One of my favorite things about Raven is her power Because I never saw it as the tool to run away with. But a power to help anyone you love at any time. No matter where you are, How far you are, I'll always be in reach.
I know and that is my biggest thing against how they're wasting Raven's potential as a character! She has a semblance that let's her reach those she loves in merely seconds, regardless how far apart they are! Someone with a power like that only using it to save themselves from harm? No, something like implies she SHOULD have a deep and strong loyalty to those she loves and cares for. It could even explain why the Branwen tribe never wanted to go after Qrow when he abandons the Tribe, because Raven who is their leader forbid them to out of love for her brother deep inside, but on the outside uses the excuse of him being too strong to make them think twice. For Yang, it's a motherly love that will always have an eye out for her only flesh and blood daughter. Despite the supposed rule of her's. For Taiyang, for her to STILL have a portal to him can only mean she MUST still love and care for him. So for Roosterteeth to waste her potential as someone who CAN have a great redemption arc is just sad and honestly, infuriating. Hell, the RWBY visual novel, JPDE, DOES Raven and Adam better than Rooster Teeth EVER had! Edit: Yeah, Eruptionfang proves a point. Redemption maybe be a big need, though I would like to see it not in apologizing, but in her saving Yang and Qrow, as well as the writers FINALLY justifying her stances on things. To show her love and concern for Qrow and Yang especially as someone trying to open their eyes to how messed up Ozma's war with Salem truly is.
to me the weirdest character is summer, yang forgot about her even through she raise her, tai never mention her, ruby see's her like the best mom in the world but she shouldn't have any memories of her and salem knows about her too in like a personal matter non less???
Yeah, according to Yang, Ruby was a toddler when Summer died meaning Ruby should barely remember her, heck with Yang being only 2 years older than Ruby, Yang should also barely have any memories of Summer because she'd be around 4 or 5 when Summer died
I would’ve liked Yang more if she joined Ruby and Qrow’s talk about Summer back in Volume 07 if she hadn’t took silly selfies with her supposed-to-be girlfriend.
If volume 4 could’ve been rewritten, so that it was Raven’s group that raided Ren’s home as opposed to solely one Grimm. The Grimm could still have showed up, but as a result of the bandits. Certainly would provide a different dynamic between Ren and Yang.
I honestly thought that WAS the case. they Chekhov's gun the bandit raid thing with the first village they ran into. and when ren's village came up, i was like "ok, so that's what that little scene was all about." but Nope, it was all for that one scene in the bar between Krow and Raven, and that's it.
@@walrusaurelius4801 SWKR? So, soccer? Soccer moms are usually hot (emphasis on usually). Though, for a team name of those 4, I’d go with SKRS (scars, representing the scars of the past on each member of team RWBY). I know it’s not a color, but it’s fitting of what they represent (with Kali, she represents Blake’s past with the White Fang, which has definitely left scars on Blake’s heart), so idc.
I only just now noticed that there is a raven flying overhead at the start of the yellow trailer. That implies that Yang's mom has been watching over her since before Yang started her first year at Beacon Academy. This gives me the implications that Raven is the kind of mother who will watch from afar and jump in only whenever her child needs it
She's so fucking cool. I buy that she has conflict within her. Regrets. I'm interested to have seen what happened. Why she left. What her relationship with Qrow was. I get a heavy Dante and Vergil feel from them, twins whose souls are at odds because they have very different ideals. Her not wanting to get Yang mixed up with Oz and Salem's bs is honestly really understandable. I really hope we can someday find out more about them and for her to be able to have another chance. To patch things up with her family.
@@RE-45. I'm pretty sure that her semblance besides portals makes her feels what connected person feel. I mean how she knows when she needs show up to save Yang? And I think she felt when Summer was dying. So she came up and saw her death (or sth like that). Besides I have hope that she'll back in the finale of volume 8.
@@XentusX Raven (and Ironwood) are more like Anti-Villains, with a chance of Redemption, tho Ironwood chances are getting thinner and thinner the more he's pushed against the wall in the war against Salem. but Raven has gotten the perfect chance right now as Tai saw the message and is more likely that he will coordinate with the surviving Beacon staff to do something, and whose the person able to get them to Atlas in no time? Raven.
Another weird and oddly poetic part of her character is that now in Volume 8 with Salem taking matters into her own hands, Raven's words and warning to Yang ring truer than ever before, which makes the fact that Raven is misunderstood and no one ever defends her that much more sad, yet poetic. The one character who was right about Salem, the one who knew the risks first hand (we assume), and the one who is so prideful yet willing to be so vulnerable when mentioning a massive threat like Salem... is ignored. And now Team RWBY and the vast majority of the cast are running around Atlas in a panic as the truth/realization of their decision to combat Salem is right in front of them. Had Yang asked those questions that needed to be asked and her (or someone else) listened to Raven and understood her perspective, perhaps the Heroes wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. It's another classic example of the writers ACCIDENTALLY creating an ALMOST perfect concept around Raven, but missing out on big sections of the story/characters to make total sense of it.
“I don't trust immortal, not even conceptually. Hell I’m an atheist “wait why the fu- Because for whatever fountain of knowledge they have, they inherently have lack one thing empathy Because they have separated themselves from what makes us all human All people, Death itself Yang if you die you'll just be another pawn sacrifice to their Queen But to your family they will hurt even *more* but not Oz because he's done this dance a *thousand times already*. she strikes, he parries, he counters, she hides *repeat* over and over again like *clockwork*. It's pointless, it's *hopeless* honestly. Yang, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place And even if we win that only means she'll go back into hiding and do it all over again. and all that sacrifice would be for nothing. My death would be meaningless, *Summers* death would be meaningless, the hundreds of deads before us would be meaningless. I don't want to waste my life on some stupid chess game between two immortal exlovers qoral And the only way to win a game like that is *Not to play.* Yang: you can't just stay here And wallow in nihilism- Raven: How.. can.. you.. *KILL A GOD* what advantage did ozpin truly give you. cuz he sure as f*** didn't give me anything not summer not, tai not, Qrow or evan ironwood. (Silence in the air) (Deep breath) You may think I'm a coward and that's fair But at the very least I live my life how I wanted, not as a *pawn* but a *person*.
The true sad part about Yang "speech" is that not only does it not fit Raven at all....it perfectly fits Blake, the woman who abandoned her friends no matter how troubled and injured they were, the problems of the world and all the terrible things she's done just to live peacefully. Everything Yang said was true for Blake, yet not only she forgave her, she never brings it up and is her girlfriend, it's truly disgusting but hilariously ironic
My only rebuttal to this would be that Blake has shown growth to Yang, and had been present, while Raven has been absent and, even in their first meeting at the camp, was cold and almost absent. I don't disagree, but just a little bit more context. From Yang's story in Vol 3 (I think. Whichever one Dance, Dance, Infiltration is in) it sounds like Yang only knew OF Raven but never personally knew her. I'm really hoping that with the current situation as of 3/20/2021's episode, we get some redemption on the front of Yang, Blake, and Raven.
Big difference though is Blake is a teenager, its natural for a teen to runaway after being traumatized / etc, as for Raven is a fully grown adult/huntress and her mother.
i mean bruh she is a bandit, and her introduction was taking weiss captive to sell to her dad, that isnt exactly the best first impression plus she really was shove4d under the rug leaving people only with that first impression and nothing much to draw from
@@mychanel35 I mean BrUh.. that wasn't even her INTRODUCTION into the show??.. we also had plenty to go off of for her character before Weiss was captured. It also just means she's a bad PERSON, not neccessary a bad CHARACTER. RWBY fans clearly don't understand that idea because anyone who hurts the feelings of our title Waifu's deserve hatred apparently. This fandom is so dumb I swear. I wasn't a RWBY fanatic who immediately hated her because she wasnt on our hero's side of things and was corrupt. "let WeISs gO, YoU AbAnDOnED YaNg!". I didn't think that way. I was more interested in learning about her and why she is the way she is. What she values, what she's afraid of, how much she cares for Yang but shows it in different ways. A character who cares about her daughter but values herself more because of her upbringing is very fascinating. A group of naive characters who all think the exact same way (minus Ren) when it comes to righteousness is extremely boring. She's a far more interesting character than Qrow I'll tell you that!.
You know I have this theory that Raven saw what happened to summer which is why she is so afraid of Salem like she was looking for Summer and used her semblance only to find Salem and Summer fighting she saw Summer lose and fled. This may be the reason that she is trying to warn Yang because she doesn’t want her to suffer the same fate Summer did
that looks like it could possibly be true. Raven seems to be the only one of STRQ to be scared of Salem/knows what she’s capable of. Qrow doesn’t the same insight as Raven towards Salem. We don’t even know what Taiyang thinks of Salem. If memory serves, when Emerald makes an illusion of Salem, Qrow reacts just like everyone else, scared of the unexpected. Ozpin says that it’s a good representation of Salem, but Qrow doesn’t agree or anything(at least I don’t remember.)
I honestly think the same thing. I think Raven does care about her family, but also wants to protect them by staying away because of Salem-I also think her upbringing wasn’t exactly warm and fuzzy so having a traditional domesticated life is not in her nature-so she can’t be the mom Yang wants. Hopefully Raven will come back and tell her side of the story (maybe Yang will listen to this time-bit with an angsty teen-it’s hard to say).
I really wanted them to expand more with Yang and Raven relationship more with the abandonment issues,since she still cares about her mom more than anything, but now we have that with Blake for some odd reason.
facts.. they were going with BlakexSun but because fanbase pressured the team for BlakexYang, Blake and sun never happened which made me very sad. I don't have anything against the Blake and yang relationship but it just was so forced imo- sun was there for Blake at her side and understood a lot of Blake's emotions better than yang too. i would have loved for more mother-daughter development and understanding behind Raven's motives. Hopefully we'll get more of that in the future. I feel like Monty wanted Raven to be played off as a good mum etc without the angsty attitude which they suddenly implemented after Monty's death to their own liking , in reference to Yang meeting Raven the first time and was friendly to her and such. But when she met her mother again at the encampment - she wasn't very uhh. how should I say this.. ''welcoming'' as she was shown in the post credit scene. A lot of inconsistencies.
@@aubs5495 for real, like it was obvious that Blake was originally going to end up with Sun, but the fan base even some of the youtuber and staff, have pressure them into doing it, like they already have a couple of gay character already in a relationship in the show, why force those who weren't supposed to be one.
Kinda funny, since post-V3 Blake and Raven do resemble each other. Both run away, both abandoned Yang, and both want to be alone (even if deep down they might not want to)
I honestly think they’ll pull a “redemption equals death” with her in later seasons, and if they do I’ll be mad because that trope is the worst choice they could do but with the way they left her it’s the only thing they can do
I hope not. Raven doesn’t need redemption. She doesn’t even need forgiveness. She just needs her daughter to know she cares. I still hope Raven does show up in Vol 8 Maybe to save Qrow since it doesn’t look like team RWBY are going to.
I legitimately believe that’s why the dark shot of Yang is there in the volume 8 opening. I could see her coming to save Yang if they go into Mostra and fail. Standing up to Salem & losing her maiden power to Cinder so that Cinder can become relevant power creep wise again. RWBY getting the Staff of Creation but losing the spring maiden power to Conder seems liked a balanced ending to the volume.
@@thelegendaryevergas just realized if they kept in touch with Raven it could of been like. Yo qe need a pickup. Then just evacuate everyone through her portal. Boom season 8 over... Unless every individual going through the portal uses up her stamina/aura... then just use Jaune as a powerup. Boom! Still good.
It weirds me out that Qrow and Ruby have more of a relationship than with his ACTUAL niece, Yang. Edit: I know that blood doesn't mean a closer bond, but in RWBY, Yang and Qrow RARELY talk or interact, giving the impression that they have no relationship or connection at all, but Qrow has been a part of Yang’s life more than raven ever was, so shouldn't there be something there? Edit 2: omg thanks for 1k likes and agreeing with me!
I did realize that when I was watching this video. I know the whole theory about "Qrow was Ruby's father" was debunked and all. But throughout the series, I don't blame them considering that given what we've seen.
Blood doesn't really equal a closer bond, but yeah, they're still family regardless so it's pretty weird that he interacts with one of them more instead of both.
It's not weird just because their blood connected dose not mean a closer bond. He trained her Ruby has the same weapon and the same basic personality Yang is more like a light hearted Raven.
well, Qrow DID trained Ruby, while Taiyang trained Yang, that explains why she seems to be closer to their dad than ruby to the point of making harsh comments and taking them in strides.
One thing I wished they did with Raven is having her play a role in helping Yang overcome her PTSD. You could really play into Raven's design similarity with Adam where Yang would see a flash of him the first time she meets with Raven.
I always has the head canon before watching volume 5 that Adam was trained by raven, explaining his look, weapon choice and Grimm mask and I thought that’s why yang was going to raven because she knew everything about Adam in an attempt to try and overcome him. Think rwby as a whole should be labelled the show of missed opportunities I’ve never in my life wanted a show to just change stuff so much
@@cbbartman1360 Having a relationship between Adam and Raven is an interesting idea. I have never been bothered by them not having one and always though of it as coincidence. Most of the changes the show needs are minimalistic. Twiins iink has a pretty good video on Adam. Some other ideas I have for Yang and Raven. After Yang calms down, Raven knows Yang isn't ready, summons a portal, and coldly gives her a choice, be sent back to Tai and mope in bed or live with the tribe and become stronger to not fear/take revenge against Adam. The two of them go together to a hot spring. The path to it is filled with grimm and requires Yang's emotions to be in check. Have Yang wear her mom's outfit and helmet. Once we get there have them connect a little and have Raven answer some of Yangs questions. I would really love a Raven and Vernal vs Yang and Weiss where the maiden powers are in use and Vernal is wearing a mask to keep the Maiden mystery. It would play to Yang's conflict with Raven, Yang would overcome her Adam visions during the fight, and it would give them experience in fighting the Maidens. The fight would end with Yang getting a clean semblance punch to Raven breaking her mask and unknowingly stopping the maiden powers.
Reading this and replies, now I got playing out how it could have gone at the fall of Beacon, Yang and Blake verses Adam. Adam is fending them both off and Blake, thinking she should be fighting him alone, is also trying to get Yang away. Adam shoves Blake back and twists, taking off Yang's arm. Yang falls and starts trying to drag herself away, pained and heavy breathing. Blake tries to overtake Adam only to get knocked back into a wall, could even have in doing this his sword cuts her side if want to keep that tiny scar they show in Vol 6. As Yang shoots her remaining gauntlet, a portal opens and an elemental blade strike hits Adam from the side before he can finish Yang, as Blake would be trying to collect herself dur to injury and broken aura. Blake in shock looks over to see this swirling red portal close, and this woman in red wearing a Grimm mask with a long sword beside her. Raven, keeping an eye on a recovering Adam says "Take her." and Blake snaps out of her shocked daze. She winces and rushes over, grabbing Yang and runs. Adam snarls at Raven. "Next time you won't be so fast in defending oppressors." or something. And Raven doesn't flinch. "And I'll remove you from that title once taken." to Adam. That could, if keep the eh weird shift path they took him in, to foreshadow her seeing a want for power to make his desires a reality faster, and him taking over Cianna's (I don't remember how her name his spelled, tiger lady) faction of the White Fang in Vol 5.
I just love how Yang beings up that she's seen Ravens bird form often enough that she can actually tell it apart from all the other ravens. That should have given her a hint that Raven was keeping a close eye on her.
