Are the castles in Game of Thrones realistic?
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- The TV series Game of Thrones, based on George R R Martin's A Song a Ice and Fire, has some amazing medieval castles, but just how realistic are they?
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I like how all the castles are built on sea cliffs or high up on mountains, nearly impervious to siege... Then there's winterfell chillin in the middle of a flat ass open field like "come at me bro"
i think there's a passage in the book something along the lines of "we have the cold and snow as our first line of defense" and since the north is so vast invaders would probably me in a napoleon/hitler russia kind of situation
TheDrexxus invading north is like invading Russia..
Your enemy is not the wall it's.. the cold and lack of supply
And unlike Russia, the North has a really natural border in the Neck. A nigh impassable swamp that is inhabited by fiercely loyal Northmen who fight like if the Vietcong had northern English accents.
i really hope we get more of howland reed
also winterfell is build on hot springs, that run inside the walls to heat the castle.
One reason to build something like the Eyrie is just pure spite. Like:
"You can't build a castle/palace up there! It's impossible!"
"Friggin watch me, peasant."
"They told me it was crazy to build a castle in a swamp..."
''But i build it all the same!''
Just like the Incas:
Inca emperor: lets build our home here.
Inca advisor: is a fricking mountain.
Inca emperor: and it will look dope af.
@@CallicoJackracham lmfaoaoaoao
I see like this:
"Hey guys, look what I have! I call it Pike"
"That is cool, but have you seen Dragonstone? That is what I call a fortress."
"Yeah, it cannot be taken, but have you seen my Red keep? Do you know how many people had to work there, bring lots of stones and bust their asses? That is how you show off!"
"I beg your pardon. If you want to show off I made my people build a huge dome over some damn cliff and it is high enough that I can toss people I do not like through a floor and they fall long enough to have two birthday parties on their way down!"
"Oh... you won... well, winter is comming I have to go and store enough firewood in towers to support those bloody flat roofs. Bye."
Original saying was "Winter is coming, we need to finish our rooftops"
It was partially forgotten over the years of summer
Damn! this should be at the very top! (no pun intended ; )
This deserves WAY more likes!!
A Russian is a master of anything winter and you've proven this.
Too late, we'll get to it next year.
"And without inventing aircraft, there's really no way you could try and take on this structure"
Aegon: ...
From a historical perspective
Paulo Alexandre DRAGONS, taking that young lord for a dragon ride.
Magic
It was actually Visenya who took the Eyrie. She offered the young boy-king at the time, Ronnel Arryn, a free ride on the dragon Vhagar in exchange for his mother, the Queen Regent of Mountain and Vale, bending the knee to Aegon.
John Whitesell Aegon owned the dragons
If I looked at dragonstone as a historian, knowing it was built pre-gunpowder and knowing the seas are known for being unpredictable with huge storms that blow thru the area, my first thought would be the sharp angles are less for defense and more for softening the blow of the huge waves that crash into the side of the walls during big storms.
This is a fun look back when everyone was still excited for the future of GOT. Now everyone is worried, angry, and frustrated.
Just the nerds
And now that it's over. Disappointed
Back in 2016 GoT was already garbage
@Logan Dean if you liked the sixth season I don't really care how you see my opinions, you're just brainded
@Logan Dean How are you as a book reader not worried about the future of the series? The author is an obese 70 year old man who's considerably decreased the pace at which he releases his books, and who is also still working on various side projects.
Ironically, Dragonstone is one of the most 'fantasy' castles in the books. The towers and great hall are carved in the shape of dragons, which seems very impractical and also serves no purpose defensively. The red keep is made to look far more grand in the show, in the books it's described as being smaller than winterfell
Dragonstone was built by the Targaryens. And if you have dragons, you don't need frigging defenses on an island fortress since you can just incinerate any approaching ships (the way Daenerys took out one of the slave masters' ships was overkill & to intimidate the others, since she wanted the ships for herself).
@@pixelmaster98 Just to illustrate this point, during Aegon the Conquerer's time, King's Landing didn't even have walls (for decades) because it was considered suicide to assault a city with three giant dragons.
Yeah, it was smaller than Winterfell, but Winterfell also spans "several acres," has a three-acre godswood, and at least two wards.
@@leahcollins6502 And that's JUST the keep, forget the rest of King's landing, it is ridiculously huge
The red keep is very recent, there was nothing in Kings Landing before the Targaryans arrived. Over time it brought trade and with it homes and wooden defenses which later got upgraded to stone. So King's landing only existed for 300 years and was just empty land before that.
The people who designed Dragonstone subscribed to the belief that no level of Overkill is enough.
The people who designed Dragonstone subscribed to the belief that the book version was too hard to make. Sigh.
That is the best subscription
The design of dragon stone is an attempt at strengthening it's walls. I mean dragons land on them. They needed all the support they can get
Maybe Dragonstone was designed to protect against attack by dragons? It was built before the Doom of Valyria, so attack by a rival family of Dragonlords was a real possibility.
I doubt angled walls are gunna stop dragon fire
@@mikejohnstonbob935 it would. it would spreed the heat
@J K It would.
If a dragon like Balerion turns up, doesn't really matter how your walls are built. If he wants in, he's coming in. If he wants you dead, you're getting dead.
Harranhal was designed to be impregnable, and Balerion melted the walls and heated it to the point the people inside cooked like they were in an oven.
Dragons like Dany's 3 wouldn't be able to do much damage, but Balerion and probably Sunfire too, would be able to wreck it.
Dragonstone was built by targeryens when they moved from valyria so it was not made to protect aginst dragons, and show version of dragonstone is not right because here is GRRM commenting on dragonstone ruclips.net/video/7lMVQ4HPfKE/видео.html
From what I remember with Pyke is that it's one of the older castles in Westeros, and even some of the towers have crumbled because the sea stacks they were on got eroded too much and stuff.
I think it was a better location back when, but they were too stuborn to change location and just kept building in the same, slowly eroding place.
And knowing how incredibly stubborn those assholes are, I can see that.
Yeah It's probably that. But I was thinking that you don't really have to take the towers on the stacks, just cutting the conection to the mainland and leaving a few men to throw stuff from the captured castle is enough. There's very little they can do to retake the castles without the rope bridges and there is no way in the seven hells that they're getting food or water from outside.
Alexis Volk I think it would be more useful in the sense they're buildings you can't get to before taking what's before, so you can have storage that's impenetrable and completely safe garrisons.
Foxymew But why even bother trying to capture them once you have captured the mainland one? Unless Batman or the assasins live in there nobody is going to be able to attack you or even escape alive. Jumping what looks like a few floors to a rabid and cold sea that is ready to smash you against sharp rocks is a certain death.
You can rampage across the island and none of them will do anything besides suicide diving to meet the drowned god.
I can't even imagine how they replace the shitty rope bridges while both sides cooperate.
Alexis Volk I wasn't arguing about that. I meant in relation to the mainland castle. One that falls, as you say, it's done for. That's not really up for much debate.
Foxymew Oh, I missunderstood you I'm sorry. Too little sleep and too much coffee isn't too good for understanding.
As a writer I find these videos VERY helpful. I like people like you who go into details like this and it really helps me to better create my fantasy world. Plus it's Game of Thrones related. Keep it up!
i would love to have a read once you are done whats it about? and are you going to publish it?
Funny. Everyone able to hold a pen calls himself a writer nowerdays.
Sirion Actually yes. Anyone who writes is a writer. Notice I didn't say AUTHOR, because I haven't published anything yet.
sparda hellkin I have several stories actually, all unfinished. As for what they're about, they're a bit long and complex. I'm still figuring them out. For now for practice I'm going to get some short stories out to see how the public receives them. Until then the main stories aren't ready yet. And I would be glad to let you have a read :)
Sirion Oh wait I've had poems published before. Guess I am an author. HEYOOOOO.
