@AgentHomer What i meant was punk mutated from it's original intent and outlook, into the MTV commercialized, sanitized, crap, that will barely offend mommy and daddy.If your parents are old punkers, Green Day will probably just elicit guffaws. Goth? Still the same? Depends on whom you ask, I think not, for the most part, what happened to punk happened to goth.
@AgentHomer it's not the heaviness, as in loud and punishing, that I'm implying. it's the particular atmosphere, that the band is going for. to me, there's different kinds of "heavy", when you get right down to it. I listen to doom and thrash, stuff like SWANS, My Bloody Valentine, Neubauten. All different degrees of "heavy" in my opinion.
Stream brought words and Stream brought meanings Through its aether were seen all beings beauty revealed as cruelty Core of grief as death of desire Stream flow in depth unmatched crossed a statue with no hearing March came colder than invited crossed a realm of two endings Stream to a sea had started turning
@AgentHomer Fall in the Death Metal area, as in where the music is coming from, in terms of lyrics, outlook and sound, I didn't mean geographically speaking, that's a good one though, ha ha.
I was up late. 3 am and thought I'd check out some of the old posts before turning in. I saw some unanswered posts and thought I'd honour them. I was going to add onto last night's post, "Pop Punk", "Emo" etc. to why I think Punk mutated. LOL rather like "Black Metal" I think, anyway.
back in the eighties they WE're the originators. THEY we're THE one. maybe not in the much later,Norway scheme of things, but VENOM, gave those bands their careers. I dare say, none including BATHORY would've thought of it on their own. I was in highschool back then listening to VENOM, find me a fucking Emperor lp from back then.
@swans1997 what do you mean, fall in the death metal area? you mean the tampa scene? slayer is from L A I believe, and celtic frost are from switzerland. about the topics: yes, they do talk about death. just like exodus, metallica candlemass, black sabbath and tom waits.
well, yes, I agree. it really is a bit weird looking back at something I said 2 years ago. It's like, I totally don't believe a lot of the stuff I thought back then anymore. talking about what I said back then is a bit like talking about something somebody else said.
I read in an old interview online a few yrs. back that Lia was the name of one of the members deceased girlfriend's. I can't remember though if it was the keyboardist or the vocalist. I can't find that damn interview either anymore. When I do, I'll post the link.
Funeral Doom, Death, take your pick. I prefer to call it Funeral Doom, because that label to me is hilarious, but it fits. Gloom Core? There's one for ya.
No navel gazer here. I put this clip up didn't i? Ilove this band and Until Death overtakes Me and such.All kinds really classical, jazz, metal, goth, psychedelia No, Swans is a great band to look into. They weren't exactly dark, not that they wanted to be but it was heavy brutal and nihilistic music and often gorgeous in my humble opinion.Send me a pm. let's chat tunes you sound like someone I could talk music with.
@AgentHomer I think of Slayer as a Thrash band, but to me they had elements of Black Metal as well as Death there too. I just think THRASH, isn't the perfect label for them, personally. I think they transcend genres, like Celtic Frost did. They both are influential on bands who fall into the Death Metal area. Slayer may not be a proper Death Metal band, but, some of their topics fall into that area, don't you think?
@swans1997 to me, genres are a means to an end. they make describing music easier (in some cases). otherwise I don't really care about genres either, I care about expression. what I said was just to end your slayer/death metal discussion, which seemed pretty ridiculous to me. I don't like arguments like these, exactly because genres are not so important to me.
I know yours is a 2 year old post, but I'd like to explain why I said, "punk mutated", heh.Punk was strictly a do it yourself screw the current fashions thing or trends and the past and quickly did an about face. It resisted following rules and became a rules based scene. Designated uniform etc.Largely the same sound and look for nearly 40 years. You can buy "punk fashion" at Hot Topic and other convenient outlets along with that Greenday cd.
@AgentHomer To me genres aren't always a means to an end. Genres often get confused or mutate into something other than what it was. Happened to Punk as well as Goth.Take a band like Venom, who coined the "Black Metal" thing than are later denied that title by those who purloin the term for themselves and start their own scene. To me Venom was and IS Black Metal.
