It's been several years but I did ask you if I should port, after I had given you what my goals were with what I have you said no don't port as the 863 heads will support those goals. I asked the builder his opinion and he separately said the same thing. He did lots of work on the 6.2 and bore & stroked to 6.8 and ended up at720whp which was more than I expected. So, I considered that good advice Thanks! Now I just lurk at chat as I have no project at the moment.
@richardholdener1727 . Lol. I am about to send my 243 zo6 heads off to be port and polished. I have the BTR hot rod cam with upgraded head parts to match. I have a& a supercharger (3.8 pulley) coming in shortly and need to order some headers. running a zo6 intake. I also have a 3.42 rearend to swap out with the 2.73. Will porting and polishing the heads do anything worth while at this point? (Sounds like no but just want confirmation) Running stock 2001 c5 bottomend. I am Thinking about meth inj to run cooler. If I said, here sir Richard, i am gifting you a 2001 c5 automatic with stock bottom end..... Any recommendations? Also Should i do anything to the heads at a machine shop? Any recommendations for the stock auto Also... if the engine blows up, i plan to swap all top end parts to a ls2 which will likely be bored and steoked. At that point I will be seeking 4 digit hp numbers I suppose I am asking you what you would do with given situation.
In your given scenario you have a supercharger that is the restriction of horsepower for your setup. If you improve the flow of the heads you will lower the restriction put on the air going into your motor. Is the gain of the ported heads substantial? Not likely to maybe. Given your supercharger has an efficiency rating at certain pressures usually called a compressor map Lowering the pressure will cause your supercharger to add less heat into the air. How much heat? Hard to say. You could go the route of trying to optimize everything and learn a lot in the process ( what to worry about and what not to) Or you could do a bare bones setup and get it up and running. My recommendation from a hobbies who has built multiple 600hp ls engines. Is don’t port the heads. My first turbo ls I ported the heads and now I don’t even worry about it. Too much effort and not enough reward
Coming from the Nissan S-chassis world, never had a huge interest in LS engines, but watching you over the years, has showed me how interesting they can be. So many options. I know people love 6.0's but your videos have me thinking cost per HP, a turbo 4.8 running 10psi with a good cam might be the move.
If you want to see, I would not be surprised to see a 240 with an LS conversion on some video from the folks at 1320video. I don't think you would be surprised either.
I have a 2007 ranger with the dreaded 4.0l sohc. The engine needs removed for the timing chain tensioner replacement. Was thinking of having the heads ported and polished. Id like to twin turbo this engine for more torque. I see port and polish simply as a means to reduce drive pressure and psi while increasing cfm. Its 9.5 compression ratio. A smoother running vehicle. Id like to keep the stock m5r5 and 7.5" rear so no ambitious hp goals. I certainly agree that you should see how much you can get out of your engine NA before forced induction. New fuel, air filters, new or upgraded ignition, 1 range hotter spark plugs at maximum gap. Its amazing what quality synthetic lubricants in engine trans and dif did. Maybe I'll reach my goal with all of this. Maybe hire local dyno to fine tune. EXCELLENT CHANNEL! Subscribed!
They are worth good horse power on a na motor but engine masters proved that in boosted applications it didn't matter much 195 cc as cast 235 cc cnc ported made within 10 hp on a boosted motor
u hit a brick wall with some heads. uou command 75 lbs of boost and your make 43 because your heads don’t flow enough. i’ve heard of such thing as hurting a turbo motor with too big of heads as well
Hmmm... so from the sock heads 4.8 to turbo was a gain of 188 hp at 7.5 psi then from stock heads to trick flows at 7.2 psi gain 50 hp then add the btr cam gain 72 hp . So in all and im guessing if the 4.8 was ran NA with the trick flows and the btr cam that was good for 80 hp over the na numbers? Cant beat the numbers but im just trying to figuer the NA gains on the 4.8 because at 7 psi 646 hp that thing will be close to 900 at 14.
Just remember that the engine is often the cheapest part of the turbo ls build. You still needs a trans, converter, rear end, injectors, turbo hot side, the turbo, and intercooler, turbo cold side and everything needed to install
6.0's are pricing up, I think I'd go for that,, as long as you can afford to build it over time, to get your best deals for the above mentioned additions.
No one swaps those. Look at ls1tech they are maybe 1% of swaps. The Camaro is discontinued, the c8 has barriers to modification, the aluminum ones didn't come with power steering, you have to get fuel pressure way up for DI, they have a vacuum pump, rampant problems with camshafts failing, transmissions with no or little after market control options, etc. it's a worse platform overall.
