This did not come apart easily!
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2024
- An investigation of a generic Chinese illuminated latching panel switch, that ended up destroying it completely.
Usually I try to take things apart in a controlled manner, and then reassemble them after the video has been made. But not this time!
Keywords for finding industrial switches like this are - 22mm 380V panel
The phase to phase voltage in China is 380V and the standard panel cutout size is often 22mm.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:- www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of RUclips's algorithm quirks, allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty.
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Modern manufacturing. One-time snap together parts, no going back. If it fails in any way, buy a new one. I've worked with thousands of p.b. units in my industrial career. Allen Bradley was the best, but even they succumbed to the throw away concept eventually. Their older units were basically indestructible as far as service life goes. The Chinese unit you destroyed here is actually one of the better designs i've seen recently. Thanks for sharing.
I’ve worked as a trade school teacher and I’ve seen more mangled Schneider units than I can count. At least these won’t come apart as easily when kids use brute force on them daily 😂
Brown Boveri used to supply repair kits for the contactors, which were the contacts, the contact springs, and the terminals, plus the 2 laminated cores. Have had the contactors jam because the cores, after a few hundred million operations, tended to spread out at the contact surfaces, and jam in the housing.
@@jhsevs 👍👍👍
Usually I am against throw-away stuff buf IMO it makes sense here most of the time.
It is a 380V switch after all! So its not the best idea to repair it. Even expensive modules like Eaton, Schneider, Siemens are rarely more than 10 Bucks and they LAST. I have designed, maintained and repaired a lot of industrial test equipment in the last few years and have yet to see a failed button like this. I'm sure they can fail, but it doesn't happen often and its better to replace the whole switch module if it failed. (Not the switch, but the module in the back).
The only thing which I guess might be annoying is that maybe after 15-30 years the module might not be in production anymore (but a lot of industrial equipment is used much longer than 20 years). But even then - you just replace the whole panel mount switch with a new one. It might not fit 100% optically, but it will get the job done. 22mm Switches/Buttons/Indicators have been the norm since many MANY years (probably almost a century)
Looks like you need a set of external butt ended circlip pliers to help open things like these
The NO contact escaped unhurt
Well, it said "No" and we are civilized people here!
@@tomteiter7192 NO means no
Big Clive. Breaking things for science since 2008
Great to see mild violence in taking things apart. Remember EVERYTHING is a hammer unless it’s a screwdriver, then it’s a chisel.
This cracked me up. Thanks for the laugh!
I knew those fermented bananas would come in handy one day.
"I destroy it so you don't have to" Classic Big Clive phrase. When it comes to switches and buttons I love ones that give you a nice "clunk". That's my kind of fidget toy.
I destroy it so you don't have to --- but, we can still do it if we want ;)
I got one batch of those generic 'waterproof 12mm momentary buttons' that has a super satisfying click, and none of the other batches I've gotten are even close. Such a shame
Reminds me of the Middleman TV show: "Fighting evil so you don't have to!"
You successfully recreated the kind of one-way pile of bits that I used to as a curious kid, back in the day. Oh, the nostalgia! Thank you, Clive. 🙏
Whenever buying electrical stuff to play with, it's always a good idea to buy multiples, one to make and one to break as it were... :P
I was lucky, my grandfather had an electronics shop and gave us kids all sorts of spare parts to play with. Not the LEDs (too expensive) but lots of neon lamps. Yeah, I got zinged a few times.
I was pretty surprised to see an AC LED after I took apart an illuminated button. Never realized these things existed, and it makes perfect sense both for AC and DC. Just two structures wired in reverse-parallel in a single LED package - plain and simple.
Common solution but leds suffer from a too high reverse voltage.
@@robegatt not a case with two diodes in reverse parallel, the voltage at any moment will never be larger than the forward voltage of one of the diodes. Max reverse bias voltage is a few times higher though not that much in case of LEDs.
@@KeritechElectronics you are right, single led ac is bad
I’m not a fan of the flicker though. Those flicker at 100hz. Obviously better than 50hz flicker, but those bipolar leds aren’t smoothed, but I really wonder if it’s possible to smooth them a little bit somehow?
A choke or coil in series? A non polarized capacitor in parallel?
@@jhsevs The solution is to put 5 LED dies on a small PCB as a front, and connect 4 as a bridge rectifier, and the fifth across the output of the bridge. Thus you have 3 operating at any time, and it works on AC or DC as well, and 3 dies provides enough light to use as indicator. Cheap and robust, and Clive had these on the channel a few years ago.
