Exploring a high voltage power supply
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- From the same range as another unit I looked at recently, this one has an open PCB power supply with a very retro, but good high voltage PSU.
Unlike many of the cheap eBay modules, this one hasn't skimped on components and pushed them hard. Instead it seems a logical and well thought-out design with the components kept within their ratings.
The filter across the transistor and complex feedback array to give fast transistor switching show that the person who designed this was knowledgeable in this area of design.
Current draw of this unit is around 100mA at 12V meaning it might be suited to use with a small solar panel in a remote location to keep cabins from going stale.
For those who haven't guessed, the unit is a vehicle ozone generator, which would actually be OK for freshening a stale vehicle interior, but might be a bit too strong for continuous use in a small vehicle cab.
The high negative voltage on the spikes causes a plasma discharge at the spike tips, and the charged air then gets attracted towards the positive plate, causing a surprisingly strong airflow with no moving parts. The plasma discharge causes oxygen molecules to break into separate oxygen atoms that can recombine temporarily as ozone and other molecules in the same process found in nature. These active components of air are a natural air sanitiser that has the ability to deactivate airborne contaminants like viruses, bacteria and spores. Although ozone is harmful in large quantities, it is safe at the levels found in nature.
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#ElectronicsCreators
Used car resellers use devices like this to get rid of smells left by the previous owners. It's not meant for continuous or while driving. They just throw it in for a few hours and let the ozone work it's magic.
Nooooooo, no "ONE MOMENT PLEASE" at 00:56, life = ruined.
You know when you walk up stairs and misjudge another stair and you get a weird lurch. I was expecting him to say it so much I felt a lurch in my stomach. XDD
It almost looks like the circuit is meant to last... who ever was designing this will be fired soon because of this review. XD
reason for layoff: panned obsolescence
@@NuclearTopSpot Or obsolete planning.
Sent to work at Wuhan bio lab.
This is really not true for most companys. I work for a german electronics manufacturer and we plan for a lifetime of around 20~ years
Thats just limited by needing to replace pretty much all capacitors and protective components after that time
@@BrosBrothersLP I am sure that is true, but that is Germany, where workmanship and quality is still valued over quick profits. To an extent that is true in many US made things as well. Not as much in Chine, where most things now seem to be made.
The spacing for creepage and clearance is very well done.
It would be nice to own a company & have big Clive complement the quality of your products. You know you're on the right path !👍
Clive is probably on a list by now: "No one needs that many ozone generators, we better keep an eye on him until we figure out what he's up to."
Here I go letting the cat out the bag again … Clive is a MI agent … between the MRE training …having a high function internet connection and web server while living in a “remote” island that doesn’t get full mail services … he is connected … you are a witness to government espionage in a public domain … the perfect crime … he is saving humanity and the UK way by crowd sorcery … drawing out us outlaw types generational knowledge and our best ideas!!! So ya he is on a “list” …. LARP
Don't joke about it, the amount of US mechanics who've had their door kicked in by the police/ATF for buying "too many oil filters" is staggering.... its only sheer luck that someone hasn't been killed in one of these raids.
I plan to secretly ozonate the house of lords so all their red robes go pink.
@@BigClive that is pure magic hahaha
@@BigClive"I plan to secretly ozonate the house of lords so all their red robes go pink" - just my thought here he reveals his communist inclinations. Ha ha ha
Imagine Dave Jones being this satisfied with a product.
Only if he got it for free...
No Worries.
Never
"a real bobby-dazzler!"
...is it just me or does Dave annoy others by trying to finish the sentences of every guest he has on. Just not needed. We know ur clever Dave.
These in depth explorations of everyday things are why I come here, keep up the great work
Nice to know that company like that still exists that have product engineered to last. Not just to work until in a year or two.
Gather ‘round... gather ‘round... new Clive video!!! Yay 😁
Another ozone generator!! Thank God!!!
I thought I was going into withdrawal without 10 videos about them every week.
😁😁 just kidding Clive. I enjoy all of your videos!
YAY!
FINALLY AN OZONE GENERATOR THAT'S NOT POTTED IN RESIN!
I hate when they put them in resin 😂
Yes
I love when you can get the driver to make a high voltage supply ⚡
@@Purple431 yes 👍
I read the title as "exploding", was very excited, then very sad.
Not that this isn't interesting, but... The explosion containment pie dish hungers for more.
It doesn't matter if the videos are similar. Just keep on making videos. I really enjoy watching your videos. Thank you.
