As someone who has camped since I was a toddler, how the hell do people just leave behind a tent? Even a cheap-o tent from Walmart isn’t cheap. And as a long time outdoorsman, absolutely agree.
Thank you for sharing this with everyone. I still don't understand why people need to take things that doesn't really belong to them in any case shape or form. In addition to putting things in sacred sites that's not supposed to be there it's not ok in any circumstance unless it's permitted by the country or site historians.
thank you for speaking to this. I was mortified to the level of desecration at Maebh and Carrowkeel just in 9mo put me into a huge spiral of grief. Thank you for teaching us how to show up better including myself
I love your passion for protecting history, archeology, home land, etc. Entitlement is absolutely something people need to think about & work through before visiting historical sites (& any/everywhere, honestly). This is why I love the Irish Pagan School, they aren't afraid to make people confront their own privileges & bad practices. We should all be striving to be better humans. I appreciate this video so much. 💚
Thanks for the fantastic post. It is so important and your passion is really appreciated. I live in Scotland and I have witnessed the same. On a recent visit to Clava Cairns I witnessed a couple of tourists trying to carve their names on a sacred tree in the site. Thankfully they were stopped. I am visiting your beautiful land next month and can promise I will leave only prayers ❤️
I agree 100% and share your anger! I visit prehistoric tombs, circles and standing stones all the time and get so dismayed at the shit that people leave behind. I usually have a bag in my pocket to take away the rubbish. We've seen the vandalism of so-called pagans at Carrowkeel and now there's the possibility of the tombs having locked gates installed destroying the ambience and ruining the enjoyment of those who genuinely respect these monuments. As for offerings tied to trees...I found a bird whose leg had got tangled up in one of these silly nylon ribbons and must have died a slow painful death...leave only footprints and take only photos, it's not that difficult to understand
If 100 people visited a historical site a week over the space of 2 years, if each person took 1 piece of that site, there would be nothing left after 2 years. Historically protected sites are legally protected for a reason.
Supporting the crafts of native Irish businesses is supporting its people and its culture so we would see that as different. now of course not all companies hold the same ethical values so its worth doing ones homework on that part especially where altar spaces are concerned. Great question.
I'm wondering along these lines... Say, there is a quarry near a sacred site, a small stone had been dislodged from harvesting, and left for waste. Would it still be inapropriate to take such a stone?
If your immediate response to being told "no" is to come up with some utterly contrived hypothetical to justify taking something even NEAR a sacred site (like, mate, you're grasping for loopholes at that point) then you need to listen again to what Jon says about entitlement.
@@badger16 Respectfully, I was mulling over some of my past behavior in regards to taking stones from manmade/non-ancient sites. The example I am giving here in this comment was from a manmade resevoir dating to the mid 1960s, although it was relatively close to sacred sites to the native peoples of California. I worded my original comment to fit the landscape, that being Ireland, that Jon was talking about. So, no, not a hypothetical, although I can see how you came to such a conclusion. As far as entitlement goes, I'm not trying to argue against anyone here. I am examining my own behaviour and seeking indigineous critique in as honest a way as I can, while presenting my query in a way that is relatable to the person I was asking. So, please, before you jump to your own assumptions regarding the queries of others, take a bit of humility to agknowledge that you do not know everything about everyone that you run into on the interwebs. I do see how my behavior had a bit of entitlement, if not a shit-ton of it. My query is to see how deep that entitlement goes, not to see how much I can "get away with," as you put it.
@@badger16 I am not one to pose dishonest queries to my community. I have been a member of the IPS community for many years. I am not perfect, but I am always looking for new ways to expand my knowledge and hold myself accountable.
@@liammoynihan2187 I'm sorry for being abrasive. Not just to you, but also to Jon and Lora - it's not right that I just came in swinging on their space. The reason why I took your comment the way I did is because to me it read similarly to a very common bad-faith argument that gets made in discussions of cultural appropriation, and that's what jolted my assumptions. But that doesn't excuse the way I addressed your comment so I apologise.
@@badger16 I can empathize with that. I've been known to project onto others as well. I share some responsibility in it. I should've been more open or provided more context to begin with. I appreciate your making ammends, thank you.
