The men pretending to supporting feminist women in this comment section and trying to gaslight women and girls watching this video must outnumber women 5 to 1 Hints include using sexiest words like terf and cis alongside supportive sounding patter is them trying to normalize the words they use to silence women. Controlling language is controlling thought. And whoever controls the language has already won. It's a core tool of the male chauvinist society, used since human civilization began to oppress women. And remember, patriarchy works by making women perform their own oppression. Never use their language.
TERF is an acronym that feminist groups created. It's not a slur, it's just an acronym the "new feminists" came up with to not have to waste time on the "old feminists".
How is "cis" a sexist word? It applies to both men and women. Like, I'd genuinely like to know why you think that, merely describing someone as being of the same gender as they were assigned at birth and not having undergone transition/sexual reassignment/surgery doesn't sound insulting to me.
There’s this new bloke Dylan running about on Instagram calling himself a trans girl. Some of his most recent posts are disturbing. He posted a video of him opening up a tampon and sticking it in a glass of water, he pretended to have a girls sleepover with himself, and he went and interviewed another man about what girlhood means to him.
@@oddbobproductions781 I saw him on Tiktok… he’s creepy as hell and has a lot of rabid supporters. I can’t believe people would support a grown man that obviously fetishizes underage girls 🤢
Nothing seems to frighten the world as much as the thought of women supporting women, women putting women first, woman-only spaces---they'll do *anything* to stop it.
Well, women's opression is kinda like fossil fuels, y'know... we know it's bad, but we cannot possibly stop profiting from it, else the whole economy collapses. And when I say "cannot possibly" I'm refering to the people that lack the capacity for any exercise in imagination than implyies loosing privileges in favor of building resilience.
And I identify as the Queen of the Universe. And if you don't bow to me, obey my every whim, and use my preferred pronoun of "Your Majesty"; you are being transphobic and inflicting LITERAL VIOLENCE against me!!!!
I used to like those 'attack-helicopter' memes as well, but the conversation on trans-rights has moved on since 2016. Gender is a social construct. Attack-helicopters are not. This is why the meme about 'identifying as an attack helicopter' is not an accurate comparison to the experience of being trans. Feel free to disagree with me, but the science is settled on this point.
Don't take the bait of this new guy. You'll waste your time. If there's anything I missed in his latest original comment save some time and hop in there.
@Olga Knyaginya 'Applies on the basis of sex' - interesting. Tell me, how many times do you think Buck Angel's been catcalled? 'Bad actors and pervs' - so do you have evidence for that, or .... ?
Thank you for speaking on women rights, and how much we want that protected!! Women are born Female, Men are born Male. Nothing transphobic about reality ❤️❤️
Very true and I agree. I kind of got a bit peeved seeing a trans woman I know being wished a Happy Woman's History month. I am sorry but women actually fought for that and it sounds degrading to those women who fought their rights.
@@modelingprincess21 the world is supposed to accept them. You are saying that forcing someone to say she than he will cause them suicide? Get your head together.
Critical issue difference between stereotypical feminine and female. Trans is sadly reinforcing a social construct of how to be a woman. Such a retrograde step.... sigh.
Its weird being Trans myself and agreeing with TERF issues. I hate living in the echo chamber of feminism. Biological Female only spaces are important. Having another space for women that includes Trans women where everybody can just be together should be separate. Being biologically female is its own unique experience due to a LOT of factors.
Not trans, but Im an inmigrant and a racial minority. I also hate living in an anti-racism echo chamber and watching anti-racist people talking on my name, and being so emotive when someone disagrees with them. They are polarizing people and alienating everybody from discuss racism in the society. It's sad, but SJWs are harming more than helping people. I'm totally convinced that it's everything about heir egos and bragging about how pure are their hearts and their ideals, instead of how well constructed are their ideas.
Magdalen, you are an absolute angel and your videos never cease to impress me. I hope nothing will ever make you stop doing what you do because you are my inspiration.
I am a lesbian from Russia and I love you! Thank you for everything you say. Your words are the best cure for the pain I feel when I'm called TERF or trying to make me and my partner think we're heterosexual just because my partner is close to transitioning because of sexism and lesbophobia in Russia. Many thanks from both of us!! Your videos help to cope with the huge gaslighting coming from the TRANS community😭♥️
I enjoy your videos because I was starting to buy into the anti-feminist pro-trans thing, but it always felt wrong as a woman. I mean, I still don't consider myself a feminist but the more I hear men talk about how they are woman it just makes me so upset.
Straight women need to be included in rational feminism more. I don't like the term radical because what many radical feminists talk about is actually not radical in any way shape or form.
@@cloroxbleach566 Straight women ARE included in radical feminism. Just because radical feminists are one of the only groups that doesn't marginalize lesbians doesn't mean that straight women are ignored.
"give us a little laugh" she says at 11:30. The self pressure for women to entertain the male remains strong with Erold. its all that: "smile for me baby" women heard every freaking day from random men. when you are threatened with violence for not being compliant and hospitable you learn quick and it becomes second nature to pressure yourself to "brighten someone's day"...
Harv when you are born female and spend your life socialized as a female, the shit forced on you doesnt go away easy. thats the point. Erold is trying to appear like a man, but is still trying to entertainand apologizing for not doing it enough, just like the female she was born and raised as.
This joke killed me because I thought she was gonna say "dehumanizing us" but the literal "denying biology" was such a clever change up. 😂 Damn.. we need her more than ever now..
It's sad that women, perhaps due to our socialization, are willing to even think about sleeping with someone we aren't attracted to. You don't see straight men struggling with whether or not they will sleep with a male-to-female; generally it's a hard pass.
I feel like she doesn't get a single point we've made as a group, like radfems support detransitioned women who discuss their struggles openly. and we want to protect women from sexual violence...like how is that heartless??
The white supremacists believe they're doing the same thing with racial purity... You should check out Stormfront... You share a lot of the same ideals.
Wayne whites are an oppressive class. males are an oppressive class, you can stop your shitty comparisons because the women present will be calling them out. Or are you one of those masochistic males who try to start fights with women so they can beat off to the loss?
@SkepticalChar Delusional Morons are Delusional Morons, and guess what you are. You wouldn't know oppression if it bit your face off, neither would I - the difference is I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm not trying to "dine out" on my victimhood - I think it might be because I have something else to offer and thus I understood your problem.