I have no idea how or why this popped up on my suggested videos feed, but seriously... I'm having the absolute worst week (it's Tuesday) and was in such a rotten mood when I got home. But for some reason this video has helped chase those clouds away :) I suppose it may be that your joy and passion for castles is infectious! Good job, man. I rate this random castle video a solid two thumbs up.
stoon0707 did your week end up getting any better?
@@aspire4more why are you asking him this 10 months later?
its called winterfell, because it fell when winter came :D
it FELL. That was ready over there. You came so close and finally missed it :p
OH... I haven't noticed :(
I haven't checked after I writed it. :P
I will try to fix it. EDIT: there, fixed it.
and now my comment seems tottaly useless :p God! Someone, puss me down the window! Not you Jamie. If you leave Cersei unpleased, someone beloved (come baaaaack, Margaeryyyy!!!) will probably pay..
MarsMeLow
:D
More like it was probably build where the White Walkers originally were defeated.
Aegon I build the Red Keep in a time where Valyrians still wielded a lot of magic. So...
"A wizard did it".
I understood that reference.
And construction at Dragonstone began only a year or so after the Doom, when they had an even larger capacity for magic usage.
He built the Aegonfort out of wood and mud. He then ordered the crude structure replaced with a palace that later became the Red Keep, but Maegor the Cruel presided over actually building it.
Actually, Dragonstone was constructed about 200 years before the Doom.
Aegon didn't build the Red Keep, his son Maegor did.
And Dragonstone was build with help of that Valyrian magic, not Red Keep.
The characters actually reference sea erosion at Pyke, noting that its a dangerous place to live and that the castle won't exist forever, and in fact the castle was originally one structure built on a jutting promontory that gradually wore away until only stacks remained.
You should try reading some legal monographs and / or baroque authors, this would feel like fresh breeze of simplicity in sea of secondary sentences.
@Aryan Wadhawan
Grammatically correct, though.
@Aryan Wadhawan Not really...
@@ppscoopy Or just read one of my comments lol!!😅😅
Sorry, couldn't help myself.. but is' quite true though!)
No? oh-ookay.. I'll just show myself out then..
@⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻⸻ Nah... that is just a competent sentence - try Latin if you want to stagger through a sentence that can span PAGES! LOL
I would just capture the first castle of Pyke and ignore the rest. Lol, good luck getting out.
Easiest castle to blockade in history.
Pyke looks pretty retarded and about to fall down to minor earthquake or sea water erosion.
Komninos Maraslidis they mention in the world of westeros that pyke is slowly falling apart
I was thinking that if I was defending I could burn the bridges and hide in the isolated towers, but your comment made me realize the flaws of that plan.
Maybe you could fish from up there and survive on that for a while... The real problem would be drinking water, unless it rains almost every day.
Easiest castle to siege ever. They'll always run out of water sooner more than later.
I was about to disagree with you as I've been to a number of castles in England with flat roofs but then I looked up the Scottish ones I'd seen and yeah... They all have sloped roofs, except for the ones that are in ruins... Funny that.
how much snow do you think england gets?
They might have got a lot during the medieval period, the Themes froze over into the 1800s after all.
The English were never good at land battles anyways they always relied on their navy to keep foreign nations off their land
"Based on" and "Inspired by" mean two very different things in this instance.
The roofs were typically made of wood as well and have likely roted away
I dunno if it was in the book or the show, but someone mentioned that the reason the Pyke is so close to the sea, is because erosion has faded away what little the castle was built on. They mention that much of the castle had already been taken by the sea.
I don't want to be that guy but imagining Winterfel with high-pitched roofs now seems a much better aesthetic for the North, since it invokes an older Scandinavian or Gallic look.
I just don't want to nitpick is all.
Scandinavian, sure. Not Gallic. Gallia was what is now France. Maybe you confused it with German or Gothic?
I really did mean Gallic only because Gallic and Scandinavian architecture are so similar. Nah, German or Gothic would be way too late for something as old as Winterfell.
Dominique Hipolito
Gallic architecture doesn't look one bit like Scandinavian architecture, aside from the tribal stuff (huts and palisades and stuff like that). By German or Gothic I mean the areas, Germany and Götaland (I was thinking maybe you confused Gallic with some other two-syllable G-word, and German and Gothic were the only two I could think of that feature pitched roofs). Gallic architecture doesn't feature pitched roofs like that of Scandinavia or Germany. Hell, there wasn't even any such thing as 'Gallic' architecture in the Middle Ages. Gallia had been annexed by the Romans long before, and as Rome fell, the Franks swooped in from the northeast and formed the kingdom of Francia. If anything you should be talking about Frankish architecture, but we both know that's pointless because Frankish architecture doesn't feature pitched roofs either.
Anyway, TL;DR Gallic architecture is irrelevant, Frankish architecture doesn't feature pitched roofs. By German and Gothic I mean Germany and Götaland, respectively.
The thing is that Winterfell doesn't seem to be of Medieval origin. I'd say it would be something from the Classical period or older but with upgrades as the technology of the times advances. That's why I said Gallic. Another reason I mentioned Gallia is because (if I remember correctly) the First Men are Celts, under which culture falls the Gauls.
And yes I am only atlking about the tribal stuff, especially the pitched roofs. Gallic roofs are pitched, just not as sharply as those farther North.
So when I say Gallic, I really am talking about before the Medieval Era. Ancient Gaul and the ancient Celts.
Winterfell has bad rep from Theon capturing it, but in reality it's nearly impossible to siege (2 walls and moat) or starve (hot springs and gardens. So I would say it's a tie between Winterfell and Storm's End, that castle is really strong as well. Harrenhall is way too big to maintain, big garrison = more food needed. Eyrie is like castle on Mt. Everest, impossible to attack but no point in sieging it, has to be abandoned during winter due to food shortages. Put few hundred men to block it and take over rest of Vale. Casterly Rock is worth mentioning, but it's properties were not properly explained in books so hard to say. Lannisport should be blockaded to stop food transport to the castle.
Worth mentioning: Greywater Watch, floating in the swamps castle of Howland Reed. You will never get to it through Moat Cailin, swamps, poisonous animals and guerilla warfare of cranogman. Castle Black allowed a small force to defend many times.
Underrated castles: Dragonstone - rocky island, maze-like castle with woven spells in walls. Token Baratheon force defended well against full Tyrell army with Redwyne fleet. The Twins - two castles linked through river by bridge. Needs two armies on both sides and even ships to block naval transport. Even when one castle gets captured, you can fall back to another. Uncontested for 600 years. Riverrun - needs three separate camps to even siege it and can house provisions for over 2 years. Can try fishing to sustain it's supplies.
Storms End is ludicrous, and designed against nuclear war rather then dudes with sticks and rocks.
Saif al-Islam well. In the books Winterfell has 2 walls and a moat.
Pike is falling apart... It's mentioned in the books.
Yeah, it was originally built on a headland but over the years it now looks like this.
Actually its Pyke
CoreFreddy I've read the books like three times each and I still can't manage to give a shit about the spelling of placenames.