There's something magical about hearing "green crustiness" in a Scottish accent.
Even better, there's an expectation of hearing phrases like that in different contexts, whether it's electrical or alcoholic.
..... Or, 'Get in my belly baby !'.
5:20 would be super cool to see this start oscillating on a scope ❤️
Love your videos, Clive. I have been into electronics for 50 years, partly due to my dad being a radar mechanic.
After watching Big Clive for ages I actually recognised the building blocks on the board and thought that’s a Cockcroft Walton Generator there, that’ll take the AC and make high voltage and when the schematic came out I felt a warm glow inside.
I am actually starting to understand what the doodles mean!
There’s a difference between between reading a schematic and actually understanding the ‘why have they done it like that?’
Long may you continue to reverse engineer stuff 🙏
Only seems to be available from the UK, and shipping to the US costs more than the device. Alas.
It does seem to be a UK thing. It's probably banned in the USA by California.
@@BigClive what's the best soldering iron made in the UK?
Ohhh, I love it when the manufacture stuff without ruining it with potting compound. 😊
When is an ionizer not an ionizer......when its an Ozone generator ! nice tear down, and another satisfied customer, the Green Band denotes 0.5% Tolerance, not, degradation of the paint from ozone , this backs up build quality...cheers.
It is highly unlikely that they used more expensive 0.5% resistors in a circuit like this where close tolerance is not necessary for correct circuit function. 5% tolerance resistors would be perfectly fine for operation of this circuit.
Also, if you look closely at the 4.7ohm snubber resistor on the PCB the multiplier band ,which should be gold, is distinctly greenish further indicating that the gold paint has degraded.
@@stephenbell9257 Maybe, but thats still a lot of Ozone if it can attack the paint, I have seen resistors in some pretty aggressive environment's and not seen just one band effected, I have seen all though, I will review the footage...cheers.
Old school, through-hole technology. So... beautiful... *sniffles* :)
Ah, i can see you have upgraded ur recording equipment, great success, have a good day sir. Just found ur channel, ill keep a watch from now on, so here's something for the algorithm
I have this model in my car, I no longer bother with air fresheners, it makes your car smell kind of like a hospital/sterile smell. Was impressed for the size so got my dad one for his car too. The only negative is the lead is soldered on, I would have preferred a removable power cord as you have to buy a 12v socket extender if you place it far from the socket.
I'm on a bigclivedotcom marathon and just got a new episode
While building a power supply. Already gave a 👍 I know it's going to be a good video
Loving these element-separating devices. Electrolysis in gas and fluids is greatly underrated.
Just to mention. I believe the input diode is in part to prevent the smoothing capacitor to smooth the whole 12V system. With the diode it does not need to smooth voltage drops when for instance the wipers are turned on or the brake lights come on. Keep up the good work.
Cars run at 14.8 volts. The 12 volt battery is only used to store energy for the engine startup.
@@snakezdewiggle6084 The cars voltage is generally referred to as being 12V. This 12V system powers all the electric equipment on board like lights, wipers, radio etc. During running of the car the power is delivered by the generator but over the same 12V system. And yes it is than a couple volts higher. So if the diode is not there the capacitor is 'trying to smooth' the whole system not just the ionizer. And if the the capacitance is not big this is not going to work when switching for instance the brake lights (non-LED) or while turning on the wipers. At the other hand i don't think the capacitor is needed as the ionizer will still work at the shortly lower voltage. And no capacitor than there is no need for the diode unless you want to prevent wrong wiring.
@@aamiddel8646 okay, if you say so. ;)
Very nicely analyzed, Clive, and as you say, a very nice little high voltage circuit. Thanks for an interesting look.
I really like the design of the transformer. Sectioning up the secondary to reduce HV stress on the windings.
It's a common approach. They tend to be reliable.
Probably a reasonable thing to use instead of a can to refresh your vehicle's aircon vents. Plug it in and run the engine, air system on recirculation with the windows up... give it 5 to 15 mins and then unplug it. Part of your car care routine, rather than for using it while you're driving.
Wouldn't it have a deleterious effect on any rubber bits and seals in the car?
I had one in my custom van here in Australia 1983...
It was very noisy with a constant "hiss" .
You could touch the pins with a buzzing noise till you made contact with it and at the same time touch your passenger (girlfriend) on the nose with a good electral cracking sound and electrocution..
Always got the show on the road...
A thing a beauty is a wonder to behold!
