The colors aren't that difficult. You have 16 per color directly, and 8 that can produce any color for 1 more mana. You also can surveil lands with the wrong color away, while keeping the correct colors, if you are short of correctly colored mana after the mulligan.
Your opponent that was emoting about your mulligans doesn't understand Magic. If someone sits and thinks about each hand but eventually tosses them away as they mulligan down to 4, you know your opponent is gonna struggle. If your opponent snap keeps at 4 after immediately tossing 7, 6, and 5, you've gotta brace yourself, 'cause they're definitely playing combo and almost certainly have exactly what they need.
Especially if this was Historic where Minion of the Mighty exists. It's actually arguable to take a mull if you're on the play just to see how quickly your opponent mulls. If they mull quick you might want to keep mulling to hit removal for Minion.
This happens so often with "opps all __" strats, so many arena playes don't see this comming, and I think thats one of the best parts of playing these type of decks.
@@DonovanPresents I straight up have the "sweating" emote when someone just Pops mulligans immediately because i know im about to be 2 turned by a goblin charbelche, Mighty, or some other outrageous combo.
Downside: godawful cost in rare wildcards. Upside: I have already got some of the surveils crafted, and a meme deck like this might be the excuse to round out the whole set? I've even got the Vinelashers, and I've probably got the hedge shredders from a ton of DSK drafts.
The surveil land Hedge Shredder combo can technically find a one-of spell anywhere in your deck “Treasure Hunt Style”. You could do something like find Villainous Wealth, with X being every land in your deck.
I did a Scryfall search looking for X spells and found a couple ideas: - Doppelgang could do something spicy at X=3, but that does take 11 mana. Make three copies of a vinelasher in play, then three copies of two more lands, so you have 4x vinelashers triggering 6 times for 24 damage? - Exsanguinate could just X=whatever you can do, and either drains for lethal or maybe buys you the life/time to go one more try. - Song of Totentanz can just make a ton of rats and swing, basically Rat Fireball. If that doesn't get them, you can probably swing again the turn after if they don't wrath. - A sufficiently large Genesis Wave might hit every piece of the combo all at once. Every card in the deck is a hit, most of them are 0 mana value, and 4/8 of the nonlands are mana value 1. Green Sun's Twilight is probably a worse version of this. - Valgavoth's Onslaught for like X=4 or greater might do something, almost certainly binning four lands at once and maybe digging you into a vinelasher (try to hold up a black to flip it). I think 1-2 Genesis Wave is probably the best of those choices.
This seems like a super reasonable plan B. Maybe you cut like 2 of the worst Surveil lands and go 50 lands, the combo, plus 2 Villainous Wealth? Sure the combo gets less consistent but you have a backup plan should plan A fail for whatever reason
You should also play something like a Cache Grab. With that you mill like 3 surveil lands and fizzle a lot less this way when your Shredder is in play. And it helps finding them.
Yeah, the only options you can cut are... Lands -> increases whiff rate Vinelashers -> decreases chance of drawing your wincon Hedge shredders -> increases mulligan rate Nothing -> a little of all 3 by increasing deck size The upside is that if you have a vinelasher, and you whiff on a doppelgang, you win the next turn.
Awaken the Woods, Genesis Wave.. Even Green Sun's Twilight. Just something to dump mana into if you combo'd off with the hedge shredder, that.. Well, probably wins the game.
Valgavoth's Onslaught can act as a mana sync, a way to put multiples lands on the same turn to avoid whiffing, and helps find the Vinelasher that you can transform in response to the Hedge Shredder triggers.
brooo you have the best meme decks. I do have the surveil lands for this so I finished the deck. it doesnt win more than 30% or so but its really funny when it does. lol and these lands besides are really REALLY good, theres a reason theyre expensive in paper. One card I added for fun, 2x of, is the blue room fractured realm. it doubles triggers from ALL your permanents -- reducing the chances you whiff, you get 2x surveil triggers so you can jump over a nonland that would normally break the streak. and it also doubles the ping damage triggers LMAO. epic meme deck
25:07 what about a single copy of Worldsoul's Rage? Maybe cut 1 vinelasher. Another idea: replace the remaining 3 vinelashers with 3 Tocasia's Dig Site. It's not a surveil land itself, but it can restart the surveil loop with its activated ability. The idea then is to just find the single Worldsoul's Rage with the surveil loop and cast it the following turn.
a one of or two of Worldsoul's Rage could be good. Would help burnout the opponent from the spell itself while also getting more surveil lands onto the battlefield if you do whiff
You know watching that game where you milled yourself down to like 20 cards finding a Vinelasher and was worried about whiffing, I'm wondering if a card like Worldsoul's Rage would make the deck a little better. Not that the deck isn't funny as it is you know, but flinging a Fireball at your opponent's head for like 40 is pretty great too.