Castle Pyke is stated as being 4 separate items, But I can see 5??? What about the small castle much lower at the extreme?
copied that for you what "ComocosonoEWL" wrote in an answer a little aboce:
ComocosonoEWL Castle Pike: This was originally one huge castle on a cliff face. You can see in the design the much older castle parts are closer to the sea. As the cliff eroded and parts of the castle and cliff fell into the sea the castle was repaired, bridges were added and the Castle was expanded further inland. The small King's chamber at the end was built halfway down the collapsed cliff from rubble and is the newest and considered the most secure part of the entire settlement.
i understand the idea of weight for the snow in winterfell, but most of the alpine houses (even old and crappy ones) have low slope roofs in order to KEEP the snow on the roof, because _even if it may be a surprise for an australian_ it keeps the heat inside the building (like an igloo maybe..). Since the towers are wide and not so tall, i would say that it could even have been made on purpose
Same deal in Canada. We keep the snow on the roof all winter long.
Yes, but that requires purpose build inner walls and smaller designs. The size of the towers means they're likely not directly built to add the extra support needed so it's just a wide flat roof stacking tons upon tons of snow on it until something gives. There's a max size a roof can be for that design to be effective, and the winterfell towers look slightly too big.
Snow doesn't weigh all that much - 100 kg/m³. So a 10 m² roof after a 1 m snowfall (which is a ridiculous amount) is only going to weigh one tonne. Both wood roofs and masonry walls are capable of taking quite a bit of weight.
That's not neccesarilly accurate. Far north 1 meter snowfall, especially in deep winters, is far from odd. Alongside that if you just measure 1 meter straight then it'll be a lot more than just 1 meter of snowfall in there. The weight on top compresses down the snow below so by the time it reaches 1 meter it's shrunk. Alongside that not all snow is created equal, some is heavier than others, and some lighter.
The winter is supposed to last years? so th buildup of snow could be extreme.
Winterfell was built over a hot springs and has hot spring water circulating through its walls. It's possible that they also have pipes in the rooves that melt the snow and keep it from piling up.
in the books we see that talked about...haven't seen it really addressed in the show...guess a couple points on Winterfell is...the outer walls are 80 feet high..which seems pretty high. And there is no mention of what type of roofs Winterfell has but rather everyone seems to want to winter there.
Damn the walls must be cover in ice during the winter times cause of all that melted water.
Ice could actually make the walls weaker - if there was any water or liquid between the stones of the wall, then it would expand as it froze, damaging the walls.
Yeah, for a lot of reasons, you generally don't want water in your walls. If you want your building to last you want to keep water OUT as much as possible. Especially if it has the potential to freeze and thaw.
+gfarrell80 yep that water freezing and un freezing is really going to turn those walls into 💩 in a long run.
I swear they better show HighGarden and Casterly Rock at least once.
Don't forget Storm's End!
Weren't Stannis' early scenes in season 2 set at Storm's End?
TheRhinehart86 Stannis is at Dragonstone (which was shown), not Storm's End. I'm pretty sure Storm's End has not been shown in the series yet.
There is no Jon Connington, there is nothing happening in Stormlands in the show. I doubt we will ever see Storm's End but it will really be a sin if they don't show us Casterly Rock.
If i remember right, then Renly's scenes in season two where outside of Storm's End. Makes sense that his giant army would camp outside the castle and not inside. (Im talking about the shores where Renly and Stannis met to discuss terms, and where Brienne fought to become Renly's Kings guard). They never actually showed the castle, but the cave in which Melissandre bore that shadow baby was a dungeon of Storms End (only Davos knew of this entry point, as he was a smuggler and supplied Stannis during Robert's rebellion with food, when Stannis was nearly starved out by Randyll Tarly's siege.) So yeah kind of a cock tease to show a dungeon but not the actual castle itself :D
14:16 So, dragons then.
Yup, ever heard of a little place called "Harrenhal," boy?
"And King Harren learned that thick walls and high towers are small use against dragons. For dragons fly"
~Old Nan
Aegon flew his dragon into the eeyrie and let the kid lord arryn ride it...
CodeAtlas Well fuck...
Where is that little tid-bit of lore? Is it in "The World of Ice and Fire"? Or just in some chapter of he series that I've forgotten?
Sorry but it was Visenya
+CodeAtlas actually it was one of his sisters, but the concept is on spot. Anyone else would've had to set up a year long seige to starve them out. She just flew in, like wattup.
One thing that strikes me is that (in the lore/world/history of GoT) these structures are very old, and were likely built, or begun in a time when "cannon" fire took the form of flying dragons and dragon fire, which can apparently melt castle stones such as at Harrenhal... It is possible that the stone and design of Dragonstone was to "split" any incoming dragon fire such that the heat was not always concentrated on one side of the structure, but would spread out the heat damage. Notice that Harrenhal does not have this design and is completely ruined by dragon attack.
Remember also that the valyrians fought amongst themselves, and their dragons fought with them.
Almost all of the castles were designed before dragons were on westeros
One small comment: star-like fortress designs were not introduced to endure under a cannon fire, but to ensure defenders' cannons would have wider firing angle, thus better functionality.
The rest of video is great, thank you!
Well, that really depends on what material the fortress is built of. If you see the St Mark Castle in St Augustine, the people who made it used a stone called coquina that was abundant in the area. Coquina is a very "spongy" and soft rock, its made not only of mineral but the remains of seashells and other stuff from the ocean, that gives it a sort of flexibility compared to other rocks and when the walls of coquina got impacted by the cannonballs, they didnt crack but rather the cannonballs sunk into them. You can go visit the castle and indeed the walls that face the ocean have holes in them from the cannon blasts. That made the ST Mark Castle a fortress nearly impossible to break into since they could fire at the enemy, but the fortress didnt suffer any damage from them.
Its a very interesting place to visit and with a rich history, its a castle that was used as a military fortress for centuries.
On a fun note, they have the remains of a cannon in there that exploded during a battle. during that battle the forces in the castle only lost 4 men, 3 of them were from that cannon exploding xD
To me the Eerye looks a lot like a Bizantine Cathedral
Age of Empires flashback, right there.
Byzantine*
+Sr Nigromante the hagia sofia
yes, it looks like Hagia Sophia painted blue.
Wouldn't it be considered an orthodox church?
Well, with the Pyke people putting so much faith in their Drowned God, I'd assume they just built that castle on those rocks trusting their deity would protect it. I know this video is from a purely practical+historical point of view, that's just a thought I had. And I think the books do mention that Pyke is in really poor shape, so there.
Pyke was originally a fully formed castle, unstable ground lead to parts of the cliff collapsing and falling into the sea along with parts of the castle. A thing about the world of GoT is that the medieval period has lasted around 10,000 years, a lot of the castles were built thousands of years prior to the events of an ice and fire, winterfell and Storm's end are said to be at least 8,000 years old. Thats a lot of time for something to fuck up and destroy your castle.
also, from what i understand, the "faith" in the drowned god is super fatalistic and many treat dying at sea as routine. so expecting such a capricious god to "protect" you seems kinda pointless.
I believe one of the towers collapsed during the siege, in the Rebellion.
Exactly, parts from pyke fell because of a siege when they rebel
@@alveolate for some of them, dying at sea is kinda the goal xD ... what is dead may never die, and thus has no need of protection or fear
"but there are many things game of thrones gets wrong"
*shows daario certainly not naharis*
lol the shade
Shad, Winterfell is built on top of Hot Thermal water Springs
its on the very begining of the First book :)
That won't stop the snow piling up at the top. Take a look at icelandic construction.
It was within the first minute of this video that he said he'd be looking at how they were shown in the show and not how they were described in the books. As far as I know in the show there has never been any mention of the hot springs. Of course now that winter has come it's likely someone will mention it but until someone does technically the hot springs don't exist in the show's version of Winterfell.
true. my bad
***** Is it? Do you know the episode because I don't recall. I assume it would have been early in the show and it's been years since I watched those episodes. Now my curiosity is going to bother me until I know if I'm right or wrong.