@SkepticalChar I'm not buying it - because I'm working class, currently unemployed and the ONLY people I've ever encountered who support the "Social Just-Us" narrative - have been privileged with wealth. Because when you're working class you understand that neither men nor women are inherently privileged - Money is the only privilege and when you're working class the only thing you can be sure of is: "You have fuck all money or power, this doesn't change according to your genitals or skin colour. Also every immigrant I've ever met and I worked with a factory full of them, has been opposed to "Social Just-Us". Most of my co-workers, in that factory, supported Brexit. Also Bread soaked in Water has more skeptic ability than you.
Oooh Magdalen do I have a treat for you. In case you haven't already seen it, Riley J. Dennis uploaded a new video in which he responds to some of the things you said in your videos about him (he doesn't mention you, but it's obvious). He now calls sexual orientation "gential preference." A gift that keeps on giving.
Plus: You're only allowed to not like dicks if you were raped in the past. If you weren't, it's "cissexist" to not be attracted to penises. If you were, "take your time to heal"... and once you're feeling better I guess you have to like them, too.
Magdalen, congrats on your video. I admire you a lot, always watch your videos and recommend them to my friends. Yours is a very important job, congratulations again!
You really have no idea what you're talking about, Ernold. Magdalen, I want to thank you for making these videos. They have great value for me. I hope you continue doing many more, that you always stay strong and well. Regards!
'What you're saying is causing 'abuse', apologize.' They want to control what you can and can't say. Quite familiar with these sorts of people. And an apology won't be enough. Just telling you that's probably all that would come of a conversation.
I want to thank you miss berns for fighting for the rights of lesbians and gays. You are a resonable feminist and i think more people should give you the time of day and listen to your reasoning. Thanks again for being reasonable in your arguments, even if i dont agree on all your points i think your reasons are valuble for feminists, and others to listen too.
I think this is Magdalen’s only video where she responded to a TIF. I wish she was still here to respond to the BS from the ilk of Jammidodger, Noahfince, and others in this new generation of TRAs.
Also, Ash Hardell!! (NB identifying female, who got a double mastectomy, because NB. And also, apparently convinced her lesbian partner to ALSO identify as NB, and get her breasts chopped off! Sad as sh*t, indeed.) Who I used to be a fan of, in some weird, alternate, surreal Twilight Zone reality, that either happened only in my mind, or happened half an eternity ago, when I was still a TRA. (May just have had a few glasses of wine, over here. :P) Now leaving random comments on some of the worst Ash Hardell videos, to try to save some of her young, vulnerable, SUPER impressionable, trans identifying female fans! Which.. not sure it will do ANYTHING, whatsoever. But I feel pretty good about at least trying, regardless. (PS: Magdalen's response to her was EPIC, btw.
@@InterstellarDreams Magdalen's video on Ash was indeed epic and it was absolutely pathetic how Ash decided to respond to her video AFTER the woman had died and could not respond back to her ridiculous accusations.
Isn't he contradicting himself when he says that giving birth is the most female experience..... lol when it's trans men he is showing in his video? O_o
Please show any young women you know, Magdalen's videos...it's important they don't forget what it means to be a woman and hand over their rights and common sense to these deranged dreamers. It's not based in reality, just play acting.
Excellent video! As a male Marxist who immigrated to the UK 2 years ago from Eastern Europe and someone who always supported the true women's right movement (2nd wave Feminism) I've sadly witnessed the same degradation of values within a UK revolutionary party I joined as in the contemporary feminist movement. At last year''s national congress for the UK the party has taken a hard line in denouncing "TERFs" and supporting "Non-binarism", including comrades who published great works and I looked up to a priori! I have no problem with trans-men or women transitioning and living any way they want, and I will always defend them against discrimination from right wingers, but pretending biological sex does not exist and replacing facts with "feelings" is something completely different. A man is a man and a woman is a woman based on the factual nature of biological sex, (not on what one "feels") as you so well articulated in this video, and I'd argue that "non-binarism" is the greatest blow to the womens' rights movement this century as it reinforces the idea of gender roles (e.g to be female means to act "feminine" and to be male to act "masculine" and if you're anywhere in-between you're a "different gender" - NO! You're female or male based on your genitalia, and if you act in a way that does not fit the cultural stereotypes associated with your gender it just means you don't fucking confirm to the social construct of gender roles!) Marxism and feminism both trace their lineage in the proud tradition of standing up againt the very oppressive system of patriarchal capitalism, but also in the scientific method and in advocating for truth alongside the betterment of mankind, and it really saddens me to see how many of my comrades and how many feminists have fallen for the pseudoscientific drivel of "non-binarism"! (and its poisonous attitudes towards those it labels "TERFs") You've earned yourself a subscriber, and I do hope that more people here your voice of reason! The system must be challanged before the continued existence of human civilization is challenged by it, (well, it already kinda is given how all peer-reviewed research agrees that climate change will be irreversible in less than 2 decades...) and for that we need the old left that actually challenged the system to come back! All of my best regards to radical feminists still fighting patriarchal oppression, as well as hope that we will regain our movements and together make revolution happen! P.S: Reposted this comment from another great video by Magdalen so that as many feminists as possible would see it. Both feminist and Marxist movements nowadays have been largely taken over by people pushing a pseudo-scientific violence-against-women-inciting narrative that denounces real feminists as "TERFs", so I think that regardless of your views of Marxism we would both stand to gain from working together and reclaiming our movemets. All the best to you all again, as well as respect for you taking on all of this abuse and threats of violence from transgender "women"!
It's insane how masculine sounding Ernold is, I was really confused for a while why Mag was calling them "her". And as always the scenes with the aggressive males screaming at women are horrible and blood boiling.
I cannot get my head around what Ernold is trying to say. Just stringing phrases together that they heard, without understanding the complexity and history is as practical as someone jumping into an arguement mid stream then asking what it was about after it is over.