Richard, could you do a test on crush bent exhaust vs mandrel bent? I don’t think it’s a huge difference, but a lot of guys swear there is. Would be great to see real life dyno results
Richard, I was curious if you have ever run a comparison between the same maximum lift at the valve, one from high cam lobe/low ratio rockers--the other lower cam lobe lift/high ratio rockers. Same total duration cams, basically one 'low lift' , one 'high lift' and using the same type of rockers with different ratios to give the same overall 'total' valve lift. The lift at the valve(and speed) would vary at different points due to the cam's lobe profile, as well as well from the rocker's ratio through their pivot. Like a 1.5 vs 1.7+ rocker arms, the more drastic difference the better. So would hp/tq vary, the curve, valve float / sensitivity to spring rate, or a change in stress on parts? Or would it all be a wash? 👉You keep testing, I'll keep watching💥
Love this!... and now a question do ported aftermarket higher flowing heads notably increase spoil faster or is it essentially just a wash? Cause either way i would imagine your still pretty much stuck at whatever the flow volume of exhaust is for spoiling. I guess I'm just wondering if you have ever noticed a drastic change in spoiling rate because of heads?
I wonder what my combination does I’ve never been on a dyno since my upgrades. Some say I’m in the 700-760hp range but limited by fuel so I have a triple pump setup now and after I finish the install I’ll be working on getting a tad bit bigger turbos. Setup is; 6.0 forged internal lq9 block 9:5:1, 30 over , ls3 CNC ported heads, agp twin turbos 54/56 .82 at 15-18 lbs of boost, id1050 injectors, meth at 7lbs of boost, big intercooler, comp cam turbo stage 1 and now I’m currently installing fore triple fuel pump with rails and all the goodies. I have stock ls3 intake manifold ported and rod mod but I’m going with BTR intake only because I’m in the middle of a wire tuck/ fuse box, Ecu and abs module relocate and I want to tuck the steam ports under the intake. I guess if I had a question it would be do you think I’d benifit from a bigger cam also? And I’m interested in an electric water pump but I’m not sure if that’s something I need.
Hello, I follow all your videos. Although I do not fully master English, I manage to understand almost everything. I have a 2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD LQ4 4.10 differential 4L80E transmission, I use it for work with a 4000lbs trailer and sometimes I tow 7500lbs. I have 243 heads to install with stock intake and stock exhaust. I would like to install a shaft that gives more power at low and medium revolutions without affecting fuel consumption. Please if you can help me choose what I need and if you sell it, I would gladly buy it from you. Thank you.
just asking because u say stay with the heads you have. e85 6.0(hopefully aluminum) or aluminum 5.3. hopefully i don’t break the aluminum blocks but shooting for 1500 hp single turbo. should i get ls3 ported heads?
you can't put rec port heads on a 5.3L (you can on a 6.0L), but for 1500 hp I would consider ported heads (after market would be better because they have thicker decks)
Unrelated, but I can’t seem to find any actual data online. Is there any power gain in a NA application to making the length from collector to X-pipe equal; is it worth the hassle for power or even sound?
Richard, at what point do you draw the line on throwing money at OEM Aluminum Cathedral Port Heads ? For Example, a Street Machine, 10.5:1 *Normally Aspirated* 4.8L/5.3L/5.7L (100HP/Liter Estimated Goal) ? Is it more worthwhile throwing (up to) $1,000 at your existing 706/862 *or* 821/823/799's _(CNC Porting, Valve Upgrades, Springs)_ or spending $700+ more to get an aftermarket As-Cast Set ?
Richard I've got a 408 with stock rec port heads and a ported LSA blower. Car made 600whp through a 4l60E on 9psi and pump 93 octane. Do you think it's worth the money and effort to swap to some either GMPP cnc rec port heads or any other aftermarket option or should I just bump boost and switch to e85?