Winterfell is built on multiple hot springs and as a result, steam is pumped through the walls. Steam heat, combined with traditional fire in fireplaces, Winterfell will be fine.
I always thought that the large triangular extended parts of the walls in Dragonstone were dragon-sized and that if you wanted to you could place your dragons on them like super-siege craft and rein fire on invading forces.
The castle at pike may just be very old and as the original castle falls into the sea it keeps getting repaired and new structures added.
King Harren did everything to build a new one. Got burned.
Harren did not build this one.
Sara Samaletdin
I know, I was talking about Harrenhal. ;)
Pyke is really weak for two reasons
1. the three towers that are over the sea could in theory be destroyed using a sappers mine maybe
2. if the first castle is taken it would be far too difficult for the defenders to retake it as all the attackers would have to do is destroy the bridge the defenders would be trapped starve to death then the attackers to build a temporary wooden bridge and pyke is taken
anyone agree or disagree I'd like to hear what other people think 😊
I was goin to say what I think but then I saw your name and yea u kno, bye.
1. AFAIK the only explosive within the fictional world of GOT is "Wildfire", and is not very common. There could be other explosives, but in the world of GOT the use of explosives is somewhat rare.
(In a world with explosives, it all depends on explosive power, placement of mines, … - so maybe possible, but it is not a forgone conclusion that one could simply blow up the Pykes)
2. How does this compare to a "normal" castle? At a normal castle there usually is *only* a "first" castle. If the castle is taken, the castle is taken.
Whereas in Pyke there is at least a chance that e.g. relief will come, or that the attacker has to withdraw because the troops are needed elsewhere. (And even the first castle seems to be better defendable than say Winterfell)
Besides: Wasn't it rather the case in medieval times that sieges were the norm, and usually an siege was decided because the attacker had to retreat (e.g. because of relief), or because the defenders had to give up (due to dwindling food)? Would be interesting to know how often in historic times castles were taken by force, versus how often defenders had to give up due to a siege.
When Star Paladin Games wrote about mines, I don't think he was talking about using explosives. Rather, mines as in tunnels dug by people. Historically, what the sappers did was to dig tunnels from their own position until they got underneath the city walls. To prevent the tunnel, or mine, from collapsing, they would build scaffolding to keep the roof up as they dug further. Then, when they were under the walls, they would fill up the tunnel with flamable material: wood, textiles etc, and use as much oil or fat as they could get their hands on as accelerant for the fire. Often lots of pigs were slaughtered to get enough fat. There's even stories about besiegers setting fire to pigs and chasing them down the tunnels. So when the fire destroyed the timber scaffolding, the wall's foundation were seriously weakend and the wall collapsed. This usually worked like a charm, unless the defenders could stop the sappers. Defenders also dug tunnels, and when they met, fierce battles were fought underground. Anyhow, all this is not really very feasable at Pyke, since it's built on solid rock. Mines dug into the rock, though alot harder, still would not make the walls collapse since rock is that more rigid.
As for the defenders being trapped. That may be so, but remember that the ironborn had a large fleet and unless an attacker could defeat their fleet, defenders could be supplied from the sea.
Ah, OK, yeah, now I understand this better.
But in that case, I would go out on a limb and say that undermining the three natural rock columns is next to impossible - unless magic is involved.
And as to the fleet:
Yeah, an effective naval blockade would involve a large fleet (but remember, currently we have two Ironborn factions warring with each other in Game Of Thrones - so this is an possibility).
I guess having a large land force and breaching the "first" castle is the way to go.
And once you have the first castle (and can easily supply it with materials over land), it should be possible to use siege engines to wreck havoc on the next castle, in case anybody decides to hold out there.
Don't forget that Pyke and the rest of the ironborn's realm are islands. You will need a fleet of ships first to get your army and siege engines to the island of Pyke. Then you'd need ships to re supply your army and put up a blockade against the ironborn. This was what happened during the Greyjoy rebellion. The Ironborn fleet was defeated by Stannis Baratheon's fleet, and the allies then broke Pyke's walls using siege ships. This is actually feasible, mirroring the siege of Tyre by Alexander the Great in 332 BC. Tyre was at the time situated on an island 1km off the coast, with city walls rising 46 meters above the sea. Well stocked and being able to get re supplied by sea, Alexander had no choice but to take the city by force. After the construction of a causeway and putting up huge siege towers failed due to the phoenician fleets counter attacks, Alexander got ships from Cyprus, Ionia, Byblos, Arwad and Sidon. With this fleet he managed to blockade both harbours of Tyre, and bring in ships with cranes, battering rams and catapults. These succeeded in breaching the city walls, and Tyre was conquered.
The red keep is definitely tall, but I think the main thing that tricks the eye is the fact the rock it's on changes massively in elevation. Most of the elements of the castle are the same measurement, but they are built on different levels/heights of stones
winter fell roofs funnel the heated in winter which melts the snow and provides water for the castle
with the erie there have been structures in time where they carve the blocks out of the mountain and use them to build the castle, perhaps that is where they gained the building material from
I thought it was related to that, yeah. The strangely advanced heating system that carried boiling hot spring water all throughout the castle and walls at all times. Which means all those walls are really thick. But making it all the way to those roofs? That's really surprising. I wonder if that's even remotely feasible.
+SuperJohn12345
With the Erie you also have to gamble that the enemy actually wants to take the castle. Which if you are trying to buy time for your allies, might not be the case. The biggest vulnerability of the erie are the pillars of rock it's built on, destroying one or two would probably bring the whole thing down.
They're Pillars of rock that can support Erie, they ain't gonna break in an easy way.
Ravenwing19
well no one said it was easy, but still faster than a long drawn out siege.
The eerie not sure on the exact spelling looks exactly like the Hagia Sofia on a rock
Eyrie
The eyrie in the show dissapointed me alot ...
well it does not look as described in the books :(
but I don`t watch the series anyway... instead I read the story so :D
(I saw it on pictures)
Gwynbleidd same I've only read the books, this was the first time I've actually looked at it.
+Edgy Bastage the book version is way more realistic and beautiful the show one doesnt even have the iconic 7 towers and weirwood moon door
In the books winterfell is heated by a sping underground that keeps the castle warm
Hot water in the walls... but no functional showers, sinks or toilet...
@Kirin Jindosh ...You know hot spring aren't usually that dangerous, right? Like, I'm pretty sure you can pay to go bathing in some of them as a tourist.
Also, you know medieval knowledge of the world probably wouldn't have been able to tell you about the dangers of volcanoes even if it were relevant? It'd just be like "Hey, the ground here feels warm! Let's build a castle here!". (And then even if it was dangerous, you'd probably have centuries or millenia before it blew up.)
Also, you know a lot of modern places are built on geologically active sites, right? Like, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and Vancouver are all built right along fault lines with nasty histories of severe earthquakes? And all of Hawaii and Iceland are basically literally built on top of active volcanoes (and, in the case of the latter, with enough geothermal energy to heat and power all of Europe, kinda like Winterfell on steroids). And the entire nation of Japan is built on top of an earthquake and tsunami zone? And basically all of Florida (as well as numerous island nations) is built just a couple meters above the sea, and will literally disappear if the polar ice caps so much as sneeze over the next century? And most of the Netherlands is actually built *under* the sea, and is able to exist only because of a very complicated system of dykes? And like half of the United States of America is built within range of the Yellowstone Caldera/Supervolcano, which is supposed to blow up any time now (in geological terms), which will devastate all of those cities with concussive forces and smother them with volcanic ash?
In the case of Winterfell, even if they did know about the dangers of volcanoes, it's probably still worth it for being able to weather any siege and survive any winter. You're a lot likelier to be killed in GoT by starvation next year or by an invading army next month than a volcano *maybe* erupting sometime this century.
