@@SamuelLanghorn0.00001% ? This is laughable... I am sure you guys play lotto ! My percentage is more realistic, that's why i don't play lotto :D (0.0000000715% is your chance of winning at lotto with 6 number from 49)
All I can offer as a US Marine. Part of it is really good training and the other part is becoming a team, a real team, a family-like team, a literal "I will die for you" team/family. I did get any direct fire incidents. But during the first of several bombing attacks we sustained I noticed how quickly and naturally I jumped on top of a "junior" Marine. I was his leader. So he was mine to protect. That's how I was trained and that's how I felt. It was my duty to die protecting him. However, in a wall siege offensive situation.... you go up that wall because someone has to go up that wall. And to refuse to go is to say your life is more valuable than the man next to you. I think a man without children would often volunteer probably. It's a wild and hard to swallow concept but yes there are times when we will lay down our lives for each other. Depends on what you are fighting for. In the Marines, we really fought for each other. Leave no man behind type stuff. Funny enough and not quite the same but my buddy was actually the first vehicle(an armored tractor) to breach Fallujah during the Second Battle of Falujah in 2004. He got lit up by multiple rockets but wasn't injured. His tractor was demolished though. So he had to run to another truck under fire. In his case, he was first because he was lowest ranking member trained to operate an armored tractor. (They had made a barrier around the city using cars, so a tractor was needed to push the cars out the way so other vehicles could get thru). My buddy wasn't exactly excited to be first into Fallujah but he wasn't gonna whimp out and let someone else take a bullet that was meant for him. Survivor's guilt is a very real thing. My buddy survived. We lost two guys. I wasn't close with them tho. It's crazy what we will do for one another and yet crazy what we can do to one another. Great good and evil. I struggled since war but luckily found Jesus. Worth the fight.
The fact that Trebellius's family line went on to become tribunes, legats and consuls all because he was first on the wall just shows how it was undeniably worth the risk. Edit: I don't care if you personally wouldn't want to risk your life but objectively this was the fastest way to go from the lower classes to the highest positions in Rome, elevate the social status of your family for generations to come and having your name be immortalized in history.
@@TheSuperhoden while there was meritocracy in the Roman legions, being put into the higher positions would have required an education beyond what the typical Roman would have been given. Trebellius' deeds enabled him to elevate his family line, which put them in better positions to make use of their talents. It likely also served to inspire his descendent to strive for greater deeds
@@TheSuperhodenNewsflash! Privilege has existed as long as mankind has, Nepotism arrived a few generations later. No doubt they had relevant skills, but these would have been totally overlooked without some sort of existing social status, such as being first in the comments section 😉🤷♂️😁
I can see how this was tempting........ It`s like if today, you and your family became all trust-fund kids with a social status of the Kenedys.........I would not do is for me, but if I had a wife and some children back at home that were barely getting by, and this was my best chanche, I would consider it.....
interservices rivalries, a tall as old as time. I guarentee, there weren't three armed men on land and sea by the time the Army vs Marines rivalry was born.
"My great grandfather was first on the wall at New Carthage and for that reason, your bill sucks ass and will not be brought before the Senate" -Consul Marcus Trebellius Maximus Rome was so awesome
They have not yet thought about catapulting men OVER the wall with parachutes. How about paratroopers who landed first during Battle of Greece and Operation Market Garden - do they get rewards ?
Being the first soldier to scale the wall and LIVE is actually insane. Literally all eyes are on you. Archers, slingers, crossbowmen, spearmen ECT are all out to get YOU.
I appreciate the variety of styles of soldiers used in the art. It emphasizes how this was something that happened for a very long time including many types of soldiers from many states and empires
Also that the Roman army changed over time. Our idea of the "Roman army" is fixed in the 1st Century BC for the most part, due to Caesar, Antony, Octavian etc. But the army of Late Antiquity was very different. Centuries of evolution fighting many different opponents and the use of cavalry integrated into the army or as auxiliaries with spurs meant that the army of 300 AD would smash the army of 50 BC without much effort, even if Caesar was leading it.
similar in ancient chinese warfare. first on the wall, capturing the flag, in a unit dedicated to break into enemy formation, killing the enemy general, are the 4 hardest and possibly the best achievement a soldier can fathom, the reward of achieving these are so great that can change a soldier's social class entirely. They are often rewarded with cash/gold, good land for farming, and higher military rank.
they could be declared liars and be ignored or worse how can they prove anything in a chaos which is a warfare my idea is they was doing this because they were manipulated and brainwashed sorta "its a big honour your mother will pride of you" like it is in modern times
The penalty for lying is extremely high (death or worse) and there are tons of military witnesses around (who take honour extremely seriously). These are trained military men, not incompetent randos, nobody is going to throw away their reputation just to give you a social leg up.
@@gooel There are even cases in Chinese history where multiple soldiers took part in killing a general and were all rewarded equally. Being generous to those who did a heroic deed encourages others to act more bravely and fight more fiercely in the hopes of also getting rewarded.
@@Ankhar2332 Would that happen in the past? Sure, there must be cases like that. However, pretty sure any army which doesn't value meritocracy properly wouldn't fare too well in the history book and probably would have been forgotten by now. There are reasons why Rome became so dominant in that era, and their societal culture is one of the root causes.
@@Ankhar2332People actually had honor back then if you studied history. Now people don't even have pride or honor, they just show up in pajamas at their local Walmart.
Love the arbiters standing in between two units of clearly skilled units champing at the bit. Took the clearly safest way out, "Surely you BOTH were first, that sounds good to us."
My father would break down in tears as he talked about his fellow Marines on Iwo Jima who were ordered over the birm into withering Japanese machine gun fire and certain death but they went anyway. They knew they were going to die as soldiers did on the beaches of Normandy, the trenches of Verdun, the fields of Gettysburg and so many other battlefields throughout history.
@jackking2588 the japs were pricks during that time no way of sugar coating it and dont mean to be racist. I have compassion for any soldier serving and giving his life to it. But the Absurdity of War is crazy. Can't stop won't stop
These kinds of motivations definitely made a lot more sense in the era of birthrights. Your lineage determined your fate but anything that allowed you to circumvent those circumstances was literally priceless. Makes a lot of sense that men would chance their lives at something they could literally never obtain otherwise.
It's crazy but incredibly admirable and I would say overall a positive thing right? Peak meritocracy for the lower ranks of society. The kind of man this thinking forges is so fascinating to me.
@@DaJimReapersame man. I am pondering this for at leas a decade now and it seems, even though this makes for much worse living conditions for "the masses" in the short term, it makes for much quicker global advancement and more wealth for humanity in the long term.
@DaJimReaper honestly, all I see in this is another way Leviathan devised to incentivize people to sacrifice their interests for the interest of the state. If the conflict is unnecessary, as they more often than not were, then every sacrifice made therein was also unnecessary. Generations worth of people dead for no other reason than to feed the egotistical desires of giant monsters made of a million men Just makes me sad really.
@@DaJimReaper "Pure meritocracy" i mean as long as you ignore that 90% of the people in power ended up being the result of birthright nonsense which is the opposite of meritocracy.
There’s a text-based game, a Legionary’s Life, where you play as a Roman soldier during this exact battle at New Carthage, plus some more of Scipio’s campaigns. Scaling the wall first is hard, but you get nice bonuses from it! If you impress your officers early on you even get to take part in the raid on the northern side, but only if you can quickly prove you’re a worthy soldier. Might have to try it again now
@@Thanhatos Yeah a sequel is coming out next year where you start as a centurion and the combat system is a mix of individual combat and managing your century - Called "Never Second in Rome" and you're following Ceasar around Gual.
Amazingly seen a very recent video, of a still ongoing conflict, where some brain-dead soldiers,of the now extinct urss, riding on Chinese motorcycles, getting ready to storm the defenses of the brave adversary, that in the end of his "motivational" speech shouts " the first one to die its gay"
Bro i have literally wondered about this question every time i see a medieval war movie and now you tube finally randomly recommends this video, this is why i love you tube so much
Worth noting that we shouldn't underestimate how well a military unit can promote acts of daring from individuals who are prone to such. The officers want to reach their objectives, while (arguably) the bulk of the rank and file are more than happy to have someone else take the most dangerous parts of the job. Whether or not we consciously perceive it, the approval of our peers has a tremendous impact on our choices in general, especially for younger people.
oh yeah, group think is a major force in wars.. Look at Germany in WW2, they were all convinced what they were doing was the right thing. governments and nation leaders effectively brainwash armies and the populace into thinking what they are doing is noble and heroic, when really their just pawns fulfilling the leaders' greedy ambitions. Totally indispensable... Nothing honourable about it in the big picture, just in the soldiers' minds. It's unnecessary death. Same with Kamikaze pilots, US soldiers in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan for "freedom", Russian soldiers taking back "what's theirs". Just pawns in what's a game to the leaders. Then of course, there is noble war efforts as well, like, the allied forces stopping Germany, countries defending themselves, like Ukraine, etc.