Oh damn, that's a fun pick. I don't think he usually has many lands in graveyard but emptying the hand of lands and any early surveiled away is still pretty punchy. I was thinking Genesis Wave, or Valgavoth's Onslaught. Wave does a bunch of lands and gets a bunch of surveil triggers to dig super-deep if it doesn't hit enough to win, and Onslaught will manifest a lot of power onto the board while also putting a lot of lands in the graveyard from the library.
I had the same thought. I think it would be really good because the second part of the ability would also act as whiff protection even if X isn't enough to finish the opponent
Much funnier option: Outrageous Robbery. I initially thought it'd be worse than Worldsoul's Rage, but if opponent removed Hedge Shredder you have to already have 22+ mana to win with Worldsoul's, and huge Outrageous Robbery might win with less, considering your mana advantage.
1x world soul rage might help. If you draw it when combo-ing you can get your early game surveils back and continue the chain with a little damage boost
Re: scry lands, they have existed on the client for a lot longer, so it is likely that players have more of them, especially because they were in both core sets and theros back in the day
I wonder if this deck wants a copy of Exsanguinate in it to "tutor up" with Hedge Shredder? If you want to go really crazy, a version of this deck in Historic could run some number of Enhanced Surveillance (1U Enchantment, you look at +2 cards when surveiling, sacrifice to shuffle your graveyard into your library). On the one hand, it dilutes your deck by adding more nonlands. On the other hand, your lands now have Surveil 3, meaning that they're WAY less likely to whiff and you've got a better chance of digging for pieces before you combo off.
I dug around looking for fun one-ofs, I think Genesis Wave might be the play. Every other card in this deck is a permanent and most of them are 0 Mana Value; so even X=4 or X=5 slams four or five lands into play and surveils deeper. Valgavoth's Onslaught for like X=4 creates 24 power on-board in a single spell and almost certainly bins 4 lands, while also maybe finding your vinelasher if you don't have one in play already. If you can hold up 1 black mana to flip a face-down Vinelasher, full send.
@@51gunner I like Onslaught cause Genesis Wave as the bottom card kinda feels like 💩 and there's a good chance you're Domain opponent is side boarding out all their sweepers
There is 1 temple in each of the new player decks, I absolutely run them as a budget option. You can also roll them as ICRs even though you can't actually open them in Foundations packs.
People play temples because everyone got 1 temple of each color for free when foundations came out as part of the free decks Edit: also I think this deck should play 2 worldsoul's rage instead of the vinelashers, as that would mean we're not reliant on the hedge shredder for a turn, and the triggers from putting all the lands in our hand/graveyard into play would more or less make it guaranteed that we'd find the other worldsoul's rage.
You mentioned maybe running some cards to make use of all the mana, but you don't want any more cards in the deck that aren't surveil lands. Have you considered just...not running the Vinelasher? Or running fewer than 4? Exanguinate is legal in standard right now. It can't crew the shredder like Vinelasher can, but it doesn't fold to a pair of removal spells. Could try a 2/2 split edit: also it doesn't run the risk of running out of lands. Even if all your exsanguinates are at the bottom of the deck, every land ramped with hedge shredder is damage into the exsanguinate when you cast it. Or even better than exsanguinate: Worldsoul's Rage, since it lets you play more lands, potentially surveiling you into more Worldsoul's Rages.
This is an amazing puzzle. This is why I love magic deckbuilding. I wish I had better ideas, but some of these could be good (but not all together, you can't put too many of these in the deck or it'll ruin your plan). Colossal Rattlewurm isn't a full wiff (since you can exile it from your graveyard), and if you have some in the graveyard early, it can be used to help fight past wiffs at instant speed (find a pylons and put it into play). Buried treasure, like colossal rattlewurm, isn't a full wif either, but activating it only finds your next vinelash, buried treasure, or hedge shreder. Though it can act as a way to get hedge shredder out a turn earlier. think twice milled before playing hedge shredder can reset the top of your deck, but it isn't worth it. Eerie soultender isn't a full miss (can exile from the graveyard to reanimate), and is great to cast or reanimate with another copy of itself, if you have the mana. Faerie Dreamthief is a similar to eerie soultender, but isn't great. Maybe have fewer vinelashers and use echoing deeps as another surveil land, assuming you milled some before you played hedge shredder. Having 4 vinelashers only hurts the math. And echoing deeps is another copy of a surveil land. One copy of Jace the perfected mind is a source of wfi, but if you get it, you can guaruntee milling your whole deck. One copy might be worth it. No more than one. One or two copies of the Tale of Tamiyo, or even replacing vinelash with the tale of tamiyo and with a storm finisher might be fun, though doesn't solve any problems.