@Kirin Jindosh i dont think all hot springs erupt that way most are just pools of water you are thinking of geysers
Kirin Jindosh it was built by the same guy that built a really fucking big ice wall magic did it mate
@@neolexiousneolexian6079 hot springs arent usually dangerous to anything else than your wallet ye
About the practicality of the Eeyrie and Pike.
What are they defending? I mean, the point of fortifications are to protect something. A city or strategically-important position usually. But there's nothing there, at either Pike or the Eeyrie. Any attacker can just ignore your amazing castle and go about their business conquering your land.
Winterfell makes sense, there's a town there; same with the Red Keep and King's Landing. But Pike and Eeyrie are just gigantic boondoggles.
Both castles are defending the lords of the kingdoms, so they have a huge strategic value
What use is the lord if he stays locked up in his amazing castle while you fuck up all of his land....What is his legitimacy then?
Kings have been sitting behind castle walls while their lands are being ravaged quite regularly. Hell, sometimes it was their own army that did the ravaging when they needed the supplies.
The Eyrie was actually built as a sort of vacation home for the Arryns, they stay there during the summer. And during the winter they return to the Gates of the Moon the original seat of House Arryn, a bigger castle which they use during the winter.
Say they house 100-150 men. Say you pass 5-6 of these to take a town without besieging them. What do you do when a Massive army bush whacks you because you let them form up? That's why these castles exist.
The Eyre is clearly inspired by late Roman/Byzantine architecture, that could be the Hagia Sophia right there.
Looks like the temple of saint Sava (Belgrade) to me :)
Based on the color I'd say more the Blue Mosque, but yeah, DEFINITE Byzantine and Hagia Sofia vibes.
Something you’ve missed about winterfell is that it is build on a hot spring. This keeps the castle warm and is why it is so capable of surviving the winter
Winterfell's roofs are domed so they're probably quite strong. The castle is also built over a natural hot spring and they pump hot water around the castle for heat. If snow buildup is a problem maybe they also pump it through the roof - like the heated roads in countries like Finland.
The plumbing needed for that would be quite impresive for a pre-industrial, feudal, agricultural-centered society that happens to be rather poor because it's hard to grow crops in the nort. Just a good roof would be cheaper,easier and mostly better. And take into consideration that the bloody thing it's an archeological artifact because it's one of the oldest standing buildings in westeros.
I think the idea is that they have a channel built into the walls, a liquid version of what the Romans had in their bath houses. Having architectural relics from a more advanced past seems to fit the general GoT theme. As for a roof being easier; to build, sure, but once the heat system is built it's very convenient for the residents. It means no need for big stockpiles of firewood so more space for food and other provisions.
***** Yes,that's why it's meant to heat the walls so the winter is bearable inside Winterfell. Why waste hot water sending it around 5 floors upwards to heat the roof? and in the way the water that can't be over 100° Celcius would lose heat because that's what happens when the temperature in the ambient is colder than the liquid itself. You also need some sort of pump because of the amount you need to properly heat a whole roof, you aren't pumping with any kind of mechanical pump but maybe a manual one. The pluming can be either a soft metal one (very crude lead or copper) or more likely the stone itself, if in winter in what is likely an artic weather with around -30° Celcius, how do you expect the water to arrive hot enough to melt enough snow to compensate for the new snow that's falling (and that's hopping that the water itself doesn't freeze in the roof). An don't get me started on how the fuck you're supoused to fix a leak in stone plumbing or how the steam isn't really good for the masonery specially in summer with fungus,mold and lichen.
Haha I didn't mean to imply the whole of Finland has heated roads - that would be crazy! I'm just talking about this kind of thing which is totally awesome: heyhelsinki.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/img_91571.jpg?w=676&h=574
I thought your neighbours had it. Didn't Kiruna in Swedish Lapland have heated roads?
The Eyrie looks a lot like Hagia Sophia.
Edit: It looks even more like the Blue Mosque: s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/50/fc/83/50fc8314069da75ed75a3a5884f97616.jpg
True on both counts. Becaus both the Ayasofya and Blue Mosque are "Domed Basilicas", as is e.g. St. Peter's Basilica.
well, duh - the Blue Mosque was built as an Islamic copy of the Hagia Sophia
The "duh" is unnecessary. I live in Istanbul and I already know about the history of its landmarks ;)
Aragiss Really? So when you know that the BM is a copy of the HS, then how is TE *more* like the BM than the HS?
chris1000 I'd agree with him: the Eyrie is more like the Blue Mosque because it is, well, Blue-ish. The shape and architecture are more alike. The Blue Mosque is a "copy" in the sense that it is patterned after it as an Ottoman counterpart, it's not an actual replica. By the same token, not all domed basilicas (I've seen quite a lot) look alike, despite being on the same model
One thing to note is that since you have long periods of summer and winter you can really get building for a long time before having to huddle in winter. So you could arguably start and finish bigger projects having good supplies of foods, trade goods and material supplies without having the winter breakdowns of the real world.
Starforts allow for no blockage of line of sight upon any wall surface, archers would have unrestricted fire upon anyone scaling or hiding under the wall.
This.. I have never heard the design of a starfort to be to deflect cannon fire.
It was always to have clear fire to any siege ladders or siege engines
I am not a historian, but even I have heard about star forts being stars to "catch" the cannonball in the middle, where they could "control" the amount of damage the fort takes.
The ability of the starfort to deflect cannon fire was due to the gentle slope of the walls (called a Glacis), not from the bastions. In fact, it was the development of cannon that rendered most medieval forts largely irrelevant; massive vertical walls just made great targets. Most Vaubanian fortifications were constructed of earth, often with stone facings. Earth is excellent at absorbing kinetic energy, which helped to keep the walls from shattering under fire (this is why modern militaries still use sandbags to fortify positions against small arms fire). I have also read that Japanese castles (at least the bases) were also exceptional at standing up to cannon fire because they were made of very similar sloping stone façades placed over an earthen core. The bastions on the Vauban forts were to eliminate line of fire dead zones and to allow for enfilading fire between the bastions. Although bastions may have not been part of historic medieval castles, this feature could still have been used this way, as Jack Thompson said.
No, they would be pretty useless. The strenth of Bastions is that they:
A) Could take Cannons on top while being able to withstand cannonfire since they are massive(only significant for early fortresses/castles)
B)The have no dead zones when built right, with 90° angles between them like Vauban suggested to do.
I heard the same thing about this design in various castles I visited in France, many of which were built centuries before Vauban came around. However, it is to be noted some late designs (or additions) WERE made in such a way they could absorb early canon fire. The first one that comes to mind is Bonaguil's castle. This castle is built on a hill and unassailable from all but one direction; and the walls there are curved inward. From a battlement perspective it makes little sense, but then you realize this wall is facing the only place on the hill an assailant could place artillery... and the keep is angled in a similar fashion...
so I have been following your castle videos enthusiastically, and I have a burning question I'd like your educated opinion on. how would you categorize the buildings commonly referred to as Japanese "castles"? they don't seem to actually fit your description of castles, nor do they really fit with your other listed terms for medieval European buildings of similar or related nature (fortress, chateaux, palace). unless I'm failing to really grasp the definitions? maybe they count as a fortress, technically? or you could make an argument for certain Japanese castles to be called palaces? or would you use a completely different term from all of these?