As a man and when entertaining the concept, you just KNOW, we all have that tingling, that tendril, in us, that could under the right circumstances, environment, nurture, etc. engulf us into doing it lol
This wasn’t just limited to classical armies either. In renaissance era and age of sail era siege battles, the besieging force would as a first assault send a ‘forlorn hope’ party. A unit made up of volunteers who gladly charged into the enemy defenses on the promise that anyone who survived would be rewarded with bonus pay or a promotion
During a battle, Napoleon had a problem with particular outpost in front line that was taking heavy casualties. But once he renamed it as the outpost "For Men WIthout Fear", he had no problem getting volunteers.
"How can we make sure people volunteer to be first die?" "Simple... we promise them riches." "We could go broke......" "No... they won't survive, but they don't know that."
First to fray pay seems to have been very global.. and kind of still is, we just call it hazard pay. I mean, Doppelsoldners reaped wealth just because they get paid double by being in a riskier role. Like shock troops or the very front row. They got double pay because double the risk of getting killed, I recall reading.
2:51 So... was it awarded to the first over the wall *among survivors* or to the first over the wall who also managed to survive the battle? In the first case, it would be awarded at least once after every successful siege. In the second case, it seems it would be awarded almost never 🙃
Who also managed to survive the battle, he directly addresses it in the video.
16 дней назад+1
When I was a small child (probably less then 10 year old) I jumped off of the bunk bed I shared with my older brother, shouting I'm "Ulubatli Hasan", and hurt my arm very badly :-) I think everyone in Turkey knows this guy's name because he was the first to climb the city walls of Constantinopolis when Mehmet II, ottoman sultan, sieged an conquered the city in 1453. Looks like he gained such fame that his name is still remembered five centuries later and inspired small kids to do stupid stunts. :-D This video immediately made me remember that memory.
You forgot that distinction for being "first over the wall" didn't vanish anywhere at the start of the early modern period. Sieges were still a thing and sometimes forces would assault the enemy fortifications. Naturally the vanguard of any attack would be the most dangerous part and hence men needed some oiling up to sign in for them. Hence why anyone joining a forlon hope was awarded a large sum of money and/or promotions.
mate, you don't join the vanguard, you are sent to the vanguard! that wasn't a job, anyone could be sent there, depending on the needs. sometimes the vanguard was the most value soldiers since they needs to hold the position, sometimes it was the cannon fodder, because they just needs to create a buffer zone to allow for some other tactic to work.
Wife: "I think we should see a marriage counsellor when you get back from the war" *Later that month* Soldier: "Yeah I'd like to volunteer to be first on the siege ladder"
Good question! I have actually never thought about that but when studying history you so easily get lost with the kings and generals but of course nearly nothing of that would have happened in history without the commoners and foot soldiers.
You can thank the Great Man Theory for that, which has been perpetuated ever since the dawn of man. We often forget that without the participation of the masses, the people we tend to glorify would be nothing.
Yeah, examples like this showcase how important it is to shape a culture beyond the ruling class. A way in which commoners believe that the system works for them, if they work for the system. You risk your life for the military success of Rome, and Rome will reward you. The obvious issue with taking this as an example for modern politics is that such measures of 'virtue' are fairly simple to evaluate in wartime, but very difficult in an economy. Our fate is largely determined by larger systems, not individuals. Individuals who try to find an analogous 'city wall' to heroically climb often run in all the wrong directions. Just as the video concludes, the need for curageous deeds for individuals is largely replaced by the need for large scale coordination. The true heroicism is often in improving the system. To call out bad leadership and organise better alternatives.
@@arbolmuerto It takes great men to move the masses, especially to organize the masses and make great changes. Both are equally dependent on each other, if not the masses actually being more dependent on great men to actually rally them. Masses never accomplish anything without great people to lead, rally and organize them.
I think a big part is that everyone is the main character of their live and none of them probably truly thought theyd die. Others, sure, but certainly not them.
What kind of thinking is that ? What makes you calm ,focused in battle is the fact that you already accepted your death and you know you are not coming back.
@@filipmitrovic4103 it's the same thought we have nowadays. How many time you exceeded the speed with your car thinking that nothing would happen even tho there's 100 accident every day? We fails to realize we are them, just in a different time
Great video! This gave me detailed answers on something that I really should have wondered about after seeing and reading so much about wars and battles from the past.
In a much later period in 1668 the Pirate Captain Henry Morgan (not the rum) is said to have used ladders that were wide enough for 3 men to climb up at the same time, these were used at the raid of Porto Bello. With the aim of 3 men arriving at the same time, gun fire also acted as a smoke sceeen to help. In addition the forlorn hope, which was the name given to soldiers in these kinds of assaults. Which lasted from the 16th century to the Napoleonic Wars at least (as a term let alone the practice). Which was sometimes decided by the throw of a dice, or young officers in hope for advancement through the ranks and volunteers.
@@andrewherold389 not really, you could be the 2nd or 3rd son in a family and so not got no inheritance or title of note, by volunteering they could get higher ranks, more social prestige and a lot better life.
@@onri_ Sorry? There are nations who are famous for strong warriors, but the USA is not one of them 😂 their recipe is logisitic, airsuperiority and superiority in numbers
Remember that men in WWI would charge across No Man's Land despite knowing they're almost for sure going to die. 'Suicide attacking' an enemy fortification isn't limited to medieval or ancient times. Understanding the experiences of Great War soldiers is probably the best way to answer this video's question
@@SentryWillno, lol, not at all, you don't know how easy it was to overthrow leaders especially among barbarian tribes, they weren't scared of the battle generals at all, they all did it because they wanted to
From my own experience as a hooligan and being a history buff... The warriors that go first up the walls also get the honor to circle the sidelines afterwards. It's a high risk high reward kind of deal. They get the MASSIVE prestige of going first, and if they survive the can mostly sit out the rest of the battle without anyone calling them out on it. Also, whoever goes second, third and so on... They will all be bonded with you by blood, creating your own posse to vouch for you and to safeguard your honor and life
Excellent point. As soon as such a feat is made, it benefits everyone to capitalise on the event and preserve the new inspirational resource that a Hero and the veteran unit around him represent.
The fact that pre -industrial societies had no real economic growth and more surviving children at the top than the bottom meant that the general direction of social mobility was down, so rare chance to move up that war in general, and such high risk actions in particular provided was considered worth the risk.
Average pay for a mercenary in the Ukraine today is around 3000$ a month. Most soldiers in developing countries earn about 1000$ a month on average, ordinary jobs pay way less (600-800$). Many see war as a stepping stone, opportunity to make a large amount of money they could never hope to earn while doing a regular job. That is why we see so many foreign fighters on both sides. Some things never change.
@@nenadmilovanovic5271that’s primarily on the russian side. I don’t think that the many western legionaries benefit financially from fighting for Ukraine. Those whose stories I know certainly don’t, quite the opposite.
@@nenadmilovanovic5271 Foreign fighters of Ukraine seem to be made up of people who generally agree with the ideology of the side they are fighting on rather than any material or social benefit. Russia and Ukraine are locked in a very expensive conflict, neither side really has the budget to pay for international private military companies or foreign fighter legions to join since both sides are relying on foreign aid to gain an upper hand in the conflict. The foreign fighters currently in Ukraine do get paid, at least the ones on the Ukrainian side, but not much even compared to the average US army payment, they more resemble the ideologically focused foreign legions of the Spanish civil war than mercenaries looking to make a profit over politics. The PMCs of the GWOT on the other hand were massive opportunities for anyone who could join them. Western militaries contracted PMCs from across the globe to hold security during counter-terrorism operations overseas and protect VIP's. Most of these PMCs were made up of ex-special forces or seasoned veterans of their respective countries, average pay for the average American operators expected to see combat ranged from around $150k-$250k depending on the PMC and job itself. Western militaries had to basically beg their special forces guys to reenlist instead of leaving and joining a PMC because of how good the pay was and how big of an opportunity this was to advance one's wealth. Despite the financial incentive though, back in the United States and most of western Europe most people see PMCs as shady and unhonourable, so in the case of status there was a regression if anything.
It makes perfect sense today - the first man in the door knows he has about a 50:50 chance at surviving, and yet (in western militaries) close quarters battle is often the domain of special forces. Highly sought-after positions - tier one operators - are likely to experience heavy attrition.
The weird missing thing: once you're in the army you are already risking your life. The commanders already owned your life and could condemn you to death. At a point it becomes possible to discount death and concentrate on the awards one could win.