I love you Magdaline! You are so amazingly pacient, intellegent and rational and I really appreciate your opinion. Thank you for making videos ❤ blesses
Fuck. For a year i was watching your videos in English with a vocabulary and google , and now... I discovered that you made subtitles in RUSSIAN. Now im watching this again and thinking : oh, i translated it correctly!"and then hating myself))) sorry for so many words, what i wanted to say is thank you
As I have posted on another of your videos, I’m a liberal gay male who jumped into this debate without adequate thinking. And, without excusing my pretty bad behaviour said in anger, I certainly paid the price for it on Twitter. It’s odd, though. I have met far more trans-people than I have trans-activists; people who just want to get on with their lives with no desire in getting involved in any wider debate. As a man who had ‘GAY’ stamped on his forehead from the beginning of his life, coming of age just as AIDS birthed the new, ferocious homophobia, I didn’t have a pleasant adolescence. In fact, it pretty much fucked up my twenties and I wallowed in my own victimisation and self-pity until I pulled myself together just before I entered my thirties. I don’t want anybody to suffer that, I believe transgender people, like anybody, are entitled to live their lives without prejudice and I HAVE seen a lot of hate towards them from radical feminists. That made me pretty angry. However, what also made me angry was friends and acquaintances telling me that I was betraying the ‘cause’ for liking and commenting on your videos. I got pretty angry when I was shot-down, during a trans-bathroom debate, for pointing out something you said on one of your videos - ‘Women fought hard for female-only spaces’. They DID. I got pretty angry when I was called a traitor for merely stating that reassignment surgery being performed on children was wrong. A decision like that simply can’t be made by a child. If somebody wants to transition over the age of eighteen that’s fine with me, go for it. But for Christ’s sake, I would have been sent off for surgery at the age of five if I had had nutcase parents like those on another of your videos. And I’m NOT transgender, I’m an effeminate man. To be honest, I’m still trying to process all of this before I feel I can comment further; as I’ve learned more, my once-firm stance on the trans issue is now extremely wobbly. I do think that the trans issue is currently encompassing all feminist debate. Please don’t attack me for this, people. Engage, reply, debate but don’t go on the offensive. I’ve not seen any posts about the uncomfortable rise in domestic violence and battering. And posts about the Chad Evans date-rape trial and the disturbing intentions of the Trump administration on abortion rights are outnumbered by posts on the trans issue by about a thousand to one. Trans-men are abusers, yes. But how many of them when compared to straight guys? Is it okay to state that equally essential issues are seemingly being swept under the table right now in favour of the trans issue? Anyway, despite our often differing stance, I do love your videos. Please keep them coming.
Leighton Mueller alot of radfems are lesbians, and as such have been founders of the LGB movement and fought to get T in the umbrella. we remember when most trans folk were gay boys who because of homophobia hung out with females and felt more comfortable with "feminine" expression. we remember how they loved the straight boys and hoped emulating more "feminine" things would get them the boy they liked. we remember how though they played with gender, they KNEW they weren't REALLY women and as such didnt FORCE themselves into womens space and instead were respectful and grateful when given access because we trusted them. But thats not the trans movement today. Queer culture went mainstream, attracted a TON of straights who wanted to seem alternative and cool by pretending to be bi. we seen a TON of men with sissification fetishes invade lesbian territory and demand womwn facilitate their sexual proclivities The trans movement of today has gone so fucking insane it tells the drag community which birthed them that they are bigot. they LIE about history and trans people at stone wall to justify their hijacking of the movement. These arent gay boys struggling with homophobia, these are primarily angsty teens looking for hip trends and grown wealthy men with cross dressing fetishes. These people NEED to be told off.
SkepticalChar Absolutely, I agree. Like I said, the more I learn the more my position is changing. I know a lot of radical feminists are lesbians; I know a lot of them. The reason I like Magdalen's videos is because I don't see any hate. Just logic, reason and cogency. It's also because of her delivery - they are fun to watch, as well as highly informative. And I cannot fault her research, it's impeccable. But I have seen hate from other radical feminists towards trans-people. Real hate. And that is something I will fight.
Leighton Mueller Trans woman here. Just wanted to thank you for speaking so respectfully. I completely agree with you that there's a lot that's wrong with trans politics nowadays, and I find it especially disturbing to watch the voices of cis women get silenced over and over again. At the same time, there are so many of us trans people (I would say the majority of us) who want nothing to do with the movement, and just want to be left alone as we live our lives. I make a conscious effort to read about and recognize the concerns of radfems, because these are real. Of course I was socialized as male, and of course I have a history of male privilege - these are realities I think about and do my best to own up to. The only times I ever use women's only spaces are times when I desperately have to pee and I can't find a unisex washroom - otherwise I stay out of women's spaces completely. I know that although reproductive issues don't affect me, human rights in this area should be fully recognized and addressed as issues pertaining distinctly to people with female biology (including trans men). I'm not even remotely interested in women sexually, but I do think trans women should be extremely mindful of women's sexual boundaries and should respect these at all costs. It's horrific that rape culture is perpetuated in ideas like the 'cotton ceiling.' Having said all of that, I don't think the logical outcome of this discussion should be to misgender trans people, to put all of us down, or even to incite violence against us. I'll never forget when I was at a movie theatre with my friends early in my transition, and a lesbian couple behind me started throwing popcorn at me and laughing. What bothered me most about this incident was not that I was mocked (not an act violence), but the fact that this couple outed me to a whole movie theatre after they threw food at me for a while and said things like 'you still look like a dude, buddy.' Eventually this sort of behaviour caught the attention of a group of straight men who were ignoring me up until this point, and I was assaulted by this group of straight guys that night after the movie was over. I spent months recovering physically from the attack, as I had multiple fractures - to be honest, I still live with this trauma and I'll never fully be myself again. This sort of behaviour really doesn't do anyone any good, and I would argue that it discourages gender non-conformity if anything. ***As a side note: 'misgendering' is sometimes considered violence by trans people exactly because this sort of interaction invites incidents like the one I just described.*** I would love for radfems and trans women to actually sit together and have a dialogue on identifying what little common ground there might be between the two movements. It's not easy, and I'm sure each side will have feelings about the other, but I think this sort of work is necessary. Even though I am exclusively male-attracted, I have lots of love for my lesbian sisters and I truly want lesbian radfems who feel erased by the trans movement to have a voice. I just don't think my suffering and the suffering of other trans woman should be necessary as a precursor to the greater political strength/unity of radfems and radfem-aligned women.
great video, thanks to Anastasia for russian subtitles, and also Magdalen really looks like a russian singer Zemfira especially with this haircut, idk :D
I'm gonna come out as trans and get me one of them juicy, woman-only small-business loans. Maybe they'll add a few affirmative action points to my entance exam scores at uni next fall, as well. Man, I could get used to this!
At the very least though, Blaire White is realistic about herself. She has said time against that she knows she's a male and will die as one but there's no denying that socially, she pretty much is a young woman. I know saying that is very controversial but I give special nod to Blaire because she doesn't say things like "Biology is a social construct" or any other asinine variation of that.