This is a tough one and I think I'd like to do more research on Japanese 'castles' before i try and work out my opinion on them. Castle can be a tricky term to define as it is so strongly associated with the medieval period. I've actually visited a Japanese "castle" when I was at japan and they are very well fortified and interestingly, the Daimyo didn't live in it but instead lived in other single story structured within the walls, too many stairs, and the main fortress was only used when under attack. So that alone makes the function of a Japanese "castle" quite different to a traditional European castle. Looks like I might have to do a whole video on them.
I look very forward to seeing your video on Japanese castles then, and the differences between them and European castles. One bit of interesting information I have on them is that attitudes and philosophy concerning invasion tactics and siege were very different, with Japanese castles incorporating more maze-like interiors rather than worrying about buildings being destroyed. Also there castles were spurred into advancement because of the introduction of the harquebus rather than declining in use because of cannons, but up until that point they were mostly wooden fortresses, usually not meant to be permanent. Kind of a reverse to Europe.
That's how a German castle worked, though. The ruler lived in a palace, or "Schloss" that was inside the walls, and only retreated to the keep tower, or "Bergfriede", in times of war. The Anglo-Norman keeps that served the dual functions of a fortified residence are not the only type of castle.
+Preston McDonald O.O that's exciting information to learn!
and not just in Germany, but pretty much all over the continent except in Norman Brittain.
Quite often the entire castle complex was a multi layered construct of walls, keeps, and other buildings, most of which were not fully manned unless the castle was preparing for war, with a "palace" or other more ornate house for the lord of the manor situated either inside the outer walls on the outer courtyard or completely outside the complex (which later became the Brittish "manor house" when the Brits adopted the practice).
There's a Norman castle about a mile from my house that was very little used because after it was built, it was realized that it sat below the crest of a hill just to its east that made it possible for archers or anyone with a trebuchet or other seige engine to rain missiles right down into its courtyard. It was quite an oopsie. The obvious solution would have been to build the castle about two hundred yards to the east. So castle screwups did indeed happen.
Can you do a video on lord of the rings castles/cities
Ooh that's a great idea!
For Gondor! For the white city!
For the Great Wedding Cake!
for dogekac!
I am not an expert but before I watch he video I want to guess one of the things that are wrong with the castles in GOT and it is that you cant see farming fields outside the walls, nothing, how is a city going to survive?
From the Riverlands or Highgarden
Bagdad and Constantinople are on water, and get most of their food delivered that way. Also, both were near their food sources before 20th century build-out of suburbs; I would expect that Mikkelgard (if we're using old names of cities) had dairy and egg production farms within the walls, just as NYC had until after WWII.
The same applies to Dragonstone, Pyke, Red Keep. The Chinese fortified capital of Changan had same trouble, so it kept switching between Luoyang with fields and Changan with forts for more than thousand years.
As i see it farming fields are just another part of the defense. Farmland are quite big flat fields and offers would be attackers very little if no cover at all.
Most likely they would have offered some food for the siegers...
Sadly the winter that they predicted was coming was only 4 days long
It was said it was years long
Congratulations on 20k subscribers! I've been subscribed since about #300! :D
Thanks mate, I'm over the moon about it, and thank you for sticking around!
Shad do a new video series called (Rate My Castle) Where people will send request of historical castles and you review the castle. For example you review it on defense, comfort, practicality, possible upgrades, weakness, strengths and how good the castle looks in terms of beauty. For your first episode could you review Bunratty Castle in Ireland ?
i read this message and decided to subscribe! wooooo i'm part of the group!
I'd really like you to have a look at the different castles in the Witcher Series. You could have a detailed look at every one of them from every angle and really say something about the differences and realism between say Kaer Morhen, Crow's Perch, Wyzima Castle, Kaer Trolde in Skellige and the very different Palace in Touissant.
We get a great shot of draganstone in the premier of season 7 I wish he would have done this after that episode
I have a question about Pyke.
Alright, it's really hard to assault the castle. But what about siege?
If I had to kill everyone in a castle, I would take the first tower and just break the bridge. Eventually, everyone inside would starve to death. Am I missing something?
Ropes and/or caves used to get food in and out from the sea? You'd need to blockade the sea as well, and the Greyjoys are the best seafarers.
don't even bother with taking the first tower. just fortify your own position a bit farther off. Your only objective is to make sure no reinforcements and supplies can get int and people can't get out.
thats why its called "winterfell" winter came, and it fell apart.... geez.
Isn't "the Disney castle" (Cinderella Castle to be specific) an admitted derivative of the castles at Moszna, Segovia, Pierrefonds, and Neuschwanstein? Not medieval, of course, but each one very much a real castle.
Yes, it is! The thing to realize is that castles like Neuschwanstein were not built as defensive castles, they were built more as palaces; this is especially true for Neuschwanstein, which was constructed in the 1800s, well after the defensive castle had really ceased to be a major defensive construction. This is evident in the architecture; Neuschwanstein lacks an exterior wall from which defenders could stand and fend off an attack, apart from the gatehouse, which actually contains some decent defensive architectural elements, and even the gatehouse has windows at lower levels, which are a liability in the event of a siege or attack, as an attacking force could pretty easily smash through them to gain entry. Of course, this is because Neuschwanstein was built by Ludwig II to replicate a fantasy castle from one of Wagner's operas, as an homage to Wagner, of whom Ludwig II was a major patron and avid fan.
It may have been mentioned before but something to remember is that Dragonstone was not built by any Westerossi culture, the other examples were either Firstmen or Andal architecture, especially the latter. Dragonstone's distinctive aesthetic may be a result of it being of Valyrian architecture, the Valyrian Freehold being so very far advanced technologically advanced beyond any other culture introduced in the fore, including that of the Rhoynar, Andals and Firstmen of Westeros. Dragonstone may well be a starfort because developmentally, Valyria was likely developed well past medieval technology.
thank you! was thinking the same thing. from what RR says in the books the description of Dragonstone: it has thousands of gargoyles and stone dragons the whole thing looked like a group of dragons on a black sea shore. so i don't know where this picture came from
Fun fact of lore in asoiaf Bran the Builder (the first stark) who built both the wall and winterfell actually built winter atop a hot spring that’s water went throughout the walls of winterfell warming the entirety of the castle
Dragonstone looks like Minas Morgul with lights turned off. :D
i heard that theory (didn't read the books sry) that the castle is build upon Hot springs (geothermally heated groundwater) or a dragon who knows...but this could at least explain why snow on top of the towers could melt...
its explained in the show I think, coz I never read the books and I know winterfell is located in hot springs. Maybe one of the boltons said it. or maybe it was in the dvd extras
Yes, there are hot springs in the Godswood (Ward/Bailey) for Winterfell.
In fact, the hot spring water is piped through the walls of the castle. Helps to maintain a consistent temperature year round. Such an interesting concept
LoonaticX Yes, in the books (the first I think) someone says some stones are hollow and form something like pipes for the hot spring water to go through.
Anyway a good defensive tower has a flat roof. Pointed roofs are a major nuisance to defend. Where snow is just an extra for the defenses.
That feel when we are now done with GoT qnd we STILL haven't gotten to see Storm's End
really loving the Castle videos
Thanks mate, I love em too!
any chance of a vid on middle earths castles?
Do you think the rest of the castle will function without boys shoveling snow from all the surfaces? It's not hard to do on a flat roof. If you don't like heights tie a rope around you and connect it to something. It's not like anyone will attack with a middle age army when you do it anyway. They are also quite busy handling their existence in half a metre of snow. Flat roofs are common all over Scandinavia today. And guess what, a shovel and a boy solves all problems with snow they ever will bee facing. The next time you try to guess to what extent winter actually is a problem. Go to a Swedish, Finnish or Norwegian forum and ask around. Don't ask the Danish however. They don't really have winter there. :)
I don't think you can compare real winter with GoT winter which is so extreme and last for decades, because of that I don't think a boy with a shovel would be as effective there as in real life.