"The weird missing thing: once you're in the army you are already risking your life. The commanders already owned your life and could condemn you to death." As compared to civilian life? It wasn't military service that ended Socrates' life.
In ancient/medieval China, the term "Xian Deng" 先登, meaning first to reach/scale, is a coveted superlative in the military. Surviving such feats tend to propel them up the ranks quickly given the reverence, reputation, and attestation of their abilities that comes with it.
A very cool indie game in which you can experience in a way, such social climb, is called "A legionary's life"; your first siege is New Carthage, and since it's like a roguelike, even if you fail or decide to just help your centurion to be first over the wall, in laters runs you can have better characters for the attempt; and that changes how you progress, helps getting the best ending.
@@josevictorribeirolisboa7576 bro what? It's literally true though, why are you guys pretending to know more about warrior culture had completely different perspective on life and morals than us, it's like comparing lions or something to humans
@@josevictorribeirolisboa7576 lol, you thought I was talking about a Rambo action type stuff? Sorry but I know more about battle realism than you brother, stay sharp.
People who don't understand why don't understand infantry soldiers. Infantrymen love bragging rights, and being in the heaviest fighting guarantees bragging rights. You cannot succeed as an infantryman being to risk adverse. Most infantrymen would rather be on a combat deployment using their skills rather than being safe in garrison or on some stupid peacetime deployment. Throw in a medal and incentives and you have plenty of motivations.
Yeah I'm not a soldier but I worked close to them and it makes sense that if you spend a ton of time training and getting good at something, you'd want to be challenged. Doubly so for the type of people it attracts. But I can see how the promise of generational wealth would add that little bit extra.
It’s as simple as men have egos it’s part Our our biology and THEY want to be known as the big badass hero’s. That’s how most men are at their core for anything sports , war , school , Video games.
100% correct. I was in the infantry and pulled myself off my first trip to Afghanistan because I had an injury and didn't want people to get hurt if I failed. I did this because we were doing 2 trips and after surgery I was going to be on the second trip. I reinjured myself training for the second trip and didn't get to go on that either. That was in 2013. Watching my mates go a second time broke me. And no matter which way I look at it, and no matter what people say to try and make me feel better, it does nothing to stop the hurting.
Not much to brag about when you're first to die so yes it's befuddling why you'd want to be the first to die, and being first up a wall you WOULD be dying.
@@ronintiger it was a name used since the 16th century, in terms of when the practice ended it could be well after we only know when the name was less used.
Ancient Rome was ruled by militant values, so we don't view their violence as any different from their average person; violence was just a product of the times. It makes sense to depict their warriors as ordinary people. The teachings of the Medieval period, on the other hand, were more focused on the virtues taught in the Beatitudes, such as "the meek shall inherit the Earth" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - focused on humility and charity rather than brute strength. So we depict them in a more negative light when we find that their governments and clergymen abused their power in the brutish ways we'd expect of the Romans. Put simply, we hold them to a higher standard because they had better moral standards, and we depict them as ugly because they often didn't live up to those standards. You can even see this in Roman history itself - people today criticize Christian Rome's persecution of the Pagans more than they criticize Pagan Rome's persecution of the Christians, despite the fact that it was still the same Rome, with many of its cultural elements still in place.
You really know how to explain historical phenomena not just from our own, but from their cultural point of view. That´s a rare thing to see on RUclips! Thank you!
I want to highlight one such historic event from Indian history in 1600 AD where men sacrificed themselves to earn the right to fight in the vanguard....Maharana Amar Singh Ji, son of the legendary Maharana Pratap, continued his father's fight against Emperor Akbar to free Mewar. Among the fortresses he sought to reclaim was the famous Utala Fort, now known as Vallabhnagar, located 39 km east of Udaipur. In 1600 AD, Maharana Amar Singh Ji surrounded the fort, engaging in a fierce battle against Kayam Kha, a Mughal officer. Maharana Amar Singh killed Kayam Kha, but the remaining Mughal forces retreated into the fort, closing its gates. A dispute arose among Mewar's warriors, the Chundavats and Shaktavats, about who should be in the vanguard (first line) of battle. Both sides wanted the honor of being the first to sacrifice themselves in war. To resolve the dispute, Maharana Amar Singh Ji declared that whoever first entered the fort would earn the right to lead. Both sides prepared for battle. Ballu Singh Shaktawat led his group to the main gate of the fort, while Jait Singh Chundawat led his men to scale the walls. As Ballu Ji attempted to break the gate using an elephant, he sacrificed himself by standing on sharp spikes to prevent the elephant from retreating. His heroic act broke the fort’s doors, and the Shaktavats stormed in. At the same time, Jait Singh Chundawat, despite being fatally shot, ordered his comrades to sever his head and throw it into the fort to claim victory for the Chundavats. In the end, both groups entered the fort, slaughtered the Mughal forces, and reclaimed Utala. The Chundavats upheld their traditional right to lead, but the heroism of both Ballu Singh Shaktawat and Jait Singh Chundawat was undeniable. Maharana Amar Singh Ji honored the sacrifices made, acknowledging that their valor would inspire future generations.
Whaaat??? I didn't know that crown medal was a Roman thing. We use them here in Malta for such great forts of history like Mdina, Valletta, Birgu etc 😮
Loved this video on the significance of being the first on the wall in ancient sieges! The corona muralis, or mural crown, was indeed a coveted award in ancient Rome. What struck me was how this award wasn't just about personal glory but also had significant social and political implications. Receiving the corona muralis could elevate not just the individual but their entire family's status. The Roman emphasis on military virtue (virtus) is fascinating. It's remarkable how closely tied military success was to political power and social standing. I'd like to add that this culture of valorizing military achievements wasn't unique to Rome. In ancient Greece, for example, the concept of "aristeia" recognized exceptional bravery in battle. Also, the evolution of siege warfare tactics is interesting. As you mentioned, coordinated assaults replaced individual heroic feats in the early modern period. One minor correction: the Roman historian mentioned is likely Livy (Titus Livius), not Liby.
Motivation is needed to encourage your soldiers to fight for you and not run when the first thing to hit the fan happens. Rome itself had many incentives for their military: •Roman citizenship if you fought in the auxiliary •you was granted land to settle once your military tenure was up •many cases you could get spoils of loot sacking cities •you got some of the best military training in the world at the time being part of the Roman war machine which made you very valuable in many ways, first Rome offered incentives to retired legionnaires to be “volunteer soldiers” and being granted land had bonuses for Rome itself as you had citizens on the frontier capable of defending themselves from foreign invaders because of their previous military experience. It was a bonus for both sides in the end that Rome rewarded their soldiers so generously. • then there’s the most obvious reason, social status. If you lived a full tenure, odds are you worked your way up the ranks and secured a lot of family wealth and prestige to carry on multiple generations. Military service was a must for any politician with any serious ambitions. So it’s not surprising to me that Rome would have incentives for certain military tasks like climbing walls and such. Take care of your soldiers, and there’s a lot they’ll do for you
That’s an easy question to answer. If the attackers are trained and have been with each other for long enough one days it for your buddies. It’s so at odds with survival but a warrior would themselves rather die than their battle buddies. Those buddies are your friends and have become closer than family. Only another warrior would understand what you’ve been thru. I served over 40 years ago and talk to my buddies often. We go 20 years without seeing each other but when together again it was like no time passed at all. Except we don’t move as quickly anymore.
thats not really comparable. today we dont exactly have the concept of a wholesale "retreat" anymore. only "tactical retreat". back then you could have thousands of soldiers fleeing the battlefield, and unless they all grew up in the same village i dont see why they would feel connected to each other.
I always figured that the first guy to get over the wall was the first dead guy to get over the wall. It never looked promising, no matter the status. Thanks for enlightening us, because I never would have guessed that it was an enviable position!
I am Sargent in Brasilian army, here we have in our formation a man called "ponta" "ponta de lança" (edge, or spear edge) this guy is the first in formation and also go in a centain distant (in some cases) clearing e making the first contact with enemy, his generaly a guy who better knows the territory, and is a pride and honor be that guy
Thank you. This is one of the main questions that has been stuck in my head after listening to all of Joe Abercrombie's novels. There's a character that has 5 blue star tattoos on his hands for being first up the wall 5x, and I always wondered how accurate that was.
Fornlorn hopes would still receive promotions and monetary rewards for their actions in the early modern period (one of the few common ways to get past the entrenched seniority system of promotion, it probably helped that such an event would cull officers considerably and leave many vacancies for the survivors). Into the 20th century elite units would usually be the ones sent in in the first place, like the shock battalions of the Russian civil war, cities remained fortified centres that were hard for units like cavalry to take alone, General Wrangel pioneered the use of combined arms to take them, and was successful as they was a reason the red army had serious issues on open ground or without a concentration of force, the main impediment was the defences of the city, once broken through the garrison usually showed the limitations of armed workers militias and poorly motivated conscripts. But without excellent command and control the defences typically narrowed the difference and made the cities bastions in a sea of White territory.