@MDNSBS Where'd you get Death Metal? This is usually referred to as "Funeral Doom". I certainly don't refer to this as "Death Metal". I don't refer to Slayer as Death Metal, for that matter, either. In fact, I think about 90 per cent of the bands that are labeled as "Death Metal" , don't even fit the description, just because they play Sabbath on speed riffs and growl like a bear, the sound doesn't make it "Death Metal" to me, just so the little trendies can find where they're at.
@riric666 well, if you founded a band with a revolutionary new sound, then coined a new term for your music that sounds like nothing before, and a few years later people would say you're not that genre you invented for yourself, you'd protest, too. if anything, darkthrone and mayhem aren't black metal and venom are.
@riric666 yes yes yes. Tom Fischer, and Martin Ain, themselves admitted that Hellhammer wasn't anymore than a Venom rip off. While HH is considered a pioneer Death Metal band,(I do) as well as Frost, I'd say that Venom has a place in influencing the genre. Black, Speed Thrash, Death, The later bands, expanded on the idea and added to the sound or came up with some new ideas and approach as well as make-up ha ha. It all comes from the same place though.
The second LP says you're wrong.1982. Where was Bathory? Venom IS Black Metal. They originated it. The Scandinavians, picked it up and ran with it their way with all the pagan and Odin myths and religion and heroes they exalted. Venom was the source and the 2nd wave and later expanded on their ideas. Venom did more than just "Thrash".
@AgentHomer Genres? I don't care about genres anymore. What I care about is, if a band or a certain form of music is interesting to me. I'm too old to care about "scenes" anymore. Thrash, Speed, and whatnot, seems all interchangeable, when you get right down to it. I'll let the trendies give a shit about all that.
Cool so you gave an awesome band a chance.Sounds like you need to hear more though. Download some albums like Soundtracks For The Blind or Cop. Greed And Holy Money are good ones too. They weren't all about accoustic warbling and you aren't going to tell me Goddamn The Sun isn't depressing.There's more to being depressing than playing slowed down Sabbath and growling like a bear.I like Skepticism a lot but they really aren't that much of a stretch in the originality sweepsteaks. MY TWO CENTS.
@swans1997 punk mutated? you mean, there are punk rock bands, that don't sound like the sex pistols/ramones/clash (who also sound very much alike)? And goth rock in my ears still sounds the same after all those years (thank god/satan/Peter murphy, or whoever was responsible). but I guess I know what you mean. I still don't get why genres are not always a means to an end. is a genre some kind of badge you earn? an honorific title?
Why'd they give you a bad rating? honest question I thought. some just CAN'T accept an opinion and cowardly mark you off, without letting you know who it is. Doomsters my ass! WIMPS!
@MDNSBS Hardly any "Death Metal" bands truly concentrate on the subject of "Death", so, how does that make Slayer any more "Death Metal" than this anyway? This band spends most of the time ruminating on that subject, even more than Slayer. Which I always thought of as thrash B movie horror type of band anyway. I don't care what the trendies call it.
@AgentHomer What i meant was punk mutated from it's original intent and outlook, into the MTV commercialized, sanitized, crap, that will barely offend mommy and daddy.If your parents are old punkers, Green Day will probably just elicit guffaws. Goth? Still the same? Depends on whom you ask, I think not, for the most part, what happened to punk happened to goth.
This song is breathtaking.
@AgentHomer it's not the heaviness, as in loud and punishing, that I'm implying. it's the particular atmosphere, that the band is going for. to me, there's different kinds of "heavy", when you get right down to it. I listen to doom and thrash, stuff like SWANS, My Bloody Valentine, Neubauten. All different degrees of "heavy" in my opinion.
Check out the live clip for THE ARRIVAL from their 2008 tour. I just saw it a couple days ago, and have been playing it quite frequently. Beautiful.
This song just makes me feel like, I understand the world a bit better, or i am at least at a peace with it.
Best song ever written.
Doom rule number 3 "Every day is a funeral"
I'm from Finland.
And now I can be proud of that fact.
Fuck yeah \m/
6:22 ...amazing moment of this song...