Hey there everybody. Im in New Zealand. Looking at rebuilding my 5.7 LS1. Thinking 4"stroker with 3.9 bore (383)Ci. Port heads cam ect maybe ITB. Trying to stay N/A. Is 500Hp, 500Ft/lb goal too mych of a dream or possible with my recipe
@richardholdener1727 yeah, it's a daily street driver, at 100Kph (60mph) legal limit here, I'm sitting at 1600Rpm. So looking at low to mid range torque, hence the thought of under square engine, more stroke than bore. Would rasing the static compression ratio help. 11:1 or higher. Thoughts
@@russcole5685 understandable, look into Holdener's older videos and see what u can find for LS1 and other LS motors, ull get an idea for how the engines respond to certain changes and itll coalesce into an idea of what build u want to pursue
Have you noticed how nearly impossible it is to find a cold air intake (in my case for a 2005 GTO NA LS2) equipped with 102mm FAST LSXr intake & throttle body? You'd need 108mm hose to wrap around that TB, but the biggest you'll find in silicone hose, aluminum tubing, elbows, etc. is in 102mm I.D. (if you're lucky). How is one to support a big mouth LSXr upgrade with filtered reasonably 'cold' air?
GREAT WORK RICHARD, THANKS FOR EXPLAINING EVERYTHING. YOU TRUELLY HELP ALOT OF PEOPLE WITH THEIR PROJECTS
Every car enthusiast should be following you
Thanks for this info mate.
Your testing is invaluable to us
Helps with selection of products that will work rather than guessing what works.
It's been several years but I did ask you if I should port, after I had given you what my goals were with what I have you said no don't port as the 863 heads will support those goals. I asked the builder his opinion and he separately said the same thing. He did lots of work on the 6.2 and bore & stroked to 6.8 and ended up at720whp which was more than I expected. So, I considered that good advice Thanks! Now I just lurk at chat as I have no project at the moment.
NO NEED TO PORT WITH BOOST
@richardholdener1727 . Lol. I am about to send my 243 zo6 heads off to be port and polished. I have the BTR hot rod cam with upgraded head parts to match. I have a& a supercharger (3.8 pulley) coming in shortly and need to order some headers. running a zo6 intake. I also have a 3.42 rearend to swap out with the 2.73.
Will porting and polishing the heads do anything worth while at this point? (Sounds like no but just want confirmation)
Running stock 2001 c5 bottomend.
I am Thinking about meth inj to run cooler.
If I said, here sir Richard, i am gifting you a 2001 c5 automatic with stock bottom end.....
Any recommendations?
Also Should i do anything to the heads at a machine shop?
Any recommendations for the stock auto
Also... if the engine blows up, i plan to swap all top end parts to a ls2 which will likely be bored and steoked. At that point I will be seeking 4 digit hp numbers
I suppose I am asking you what you would do with given situation.
@@ufarkingiceholeseek a good therapist
In your given scenario you have a supercharger that is the restriction of horsepower for your setup.
If you improve the flow of the heads you will lower the restriction put on the air going into your motor.
Is the gain of the ported heads substantial? Not likely to maybe.
Given your supercharger has an efficiency rating at certain pressures usually called a compressor map
Lowering the pressure will cause your supercharger to add less heat into the air.
How much heat? Hard to say.
You could go the route of trying to optimize everything and learn a lot in the process ( what to worry about and what not to)
Or you could do a bare bones setup and get it up and running.
My recommendation from a hobbies who has built multiple 600hp ls engines. Is don’t port the heads.
My first turbo ls I ported the heads and now I don’t even worry about it. Too much effort and not enough reward
This is a real good info video.
Coming from the Nissan S-chassis world, never had a huge interest in LS engines, but watching you over the years, has showed me how interesting they can be. So many options. I know people love 6.0's but your videos have me thinking cost per HP, a turbo 4.8 running 10psi with a good cam might be the move.
If you want to see, I would not be surprised to see a 240 with an LS conversion on some video from the folks at 1320video. I don't think you would be surprised either.
I love the how much is it worth series.
Always great content Richard!
Please do these tests with positive displacement setups. Whipple, Magnuson etc.
I did it with a Whipple
I have a 2007 ranger with the dreaded 4.0l sohc. The engine needs removed for the timing chain tensioner replacement. Was thinking of having the heads ported and polished. Id like to twin turbo this engine for more torque.
I see port and polish simply as a means to reduce drive pressure and psi while increasing cfm. Its 9.5 compression ratio. A smoother running vehicle. Id like to keep the stock m5r5 and 7.5" rear so no ambitious hp goals.
I certainly agree that you should see how much you can get out of your engine NA before forced induction. New fuel, air filters, new or upgraded ignition, 1 range hotter spark plugs at maximum gap. Its amazing what quality synthetic lubricants in engine trans and dif did. Maybe I'll reach my goal with all of this. Maybe hire local dyno to fine tune.
EXCELLENT CHANNEL! Subscribed!