The Gauls were significantly more advanced as they are often portrayed to be. Not as sophisticated as the heart of Rome, but they had well fortified settlements, stone architecture, proper logistics systems and road networks, trade spanning across western Europe, advanced metallurgy and even their own sewerage and waterworks systems in larger settlements.
@@luka188Yes. Not brick though. They used a technique called after them today. Murus gallicus was a Gallic fortification made from a timber frame filled with earth and stones. It was strong and resistant to attacks and fire.
Competing to be the first on the wall, wow. People love social competition through the bone and out the other side. 0:42 wow, this is straight into the period near the beginning of the first punic war. Thank you for the book recommendations in the description btw. 4:20 this is a lot of artwork, man. I don't know if this is image diffusion, or a very dedicated set of artists, but either way, the quality and specificity at this quantity is extremely impressive. The art reminds me a lot of MenasLG, and also the guy who's making art for Lindybeige's unreleased comic.
Caesar was one of the soldiers who choose to repeatedly be on the very front lines of the battle field. It’s theorized that that’s how he got epilepsy. From being struck on the head. He lived through countless battles as a front line soldier and made it to the highest possible rank. He was a true warrior before he was a tyrant
I was always under the impression that it was something you got volun-told to do at least for most. "Someone's going to have to be in the vanguard. Who wants to go? .....Okay, Lucius, Quintus, Castor, you just volunteered."
Broadly speaking, volunteers are going to be more effective at tasks than conscripts. People operate on incentives, and while you can create negative incentives worse than "near certain death", such incentives tend to have the knock-on effect of incentivizing people to just stay the hell away from your military. Bit of carrot goes a long way.
Being stayed at the bottom and waiting to be killed from the arrow is cool, but the opportunity and the manly urge to clean all the enemies at the wall all by yourself is just too good to be missed😂
There is actually a modern comparison that could have been made here that is more realistic than the 'Global Fame'. You could look at Eisenhower and how he managed to turn his military experience guiding Allied forces to victory, and winning accolades along the way, into political power. There have been multiple US Medal of Honor recipients that went on to have political careers using the fame from their awards.
Yeah I instantly thought about Eisenhower when he brought up CMH recipients even though Eisenhower never got it, probably the closest comparison would be Ulysses s Grant, and no Grant never got the CMH but he was made general of the armies, a rank held only by Washington and later Pershing, no one else has ever held that rank, he later went on to be president and was buried in a Roman like mausoleum, I guess that made him America's version of restore of the world .
Thanks for captioning this video! Fascinating. One question - the honor went to the man who made it to the top of the wall first and survived? Or it had to be the absolutely first man who made it to the top and if he was to die, there's no next person to give the honor to? If so, I'm sure it's per assault effort? Meaning after regrouping and assaulting the wall again, someone else has a chance at the honor. Otherwise what would motivate them?
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
"wall scaler"
1.8% of soldiers have this achievement
"First on the wall"
0.00001% have this achievement.
@@Tom_Quixote(loud ass noise diamond pop up!) you got balls!
@@Tom_Quixote 1.8% ? this is laughable... I am sure this guy plays lotto 🙂
your percentage is more realistic, that's why I don't play lotto.
Gen Z calculating math
@@SamuelLanghorn0.00001% ? This is laughable... I am sure you guys play lotto !
My percentage is more realistic, that's why i don't play lotto :D (0.0000000715% is your chance of winning at lotto with 6 number from 49)
They climbed up with the dream that one day a youtuber will make a video about them.
Not totally incorrect if you think about it
being remembered two thousand years later seems like a pretty good legacy to me
Echoes in eternity
@@johnlee7164 what we do in life
isn't that why any of us do anything?
the first could say "first". ancient Rome was just like the comment section.
PRIMUS!
😂😂😂
@@fennisdembo34 Primus commentus (like primus pilus).
They had an actual Forum.
Damn it! Your first on the wall!😂
Those wall warfare pictures are so wholesome. Men living their best lives and enjoying it to the fullest, not a single cellphone in sight.
Probably because they used landlines back then.
@@ninjaguyYTBruh, it was the telegrams and morse codes.
@@tomaccino Bruh, more like pigeons with notes.
@@ninjaguyYTKen M type comment
@@ZeddieLittle Bruh, more like runners with notes
That is precisely the question I always wanted to know, even though I never asked myself even once.
same feeling here
Me too! Strange
All I can offer as a US Marine. Part of it is really good training and the other part is becoming a team, a real team, a family-like team, a literal "I will die for you" team/family.
I did get any direct fire incidents. But during the first of several bombing attacks we sustained I noticed how quickly and naturally I jumped on top of a "junior" Marine. I was his leader. So he was mine to protect. That's how I was trained and that's how I felt. It was my duty to die protecting him.
However, in a wall siege offensive situation.... you go up that wall because someone has to go up that wall. And to refuse to go is to say your life is more valuable than the man next to you. I think a man without children would often volunteer probably.
It's a wild and hard to swallow concept but yes there are times when we will lay down our lives for each other. Depends on what you are fighting for.
In the Marines, we really fought for each other. Leave no man behind type stuff.
Funny enough and not quite the same but my buddy was actually the first vehicle(an armored tractor) to breach Fallujah during the Second Battle of Falujah in 2004. He got lit up by multiple rockets but wasn't injured. His tractor was demolished though. So he had to run to another truck under fire. In his case, he was first because he was lowest ranking member trained to operate an armored tractor. (They had made a barrier around the city using cars, so a tractor was needed to push the cars out the way so other vehicles could get thru).
My buddy wasn't exactly excited to be first into Fallujah but he wasn't gonna whimp out and let someone else take a bullet that was meant for him. Survivor's guilt is a very real thing.
My buddy survived. We lost two guys. I wasn't close with them tho.
It's crazy what we will do for one another and yet crazy what we can do to one another. Great good and evil.
I struggled since war but luckily found Jesus. Worth the fight.
@@cplbird8179Thank you for your service man.
BRO WTF SAME 😭
The fact that Trebellius's family line went on to become tribunes, legats and consuls all because he was first on the wall just shows how it was undeniably worth the risk.
Edit: I don't care if you personally wouldn't want to risk your life but objectively this was the fastest way to go from the lower classes to the highest positions in Rome, elevate the social status of your family for generations to come and having your name be immortalized in history.
Well, no. That's nothing more than an assumption and negates possible talents of the other individuals.
@@TheSuperhoden True but his contribution is what them notable enough to be there in the first place.
@@TheSuperhoden while there was meritocracy in the Roman legions, being put into the higher positions would have required an education beyond what the typical Roman would have been given.
Trebellius' deeds enabled him to elevate his family line, which put them in better positions to make use of their talents. It likely also served to inspire his descendent to strive for greater deeds
@@TheSuperhodenNewsflash! Privilege has existed as long as mankind has, Nepotism arrived a few generations later.
No doubt they had relevant skills, but these would have been totally overlooked without some sort of existing social status, such as being first in the comments section 😉🤷♂️😁
I can see how this was tempting........ It`s like if today, you and your family became all trust-fund kids with a social status of the Kenedys.........I would not do is for me, but if I had a wife and some children back at home that were barely getting by, and this was my best chanche, I would consider it.....
Army vs Marines rivalry goes back a long time.
interservices rivalries, a tall as old as time.
I guarentee, there weren't three armed men on land and sea by the time the Army vs Marines rivalry was born.
Except that they re my ancestors not yours ❤❤
@AlecMason-n4v do your history homework, theyre almost everyone's ancestors
@@AlecMason-n4v Do you even know where OP is from?
Competitiveness a good attribute and a strong motivator in a work field where 2nd place may lead to death.
"My great grandfather was first on the wall at New Carthage and for that reason, your bill sucks ass and will not be brought before the Senate"
-Consul Marcus Trebellius Maximus
Rome was so awesome
Unironically based
Liberals would have 0 chance in a system like that nowadays because they're too afraid to offend the pronouns of people up on the wall 🧱
LOL
Plato just started flexing on people in debates. Better times
They have not yet thought about catapulting men OVER the wall with parachutes. How about paratroopers who landed first during Battle of Greece and Operation Market Garden - do they get rewards ?
Being the first soldier to scale the wall and LIVE is actually insane. Literally all eyes are on you. Archers, slingers, crossbowmen, spearmen ECT are all out to get YOU.
Your post was the only intelligent one I could find.
I suppose all the dead guys that went over before you cant complain about your claim 😅
What a striking query. It grabbed my attention IMMEDIATELY.