Don't know who this person is, but I do know that when I was at uni, almost 20 years ago, we were taught about the ongoing debate regarding the issues surrounding spaces for what was then called "women born women" (I guess advocates for maintaining those spaces are now called "terfs") and the way that *various* streams of feminism view the issue. I mentioned it to an older trans friend, and she was surprised it was still being talked about, and that was years ago. I think these younglings are not being taught shit at universities anymore. It's frankly depressing.
We've all tried debating reasonably with these people, but always (unless you've been incredibly more lucky than I) with the same result. It's like pissing into the wind. They wanna call us "TERF". OK, then, wear you TERF, in my case TEGM I guess, badge with pride. It's a shame to all of us that we've sunk to name-calling rather than argument, and that's kind of a win for them. Keep trying, my darling, on behalf of us all.
This was GREAT! Yeah, anti-feminists don't always do their research before making response videos. It does get pathetic. And Ernold was just engaging in an emotional diatribe.
"whatever you socially identify as is what you are" OK I identify as Bill Gates on a weekend so I need access to his life asap and during the week I identify as a surgeon so give me my scrubs and I'll do your trans op!
At 4:14 when he can't even look straight at the camera when he says "nobody's denying biology here." Even he doesn't belive the bullshit coming out of his mouth.
Magdalen, thank you for making me realise that i will never be a woman, since watching your videos i realise `i`m no longer confused about my gender, i fucking hate labels and i never want to be pigeon holed. I always feel more comfortable in my female clothes, I live and work in my female clothes, i have some amazing gay and lesbian friends in my home town of Manchester (UK) both at work and socially. activists of any denomination can be dangerous, it`s finding the middle ground that is important, having said that i suppose we would not have such wonderful lively debates if the middle ground was all that was on offer. Live and let live that`s the way I live my life.
"Read some books"
We all should. That's a constant.
Lydia M-J let's make reading lists... I really want to read game of thrones
The men pretending to supporting feminist women in this comment section and trying to gaslight women and girls watching this video must outnumber women 5 to 1 Hints include using sexiest words like terf and cis alongside supportive sounding patter is them trying to normalize the words they use to silence women. Controlling language is controlling thought. And whoever controls the language has already won. It's a core tool of the male chauvinist society, used since human civilization began to oppress women. And remember, patriarchy works by making women perform their own oppression. Never use their language.
TERF is an acronym that feminist groups created.
It's not a slur, it's just an acronym the "new feminists" came up with to not have to waste time on the "old feminists".
How is "cis" a sexist word? It applies to both men and women. Like, I'd genuinely like to know why you think that, merely describing someone as being of the same gender as they were assigned at birth and not having undergone transition/sexual reassignment/surgery doesn't sound insulting to me.
10:51 "What am I saying? They don't have hearts."
-"There you go again mate, denying biology."
Oh my god, that was hilarious.
"I got my tampons and my red bull and I'm so excited to just... stick this in me, and _feel it_ you know?" --*said no woman ever*
Right that clip really....sent me....wtf
I just love getting my period and having to stick a tampon up there. Also have to make sure to change or be at risk of Toxic Shock Syndrome.
What a creep. Probably gets his rocks off that way too 🤢
There’s this new bloke Dylan running about on Instagram calling himself a trans girl. Some of his most recent posts are disturbing. He posted a video of him opening up a tampon and sticking it in a glass of water, he pretended to have a girls sleepover with himself, and he went and interviewed another man about what girlhood means to him.
@@oddbobproductions781 I saw him on Tiktok… he’s creepy as hell and has a lot of rabid supporters. I can’t believe people would support a grown man that obviously fetishizes underage girls 🤢
Nothing seems to frighten the world as much as the thought of women supporting women, women putting women first, woman-only spaces---they'll do *anything* to stop it.
Well, women's opression is kinda like fossil fuels, y'know... we know it's bad, but we cannot possibly stop profiting from it, else the whole economy collapses.
And when I say "cannot possibly" I'm refering to the people that lack the capacity for any exercise in imagination than implyies loosing privileges in favor of building resilience.
Magdalen, the finest deadpan comedian ever. A brilliant mind. I'm jealous.
"What you socially identify as is what you are'' Well I Identify as the queen of England. Now where's my crown, my throne and my money?
IF you want this to really stop. Identify as the pope of the catholic church.
And I identify as the Queen of the Universe. And if you don't bow to me, obey my every whim, and use my preferred pronoun of "Your Majesty"; you are being transphobic and inflicting LITERAL VIOLENCE against me!!!!
I used to like those 'attack-helicopter' memes as well, but the conversation on trans-rights has moved on since 2016.
Gender is a social construct. Attack-helicopters are not. This is why the meme about 'identifying as an attack helicopter' is not an accurate comparison to the experience of being trans.
Feel free to disagree with me, but the science is settled on this point.
Don't take the bait of this new guy. You'll waste your time. If there's anything I missed in his latest original comment save some time and hop in there.
@Olga Knyaginya 'Applies on the basis of sex' - interesting. Tell me, how many times do you think Buck Angel's been catcalled?
'Bad actors and pervs' - so do you have evidence for that, or .... ?
Thank you for speaking on women rights, and how much we want that protected!! Women are born Female, Men are born Male. Nothing transphobic about reality ❤️❤️
OfficiallyAngelique, i agree
Very true and I agree. I kind of got a bit peeved seeing a trans woman I know being wished a Happy Woman's History month. I am sorry but women actually fought for that and it sounds degrading to those women who fought their rights.
Watch your children commit suicide when they notice the world doesn't accept them.
@@Kiz-0 The world isn't suppose to accept you, everyone has issues with the world. Forcing people to accept you will cause suicidal tendencies..
@@modelingprincess21 the world is supposed to accept them. You are saying that forcing someone to say she than he will cause them suicide? Get your head together.
I don't understand how women seeing Lavern Cox proclaim womanhood by simply flicking her hair doesn't make your blood boil.
As an aa female it makes my blood boil he doesn't even sound like a woman he sounds like a gay man
Whatever2018 it does make our blood boil, believe me.
Sounds like every drag queen I've ever met.
*his hair
and the fact that she's using sojourner truths "aint i a woman" ://// let's not take things about black women and make them about males
It's so cringy seeing a man who thinks he is a biological female.
