirate locations are all damningly bad. Some of the locations just feel like cut or prototype setpieces for DFIIJK. And the game totally lacks an overarching story, and the boss battles feel empty. Lucasarts started out with DFIIJK to make the player feel like a Jedi in a game, but forgot to have such a clear cut aim with this expansion as the abilities themselves fall flat without a justifying story.
Wait what? The last 3 missions might not succeed in justifying the title, but they sure as hell not the worst levels. In fact they are the best!
What do you mean socio-politically inspired request?
Samuel Jackson wanted to see himself on screen in the big geonsois arena. So he asked for his lightsaber to be a different color.
WRONG. The "COLOR PURPLE" has some sort of significance to the blacks. No wonder even a movie is called the same way about them. It is no accident he wanted specifically a purple one.
At first you had my Katarn. Now you have my Jade.
Never new about this Jedi Knight Entry back in the day. Only knew about Mara Jade when i was 13 years olds.
Mysteries of the Sith isn't an expansion pack "in name only", it's what expansion packs were always supposed to be before microtransaction hell.
Just throwing it out there for the remaster there is a one click exe just like for df2 that makes installing the mod super quick and easy. With that said love your videos thanks a lot!
Also, - technically - while Zahn came up with the name Coruscant, the Imperial City planet itself was always a Lucas creation. It was in the original draft of Return of the Jedi under a different name.
Danke!
I have probably spent so much hours at Caraboni's Base that in itself should be canon.
19:24 THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR!!! 😊😊almost done with V4 of the soundtrack for the celebration of the Remaster coming out
I bet it does!! Wonderful work on the OST btw, you've been a credit to the series.
You'll have to play Jedi Outcast. It’s a fun game
Already did a video on it friend!
The sniper being an alt for the E-11 took me so long to figure out as a kid
I played so much multiplayer in this game. It was so fun. Thank you for covering it! After you're done with the JK series would you consider doing TIE Fighter or X-Wing Alliance?
I've gotten a TON of requests for this.. I haven't played them, but I do believe I want to cover them for sure.