I learned at an early age (like 6 years old) that's a lot easier taking stuff apart than putting it back together. Especially stuff not meant to go back together. All well, that LED wasn't bright enough anyway.
When I was a young child my parents started to buy small appliances for me to dismantle (clocks, radios, etc.) so that the family would have at least one fully-functional set for normal use! Everything (and I mean everything) got dismantled at least once.
I like that the tester has a "fun" button.
wonder what "fun" you get when it is pushed???? Knowing Clive, it probably has something devious though!
When I worked on the railway in the signalling department, we installed similar plungers on the platforms at Liverpool St station for Porters to use for closed doors and train ready to start. They were from Switzerland and we called them Squire 'D's' and they were stackable, so could mount multiple plungers together for extra contacts.
Is there anything more seductive that a nice, big, chunky button? Thanks for the invasive teardown to show us what's in these things!
Have you seen the eminent RUclipsr and electronicist "Curious Marc"? He is fascinated with gear left over from the Apollo programme, and has restored a lot of it. As you can see from old film of Mission Control, that equipment was full of big, chunky, illuminated buttons which lit up in various colours - sometimes two at once!
The only thing more seductive than a nice, big, chunky button is one labelled with "Do Not Press!"... :P
You could put a box on a pub toilet wall with electronics containing a very loud fart or woman's scream recorded inside. Afterwards you sit at the bar watching the red faces emerge.
@@twocvblokein red
The can opener on a Swiss Army knife makes a great spudger, specifically the can opening blade part (rather than the the screwdriver tip). It's even better if you make the blade angle a little shallower with a Dremel. It's not flexible but it's wedge profile is really good for wiggling into the joint of two halves of a plastic shell and gently working it back and forth around the perimeter until the item in question finally gives up it's secrets. A Spartan or a Pioneer, particularly the Pioneer is a really underated tool for opening objects that the manufacturer really doesn't want to be opened.
Need some reverse pliers to really "bear" down on these things.
I just love industrial gear/parts... I've gotten addicted to watching ebay listings and auctions for this sort of stuff. 😂
Thank you Clive for the awesome videos and live streams, Hope your getting lots of sleep and staying healthy! 🙂
My favourite part was when I thought "oh it's just like a plastic pen", and then you said it out loud.
And Green LEDs are usually the most visible since our eyes are most sensitive to green.
The calculations for two 75k, 1/2W resistors show a maximum of 387V, so they're running right on the edge of their maximum dissipation. There's no safety margin. Just hope the switch is not in a hot environment. 😮😮😮
It looks to me like the switch halves are ultrasonic staked, two pins fitting in two sockets. Before welding, this type of joint has interference of the pins and sockets. As vibration is applied by the ultrasonic welding transducer the pieces melt along the shear line between pin and socket , around their circumference, to bond them permanently. It's used a lot in low cost mechanisms. Disappointing that the switches themselves are sizzlers rather than snap action ones, the life may be low if switching high voltage high current loads. May last a while though if switch relay coils or similar low volt low current loads. A-B they sure aren't, but I imagine the price isn't A-B like, either. Thanks for the teardown. Cheers!
There are similar switches that have a large, exposed, latching push button. Add a box and socket from the hardware store to fashion a DIY Emergency All-Stop button, for about $10USD. It makes an important safety device for any DIY EE Hobbyist Bench.
Damn. Those thingamabobs were so hard to get to open up but at the same time held together by seemingly nothing that I started feeling kinship.
Those micro-switches are a fire danger.
All micro-switches, as per rules, must have a spring which close the contact with a set force, independent from the travel of the pushbutton.
Just buy good branded electrical components for a fire-free environment.
Thank you Big Clive, for all your dedication in showing the inner workings of good and bad technological devices.
Greetings,
Anthony
----> Me clicking lighting fast in the event that "The Vice Of Knowledge" will be making it's 2024 debut...
My thumbs hurt just watching this, ty for your sacrifice
I like that style of button with the lever release for the back, used them where i worked, except they were easier to remove the coloured lens to add a designator. and they had stackable contacts, though you could change the NC for a NO if you needed double NO contacts
Those diffusers were good for Letraset symbols too, so it was easy to produce a professional - looking panel with useful indicators.
Found your channel few weaks ago well so and now i came addicted and can't wait for another video!! 😅
We go through a lot of the 2 and 3 position switches like that. The nylon indexer has a very thin connection between where it is screwed in and the strong spring. That is the only part that breaks on the ones we use. Good thing they are relatively cheap and always in stock.
It seems some of the designers and manufacturers of electronic components have been viewing Clive’s channel, and have accepted the Deconstruction Challenge.