Iulia Ionela Petcu well said! But who’s this Arnauld guy from the video? Never heard of him
@ms honey honey, woman means adult human female. Men can't be adult human females.
@@adda25he's actually a female
@@adda25 it's a women but she took t and looks like us men because of it.
Critical issue difference between stereotypical feminine and female. Trans is sadly reinforcing a social construct of how to be a woman. Such a retrograde step.... sigh.
We’re being reduced, by men, to how feminine we are/appear.
Yes
RIP Magdalen, you were too based for this world. Your memory lives on.
Love her mannerisms and the way she pronounce her words 👌
Its weird being Trans myself and agreeing with TERF issues. I hate living in the echo chamber of feminism. Biological Female only spaces are important. Having another space for women that includes Trans women where everybody can just be together should be separate. Being biologically female is its own unique experience due to a LOT of factors.
They're not "terfs" issues. They're basic humans rights issues that we all should be concerned about.
Not trans, but Im an inmigrant and a racial minority.
I also hate living in an anti-racism echo chamber and watching anti-racist people talking on my name, and being so emotive when someone disagrees with them. They are polarizing people and alienating everybody from discuss racism in the society. It's sad, but SJWs are harming more than helping people. I'm totally convinced that it's everything about heir egos and bragging about how pure are their hearts and their ideals, instead of how well constructed are their ideas.
Please tell your people!
They’re fine
Magdalen, you are an absolute angel and your videos never cease to impress me. I hope nothing will ever make you stop doing what you do because you are my inspiration.
May Magdalen's memory be eternal. She was brilliant.
I am a lesbian from Russia and I love you! Thank you for everything you say. Your words are the best cure for the pain I feel when I'm called TERF or trying to make me and my partner think we're heterosexual just because my partner is close to transitioning because of sexism and lesbophobia in Russia. Many thanks from both of us!! Your videos help to cope with the huge gaslighting coming from the TRANS community😭♥️
как у вас всё сложилось, спустя 5 лет?
@@_anlystize_9189 мы вместе и просто послали нахер всех лесбофобов, особенно из трансятников
@@heartstorm6822 очень рада это слышать!💕
4:36 - Said NO biological woman EVER about a tampon .
I enjoy your videos because I was starting to buy into the anti-feminist pro-trans thing, but it always felt wrong as a woman. I mean, I still don't consider myself a feminist but the more I hear men talk about how they are woman it just makes me so upset.
Straight women need to be included in rational feminism more. I don't like the term radical because what many radical feminists talk about is actually not radical in any way shape or form.
Update?
@@cloroxbleach566 Straight women ARE included in radical feminism. Just because radical feminists are one of the only groups that doesn't marginalize lesbians doesn't mean that straight women are ignored.
"give us a little laugh" she says at 11:30. The self pressure for women to entertain the male remains strong with Erold. its all that: "smile for me baby" women heard every freaking day from random men. when you are threatened with violence for not being compliant and hospitable you learn quick and it becomes second nature to pressure yourself to "brighten someone's day"...
Harv when you are born female and spend your life socialized as a female, the shit forced on you doesnt go away easy. thats the point. Erold is trying to appear like a man, but is still trying to entertainand apologizing for not doing it enough, just like the female she was born and raised as.
Exactly what I thought 🤷🏻♀️🙄
'They don't have hearts!' - Magdalen: 'There you go again, mate. Denying biology.'
This joke killed me because I thought she was gonna say "dehumanizing us" but the literal "denying biology" was such a clever change up. 😂 Damn.. we need her more than ever now..
It's sad that women, perhaps due to our socialization, are willing to even think about sleeping with someone we aren't attracted to. You don't see straight men struggling with whether or not they will sleep with a male-to-female; generally it's a hard pass.
I think a big part of these Ts problem is that no one wants to sleep with them.
Rest in Peace Magdalen. Thank you for all your work
I miss you, Magdalen :( I love coming back to your videos and listening to you. I love you. Rest in power. We will never forget you... Never!
You are amazing. I'm a gay guy who loves your brain.
Brian Gorrell same!
oh no...you love someone's brain...are you really a ....zombie??? AHHHHHH RUNNN
Brian Gorrell, no she isn't and she hates men, so ur an idiot, ur probably a woman ftt making fake profiles.
@@mexicanradcen6405 what
mexican RADCEN
Seek help.
Gosh I miss her and her witty analysis. RIP Magdalen 💕
Whenever I get called a TERF I just say yeah my feminism is totally rad
Lately I think of Karens Song. “Im a terf I’m a terf I’m a reality embracing terf”.
"we're not denying biology" begins shifting eyes back and forth.
“What you socially identify as, is what you are.”
I identify as a black billionaire rap superstar.
9:59 “You need to really learn the difference between femininity and being a female”
I feel like she doesn't get a single point we've made as a group, like radfems support detransitioned women who discuss their struggles openly. and we want to protect women from sexual violence...like how is that heartless??
Luca D it's heartless because it's excludes delusional men. Boo hoo.
The white supremacists believe they're doing the same thing with racial purity... You should check out Stormfront... You share a lot of the same ideals.
Wayne whites are an oppressive class. males are an oppressive class, you can stop your shitty comparisons because the women present will be calling them out. Or are you one of those masochistic males who try to start fights with women so they can beat off to the loss?
@SkepticalChar
Delusional Morons are Delusional Morons, and guess what you are. You wouldn't know oppression if it bit your face off, neither would I - the difference is I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm not trying to "dine out" on my victimhood - I think it might be because I have something else to offer and thus I understood your problem.
@SkepticalChar
I'm not buying it - because I'm working class, currently unemployed and the ONLY people I've ever encountered who support the "Social Just-Us" narrative - have been privileged with wealth.
Because when you're working class you understand that neither men nor women are inherently privileged - Money is the only privilege and when you're working class the only thing you can be sure of is: "You have fuck all money or power, this doesn't change according to your genitals or skin colour.
Also every immigrant I've ever met and I worked with a factory full of them, has been opposed to "Social Just-Us". Most of my co-workers, in that factory, supported Brexit. Also Bread soaked in Water has more skeptic ability than you.
Miss you Magdalen. 💔
Your voice is soothing as fuck.
drugsnbeer lol Mags doing an ASMR vid on womens issues, i LOVE it!!!
lol. I was gonna say the same thing. Thought it might come off as weird. Thank you for putting it out there. ;)
We will continue the fight for women and girls everywhere 💔❤
Oooh Magdalen do I have a treat for you. In case you haven't already seen it, Riley J. Dennis uploaded a new video in which he responds to some of the things you said in your videos about him (he doesn't mention you, but it's obvious). He now calls sexual orientation "gential preference." A gift that keeps on giving.
