Given the poverty of the depression and the squabbling between the leagues themselves and local government, it is a miracle a lot of these clubs are still around.
Great research! Ted Whitton introduced the flick pass again in the 1950’s. The VFL eventually called it a throw & banned it. Sad for the Doggies cos they had the edge on the rest of the competition & didn’t win another flag until 2018.
Thanks! Would have really liked to explore the revival of the flick pass in that era, and how that developed into the modern handball through Barassi and Oatey's coaching, but that may have to be it's own video someday
@thegaz-man There's a really good video on YT on the history of the drop punt, personally I would love to see you do a video on the history of different techniques, like differences in coaching or rules that allowed for them.
The 30s and early 40s were the hardest years for the VFL and VFA. But it was also during this time that some of the greatest players at the time thrived during the Saturdays of the VFL.
Jack Dyer, the Colliers, the Coventrys and Keith Truscott are names that come immediately to mind for me. You keep impressing me with your deep knowledge of the game mate, always a pleasure having these chats!
It is interesting to think the VFL and VFA both played on the Saturday back then. When I grew up the VFA was only ever on Sunday and VFL round was completed by late arvo Saturday with one reserves match by VFL held back to play on Sunday arvo to go head to head with VFA on Sunday live tv coverage. Channel Ten for VFA and VFL on channel 7. I mostly watched the VFA unless my own VFL teams reserve team was on that Sunday. It is hard for me to imagine VFA with VFL all on Saturday. Certainly must have been closer to the league in standard in the 1940's for VFL stars to move over to VFA more often.
Speaking of Fuel Rations during the War years, Geelong had to abandon the VFL for 1942 and 1943 seasons due to the Japanese Invasion of Papua New Guinea during the most serious years of the Pacific War. Geelong was almost not able to return to the VFL in 1944 but fate was on their side when enough VFL teams allowed the Cats to return via lobbying, North Melbourne being one of the vocal teams for the Cats had to return. (from what I heard)
I did briefly allude to that in my Saints series, as the VFL's inability to fixture for an 11 team league led to St Kilda becoming the first and only team to be eliminated from the VFL halfway through a season (funnily enough, North disbanded halfway through a VFA season). Geelong would, of course, repay North by allowing Doug Wade to walk to them for free in the 70s thanks to the 10 year rule, guiding the Roos to their first flag.
Interesting history of the VFA during that time. Not much I knew about despite knowing more about VFL history compared to VFA history. In an alternate universe, maybe the VFA could have kept their flick pass as well as players go from VFL to VFA and back.
Sadly I think the lingering effects of the Victorian Football War hardened the stubborn self interests of both leagues - each league would rather defeat the other than work with them. WW2 undeniably killed momentum for the VFA as well. Would have loved to see what a split-code football system with open player transfers would have looked like, might have developed into a League-Union situation?
@@thegaz-man I used to go and watch Huddo back in the 70s in Hobart and he was a freak. How on earth does a bloke with no vertical, no overhead skills, no speed and a backside like a Kardashian even get a kick let alone be a goalkicking machine. Weirdly the game I remember most from him was a day at North Hobart where Bruce Greenhill kept him goalless.
The throw or flick pass is still a bit of mystery to me. I was watching a bit of 1961 grand final on some youtube a year or so ago and all of a sudden I detected Ted Whitten do some typ e of flick pass but hard to see how it done on grainy old footage. I am glad footy got past that era and fixed footy up as a spectacle by early 1970s. I do not think I would have grown in love with the sport to same extent if I grew up in those eras. I still have nagging feeling this era needs fixing too but not seeing where someone will save the sport to improve again.
For me, the flick/throw pass was just a crutch the league needed until the tempo of play got fast enough to ensure that every player had to know how to handball properly. I agree, I can't imagine it would have looked too pretty
The flick pass took advantage of vagueness in the rules as to what constituted a handpass. As the game became faster with more players playing on rather than taking a free kick (or mark) the flickpass facilitated fast ball movement as it was pushed (flicked) very quickly with an open palm out of the other hand. It could resemble a 2-handed throw & was useful if a player couldn't use his non-dominant hand. Not really a big deal when you see what passes for handball in some instances these days. The rule was clarified in the mid 60s so that the ball had to be clearly punched by a clenched fist. In that era teams only handballed 30 or so times per match.
The list @ 7:16 isn't quite right in that Vallence, Titus, Matthews & Collier had all retired from league football when they moved to the VFA. Jack Dyer was courted by Yarraville but didn't move; he later admitted he was using their interest to get a better deal from Richmond. The major guys in their prime who defected (without clearances) for more money were Todd, Fothergill, Nash & Pratt. At that time, Collingwood had a long-standing policy of paying every player the same amount, which cost them many players over the years. South Melbourne were undergoing a lot of internal upheaval that rapidly broke up the Foreign Legion team they built by attracting big money recruits. Although the Coulter Law supposedly limited match payments to £3 (and banned signing-on fees) the clubs got around this by having wealthy supporters give them extra (a version of a modern 'third party agreement') and, sometimes, a signing-on perk such as cash, a guaranteed job, paid-for accommodation, paying moving expenses, school fees etc.
Apologies about that, lost some accuracy in oversimplifying info there. I didn't realise how badly the era affected Melbourne, especially with losing a lot of stars to the war.
Given the poverty of the depression and the squabbling between the leagues themselves and local government, it is a miracle a lot of these clubs are still around.
It gets even crazier, half the league very nearly didn't survive through the 80s
12:40 Jesus, Ken Farmer saw the basketball background craze coming from a few hundred miles away.