That would be bad ass as an introduction, “Centurion Quintis Virtus, First on the Wall!”
and made it back alive in one piece!!
Depends which wall, I don't think my neighbour would be best pleased if I decide to claim that title
Of course they did, Gauls weren’t primitive they had plenty of towns and cities with stoneworks and paved roads.
Shield of arrows. Blade of death
@@Alex-cw3rz that's why no one will remember your name 🗿
I appreciate the variety of styles of soldiers used in the art. It emphasizes how this was something that happened for a very long time including many types of soldiers from many states and empires
Also that the Roman army changed over time. Our idea of the "Roman army" is fixed in the 1st Century BC for the most part, due to Caesar, Antony, Octavian etc. But the army of Late Antiquity was very different. Centuries of evolution fighting many different opponents and the use of cavalry integrated into the army or as auxiliaries with spurs meant that the army of 300 AD would smash the army of 50 BC without much effort, even if Caesar was leading it.
No, it's not from many states or empires...it's Roman. One European empire, that's it.
similar in ancient chinese warfare. first on the wall, capturing the flag, in a unit dedicated to break into enemy formation, killing the enemy general, are the 4 hardest and possibly the best achievement a soldier can fathom, the reward of achieving these are so great that can change a soldier's social class entirely. They are often rewarded with cash/gold, good land for farming, and higher military rank.
they could be declared liars and be ignored or worse
how can they prove anything in a chaos which is a warfare
my idea is they was doing this because they were manipulated and brainwashed sorta "its a big honour your mother will pride of you" like it is in modern times
The penalty for lying is extremely high (death or worse) and there are tons of military witnesses around (who take honour extremely seriously). These are trained military men, not incompetent randos, nobody is going to throw away their reputation just to give you a social leg up.
@@gooel There are even cases in Chinese history where multiple soldiers took part in killing a general and were all rewarded equally. Being generous to those who did a heroic deed encourages others to act more bravely and fight more fiercely in the hopes of also getting rewarded.
@@Ankhar2332 Would that happen in the past? Sure, there must be cases like that. However, pretty sure any army which doesn't value meritocracy properly wouldn't fare too well in the history book and probably would have been forgotten by now. There are reasons why Rome became so dominant in that era, and their societal culture is one of the root causes.
@@Ankhar2332People actually had honor back then if you studied history. Now people don't even have pride or honor, they just show up in pajamas at their local Walmart.
Love the arbiters standing in between two units of clearly skilled units champing at the bit. Took the clearly safest way out, "Surely you BOTH were first, that sounds good to us."
These days they would use VAR!
My father would break down in tears as he talked about his fellow Marines on Iwo Jima who were ordered over the birm into withering Japanese machine gun fire and certain death but they went anyway. They knew they were going to die as soldiers did on the beaches of Normandy, the trenches of Verdun, the fields of Gettysburg and so many other battlefields throughout history.
@jackking2588 the japs were pricks during that time no way of sugar coating it and dont mean to be racist. I have compassion for any soldier serving and giving his life to it. But the Absurdity of War is crazy. Can't stop won't stop
These kinds of motivations definitely made a lot more sense in the era of birthrights. Your lineage determined your fate but anything that allowed you to circumvent those circumstances was literally priceless. Makes a lot of sense that men would chance their lives at something they could literally never obtain otherwise.
Performance based compensation taken to the extreme.
It's crazy but incredibly admirable and I would say overall a positive thing right? Peak meritocracy for the lower ranks of society. The kind of man this thinking forges is so fascinating to me.
@@DaJimReapersame man. I am pondering this for at leas a decade now and it seems, even though this makes for much worse living conditions for "the masses" in the short term, it makes for much quicker global advancement and more wealth for humanity in the long term.
@DaJimReaper honestly, all I see in this is another way Leviathan devised to incentivize people to sacrifice their interests for the interest of the state.
If the conflict is unnecessary, as they more often than not were, then every sacrifice made therein was also unnecessary.
Generations worth of people dead for no other reason than to feed the egotistical desires of giant monsters made of a million men
Just makes me sad really.
@@DaJimReaper "Pure meritocracy" i mean as long as you ignore that 90% of the people in power ended up being the result of birthright nonsense which is the opposite of meritocracy.
There’s a text-based game, a Legionary’s Life, where you play as a Roman soldier during this exact battle at New Carthage, plus some more of Scipio’s campaigns. Scaling the wall first is hard, but you get nice bonuses from it! If you impress your officers early on you even get to take part in the raid on the northern side, but only if you can quickly prove you’re a worthy soldier. Might have to try it again now
It takes alot of rounds to start with enough points to be able to survive that though.
A Legionary's life, and that's a splendid game !
@@Thanhatos Yeah a sequel is coming out next year where you start as a centurion and the combat system is a mix of individual combat and managing your century - Called "Never Second in Rome" and you're following Ceasar around Gual.
@@kellyshistory306 Oh thank you for the information ! (I just discovered recently the 1st game. ^^).
That game is hard in general lol
"Last one on top of the wall is gay."
Bro what you said that I literally felt a physical jolt rolling through my body urging me to climb
Weren’t they all? 😂
Amazingly seen a very recent video, of a still ongoing conflict, where some brain-dead soldiers,of the now extinct urss, riding on Chinese motorcycles, getting ready to storm the defenses of the brave adversary, that in the end of his "motivational" speech shouts " the first one to die its gay"
Fax
@@JohnLee-jk5ewwe're talking about Romans, not ancient Greeks
Bro i have literally wondered about this question every time i see a medieval war movie and now you tube finally randomly recommends this video, this is why i love you tube so much
Worth noting that we shouldn't underestimate how well a military unit can promote acts of daring from individuals who are prone to such. The officers want to reach their objectives, while (arguably) the bulk of the rank and file are more than happy to have someone else take the most dangerous parts of the job. Whether or not we consciously perceive it, the approval of our peers has a tremendous impact on our choices in general, especially for younger people.
oh yeah, group think is a major force in wars.. Look at Germany in WW2, they were all convinced what they were doing was the right thing. governments and nation leaders effectively brainwash armies and the populace into thinking what they are doing is noble and heroic, when really their just pawns fulfilling the leaders' greedy ambitions. Totally indispensable... Nothing honourable about it in the big picture, just in the soldiers' minds. It's unnecessary death. Same with Kamikaze pilots, US soldiers in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan for "freedom", Russian soldiers taking back "what's theirs". Just pawns in what's a game to the leaders.
Then of course, there is noble war efforts as well, like, the allied forces stopping Germany, countries defending themselves, like Ukraine, etc.
The masculine urge to be the first to scale the wall
As a man and when entertaining the concept, you just KNOW, we all have that tingling, that tendril, in us, that could under the right circumstances, environment, nurture, etc. engulf us into doing it lol
"The last one on the wall is gay"
look while you guys go scale walls in the frontier
i'm gonna real estate speculate back in rome
we'll see who climbs station faster
Now we urge to be the first on RUclips comments 😂
So warfare has become feminin... ?
"The last one on the wall is gay!"
Easy as that
Doesn’t mean the first one on the wall was straight.😂
The Greeks have no such weakness
As a Roman soldier I was gay in the front line
People first on the wall shouting down "why are you gay"
@@MusicReign 🤣
So I said I come to take your femboys
This wasn’t just limited to classical armies either. In renaissance era and age of sail era siege battles, the besieging force would as a first assault send a ‘forlorn hope’ party. A unit made up of volunteers who gladly charged into the enemy defenses on the promise that anyone who survived would be rewarded with bonus pay or a promotion
During a battle, Napoleon had a problem with particular outpost in front line that was taking heavy casualties.
But once he renamed it as the outpost "For Men WIthout Fear", he had no problem getting volunteers.
"How can we make sure people volunteer to be first die?"
"Simple... we promise them riches."
"We could go broke......"
"No... they won't survive, but they don't know that."
First to fray pay seems to have been very global.. and kind of still is, we just call it hazard pay.
I mean, Doppelsoldners reaped wealth just because they get paid double by being in a riskier role. Like shock troops or the very front row. They got double pay because double the risk of getting killed, I recall reading.
7:28
2:51 So... was it awarded to the first over the wall *among survivors* or to the first over the wall who also managed to survive the battle? In the first case, it would be awarded at least once after every successful siege. In the second case, it seems it would be awarded almost never 🙃
Who also managed to survive the battle, he directly addresses it in the video.
When I was a small child (probably less then 10 year old) I jumped off of the bunk bed I shared with my older brother, shouting I'm "Ulubatli Hasan", and hurt my arm very badly :-) I think everyone in Turkey knows this guy's name because he was the first to climb the city walls of Constantinopolis when Mehmet II, ottoman sultan, sieged an conquered the city in 1453. Looks like he gained such fame that his name is still remembered five centuries later and inspired small kids to do stupid stunts. :-D This video immediately made me remember that memory.