First thing I thought of to add was some kind of “play two lands a turn” effect permanent. Let’s you ramp up to the Hedge Shredder easily, and gets around combo fizzle. Don’t remember if any are in standard right now though.
Tempels some people still have from earlier arena days and we got some for free through the base decks everyone gets. I would love to spend some wild cards on Surveil lands but I needed things like the Talents to even have cards that compete. The easiest way to get them though is quick draft in Karlov Manor since the computer doesn't pick them as quickly.
You can replace Arid Archway with Echoing Deeps. Arid Archway whiffs if you don't control any of the 7 other deserts, while Echoing Deeps whiffs if you play 4 surveil lands and hit Hedge Shredder, Vinelasher, and/or Deeps on all 4 surveils in the first few turns
Hearing Seth talk about Zombie Hunt, I'm not sure he understands why this deck has a lot more potential. It all comes down to cantrip theory. Because you're able to surveil things away so aggressively, you are getting 2 cards closer to your payoff every single turn. Imagine a combo deck drawing an extra card every single turn, that would be insane! Where this list falls is that the actual combo is just too easy to disrupt. I believe, if you can find something better to do with this engine, you might have a shot in Pioneer, Modern, and maybe(!) even Legacy! (Oh god, imagine including fetchlands into this math 🤯)
I feel like there are so many possible builds of this deck. With spelunking, you can make so much mana so quickly. With a hedge shredder in a fairly normal deck, you are guaranteed to draw action every time you play a land. My favorite interaction would definitely be dredge though.
What about a single copy of Worldsoul’s Rage? Finding one early gives you another few looks for a Vinelasher if you hit Hedge Shredder 2 turns of digging in a row, and finding one after digging through half your deck could potentially win the game next turn.
I think a playset of Cache Grabs might be worthwhile, alongside one or two of a big X spell like Worldsoul’s Rage. It would increase the whiff potential, but streamline the ability to close games
Having thought it over and examined the standard card pool, I’ve got two critiques. First, cut Arid Archway and play Echoing Deeps instead. You’re gonna consistently have surveil lands in the yard from your first few turns, which means it’s always a hit, unlike the Archway. Second, rather than playing Iridescent Vinelasher, which is susceptible to removal and can be punishing if drawn too late, just play one of our X spells that can immediately win the game, and accept that you have to wait a turn between the combo and the kill (on account of the lands being tapped). I’ve found a handful of options for this slot, mostly familiar and with their own downsides. Outrageous Robbery and Dread Summons are options to mill your opponent out, but probably require too much mana. Goldvein Hydra and Shivan Devastator are hasty X/X threats, but can just be killed. Song of Totentanz goes wide to dodge removal, but could get swept. Exsanguinate is a great option, because it’ll replenish your life, BUT I think the even better option is Worldsoul’s Rage. It’s a Fireball that can also restart the combo and/or serve as removal if needed!
Yeah. Gotta get 2 greens and/or 1 black first, maybe an untapped to get one of your permanents out faster. But when you're just tossing lands out for triggers, getting at least 1 desert out should be a priority. You only need 1, because then the arid archway can just bounce it, then the next arid archway can bounce the previous arid archway. but yeah.
I feel like this deck should have a one-of World Souls Rage, just in case you run through literally every land and can't win with vinelasher, you can just blast them with all your mana. Plus if you have to use it for less than lethal, it still puts lands into play to ping with vinelasher and potentially start the chain again.
There's probably a less meme-y version of this deck. Overlord of the Balemurk, Aftermath Analyst, and Seed of Hope might be includes in that deck, and the new set has Quag Feast, Molt Tender, Carrion Cruiser, and Dredger's Insight are all potential looks. I would look at something like: 4 Aftermath Analyst 2 Overlord of the Balemurk 4 Quag Feast 4 Bloodghast 4 Hedge Shredder 4 Iridescent Vinelasher 4 Dredger's Insight 4 Molt Tender 4 Hedge Maze 4 Conduit Pylons 4 Lush Portico 4 Underground Mortuary 4 Shadowy Backstreet 4 Undercity Sewers 3 Raucous Theater 3 Commercial District
Only if you have the 2 mana open to use flashback. The turn 5 plan only leaves you with 1 mana open and only if your 5th land drop was untapped (colorless). Meaning it's a whiff on that turn.
what about survail lands plus hedgeshredder as a ramp package? play a "normal" deck with a high 20s land count, and then every land drop with hedgeshredder out plays lands until you find action.