Man could see the writing on the wall before the wall was even built
Was tempted to make a quick Pendles gag when I saw that article haha
Great research! Ted Whitton introduced the flick pass again in the 1950’s. The VFL eventually called it a throw & banned it. Sad for the Doggies cos they had the edge on the rest of the competition & didn’t win another flag until 2018.
Thanks!
Would have really liked to explore the revival of the flick pass in that era, and how that developed into the modern handball through Barassi and Oatey's coaching, but that may have to be it's own video someday
@thegaz-man There's a really good video on YT on the history of the drop punt, personally I would love to see you do a video on the history of different techniques, like differences in coaching or rules that allowed for them.
The 30s and early 40s were the hardest years for the VFL and VFA.
But it was also during this time that some of the greatest players at the time thrived during the Saturdays of the VFL.
Jack Dyer, the Colliers, the Coventrys and Keith Truscott are names that come immediately to mind for me.
You keep impressing me with your deep knowledge of the game mate, always a pleasure having these chats!
It is interesting to think the VFL and VFA both played on the Saturday back then. When I grew up the VFA was only ever on Sunday and VFL round was completed by late arvo Saturday with one reserves match by VFL held back to play on Sunday arvo to go head to head with VFA on Sunday live tv coverage. Channel Ten for VFA and VFL on channel 7. I mostly watched the VFA unless my own VFL teams reserve team was on that Sunday. It is hard for me to imagine VFA with VFL all on Saturday. Certainly must have been closer to the league in standard in the 1940's for VFL stars to move over to VFA more often.
Speaking of Fuel Rations during the War years, Geelong had to abandon the VFL for 1942 and 1943 seasons due to the Japanese Invasion of Papua New Guinea during the most serious years of the Pacific War.
Geelong was almost not able to return to the VFL in 1944 but fate was on their side when enough VFL teams allowed the Cats to return via lobbying, North Melbourne being one of the vocal teams for the Cats had to return. (from what I heard)
I did briefly allude to that in my Saints series, as the VFL's inability to fixture for an 11 team league led to St Kilda becoming the first and only team to be eliminated from the VFL halfway through a season (funnily enough, North disbanded halfway through a VFA season).
Geelong would, of course, repay North by allowing Doug Wade to walk to them for free in the 70s thanks to the 10 year rule, guiding the Roos to their first flag.
Interesting history of the VFA during that time.
Not much I knew about despite knowing more about VFL history compared to VFA history.
In an alternate universe, maybe the VFA could have kept their flick pass as well as players go from VFL to VFA and back.
Sadly I think the lingering effects of the Victorian Football War hardened the stubborn self interests of both leagues - each league would rather defeat the other than work with them.
WW2 undeniably killed momentum for the VFA as well.
Would have loved to see what a split-code football system with open player transfers would have looked like, might have developed into a League-Union situation?
Superb historical research again..........and minus the bullshit!👍
Thanks so much!!
188 has to be the highest amount of goals in any states leagues
Closest I've seen is Peter Hudson's 179 in the TFL in the late 70s
@@thegaz-man I used to go and watch Huddo back in the 70s in Hobart and he was a freak. How on earth does a bloke with no vertical, no overhead skills, no speed and a backside like a Kardashian even get a kick let alone be a goalkicking machine. Weirdly the game I remember most from him was a day at North Hobart where Bruce Greenhill kept him goalless.
Yes, Todd's 188 is considered the all-time Australian 'senior competition' record
The throw or flick pass is still a bit of mystery to me. I was watching a bit of 1961 grand final on some youtube a year or so ago and all of a sudden I detected Ted Whitten do some typ e of flick pass but hard to see how it done on grainy old footage. I am glad footy got past that era and fixed footy up as a spectacle by early 1970s. I do not think I would have grown in love with the sport to same extent if I grew up in those eras. I still have nagging feeling this era needs fixing too but not seeing where someone will save the sport to improve again.
For me, the flick/throw pass was just a crutch the league needed until the tempo of play got fast enough to ensure that every player had to know how to handball properly.
I agree, I can't imagine it would have looked too pretty
The flick pass took advantage of vagueness in the rules as to what constituted a handpass. As the game became faster with more players playing on rather than taking a free kick (or mark) the flickpass facilitated fast ball movement as it was pushed (flicked) very quickly with an open palm out of the other hand. It could resemble a 2-handed throw & was useful if a player couldn't use his non-dominant hand. Not really a big deal when you see what passes for handball in some instances these days. The rule was clarified in the mid 60s so that the ball had to be clearly punched by a clenched fist. In that era teams only handballed 30 or so times per match.
@@sentimentalbloke185 wonderful
The list @ 7:16 isn't quite right in that Vallence, Titus, Matthews & Collier had all retired from league football when they moved to the VFA. Jack Dyer was courted by Yarraville but didn't move; he later admitted he was using their interest to get a better deal from Richmond. The major guys in their prime who defected (without clearances) for more money were Todd, Fothergill, Nash & Pratt. At that time, Collingwood had a long-standing policy of paying every player the same amount, which cost them many players over the years. South Melbourne were undergoing a lot of internal upheaval that rapidly broke up the Foreign Legion team they built by attracting big money recruits. Although the Coulter Law supposedly limited match payments to £3 (and banned signing-on fees) the clubs got around this by having wealthy supporters give them extra (a version of a modern 'third party agreement') and, sometimes, a signing-on perk such as cash, a guaranteed job, paid-for accommodation, paying moving expenses, school fees etc.
Apologies about that, lost some accuracy in oversimplifying info there.
I didn't realise how badly the era affected Melbourne, especially with losing a lot of stars to the war.
WTF ia with the constant breathing sounds?! Unlistenable.
Cheers for the feedback, will try and reduce that in the future.