AvE
10n forms a tank with the primary (and feedback)
Would the cap not need to be in parallel for oscillation, I’m not sure how the 180deg phase shift would occur with that gain structure, I think it’s more likely to ensure the startup conditions are met by providing a kick from primary to the feedback that doesn’t depend on the feedback winding, it probably is almost out of circuit at the actual oscillation frequency... it’s definitely odd though, I’d have to simulate it... I’d bet it’s fairly clever whatever it’s doing because it doesn’t seem like one penny is wasted building it...
@@robertw1871 That cap isn't really about feedback at all. It's purely resonance. The primary and feedback are electrically one coil as far as the cap is concerned, because they are in series. The phase shift for oscillation is accomplished by the feedback winding and primary being out of phase by way of the center tap and the components hanging off the base of the transistor... Start up bias is provided thru the 1k and 39k.
That cap is mostly to stabilize operation; without it, the circuit will usually run, but will tend to be chaotic and lose some power to the instabilities, and operation is much more influenced by load.
The most basic version of this circuit that still works is a single transistor and resistor with a center tapped primary. The resistor goes from the feedback side of the winding to the base, and usually has to be on the low side (a couple-few k) to get enough bias to start it... But it generates a lot of extra heat in the transistor and even transformer, and changes frequency at the drop of a hat because there's nothing really defining it. It ends up running with thick harmonics and whatever frequency "makes sense" at the time as it relates to load, inductance of the transformer, and parasitic capacitance of the windings.
Speaking of stabbing meat with a spike we need more Big Clive's electric cooking, and distillation. What if you put a steak instead of ground meat product. Try to carbonate/distill absinthe ♥️
My memory may be (probably) dull by now but am thinking back to the "Cockroft-Walton Multiplier" method for step up. Those diodes look a bit familiar in their config. Interesting Nice description Clive. :)
It is a multiplier. Running at high frequency and at a high initial voltage, so less stages needed.
I love how Clive keeps saying "modern lead free solders". And I agree it does feel that way. But the RoHS went into effect in 2006. That's 15 years ago. ;-)
(Feel old now? I do)
Hell, I'm still using rolls of solder that I picked up in the 1980s!
Searched German eBay for “puremate”. It asked me if I meant “pure hate”.
So this is what it sounds like to have an expert explain something that is simple but also way over your head.
See, stuff like this really interests me, I rebuild magnetos for vintage & classic engines (everything from lawnmowers to vintage cars) so I wind high voltage coils a lot.
I’d like to make my own anti-burglar system for my workshop, loosely based on an electric fence unit, maybe running through an old 12v car ignition coil. I already have something similar using the coil’s own magnetism to run a vibrating contact (no transistors), but that’s just used to test old Bakelite insulators & often needs a flick to get the contacts moving.
Way long ago, when dinosaurs still ruled the earth, and I was about 11, I built an "electronic combination lock" from a kit. This thing drove a small relay. I operated it a few times, and it stopped working. The driver transistor for the relay got fried by back-EMF from the relay coil. I cannot remember the name of the company that made this little gem, but I wrote them after I fixed it, and suggested that they include a diode across the relay to keep the transistor from letting out the magic smoke. That was, oh, good lord, 50 years ago. Cripes!
Probably they used brass powder with glue for gold band and it oxidized to green, I have found quite few from salvaged electronics where that band has turned green._
I dare you relabel it "electric harmonica" and re-list it.
"for in-car use."
"Only dropped once."
"Once upon a time in the west" would have had a different outcome.
With a circuit like that I might have put the LED in antiparallel across the transistor base-emitter junction. It would clamp negative spikes which could otherwise appear at the base and more importantly it would light up only when the circuit is actually running.
It should be safe enough, I can't smell it from here. 👍 🤣
Exposure to ozone
Can cause eye, nose, throat and lung irritation, cough and shortness of breath.
May exacerbate chronic respiratory diseases such as asthma.
Is likely to increase hospital admissions and emergency room visits for respiratory disease.
Can also adversely affect indoor plants, and damage materials such as rubber, electrical wire coatings, and fabrics.
At extreme levels yes. But it also occurs in nature and is an essential part of air as an active component.
The gold band on the resistors turned green? Patina color of copper/brass is green too; appears as if the pigment oxidized.
Heh plausible
That's normal. Ozone is a strong oxidizer. Probably the soldiers will get quickly covered by SnO, the leads will get some iron oxide, the plastic on the copper winding will crack.
Ozone is a problem for rubbers.