@@dayannaalvarez3830 Its not like 500 feet of snow comes down in an hour, it would be perfectly easy to do through even the bad GOT winter.
The Red Keep also has Maegor's Holdfast inside, a part of the castle only accessible through one route(excluding secret tunnels) which is a drawbridge over a pit of spikes.
I have to address your critic of Winterfell. unlike real world structures, the north comes under harsh winter, practically arctic conditions. and in that perspective, flat round towers make sense. flat roofs accumulate snow- and snow is an excellent insulator, preventing heat loss due to convection. round structures have the highest volume to exterior ratio, which also help in constraining heat loss to a minimum. flat top round towers are great for a castle that comes under arctic conditions once or twice in a a decade, but need to remain a functioning castle the rest of the time.
Also, Winterfell is naturally heated by hot water from the Earth.
i thought about that too...the only way to prevent snow hurting the bulding is to make it liquid..
How is the hot water of the earth going to help with the flat roofs on the towers?
Gilmaris
haha i dont know , maybe if the towers are hot due to the hot walls (hot source under winterfell) the snow can be liquid and fall naturally
Water hurts buildings more than snow. Get water in your mortar and stone, and it will freezes and cause spalling, slowly destroying a masonry structure. Much more preferable to have snow and sloped roofs. Much easier to just heat the spaces intended to be inhabited by humans, not solid walls.
It isnt just water, underneath winterfell in the massive system of catacombs are geothermal hot springs. They give off enough heat to ensure that even in winter the castle interior remains relatively warm.
star castles did exist in medieval era. Their purpose, one side of the wall couldn't be attack without getting hit in the back by the opposite side.
Well, no. Star forts did exist, but well after the medieval period, and they were specifically created as a reaction against gunpowder weapons.
"that would make assaulting this castle very very difficult"
Daenerys: *laughs in high valyrian
Okay Shad ; important detail in GRRM song of ice and fire books, seasons can actually last years. The flat roofs in winterfell serves for collecting water in summer, and they are supposed to build up conical wooden cones on the towers when winter comes. But the show missed that entirely, agreed
well catapults exist in this universe so the star design on dragonstone is still practical
I very much agree, Dragonstone was originally a Valyrian Freehold castle.
If it where designed to withstand prolonged siege it whould be a great retreat to fall to to allow their dragons the recuperate.
Stone of the dragons could very well mean in the series that it was a fortess designed for the safekeeping of the dragons in an unshakable hold
Even without catapults, it's still a good design. The emplacements going outwards allow you to more easily hit infantry that is trying to climb the walls. Imagine archers sitting on top of the outward emplacements, shooting to the sides to easily hit infantry that are trying to climb the walls. The triangle/diamond shaped emplacement (instead of the older and flawed round shape) makes it so the defenders can always effectively engage the attackers, no matter where they go - there's no dead space where the attackers can hide.
But this design doesn't feel very medieval, it's relatively modern and it's quite surprising more castles in GOT don't use this superior design since it has been invented already, apparently.
The design probably hasn't been reused, because all the castles in Westeros are already way older than Dragonstone itself, which probably is not way older, than 300 years. There may also be a religious bias, since the Valyrians were of another faith, than the Westerosi, who predominantly believe in a God called "The Seven".
-Rick West
Its NOT really a God called "The Seven" - Its more that the people's faith is in directing worship to "the Seven Who Are One", a single deity with seven aspects or faces, each representing a different virtue. So, just 'one of these seven aspects' is likely to appeal to a particular worshipper.
Of course the North retain the Old Gods, and the Iron-Born have their Drowned God.
one thing .. is it only with my shitty eyes or does Winterfell HAVE battlements? .. looking at the left side of the picture there are slits in the wall ( with one the sky behind the wall can be seen) just the tops are connected ( maybe there were roofs ? but jeah .. arrow slits ( and the right seams to be really broken down)
In the books Dragonstone was built three times, each time it's walls would collapse from the intense wind and the shaking from the sea hitting its base. They ended up asking the guy that built the wall and Winterfell to fix the problem. So the walls are supposed to have angles and curves to disperse the wind, and 30 feet thick or so. I think that is why they went with such a look on the show. It is supposed to have the strongest walls of any castle in Westeros.
I think you're talking about Storm's end, seat of baratheons
Anyone else just multitasking between listening and reading the comments?
...No? I guess I'll just show myself out then...
WINTER IS COMING! (Literally! 😂)
Same! I commented this in November and it was snowing outside
Where are the moats ? Where are the pheasant farms that fed every one ? No double walls ? No forests ? No wood ?
Who needs fuel for fire? Who needs to drinke, eat, clean, wash? Pfffffff
In the books Winterfell was built over thousands of years, so it has a number of different architectural styles. The Red Keep is only 300 years old and is much smaller than Winterfell. Pyke reminds me of Dunnottar Castle in Scotland which is built on a sea stack as well. I think the idea is that Pyke is very old and parts of the castle have probably already fallen into the sea. In the books the Eyrie is described as 5 towers stakes as tightly as arrows in a quiver, so nothing like those domed buildings. I guess Dragonstone and the Red keep were also built with Valyrian building techniques and with the use of dragonfire.
Maybe the star fort like design was to protect against Dragonfire
This is Sahil from the future. Winter has come and dear lord was it screwed.
In the lore, dragonstone was actually built by a much more advanced civilization - old Valyria. It's possible they had canons.
Why would you need cannons if you have MOTHERFUCKING DRAGONS
@Lord of Warhammer why would the civilization who breeds, rides, tames, controls etc dragons develop a weapon against them?
If a dragon would go wild, they can just use their other dragons to stop it
Winterfell looks like a pinball machine!
One aspect of the analysis I found is missing from this analysis is the cost and logistic of operating such castle. Honestly a lot of well defended castle in history are abandoned not because they were taken but because they are too expensive to operate. I imagine the castle of veil would be very expensive but good luck paying laborers to bring supplies up to that place. The cost would been enormous to supply such a place if there is a large population.
I love when people use science to explain fiction, great video!
Winter came and it was a very Short Night!
In the books, Pyke is said to have been a proper castle once upon a time. But like you said, sea erosion is a thing, and it is said that the greater part of the castle fell into the sea after erosion eroded away it's base. The towers are all that is left and that is why it looks like that.
2:46 That "machicolations" was pretty weak though.
Turns out they didn't need a great castle. Not when they have their super teleporting assassin who can just instant kill the Night King.
I would just like to point out that besieging the eyrie would probably be easy if you are patient.
you said there is only 1 access point, and most probably only 1 exit in that case, a massive army would most likely surround the entire location and the leader of the expedition, if strategically wise enough, would just wait till the Eyrie runs out of food and everyone either surrenders or die off.
however you should probably add the importance of these castles, for example, Kings landing is important because it resembles the rulers palace,
I'm sorry I didn't watch the entirety of your video, I posted the comment and I literally legit listened to you point out that you can starve them out (facepalm) well my opinion still matters
An army massive enough to properly surround that would be highly unlikely, and vulnerable in the mean-time. Fortunately, it's not likely the people inside could make any real attempt to break out, but they could easily last months, and any allied forces moving in would tear through an army spread out to encircle something that large.
Most castles could be easily besieged. It was usually rather up to how long the castle's stores could sustain them and how long the besieging army would bother to hang around. Or if there was a relief army coming, of course. Forcing their way into the Eyrie would be a tall order, though.