I actually enjoy it when you completely destroy things.
As you say "So I don't have to".
Quite literally, when I see you just wreck it to get it apart I say to myself "Thank you Clive".
Very destructive and very interesting brilliantly done Clive thanks 😊
Yeahp, this was a great panel modular switch ...... before Clive did his exploration...!!! Great video.
The way thats designed reminds me of the 4 position monolever I bought for my G920 wheel. I wired it up to a pi pico and whenever its actuated it does all 4 arrow keys depending on what position you push it. For headlights and turn signals in assetto corsa.
Idea: Ultrasonic Spudger 🤔
Oooh, I like this idea!
Those exist; they're great for cutting composite honeycomb along other things.
A certain guy carries around a sonic screwdriver, after all.. :-)
Bummer that the individual components are impossible to open non-destructively, but I do love how modular these switches are.
Thanks never disassemble one of these. Have used this type of switch single and double gang many times over the years and found them to be reliable. Yes brightness of the pilot light has been an issue at times, hence needed to install an additional separate brighte diode light when operating in a well lighted plantroom. Reliability otherwise was very satisfactorily. From what you just have showed us the brass terminal variation is likely better, less corrosion over time even though the screw and washer are steel.
You did not mention anything about the 15mA Chinese contacts. 😂😂😂
Hi Clive,
I have a totally unrelated question about new oil-filled space heaters:
To put it simply I bought a new one about a year ago however it was pretty much unusable.
So much so that in the end I returned it to the store and bought a second-hand one probably made about 40 years ago and it works as fine now as it did back when I got it.
I don't think my particular unit was faulty but rather that it's a intentional design choice however this still puzzles me up until now.
Long story:
After only a few minutes of operation the brand new oil-filled space heater switched off by itself. It couldn't be the thermostat since it was set to its maximum setting and my average-sized bedroom didn't get much warmer with only 10 or 15 minutes at most of heating.
So I took off the cover and found that it was the thermal cutout that was cutting out while the heater was just hot enough for it to be uncomfortable to touch for more than a few seconds.
(By the way this space heater also had a tilt switch to turn it off in case it would tip and fall over.)
I then bypassed the thermal cutout and plugged the heater back in and this time it was heating continuously as a space heater should if you want it to actually heat the room it's in.
However not after long it started smelling so bad that I had to switch it off and open the window to get some fresh air.
Using my flashlight I had also spotted a faint haze that wasn't visible otherwise.
I first thought it could have been a oil leak but after having looked absolutely everywhere there was no trace of any oil leaking from the space heater.
So I think it was the paint that was giving off those fumes from the higher operating temperature that would not have been reached with the thermal cutout connected.
I wonder if this design might be a simple cost-cutting measure or to comply with the new and dumb regulations about space heaters only mandated for intermittent operation. (Not mentioned on the box or in the manual but it might still be the case nevertheless).
While those regulations might make sense for kerosene space heaters I don't see the point of forcing them on oil-filled electric heaters as well.
If only all the flats had a decent permanently-installed heating system, but that's unfortunately not the case.
Or maybe is it simply to keep the heater from reaching a high enough temperature to burn little kids hands ?
In any case this heater was absolutely ineffective at heating any room larger than a cupboard and the older unit that I bought second-hand heats my flat absolutely fine without giving any noxious fume or smell and to put it in perspective there is neither a tilt switch nor a thermal cutout under the cover. Only a thermostat and a couple illuminated switches to control the two elements.
(Btw the new one had a single neon bulb and for unknown reasons they decided to put it on the thermostat knob rather than somewhere that doesn't move. It makes me wonder how long it would have taken for the leads to snap from the repeated motion of the knob.)
(I must also point out that before returning the new heater to the store I reconnected the self-resetting thermal cutout like it was before and thankfully the paint didn't look any different than before so I could return it without issue).
So my question is: Any idea about the possible reasons why my new space heater not only had a thermal cutout that made it absolutely worthless but also a paint that stank the place up whenever it was allowed to get any hotter than what is normally governed by the thermal cutout ?
Also what about the regulations ?
Thank's.
That button reminds me of ME, very dim. 😃
Nice screw-able ring.☺
I wouldn't recommend it for use in anything in the public domain or for factory's etc. To save on the embarrassment when the insurance company turn down your fire damage claim. interesting video 2x👍
The disassemblable model for me, thank you very much😆.