One of my biggest hopes for the future is Yang and Tai somehow meeting up with Yang eventually mentioning Raven in a negative attitude to Tai just for him to aggressively defend her and criticize Yang for her narrow-mindedness. Would it be hard to fit Tai going to Vacuo or Yang going home? absolutely, but I think that might be the only way for any of the three of them to show some sort of development.
dont forget that both Qrow and Tai warned Yang about Raven´s complex nature before giving her leads of how to find her, Yang being cautious and passive-agressive with her was because of that, The way I see it is that Yang was too afraid to be right about her mother´s true nature, and Raven, while trying her best to be nice, was forgetting an essential part when trying to patch a damaged relation, humility. (by contrast, Willow Schnee wasnt the best of Moms either, but she always acknowledged that and showed remorse about it in front of Weiss)
@@ayar2 That's definitely fair a different way to think about it that I'll think about. I was more referring to Yang telling Tai something along the lines of "Raven is just a self-centered coward who only cares about herself." This leading to Tai arguing to Yang about all the things EF talked about, and asking Yang if Raven doesn't care about her, then why is there enough of a deep emotional connection for there to be a portal between the two. I definitely understand your point and both their failures with communication with the last few times they met need to be addressed next time they meet.
@@ayar2 Good point but I do think there was a better way for Yang to act when with Raven. Yang herself wasn't really angry at her mom in the past, the way Qrow talked about her wasn't really negative either (sure the thing he was asked to relay to Yang may have been cold but his tone when talking about her wasn't negative or cold), and Tai thinks of Raven quite fondly. I imagine minus Qrow, Tai's attitude is the reason behind Yang's sad curiosity we saw initially so it's kinda weird to see her have such a combative attitude towards Raven. Then again she had just lost her arm and the person she risked her life for just ran away so I suppose it would explain something but eh.....
But this was also one of the best. I didn't really care or understand Raven, but this video really highlights what RWBY could have been. How many characters were wasted
That's my biggest problem with the writing for RWBY, no one can't call out team RWBY's BS without being a villain/villain-like or being lectured by these teenagers who don't have the same experiences as the adults around them. I don't mind ideals clashing, but at this point it's getting so stupid now that the FNDM sucks it in like "deep lore" and tell you that you aren't a real fan cause you call out the huge flaws.
Honestly that was probably one of the biggest reasons why I liked the newest episodes. The blue haired Happy Huntress (huh neat her name is my birth month) outright tells them that they need to pick a side because no matter what they do they can't save everyone. Makes it even better when the girls don't have any idea what they should actually do.
That’s why I hope the fix it with the schneeblings, and have us *ACTUALLY* see some abuse, other than causing her children fear, and slapping his daughter in the face. Maybe actually show some of their childhood
Oh I totally agree with you, mate. I dove deep into the RWBY lore trying to find out more about the characters, Grimm, and the world itself. But with how much information is portrayed, and how they write off characters so simple, it’s hard to really reconcile with “die-hard” RWBY fans.
"The character she is in modern day is plagued by pride, the unreasonable sense of self importance, utter arrogance and believing your way is the right way. Believing in only your own abilities and not in that of others. Always looking down on them." We still talking about Raven here or we talking about team RWBY?
Shit. I kind of see Spec Ops: The Line with team RWBY. They end up causing atrocities and then they blame others. Like Ironwood. The man was stressed enough as is, and then he lost any and all support from outside forces because they kept denying the truth?
You make a good point. I think a lot of opportunities were missed with characters just because some fans want to see RWBY hold hands and dance in a circle all the time. Its also why the main characters often seem to be part of a hive mind.
Without Monty Oum anybody can/could now add their own garbage to the characters e.g Blake is now a representation of everything that Arryn Zech was confused about in her high school days...The Raven we see nowadays is not the Raven we would have seen if Monty was around
honestly? Yeah. Most of the new writers don't really know anything about what Monty wanted for the show whatsoever, and last I checked, Miles and Kerry (who actually did know) are both gone. Which is just kinda depressing, since the concept is good, great even, but the constant addition and subtraction of writers ever since Monty's untimely death has destroyed it. Like, even if Monty had weird habits for making the show, he still had amazing ideas at least. Now they've just got kinda.....shoddy ideas with shoddy execution.
@@caesarin0 if you look at the post credits for some episodes in volume 8, they are both still writing the story/episodes and Juane is voiced by one of them. I don't understand what you mean.
The part where you talk about how it looks like Raven did try to be a good mom in the tent (and that adorable "good mom" checklist lol) really opens my eyes to her character the most. Thinking about it, Raven only had a series of options regarding Yang and the ones she chose make perfect sense. She was raised by people who should never have influence on a child, and they made Raven who she is. Of course she won't feel like she'll make a good mom. But for a time, she really really wanted to be with Tai, and anyone who's felt that way knows how heart-tearing and stressful it is to fight/ignore. So she could 1. just never be with him and keep ignoring it forever, and do the same for any other guy she ever meets and likes, for the rest of her life, 2. she could be with him but demand they stay celibate (lol), or 3. she could take the chance it might lead to a baby. I don't know how people can blame her for not picking one of the first two options. As it turns out, she made a baby, and now she has three more options. 1. Try to force herself to be that "good mom" image she knows about, who teaches good morals and is kind to her little girl (which she was sure she would fail), 2. just be herself as a mom, teaching her daughter how to be an a reprehensible person with gross morals, which is all she knew, or 3. leave the parenting to Tai, a "good dad," and go back to where she can be herself freely without ruining a kid in the process. Based on her upbringing and the morals and values she was taught, how can people not expect her to choose the third option? She probably believed Yang would be fine and should just be strong cuz life's tough, and so she just left. That's the kind of morals Raven's always been taught after all. Honestly Crow should be a rougher person too. Especially with his semblance guaranteeing awful treatment his whole life.
Yesss!!! She weighed her options and chose what she thought was right. It probably broke her heart to leave a man she loved and their proof of love but she knew herself and didnt want to influence Yang or have her be like her. She knew that Yang was going to be in good hands and be taught to be strong in a way that Raven wasnt taught.
This day keeps getting better and better! I agree. Qrow really ought to be the more jaded one, but it's Raven. It means there had to be some kind of difference between them, and the fact that we have no idea what really bums me.
Idk I feel like we're cutting her too much slack. I agree with what yang said to her at the end of volume 5. She turns her back on people when things get too rough and she rationalizes those decisions by saying she's being strong or doing what's best for her tribe. At some point the tribe excuse gets old. Especially when that said tribe are creepy thieving and killing bullies that literally only think of themselves. Tribes are just smaller villages so what's stopping them from being honest civilians who don't raid and leave towns at the mercy of grim. It's not like they have to worry about actual discrimination like the faunus. I know its not like talking about but my goodness if she really cares about her tribe and family, she would modify their way of life so she wouldn't have to make choices like leaving her own baby.
@@melodrama5701 I mean just because it makes sense for her character that those are the choices she made and we can rationalize the choices she made doesnt mean we agree with her. yes she is a bad mom and she has done awful things and needs to be help accountable for what she has done, but that doesnt mean we cant understand how she got there, being able to glean the why while still holding a character to their actions in a narrative is good writing.
@@melodrama5701 But again, consider the people from who's she's from, not good people with good morales, then she met Ozpin, then thought she was really doing some good in the world, then learned the awful truth about Salem being unkillable, effectively rendering everything she's done under Ozpin a bit useless since no matter how hard or how long she fights, Salem always come back, and Salem can just wait for her to die of old age since she's immortal and continue her work, while Raven will just have delayed maybe a little bit her plans and nothing more in the grand schemes of things. That's what Raven understood from her point of view when she learned the truth about Ozpin and Salem, so at the end, she was like, nothing matters anymore so she left, maybe without Yang knowing she would probably have all her teammates plus Ozpin on her back, which after knowing the truth she didn't want that, so she left, kept tabs on Yang and Tai by watching them in her bird form, while also leaving Yang with a good father that would take care of her and not a cynical, thieving, murdering woman like she was. Her asking her daughter to join her and leave Salem's war was done on the account that she knew her daughter fighting Salem would results only in death since Salem is immortal so she wanted to spare Yang a pointless death, though Yang doesn't see it that way, but like not even Ozpin has a good idea on how to defeat Salem for good, so honestly, not gonna blame Raven for thinking fighting for him against Salem is pointless. Now, Raven at the end accepts her daughter is more brave than her and accepts (even if she doesn't like it) her choice to continue fighting Salem, while apologizing to her. Raven knows she has no authority on Yang to force her to do anything she doesn't want with her never been around in her life at all so. But also, Raven wasn't raised with the same rules, laws and morales as us. While thinking about how Qrow also got the same upbringing than her, he has a different semblance that makes him stay away from his loved ones less they get bad luck against his will and that he has no control over, unlike her who can get close to people she has a connection to whenever she wants without any problem whatsoever, Raven learned the truth years ago, Qrow learns it during the series and it took him a long time to get over it, maybe if he had learned it at the same time as Raven he would have joined her back to their tribe too. Now, for her to choose the tribe over Tai and Yang, maybe she asked him to come with her, he refused, so she decided to leave, not wanting to stick around to see him die in a pointless war, unlike her tribe who was just minding their own buisness without getting involved. Sure, the conflict is still there and one day no one will be able to avoid it, but also from her point of view it's unwinnable so why bother fighting to death over nothing while she can try and spend as much time as possible doing what she wants and can before the war reaches her and her tribe? Of course, she's not perfect, never was, but also I just understand that she doesn't live in a kind world and with magic and an immortal witch who wants to destroy the world and she knows it will happen one day or another, well. She spended years with that knowledge, so it had the time to do a thing on her mindset and actions and making her flaws even worse, but also it's understandable. Then again, it could look odd to us, but again not too long ago our ancestors were still doing stuff that today we would call the police if people were doing it today, like marrying kids under 15 and the likes, so, and in some countries it still happens again today. The world of RWBY is not a nice place to live, with Grimms feeding on negative feelings, a corrupt world where the riches can have slaves and if said slaves kills them in retaliation for the years of abuse under them (legitimate defence) they would still be arrested anyway, and of course racism and the likes, and all the war with Salem thing.
I think another interesting thing they could have done was show Raven as a person who struggles with responsibility. Especially when those responsibilities conflict. As a maiden, she needs to keep Salem away from the relics but at the same time she has her responsibilities as a sister, mother and lover. The logical thing to do, would be to stay away from them to protect them but she can't help but worry and that would tie in well with her semblance, which allows her to check in and help even from a distance. Upholding her responsibilities to some extent.
Five minutes in, I agree, RWBY needs to utilise its characters more in general. Raven is part of an underlying issue of half-fleshed out characters which can, and ultimately are, misconstrued. RWBY, and I think EruptionFang mentioned this previously, needs to either reduce the content of its volumes, or increase the episode count of them. Now I'm a writer, amateur, for sure, only published one book, and I'm pretty sure it's terrible, but I understand at least that this isn't how you treat your characters. Characters are people, and should be hated or loved as such, if they aren't shown fully, people will either draw incorrect conclusions or dismiss them entirely. Constructive criticism? Cut down on characters or slow the pacing, stories aren't made for this type of fast-paced rapid fire introduction and exclusion type thing towards characters. It kills immersion, it kills consumer empathy. Good video friend, I always enjoy them, good evening!
I’ve never not liked Raven she’s definitely in my top five characters. And with everything going on in the current volume, if the raven showing up with tai after the message went out theory turns into reality. This could be a good way to reintroduce her if stuff goes south in the whale, causing her to break her own rule of one to once again help her daughter in a time of need. But idk how probable that is
The after credits scene with Yang and Raven felt like a set up that was going to be shown and resolved in the first two episodes of Volume 3. But with the death of Mounty Oum many idea were replaced or thrown out. Missed opportunity that's for sure. And after watching your video I now see Raven not as a coward but a smart person. She learned the truth and realized that suicide isn't the better part of valor and decided to live her life how she wanted to.
Damn I'm like why did they throw his ideas? They knew he was a smart man who loved action & did a good storytelling with his characters. I know we all wish he was still here
The thing is, Rooster Teeth could've easily still made Raven a Maiden, as well as keep her as our first impression. Run away to protect Yang and Tai because of the Maiden Powers, as well as Raven taking the first step back into Yangs life. It would also explain Qrow and Tais photos and why she was smiling in it. Also, as for Raven appearing at the end of Volume 2 being a dream, I think how Yang physically saw her was souly based off Yangs description herself, just with the details she already knew. Black hair, red eyes, her color scheme, sword, etc. Ravens model in the post credits scene is just a recolored Yang with a necklace and sword, then in Volume 4 when Raven was properly introduced, they added the key differences between her and Yang.
The worst thing about how they treated Raven is the long term damage it has on Yang. Raven was the endpoint for Yang's character. It was set up to be her motivation. The reason why she is here in the story. By brushing it off as unimportant, not only do you end up destroying one of the reasons why Raven is even in the show, to begin with, but you also remove Yang's sole motivation for being a Huntress, if not outright making it questionable why Yang bothered to become one in the first place. My main issue with Yang in the current story is the fact she has no personal motivation outside of helping Ruby. She has no own agenda or goals because she's already got them done. When you have characters with their own personal goals and motivations, you generally have these things set up to be met by the end of the story. But with RWBY, you have Yang's entire character arc completed in V5 with her meeting with Raven and the confrontation in front of the Vault at Haven. Yang no longer has any real personal drive. That's sadly why her character now can't go 5 minutes without thinking about Blake because their relationship is all the writers have to go on at this point. The same can be said about Blake, Ren, and Nora. By having their own goals be achieved so early on in the story, you lose a reason you can always fall back on to answer why the characters are here. That's why most of their dialogue nowadays is nothing but relationship issues because they have nothing else to work with. With V8 looking to wrap up Weiss' character motivation and solving her issues with her family, the only characters who still have goals/motivations/plotlines are Jaune, Oscar, and Ruby. Jaune needs to fight Cinder and defeat her in order to avenge Pyrrah, Oscar has to deal with Ozpin and all the things Ozpin has done, and Ruby has to defeat Salem and prove to the Gods that humanity has been redeemed, probably with a protagonist speech or some bs. Meanwhile, we have a cast of 9 people. Only a third of the cast even has goals and plotlines at this point meanwhile for the rest the writers have to keep trying to justify the other characters' continual existence in the story. The story of RWBY started out with 4 characters with their own goals and motivations joining together to fight a threat to the world at large. Now, it's a story of four characters with only one of them still having their goals and motivations yet to be achieved while everyone else has gotten their goals and motivations taken care of. The story of RWBY is no longer about Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and Yang. It's a story focus on Ruby alone with the other characters being brought along out of requirement at this point.
She doesn't even have helping Ruby as a motivation anymore, she straight up took a separate side away from her after claiming it was Ruby's leadership that got them into this mess, when one of the big reasons was Yang and Blake spilling government secrets.
"Devils advocate the movie" Seriously though well done, surprised to have a fan video character breakdown manage to make me care for a character that's long since been dead to me and we haven't seen in 3 years. Corners were cut in volumes 4 and 5 and Raven was almost the sole casualty for almost all of them, which was a tragedy given how much she'd been built up, hinted at and alluded to so heavily throughout the entire series all the way up to her "official" reveal. Who knows? Maybe we'll see her make a grand return sometime in volume 8 to help turn the tides, and where volume 4 and 5 left her character torn asunder to be yet another stepping stone for team RWBY volume 8 will give her character a chance to fly once again.