I tried it and it felt horrible - you have a 66% chance of milling your wincons instead of drawing it which feels bad. Also you have 7 lands in hand at the end of the turn, because if you mill a non-land, you draw the next card, which is most likely a land :/ sadly not good
Is the BO1 hand smoother increasing the odds of a Vinelash/Shredder in your opening hand? Also, I'm sad we didn't take a detour to the hypergeometric calculator.
My understanding is the smoother only cards about the number of lands in your opening hand and deck. If anything it's probably bad for our deck since the algo probably thinks we want a hand of all lands since we're playing so many in the deck.
It's a shame Banefire isn't standard legal. If it was, you could get away with only running 1 or 2 of them, use the surveil loop to find them, then untap on your next turn, and unload an uncounterable unpreventable 20 damage to your opponents face using all your mana.
go down 5 survival lands, add 4 spelunking and 1 exsanguinate. on turns you play spelunking you can try to go for it twice. and exsanguinate give you another finisher to use the mana
You probably always want to play the Shredder first, because playing the Vinelashers the turn you combo would dramatically reduce your opponent's window to interact with them. Trying to curve out normally makes sense, but here you can't combo until you can play a land with Shredder in play anyway. I also don't approve of surveiling if you have the combo in hand because once you start comboing you actively want as many lands between you and your next nonland as possible.
maybe as a backup wincon , would just be a fireball style card? so you just surveil 20 lands into play then cast fireball the following turn (maybe worldsouls rage as a 1 of)
Mana Flood: ❌
Game Plan: ✅
i can picture drake in my mind as i read this
Now this is Against the Odds. The best part is casting the 2 spells isn't even super easy because so many are off color or single color lands.
The colors aren't that difficult. You have 16 per color directly, and 8 that can produce any color for 1 more mana. You also can surveil lands with the wrong color away, while keeping the correct colors, if you are short of correctly colored mana after the mulligan.
Yeah, it's impressive that a deck can play 52 lands and still get mana screwed lol.
Your opponent that was emoting about your mulligans doesn't understand Magic. If someone sits and thinks about each hand but eventually tosses them away as they mulligan down to 4, you know your opponent is gonna struggle. If your opponent snap keeps at 4 after immediately tossing 7, 6, and 5, you've gotta brace yourself, 'cause they're definitely playing combo and almost certainly have exactly what they need.
Especially if this was Historic where Minion of the Mighty exists. It's actually arguable to take a mull if you're on the play just to see how quickly your opponent mulls. If they mull quick you might want to keep mulling to hit removal for Minion.
This happens so often with "opps all __" strats, so many arena playes don't see this comming, and I think thats one of the best parts of playing these type of decks.
It's also possible they were emoting because they were excited to be playing against Seth, but that's just the optimistic in me lol 😅
@@DonovanPresents I straight up have the "sweating" emote when someone just Pops mulligans immediately because i know im about to be 2 turned by a goblin charbelche, Mighty, or some other outrageous combo.
I can’t believe I’m watching this early enough to not have every Arena player running this deck.
When did arena players start using rare wildcards on lands.
56 rare wildcards for a 15% winrate meme deck. don't think it'll get popular lol
Downside: godawful cost in rare wildcards.
Upside: I have already got some of the surveils crafted, and a meme deck like this might be the excuse to round out the whole set?
I've even got the Vinelashers, and I've probably got the hedge shredders from a ton of DSK drafts.
@@BobardeZanzibar I'm trying to get enough rares for my cats deck as a f2p player, meanwhile seth:
This one might be janky enough that people don't pick it up.
Late Night Goldfish Gang
Goldfish After Dark new channel?
Ahem,
"Gang gang"
SaffronOlive after hours
I just drank some black tea and it’s like 11:45 pm. Idgaf lfg
Yeet
The surveil land Hedge Shredder combo can technically find a one-of spell anywhere in your deck “Treasure Hunt Style”. You could do something like find Villainous Wealth, with X being every land in your deck.
I did a Scryfall search looking for X spells and found a couple ideas:
- Doppelgang could do something spicy at X=3, but that does take 11 mana. Make three copies of a vinelasher in play, then three copies of two more lands, so you have 4x vinelashers triggering 6 times for 24 damage?
- Exsanguinate could just X=whatever you can do, and either drains for lethal or maybe buys you the life/time to go one more try.
- Song of Totentanz can just make a ton of rats and swing, basically Rat Fireball. If that doesn't get them, you can probably swing again the turn after if they don't wrath.