Green *IS* a tolerated tolerance band color. It indicates a 0.5% tolerance
Would be fun seeing what the thing would do to the vehicle electrics if the metal cut through the wire insulation... :P
The cigarette lighter fuse of the car will blow.
@@s.hoffman7205 no, the current sustained by the secondary side is tiny, no way the fuse would blow.
It would arc and smell, but it's very low power.
It would be awesome if you could also go in dept of computer powersupply.
Like what differentiates between 80 Plus Gold with 80 Plus Platinum.
Though these powersupply's are super expensive so I don't know whether it would be feasible
I would say this is a Hartley oscillator of sorts with the inductors going to Vcc instead of GND to save on bias resistors. The base cap and collector resistor probably help with starting. The other stuff on the base is to get the thing biased into conduction with 1uF being a short at ac. Hate oscillator circuits!!! Lol
looks very old school, but with that it might be reliable.
It does look a good reliable design. I think it has a long history.
If that 10n was a bit bigger say 100n (between primary and feedback) I would have said it was to help with self resonance and take some stress off the transistor.
An Ebay search makes me think that this is the model "PM60." There seems to also be a model PM100. The company info on the PM60 has a UK address, so maybe this is better built, because it is not from China?
They all originate from China. They are branded for the resellers.
Fantastic! Press onward Clive!
I thought all these operated in pulse mode! I see that I was wrong.
Did you get a chance to measure what frequency the primary (at the collector of NPN) was running at?
I didn't check the frequency, but tens of kHz.
looks to me like a riff on the Royer Oscillator. the 10nF helps setup the resonant freq.
I just want to get a heart Icon from Clive
Here you go.
I saw "it's not potted" and I'm thinking... Should it be?... No, no it should not 😂 it is also not a unicorn
Nice reusable transformer for projects. I guess you could probably run a neon tube from that transformer with out the multiplier.
Lovely find. It's always a bit disappointing to open up a product and find the goodies potted in resin/tar/epoxy.
I had a look on ebay. Seems these are still there at a very reasonable price for the build. They seem to be mostly available in UK / Europe.
It's rebadged around the world. They seem to come from one Chinese manufacturer.
@@BigClive I'll see if I can find something similar. I quite like the circuit design of these
Great video Clive!
I ran an ozone generator in my bathroom and it corroded the chrome off of my faucet.
I wish there were affiliate links to buy the things Big Clive reviews. I want a car ozone generator and having one that Big Clive doesn't think is shit would be great!
Nicely built , but I really hate the smell of ozone
This PM60 Car Air Purifier Air Ionizer may be using a standard CCFL transformer.
It's a similar transformer to those used in CCFL drivers and some ignitors.
But I digress!! Haha 😹 you are Soo hilarious this was a great breakdown
They are silver bands on the resistors the ozone discolored them
how intriguing
Possibly designed to leave on while vehicle not in use to stop mould.
Clive, thank you for sharing. A lot of commenters are talking about this product being unavailable in the USA. I'm wondering how I can look it up? I've scanned the comments and not seen anything about a model number or manufacturer.
I think it may be sold with a similar number but different brand.
My first thoughts after the video was. Switch it over to solar and mount it to the dash. The lower power input of the solar can be put into a super capacitor to feed the ozone generator on and off. To keep the car fresh but not over whelming. What do you think?
I have been looking at small ozone modules and considering solar power for cabins.
Keep in mind the ozone is going to go after the rubber goods. Think of the foam behind the headliner. Too much ozone will likely start the interior disintegrating before it's time...
@@BigClive I'm a bit of an alternative energy fan. I even set up off grid heating and cooling for a small church. You might be surprised by how many different ways to produce electricity. With your knowledge, I'm sure you power your cabin like a palace.
Hey Clive, I have some old smart home equipment that our local ISP decided to not support after only a couple of years and replaced with Google smart home stuff. Would you like these to tear down? I don't want to see the go to waste!
Hi Clive, there's a new mini dishwasher called bob. Its got a uv cycle for sanitisation. The uvc tube is behind what looks like a plastic window inside the dishwasher, can you do an investigation to see if the uvc would actually get through the plastic?
Power supply wire pushed hard against edge of metal plate that can't be touched from the outside. I'm sure that's fine.
I think the 10nF capacitor its there to form the resonant circuit and determine the output frequency. I wonder how much RFI the circuit emits and at what frequency - has it got type approval ?
It has a missing capacitor... Please add capacitor and check output before/after?