Dude. R.I.P all of the antagonists. Its so annoying that Monty, a man who was better with animations then story telling could tell a better story than the current writers
@@baronmega19BBY Exactly as much as I didn’t like Adam, I don’t think it makes sense for the current writers to have killed him but kept someone like llia even tho Adam could have gotten redemption like she did because Adam wasn’t evil, he was just confused
okay i think i can phrase this better fix Raven With this " why did you leave me" yang asked bluntly holding back her emotions raven: because i didn't trust myself and raising you in a place like the bandits is no place for a child to live, i speak from experience. yang: you could have stayed with us especially after sum- raven:yang i honestly, don't trust myself with a child's happiness. yang :then why did you leave me with dad? 'could have abandoned me anywhere gave me to some orphanage or something. raven: what you don't like tai(she asked rhetorically ) yang: no i. love him hes just wonderful and- raven: and that's it yang:what? raven: (eye to eye )yang the reason i left you with him, is because i knew from years of working with him that he would take care of you and love you for all that you are. i don't trust myself.... i can't... but i'd rather love you from a distance then break you up close. Even can do Salem and Raven “I don't trust immortal, not even conceptually. Hell I’m an atheist for earth's sake “wait why the fu- Because for whatever fountain of knowledge they have, they inherently have lack one thing empathy Because they have separated themselves from what makes us all human All people, Death itself Yang if you die you'll just be another pawn sacrifice to their Queen But to your family they will hurt even *more* but not Oz because he's done this dance a *thousand times already*. she strikes, he parries, he counters, she hides *repeat* over and over again like *clockwork*. It's pointless, it's *hopeless* honestly. Yang, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place And even if we win that only means she'll go back into hiding and do it all over again. and all that sacrifice would be for nothing. My death would be meaningless, *Summers* death would be meaningless, the hundreds of deads before us would be meaningless. I don't want to waste my life on some stupid chess game between two immortal exlovers qoral And the only way to win a game like that is *Not to play.* Yang: you can't just stay here And wallow in nihilism- Raven: How.. can.. you.. *KILL A GOD* what advantage did ozpin truly give you. cuz he sure as f*** didn't give me anything not ironwood not, tai not, not Qrow or even summer . (Silence in the air) (Deep breath) You may think I'm a coward and that's fair But at the very least I live my life how I wanted, not as a *pawn* but a *person*. And I suggest you do the same as well. (Walking away, portal opan, her head tilted back And yang Make sure Ruby doesn't end up like her mother. I always regretted it, not being able to help her. only showing up on the body was still warm. (treary whisperery choke of a sob, her gaze dead a head ) or what's was left of her(enters portal)
I've always found myself drawn to extremely complex characters, both good and evil, for as long as I can remember. I don't know if I actively seek out drawn blanks or missing plotlines or whatever, or if I sense it by accident, but I inevitably find myself always asking questions and wanting to find out more and dig deep. When it comes to RWBY, the two characters I've done almost endless searching and theorizing on is Raven and Mercury. For now, the focus will be on the former. Some people had told me in the past that I was reading too deeply into Raven whenever I mentioned watching clips of her and listening to her lines over and over again to pick up any trace of someone hidden behind the cold mask we were introduced to. And for a while, I almost believed them. But me being me, I couldn't let it go and simply accept things at face value, so I kept digging and thinking. As a writer myself (not professional), I'll openly admit that we so screw up our own stories sometimes, probably more often than anyone would like to admit. However, when it comes to Raven or other complex characters that become vastly hated, I try very hard to not immediately call out Miles and Kerry for bad writing because I feel like there's more to come that will eventually be enlightened upon. I think that's actually what draws me to villains and antagonists so much, I'm always wondering what led them to becoming the people they are now. Despite what the majority of the fandom may agree on, and during my moments of peer pressed induced doubt, I've never truly viewed Raven as a coward or a bad person in general. Yes, she's done many questionable things in the show, but nothing that's come off as truly malicious to me. The way I look at her - my own personal theory - is that at the very heart of it all, Raven is actually doing everything she's doing BECAUSE she's thinking like a mother. Like you mentioned, Raven is terrified of Salem because she knows what Salem is capable of, or at least it's been implied so. Now, I had to use a little imagination for this next part (writer, remember? lol), but this is my personal belief of what happened in the past: My theory is that Salem actually visited the STRQ household either sometime before or after Yang was born, likely with the aid of a Seer. Assuming Raven didn't obtain the Spring Maiden powers until many years later, she and Qrow would still at the time be Oz's best tools since they could turn into birds and spy on Salem (hence their allusions to Huginn and Muninn, the ravens of Odin), so how do you take them out? As we've recently learned in Volume 8, Salem likes to destroy her enemies from the inside, so I believe she did this with Raven by showing up one night and threatening Yang's life if she stayed. Even if not a traditional mother and there being a possibility of Salem bluffing, Raven is still not willing to gamble with her daughter's life and reluctantly leaves her and the rest of her team behind. Of course, we learn from Yang that she has seen her mother's bird form before, and can infer that Raven still made attempts to be in her daughter's life albeit from the shadows. And to rub salt into her already gapping wounds, she had to watch her daughter call another woman "mama", and her husband fall in love and have a child with said other woman. My belief is that in order to protect herself since she was now completely alone, Raven created a facade of being the cold, prideful and antagonistic woman we met in Volumes 4 and 5. A mask she perfected over the years during her time leading the tribe, and eventually coming across the Spring Maiden. I do have a theory on that subject, which I'll briefly explain before returning to my point. Remember when Jinn was first introduced, she mentioned that she could still answer two questions? Why two instead of three? Or none at all? My initial theory was that Raven snuck into the Spring vault to find answer for herself, but after rewatching the later episode of Volume 5, I realized that Raven was seeing that place for the first time and discarded the idea. Then I remembered her commenting to Yang about her killing the previous Maiden as an act of mercy, and thought to myself: what if it was? What if the previous Maiden was tired of being kept in the dark and stole the key to the vault, snuck inside and used the Relic, and found out exactly what they were dealing with. Raven also mentioned "she was scared when we found her", and finding out that you're involved in a war with an immortal Grimm goddess is indeed a petrifying thing. Raven takes the girl in and eventually the previous Maiden discloses her findings to Raven upon learning of her past involvement with Ozpin. Then, what if after some time, she ASKS Raven to kill her? She doesn't want to spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulder because of these powers, and she certainly doesn't want to face Salem. And so Raven places another target on her back by honoring the girl's wish and ending her suffering, and becoming the new Spring Maiden as a result. Going back to what I was saying about Raven's facade: it was easy to pretend around the bandits, but that mask constantly slipped and slipped whenever Yang came around. I do agree with your theory that Raven may have been trying to be hospitable and open to Yang in her own way, but I also believe that Raven may have been acting that way on purpose in order to keep distant from Yang, and therefore keep her safe. One of those things where she'd rather Yang be alive to hate her instead of dying and loving her. But here's another issue: the danger of a lie is that when told enough times, it starts to be seen as truth. And it's likely that Raven fell victim to her own mask, her own lies, and therefore didn't even understand herself anymore. Ultimately, her plan to protect Yang fails when she (Yang) makes it clear she has no plans of backing down from Salem, and so that facade breaks and we see the grieving mother at the very center of it all. Someone who is perceived as prideful and cold, but in reality loves so hard that she's willing to put herself through two decades worth of emotional pain in order to protect her family - even if they hate her for her methods. I'm not 100% certain if we'll ever see Raven in the second half of Volume 8, but if we do, I really hope for some insight into her past, whether it be through flashback sequences or a talk she has with Yang or Tai, or both. I'm a little conflicted as to if she could still be lurking in Patch, or if she flew somewhere else after teleporting to Tai to escape Haven. Lately I'm assuming the latter since she now has no one at all, but I'm not completely dismissing the former yet. Anyways, I loved this video so much :) keep up the good work, Eruption, and have a happy new year! Edit: I forgot to mention this, but I think part of Yang's sudden change in attitude towards Raven is a result of Tai and Qrow's tones whenever they gave her information about her mother. Tai and Qrow knew Raven very well and her sudden disappearance hurt and angered them both, and like you mentioned: Yang initially only felt sadness and curiosity about Raven because she didn't know anything about her. A person's tone of voice when talking about someone else can really effect how another person views them, and I think that's what's going on with Yang: she's acting on Tai and Qrow's anger and hostility, not her own. Additionally, remember in Known By Its Song when Yang and Weiss were talking to Raven, and Yang asked why they should believe her? Raven's reply was: "Now you're catching on. So far you've done nothing but accept what other people tell you, but you need to question everything." We know that she was talking about Yang blindly believing Ozpin, but what if there was a double meaning to that? What if she was trying to say, "Don't judge me based on what others have told you, ask questions and judge me for yourself."?
Have you ever heard the saying 20 words or less because if all this is your justification for Raven not being a shitty character than you are overcompicating
“Team RWBY doesn’t rise up to new heights they tear others down” that is an excellent summary of one of the biggest problems of the show. The best comparison is RWBY vs the ASOPs next to the Genin vs the Sound four in Naruto. Where the characters have to pull out all the stocks and push themselves to breaking to defeat an more experienced and powerful foe. Earning their victories with cost. While RWBY brushes the ASOPs as side with no effort or consequences.
@@delusionaldreamer8332 alot of people, myself included usually only point out the negative effects of this while also mistaking or neglecting where the show does it right, the writers are not great but they aren't the spawn of Satan either. Its eye opening and refreshing to see videos like this that point that fact out.
You actually blew my mind. Somehow I never realized the bird was supposed to be Raven. I always wanted a STRQ spinoff that showed how Summer dies and Raven becomes angry and jaded because she blames Ospin for Summer's death. Then she could kill the last maiden out of mercy because she was already dying and to keep the bad guys from getting the maiden powers. Then maybe she's somewhat attracted to Tai because of his positive outlook on life, but ultimately she can't get over her grief and leaves because she's afraid that if she becomes too attached to people they will die too. I also always thought that the moon was shattered because of Summer and Salem because of the songs Red Like Roses Part 2 and Sacrifice. "For eternity I'm shattered. But Baby please don't do what I did, I don't want you to waste your life in vain." "The moon will sadly watch the roses die in vain." I actually really liked Volume 4. They just spent too much time having Team RNJR travel.
Finally, someone said it! I love Raven. I really do. She's exactly the type of character I get drawn to, but she's treated like the opposite of a Mary Sue. Instead of the plot bending to show nothing but unconditional love and support around an empty character, we see the plot bending to hate a character that has more complications than there are specks of sand in a sand dune. Raven is, quite frankly, the most human character in the series and she personifies one of the most overlooked issues in writing, that almost no character is as complicated as a real person. I have seen videos that do nothing but tear a character down and pointing out every so-called flaw without even considering that they are judging based on something that just isn't going to happen. Raven is one of the most hated characters that I have seen, but I disagree. I like Raven! I like her complexity, her mystery, I like her as a character, and as a person because she's proof that walking such a thin line is possible. Raven has a foot in both worlds. And I don't mean good and evil, but past and present. #ILoveRaven
All the pieces were in place, and they took her in a completely different direction. It’s one of the most frustrating aspects of this show. So much potential, and nothing ever comes of it.
So honest question who else at one point was starting to tear up when the Violet Evergarden music started to play? Cause I'm man enough to admit I was and honestly I dearly wish that Raven had an auto memory doll, someone like violet who can listen to her story and transform it into something beautiful that expressed her actual feelings.....holy shit. EruptionFang your basically an Auto memory doll. Oh sure this isn't the exact same thing but you were able to watch Raven's story, understand her feelings and then using this video express them into something beautiful that *others* could actually understand. Wow this might actually be one of my favorite RWBY video's of all time.
@@mochafrappawhat It's a darn catch 22, isn't it? If they bring her back, they'll most likely ruin what little we got, and if they don't she's forever stuck in that mess of a volume.
@@kodymcbride6901 Precisely. If her story ends that and there, that means her character arc is stuck at stalking her ex-husband. Lol, their has to be more. But on the other hand, how does she fit in with the current story? Seriously, the writing has dug her character in a hole.
She's definitely gonna come in at the last minute to sacrifice herself in order to save her daughter Yang. Seems like one of the obvious plot points for a character like her.
Yang has a navel which means birth the mammalian way. Avians have yolk sac scars which heal almost completely so no Egg Yang. Though I would assume being pregnant prevents Raven from turning into a raven but that will remain an open-ended question.
In the scene with the spring maiden vault yang is projecting onto her mother raven, these are all the things that she blames Blake for and wants to say to her but instead of doing do she paints her mother as Blake and thusly lashes out at her in the wrong. Is raven a coward? No, she has every right to be afraid and she is doing Everything that she possibly can to make sure that salem doesn't win. In ravens life everyone around her has used her by manipulation and she desperately does not want that pattern to continue. What if an enemy or salem used yang as a means to control raven? That is probably a thought that has crossed her mind, what if the bad guy uses my loved ones in order to use my capabilities for something evil? The only way to avoid that scenario would be to leave , it would mean being forced to leave loved ones behind and be utterly alone, I think that's what raven did. She left not because she wanted to, but because she had to. There are thousands of theives and being a leader to those thrives would be great cover but it wouldn't be a life that she would want for her loved ones heck she might have actually tried to convince them to go with her but was turned away. In a way raven was glad to see that her loved ones were safe and sound even though it meant painting her as horrible person, sometimes in order to do the right thing you have to be recognized as a villian.
I enjoyed the video. Honestly I find Raven one of the most justifiable characters from RWBY. Her being a maiden is actually surprisingly good justification for a lot of her actions. 1. Abandoning Yang, Tai, Qrow, etc. Not safe to be a maiden as is even worse for those around her. And if she died the beloved daughter may become the maiden. 2. Saying she wants to kill Qrow. What better way to get the villains to believe you want to join them than to target someone you "abandoned." 3. Not wanting to be a part of Ozpin's cause. By becoming a maiden she becomes more powerful but now has a huge target on her back versus an unstoppable force. Before she could abandon the cause if she wanted but by being a maiden she is always a major target. Let's face it if she had stayed eventually she would watch those close to her sacrifice themselves for her and the cause. So overall becoming a maiden easily justifies leaving because it puts her and those around her in too much danger.
Let not forget that she could have told Qrow what she was planning but she didn't because she didn't care if Qrow or Yang live or die it was all about her.
She is probably one of my favorite characters, simply because of all of her potential. I know that she will 99.9% never be written to actually reach that potential, but one can hope...plus, her entire aesthetic, power, weapon, etc. just exudes badassery.
I suppose, especially with cinders horrible writing and her quest for power. When I first watch rwby in 2018 I thought after volume 3 they would build on cinders character. But no, we get it in volume 8
Considering how Yang barely seems to care for her sister in favor of Blake nowadays I can't even say her not caring about running into Raven after all this time searching is out of character for her. That's how miserable her character is.
My mind is blown by your incredible analysis of Raven. Just shows just how much time and effort you've put into this video to show your viewers this amazingly detailed explanation.
Monty Oum, even tough he had the original idea, never was the sole creator. Not even the only writer for the show. i don't get why people can't understand that 😐 Of course he had a ton to bring to the show. And his unfortunate fate shook the whole team and the show deeply, as it should. But you can't just say that without him the ship has lost the captain, it's just on a different course. Gone too soon though, rest in peace💔
@@Circusmaid They changed a lot immediately after he died, like retconning the V2 ending with Raven, and completely changing Winter's design (who was originally based off of Monty's wife)
Basically any character who is an antagonist or isn't automatically on the side of the main characters, who's character intro painted them as a nuanced character or the very least having a complicated past, is retconed into being an unforgivable asshole who had no justifiable or understandable reason as to why they did what they did. Adam and Ironwood looking at raven like: first time.
Honestly, I don’t mind the paths these characters went down, it’s merely the fact how they’re painted as unforgivable monsters by both the writers and the viewers that I despise. Moreso Ironwood and Raven tho, I don’t mind Adam becoming the arsehole he was, just take out his obsession with Blake and then we’re golden.