- A sufficiently large Genesis Wave might hit every piece of the combo all at once. Every card in the deck is a hit, most of them are 0 mana value, and 4/8 of the nonlands are mana value 1. Green Sun's Twilight is probably a worse version of this.
- Valgavoth's Onslaught for like X=4 or greater might do something, almost certainly binning four lands at once and maybe digging you into a vinelasher (try to hold up a black to flip it).
I think 1-2 Genesis Wave is probably the best of those choices.
This seems like a super reasonable plan B. Maybe you cut like 2 of the worst Surveil lands and go 50 lands, the combo, plus 2 Villainous Wealth? Sure the combo gets less consistent but you have a backup plan should plan A fail for whatever reason
You should also play something like a Cache Grab. With that you mill like 3 surveil lands and fizzle a lot less this way when your Shredder is in play. And it helps finding them.
Opponent at 37:52 probably just recognised the name and wanted to send a little love
Oh no, all of those Commander tier lists have driven Seth insane.
52 surveil lands but every time seth says "surveil land" it gets faster
I know it adds a whiff but a one-of dopplegang seems like fun in this deck!
Yeah, the only options you can cut are...
Lands -> increases whiff rate
Vinelashers -> decreases chance of drawing your wincon
Hedge shredders -> increases mulligan rate
Nothing -> a little of all 3 by increasing deck size
The upside is that if you have a vinelasher, and you whiff on a doppelgang, you win the next turn.
Imagine a 1 of of dopplegang in this deck
DAWG i was just about to comment this😊
Same Brain 🧠🧠
Awaken the Woods, Genesis Wave.. Even Green Sun's Twilight. Just something to dump mana into if you combo'd off with the hedge shredder, that.. Well, probably wins the game.
Value go Brrrrrr
Valgavoth's Onslaught can act as a mana sync, a way to put multiples lands on the same turn to avoid whiffing, and helps find the Vinelasher that you can transform in response to the Hedge Shredder triggers.
Watched this instead of going to bed. Worth it
brooo you have the best meme decks. I do have the surveil lands for this so I finished the deck. it doesnt win more than 30% or so but its really funny when it does. lol and these lands besides are really REALLY good, theres a reason theyre expensive in paper.
One card I added for fun, 2x of, is the blue room fractured realm. it doubles triggers from ALL your permanents -- reducing the chances you whiff, you get 2x surveil triggers so you can jump over a nonland that would normally break the streak. and it also doubles the ping damage triggers LMAO.
epic meme deck
25:07 what about a single copy of Worldsoul's Rage? Maybe cut 1 vinelasher.
Another idea: replace the remaining 3 vinelashers with 3 Tocasia's Dig Site. It's not a surveil land itself, but it can restart the surveil loop with its activated ability. The idea then is to just find the single Worldsoul's Rage with the surveil loop and cast it the following turn.
a one of or two of Worldsoul's Rage could be good. Would help burnout the opponent from the spell itself while also getting more surveil lands onto the battlefield if you do whiff
"This is getting... Mathematically unlikely." 😂 love it
You know watching that game where you milled yourself down to like 20 cards finding a Vinelasher and was worried about whiffing, I'm wondering if a card like Worldsoul's Rage would make the deck a little better. Not that the deck isn't funny as it is you know, but flinging a Fireball at your opponent's head for like 40 is pretty great too.
Oh damn, that's a fun pick. I don't think he usually has many lands in graveyard but emptying the hand of lands and any early surveiled away is still pretty punchy.
I was thinking Genesis Wave, or Valgavoth's Onslaught. Wave does a bunch of lands and gets a bunch of surveil triggers to dig super-deep if it doesn't hit enough to win, and Onslaught will manifest a lot of power onto the board while also putting a lot of lands in the graveyard from the library.
I had the same thought. I think it would be really good because the second part of the ability would also act as whiff protection even if X isn't enough to finish the opponent
Much funnier option: Outrageous Robbery. I initially thought it'd be worse than Worldsoul's Rage, but if opponent removed Hedge Shredder you have to already have 22+ mana to win with Worldsoul's, and huge Outrageous Robbery might win with less, considering your mana advantage.
Magic being played just as Richard Garfield intended
1x world soul rage might help. If you draw it when combo-ing you can get your early game surveils back and continue the chain with a little damage boost
Seth: Premier Surveil Land Pilot of the Format.
This deck made me miss Tasha's Hideous Laughter.
Re: scry lands, they have existed on the client for a lot longer, so it is likely that players have more of them, especially because they were in both core sets and theros back in the day
I remembered shredder deck of yours and was checking the list yesterday... and saw this now! Thanks :)
Ah, Nilbog Belcharcher, a classic.