There's a natural protected area near my home that doesn't allow fires. It hurts my heart to see the number of pagan groups that gather on the full moon and sun festivals and collect local wood for a fire. There are places to do that. A habitat protection area is not that place
Its never ok , in fact i have been known to bring stones from the nearest river bed , as our ancestors did , i add to a stone to the bottom of the mound SeeFinn is the place i go and as iv have done for many years showing respect to our ancestors , this is the first time iv heard of not adding to the mounds , if i thought it was wrong in any way i would stop , but my hand has always been guided by the grand one himself . bright blessings from under the gaze of Seefinn
Stopped watching after 8 mins , very shocked and disappointed to see the anger and vile language being used . Will also be blocking content from the channel . He needs to deal with his anger before talking about spiritual paths and energy's 😢
I'm a bit confused about your reaction to the tone and language used, especially within the first 8 min. For the topic, I think Jon is incredibly calm and very little cursing (which is as part of the Irish lexicon and dialect as pronouns or grammer). And definately relatable passion, he's as well spoken, and relatable as I'm used to. I think you might just not like his message and being called out. If you are looking for love-light and a permission to do as you like (including to the detriment of others) in the name your own practice... That's not what you will find with IPS. This is a message about how to respect Irish sacred sites and check your entitlement. If that makes you uncomfortable you might want to think about why and then try listening again.
That was passion for protecting their history, archeology, home land, etc. He is absolutely correct & handled it very calmly, actually. Entitlement is absolutely something people need to think about & work through before visiting historical sites (& any/everywhere, honestly). This is why I love the Irish Pagan School, they aren't afraid to make people confront their own privileges & bad practices. We should all be striving to be better humans.
As someone who has camped since I was a toddler, how the hell do people just leave behind a tent? Even a cheap-o tent from Walmart isn’t cheap.
And as a long time outdoorsman, absolutely agree.
Thank you for sharing this with everyone. I still don't understand why people need to take things that doesn't really belong to them in any case shape or form. In addition to putting things in sacred sites that's not supposed to be there it's not ok in any circumstance unless it's permitted by the country or site historians.
thank you for speaking to this. I was mortified to the level of desecration at Maebh and Carrowkeel just in 9mo put me into a huge spiral of grief. Thank you for teaching us how to show up better including myself
I love your passion for protecting history, archeology, home land, etc. Entitlement is absolutely something people need to think about & work through before visiting historical sites (& any/everywhere, honestly). This is why I love the Irish Pagan School, they aren't afraid to make people confront their own privileges & bad practices. We should all be striving to be better humans. I appreciate this video so much. 💚
Thanks for the fantastic post. It is so important and your passion is really appreciated. I live in Scotland and I have witnessed the same. On a recent visit to Clava Cairns I witnessed a couple of tourists trying to carve their names on a sacred tree in the site. Thankfully they were stopped. I am visiting your beautiful land next month and can promise I will leave only prayers ❤️
Thank you, Jon, for this important information.
This is so well stated!! Thank you for this.
It's really sad to see people using their practice and selfishness to overwrite other people's sacred sites. This was a great and detailed video.
I agree 100% and share your anger! I visit prehistoric tombs, circles and standing stones all the time and get so dismayed at the shit that people leave behind. I usually have a bag in my pocket to take away the rubbish. We've seen the vandalism of so-called pagans at Carrowkeel and now there's the possibility of the tombs having locked gates installed destroying the ambience and ruining the enjoyment of those who genuinely respect these monuments. As for offerings tied to trees...I found a bird whose leg had got tangled up in one of these silly nylon ribbons and must have died a slow painful death...leave only footprints and take only photos, it's not that difficult to understand
Thank you Jon! I really appreciate you speaking on this.
If 100 people visited a historical site a week over the space of 2 years, if each person took 1 piece of that site, there would be nothing left after 2 years. Historically protected sites are legally protected for a reason.
Thank you for this video, a well stated and important insight!
I appreciate your thoughts. I think the concept of the clooty tree needs to be reevaluated. Both by indigenous Irish and the other visitors.
Only heritage management for a specific location has that authority. And even at that, it's often over exercised.
A photograph says a thousand words.
I can't believe anyone would do this!
Connemara marble is often sold... Is this an ethical item for ancestral altars?