Ironwood is still a complex man thats more of an anti villain than a straight up villain, (same with Raven), that doesnt undo the fact that he was a potential "dictator in the making" even back in his debut volume, just like Raven´s main flaw is Pride, Ironwood main flaw from the start has been Control and Paranoia. I also dont care how the show tries to paint him or other characters (I didnt even noticed at first), anyone with common sense will make their own impressions anyway.
@@ayar2 to be honest I didn’t really like either character that much at first but that was when I just started getting into the show and just accepted everything it did, when I actually started looking deeper was around a Volume 6. Looking back I can understand why people thought Iromwood was a paranoid control freak but I merely see him as someone to take action as soon as a threat is identified, when the Ozluminati heard about a group in Mt. Glenn he wanted to flush them out before they become too much of a threat which is understandable and when he brought along his army, even though I won’t deny it bit him HARD in the arse but to be fair the hacking wasn’t something he could’ve predicted, which I can appreciate to be a shield for the people and a sword against his enemies. Ironwoods main downside was that he was too different from the Ozluminati, too militaristic, I feel like they never really gave him a chance beyond his place in the group and when they actually called upon his army was when shit hit the fan, it didn’t sit right with me.
@@jjjwhovian his intentions had always been good, but his head on approach to every problem made him easier to spot from a mile away, and also easy to deceive, not to mention his trust issues, while we eventually learned that it isnt wise to fully trust Ozpin, he didnt even trusted his own council, only the ace ops, penny and winter, basically the only ones that are unconditionally loyal to him, which to a certain extent is clever, but also ensures that no one will ever challenge him on decision making, depriving him from an outside look that could surely spot any flaws or mistakes in his plans.
@@jjjwhovian I used to just wonder what pushed Ironwood down this path. Then I heard the song 'Hero' and found out about his Semblance. Now I just want someone to save him from that hell already. When you put his song and Semblance together, out paints quite a frightening picture. In case you didn't know, his Semblance is 'Mettle'. Essentially, it hardens his resolve to a certain end. It's passive though, so he's can't really control it.
I enjoyed Raven when she was on screen. She was a character presented that was strong, but not some bag of sunshine. She wasn't your 'friend', but she didn't seek out to hurt you either. She still had a very loose connection to her family. I always imagined that her role as a Leader to her group and her duty bound to it kept her desiring to stay with said group. She could have easily brought Yang into that life, but didn't. She gave Yang to a family who could love and protect her. While even appearing that one time when Yang was in dire need. She is complicated because you don't always agree with what she is doing. Raven can incite negative emotions in people who know her because of how stubborn she is. I was upset learning about some of the things she did and why, but at the same time I understood. She's not dangerous because of maliciousness. Just dangerous because her methods aren't always following some sort of good moral compass. I'm sure if Yang was going to die again, and Raven knew this, then she might come to her aid. BUT only if Raven didn't believe that other forces could help Yang. Complicated, Powerful, Dangerous, and at the same time.. Confusing. I'm sure she'll play a bigger role later on if she's not already forgotten. Like Launch from Dragon Ball.
You'd think that, given what Yang knows about Salem now vs in Volume 5, that Yang might be more sympathetic to Raven's aversion to fighting her. Y'know, since Ozpin roped Raven into this fight while having no actual plan to defeat her.
I'm trying to revive Raven in my fanfic. I had to go as far as to create her backstory and tried to make her a much more human and understandable character.
@@kodymcbride6901 Here you go: m.fanfiction.net/s/13480162/1/ If you want to skip to the chapters that have Raven in it, she's in chapter 9, the first section of 11, the set up for Act 4, and chapters 13, 14, and 15* (I put an asterisk on 15 because it hasn't been posted yet, but it will be later today). Also there might be some strong language and graphic violence in parts. Also it's a fanfic based off Team SLVR, but Raven is a key figure in this volume. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. And if you have any feedback, that is always welcomed because I know my story likely has some rough patches in it. And lastly, thank you for taking an interest in my story.
I feel like the best show to compare RWBY to is Steven Universe. The issue with Steven Universe is, like RWBY, force literally everything that happens in the entire lore of the show to be about Steven Universe. Anything that makes a character unique or complex in that show is compromised because they have to give in to Steven's character. I feel like ruining Raven's character was the start of Yang's character being ruined.
I loved this video. Definitely a great watch and perfect timing since RWBY Vol. 8 is taking a break until Feb. I would love more videos discussing the misconceptions/misunderstanding of our main cast of characters 👍
Raven is my favorite Rooster Teeth character and this video is more important than you think. It’s unbelievable someone feels the same way that I could cry. This fan base gives me shit for loving Raven as much as I do and this helped me in you nor anyone else will understand.
"She said she saved you once, and you shouldn't expect that kindness again." Am I the only one who heard Qrow say that, and immediately believed Raven was saying "Don't get complacent thinking I can save you every time. I might not be there one day." with that line? Like, she could and would save Yang again if she had the option, but doesn't want Yang to rely on her too heavily, and instead for her to stand as her own fighter?
I honestly don't know what Miles and Kerry were thinking with that line. I don't know if they wanted to write Raven to be an uncaring bitch, or something closer to what you said. But a part of me likes to think Raven has been extra avoidant since she became the spring maiden so she talks like that to keep people off her trail and to encourage people to not talk to her. 💅
The biggest defense I have to this comes from a more personal level. As a writer myself I have story I have been developing for over 10 years, and due to my busy schedule with work I have never found the time to actually write down or give any concept art for the story I am telling. All I have is the brief times, while with my closest friends, telling them my ideal concept. Giving them the plot in a very condensed version. It is because of this I have always suffered with my greatest fear, passing away before I can make this story a reality, sure I have informed several people of the story but I have never given anyone the broken down intonement details of each character and how they operate in the world I have created. If I had an unfortunate accident and Travis Mark or Jack were to try to tell the story I have written, they would not be able to delve into the complexity of each character. Characters like Candra and Alex may be perceived as villains even though they are more anti heroes that have development over the series. So yeah although they have taken Raven in a wrong direction, I understand how that could be possible as the original mind behind the character passed away before his story could be heard.
I just realized both Adam and Raven were ruined with a "I'm not here for you" line. Coincidence, I think not...unironicall. Both are edgy characters linked to protagonists who have unsolved business with them. The writers used that line twice because their reaction when they see a character like that is to knock down their importance. Similar to how every time a character fights someone from Atlas, they talk about them thinking they are too important and complains about them being rich. Since their writing skill is so limited, they default to their prejudices when dealing with a character that isn't a protagonist.
Yang calls Raven a coward for running away from her problems.....but where was this energy with Blake? Like, yeah Yang was upset with Blake, but where was the lecture to Blake? Why wasn't Blake called out? Oh yeah, can't upset the Bumblebee ship. So Blake was automatically forgiven.
Yeah. Worst part: In Volume 1, Yang literally *purred* at the sight of shirtless boys. Seriously, RT misinterpreted the fandom's love for the Bumblebee ship and they just shoehorned it in, completely forgetting the traits that contradicted this, i.e. the girls' heteroromantic alignment.
I think the reason she became so untrusting of everyone should lie with whatever happened to Summer. Same way we theorize Qrow blames himself for Summer.
For those who keep attacking Raven for leaving Yang, i wish to point out we don't know her side Qrow and Tai either don't know or won't tell us and Yang shut Raven off so why don't you clam down and wait to hear her side of the story before passing judgement.
Really love your in-depth analysis on RWBY characters, great video! Also, real quick I think you're mistaken with the second music you credited. The song is Watashi No Uso from Your Lie in April. (at 1:23)
I'm really glad you made this video. I always saw Raven as a much more complex character then people think. It really makes me feel better that there are others that can see past what we see and that there are more to a person than we think
I have followed your channel for years ER, and this is probably the best video of yours I've seen. This is some really eye-opening stuff and really informs how I see and write Raven from now on. The awesome part about your video, and by extension the fandom, is there's always someone who appreciates a character and sees potential where others wouldn't -- in that sense, in spite of the show's faults, the conversations around it and its characters continue to be some of the most compelling stuff an aspiring storyteller can chew into.
Raven is the most interesting character in RWBY. She runs deeper than her words and apparent attitude. She's a gift that gives when the time is right. As you said, her semblance tells us everything we need to know. Her manifestation for bonding is so strong that it gives her instant access to anyone she cares about. She has the potential to care so deeply that it becomes her greatest vulnerability. Realizing that, she tries to project out an aloof, prideful, selfish image of herself to protect others and herself. Her fate is determined by whether her enemies or those she cares about realize this.
I feel like if they wanted to take the angry daughter approach still they could. You can keep the sad and curious girl from volume 2 and when she meets Raven she can be angry but only because she doesn't know how to feel she's happy she's seeing her mom and she found her but she's sad at the same time and upset it's not under the circumstances she wanted so her sadness was missunderstood inside her and all that come out was angrynsss plus carried out anger from the fall of beacon and Adam . And they could keep everything the same except the final confrontation at heaven. She could talk about how Tai depicted Raven then acknowledge that she was angry earlier and apologize then say something like " you said you'd answer any question, so just answer why," while looking away showing that as much as Yang wants to know she scared because what if the reason is her then Raven says "I couldn't be that mother that you needed" or something relatively close and as while she's saying it the camera is on Yang like I'm the original she turned back and there's a feather they because she left and it could have a better impact we get that caring Raven looking out for her daughter with a little self doubt and with her not being able to get into her emotions she leaves before Yang could ask another question now giving us all the sense of why. Then with Team RWBY learning the truth about Salem Yang could ask Raven about her encounter with Salem so they can have a better understanding and maybe formulate a plan with Ravsn still telling them that it's a bad idea to pursue a war they can't win for their safety which may come off as doubtful but again further shows her caring in her own way about her daughter
Man, thank you a lot for making this great video. Very detailed. Raven is still one of my top 3 characters. She deserves more love Also Post-Yang belongs to the trash, just saying, don't mind me
The worst part is she is almost as hostile, towards Raven as she was towards Ruby in Volume 8, with no reason. It would make more sense that in the moment where she greeted Yang in Volume two instead of it being Yang's dream it would be Raven's, even though it looks like it's from Yang's perspective at that moment in time she was unaware of what Raven looked like therefore it would make sense from Raven's perspective and that's why when Yang see's her eyes turn red conveying she is angry, but she also asks who she is before her eyes turn red. This would convey that even though she wanted to waltz into her daughter's life and be a caring mother, she feared how she'd be precieved.
I actually really liked this video. Raven is one of my favorite characters in the show (after Neo) due to her mystery. I sincerely hope that she’s brought back in a way that truly works for both portrayals that have been made.
Doesn't help that Raven's got Adam's color pallet and similar getups early on, but most notably they ditched her at the end of 5. No return or mention of her. Though some may point Yang becoming more like her Mother in the most recent season.
One of my favorite things about Raven is her power Because I never saw it as the tool to run away with. But a power to help anyone you love at any time. No matter where you are, How far you are, I'll always be in reach.
i couln't agree more, you worded it so well!
God that is beautiful
But yet like Adam the writers are wasting good characters
I know and that is my biggest thing against how they're wasting Raven's potential as a character! She has a semblance that let's her reach those she loves in merely seconds, regardless how far apart they are! Someone with a power like that only using it to save themselves from harm? No, something like implies she SHOULD have a deep and strong loyalty to those she loves and cares for. It could even explain why the Branwen tribe never wanted to go after Qrow when he abandons the Tribe, because Raven who is their leader forbid them to out of love for her brother deep inside, but on the outside uses the excuse of him being too strong to make them think twice.
For Yang, it's a motherly love that will always have an eye out for her only flesh and blood daughter. Despite the supposed rule of her's.
For Taiyang, for her to STILL have a portal to him can only mean she MUST still love and care for him.
So for Roosterteeth to waste her potential as someone who CAN have a great redemption arc is just sad and honestly, infuriating. Hell, the RWBY visual novel, JPDE, DOES Raven and Adam better than Rooster Teeth EVER had!
Edit: Yeah, Eruptionfang proves a point. Redemption maybe be a big need, though I would like to see it not in apologizing, but in her saving Yang and Qrow, as well as the writers FINALLY justifying her stances on things. To show her love and concern for Qrow and Yang especially as someone trying to open their eyes to how messed up Ozma's war with Salem truly is.
It is a cool power. But it works one-sidedly.
"I'll always be in reach, but I have to be the one to reach out."
to me the weirdest character is summer, yang forgot about her even through she raise her, tai never mention her, ruby see's her like the best mom in the world but she shouldn't have any memories of her and salem knows about her too in like a personal matter non less???
Yeah, according to Yang, Ruby was a toddler when Summer died meaning Ruby should barely remember her, heck with Yang being only 2 years older than Ruby, Yang should also barely have any memories of Summer because she'd be around 4 or 5 when Summer died
I would’ve liked Yang more if she joined Ruby and Qrow’s talk about Summer back in Volume 07 if she hadn’t took silly selfies with her supposed-to-be girlfriend.
@@scythe8418 that would of been so good.
i think yang was around 8 and ruby was 6 so it is old enough to remember her
@@CILinkzSpre3 When Yang told Blake that story she called Ruby a toddler and toddlers are ages 1 to 3
If volume 4 could’ve been rewritten, so that it was Raven’s group that raided Ren’s home as opposed to solely one Grimm. The Grimm could still have showed up, but as a result of the bandits. Certainly would provide a different dynamic between Ren and Yang.
tbf, Ren called the bullshit either way so, y'know
Same
They are still at odds with each other
I honestly thought that WAS the case. they Chekhov's gun the bandit raid thing with the first village they ran into. and when ren's village came up, i was like "ok, so that's what that little scene was all about." but Nope, it was all for that one scene in the bar between Krow and Raven, and that's it.
I think that hinted in fixing rwby
Raven was honestly the best part of Volume 5 for me. Volume 5 still sucked though. Raven deserved better.
Dayum
their doing the same to iron wood making him as evil as possible so no one cares when he dies
V5 didn't suck, could've been different but didn't suck.
Nothing happened in the first half, while the last half was made up of nonsensical action. Yeah, I would say V5 was pretty bad
@@mattmortar1325 Nah.
You know, if you arrange the first letter for each of the girls moms, you get S.K.R.W.
Screw? Well I'd definitely screw them.
S.W.K.R, if we go by RWBY order. Lewd.
@@walrusaurelius4801 SWKR? So, soccer? Soccer moms are usually hot (emphasis on usually). Though, for a team name of those 4, I’d go with SKRS (scars, representing the scars of the past on each member of team RWBY). I know it’s not a color, but it’s fitting of what they represent (with Kali, she represents Blake’s past with the White Fang, which has definitely left scars on Blake’s heart), so idc.
SKWR
WRSK or Risk for me
I only just now noticed that there is a raven flying overhead at the start of the yellow trailer. That implies that Yang's mom has been watching over her since before Yang started her first year at Beacon Academy. This gives me the implications that Raven is the kind of mother who will watch from afar and jump in only whenever her child needs it
❤😊
She's so fucking cool.
I buy that she has conflict within her. Regrets. I'm interested to have seen what happened. Why she left. What her relationship with Qrow was. I get a heavy Dante and Vergil feel from them, twins whose souls are at odds because they have very different ideals. Her not wanting to get Yang mixed up with Oz and Salem's bs is honestly really understandable.
I really hope we can someday find out more about them and for her to be able to have another chance. To patch things up with her family.
What if the reason she's so scared of Salem is because she was there when Summer died..
@@RE-45. I'm pretty sure that her semblance besides portals makes her feels what connected person feel. I mean how she knows when she needs show up to save Yang? And I think she felt when Summer was dying. So she came up and saw her death (or sth like that).
Besides I have hope that she'll back in the finale of volume 8.