You also can swap Vinelashers for Worldsoul's Rage to bypass creature removal (but will be a turn slower)
This deck should be called 52-Card Ping Ya
kept watching the 1st match so I'd see Seth's face once he realized that nothing goes into the graveyard once Valgavoth is in play.... lol
I wonder if this deck wants a copy of Exsanguinate in it to "tutor up" with Hedge Shredder?
If you want to go really crazy, a version of this deck in Historic could run some number of Enhanced Surveillance (1U Enchantment, you look at +2 cards when surveiling, sacrifice to shuffle your graveyard into your library). On the one hand, it dilutes your deck by adding more nonlands. On the other hand, your lands now have Surveil 3, meaning that they're WAY less likely to whiff and you've got a better chance of digging for pieces before you combo off.
The deck could also play around with spelunking to try and get the exsanguinate kill right away.
I dug around looking for fun one-ofs, I think Genesis Wave might be the play. Every other card in this deck is a permanent and most of them are 0 Mana Value; so even X=4 or X=5 slams four or five lands into play and surveils deeper.
Valgavoth's Onslaught for like X=4 creates 24 power on-board in a single spell and almost certainly bins 4 lands, while also maybe finding your vinelasher if you don't have one in play already. If you can hold up 1 black mana to flip a face-down Vinelasher, full send.
@@51gunner I like Onslaught cause Genesis Wave as the bottom card kinda feels like 💩 and there's a good chance you're Domain opponent is side boarding out all their sweepers
This deck needs a single dopplegang as a backup
There is 1 temple in each of the new player decks, I absolutely run them as a budget option. You can also roll them as ICRs even though you can't actually open them in Foundations packs.
People play temples because everyone got 1 temple of each color for free when foundations came out as part of the free decks
Edit: also I think this deck should play 2 worldsoul's rage instead of the vinelashers, as that would mean we're not reliant on the hedge shredder for a turn, and the triggers from putting all the lands in our hand/graveyard into play would more or less make it guaranteed that we'd find the other worldsoul's rage.
Also if they open Foundations they will eventually open more. And you probably run temples over gainlands
@@MatthewProctor Temples come in the "starter set" kit from Foundations, you can't open them in actual boosters.
I was so confused, then I noticed the hedge shredder and laughed my ass off
Been loving these late night uploads😊
This deck is a fever dream and I love it
You mentioned maybe running some cards to make use of all the mana, but you don't want any more cards in the deck that aren't surveil lands. Have you considered just...not running the Vinelasher? Or running fewer than 4? Exanguinate is legal in standard right now. It can't crew the shredder like Vinelasher can, but it doesn't fold to a pair of removal spells. Could try a 2/2 split
edit: also it doesn't run the risk of running out of lands. Even if all your exsanguinates are at the bottom of the deck, every land ramped with hedge shredder is damage into the exsanguinate when you cast it.
Or even better than exsanguinate: Worldsoul's Rage, since it lets you play more lands, potentially surveiling you into more Worldsoul's Rages.
It's kind of wild all the surveil dual lands were in a single set.
This is an amazing puzzle. This is why I love magic deckbuilding. I wish I had better ideas, but some of these could be good (but not all together, you can't put too many of these in the deck or it'll ruin your plan).
Colossal Rattlewurm isn't a full wiff (since you can exile it from your graveyard), and if you have some in the graveyard early, it can be used to help fight past wiffs at instant speed (find a pylons and put it into play).
Buried treasure, like colossal rattlewurm, isn't a full wif either, but activating it only finds your next vinelash, buried treasure, or hedge shreder. Though it can act as a way to get hedge shredder out a turn earlier.
think twice milled before playing hedge shredder can reset the top of your deck, but it isn't worth it.
Eerie soultender isn't a full miss (can exile from the graveyard to reanimate), and is great to cast or reanimate with another copy of itself, if you have the mana.
Faerie Dreamthief is a similar to eerie soultender, but isn't great.
Maybe have fewer vinelashers and use echoing deeps as another surveil land, assuming you milled some before you played hedge shredder. Having 4 vinelashers only hurts the math. And echoing deeps is another copy of a surveil land.
One copy of Jace the perfected mind is a source of wfi, but if you get it, you can guaruntee milling your whole deck. One copy might be worth it. No more than one.
One or two copies of the Tale of Tamiyo, or even replacing vinelash with the tale of tamiyo and with a storm finisher might be fun, though doesn't solve any problems.
this is SUPERB
First thing I thought of to add was some kind of “play two lands a turn” effect permanent. Let’s you ramp up to the Hedge Shredder easily, and gets around combo fizzle. Don’t remember if any are in standard right now though.
there's loot for 3 mana. its other ability might be useful too.