You forgot that distinction for being "first over the wall" didn't vanish anywhere at the start of the early modern period. Sieges were still a thing and sometimes forces would assault the enemy fortifications. Naturally the vanguard of any attack would be the most dangerous part and hence men needed some oiling up to sign in for them. Hence why anyone joining a forlon hope was awarded a large sum of money and/or promotions.
mate, you don't join the vanguard, you are sent to the vanguard! that wasn't a job, anyone could be sent there, depending on the needs. sometimes the vanguard was the most value soldiers since they needs to hold the position, sometimes it was the cannon fodder, because they just needs to create a buffer zone to allow for some other tactic to work.
@@mikatu
No. Forlon Hopes were done by volunteers (With nice heavy purses.), or by penal units.
@@mikatustop talking, you are a fool
"First through the Breach"
Also oiling up with a few tots of rum.
Wife: "I think we should see a marriage counsellor when you get back from the war"
*Later that month*
Soldier: "Yeah I'd like to volunteer to be first on the siege ladder"
Hmmm she wouldn't really have much say.
Better not tell her the contract is 25 years.
Good question! I have actually never thought about that but when studying history you so easily get lost with the kings and generals but of course nearly nothing of that would have happened in history without the commoners and foot soldiers.
You can thank the Great Man Theory for that, which has been perpetuated ever since the dawn of man.
We often forget that without the participation of the masses, the people we tend to glorify would be nothing.
True, but the reverse is also true. Without the great military strategists, the army wouldn't be anything either@arbolmuerto
Yeah, examples like this showcase how important it is to shape a culture beyond the ruling class. A way in which commoners believe that the system works for them, if they work for the system.
You risk your life for the military success of Rome, and Rome will reward you.
The obvious issue with taking this as an example for modern politics is that such measures of 'virtue' are fairly simple to evaluate in wartime, but very difficult in an economy. Our fate is largely determined by larger systems, not individuals. Individuals who try to find an analogous 'city wall' to heroically climb often run in all the wrong directions.
Just as the video concludes, the need for curageous deeds for individuals is largely replaced by the need for large scale coordination. The true heroicism is often in improving the system. To call out bad leadership and organise better alternatives.
@@arbolmuerto It takes great men to move the masses, especially to organize the masses and make great changes. Both are equally dependent on each other, if not the masses actually being more dependent on great men to actually rally them. Masses never accomplish anything without great people to lead, rally and organize them.
@@T33K3SS3LCH3N How do you do all that?
I think a big part is that everyone is the main character of their live and none of them probably truly thought theyd die. Others, sure, but certainly not them.
What kind of thinking is that ? What makes you calm ,focused in battle is the fact that you already accepted your death and you know you are not coming back.
@filipmitrovic4103 nah. You made that up.
That’s so stupid lol
spoken like someone who's never seen combat
@@filipmitrovic4103 it's the same thought we have nowadays. How many time you exceeded the speed with your car thinking that nothing would happen even tho there's 100 accident every day? We fails to realize we are them, just in a different time
Great video! This gave me detailed answers on something that I really should have wondered about after seeing and reading so much about wars and battles from the past.
In a much later period in 1668 the Pirate Captain Henry Morgan (not the rum) is said to have used ladders that were wide enough for 3 men to climb up at the same time, these were used at the raid of Porto Bello. With the aim of 3 men arriving at the same time, gun fire also acted as a smoke sceeen to help.
In addition the forlorn hope, which was the name given to soldiers in these kinds of assaults. Which lasted from the 16th century to the Napoleonic Wars at least (as a term let alone the practice). Which was sometimes decided by the throw of a dice, or young officers in hope for advancement through the ranks and volunteers.
You'd have to be nuts !
@@andrewherold389 sorry?
3 men or 1 American
@@andrewherold389 not really, you could be the 2nd or 3rd son in a family and so not got no inheritance or title of note, by volunteering they could get higher ranks, more social prestige and a lot better life.
@@onri_ Sorry? There are nations who are famous for strong warriors, but the USA is not one of them 😂 their recipe is logisitic, airsuperiority and superiority in numbers
Remember that men in WWI would charge across No Man's Land despite knowing they're almost for sure going to die. 'Suicide attacking' an enemy fortification isn't limited to medieval or ancient times. Understanding the experiences of Great War soldiers is probably the best way to answer this video's question
Well yeah because they'd likely get shot if they didn't by their superiors
The Russians are doing the exact same thing.
@@sandran17 Pre-modern military leaders would have operated with the same (if not, a more brutal) mentality as well.
@@SentryWillno, lol, not at all, you don't know how easy it was to overthrow leaders especially among barbarian tribes, they weren't scared of the battle generals at all, they all did it because they wanted to
WWI was famous for its gruelling stalemates. More soldiers died from disease than from glorious combat.
"Legatus, do it for the Vine!"
YOLO
@@stevecooper7883HTOT: habitas tantum uno tempore
@@stevecooper7883YOU ONLY LEGIONNAIRE ONCE!
For the wine
Before he was struck down he dabbed in defiance
From my own experience as a hooligan and being a history buff... The warriors that go first up the walls also get the honor to circle the sidelines afterwards. It's a high risk high reward kind of deal. They get the MASSIVE prestige of going first, and if they survive the can mostly sit out the rest of the battle without anyone calling them out on it. Also, whoever goes second, third and so on... They will all be bonded with you by blood, creating your own posse to vouch for you and to safeguard your honor and life
Yeah good point.
Excellent point. As soon as such a feat is made, it benefits everyone to capitalise on the event and preserve the new inspirational resource that a Hero and the veteran unit around him represent.
It was “I double dog dare you to climb the siege ladder first”
The fact that pre -industrial societies had no real economic growth and more surviving children at the top than the bottom meant that the general direction of social mobility was down, so rare chance to move up that war in general, and such high risk actions in particular provided was considered worth the risk.
Average pay for a mercenary in the Ukraine today is around 3000$ a month. Most soldiers in developing countries earn about 1000$ a month on average, ordinary jobs pay way less (600-800$). Many see war as a stepping stone, opportunity to make a large amount of money they could never hope to earn while doing a regular job. That is why we see so many foreign fighters on both sides.
Some things never change.
You literally explained the student loan system vs GI Bill in the US
@@nenadmilovanovic5271 >ordinary jobs pay way less (600-800$)
lol I wish
@@nenadmilovanovic5271that’s primarily on the russian side. I don’t think that the many western legionaries benefit financially from fighting for Ukraine. Those whose stories I know certainly don’t, quite the opposite.
@@nenadmilovanovic5271 Foreign fighters of Ukraine seem to be made up of people who generally agree with the ideology of the side they are fighting on rather than any material or social benefit. Russia and Ukraine are locked in a very expensive conflict, neither side really has the budget to pay for international private military companies or foreign fighter legions to join since both sides are relying on foreign aid to gain an upper hand in the conflict. The foreign fighters currently in Ukraine do get paid, at least the ones on the Ukrainian side, but not much even compared to the average US army payment, they more resemble the ideologically focused foreign legions of the Spanish civil war than mercenaries looking to make a profit over politics. The PMCs of the GWOT on the other hand were massive opportunities for anyone who could join them. Western militaries contracted PMCs from across the globe to hold security during counter-terrorism operations overseas and protect VIP's. Most of these PMCs were made up of ex-special forces or seasoned veterans of their respective countries, average pay for the average American operators expected to see combat ranged from around $150k-$250k depending on the PMC and job itself. Western militaries had to basically beg their special forces guys to reenlist instead of leaving and joining a PMC because of how good the pay was and how big of an opportunity this was to advance one's wealth. Despite the financial incentive though, back in the United States and most of western Europe most people see PMCs as shady and unhonourable, so in the case of status there was a regression if anything.
It makes perfect sense today - the first man in the door knows he has about a 50:50 chance at surviving, and yet (in western militaries) close quarters battle is often the domain of special forces. Highly sought-after positions - tier one operators - are likely to experience heavy attrition.
Every team needs an entry fragger
thats not a 50 percent chance
The weird missing thing: once you're in the army you are already risking your life. The commanders already owned your life and could condemn you to death. At a point it becomes possible to discount death and concentrate on the awards one could win.
Easier said than done.
@@thekinginyellow1744 Social pressure is often a strong motivator
"The weird missing thing: once you're in the army you are already risking your life. The commanders already owned your life and could condemn you to death."
As compared to civilian life? It wasn't military service that ended Socrates' life.