Honestly I can't see Raven as an antagonist or bad guy. I get she's flawed but I can sympathize with her.
@@XentusX Raven (and Ironwood) are more like Anti-Villains, with a chance of Redemption, tho Ironwood chances are getting thinner and thinner the more he's pushed against the wall in the war against Salem. but Raven has gotten the perfect chance right now as Tai saw the message and is more likely that he will coordinate with the surviving Beacon staff to do something, and whose the person able to get them to Atlas in no time? Raven.
I totally agree with you, I love her more than any other character tbh I hope to see her at the end of this volume at least TvT
Another weird and oddly poetic part of her character is that now in Volume 8 with Salem taking matters into her own hands, Raven's words and warning to Yang ring truer than ever before, which makes the fact that Raven is misunderstood and no one ever defends her that much more sad, yet poetic.
The one character who was right about Salem, the one who knew the risks first hand (we assume), and the one who is so prideful yet willing to be so vulnerable when mentioning a massive threat like Salem... is ignored. And now Team RWBY and the vast majority of the cast are running around Atlas in a panic as the truth/realization of their decision to combat Salem is right in front of them.
Had Yang asked those questions that needed to be asked and her (or someone else) listened to Raven and understood her perspective, perhaps the Heroes wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. It's another classic example of the writers ACCIDENTALLY creating an ALMOST perfect concept around Raven, but missing out on big sections of the story/characters to make total sense of it.
Amen
“I don't trust immortal, not even conceptually. Hell I’m an atheist
“wait why the fu-
Because for whatever fountain of knowledge they have, they inherently have lack one thing
empathy
Because they have separated themselves from what makes us all human
All people,
Death itself
Yang if you die you'll just be another pawn sacrifice to their Queen
But to your family they will hurt even *more* but not Oz because he's done this dance a *thousand times already*.
she strikes, he parries, he counters, she hides *repeat*
over and over again like *clockwork*.
It's pointless, it's *hopeless* honestly.
Yang, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place And even if we win that only means she'll go back into hiding and do it all over again.
and all that sacrifice would be for nothing. My death would be meaningless, *Summers* death would be meaningless, the hundreds of deads before us would be meaningless.
I don't want to waste my life on some stupid chess game between two immortal exlovers qoral
And the only way to win a game like that is
*Not to play.*
Yang: you can't just stay here
And wallow in nihilism-
Raven: How.. can.. you.. *KILL A GOD* what advantage did ozpin truly give you. cuz he sure as f*** didn't give me anything
not summer not, tai not, Qrow or evan ironwood.
(Silence in the air)
(Deep breath)
You may think I'm a coward and that's fair
But at the very least I live my life how I wanted, not as a *pawn* but a *person*.
@@anarchomando7707 This would’ve been amazing to see
@@anarchomando7707 that would have been sick to hear.
The true sad part about Yang "speech" is that not only does it not fit Raven at all....it perfectly fits Blake, the woman who abandoned her friends no matter how troubled and injured they were, the problems of the world and all the terrible things she's done just to live peacefully. Everything Yang said was true for Blake, yet not only she forgave her, she never brings it up and is her girlfriend, it's truly disgusting but hilariously ironic
t h i s
My only rebuttal to this would be that Blake has shown growth to Yang, and had been present, while Raven has been absent and, even in their first meeting at the camp, was cold and almost absent. I don't disagree, but just a little bit more context. From Yang's story in Vol 3 (I think. Whichever one Dance, Dance, Infiltration is in) it sounds like Yang only knew OF Raven but never personally knew her. I'm really hoping that with the current situation as of 3/20/2021's episode, we get some redemption on the front of Yang, Blake, and Raven.
Big difference though is Blake is a teenager, its natural for a teen to runaway after being traumatized / etc, as for Raven is a fully grown adult/huntress and her mother.
Its because the fans dont care as long as its Bumblebee
@@Xgendude14 no. I don't give a shit about Bumblebee and it still isn't equivocal.
FINALLY someone else takes a defense on Raven. The "Raven isn't actually a bad character" camp is way too small lol.
100th like and i highly agree.
I agree
i mean bruh she is a bandit, and her introduction was taking weiss captive to sell to her dad, that isnt exactly the best first impression plus she really was shove4d under the rug leaving people only with that first impression and nothing much to draw from
@@mychanel35 I mean BrUh.. that wasn't even her INTRODUCTION into the show??.. we also had plenty to go off of for her character before Weiss was captured. It also just means she's a bad PERSON, not neccessary a bad CHARACTER. RWBY fans clearly don't understand that idea because anyone who hurts the feelings of our title Waifu's deserve hatred apparently. This fandom is so dumb I swear.
I wasn't a RWBY fanatic who immediately hated her because she wasnt on our hero's side of things and was corrupt. "let WeISs gO, YoU AbAnDOnED YaNg!". I didn't think that way. I was more interested in learning about her and why she is the way she is. What she values, what she's afraid of, how much she cares for Yang but shows it in different ways. A character who cares about her daughter but values herself more because of her upbringing is very fascinating. A group of naive characters who all think the exact same way (minus Ren) when it comes to righteousness is extremely boring.
She's a far more interesting character than Qrow I'll tell you that!.
@@hypeman1825 You have my respect, man.
You know I have this theory that Raven saw what happened to summer which is why she is so afraid of Salem like she was looking for Summer and used her semblance only to find Salem and Summer fighting she saw Summer lose and fled. This may be the reason that she is trying to warn Yang because she doesn’t want her to suffer the same fate Summer did
that looks like it could possibly be true. Raven seems to be the only one of STRQ to be scared of Salem/knows what she’s capable of. Qrow doesn’t the same insight as Raven towards Salem. We don’t even know what Taiyang thinks of Salem. If memory serves, when Emerald makes an illusion of Salem, Qrow reacts just like everyone else, scared of the unexpected. Ozpin says that it’s a good representation of Salem, but Qrow doesn’t agree or anything(at least I don’t remember.)
I honestly think the same thing. I think Raven does care about her family, but also wants to protect them by staying away because of Salem-I also think her upbringing wasn’t exactly warm and fuzzy so having a traditional domesticated life is not in her nature-so she can’t be the mom Yang wants. Hopefully Raven will come back and tell her side of the story (maybe Yang will listen to this time-bit with an angsty teen-it’s hard to say).
i mean if what Ruby thinks Salem did to Summer is true and if Raven did see that....yeah i wouldnt be surprised at all why Raven is so terrified
I believe that Raven joined Summer on her last mission and they both encountered Salem and some of her lieutenants like Hazel or Watts
Well, you certainly should check out the ending of a new volume :)
I really wanted them to expand more with Yang and Raven relationship more with the abandonment issues,since she still cares about her mom more than anything, but now we have that with Blake for some odd reason.
facts.. they were going with BlakexSun but because fanbase pressured the team for BlakexYang, Blake and sun never happened which made me very sad. I don't have anything against the Blake and yang relationship but it just was so forced imo- sun was there for Blake at her side and understood a lot of Blake's emotions better than yang too. i would have loved for more mother-daughter development and understanding behind Raven's motives. Hopefully we'll get more of that in the future. I feel like Monty wanted Raven to be played off as a good mum etc without the angsty attitude which they suddenly implemented after Monty's death to their own liking , in reference to Yang meeting Raven the first time and was friendly to her and such. But when she met her mother again at the encampment - she wasn't very uhh. how should I say this.. ''welcoming'' as she was shown in the post credit scene. A lot of inconsistencies.
@@aubs5495 for real, like it was obvious that Blake was originally going to end up with Sun, but the fan base even some of the youtuber and staff, have pressure them into doing it, like they already have a couple of gay character already in a relationship in the show, why force those who weren't supposed to be one.
@@aubs5495 and I totally agree with you with Raven, especially after the volume 5 ending that got texting hard in Volume 7.
Kinda funny, since post-V3 Blake and Raven do resemble each other. Both run away, both abandoned Yang, and both want to be alone (even if deep down they might not want to)
@@ednacole7148 Blake was not obligated to stay with Yang, and thus was not abandonment
I honestly think they’ll pull a “redemption equals death” with her in later seasons, and if they do I’ll be mad because that trope is the worst choice they could do but with the way they left her it’s the only thing they can do
I hope not. Raven doesn’t need redemption. She doesn’t even need forgiveness. She just needs her daughter to know she cares. I still hope Raven does show up in Vol 8 Maybe to save Qrow since it doesn’t look like team RWBY are going to.
Her Semblance is perfect for that.
Suddenly she’s here!
SUDDENLY SHE DED...
I legitimately believe that’s why the dark shot of Yang is there in the volume 8 opening.
I could see her coming to save Yang if they go into Mostra and fail.
Standing up to Salem & losing her maiden power to Cinder so that Cinder can become relevant power creep wise again.
RWBY getting the Staff of Creation but losing the spring maiden power to Conder seems liked a balanced ending to the volume.
@@thelegendaryevergas just realized if they kept in touch with Raven it could of been like. Yo qe need a pickup. Then just evacuate everyone through her portal. Boom season 8 over...
Unless every individual going through the portal uses up her stamina/aura... then just use Jaune as a powerup. Boom! Still good.
I think that's going to be Ironwood's thing. We'll see what they do with Raven later.
It weirds me out that Qrow and Ruby have more of a relationship than with his ACTUAL niece, Yang.
Edit: I know that blood doesn't mean a closer bond, but in RWBY, Yang and Qrow RARELY talk or interact, giving the impression that they have no relationship or connection at all, but Qrow has been a part of Yang’s life more than raven ever was, so shouldn't there be something there?
Edit 2: omg thanks for 1k likes and agreeing with me!
I did realize that when I was watching this video. I know the whole theory about "Qrow was Ruby's father" was debunked and all. But throughout the series, I don't blame them considering that given what we've seen.
Blood doesn't really equal a closer bond, but yeah, they're still family regardless so it's pretty weird that he interacts with one of them more instead of both.
It's not weird just because their blood connected dose not mean a closer bond.
He trained her Ruby has the same weapon and the same basic personality Yang is more like a light hearted Raven.
well, Qrow DID trained Ruby, while Taiyang trained Yang, that explains why she seems to be closer to their dad than ruby to the point of making harsh comments and taking them in strides.
@@crucialstormxyz9352 I still won't believe he ain't her pops till we get a paternity test done!
One thing I wished they did with Raven is having her play a role in helping Yang overcome her PTSD. You could really play into Raven's design similarity with Adam where Yang would see a flash of him the first time she meets with Raven.
I always has the head canon before watching volume 5 that Adam was trained by raven, explaining his look, weapon choice and Grimm mask and I thought that’s why yang was going to raven because she knew everything about Adam in an attempt to try and overcome him. Think rwby as a whole should be labelled the show of missed opportunities I’ve never in my life wanted a show to just change stuff so much
I never thought of that and now I’m so mad
@@cbbartman1360 Having a relationship between Adam and Raven is an interesting idea. I have never been bothered by them not having one and always though of it as coincidence.
Most of the changes the show needs are minimalistic. Twiins iink has a pretty good video on Adam.
Some other ideas I have for Yang and Raven.
After Yang calms down, Raven knows Yang isn't ready, summons a portal, and coldly gives her a choice, be sent back to Tai and mope in bed or live with the tribe and become stronger to not fear/take revenge against Adam.
The two of them go together to a hot spring. The path to it is filled with grimm and requires Yang's emotions to be in check. Have Yang wear her mom's outfit and helmet. Once we get there have them connect a little and have Raven answer some of Yangs questions.
I would really love a Raven and Vernal vs Yang and Weiss where the maiden powers are in use and Vernal is wearing a mask to keep the Maiden mystery. It would play to Yang's conflict with Raven, Yang would overcome her Adam visions during the fight, and it would give them experience in fighting the Maidens. The fight would end with Yang getting a clean semblance punch to Raven breaking her mask and unknowingly stopping the maiden powers.
Reading this and replies, now I got playing out how it could have gone at the fall of Beacon, Yang and Blake verses Adam. Adam is fending them both off and Blake, thinking she should be fighting him alone, is also trying to get Yang away. Adam shoves Blake back and twists, taking off Yang's arm. Yang falls and starts trying to drag herself away, pained and heavy breathing. Blake tries to overtake Adam only to get knocked back into a wall, could even have in doing this his sword cuts her side if want to keep that tiny scar they show in Vol 6. As Yang shoots her remaining gauntlet, a portal opens and an elemental blade strike hits Adam from the side before he can finish Yang, as Blake would be trying to collect herself dur to injury and broken aura. Blake in shock looks over to see this swirling red portal close, and this woman in red wearing a Grimm mask with a long sword beside her. Raven, keeping an eye on a recovering Adam says "Take her." and Blake snaps out of her shocked daze. She winces and rushes over, grabbing Yang and runs. Adam snarls at Raven. "Next time you won't be so fast in defending oppressors." or something. And Raven doesn't flinch. "And I'll remove you from that title once taken." to Adam. That could, if keep the eh weird shift path they took him in, to foreshadow her seeing a want for power to make his desires a reality faster, and him taking over Cianna's (I don't remember how her name his spelled, tiger lady) faction of the White Fang in Vol 5.
@@cbbartman1360 but if Adam was trained by a human then he wouldn’t despise humans so much
I just love how Yang beings up that she's seen Ravens bird form often enough that she can actually tell it apart from all the other ravens.
That should have given her a hint that Raven was keeping a close eye on her.
One of my biggest hopes for the future is Yang and Tai somehow meeting up with Yang eventually mentioning Raven in a negative attitude to Tai just for him to aggressively defend her and criticize Yang for her narrow-mindedness. Would it be hard to fit Tai going to Vacuo or Yang going home? absolutely, but I think that might be the only way for any of the three of them to show some sort of development.
dont forget that both Qrow and Tai warned Yang about Raven´s complex nature before giving her leads of how to find her, Yang being cautious and passive-agressive with her was because of that, The way I see it is that Yang was too afraid to be right about her mother´s true nature, and Raven, while trying her best to be nice, was forgetting an essential part when trying to patch a damaged relation, humility. (by contrast, Willow Schnee wasnt the best of Moms either, but she always acknowledged that and showed remorse about it in front of Weiss)
@@ayar2 That's definitely fair a different way to think about it that I'll think about. I was more referring to Yang telling Tai something along the lines of "Raven is just a self-centered coward who only cares about herself." This leading to Tai arguing to Yang about all the things EF talked about, and asking Yang if Raven doesn't care about her, then why is there enough of a deep emotional connection for there to be a portal between the two.
I definitely understand your point and both their failures with communication with the last few times they met need to be addressed next time they meet.
@@ayar2 Good point but I do think there was a better way for Yang to act when with Raven. Yang herself wasn't really angry at her mom in the past, the way Qrow talked about her wasn't really negative either (sure the thing he was asked to relay to Yang may have been cold but his tone when talking about her wasn't negative or cold), and Tai thinks of Raven quite fondly. I imagine minus Qrow, Tai's attitude is the reason behind Yang's sad curiosity we saw initially so it's kinda weird to see her have such a combative attitude towards Raven. Then again she had just lost her arm and the person she risked her life for just ran away so I suppose it would explain something but eh.....
Well I guess we’ll never know.
Seeing as how the series is basically dead.
I’m well aware of Raven being one of the worst characters, but she’s always been one of my favorites
Saaaame. 😢😭
Me too lmao
Honestly same
She's quite possibly the best visually designed character in the show
@@reecelongden3500 same
Omg this is like the longest rwby video he's ever done.
The season 6 review was pretty long too
But this was also one of the best. I didn't really care or understand Raven, but this video really highlights what RWBY could have been. How many characters were wasted
And one of the best
@@donny1333 i always liked her a lot. This video just puts into words why
I mean for this subject you can see why tho
Well that's a running theme in rwby. Make everyone look weak so the mcs look strong.