I hate that Arena doesn’t have a chat like MTGO. I would love to see opponents reacting to these types of wins.
Tempels some people still have from earlier arena days and we got some for free through the base decks everyone gets. I would love to spend some wild cards on Surveil lands but I needed things like the Talents to even have cards that compete.
The easiest way to get them though is quick draft in Karlov Manor since the computer doesn't pick them as quickly.
Beautiful! Jank like this is what makes Magic magic.
You can replace Arid Archway with Echoing Deeps. Arid Archway whiffs if you don't control any of the 7 other deserts, while Echoing Deeps whiffs if you play 4 surveil lands and hit Hedge Shredder, Vinelasher, and/or Deeps on all 4 surveils in the first few turns
Oh yeah, that's a good call. Probably more consistent as a surveil land since getting lands in the graveyard is super easy.
you are a smart axolotl!
I think The Tale of Tamiyo might make this deck way more unlikely to fizzle. The only way it could fizzle with the Tale is have two nonlands in a row
Noe, this is the jank I like to see. Behold the Invasion of Anchovies.
Hearing Seth talk about Zombie Hunt, I'm not sure he understands why this deck has a lot more potential.
It all comes down to cantrip theory. Because you're able to surveil things away so aggressively, you are getting 2 cards closer to your payoff every single turn. Imagine a combo deck drawing an extra card every single turn, that would be insane! Where this list falls is that the actual combo is just too easy to disrupt.
I believe, if you can find something better to do with this engine, you might have a shot in Pioneer, Modern, and maybe(!) even Legacy! (Oh god, imagine including fetchlands into this math
🤯)
This is why I will always be sure to be subscribed to your channel. I LOVE JANK!
This is the greatest deck I’ve ever seen
Name of this deck?
52 card pickup
I feel like there are so many possible builds of this deck. With spelunking, you can make so much mana so quickly. With a hedge shredder in a fairly normal deck, you are guaranteed to draw action every time you play a land.
My favorite interaction would definitely be dredge though.
What an amazing deck, this is hilarious. Love your work Seth!
THanks!
Ah yes this is the kind of deck building I subscribe for.
Shredder first, so you can crew, attack, trigger. Cmon Seth, whataniya dude, huge punts.
What about a single copy of Worldsoul’s Rage? Finding one early gives you another few looks for a Vinelasher if you hit Hedge Shredder 2 turns of digging in a row, and finding one after digging through half your deck could potentially win the game next turn.
I think a playset of Cache Grabs might be worthwhile, alongside one or two of a big X spell like Worldsoul’s Rage. It would increase the whiff potential, but streamline the ability to close games
Companion hedgeshredder if you have 50+ lands would be a great idea.
Having thought it over and examined the standard card pool, I’ve got two critiques. First, cut Arid Archway and play Echoing Deeps instead. You’re gonna consistently have surveil lands in the yard from your first few turns, which means it’s always a hit, unlike the Archway. Second, rather than playing Iridescent Vinelasher, which is susceptible to removal and can be punishing if drawn too late, just play one of our X spells that can immediately win the game, and accept that you have to wait a turn between the combo and the kill (on account of the lands being tapped). I’ve found a handful of options for this slot, mostly familiar and with their own downsides. Outrageous Robbery and Dread Summons are options to mill your opponent out, but probably require too much mana. Goldvein Hydra and Shivan Devastator are hasty X/X threats, but can just be killed. Song of Totentanz goes wide to dodge removal, but could get swept. Exsanguinate is a great option, because it’ll replenish your life, BUT I think the even better option is Worldsoul’s Rage. It’s a Fireball that can also restart the combo and/or serve as removal if needed!
Game 1 was so crazy. I thought it was going to happen, dang valgovoth.
Live from New York, it's Against the Odds!
Genesis wave would go hard in this
You should definitely try to play a desert early when you can so you have one less potential wiff
Yeah. Gotta get 2 greens and/or 1 black first, maybe an untapped to get one of your permanents out faster. But when you're just tossing lands out for triggers, getting at least 1 desert out should be a priority. You only need 1, because then the arid archway can just bounce it, then the next arid archway can bounce the previous arid archway. but yeah.
Omg I chuckled so hard when I realized the game plan.
Love the late night vig Seth :)
I feel like this deck should have a one-of World Souls Rage, just in case you run through literally every land and can't win with vinelasher, you can just blast them with all your mana.
Plus if you have to use it for less than lethal, it still puts lands into play to ping with vinelasher and potentially start the chain again.
Oh I think this deck benefits from the hand smoother, youre more likely to draw a non-land on arena than you would in paper.