Plus: You're only allowed to not like dicks if you were raped in the past. If you weren't, it's "cissexist" to not be attracted to penises. If you were, "take your time to heal"... and once you're feeling better I guess you have to like them, too.
"You will lose the debate, we both know this".
I see the original video is missing...
This is one of her best videos.
What a woman.
Magdalen, congrats on your video. I admire you a lot, always watch your videos and recommend them to my friends. Yours is a very important job, congratulations again!
“Wait... they don’t have heart”
“There you go again denying biology”
Comedy gold reserves suspected in England.
You really have no idea what you're talking about, Ernold.
Magdalen, I want to thank you for making these videos. They have great value for me.
I hope you continue doing many more, that you always stay strong and well. Regards!
We love you, Magdalen! We miss you.Thank you for speaking truth. If there is an afterlife, I hope it's as sensible and awesome as you (very).
'What you're saying is causing 'abuse', apologize.'
They want to control what you can and can't say. Quite familiar with these sorts of people. And an apology won't be enough.
Just telling you that's probably all that would come of a conversation.
Crocmaster McGeezax refusing the autonomy and independent thought of others is the halmark narcissists
...and blaming women for male violence.
I want to thank you miss berns for fighting for the rights of lesbians and gays. You are a resonable feminist and i think more people should give you the time of day and listen to your reasoning. Thanks again for being reasonable in your arguments, even if i dont agree on all your points i think your reasons are valuble for feminists, and others to listen too.
Out of interest what points do you disagree with? Hard to keep up and digest everything in the video in one go..
Wow she is so calm and confident. I can learn a thing or two from her logical fortitude. :)
I love you so much Magdalen, thank you for everything
i have so much respect and admiration for you, Magdalen. wish i had more courage to speak publicly about this stuff.
I hope you are resting in peace. We miss you, though.
I think this is Magdalen’s only video where she responded to a TIF. I wish she was still here to respond to the BS from the ilk of Jammidodger, Noahfince, and others in this new generation of TRAs.
Also, Ash Hardell!! (NB identifying female, who got a double mastectomy, because NB. And also, apparently convinced her lesbian partner to ALSO identify as NB, and get her breasts chopped off! Sad as sh*t, indeed.) Who I used to be a fan of, in some weird, alternate, surreal Twilight Zone reality, that either happened only in my mind, or happened half an eternity ago, when I was still a TRA. (May just have had a few glasses of wine, over here. :P)
Now leaving random comments on some of the worst Ash Hardell videos, to try to save some of her young, vulnerable, SUPER impressionable, trans identifying female fans! Which.. not sure it will do ANYTHING, whatsoever. But I feel pretty good about at least trying, regardless. (PS: Magdalen's response to her was EPIC, btw.
@@InterstellarDreams also yorick
@@InterstellarDreams Magdalen's video on Ash was indeed epic and it was absolutely pathetic how Ash decided to respond to her video AFTER the woman had died and could not respond back to her ridiculous accusations.
Magdalen says at 12:00 : They will never accept you. Most men will not accept them either as a female, but as they really are, men dressed as women.
Magdalen is a queen. Please get on tumblr
Tumblr doesn't deserve her.
"Ernold" just took the channel down. Pity.
Oh no. It was just starting to get fun
FarBeItForMe ToDenyAnyoneElse, magdalene is a sjw lol
I'm loling at the terf rap song intro
Isn't he contradicting himself when he says that giving birth is the most female experience..... lol when it's trans men he is showing in his video? O_o
She said it was feminine. She's a transman.
Imagine the childhood that creates a person like Ernold. Magdalen, rest in peace. Thank you for this video.
They said I could be named anything. So I became Ernold.
WOW I could listen to you talk all day and night. You're voice is soothing to me for some reason ❤
Please show any young women you know, Magdalen's videos...it's important they don't forget what it means to be a woman and hand over their rights and common sense to these deranged dreamers. It's not based in reality, just play acting.
Excellent video! As a male Marxist who immigrated to the UK 2 years ago
from Eastern Europe and someone who always supported the true women's
right movement (2nd wave Feminism) I've sadly witnessed the same
degradation of values within a UK revolutionary party I joined as in the
contemporary feminist movement. At last year''s national congress for
the UK the party has taken a hard line in denouncing "TERFs" and
supporting "Non-binarism", including comrades who published great works
and I looked up to a priori!
I have no problem with trans-men or women transitioning and living any
way they want, and I will always defend them against discrimination from
right wingers, but pretending biological sex does not exist and
replacing facts with "feelings" is something completely different. A man
is a man and a woman is a woman based on the factual nature of
biological sex, (not on what one "feels") as you so well articulated in
this video, and I'd argue that "non-binarism" is the greatest blow to
the womens' rights movement this century as it reinforces the idea of
gender roles (e.g to be female means to act "feminine" and to be male to
act "masculine" and if you're anywhere in-between you're a "different
gender" - NO! You're female or male based on your genitalia, and if you
act in a way that does not fit the cultural stereotypes
associated with your gender it just means you don't fucking confirm to
the social construct of gender roles!)
Marxism and feminism both trace their lineage in the proud tradition of
standing up againt the very oppressive system of patriarchal capitalism,
but also in the scientific method and in advocating for truth alongside
the betterment of mankind, and it really saddens me to see how many of
my comrades and how many feminists have fallen for the pseudoscientific
drivel of "non-binarism"! (and its poisonous attitudes towards those it
labels "TERFs") You've earned yourself a subscriber, and I do hope that
more people here your voice of reason! The system must be challanged
before the continued existence of human civilization is challenged by
it, (well, it already kinda is given how all peer-reviewed research
agrees that climate change will be irreversible in less than 2
decades...) and for that we need the old left that actually challenged
the system to come back!
All of my best regards to radical feminists still fighting patriarchal
oppression, as well as hope that we will regain our movements and
together make revolution happen!
P.S: Reposted this comment from another great video by Magdalen so that as many feminists as possible would see it. Both feminist and Marxist movements nowadays have been largely taken over by people pushing a pseudo-scientific violence-against-women-inciting narrative that denounces real feminists as "TERFs", so I think that regardless of your views of Marxism we would both stand to gain from working together and reclaiming our movemets. All the best to you all again, as well as respect for you taking on all of this abuse and threats of violence from transgender "women"!