@@roadent217 "Ackchyually" 🤓☝️
@@Rust_Rust_Rust "I went to a history video, and people are discussing history! How could this happen to me? 😰"
They did it by being raised on the belief that honor and courage are the highest pursuits. It’s amazing what people are capable of when they believe
In ancient/medieval China, the term "Xian Deng" 先登, meaning first to reach/scale, is a coveted superlative in the military. Surviving such feats tend to propel them up the ranks quickly given the reverence, reputation, and attestation of their abilities that comes with it.
A very cool indie game in which you can experience in a way, such social climb, is called "A legionary's life"; your first siege is New Carthage, and since it's like a roguelike, even if you fail or decide to just help your centurion to be first over the wall, in laters runs you can have better characters for the attempt; and that changes how you progress, helps getting the best ending.
There is also a game named "Lost Legions" about that available on Steam.
Leeroooooy Jenkins!
Let's do this!
"He just went in, oh God, remember the plan guys"
Give "winner winner chicken dinner" a new meaning
Lol Black Adder
In the Chinese, this is called Xianden, and it also gives great economic and social status.
Nah, they did it because of glory and battle love
@@jasrajsandhu1658This isn't anime.
@@josevictorribeirolisboa7576 bro what? It's literally true though, why are you guys pretending to know more about warrior culture had completely different perspective on life and morals than us, it's like comparing lions or something to humans
@@jasrajsandhu1658A lion still dies if enough arrows shoot him. You are describing suicide.
@@josevictorribeirolisboa7576 lol, you thought I was talking about a Rambo action type stuff? Sorry but I know more about battle realism than you brother, stay sharp.
I have been pondering this concept on so many sleepless nights! Lol. The algorithm came thru 👏
Great video, and amazing content , thank u for this, I have always wondered (in my head) about this !!
The graphics in this video are very well done. I really enjoyed the depictions.
People who don't understand why don't understand infantry soldiers. Infantrymen love bragging rights, and being in the heaviest fighting guarantees bragging rights. You cannot succeed as an infantryman being to risk adverse. Most infantrymen would rather be on a combat deployment using their skills rather than being safe in garrison or on some stupid peacetime deployment. Throw in a medal and incentives and you have plenty of motivations.
Yeah I'm not a soldier but I worked close to them and it makes sense that if you spend a ton of time training and getting good at something, you'd want to be challenged. Doubly so for the type of people it attracts.
But I can see how the promise of generational wealth would add that little bit extra.
All through this video I was thinking "This narrator has clearly never been in the military". I would add that it's not just the infantrymen.
It’s as simple as men have egos it’s part
Our our biology and THEY want to be known as the big badass hero’s. That’s how most men are at their core for anything sports , war , school , Video games.
100% correct. I was in the infantry and pulled myself off my first trip to Afghanistan because I had an injury and didn't want people to get hurt if I failed. I did this because we were doing 2 trips and after surgery I was going to be on the second trip. I reinjured myself training for the second trip and didn't get to go on that either. That was in 2013. Watching my mates go a second time broke me. And no matter which way I look at it, and no matter what people say to try and make me feel better, it does nothing to stop the hurting.
Not much to brag about when you're first to die so yes it's befuddling why you'd want to be the first to die, and being first up a wall you WOULD be dying.
Because they got to say “first”
I do this same thing except in RUclips comments.
@@Chris_Richardand no one cares 🤗
@@GreasyBeastyI care.
@@GreasyBeasty I care.
@@GreasyBeasty Greatness needs to be acknowledged.
Liked and subbed. Magnificently presented history. THANK YOU.
Wave one is often almost completely wiped out in every battle...
well, forlorn hope was still a thing in the Napoleonic Era, with the men who took part in the initial assault were guaranteed a promotion.
wow thats a real thing? I only knew of it through the infinity war series
@@ronintiger it was a name used since the 16th century, in terms of when the practice ended it could be well after we only know when the name was less used.
I remember this from a Sharpe episode.
@@ronintiger from the Dutch verloren hoop, the "heap" of men who were already considered lost
I love how cool looking roman-period soldiers are in these videos, and how fucked up middle-ages soldiers are portrayed
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed that. Went from Gigachad to Hunchback of Notre Dame
Ancient Rome was ruled by militant values, so we don't view their violence as any different from their average person; violence was just a product of the times. It makes sense to depict their warriors as ordinary people.
The teachings of the Medieval period, on the other hand, were more focused on the virtues taught in the Beatitudes, such as "the meek shall inherit the Earth" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - focused on humility and charity rather than brute strength. So we depict them in a more negative light when we find that their governments and clergymen abused their power in the brutish ways we'd expect of the Romans. Put simply, we hold them to a higher standard because they had better moral standards, and we depict them as ugly because they often didn't live up to those standards.
You can even see this in Roman history itself - people today criticize Christian Rome's persecution of the Pagans more than they criticize Pagan Rome's persecution of the Christians, despite the fact that it was still the same Rome, with many of its cultural elements still in place.
Awesome! I would have liked to hear more about medieval examples, but your detail on the Roman Republic is top notch.
Imagine the ladder getting set up and everyone just standing around the bottom doing rock paper scissors to decide who goes first.
"Dibs on rock!"
I've had this video in my youtube front page for the last week every day, you win algorithm, I'll watch it
You really know how to explain historical phenomena not just from our own, but from their cultural point of view. That´s a rare thing to see on RUclips! Thank you!
I want to highlight one such historic event from Indian history in 1600 AD where men sacrificed themselves to earn the right to fight in the vanguard....Maharana Amar Singh Ji, son of the legendary Maharana Pratap, continued his father's fight against Emperor Akbar to free Mewar. Among the fortresses he sought to reclaim was the famous Utala Fort, now known as Vallabhnagar, located 39 km east of Udaipur. In 1600 AD, Maharana Amar Singh Ji surrounded the fort, engaging in a fierce battle against Kayam Kha, a Mughal officer. Maharana Amar Singh killed Kayam Kha, but the remaining Mughal forces retreated into the fort, closing its gates.
A dispute arose among Mewar's warriors, the Chundavats and Shaktavats, about who should be in the vanguard (first line) of battle. Both sides wanted the honor of being the first to sacrifice themselves in war. To resolve the dispute, Maharana Amar Singh Ji declared that whoever first entered the fort would earn the right to lead. Both sides prepared for battle.
Ballu Singh Shaktawat led his group to the main gate of the fort, while Jait Singh Chundawat led his men to scale the walls. As Ballu Ji attempted to break the gate using an elephant, he sacrificed himself by standing on sharp spikes to prevent the elephant from retreating. His heroic act broke the fort’s doors, and the Shaktavats stormed in. At the same time, Jait Singh Chundawat, despite being fatally shot, ordered his comrades to sever his head and throw it into the fort to claim victory for the Chundavats.
In the end, both groups entered the fort, slaughtered the Mughal forces, and reclaimed Utala. The Chundavats upheld their traditional right to lead, but the heroism of both Ballu Singh Shaktawat and Jait Singh Chundawat was undeniable. Maharana Amar Singh Ji honored the sacrifices made, acknowledging that their valor would inspire future generations.
Whaaat??? I didn't know that crown medal was a Roman thing.
We use them here in Malta for such great forts of history like Mdina, Valletta, Birgu etc 😮
Loved this video on the significance of being the first on the wall in ancient sieges! The corona muralis, or mural crown, was indeed a coveted award in ancient Rome.
What struck me was how this award wasn't just about personal glory but also had significant social and political implications. Receiving the corona muralis could elevate not just the individual but their entire family's status.
The Roman emphasis on military virtue (virtus) is fascinating. It's remarkable how closely tied military success was to political power and social standing.
I'd like to add that this culture of valorizing military achievements wasn't unique to Rome. In ancient Greece, for example, the concept of "aristeia" recognized exceptional bravery in battle.
Also, the evolution of siege warfare tactics is interesting. As you mentioned, coordinated assaults replaced individual heroic feats in the early modern period.
One minor correction: the Roman historian mentioned is likely Livy (Titus Livius), not Liby.
Motivation is needed to encourage your soldiers to fight for you and not run when the first thing to hit the fan happens.
Rome itself had many incentives for their military:
•Roman citizenship if you fought in the auxiliary
•you was granted land to settle once your military tenure was up
•many cases you could get spoils of loot sacking cities
•you got some of the best military training in the world at the time being part of the Roman war machine which made you very valuable in many ways, first Rome offered incentives to retired legionnaires to be “volunteer soldiers” and being granted land had bonuses for Rome itself as you had citizens on the frontier capable of defending themselves from foreign invaders because of their previous military experience. It was a bonus for both sides in the end that Rome rewarded their soldiers so generously.
• then there’s the most obvious reason, social status. If you lived a full tenure, odds are you worked your way up the ranks and secured a lot of family wealth and prestige to carry on multiple generations. Military service was a must for any politician with any serious ambitions.