Painfully accurate
the first 2 season was fun, everyone was OP, literally, watch all monty animation. now all are weak
@@valentds Monty Rwby is pretty different from Post Monty Rwby.
That's my biggest problem with the writing for RWBY, no one can't call out team RWBY's BS without being a villain/villain-like or being lectured by these teenagers who don't have the same experiences as the adults around them. I don't mind ideals clashing, but at this point it's getting so stupid now that the FNDM sucks it in like "deep lore" and tell you that you aren't a real fan cause you call out the huge flaws.
Honestly that was probably one of the biggest reasons why I liked the newest episodes. The blue haired Happy Huntress (huh neat her name is my birth month) outright tells them that they need to pick a side because no matter what they do they can't save everyone. Makes it even better when the girls don't have any idea what they should actually do.
That’s why I hope the fix it with the schneeblings, and have us *ACTUALLY* see some abuse, other than causing her children fear, and slapping his daughter in the face. Maybe actually show some of their childhood
Amen.
Oh I totally agree with you, mate. I dove deep into the RWBY lore trying to find out more about the characters, Grimm, and the world itself. But with how much information is portrayed, and how they write off characters so simple, it’s hard to really reconcile with “die-hard” RWBY fans.
I still say that whole bit where RWBY calls out Qrow because he was against the stealing a ship plan as a good example of what you said.
"The character she is in modern day is plagued by pride, the unreasonable sense of self importance, utter arrogance and believing your way is the right way. Believing in only your own abilities and not in that of others. Always looking down on them."
We still talking about Raven here or we talking about team RWBY?
Painfully accurate
We still talking about Team RWBY here or we talking about the fandom?
@@siobhannoble8545 Yes
I know right?
Shit. I kind of see Spec Ops: The Line with team RWBY. They end up causing atrocities and then they blame others. Like Ironwood. The man was stressed enough as is, and then he lost any and all support from outside forces because they kept denying the truth?
This is possibly the greatest character study of the RWBY series ever
It would be opening scars but...
One for Monty’s Adam Taurus?
@@Ramsey276one Yes
@@Ramsey276one Some fiction write Adam like Monty's Adam more , like Dark Crimson Messiah
@@rishi5297 thanks for the info!
You make a good point. I think a lot of opportunities were missed with characters just because some fans want to see RWBY hold hands and dance in a circle all the time. Its also why the main characters often seem to be part of a hive mind.
Alternate title: “the psychology of Raven Branwen”
45 minutes of my favourite character.
You made my Christmas much better.
Raven is best girl
I'm trying to revive or at least improve the character in part of my fanfic after the writers tore her down to make Yang look better
agreed
@@HoV326 ah, I made a redemption idea in the comments lol. Good luck!
@@justapotato1176 If you want, would you like me to give you the link? I could really use the feedback if you want to give any
Without Monty Oum anybody can/could now add their own garbage to the characters e.g Blake is now a representation of everything that Arryn Zech was confused about in her high school days...The Raven we see nowadays is not the Raven we would have seen if Monty was around
honestly? Yeah. Most of the new writers don't really know anything about what Monty wanted for the show whatsoever, and last I checked, Miles and Kerry (who actually did know) are both gone. Which is just kinda depressing, since the concept is good, great even, but the constant addition and subtraction of writers ever since Monty's untimely death has destroyed it. Like, even if Monty had weird habits for making the show, he still had amazing ideas at least. Now they've just got kinda.....shoddy ideas with shoddy execution.
@@caesarin0 true dat
@@caesarin0 wait, are Miles and Kerry not working on the show anymore?
@@Emily-px7yr last I heard, they've both left.
@@caesarin0 if you look at the post credits for some episodes in volume 8, they are both still writing the story/episodes and Juane is voiced by one of them. I don't understand what you mean.
The part where you talk about how it looks like Raven did try to be a good mom in the tent (and that adorable "good mom" checklist lol) really opens my eyes to her character the most. Thinking about it, Raven only had a series of options regarding Yang and the ones she chose make perfect sense. She was raised by people who should never have influence on a child, and they made Raven who she is. Of course she won't feel like she'll make a good mom. But for a time, she really really wanted to be with Tai, and anyone who's felt that way knows how heart-tearing and stressful it is to fight/ignore. So she could 1. just never be with him and keep ignoring it forever, and do the same for any other guy she ever meets and likes, for the rest of her life, 2. she could be with him but demand they stay celibate (lol), or 3. she could take the chance it might lead to a baby. I don't know how people can blame her for not picking one of the first two options. As it turns out, she made a baby, and now she has three more options. 1. Try to force herself to be that "good mom" image she knows about, who teaches good morals and is kind to her little girl (which she was sure she would fail), 2. just be herself as a mom, teaching her daughter how to be an a reprehensible person with gross morals, which is all she knew, or 3. leave the parenting to Tai, a "good dad," and go back to where she can be herself freely without ruining a kid in the process. Based on her upbringing and the morals and values she was taught, how can people not expect her to choose the third option? She probably believed Yang would be fine and should just be strong cuz life's tough, and so she just left. That's the kind of morals Raven's always been taught after all. Honestly Crow should be a rougher person too. Especially with his semblance guaranteeing awful treatment his whole life.
Yesss!!! She weighed her options and chose what she thought was right. It probably broke her heart to leave a man she loved and their proof of love but she knew herself and didnt want to influence Yang or have her be like her. She knew that Yang was going to be in good hands and be taught to be strong in a way that Raven wasnt taught.
This day keeps getting better and better! I agree. Qrow really ought to be the more jaded one, but it's Raven. It means there had to be some kind of difference between them, and the fact that we have no idea what really bums me.
Idk I feel like we're cutting her too much slack. I agree with what yang said to her at the end of volume 5. She turns her back on people when things get too rough and she rationalizes those decisions by saying she's being strong or doing what's best for her tribe. At some point the tribe excuse gets old. Especially when that said tribe are creepy thieving and killing bullies that literally only think of themselves. Tribes are just smaller villages so what's stopping them from being honest civilians who don't raid and leave towns at the mercy of grim. It's not like they have to worry about actual discrimination like the faunus. I know its not like talking about but my goodness if she really cares about her tribe and family, she would modify their way of life so she wouldn't have to make choices like leaving her own baby.
@@melodrama5701 I mean just because it makes sense for her character that those are the choices she made and we can rationalize the choices she made doesnt mean we agree with her. yes she is a bad mom and she has done awful things and needs to be help accountable for what she has done, but that doesnt mean we cant understand how she got there, being able to glean the why while still holding a character to their actions in a narrative is good writing.
@@melodrama5701 But again, consider the people from who's she's from, not good people with good morales, then she met Ozpin, then thought she was really doing some good in the world, then learned the awful truth about Salem being unkillable, effectively rendering everything she's done under Ozpin a bit useless since no matter how hard or how long she fights, Salem always come back, and Salem can just wait for her to die of old age since she's immortal and continue her work, while Raven will just have delayed maybe a little bit her plans and nothing more in the grand schemes of things. That's what Raven understood from her point of view when she learned the truth about Ozpin and Salem, so at the end, she was like, nothing matters anymore so she left, maybe without Yang knowing she would probably have all her teammates plus Ozpin on her back, which after knowing the truth she didn't want that, so she left, kept tabs on Yang and Tai by watching them in her bird form, while also leaving Yang with a good father that would take care of her and not a cynical, thieving, murdering woman like she was. Her asking her daughter to join her and leave Salem's war was done on the account that she knew her daughter fighting Salem would results only in death since Salem is immortal so she wanted to spare Yang a pointless death, though Yang doesn't see it that way, but like not even Ozpin has a good idea on how to defeat Salem for good, so honestly, not gonna blame Raven for thinking fighting for him against Salem is pointless. Now, Raven at the end accepts her daughter is more brave than her and accepts (even if she doesn't like it) her choice to continue fighting Salem, while apologizing to her. Raven knows she has no authority on Yang to force her to do anything she doesn't want with her never been around in her life at all so. But also, Raven wasn't raised with the same rules, laws and morales as us. While thinking about how Qrow also got the same upbringing than her, he has a different semblance that makes him stay away from his loved ones less they get bad luck against his will and that he has no control over, unlike her who can get close to people she has a connection to whenever she wants without any problem whatsoever, Raven learned the truth years ago, Qrow learns it during the series and it took him a long time to get over it, maybe if he had learned it at the same time as Raven he would have joined her back to their tribe too. Now, for her to choose the tribe over Tai and Yang, maybe she asked him to come with her, he refused, so she decided to leave, not wanting to stick around to see him die in a pointless war, unlike her tribe who was just minding their own buisness without getting involved. Sure, the conflict is still there and one day no one will be able to avoid it, but also from her point of view it's unwinnable so why bother fighting to death over nothing while she can try and spend as much time as possible doing what she wants and can before the war reaches her and her tribe? Of course, she's not perfect, never was, but also I just understand that she doesn't live in a kind world and with magic and an immortal witch who wants to destroy the world and she knows it will happen one day or another, well. She spended years with that knowledge, so it had the time to do a thing on her mindset and actions and making her flaws even worse, but also it's understandable. Then again, it could look odd to us, but again not too long ago our ancestors were still doing stuff that today we would call the police if people were doing it today, like marrying kids under 15 and the likes, so, and in some countries it still happens again today. The world of RWBY is not a nice place to live, with Grimms feeding on negative feelings, a corrupt world where the riches can have slaves and if said slaves kills them in retaliation for the years of abuse under them (legitimate defence) they would still be arrested anyway, and of course racism and the likes, and all the war with Salem thing.
I think another interesting thing they could have done was show Raven as a person who struggles with responsibility. Especially when those responsibilities conflict. As a maiden, she needs to keep Salem away from the relics but at the same time she has her responsibilities as a sister, mother and lover. The logical thing to do, would be to stay away from them to protect them but she can't help but worry and that would tie in well with her semblance, which allows her to check in and help even from a distance. Upholding her responsibilities to some extent.
Five minutes in, I agree, RWBY needs to utilise its characters more in general. Raven is part of an underlying issue of half-fleshed out characters which can, and ultimately are, misconstrued. RWBY, and I think EruptionFang mentioned this previously, needs to either reduce the content of its volumes, or increase the episode count of them.
Now I'm a writer, amateur, for sure, only published one book, and I'm pretty sure it's terrible, but I understand at least that this isn't how you treat your characters.
Characters are people, and should be hated or loved as such, if they aren't shown fully, people will either draw incorrect conclusions or dismiss them entirely.
Constructive criticism? Cut down on characters or slow the pacing, stories aren't made for this type of fast-paced rapid fire introduction and exclusion type thing towards characters. It kills immersion, it kills consumer empathy.
Good video friend, I always enjoy them, good evening!
Fully agree
Amen to that, my friend and fellow amateur writer! And don’t get me started on how they “subvert expectations”!
I’ve never not liked Raven she’s definitely in my top five characters. And with everything going on in the current volume, if the raven showing up with tai after the message went out theory turns into reality. This could be a good way to reintroduce her if stuff goes south in the whale, causing her to break her own rule of one to once again help her daughter in a time of need. But idk how probable that is
The after credits scene with Yang and Raven felt like a set up that was going to be shown and resolved in the first two episodes of Volume 3. But with the death of Mounty Oum many idea were replaced or thrown out. Missed opportunity that's for sure.
And after watching your video I now see Raven not as a coward but a smart person. She learned the truth and realized that suicide isn't the better part of valor and decided to live her life how she wanted to.
Fully agree
Damn I'm like why did they throw his ideas? They knew he was a smart man who loved action & did a good storytelling with his characters. I know we all wish he was still here
We definitely need a Team STRQ flashback episode.
Know what to make it better just give us an entire prequel show that’ll definitely satisfy some of us
That’s hour long.
@@skyrogue1977 Maybe a special episode, like what Pokémon XY did.
Fully agree
The thing is, Rooster Teeth could've easily still made Raven a Maiden, as well as keep her as our first impression. Run away to protect Yang and Tai because of the Maiden Powers, as well as Raven taking the first step back into Yangs life. It would also explain Qrow and Tais photos and why she was smiling in it.
Also, as for Raven appearing at the end of Volume 2 being a dream, I think how Yang physically saw her was souly based off Yangs description herself, just with the details she already knew. Black hair, red eyes, her color scheme, sword, etc. Ravens model in the post credits scene is just a recolored Yang with a necklace and sword, then in Volume 4 when Raven was properly introduced, they added the key differences between her and Yang.
Hey man you were definitely right about Whitley. I bet you’re right about Raven too
The worst thing about how they treated Raven is the long term damage it has on Yang. Raven was the endpoint for Yang's character. It was set up to be her motivation. The reason why she is here in the story. By brushing it off as unimportant, not only do you end up destroying one of the reasons why Raven is even in the show, to begin with, but you also remove Yang's sole motivation for being a Huntress, if not outright making it questionable why Yang bothered to become one in the first place. My main issue with Yang in the current story is the fact she has no personal motivation outside of helping Ruby. She has no own agenda or goals because she's already got them done. When you have characters with their own personal goals and motivations, you generally have these things set up to be met by the end of the story. But with RWBY, you have Yang's entire character arc completed in V5 with her meeting with Raven and the confrontation in front of the Vault at Haven. Yang no longer has any real personal drive. That's sadly why her character now can't go 5 minutes without thinking about Blake because their relationship is all the writers have to go on at this point. The same can be said about Blake, Ren, and Nora. By having their own goals be achieved so early on in the story, you lose a reason you can always fall back on to answer why the characters are here. That's why most of their dialogue nowadays is nothing but relationship issues because they have nothing else to work with. With V8 looking to wrap up Weiss' character motivation and solving her issues with her family, the only characters who still have goals/motivations/plotlines are Jaune, Oscar, and Ruby. Jaune needs to fight Cinder and defeat her in order to avenge Pyrrah, Oscar has to deal with Ozpin and all the things Ozpin has done, and Ruby has to defeat Salem and prove to the Gods that humanity has been redeemed, probably with a protagonist speech or some bs. Meanwhile, we have a cast of 9 people. Only a third of the cast even has goals and plotlines at this point meanwhile for the rest the writers have to keep trying to justify the other characters' continual existence in the story. The story of RWBY started out with 4 characters with their own goals and motivations joining together to fight a threat to the world at large. Now, it's a story of four characters with only one of them still having their goals and motivations yet to be achieved while everyone else has gotten their goals and motivations taken care of. The story of RWBY is no longer about Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and Yang. It's a story focus on Ruby alone with the other characters being brought along out of requirement at this point.
Great sum up.
Though that just means they have to make a new one one. That makes sense with the experience of the characters
She doesn't even have helping Ruby as a motivation anymore, she straight up took a separate side away from her after claiming it was Ruby's leadership that got them into this mess, when one of the big reasons was Yang and Blake spilling government secrets.
Soooo
They just introduced Raven just because they can just have character development for Yang..
The show got to bloated and a majority of the characters just feel kind of there.
"Devils advocate the movie" Seriously though well done, surprised to have a fan video character breakdown manage to make me care for a character that's long since been dead to me and we haven't seen in 3 years. Corners were cut in volumes 4 and 5 and Raven was almost the sole casualty for almost all of them, which was a tragedy given how much she'd been built up, hinted at and alluded to so heavily throughout the entire series all the way up to her "official" reveal. Who knows? Maybe we'll see her make a grand return sometime in volume 8 to help turn the tides, and where volume 4 and 5 left her character torn asunder to be yet another stepping stone for team RWBY volume 8 will give her character a chance to fly once again.
R.I.P ADAM CHARACTER
Next pit
JAMES IRONWOOD
Adam Taurus?