This deck is going to be insane when power creep gives us untapped Surveil Shocklands
lmao cya in 2045
There's probably a less meme-y version of this deck. Overlord of the Balemurk, Aftermath Analyst, and Seed of Hope might be includes in that deck, and the new set has Quag Feast, Molt Tender, Carrion Cruiser, and Dredger's Insight are all potential looks. I would look at something like:
4 Aftermath Analyst
2 Overlord of the Balemurk
4 Quag Feast
4 Bloodghast
4 Hedge Shredder
4 Iridescent Vinelasher
4 Dredger's Insight
4 Molt Tender
4 Hedge Maze
4 Conduit Pylons
4 Lush Portico
4 Underground Mortuary
4 Shadowy Backstreet
4 Undercity Sewers
3 Raucous Theater
3 Commercial District
Idk why, but the W/L percentage at the end sent me
As a Treasure Hunt enthusiast love the deck.
Also, Invasion of Anchovies? I'd expect Crim to call it that before Seth.
I'm not usually this early, but I was surveiling mtggoldfish videos.
I've slowly been collecting the standard lands... ig this is a reason to go for the surveils LOL
Does anyone know how many Surveil Lands are in this deck?
I can't count that high.
Now THIS is some good Against the Odds
You are THE only magic player that when you say "sure" it actually sounds natural and doeant annoy me LOL idk why i hate it so much but i do
If you can attack with hedge, you should do the hedge first, you can use your summoned sick mons to pilot it and mill more
This deck could play otherworldly gaze. It's not a wiff if you surveil it, and it gives three surveil stacks even if you mill it.
Only if you have the 2 mana open to use flashback. The turn 5 plan only leaves you with 1 mana open and only if your 5th land drop was untapped (colorless). Meaning it's a whiff on that turn.
Enjoy it! After playing with it a bit, what do you think of Worldsouls Rage as a back up win con?
what about survail lands plus hedgeshredder as a ramp package? play a "normal" deck with a high 20s land count, and then every land drop with hedgeshredder out plays lands until you find action.
a single cut // ribbons would be fantastic in this deck, to dump all that mana as a backup plan
Seth you're the goat. That was incredible lol
A second zombie hunt has hit the mana curve
This is the kind of deck would succeed with a tale of tamiyo.
I tried it and it felt horrible - you have a 66% chance of milling your wincons instead of drawing it which feels bad. Also you have 7 lands in hand at the end of the turn, because if you mill a non-land, you draw the next card, which is most likely a land :/ sadly not good
Oops (almost) All Lands.
Is the BO1 hand smoother increasing the odds of a Vinelash/Shredder in your opening hand? Also, I'm sad we didn't take a detour to the hypergeometric calculator.
It would be increasing the odds. But only on the opening hand, not the mulligans.
My understanding is the smoother only cards about the number of lands in your opening hand and deck. If anything it's probably bad for our deck since the algo probably thinks we want a hand of all lands since we're playing so many in the deck.
Winning with 52 lands is super easy, barely an inconvenience.
Ryan George references on MTG channels are tight!
Seth did a backflip, broke the bad guy's deck and saved the day!
Seth, you should stack your triggers so al the landfall trigger all at once
How many surveil lands though??
yes
I think in most of the games you lost, you usually untap after a whiff with a fuck ton of mana. Imagine running fireball or even a dopplegang.
This is sublime!
Brilliant. Art. Incredible.
It's a shame Banefire isn't standard legal. If it was, you could get away with only running 1 or 2 of them, use the surveil loop to find them, then untap on your next turn, and unload an uncounterable unpreventable 20 damage to your opponents face using all your mana.
go down 5 survival lands, add 4 spelunking and 1 exsanguinate. on turns you play spelunking you can try to go for it twice. and exsanguinate give you another finisher to use the mana
I would also play hedge shredder first because artifact removal is just less common, and you can hope they tap out into the vinelasher
this deck definitely gives me a bit of swans energy
You probably always want to play the Shredder first, because playing the Vinelashers the turn you combo would dramatically reduce your opponent's window to interact with them. Trying to curve out normally makes sense, but here you can't combo until you can play a land with Shredder in play anyway.
I also don't approve of surveiling if you have the combo in hand because once you start comboing you actively want as many lands between you and your next nonland as possible.
Exsanguinate is standard legal, so you can probably cut a Hedge Shredder for a 1 of that to be able to steal a win with 20+ mana
You could play a genesis wave or two as a way to draw your whole deck and play all the lands
maybe as a backup wincon , would just be a fireball style card? so you just surveil 20 lands into play then cast fireball the following turn (maybe worldsouls rage as a 1 of)
28:18 Invasion of anchovies is my favorite battle card