So it’s not surprising to me that Rome would have incentives for certain military tasks like climbing walls and such. Take care of your soldiers, and there’s a lot they’ll do for you
That’s an easy question to answer. If the attackers are trained and have been with each other for long enough one days it for your buddies. It’s so at odds with survival but a warrior would themselves rather die than their battle buddies. Those buddies are your friends and have become closer than family. Only another warrior would understand what you’ve been thru.
I served over 40 years ago and talk to my buddies often. We go 20 years without seeing each other but when together again it was like no time passed at all. Except we don’t move as quickly anymore.
Exactly! The guy failed to see that! In the heat of battle no one is looking for the prizes, but rather to ensure his brothers in arms are safe.
You could all ensure each other's safety by not fighting in the first place
thats not really comparable.
today we dont exactly have the concept of a wholesale "retreat" anymore. only "tactical retreat".
back then you could have thousands of soldiers fleeing the battlefield, and unless they all grew up in the same village i dont see why they would feel connected to each other.
@@YOTSUBA_desu worked out quite well for France in 1939, wasn't it?
As Roman soldier from the first Punic war.
I can confirm this is what happened 🤕💀
Which one was actual first?
@@eljanrimsa5843??
@@TahaAlhimyary The legionary in the North or the marine in the South?
Thank you for your service.
@@eljanrimsa5843 I thought it was safer to me serving in the north until I heard so noises from the Alps
4:26 where does that shield design come from? Why do i keep seeing it used in pop culture depiction of late roman era barbarians?
Idk, could be AI?
I always figured that the first guy to get over the wall was the first dead guy to get over the wall. It never looked promising, no matter the status. Thanks for enlightening us, because I never would have guessed that it was an enviable position!
Did not know about this,so I'm happy I watched this video!!Good stuff!
Mom said it's my turn to use the siege ladder. 😅
I am Sargent in Brasilian army, here we have in our formation a man called "ponta" "ponta de lança" (edge, or spear edge) this guy is the first in formation and also go in a centain distant (in some cases) clearing e making the first contact with enemy, his generaly a guy who better knows the territory, and is a pride and honor be that guy
you are no sargent lil bro
@@petrovskatanadenica5720you are nothing
Who cares i real What i What in this Times
Foda!
Thank you. This is one of the main questions that has been stuck in my head after listening to all of Joe Abercrombie's novels. There's a character that has 5 blue star tattoos on his hands for being first up the wall 5x, and I always wondered how accurate that was.
Bull Broad🫶
I think it's 4 tattoos but still. Bull Broad needed no social status as a reward, the privilege to have dibs on mauling the enemy was enough
what a great idea to make a video, it also make me curious many times. I apreciate your hard work, we need more people like you in this country.
Thank you for making this video. It made me want to learn more about history!
“All in all, you’re just, another brick in the wall” ~ Sun Tzu
they had rock music back then in china?!
Xun tzu@@giovannicorso7583
@@giovannicorso7583 Sun Tzu invented it
He never said that…
The writer of this episode played A Legionary's Life for sure
A great game, once you passed upon the graphics.
Me needing to study for Med school exams, but firstly I need to know the answer to this
2 million views in less than 10 days. Absolute banger of a video SRH😮
Thank you for the video! Very insightful!
A superb video, as always. A true pleasure to watch, as always. Thank you.
Fornlorn hopes would still receive promotions and monetary rewards for their actions in the early modern period (one of the few common ways to get past the entrenched seniority system of promotion, it probably helped that such an event would cull officers considerably and leave many vacancies for the survivors).
Into the 20th century elite units would usually be the ones sent in in the first place, like the shock battalions of the Russian civil war, cities remained fortified centres that were hard for units like cavalry to take alone, General Wrangel pioneered the use of combined arms to take them, and was successful as they was a reason the red army had serious issues on open ground or without a concentration of force, the main impediment was the defences of the city, once broken through the garrison usually showed the limitations of armed workers militias and poorly motivated conscripts. But without excellent command and control the defences typically narrowed the difference and made the cities bastions in a sea of White territory.
5:35 I recognise that legionare in the middle anywhere: the one screaming at Crassus for his "brilliant" idea to fight the parthians on the open plain
I had this question for over a month. Great video
I love this so much! It is obvious but hard to believe, and having the proof on hand makes it crazy! This is real! Imagine it was us!!!
wonderful explaination, I wish to see more ancient warfare content on your channel
0:11 did the Gauls even have fortifications with brick walls?
Yes. The town of Alesia that Caesar besieged had a stone wall.
Stone walls are not brickwalls.
Yeah@@linming5610
The Gauls were significantly more advanced as they are often portrayed to be. Not as sophisticated as the heart of Rome, but they had well fortified settlements, stone architecture, proper logistics systems and road networks, trade spanning across western Europe, advanced metallurgy and even their own sewerage and waterworks systems in larger settlements.
@@luka188Yes. Not brick though. They used a technique called after them today. Murus gallicus was a Gallic fortification made from a timber frame filled with earth and stones. It was strong and resistant to attacks and fire.
Climb the wall first they said. . . it would be a fun time they said. . .
They were not lying. It will be a fun time. If you survive.
Living the dream
Excellent video, and
thank you for the history lesson.
Subscribed.
Competing to be the first on the wall, wow. People love social competition through the bone and out the other side.
0:42 wow, this is straight into the period near the beginning of the first punic war. Thank you for the book recommendations in the description btw.
4:20 this is a lot of artwork, man. I don't know if this is image diffusion, or a very dedicated set of artists, but either way, the quality and specificity at this quantity is extremely impressive. The art reminds me a lot of MenasLG, and also the guy who's making art for Lindybeige's unreleased comic.
Caesar was one of the soldiers who choose to repeatedly be on the very front lines of the battle field. It’s theorized that that’s how he got epilepsy. From being struck on the head. He lived through countless battles as a front line soldier and made it to the highest possible rank. He was a true warrior before he was a tyrant
I was always under the impression that it was something you got volun-told to do at least for most. "Someone's going to have to be in the vanguard. Who wants to go? .....Okay, Lucius, Quintus, Castor, you just volunteered."
Pleb.
Broadly speaking, volunteers are going to be more effective at tasks than conscripts. People operate on incentives, and while you can create negative incentives worse than "near certain death", such incentives tend to have the knock-on effect of incentivizing people to just stay the hell away from your military. Bit of carrot goes a long way.
Roman soldiers were badass one of the reasons their empire lasted for hundreds of years
the greatest generation
Sextus didgitus is a dope name fr fr
Well, frankly, roman soldiers being too badass is arguibly the reason the empire collapsed
Thousands in fact, since the Eastern Roman empire lasted so long.
@@ColasTeamThey fought the wrong army's because of all the Backstabbing.
Very entertaining and informative video. Thank you!
Being stayed at the bottom and waiting to be killed from the arrow is cool, but the opportunity and the manly urge to clean all the enemies at the wall all by yourself is just too good to be missed😂
This is an interesting subject i had never thought of.
There is actually a modern comparison that could have been made here that is more realistic than the 'Global Fame'. You could look at Eisenhower and how he managed to turn his military experience guiding Allied forces to victory, and winning accolades along the way, into political power.
There have been multiple US Medal of Honor recipients that went on to have political careers using the fame from their awards.
but they already were part of the nobility class, a medal of honor on some random black guy would give him the boot from prime begging spots lol,
Yeah I instantly thought about Eisenhower when he brought up CMH recipients even though Eisenhower never got it, probably the closest comparison would be Ulysses s Grant, and no Grant never got the CMH but he was made general of the armies, a rank held only by Washington and later Pershing, no one else has ever held that rank, he later went on to be president and was buried in a Roman like mausoleum, I guess that made him America's version of restore of the world .
@@rdf4315
Grant was already part of the military nobility.
@@OfficeMusic yeah after he defeated Lee and the Confederacy but not before .
I appreciate the effort put into the graphics used
I was expecting this to be kinda weirdly gratuitous to the Roman Empire but this was a lot better. Great video!
Thanks for captioning this video! Fascinating. One question - the honor went to the man who made it to the top of the wall first and survived? Or it had to be the absolutely first man who made it to the top and if he was to die, there's no next person to give the honor to?
If so, I'm sure it's per assault effort? Meaning after regrouping and assaulting the wall again, someone else has a chance at the honor. Otherwise what would motivate them?
1:46 Literally me
0:47 - "New Carthage"? The Phoenicians named a city, the "New-New-City"? 😆
wanna talk about Torpenhow Hill the hill-hill-hill hill?
Imperialism is hilarious even in gross antiquity.
Please we need second video for the Assyrian warfare
Your channel is perfect
Great video and great graphics !!
Actually super interesting, thanks !