Do a 5.0 swap
You should try to get a set of the summit 210cc ls heads and see what they make for power
They are worth good horse power on a na motor but engine masters proved that in boosted applications it didn't matter much 195 cc as cast 235 cc cnc ported made within 10 hp on a boosted motor
the difference isn't boosted vs non boosted-it is na power gains then multiplied by boost
Woulda been nice to see the stock head ported...
u hit a brick wall with some heads. uou command 75 lbs of boost and your make 43 because your heads don’t flow enough. i’ve heard of such thing as hurting a turbo motor with too big of heads as well
Nice gains
Hmmm...
so from the sock heads 4.8 to turbo was a gain of 188 hp at 7.5 psi
then from stock heads to trick flows at 7.2 psi gain 50 hp
then add the btr cam gain 72 hp . So in all and im guessing if the 4.8 was ran NA with the trick flows and the btr cam that was good for 80 hp over the na numbers?
Cant beat the numbers but im just trying to figuer the NA gains on the 4.8 because at 7 psi 646 hp that thing will be close to 900 at 14.
My 2 cents is to go with stock or ported heads, depends if you're rebuilding the motor or just boosting it in the first place.
There is an LY6 6.0 core engine waiting to be picked up, where I work, thinking I should buy it, it's $750...
THAT IS THE SBE SHORT BLOCK WE MADE 1543 HP WITH TWIN TURBOS ON
Just remember that the engine is often the cheapest part of the turbo ls build. You still needs a trans, converter, rear end, injectors, turbo hot side, the turbo, and intercooler, turbo cold side and everything needed to install
6.0's are pricing up, I think I'd go for that,, as long as you can afford to build it over time, to get your best deals for the above mentioned additions.
Good episode Richard. Can you give the GenV LT’s a little more love though?
Hardly anyone owns those and they are far more expensive
No one swaps those. Look at ls1tech they are maybe 1% of swaps. The Camaro is discontinued, the c8 has barriers to modification, the aluminum ones didn't come with power steering, you have to get fuel pressure way up for DI, they have a vacuum pump, rampant problems with camshafts failing, transmissions with no or little after market control options, etc. it's a worse platform overall.
The cost just isnt there yet.
Headgames was debating this briefly with Flores this past week.
Richard, could you do a test on crush bent exhaust vs mandrel bent? I don’t think it’s a huge difference, but a lot of guys swear there is. Would be great to see real life dyno results
WOULD DEPEND ON FLOW NEEDS VS FLOW AVAILABLE
I had my 317 hand ported and flowed about 280cfm
I used ported 317s on the Big bang 6.0L that did 1543 hp
Good job
What is the AFR cover on the timing cover? 11:56
Richard, I was curious if you have ever run a comparison between the same maximum lift at the valve, one from high cam lobe/low ratio rockers--the other lower cam lobe lift/high ratio rockers.
Same total duration cams, basically one 'low lift' , one 'high lift' and using the same type of rockers with different ratios to give the same overall 'total' valve lift. The lift at the valve(and speed) would vary at different points due to the cam's lobe profile, as well as well from the rocker's ratio through their pivot.
Like a 1.5 vs 1.7+ rocker arms, the more drastic difference the better. So would hp/tq vary, the curve, valve float / sensitivity to spring rate, or a change in stress on parts? Or would it all be a wash?
👉You keep testing, I'll keep watching💥
I have not done that exact test
Love this!... and now a question do ported aftermarket higher flowing heads notably increase spoil faster or is it essentially just a wash? Cause either way i would imagine your still pretty much stuck at whatever the flow volume of exhaust is for spoiling. I guess I'm just wondering if you have ever noticed a drastic change in spoiling rate because of heads?
if it adds power down low-it helps spool
I wonder what my combination does I’ve never been on a dyno since my upgrades. Some say I’m in the 700-760hp range but limited by fuel so I have a triple pump setup now and after I finish the install I’ll be working on getting a tad bit bigger turbos.
Setup is;
6.0 forged internal lq9 block 9:5:1, 30 over , ls3 CNC ported heads, agp twin turbos 54/56 .82 at 15-18 lbs of boost, id1050 injectors, meth at 7lbs of boost, big intercooler, comp cam turbo stage 1 and now I’m currently installing fore triple fuel pump with rails and all the goodies. I have stock ls3 intake manifold ported and rod mod but I’m going with BTR intake only because I’m in the middle of a wire tuck/ fuse box, Ecu and abs module relocate and I want to tuck the steam ports under the intake.