Ok so I want to attempt to anodize titanium with a taser module...tell me if you think this would work please
Hi random person you don't need high voltage to anodize titanium. Go to the "thought emporium" channel and he has a video on the process. I'll give a brief summary:
Supplies needed
*Salt
*Water
*Large clear glass or plastic bowl or tote
*Carbon rod (or other suitable electrode)
*Variable dc power supply
Make a salt water bath hook the negative to the carbon rod submerse it in the water. Attach the positive lead to your titanium and then submerge it in the water. The voltage setting of the power supply determines the color of the anodization. Allowing you to select the color but it also means selecting the thickness of the oxide as these are related.
Apologies if I got something wrong it's been a few years since I've done this.
More than $50 US. Probably worth it.
Not too expensive here.
how many stages could be put on it clive use a buck\boost converter and a power tool battery to power it. OOOO electroBOOM would love this one.........
In theory with a Villard cascade like this you can use as many stages as you like. The voltage across each individual diode and capacitor won't go higher than the input voltage. In practice the limiting factor would be that the voltage increases with the number of stages, but current decreases. At some point the corona discharge could draw more current than the thing could supply and you'd get better results with a shorter cascade. Keep in mind that what Electroboom put in that wand of his wasn't one of these, but it's a similar idea.
The green bands mean that the resistors are 0.5% tolerance.
Very interesting. I'd love to see this on a circuit simulator.
Clive I know why they didn’t use a cheapie Chinese stuff. They wanted to protect there reputation and not have a failure after a short time.
According to the website, the PM60 "Ion output: MAX 100,000/cm3", whatever that means.
It's lots. I think they make these figures up. There are a LOT of air (gas) molecules in one cubic centimeter.
I enjoy your channel
Ooooooh, finally! NOT POTTED high voltage supply!
Hi ri run that one on my lived in motorhome amd i have no problem with it and after a week or so of running it 24 hours per day the stale smell started fading
When CuriousMarc is stuck he always asks Clive for help!
Only if he's doing it by covert means.
Seems like a trivial task to Dremel off two or three of the points if it produces more ozone than you like.
I like my ozone soft and bumpy.
The lower load might result in more activity from the others.
@@BigClive Ah. Well, perhaps an appropriately sized bleeder resistor instead? Steal away a bit of activity?
Turn it off when filling fuel.
And I prefer negative ions over negative vibes.
Perfect review...just bought one :) lol
@Eddie Hitler174448437567
I had to get mine from a different source. They don't ship any of their products to the Isle of Man.
Imagine BigClive running all his ionizers all at once 😉
Wow, wouldn't that be a gas. 😵
Instant ozone hole repair.
The ozone layer works by the continuous cycling between oxygen and ozone. You can't really just send more up.
@@BigClive Why send it up, when you can have your own? 😜
My room cleaning ozone generator runs at about 80 Watts into the high voltage. A little more with the fan.
Yeah it's a beast it will run you right out of the house in three or four minutes.
If the resistors are J/5%/gold tolerance band, I suspect there's copper in the paint. Copper + ozone = verdigris. I had never thought about this until now; it's good to know if you need to repair electronics that have been in corrosive environments.
Could the 10 nanofart capacitor between the primary and feedback windings help to set the frequency of the flyback oscillator?
Clive, isn't that a one and a half stage multiplier instead of the 3 stage you said? Am I missing something? I thought that one stage consisted of two caps and two diodes. The missing cap and diode also have places on the pcb as well, they are just not fitted.
Technically, yes.
I would very much like to see a DIY project (slayer exciter, tesla coil or ozone generator) with all custom components, using only the transformer from a unit like this. To be honest, i just want to convert a 220v plasma globe into a 9v mini slayer exciter, and have no idea how.
It would be easier to create a slayer from scratch.
I need one.
I’d love to see you probe it with the mini scope to see the frequency it oscillates at and how to vary the frequency by substituting components
There'll be an ideal resonant frequency for the transformer.
410 Is that 100µF 100V capacitor supposed to smooth the voltage of a whole vehicle ? Will it do any more of an effective job than a humongous lead-acid battery ? I'm puzzled that there isn't a resistor upstream of it to allow it to smooth the downstream side of the circuit.
Incidentally WTF is that whine on 12V car power supplies ?........or is it from the 240V inverter I was using - to power the laptop to feed music into the Aux in on the audio system.
The capacitor just acts as a local buffer to stabilize the supply.
Found the same device branded as Neotec XJ-600. In the product description, it says it can collect dust. Did you find that it does?
The dust collection is incidental to the operation. More of a nuisance on these units.