But, I wanted a 21mm button 😂
Always have to assume these things are mounted somewhere in the darkest rooms on the planet in order to be seen
Strange there's no cap to be removed, letting you out a label on the front of the button
22mm is the industrial standard, This is so dull because it's rated for 380v The Industrial standard is 24v or 110v.
I like how I can now tell that Clive has reviewed a plastic repair tool by the shape of the indents in his bench.
I shall have to search the past videos :)
WOW a strong device for sure
pretty nice package. im used to buttons and leds in seperate modules but with this you can just use 3phase without any neutrals
i love watching him destroy things because then i dont have to if i want to learn about how random things work.
Sonic welding of plastic products is very common in manufacturing.
It looks like an older model from a major manufacturer. Maybe Siemens.
There are other Chinese electrical mechanisms with the design of old models from manufacturers like Schneider-Telemecanique.
You had me at "Let's take it apart"...
My little mind thinks: hammer or ssschpudger?🔨
I used these but just the indicator lights and they worked only on mains AC (240). Interesting they have the modules when you press them as well... cool
"yellow"... "green" - Dear Clive, have you ever tested for colorblindness? maybe you should! That was quite a clear green (on the video at least) :D DESTROY ALL THE THINGS
When you consider the cost, it's always amazing how much engineering (and parts) go into these things. Those N/C and N/O modules, AND the Mains LED indicator, don't cost much more than a single microswitch (although to be fair the microswitch offers N/O and N/C contacts in the one module).
Thank you, keep working.
In days of yore I worked for a component's factory that would assemble lots of click-into-place parts then use a single spot of CyanoAcrylate glue to hold the entire assembly together. Lots of multi moulding assemblies usually for the motor industry.
Well that was rather brutal :)
I think the pneumatic hammer toward the end might have been overkill there big lad! :)
It was only this year I learned that 415v is actually 380V. This solar panel engineer explained how only two of the three phases are ever lined up (he did explain it properly i have sjnce forgotten lol)
415V is the phase to phase voltage of a 240V supply. 380V the same for a 220V supply.
If the phases were "lined up" (in phase) then the voltage between them would be 0V! As Clive said, for a typical 220V rms phase-to-neutral system (e.g. China), the phase-to-phase voltage will be circa 380V (220V * sqrt(3)), for 230V rms phase-to-neutral (e.g. Europe, UK) it will be circa 400V (230V * sqrt(3)) phase-to-phase, and for 240V phase-to-neutral (e.g. what the UK used to be in the 90s), the phase-to-phase voltage will be circa 415V (240V * sqrt(3)). The phases are 120 degrees out of sync with each other, hence three-phase (3 * 120 degrees gets the circle).
I took many of those kinds of buttons apart, "servicing" them since my company is too cheap to just replace them. The good buttons that I have the pleasure to service have long grommets or screws instead to access and clean up the contacts, making my job easier on that front. They're almost always incandescent though, due to it simply being easier to have it driven with higher voltages, and the bulbs are still cheap. With that high of a PF, it tells me that the series resistors are pretty much acting as light bulbs anyways, so I'm not sure why they went the route that they did TBH
You're like me, Clive. Though when I take things apart, I know previously that it's for the bin or to keep certain pieces as spares. Electrical components, springs, contacts,etc, go on to be repurposed for other projects and things. Chaos and destruction rules the universe, so why not continue the norm, lol.
I remember in my working days, taking switches apart and making one good one out of two bad ones so a machine didn't have to sit idle while a new switch was shipped across the country.... obviously it was _not_ one of these switches. I think most of ours were modular.
Bravo!
When you are struggling and shaking trying to pry it apart, you need to break away and come back with bandaged hands for a second as a gag and say, "That came apart pretty easy."
searching for LA36M seems to do the trick well. all kinds of diffrent toppers, all the base switches seem to be the same, nice and modular.
My experience regarding destruction:
When I designed and assembled switching cabinets for industrial automation equipment, I used those rigid switches from Allen-Bradley. Nevertheless, operators always somehow managed to destroy them. 🔨 The only ones that seem fairly violent resistant, are those used in control panels for cranes and excavators.
I know this is the right RUclips channel to suggest a video on making a "thermal spudger" from your plastic welder and a custom element. 😇
Obviously, you'd have to increase your ventilation, due to the fumes from all the melty bits, but it might be a fun way to "disassemble" some plastic designs, no?
BigClive needs to employ a bigger attitude adjustment device to these things. As a warning to any electronics that dares defy him.
The Canuckistani X-ray device remained on the shelf today...