Stream brought words
and Stream brought meanings
Through its aether were seen all beings
beauty revealed as cruelty
Core of grief as death of desire
Stream flow in depth unmatched
crossed a statue with no hearing
March came colder than invited
crossed a realm of two endings
Stream to a sea had started turning
@guitarbassist95 Hey ,you guys have a cracking band here. Love them. I'm in the U.S. tell them to come to Seattle for me!
This is arguably the most depressing song in doom metal.
@AgentHomer Fall in the Death Metal area, as in where the music is coming from, in terms of lyrics, outlook and sound, I didn't mean geographically speaking, that's a good one though, ha ha.
I was up late. 3 am and thought I'd check out some of the old posts before turning in. I saw some unanswered posts and thought I'd honour them. I was going to add onto last night's post, "Pop Punk", "Emo" etc. to why I think Punk mutated. LOL rather like "Black Metal" I think, anyway.
back in the eighties they WE're the originators. THEY we're THE one. maybe not in the much later,Norway scheme of things, but VENOM, gave those bands their careers. I dare say, none including BATHORY would've thought of it on their own. I was in highschool back then listening to VENOM, find me a fucking Emperor lp from back then.
@swans1997 what do you mean, fall in the death metal area? you mean the tampa scene? slayer is from L A I believe, and celtic frost are from switzerland. about the topics: yes, they do talk about death. just like exodus, metallica candlemass, black sabbath and tom waits.
well, yes, I agree. it really is a bit weird looking back at something I said 2 years ago. It's like, I totally don't believe a lot of the stuff I thought back then anymore. talking about what I said back then is a bit like talking about something somebody else said.
I read in an old interview online a few yrs. back that Lia was the name of one of the members deceased girlfriend's. I can't remember though if it was the keyboardist or the vocalist. I can't find that damn interview either anymore. When I do, I'll post the link.
@swans1997 I never talked about heaviness, that was a misunderstanding: I meant, it's not so hard to guess which genre it is.
Doom definitely.
Funeral Doom, Death, take your pick. I prefer to call it Funeral Doom, because that label to me is hilarious, but it fits. Gloom Core? There's one for ya.
Have you seen those live clips from their recent tour that people posted? Check out the "Skepticism The Arrival" clip here. Nice.
No navel gazer here. I put this clip up didn't i? Ilove this band and Until Death overtakes Me and such.All kinds really classical, jazz, metal, goth, psychedelia No, Swans is a great band to look into. They weren't exactly dark, not that they wanted to be but it was heavy brutal and nihilistic music and often gorgeous in my humble opinion.Send me a pm. let's chat tunes you sound like someone I could talk music with.
@WrathOfTheTyrants No, but I will listen now.
@AgentHomer I think of Slayer as a Thrash band, but to me they had elements of Black Metal as well as Death there too. I just think THRASH, isn't the perfect label for them, personally. I think they transcend genres, like Celtic Frost did. They both are influential on bands who fall into the Death Metal area. Slayer may not be a proper Death Metal band, but, some of their topics fall into that area, don't you think?
@swans1997 to me, genres are a means to an end. they make describing music easier (in some cases). otherwise I don't really care about genres either, I care about expression. what I said was just to end your slayer/death metal discussion, which seemed pretty ridiculous to me. I don't like arguments like these, exactly because genres are not so important to me.
I know yours is a 2 year old post, but I'd like to explain why I said, "punk mutated", heh.Punk was strictly a do it yourself screw the current fashions thing or trends and the past and quickly did an about face. It resisted following rules and became a rules based scene. Designated uniform etc.Largely the same sound and look for nearly 40 years. You can buy "punk fashion" at Hot Topic and other convenient outlets along with that Greenday cd.
@AgentHomer To me genres aren't always a means to an end. Genres often get confused or mutate into something other than what it was. Happened to Punk as well as Goth.Take a band like Venom, who coined the "Black Metal" thing than are later denied that title by those who purloin the term for themselves and start their own scene. To me Venom was and IS Black Metal.
@riric666 the zic? who are they? and I never said anything about slayer. I was talking about venom only.