I SOCIALLY identify myself as the left finger of a kit Kat so that means BY DEFINITION, that's what I am.
Looks like General Magdalen Berns has won this battle in the "T.E.R.F. Wars". Onward march!
No one is more worthy of a Caparisoned horse than General Berns. 😢
“A new breed of savage animal” I like that....I like it a lot.....new bio for my radfem blog lol
“Formally known as feminists” 🤣🤣
It's insane how masculine sounding Ernold is, I was really confused for a while why Mag was calling them "her".
And as always the scenes with the aggressive males screaming at women are horrible and blood boiling.
I cannot get my head around what Ernold is trying to say. Just stringing phrases together that they heard, without understanding the complexity and history is as practical as someone jumping into an arguement mid stream then asking what it was about after it is over.
I hope I can be like her. She doesn't lose it. I lose it a lot seeing nonsense, wish I could have cared less🤣
oh god your eyes are so incredibly beautiful..... just wanted to point that out.
Great video as always! uwu
“There you go again mate, denying biology.” 😂😂 love you new sub ❤️
"Living as a woman"
I love you Magdaline! You are so amazingly pacient, intellegent and rational and I really appreciate your opinion. Thank you for making videos ❤ blesses
Fuck. For a year i was watching your videos in English with a vocabulary and google , and now... I discovered that you made subtitles in RUSSIAN.
Now im watching this again and thinking : oh, i translated it correctly!"and then hating myself)))
sorry for so many words, what i wanted to say is thank you
As I have posted on another of your videos, I’m a liberal gay male who jumped into this debate without adequate thinking. And, without excusing my pretty bad behaviour said in anger, I certainly paid the price for it on Twitter. It’s odd, though. I have met far more trans-people than I have trans-activists; people who just want to get on with their lives with no desire in getting involved in any wider debate. As a man who had ‘GAY’ stamped on his forehead from the beginning of his life, coming of age just as AIDS birthed the new, ferocious homophobia, I didn’t have a pleasant adolescence. In fact, it pretty much fucked up my twenties and I wallowed in my own victimisation and self-pity until I pulled myself together just before I entered my thirties. I don’t want anybody to suffer that, I believe transgender people, like anybody, are entitled to live their lives without prejudice and I HAVE seen a lot of hate towards them from radical feminists. That made me pretty angry. However, what also made me angry was friends and acquaintances telling me that I was betraying the ‘cause’ for liking and commenting on your videos. I got pretty angry when I was shot-down, during a trans-bathroom debate, for pointing out something you said on one of your videos - ‘Women fought hard for female-only spaces’. They DID. I got pretty angry when I was called a traitor for merely stating that reassignment surgery being performed on children was wrong. A decision like that simply can’t be made by a child. If somebody wants to transition over the age of eighteen that’s fine with me, go for it. But for Christ’s sake, I would have been sent off for surgery at the age of five if I had had nutcase parents like those on another of your videos. And I’m NOT transgender, I’m an effeminate man. To be honest, I’m still trying to process all of this before I feel I can comment further; as I’ve learned more, my once-firm stance on the trans issue is now extremely wobbly.
I do think that the trans issue is currently encompassing all feminist debate. Please don’t attack me for this, people. Engage, reply, debate but don’t go on the offensive. I’ve not seen any posts about the uncomfortable rise in domestic violence and battering. And posts about the Chad Evans date-rape trial and the disturbing intentions of the Trump administration on abortion rights are outnumbered by posts on the trans issue by about a thousand to one. Trans-men are abusers, yes. But how many of them when compared to straight guys? Is it okay to state that equally essential issues are seemingly being swept under the table right now in favour of the trans issue?
Anyway, despite our often differing stance, I do love your videos. Please keep them coming.
Leighton Mueller alot of radfems are lesbians, and as such have been founders of the LGB movement and fought to get T in the umbrella.
we remember when most trans folk were gay boys who because of homophobia hung out with females and felt more comfortable with "feminine" expression. we remember how they loved the straight boys and hoped emulating more "feminine" things would get them the boy they liked. we remember how though they played with gender, they KNEW they weren't REALLY women and as such didnt FORCE themselves into womens space and instead were respectful and grateful when given access because we trusted them.
But thats not the trans movement today. Queer culture went mainstream, attracted a TON of straights who wanted to seem alternative and cool by pretending to be bi. we seen a TON of men with sissification fetishes invade lesbian territory and demand womwn facilitate their sexual proclivities
The trans movement of today has gone so fucking insane it tells the drag community which birthed them that they are bigot. they LIE about history and trans people at stone wall to justify their hijacking of the movement. These arent gay boys struggling with homophobia, these are primarily angsty teens looking for hip trends and grown wealthy men with cross dressing fetishes. These people NEED to be told off.
SkepticalChar Absolutely, I agree. Like I said, the more I learn the more my position is changing. I know a lot of radical feminists are lesbians; I know a lot of them. The reason I like Magdalen's videos is because I don't see any hate. Just logic, reason and cogency. It's also because of her delivery - they are fun to watch, as well as highly informative. And I cannot fault her research, it's impeccable. But I have seen hate from other radical feminists towards trans-people. Real hate. And that is something I will fight.
Yeah. I agree.
Leighton Mueller the actual and real violence and abuse the trans community does and causes deserves hate.
Otherwise, we'd all just be doormats
Leighton Mueller Trans woman here. Just wanted to thank you for speaking so respectfully. I completely agree with you that there's a lot that's wrong with trans politics nowadays, and I find it especially disturbing to watch the voices of cis women get silenced over and over again. At the same time, there are so many of us trans people (I would say the majority of us) who want nothing to do with the movement, and just want to be left alone as we live our lives.
I make a conscious effort to read about and recognize the concerns of radfems, because these are real. Of course I was socialized as male, and of course I have a history of male privilege - these are realities I think about and do my best to own up to. The only times I ever use women's only spaces are times when I desperately have to pee and I can't find a unisex washroom - otherwise I stay out of women's spaces completely. I know that although reproductive issues don't affect me, human rights in this area should be fully recognized and addressed as issues pertaining distinctly to people with female biology (including trans men). I'm not even remotely interested in women sexually, but I do think trans women should be extremely mindful of women's sexual boundaries and should respect these at all costs. It's horrific that rape culture is perpetuated in ideas like the 'cotton ceiling.'