When it comes to dismantling items containing springs I put them into a transparent bin liner on the worktop first and then do it. When they hop they remain in the bag.
surprised the green cover was that hard to get off, they normally come off to put a label under in places I've worked at before
I was about to ask where the Plastic Welding Staple scar went, but just noticed that you've scratched it out to make it less visible. LOL
And a bit of talc to blend it in.
Things NEVER do come apart easily with you, Big Clive! 🤣 However, when it comes to my life, that's fallen apart VERY easily! ... But DON'T get me started on THAT! 😭
I can STILL see the desktop "squiggle!" ... It looks like a sine wave!
A true engineer, the clippy-on plastic bits. 😂
Thanks :)
Those switches are very good for the price!
Typically for the work I do the lamps are 24vDC and I don't use the Chinese ones. I have a lot of experience with this sort of switch, although I rarely use anything that is latching, because the PLC takes care of that or otherwise it's a switch.
380V was the old continental 3 phase voltage.
The cases are ultrasonically welded together. It works well.
@7:41 - the way it's coming apart here makes me curious as to whether or not someone has created an ultrasonic spot-welding procedure. Curious.
Putting bootlaces on a two inch jumper, nice.
This is very similar to the buttons we use on our older robots.
It's almost as if they build the parts to be thrown away and replaced with new ones when it fails instead of fixing it!
They seal the components with the tears from the workers who built them.
Clones of an earlier style Omron switch system. The real McCoy works quite well. The modules are changeable depending on need.
It had a cushy life but died putting up a glorious fight.
i can see those slow-make/slow-break contacts lasting about six months, or just enough past the 90-dayy warranty that any redress is impossible.
Remember; every tool is a hammer… until it breaks. 😄
Always good.👍 👍 👍 👍
Clive !!! I think you should Start an Online Reconditioning Service For Old E Bay Illuminated Switches !!!
I get why the LED module ought to be sealed, but it's kinda unfortunate the contacts were also sealed. Granted, it's likely the case the whole module is cheap to exchange, but I could see a contact cleaning rescue attempt being foiled by those heat stakes/ultrasonic welds/whatever. One can typically live without an indicator light for a while, but bad contacts are bad juju.
Vice of Knowlodege to the rescue again 😂👍🏻
They copied the Euro-style panel switches by the looks of it. I don't like the idea of microswitches, but at least they're replaceable.
I remember working on the old Allen Bradley and Square D switch types, where the body was held together with screws, and inside was a heavy set of spring-loaded copper switch legs with silver contacts. They were used on hoists, cranes, and industrial controls everywhere, and they are way more heavy duty than these. We carried a small points file in our tool pouch to clean the contacts with, and voilà, you had a working hoist again.
I made a similar comment about Allen Bradley. I was a journeyman industrial electrician for 45 years before retiring
@@RobertBeck-pp2ru Same here. The old switches, you could stack, adding extra switch units to have several contacts for different circuits on one switch. You had break before make, and you could design jog circuits, etc with them. They were designed to work with motor starters, and some setups could control two-speed setups.
@@craxd1 😀😀😀
with EAO brand switches, you get a tool to flip out the buttons / lights
how about getting an ultrasonic cutter ?
At my job, we recently had a bunch of e-stop switches that if you smacked them in an emergency, like one does, the switch body would fall off inside the panel without stopping the equipment. How they ever got any certification is a mystery.
That was proper carnage for sure. But how was the diode connected? was it only one diode? so that it enters avalanche current in reverse bias? or how was this done?
Two inverse parallel LEDs.
Almost utter carnage. (You still have the green switch left.)
Are the NO and NC switches modular? As in, do they use the same metal pieces and plastic pieces, but assembled upside down?
Same housing, but different contact support.
RSVP that button switch. It was a little disappointing that the switches were just the boring springy type, I would've expected more of a snap action type for the higher-voltage application.What wasn't disappointing was the carnage. There really was no other way around it, and it had to be done, for science.
Guessing that the strength of construction is to resist heavy-handed installation and maintenance technicians making sure that the wire doesn't work loose etc..!!
Is that new isesamo as good as the old ones, Clive?
I've not tested it hard enough yet, but if it's real it should be good.
I've ALWAYS had trouble getting switches and push buttons apart when trying to service them, except if they're decades old, some of those are actually meant to be able to be disassembled. Today's buttons? No way.
What would I search for to find those wire links? They look a bit beefier than standard hobbyist jumper jerky.
The switchy bits are permanently assembled to prevent someone from swapping the covers between NO/NC.
Schneider harmony range is the only switches worth using. Firstly they clamp rather than screw in so they never come loose and they dont fail like chinese ones
I have that on my FM 300A Clone.