I guess if I had a question it would be do you think I’d benifit from a bigger cam also? And I’m interested in an electric water pump but I’m not sure if that’s something I need.
you can max out those turbos with the cam you have
@@richardholdener1727thank you, perhaps I should be looking into some bigger turbos. Cheers from CT happy holidays
I heard you say "turbo" cam...come on Richard !
❤
706 heads worth the port and polish for a chopacabra cam and TBSS intake on a 5.3?
Hello, I follow all your videos. Although I do not fully master English, I manage to understand almost everything. I have a 2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD LQ4 4.10 differential 4L80E transmission, I use it for work with a 4000lbs trailer and sometimes I tow 7500lbs. I have 243 heads to install with stock intake and stock exhaust. I would like to install a shaft that gives more power at low and medium revolutions without affecting fuel consumption. Please if you can help me choose what I need and if you sell it, I would gladly buy it from you. Thank you.
any cam with alter fuel consumption if it makes more power
just asking because u say stay with the heads you have. e85 6.0(hopefully aluminum) or aluminum 5.3. hopefully i don’t break the aluminum blocks but shooting for 1500 hp single turbo. should i get ls3 ported heads?
you can't put rec port heads on a 5.3L (you can on a 6.0L), but for 1500 hp I would consider ported heads (after market would be better because they have thicker decks)
Unrelated, but I can’t seem to find any actual data online.
Is there any power gain in a NA application to making the length from collector to X-pipe equal; is it worth the hassle for power or even sound?
doubt you would see any
You have a store? I didn’t know that.
yep-richardholdenerperformance.com
Richard, at what point do you draw the line on throwing money at OEM Aluminum Cathedral Port Heads ? For Example, a Street Machine, 10.5:1 *Normally Aspirated* 4.8L/5.3L/5.7L (100HP/Liter Estimated Goal) ? Is it more worthwhile throwing (up to) $1,000 at your existing 706/862 *or* 821/823/799's _(CNC Porting, Valve Upgrades, Springs)_ or spending $700+ more to get an aftermarket As-Cast Set ?
Usually the "line" is at high high horsepower numbers as the deck thickness of the factory heads wont hold the pressure as well as aftermarket heads.
NA or Boosted?
@@richardholdener1727 NA
Hey Richard I am not sure if you got any but do you or know anyone with some aftermarket SBC cast iron heads like dart 200cc 49cc or other 200cc heads
Is there a reason you want iron over aluminum?
Richard I've got a 408 with stock rec port heads and a ported LSA blower. Car made 600whp through a 4l60E on 9psi and pump 93 octane. Do you think it's worth the money and effort to swap to some either GMPP cnc rec port heads or any other aftermarket option or should I just bump boost and switch to e85?
e85 and more boost-you have more than enough head flow
@richardholdener1727 much appreciated sir. It's been a debate in my head for a while now.
Hey there everybody. Im in New Zealand. Looking at rebuilding my 5.7 LS1. Thinking 4"stroker with 3.9 bore (383)Ci. Port heads cam ect maybe ITB. Trying to stay N/A. Is 500Hp, 500Ft/lb goal too mych of a dream or possible with my recipe
the 500 hp is easy enough, the 500 lb-ft will be difficult
@richardholdener1727 yeah, it's a daily street driver, at 100Kph (60mph) legal limit here, I'm sitting at 1600Rpm. So looking at low to mid range torque, hence the thought of under square engine, more stroke than bore. Would rasing the static compression ratio help. 11:1 or higher. Thoughts
He wont respond to "thoughts" 😅 however compression will help w power everywhere, or even better add a positive blower
@@crash5811 thanks. Trying to stay away from forced induction. Cost, extra plumbing, room in the engine bay ect.
@@russcole5685 understandable, look into Holdener's older videos and see what u can find for LS1 and other LS motors, ull get an idea for how the engines respond to certain changes and itll coalesce into an idea of what build u want to pursue
Need this test on Ford 4.6 2v
Have you noticed how nearly impossible it is to find a cold air intake (in my case for a 2005 GTO NA LS2) equipped with 102mm FAST LSXr intake & throttle body? You'd need 108mm hose to wrap around that TB, but the biggest you'll find in silicone hose, aluminum tubing, elbows, etc. is in 102mm I.D. (if you're lucky). How is one to support a big mouth LSXr upgrade with filtered reasonably 'cold' air?
RUN 4 INCH TUBING