Having said all of that, I don't think the logical outcome of this discussion should be to misgender trans people, to put all of us down, or even to incite violence against us. I'll never forget when I was at a movie theatre with my friends early in my transition, and a lesbian couple behind me started throwing popcorn at me and laughing. What bothered me most about this incident was not that I was mocked (not an act violence), but the fact that this couple outed me to a whole movie theatre after they threw food at me for a while and said things like 'you still look like a dude, buddy.' Eventually this sort of behaviour caught the attention of a group of straight men who were ignoring me up until this point, and I was assaulted by this group of straight guys that night after the movie was over. I spent months recovering physically from the attack, as I had multiple fractures - to be honest, I still live with this trauma and I'll never fully be myself again. This sort of behaviour really doesn't do anyone any good, and I would argue that it discourages gender non-conformity if anything. ***As a side note: 'misgendering' is sometimes considered violence by trans people exactly because this sort of interaction invites incidents like the one I just described.***
I would love for radfems and trans women to actually sit together and have a dialogue on identifying what little common ground there might be between the two movements. It's not easy, and I'm sure each side will have feelings about the other, but I think this sort of work is necessary. Even though I am exclusively male-attracted, I have lots of love for my lesbian sisters and I truly want lesbian radfems who feel erased by the trans movement to have a voice. I just don't think my suffering and the suffering of other trans woman should be necessary as a precursor to the greater political strength/unity of radfems and radfem-aligned women.
He just deleted the video and I think his whole channel? O-o wtf!
Don't dish out it if you can't take it, dude!
Hi from Brasil (: love your videos and thank you for the subtitles in portuguese! Thanks for existing
I'd like to hear your opinion on the backlash chimamanda ngozi Adichie has been getting
Who?
PretentiousRed a simple RUclips or Google search doesn't even take a minute
Kris Christy must not be that important then. Oh well.
PretentiousRed sure Jan
Transspeak is doublespeak and we already knew it was 1984, George/Emold. Can't imagine what insanity is next, but it will come I'm sure.
War is peace; ignorance is strength; freedom is slavery; transwomen are women.
Ernold has the look in their eye of somebody in a cult.
She destroys him !
Her , she destroyed her . That is a biological woman on testosterone
great video, thanks to Anastasia for russian subtitles, and also Magdalen really looks like a russian singer Zemfira especially with this haircut, idk :D
I'm gonna come out as trans and get me one of them juicy, woman-only small-business loans. Maybe they'll add a few affirmative action points to my entance exam scores at uni next fall, as well.
Man, I could get used to this!
Blair White was reason why I am here. Watched about 10 your videos and now i have crush on you....
At the very least though, Blaire White is realistic about herself. She has said time against that she knows she's a male and will die as one but there's no denying that socially, she pretty much is a young woman. I know saying that is very controversial but I give special nod to Blaire because she doesn't say things like "Biology is a social construct" or any other asinine variation of that.
Leave it to Turfs to side with a bigot Maga supporter
@@KaiDecadence blaire white is a "he"
@@wells686 I wrote that comment 2 years ago and let's just I'm gender critical now and yes, Blaire is a guy.
@@KaiDecadence lol 🤗🤗
A youtuber who also has a twitter
"How dare I?"😂
Damn, destroyed to the point where you "retire". Subbed.
Magdelen at her finest !
I wish you were still here . We all miss you .
I miss you so much, sister. x
I may not agree with you on a lot of topics, but watching you roast people while keeping such a cool head is completely entertaining.
Weird how anti SJW bad mouth feminists but not the radical ones, despite believing most of the same stuff.
Don't know who this person is, but I do know that when I was at uni, almost 20 years ago, we were taught about the ongoing debate regarding the issues surrounding spaces for what was then called "women born women" (I guess advocates for maintaining those spaces are now called "terfs") and the way that *various* streams of feminism view the issue. I mentioned it to an older trans friend, and she was surprised it was still being talked about, and that was years ago.
I think these younglings are not being taught shit at universities anymore. It's frankly depressing.
Simply Brilliant AND very entertaining - thank you.
I love you Magdalen. Just found your youtube channel! You're very funny and I love your videos. I want to be like you when I'm older.
We've all tried debating reasonably with these people, but always (unless you've been incredibly more lucky than I) with the same result. It's like pissing into the wind. They wanna call us "TERF". OK, then, wear you TERF, in my case TEGM I guess, badge with pride. It's a shame to all of us that we've sunk to name-calling rather than argument, and that's kind of a win for them. Keep trying, my darling, on behalf of us all.
This was GREAT! Yeah, anti-feminists don't always do their research before making response videos. It does get pathetic. And Ernold was just engaging in an emotional diatribe.
Why are Armored Skeptic and his sex slave on the thumbnail?
They had a big argument on twitter. That's what prompted Ernold to make his video.
About what? My account's locked, not interested in unlocking it.
About transgenderism/"TERFS"
Her Twitter bio is probably the best place to start. They're both uniquely insecure but it seems to work for them so whatever.
Eww, wtf...
thank you for being a little island of common sense in the ocean of madness
I just found out she died and I'm sorry about that.
This channel is always such a breath of fresh air, from the videos to those commenting and sharing their experiences. Thank you to everyone here.
And quite frankly I think you are not only a brilliant thinker and you are also gorgeous and I WANT YOUR HAIR CUT!
"whatever you socially identify as is what you are" OK I identify as Bill Gates on a weekend so I need access to his life asap and during the week I identify as a surgeon so give me my scrubs and I'll do your trans op!
At 4:14 when he can't even look straight at the camera when he says "nobody's denying biology here." Even he doesn't belive the bullshit coming out of his mouth.
I just l-o-v-e-d you dancing at the beginning of the video ~~~~t-e-r-f~~~~
another great video, thank u magdalen.
Géniale, du début à la fin 😎👏
Magdalen, thank you for making me realise that i will never be a woman, since watching your videos i realise `i`m no longer confused about my gender, i fucking hate labels and i never want to be pigeon holed. I always feel more comfortable in my female clothes, I live and work in my female clothes, i have some amazing gay and lesbian friends in my home town of Manchester (UK) both at work and socially. activists of any denomination can be dangerous, it`s finding the middle ground that is important, having said that i suppose we would not have such wonderful lively debates if the middle ground was all that was on offer. Live and let live that`s the way I live my life.