Dude. R.I.P all of the antagonists. Its so annoying that Monty, a man who was better with animations then story telling could tell a better story than the current writers
@@baronmega19BBY Exactly as much as I didn’t like Adam, I don’t think it makes sense for the current writers to have killed him but kept someone like llia even tho Adam could have gotten redemption like she did because Adam wasn’t evil, he was just confused
I honestly thought Raven would’ve been better as a mysterious yet understandable and unique character
okay i think i can phrase this better fix Raven
With this
" why did you leave me" yang asked bluntly holding back her emotions
raven: because i didn't trust myself and raising you in a place like the bandits is no place for a child to live, i speak from experience.
yang: you could have stayed with us especially after sum-
raven:yang i honestly, don't trust myself with a child's happiness.
yang :then why did you leave me with dad? 'could have abandoned me anywhere gave me to some orphanage or something.
raven: what you don't like tai(she asked rhetorically )
yang: no i. love him hes just wonderful and-
raven: and that's it
yang:what?
raven: (eye to eye )yang the reason i left you with him, is because i knew from years of working with him that he would take care of you and love you for all that you are. i don't trust myself.... i can't...
but i'd rather love you from a distance then break you up close.
Even can do Salem and Raven
“I don't trust immortal, not even conceptually. Hell I’m an atheist for earth's sake
“wait why the fu-
Because for whatever fountain of knowledge they have, they inherently have lack one thing
empathy
Because they have separated themselves from what makes us all human
All people,
Death itself
Yang if you die you'll just be another pawn sacrifice to their Queen
But to your family they will hurt even *more* but not Oz because he's done this dance a *thousand times already*.
she strikes, he parries, he counters, she hides *repeat*
over and over again like *clockwork*.
It's pointless, it's *hopeless* honestly.
Yang, we are stuck between a rock and a hard place And even if we win that only means she'll go back into hiding and do it all over again.
and all that sacrifice would be for nothing. My death would be meaningless, *Summers* death would be meaningless, the hundreds of deads before us would be meaningless.
I don't want to waste my life on some stupid chess game between two immortal exlovers qoral
And the only way to win a game like that is
*Not to play.*
Yang: you can't just stay here
And wallow in nihilism-
Raven: How.. can.. you.. *KILL A GOD* what advantage did ozpin truly give you. cuz he sure as f*** didn't give me anything
not ironwood not, tai not, not Qrow or even summer .
(Silence in the air)
(Deep breath)
You may think I'm a coward and that's fair
But at the very least I live my life how I wanted, not as a *pawn* but a *person*. And I suggest you do the same as well.
(Walking away, portal opan, her head tilted back
And yang
Make sure Ruby doesn't end up like her mother. I always regretted it, not being able to help her.
only showing up on the body was still warm.
(treary whisperery choke of a sob, her gaze dead a head )
or what's was left of her(enters portal)
@@anarchomando7707 That was so beautifully written
I've always found myself drawn to extremely complex characters, both good and evil, for as long as I can remember. I don't know if I actively seek out drawn blanks or missing plotlines or whatever, or if I sense it by accident, but I inevitably find myself always asking questions and wanting to find out more and dig deep. When it comes to RWBY, the two characters I've done almost endless searching and theorizing on is Raven and Mercury. For now, the focus will be on the former.
Some people had told me in the past that I was reading too deeply into Raven whenever I mentioned watching clips of her and listening to her lines over and over again to pick up any trace of someone hidden behind the cold mask we were introduced to. And for a while, I almost believed them. But me being me, I couldn't let it go and simply accept things at face value, so I kept digging and thinking. As a writer myself (not professional), I'll openly admit that we so screw up our own stories sometimes, probably more often than anyone would like to admit. However, when it comes to Raven or other complex characters that become vastly hated, I try very hard to not immediately call out Miles and Kerry for bad writing because I feel like there's more to come that will eventually be enlightened upon. I think that's actually what draws me to villains and antagonists so much, I'm always wondering what led them to becoming the people they are now.
Despite what the majority of the fandom may agree on, and during my moments of peer pressed induced doubt, I've never truly viewed Raven as a coward or a bad person in general. Yes, she's done many questionable things in the show, but nothing that's come off as truly malicious to me. The way I look at her - my own personal theory - is that at the very heart of it all, Raven is actually doing everything she's doing BECAUSE she's thinking like a mother. Like you mentioned, Raven is terrified of Salem because she knows what Salem is capable of, or at least it's been implied so. Now, I had to use a little imagination for this next part (writer, remember? lol), but this is my personal belief of what happened in the past:
My theory is that Salem actually visited the STRQ household either sometime before or after Yang was born, likely with the aid of a Seer. Assuming Raven didn't obtain the Spring Maiden powers until many years later, she and Qrow would still at the time be Oz's best tools since they could turn into birds and spy on Salem (hence their allusions to Huginn and Muninn, the ravens of Odin), so how do you take them out? As we've recently learned in Volume 8, Salem likes to destroy her enemies from the inside, so I believe she did this with Raven by showing up one night and threatening Yang's life if she stayed. Even if not a traditional mother and there being a possibility of Salem bluffing, Raven is still not willing to gamble with her daughter's life and reluctantly leaves her and the rest of her team behind. Of course, we learn from Yang that she has seen her mother's bird form before, and can infer that Raven still made attempts to be in her daughter's life albeit from the shadows. And to rub salt into her already gapping wounds, she had to watch her daughter call another woman "mama", and her husband fall in love and have a child with said other woman.
My belief is that in order to protect herself since she was now completely alone, Raven created a facade of being the cold, prideful and antagonistic woman we met in Volumes 4 and 5. A mask she perfected over the years during her time leading the tribe, and eventually coming across the Spring Maiden. I do have a theory on that subject, which I'll briefly explain before returning to my point.
Remember when Jinn was first introduced, she mentioned that she could still answer two questions? Why two instead of three? Or none at all? My initial theory was that Raven snuck into the Spring vault to find answer for herself, but after rewatching the later episode of Volume 5, I realized that Raven was seeing that place for the first time and discarded the idea. Then I remembered her commenting to Yang about her killing the previous Maiden as an act of mercy, and thought to myself: what if it was? What if the previous Maiden was tired of being kept in the dark and stole the key to the vault, snuck inside and used the Relic, and found out exactly what they were dealing with. Raven also mentioned "she was scared when we found her", and finding out that you're involved in a war with an immortal Grimm goddess is indeed a petrifying thing. Raven takes the girl in and eventually the previous Maiden discloses her findings to Raven upon learning of her past involvement with Ozpin. Then, what if after some time, she ASKS Raven to kill her? She doesn't want to spend the rest of her life looking over her shoulder because of these powers, and she certainly doesn't want to face Salem. And so Raven places another target on her back by honoring the girl's wish and ending her suffering, and becoming the new Spring Maiden as a result.
Going back to what I was saying about Raven's facade: it was easy to pretend around the bandits, but that mask constantly slipped and slipped whenever Yang came around. I do agree with your theory that Raven may have been trying to be hospitable and open to Yang in her own way, but I also believe that Raven may have been acting that way on purpose in order to keep distant from Yang, and therefore keep her safe. One of those things where she'd rather Yang be alive to hate her instead of dying and loving her.
But here's another issue: the danger of a lie is that when told enough times, it starts to be seen as truth. And it's likely that Raven fell victim to her own mask, her own lies, and therefore didn't even understand herself anymore. Ultimately, her plan to protect Yang fails when she (Yang) makes it clear she has no plans of backing down from Salem, and so that facade breaks and we see the grieving mother at the very center of it all. Someone who is perceived as prideful and cold, but in reality loves so hard that she's willing to put herself through two decades worth of emotional pain in order to protect her family - even if they hate her for her methods.
I'm not 100% certain if we'll ever see Raven in the second half of Volume 8, but if we do, I really hope for some insight into her past, whether it be through flashback sequences or a talk she has with Yang or Tai, or both. I'm a little conflicted as to if she could still be lurking in Patch, or if she flew somewhere else after teleporting to Tai to escape Haven. Lately I'm assuming the latter since she now has no one at all, but I'm not completely dismissing the former yet. Anyways, I loved this video so much :) keep up the good work, Eruption, and have a happy new year!
Edit: I forgot to mention this, but I think part of Yang's sudden change in attitude towards Raven is a result of Tai and Qrow's tones whenever they gave her information about her mother. Tai and Qrow knew Raven very well and her sudden disappearance hurt and angered them both, and like you mentioned: Yang initially only felt sadness and curiosity about Raven because she didn't know anything about her. A person's tone of voice when talking about someone else can really effect how another person views them, and I think that's what's going on with Yang: she's acting on Tai and Qrow's anger and hostility, not her own.
Additionally, remember in Known By Its Song when Yang and Weiss were talking to Raven, and Yang asked why they should believe her? Raven's reply was: "Now you're catching on. So far you've done nothing but accept what other people tell you, but you need to question everything."
We know that she was talking about Yang blindly believing Ozpin, but what if there was a double meaning to that? What if she was trying to say, "Don't judge me based on what others have told you, ask questions and judge me for yourself."?
Have you ever heard the saying 20 words or less because if all this is your justification for Raven not being a shitty character than you are overcompicating
@@eduardopantoja9115 I agree... I had a stroke reading half of it.
It was an eyeful, but it's quite an insight.
“Team RWBY doesn’t rise up to new heights they tear others down” that is an excellent summary of one of the biggest problems of the show.
The best comparison is RWBY vs the ASOPs next to the Genin vs the Sound four in Naruto.
Where the characters have to pull out all the stocks and push themselves to breaking to defeat an more experienced and powerful foe. Earning their victories with cost. While RWBY brushes the ASOPs as side with no effort or consequences.
Damn right!
Misunderstood by the audience or by the writers?
Because, the latter seems to happen more nowadays, yikers.
I also feel that viewers that are blind to the nuances that intentionally/nonintentional portrayed in this show divide the RWBY community.
Could be both (and tbh, probably is both)
It's both.
@@delusionaldreamer8332 alot of people, myself included usually only point out the negative effects of this while also mistaking or neglecting where the show does it right, the writers are not great but they aren't the spawn of Satan either. Its eye opening and refreshing to see videos like this that point that fact out.
@@keyki9832 Yep.
You actually blew my mind. Somehow I never realized the bird was supposed to be Raven. I always wanted a STRQ spinoff that showed how Summer dies and Raven becomes angry and jaded because she blames Ospin for Summer's death. Then she could kill the last maiden out of mercy because she was already dying and to keep the bad guys from getting the maiden powers. Then maybe she's somewhat attracted to Tai because of his positive outlook on life, but ultimately she can't get over her grief and leaves because she's afraid that if she becomes too attached to people they will die too. I also always thought that the moon was shattered because of Summer and Salem because of the songs Red Like Roses Part 2 and Sacrifice. "For eternity I'm shattered. But Baby please don't do what I did, I don't want you to waste your life in vain." "The moon will sadly watch the roses die in vain." I actually really liked Volume 4. They just spent too much time having Team RNJR travel.
Finally, someone said it!
I love Raven. I really do. She's exactly the type of character I get drawn to, but she's treated like the opposite of a Mary Sue. Instead of the plot bending to show nothing but unconditional love and support around an empty character, we see the plot bending to hate a character that has more complications than there are specks of sand in a sand dune. Raven is, quite frankly, the most human character in the series and she personifies one of the most overlooked issues in writing, that almost no character is as complicated as a real person. I have seen videos that do nothing but tear a character down and pointing out every so-called flaw without even considering that they are judging based on something that just isn't going to happen. Raven is one of the most hated characters that I have seen, but I disagree. I like Raven! I like her complexity, her mystery, I like her as a character, and as a person because she's proof that walking such a thin line is possible. Raven has a foot in both worlds. And I don't mean good and evil, but past and present.
#ILoveRaven
All the pieces were in place, and they took her in a completely different direction. It’s one of the most frustrating aspects of this show. So much potential, and nothing ever comes of it.
So honest question who else at one point was starting to tear up when the Violet Evergarden music started to play? Cause I'm man enough to admit I was and honestly I dearly wish that Raven had an auto memory doll, someone like violet who can listen to her story and transform it into something beautiful that expressed her actual feelings.....holy shit.
EruptionFang your basically an Auto memory doll. Oh sure this isn't the exact same thing but you were able to watch Raven's story, understand her feelings and then using this video express them into something beautiful that *others* could actually understand.
Wow this might actually be one of my favorite RWBY video's of all time.
Now I know why...
Haven’t watched it yet
QUALITY OST
I'll be honest.
Is it bad if I hope they never bring her up again, just in case they somehow screw up even more?
Same, but a part of me also doesn't want her last appearance to be in volume fucking 5 lol
I agree with this lmao
@@mochafrappawhat
It's a darn catch 22, isn't it?
If they bring her back, they'll most likely ruin what little we got, and if they don't she's forever stuck in that mess of a volume.
I think the writers need to pull their heads into the light and stop disrespecting Raven. If they can do that, then by all means, bring her back.
@@kodymcbride6901 Precisely. If her story ends that and there, that means her character arc is stuck at stalking her ex-husband. Lol, their has to be more. But on the other hand, how does she fit in with the current story? Seriously, the writing has dug her character in a hole.
She's definitely gonna come in at the last minute to sacrifice herself in order to save her daughter Yang. Seems like one of the obvious plot points for a character like her.
I feel like cinder is goona try to kill yang and ravens gonna save her and cinder might steal her maiden powers
@@SleeperFantasy Betting Yang will get Mommy's powers.
No, I don't think so. That would be a waste and just not in her character.
I honestly see raven saving oscar yang ren and Jaune on the whale and take them to either qrow or ruby
@@malcolmwhitehead1101 right cause she prob will save her if shes finna die
So if Raven had children, would she have them like a human, or would she lay eggs like a bird?
XD
I don't want to think about it but it would make sense in why she hates her bird transformation
*@rpsyco* Yes.
Yang has a navel which means birth the mammalian way. Avians have yolk sac scars which heal almost completely so no Egg Yang. Though I would assume being pregnant prevents Raven from turning into a raven but that will remain an open-ended question.
In the scene with the spring maiden vault yang is projecting onto her mother raven, these are all the things that she blames Blake for and wants to say to her but instead of doing do she paints her mother as Blake and thusly lashes out at her in the wrong.
Is raven a coward? No, she has every right to be afraid and she is doing Everything that she possibly can to make sure that salem doesn't win.
In ravens life everyone around her has used her by manipulation and she desperately does not want that pattern to continue.
What if an enemy or salem used yang as a means to control raven?
That is probably a thought that has crossed her mind, what if the bad guy uses my loved ones in order to use my capabilities for something evil?
The only way to avoid that scenario would be to leave , it would mean being forced to leave loved ones behind and be utterly alone, I think that's what raven did.
She left not because she wanted to, but because she had to.
There are thousands of theives and being a leader to those thrives would be great cover but it wouldn't be a life that she would want for her loved ones heck she might have actually tried to convince them to go with her but was turned away.
In a way raven was glad to see that her loved ones were safe and sound even though it meant painting her as horrible person, sometimes in order to do the right thing you have to be recognized as a villian.
I enjoyed the video.
Honestly I find Raven one of the most justifiable characters from RWBY.
Her being a maiden is actually surprisingly good justification for a lot of her actions.
1. Abandoning Yang, Tai, Qrow, etc. Not safe to be a maiden as is even worse for those around her. And if she died the beloved daughter may become the maiden.
2. Saying she wants to kill Qrow. What better way to get the villains to believe you want to join them than to target someone you "abandoned."