Vince Rutherford and if the lord of the eyrie is not stupid he would have years of supply... Plus the bloody gate alone is impregnable..if im situated that high i would have tunnels leading to the forest below for supply purposes... And tunnels are easily resealable though the vale is mountainous i dont think armies can get to the land below
Great information, I love how nutty you get over the small details. Seriously I do, most people watching GoT would not think anything of any of this but I am fascinated with details.
"Aside from inventing aircraft"
You mean like dragons?
Also, no Harrenhall?
It would be hard to criticize hate hall since most of the castle is in ruins
The red keep is very very tall"
Hightower: hold my citadel.
I'm a french historical architecture student and I found your video intresting. However the fact that the roof are flat is not a contradiction at all. On contrairy it's logic. First you show a scandinavian church as an exemple to demonstrate your theory and it's likely to be true but this roofs can also refer to a mythological symbol of the scandinavian temple. In the world's area where there is a lot of snow we can see roofs with little steep in order to contain the snow on the roof. That way the snow remain and don't fell on people untill it melts. and this kind of montains architecture can resist with sevrals meters of snow on the roof. So the structure argument is unlikly to be true too. Knowing that castle walls were extra large to face siege weapons there are large in of to support the snow even for a 10 years winter...
I'm proud to be the first here to say...
Winter came for the North!
And it WAS screwed!
I know its dumb but maybe the stark's roofs get changed out for winter? Remember these seasons last years or decades, maybe they always set up fresh roofs for winter.
On the other side maybe the castle has been designed to support massive weight on the roof, in which case snow and ice would have an insulating effect helping to keep the castle warm.
Or maybe the people who like drawing castles aren't master architects who take pains to factor in climate when they invent stuff.
you should really look into the buildings in Elder Scrolls Oblivion the cities make so much more sense from a construction point of view.
I watched this video when it came out and now again, after the battle of Winterfell. I read many interesting comments and maybe some other people who also come along after the latest episodes of GoT can give some further input. What I missed in the battle of Winterfell were some further fortifications. In the episode they made one line of defense before the caste, but behind the army, which they then set on fire. So I was wondering, why Witnerfell in general has no further fortifications to begin with (like on a mountain, or having a moat or multiple layers of wall). Some in the comments argued that Winterfell doesn't need this, because it is surrounded by snow and the winter ect. so this is a big enough defense mechanism against invading armies. They compared it to Russia and the invasion of the Nazis, where so many froze to death in the Winter. Now I find this to be a good argument, however, this only works with normal seasons. In a world were the summer is several years long, an invasion could happen completely during the summer period, where a cold, but not extremely cold, environment might not be enough to defend Winterfell from invaders. I was wondering if anyone can think of any other reasons for not having at least a moat. In another video of Shadiversity, where he collaborated with the Metatron on difference between European and Japanese castles, he gave me a good answer for why many castles do not have more lines of defense / more outer walls. Roughly it is difficult to manage troops under attack and with a smaller castle you can move troops quicker. I think this argument is applicable to Winterfell. But it would be even more convincing if Winterfell would be on e.g. a hill or mountain / have a moat. In the show it is always praised as THE castle of the North, and everybody always wants to control it, but it seems for me that there might have been better choices to gather the troops to fend of the white walkers, than Winterfell. I would be really interested in some input. Also I get that it is a show and it might just have been a shitty decision by the makers of the show...but you know it is fun talking about it from a strategic perspective :D
This came on with autoplay. Winterfell would not have had a roof issue, as they built it over a thermal spring and channeled the heated water through the walls to warm the rooms. The concern isn’t the roof, it’s internal erosion of the masonry.
Some critique of Winterfell was fixed by season 7/8 shots
I built a functioning minecraft castle based on what you've said in your videos. It has a thick outer wall with 3 layers of stone and 2 of obsidian. A gate so as to bottle neck the enemy (also it has a gatehouse with a murder hole) the keep is on a tall hill (also the back of this whole thing faces the ocean) also it's got a farm so the enemy can't starve anyone out unless they get past the massive outer wall. Also between the outer wall and the keep is a slightly thinner wall with its own bridge, gatehouse and murder hole. If someone tries to mine through the wall it will take a while becuase of the obsidian layers so there is plenty of time to kill them. If they attempt to build their way up then we can shoot arrows down at them. If they get through the gate then we open the murder hole and the gate/bridge gets filled with lava. the only weakness the castle has is that someone could dig under the wall but the main keep is still pretty high up and the keeps lower level is the barracks so they'd be walking into a room full of trained guards. Also I set up a warning system using foreworks so if someone at the outer wall sees trouble they can launch a firework to alert everyone before the attackers get a chance to even be near the wall. also I made sure to have plenty of battlements. Do you think this is enough defenses?
Also I made sure to have crenulations that are actually big enough to use as cover
@@AJSSPACEPLACE did you have a license though? 😂
Love your passion for castles in general. I've also been rather passionate about medieval defensive structures. You're analysis of these structures seems right on. Thanks
No, not at all. They make out like these castles are hundreds if not thousands of years old. The castle period was just a fraction of that. And during that time, castle design changed in big ways, especially during and after the Crusades. Krak des Chevaliers is a perfect example. Before that, castles were mostly glorified hill forts. Even the fortifications that the Romans built were poor compared to Krak des Chevaliers. So in short, even the concept of GoT castles in unrealistic.
No squares. No corners at all on the outside. Too easy for the battering rams to knock out the corner stone. Make everything round, nothing for the battering ram to easily start with. Slope the bottom of the walls outward, so that any stone dropped from above will ricochet towards the attackers.
Donald Badowski The castle period has lasted far longer in the GoT universe than in real life due to them being in a state of technological stagnation. There have been no major advances in military technology in the GoT universe since the advent of dragons. Therefore the castles being ancient yet similar to "modern" structures makes perfect sense in the context of the books/tv series
+Donald Badowski I would have to disagree about Roman fortifications. They had common practices of how to build quick forts (mostly of wood) and those could be taken as soon as the inhabitants failed to actively defend them at every point. Rome itself, however, had the greatest walls in the known world. When the armies of Rome failed, the walls of Rome were the only thing that kept Sparticus on the outside. He marched his army of freed slaves past the city of Rome several times to flaunt his superiority, but he couldn't actually get into Rome because of the walls.
The Romans used to hold chariot races on top of the city wall just to show everyone how crazy big their walls were. They were basically impenetrable by the technology of the time. Even today, if those walls stood to their former glory, you would need a line of tanks or artillery to repeatedly blast the same spot on the wall for an afternoon to take down one spot and clear (or turn to dust) the rubble for entry. The Romans didn't have as much of a castle building culture as the people who would come later, but they damned sure did know how to fortify a city.
'When the armies of Rome failed, the walls of Rome were the only thing that kept Sparticus on the outside.'
Or it was Spartacus missing siege skills that kept him out of Rome. Yet 500 years later the Langobards and Goths would conquer and plunder Rome, even without complex siege machines such as ballistas or catapults. The greatest wall in Rome, the Aurelian wall was indeed quite advanced at that time, especially the round or half round towers that were really ahead of the time. But it also had significant weaknesses that counterbalanced its strenghts. Its biggest weakness was the material: Bricks, which are not as resistant to heat and fire as real stone. Bricks will eventually crumble to dust when exposed to high heat and a thick wall out of bricks would even provide deformation into climbable structures. Also the towers and gatehouses have many windows right underneath their tops, which is a very big weakness and easy to conquer. Especially gatehouses would easily fall due to these weaknesses and let the attackers into the city. So it doesn't really surprise that Rome was taken and plundered almost a dozen times before the first medieval castles were built.
In the lore of game of thrones,seasons are really wild.Just try to have meaningful technological advancements to go beyond the age of castles when winter comes and take ages to go away.