Supporting the crafts of native Irish businesses is supporting its people and its culture so we would see that as different. now of course not all companies hold the same ethical values so its worth doing ones homework on that part especially where altar spaces are concerned. Great question.
I'm wondering along these lines... Say, there is a quarry near a sacred site, a small stone had been dislodged from harvesting, and left for waste. Would it still be inapropriate to take such a stone?
If your immediate response to being told "no" is to come up with some utterly contrived hypothetical to justify taking something even NEAR a sacred site (like, mate, you're grasping for loopholes at that point) then you need to listen again to what Jon says about entitlement.
@@badger16 Respectfully, I was mulling over some of my past behavior in regards to taking stones from manmade/non-ancient sites. The example I am giving here in this comment was from a manmade resevoir dating to the mid 1960s, although it was relatively close to sacred sites to the native peoples of California. I worded my original comment to fit the landscape, that being Ireland, that Jon was talking about. So, no, not a hypothetical, although I can see how you came to such a conclusion. As far as entitlement goes, I'm not trying to argue against anyone here. I am examining my own behaviour and seeking indigineous critique in as honest a way as I can, while presenting my query in a way that is relatable to the person I was asking. So, please, before you jump to your own assumptions regarding the queries of others, take a bit of humility to agknowledge that you do not know everything about everyone that you run into on the interwebs.
I do see how my behavior had a bit of entitlement, if not a shit-ton of it. My query is to see how deep that entitlement goes, not to see how much I can "get away with," as you put it.
@@badger16 I am not one to pose dishonest queries to my community. I have been a member of the IPS community for many years. I am not perfect, but I am always looking for new ways to expand my knowledge and hold myself accountable.
@@liammoynihan2187 I'm sorry for being abrasive. Not just to you, but also to Jon and Lora - it's not right that I just came in swinging on their space.
The reason why I took your comment the way I did is because to me it read similarly to a very common bad-faith argument that gets made in discussions of cultural appropriation, and that's what jolted my assumptions. But that doesn't excuse the way I addressed your comment so I apologise.
@@badger16 I can empathize with that. I've been known to project onto others as well. I share some responsibility in it. I should've been more open or provided more context to begin with.
I appreciate your making ammends, thank you.
Take only photos and leave no trace.
There's a natural protected area near my home that doesn't allow fires. It hurts my heart to see the number of pagan groups that gather on the full moon and sun festivals and collect local wood for a fire. There are places to do that. A habitat protection area is not that place
Never
bit difficult to understand why people need telling to have some respect.
Bc some ppl think every site is a tourist attraction only for them like Disneyland 🤦♀️
The karma they reap is unimaginable. People these days with their self- entitlement.
Reminds me of the term the butterfly effect. Come on people have respect! Especially the Pagan community come on this makes zero sense! 🤯😡
Never ok.
When they're not glued down
Its never ok , in fact i have been known to bring stones from the nearest river bed , as our ancestors did ,
i add to a stone to the bottom of the mound SeeFinn is the place i go and as iv have done for many years showing respect to our ancestors , this is the first time iv heard of not adding to the mounds ,
if i thought it was wrong in any way i would stop , but my hand has always been guided by the grand one himself .
bright blessings from under the gaze of Seefinn
Stopped watching after 8 mins , very shocked and disappointed to see the anger and vile language being used . Will also be blocking content from the channel . He needs to deal with his anger before talking about spiritual paths and energy's 😢
I'm a bit confused about your reaction to the tone and language used, especially within the first 8 min. For the topic, I think Jon is incredibly calm and very little cursing (which is as part of the Irish lexicon and dialect as pronouns or grammer). And definately relatable passion, he's as well spoken, and relatable as I'm used to.
I think you might just not like his message and being called out. If you are looking for love-light and a permission to do as you like (including to the detriment of others) in the name your own practice... That's not what you will find with IPS.
This is a message about how to respect Irish sacred sites and check your entitlement. If that makes you uncomfortable you might want to think about why and then try listening again.
That was passion for protecting their history, archeology, home land, etc. He is absolutely correct & handled it very calmly, actually. Entitlement is absolutely something people need to think about & work through before visiting historical sites (& any/everywhere, honestly). This is why I love the Irish Pagan School, they aren't afraid to make people confront their own privileges & bad practices. We should all be striving to be better humans.