3. Not wanting to be a part of Ozpin's cause. By becoming a maiden she becomes more powerful but now has a huge target on her back versus an unstoppable force. Before she could abandon the cause if she wanted but by being a maiden she is always a major target. Let's face it if she had stayed eventually she would watch those close to her sacrifice themselves for her and the cause.
So overall becoming a maiden easily justifies leaving because it puts her and those around her in too much danger.
Let not forget that she could have told Qrow what she was planning but she didn't because she didn't care if Qrow or Yang live or die it was all about her.
Fully agree
She is probably one of my favorite characters, simply because of all of her potential. I know that she will 99.9% never be written to actually reach that potential, but one can hope...plus, her entire aesthetic, power, weapon, etc. just exudes badassery.
I'm really not sure why but I feel like eruptionfang doesn't like rwby anymore XD
I suppose, especially with cinders horrible writing and her quest for power. When I first watch rwby in 2018 I thought after volume 3 they would build on cinders character. But no, we get it in volume 8
We all hate it but we've invested too much time to drop it
After the shit rooster teeth has done in the last few years butchering montys story, who in their right mind would?
We're all in to deep to just leave
One thing I don't get about rwby is ruby's mum. Her name is summer...yet the team don't start to think thing like why her name is what it is
Considering how Yang barely seems to care for her sister in favor of Blake nowadays I can't even say her not caring about running into Raven after all this time searching is out of character for her. That's how miserable her character is.
Volume 8 here she save ruby from falling to the void at at the cost of falling in herself.
It's sad. What have you done, RT?
My mind is blown by your incredible analysis of Raven. Just shows just how much time and effort you've put into this video to show your viewers this amazingly detailed explanation.
I think rwby’s writers have dropped the ball like 50 times at this point
I like the fact that a video talking about raven is giving her more screen time than the show itself
Yang is unrecognizable
Wow I forgot she used to be kind of cool
Honestly, at this point... I feel sorry for RWBY, I really do. It's so hard to straighten a ship when the captain is dead.
Painfully accurate
Monty Oum, even tough he had the original idea, never was the sole creator. Not even the only writer for the show. i don't get why people can't understand that 😐
Of course he had a ton to bring to the show. And his unfortunate fate shook the whole team and the show deeply, as it should. But you can't just say that without him the ship has lost the captain, it's just on a different course.
Gone too soon though, rest in peace💔
@@Circusmaid They changed a lot immediately after he died, like retconning the V2 ending with Raven, and completely changing Winter's design (who was originally based off of Monty's wife)
This is one of the best videos you’ve made, good work man!
Basically any character who is an antagonist or isn't automatically on the side of the main characters, who's character intro painted them as a nuanced character or the very least having a complicated past, is retconed into being an unforgivable asshole who had no justifiable or understandable reason as to why they did what they did.
Adam and Ironwood looking at raven like: first time.
Honestly, I don’t mind the paths these characters went down, it’s merely the fact how they’re painted as unforgivable monsters by both the writers and the viewers that I despise. Moreso Ironwood and Raven tho, I don’t mind Adam becoming the arsehole he was, just take out his obsession with Blake and then we’re golden.
Ironwood is still a complex man thats more of an anti villain than a straight up villain, (same with Raven), that doesnt undo the fact that he was a potential "dictator in the making" even back in his debut volume, just like Raven´s main flaw is Pride, Ironwood main flaw from the start has been Control and Paranoia. I also dont care how the show tries to paint him or other characters (I didnt even noticed at first), anyone with common sense will make their own impressions anyway.
@@ayar2 to be honest I didn’t really like either character that much at first but that was when I just started getting into the show and just accepted everything it did, when I actually started looking deeper was around a Volume 6. Looking back I can understand why people thought Iromwood was a paranoid control freak but I merely see him as someone to take action as soon as a threat is identified, when the Ozluminati heard about a group in Mt. Glenn he wanted to flush them out before they become too much of a threat which is understandable and when he brought along his army, even though I won’t deny it bit him HARD in the arse but to be fair the hacking wasn’t something he could’ve predicted, which I can appreciate to be a shield for the people and a sword against his enemies. Ironwoods main downside was that he was too different from the Ozluminati, too militaristic, I feel like they never really gave him a chance beyond his place in the group and when they actually called upon his army was when shit hit the fan, it didn’t sit right with me.
@@jjjwhovian his intentions had always been good, but his head on approach to every problem made him easier to spot from a mile away, and also easy to deceive, not to mention his trust issues, while we eventually learned that it isnt wise to fully trust Ozpin, he didnt even trusted his own council, only the ace ops, penny and winter, basically the only ones that are unconditionally loyal to him, which to a certain extent is clever, but also ensures that no one will ever challenge him on decision making, depriving him from an outside look that could surely spot any flaws or mistakes in his plans.
@@jjjwhovian I used to just wonder what pushed Ironwood down this path. Then I heard the song 'Hero' and found out about his Semblance. Now I just want someone to save him from that hell already. When you put his song and Semblance together, out paints quite a frightening picture.
In case you didn't know, his Semblance is 'Mettle'. Essentially, it hardens his resolve to a certain end. It's passive though, so he's can't really control it.
I enjoyed Raven when she was on screen. She was a character presented that was strong, but not some bag of sunshine. She wasn't your 'friend', but she didn't seek out to hurt you either. She still had a very loose connection to her family. I always imagined that her role as a Leader to her group and her duty bound to it kept her desiring to stay with said group. She could have easily brought Yang into that life, but didn't. She gave Yang to a family who could love and protect her. While even appearing that one time when Yang was in dire need. She is complicated because you don't always agree with what she is doing. Raven can incite negative emotions in people who know her because of how stubborn she is. I was upset learning about some of the things she did and why, but at the same time I understood. She's not dangerous because of maliciousness. Just dangerous because her methods aren't always following some sort of good moral compass. I'm sure if Yang was going to die again, and Raven knew this, then she might come to her aid. BUT only if Raven didn't believe that other forces could help Yang. Complicated, Powerful, Dangerous, and at the same time.. Confusing. I'm sure she'll play a bigger role later on if she's not already forgotten. Like Launch from Dragon Ball.
You'd think that, given what Yang knows about Salem now vs in Volume 5, that Yang might be more sympathetic to Raven's aversion to fighting her. Y'know, since Ozpin roped Raven into this fight while having no actual plan to defeat her.
With recent reveals i believe she like hazel killed salem several times and is actually suffering from this.
I'm trying to revive Raven in my fanfic. I had to go as far as to create her backstory and tried to make her a much more human and understandable character.
Then you're already putting in a better effort then RT.
@@kodymcbride6901 if you want, I can send you a link because I could use some feedback.
@@HoV326
Do it my dude, it sounds interesting.
@@kodymcbride6901 Here you go: m.fanfiction.net/s/13480162/1/
If you want to skip to the chapters that have Raven in it, she's in chapter 9, the first section of 11, the set up for Act 4, and chapters 13, 14, and 15* (I put an asterisk on 15 because it hasn't been posted yet, but it will be later today). Also there might be some strong language and graphic violence in parts. Also it's a fanfic based off Team SLVR, but Raven is a key figure in this volume. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. And if you have any feedback, that is always welcomed because I know my story likely has some rough patches in it. And lastly, thank you for taking an interest in my story.
@@HoV326 can you do the same for Adam too ?
Raven is the best character because she called Ruby a lost cause in v5. Love her or hate her, she's absolutely right.
I feel like the best show to compare RWBY to is Steven Universe.
The issue with Steven Universe is, like RWBY, force literally everything that happens in the entire lore of the show to be about Steven Universe. Anything that makes a character unique or complex in that show is compromised because they have to give in to Steven's character.
I feel like ruining Raven's character was the start of Yang's character being ruined.
We're slowly merging with an alternate timeline when rwby chibi was created first and they tried making a story out of those characters
Thanks for this. It helps me figure out the best ways to bring Raven up from what she was reduced to in my fanfiction. You're very insightful ^_^
Honestly that might be the only way you could salvage Raven as a character, and I’ve only seen fewer fanfics improve on her “motherhood” story
I loved this video. Definitely a great watch and perfect timing since RWBY Vol. 8 is taking a break until Feb.
I would love more videos discussing the misconceptions/misunderstanding of our main cast of characters 👍
Raven is my favorite Rooster Teeth character and this video is more important than you think.
It’s unbelievable someone feels the same way that I could cry. This fan base gives me shit for loving Raven as much as I do and this helped me in you nor anyone else will understand.
Thank you!! She is literally my favorite character. She has so much depth that gets overlooked.
"She said she saved you once, and you shouldn't expect that kindness again."
Am I the only one who heard Qrow say that, and immediately believed Raven was saying
"Don't get complacent thinking I can save you every time. I might not be there one day."
with that line? Like, she could and would save Yang again if she had the option, but doesn't want Yang to rely on her too heavily, and instead for her to stand as her own fighter?
I honestly don't know what Miles and Kerry were thinking with that line. I don't know if they wanted to write Raven to be an uncaring bitch, or something closer to what you said. But a part of me likes to think Raven has been extra avoidant since she became the spring maiden so she talks like that to keep people off her trail and to encourage people to not talk to her. 💅
The biggest defense I have to this comes from a more personal level. As a writer myself I have story I have been developing for over 10 years, and due to my busy schedule with work I have never found the time to actually write down or give any concept art for the story I am telling. All I have is the brief times, while with my closest friends, telling them my ideal concept. Giving them the plot in a very condensed version. It is because of this I have always suffered with my greatest fear, passing away before I can make this story a reality, sure I have informed several people of the story but I have never given anyone the broken down intonement details of each character and how they operate in the world I have created. If I had an unfortunate accident and Travis Mark or Jack were to try to tell the story I have written, they would not be able to delve into the complexity of each character. Characters like Candra and Alex may be perceived as villains even though they are more anti heroes that have development over the series. So yeah although they have taken Raven in a wrong direction, I understand how that could be possible as the original mind behind the character passed away before his story could be heard.
I just realized both Adam and Raven were ruined with a "I'm not here for you" line.
Coincidence, I think not...unironicall. Both are edgy characters linked to protagonists who have unsolved business with them. The writers used that line twice because their reaction when they see a character like that is to knock down their importance. Similar to how every time a character fights someone from Atlas, they talk about them thinking they are too important and complains about them being rich. Since their writing skill is so limited, they default to their prejudices when dealing with a character that isn't a protagonist.
EruptionFang but his editing doubled in quality.
Especially with the music that was playin in the background to make this video more interesting
It's about time.
I think Raven is one of my favorite characters now
Yang calls Raven a coward for running away from her problems.....but where was this energy with Blake? Like, yeah Yang was upset with Blake, but where was the lecture to Blake? Why wasn't Blake called out?
Oh yeah, can't upset the Bumblebee ship. So Blake was automatically forgiven.
Yeah. Worst part: In Volume 1, Yang literally *purred* at the sight of shirtless boys. Seriously, RT misinterpreted the fandom's love for the Bumblebee ship and they just shoehorned it in, completely forgetting the traits that contradicted this, i.e. the girls' heteroromantic alignment.
The double standards is sickening.
Everything before the creator die was so good! It had feelings and such understanding of the story. Now it just feel dry.
I like how he used the future diary theme throughout the video👍
I think the reason she became so untrusting of everyone should lie with whatever happened to Summer. Same way we theorize Qrow blames himself for Summer.
For those who keep attacking Raven for leaving Yang, i wish to point out we don't know her side Qrow and Tai either don't know or won't tell us and Yang shut Raven off so why don't you clam down and wait to hear her side of the story before passing judgement.
I don't think we will ever get that side.
Could you make a video like this about Sun or Mercury? I would LOVE to see how you analyse them
Really love your in-depth analysis on RWBY characters, great video!
Also, real quick I think you're mistaken with the second music you credited. The song is Watashi No Uso from Your Lie in April. (at 1:23)
Apparently RT loves doing a pattern as rwby is always the right way; Adam, James, Raven, ozpin
And Leo.
the editing and production quality on this video is actually very good.
It's funny how a character like Raven has a power that revolves around her caring about other people.
I'm really glad you made this video. I always saw Raven as a much more complex character then people think. It really makes me feel better that there are others that can see past what we see and that there are more to a person than we think
I think this video’s length is triple the amount of time the writers, or certain viewers, ever thought about Raven’s character
Fully agree
I have followed your channel for years ER, and this is probably the best video of yours I've seen. This is some really eye-opening stuff and really informs how I see and write Raven from now on. The awesome part about your video, and by extension the fandom, is there's always someone who appreciates a character and sees potential where others wouldn't -- in that sense, in spite of the show's faults, the conversations around it and its characters continue to be some of the most compelling stuff an aspiring storyteller can chew into.
Raven is the most interesting character in RWBY. She runs deeper than her words and apparent attitude. She's a gift that gives when the time is right. As you said, her semblance tells us everything we need to know. Her manifestation for bonding is so strong that it gives her instant access to anyone she cares about. She has the potential to care so deeply that it becomes her greatest vulnerability. Realizing that, she tries to project out an aloof, prideful, selfish image of herself to protect others and herself. Her fate is determined by whether her enemies or those she cares about realize this.
I feel like if they wanted to take the angry daughter approach still they could. You can keep the sad and curious girl from volume 2 and when she meets Raven she can be angry but only because she doesn't know how to feel she's happy she's seeing her mom and she found her but she's sad at the same time and upset it's not under the circumstances she wanted so her sadness was missunderstood inside her and all that come out was angrynsss plus carried out anger from the fall of beacon and Adam . And they could keep everything the same except the final confrontation at heaven. She could talk about how Tai depicted Raven then acknowledge that she was angry earlier and apologize then say something like " you said you'd answer any question, so just answer why," while looking away showing that as much as Yang wants to know she scared because what if the reason is her then Raven says "I couldn't be that mother that you needed" or something relatively close and as while she's saying it the camera is on Yang like I'm the original she turned back and there's a feather they because she left and it could have a better impact we get that caring Raven looking out for her daughter with a little self doubt and with her not being able to get into her emotions she leaves before Yang could ask another question now giving us all the sense of why. Then with Team RWBY learning the truth about Salem Yang could ask Raven about her encounter with Salem so they can have a better understanding and maybe formulate a plan with Ravsn still telling them that it's a bad idea to pursue a war they can't win for their safety which may come off as doubtful but again further shows her caring in her own way about her daughter
Man, thank you a lot for making this great video. Very detailed. Raven is still one of my top 3 characters. She deserves more love
Also Post-Yang belongs to the trash, just saying, don't mind me
Eh, considering Yang always seemed like Cardin but with tits, Yang always belonged in the trash imo.
Exactly. It's so sad when creators don't understand their own character.
Congrats, you are the *ONLY* logical person in all of this.
And that’s Terrible
The worst part is she is almost as hostile, towards Raven as she was towards Ruby in Volume 8, with no reason. It would make more sense that in the moment where she greeted Yang in Volume two instead of it being Yang's dream it would be Raven's, even though it looks like it's from Yang's perspective at that moment in time she was unaware of what Raven looked like therefore it would make sense from Raven's perspective and that's why when Yang see's her eyes turn red conveying she is angry, but she also asks who she is before her eyes turn red. This would convey that even though she wanted to waltz into her daughter's life and be a caring mother, she feared how she'd be precieved.
"No Monty, No RWBY"
Painfully accurate
I actually really liked this video. Raven is one of my favorite characters in the show (after Neo) due to her mystery. I sincerely hope that she’s brought back in a way that truly works for both portrayals that have been made.
Its okay Raven your still the best character in my eyes T.T
Doesn't help that Raven's got Adam's color pallet and similar getups early on, but most notably they ditched her at the end of 5. No return or mention of her. Though some may point Yang becoming more like her Mother in the most recent season.
I wish the two had a connection. Like master and student type connection