@MDNSBS Where'd you get Death Metal? This is usually referred to as "Funeral Doom". I certainly don't refer to this as "Death Metal". I don't refer to Slayer as Death Metal, for that matter, either. In fact, I think about 90 per cent of the bands that are labeled as "Death Metal" , don't even fit the description, just because they play Sabbath on speed riffs and growl like a bear, the sound doesn't make it "Death Metal" to me, just so the little trendies can find where they're at.
@riric666 well, if you founded a band with a revolutionary new sound, then coined a new term for your music that sounds like nothing before, and a few years later people would say you're not that genre you invented for yourself, you'd protest, too. if anything, darkthrone and mayhem aren't black metal and venom are.
@riric666 yes yes yes. Tom Fischer, and Martin Ain, themselves admitted that Hellhammer wasn't anymore than a Venom rip off. While HH is considered a pioneer Death Metal band,(I do) as well as Frost, I'd say that Venom has a place in influencing the genre. Black, Speed Thrash, Death, The later bands, expanded on the idea and added to the sound or came up with some new ideas and approach as well as make-up ha ha. It all comes from the same place though.
@Pryce2112 haha nice.
9 dislikes. Thanks for stopping by, BUTTROCKERS.
The second LP says you're wrong.1982. Where was Bathory? Venom IS Black Metal. They originated it. The Scandinavians, picked it up and ran with it their way with all the pagan and Odin myths and religion and heroes they exalted. Venom was the source and the 2nd wave and later expanded on their ideas. Venom did more than just "Thrash".
@AgentHomer Genres? I don't care about genres anymore. What I care about is, if a band or a certain form of music is interesting to me. I'm too old to care about "scenes" anymore. Thrash, Speed, and whatnot, seems all interchangeable, when you get right down to it. I'll let the trendies give a shit about all that.
@swans1997 slayer = thrash metal Skepticism = Funeral Doom Metal
it's not so hard.
Or is it?
@guitarbassist95 you listened to Wormphlegm?
Cool so you gave an awesome band a chance.Sounds like you need to hear more though. Download some albums like Soundtracks For The Blind or Cop. Greed And Holy Money are good ones too. They weren't all about accoustic warbling and you aren't going to tell me Goddamn The Sun isn't depressing.There's more to being depressing than playing slowed down Sabbath and growling like a bear.I like Skepticism a lot but they really aren't that much of a stretch in the originality sweepsteaks. MY TWO CENTS.
@AgentHomer
Influenced ,yes but the zic is not Black Metal ! Slayer is THRASH only !
@swans1997 punk mutated? you mean, there are punk rock bands, that don't sound like the sex pistols/ramones/clash (who also sound very much alike)? And goth rock in my ears still sounds the same after all those years (thank god/satan/Peter murphy, or whoever was responsible). but I guess I know what you mean. I still don't get why genres are not always a means to an end. is a genre some kind of badge you earn? an honorific title?
Ha Ha they gave you a bad rating. I know someone here may be itching to give me one, but It's MY CLIP so they can do what they want! I ain't budgin'!
HA HA compared to stuff like Swans? I don't think so.I like this band but, Michael Gira wrote some GORGEOUS nihilistic classics in my opinion.
is this a remixed version? the album I have sounds different.
Why'd they give you a bad rating? honest question I thought. some just CAN'T accept an opinion and cowardly mark you off, without letting you know who it is. Doomsters my ass! WIMPS!
My fuckin favorite (L)
@MDNSBS Hardly any "Death Metal" bands truly concentrate on the subject of "Death", so, how does that make Slayer any more "Death Metal" than this anyway? This band spends most of the time ruminating on that subject, even more than Slayer. Which I always thought of as thrash B movie horror type of band anyway. I don't care what the trendies call it.
hey if you use soulseek my user name is the same there as here.
Venom Black Metal? Slayer a touch of Death /Black Metal?
NO,NO,NO
To call them just a "Thrash" band is incorrect I think. See the first interview on Ultimate Revenge. /watch?v=u5jLEyiotec
Gira is HARDLY one for self pity. One , shouldn't judge on the first few listens, and do some fucking research before judging.