Thank you so much. I need to do the pinion bearings in my sterling 10.5. this cleared up the whole inch pound spec thing for me. My initial thought was holy crap inch pounds is barely tight! But now I understand that its a measurement of the force required AFTER torquing down the nut
My pleasure Stephen. On some vehicles you will have to put quite a lot of force on the pinion nut to establish the rotating friction. Once you reach the minimum required torque with the torque wrench and if you are not able to get to preload by bumping up increments on the torque wrench, you can also go onto use a breaker bar, if needed, to get the extra tightness required to get that preload to spec. Sometimes even a snipe is required as some crush sleeves can really require some high torque values and good grunt to collapse the crush sleeve enough. My video was to spell out the process. Tighten though as you need to. Just a tip. Best wishes on your repair.
using the wrong torque gauge ?too strong for *that* need. edit: after saying that, i have to say *GREAT VIDEO* and in the comments i see you have REALLY great knowledge of diffs...
Excellent - and a life saver. Was scared of this, but you make things very clear. Wish I had that fancy dial wrench, but I’ll make due with a 1/4” beam wrench and a bunch of adapters =} Thank you!!!
I know this is old in 'internet years' but just an FYI if you didn't know, adding adapters and/or extensions to a torque wrench alters the readings. I can't remember where the chart is online but one exists to assist those who have to use adapters and extensions to correct for their use and achieve exact torque goals.
Great Video, would this also work on an existing setup that was leaking. I thought it required a Pinion seal however…. Turns out the nut was very loose and was leaking from the nut… can I reassemble using this method with a new seal? It’s a 1980 WS6 with disc brakes. In a 1970 RS Camaro… thx.
Thank you, the procedure will work with a new or used one. Just consult a manual to determine the used pinion bearing preload specs, as they will be set slightly lower than on a new bearing.
Here is the problem: asked gmc dealer to replace leaking pinion seal on the front differential of my 2011 4x4 5.3L 6 speed auto sierra. They recommended this repair one year ago, i just had it done november 11th 2021 with my yearly safety inspection. Ran two wheel drive sounded good. Set to " auto" on dashboard transfer case selector..sounded ok driving out of dealer. 9 days later selected " auto" again because of wet roads, fall leaves on road. Ran back roads to work, not interstate. Started hearing bearing noise, felt new vibration. Turned of auto reselected 2 wheel drive mode. Left work tried auto again..scraping bearing noise, then went into a sharp left bend in the road..the front end started grinding, talking, repititive clunk clunk clunk. Looked under truck, drive shaft from transfer case bolts tight, feel no binding in front drive shaft. Took it to dealer check oil..oil ok. Test drive the mechanic hears grinding..advises stay in 2wd mode. I now speculate here that the tech didnt properly set seal, bearing or properly set preload. Can it be reset properly now?
So let me be sure I understand - this is something you can do to *correct* preload on a previously setup diff? Or if you need to replace the pinion seal? Can this be done with the ring gear and axles in place (I get that the wheels/drums/calipers shouldn't be installed while checking with the inch-pound torque wrench).
Great question Griff. Yes drums should be off it has drum brakes or callipers disconnected from rotors if it has disc brakes. Likely best to remove rotors for best accuracy in case there are emergency brakes behind the rotors causing drag. The adjustment is something you do when are first assembling a differential from scratch with a new crush sleeve but also should be checked if the pinion seal is replaced. Many techs as a short cut, mark the pinion nut, pinion shaft end and yoke with a punch mark to note original position of the pinion nut before replacing a seal. Once removed and the seal is replaced, the nut is reinstalled to the same position. That often works in a pinch and is a time saver if your repair is on a vehicle that has miles on the differential and bearings. Pinion preload does normally drop once the bearings break in. So it is important to check that there is no endplay or slop in the pinion shaft once reinstalling the pinion nut back on the pinion shaft. As well, if there is little to no pinion preload remaining, after using the short cut method, it is worth going to the manual for reference sake and then tightening the pinion nut additionally to reach the correct rotating friction value (pinion bearing preload) as specified by the manufacture for used bearings, using the method I demonstrated. Thanks for the great question. Ben
I enjoyed watching the video, it was very informative. I was wondering, if I have a loose pinion nut on my truck what is the correct way to tighten it?
If your nut has loosened, I would be concerned about bearing and crush sleeve condition as the pinion bearings would have be knocking around on their races as they turn under load. With the axles in it is tricky to correctly set the pinion preload, but if remove the drums or calipers and rotors you can adjust pinion bearing preload. Support the vehicle and adjust it as I recommended in the video, but adjust the preload to the higher side of the spec range to accommodate the extra friction required to turn the axle shafts and you should be fine. If you are experiencing howling or wine, you may have to tear down the differential to inspect the bearings and gear condition. If everything runs quiet, you should be fine. If you cannot establish correct preload with the specified minimum pinion nut torque, you will need a crush sleeve.
This should help. This is from Summit Racing and it has, what I believe, is your specs. static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/fms-fordinstshtring-and-pinion.pdf
what do you do with out a crush sleve? are the shimms meant to bridge the gap from the front and rear bearings for preload? i cant for the life of me find a video showing preload with shims
Great question. Yes, the shims act in a similar manner as the crush sleeve. Both configurations maintain a specific distance between the pinion bearings so that they do not press excessively or insufficiently into their races. Shims are a little more work to set up, as you have to play with adding or subtracting shims until you obtain the correct rotating preload (friction). The Pinion nut is set to one specific torque, unlike designs that use a crush sleeve that has a minimum torque on the pinion nut but then can be torqued beyond that to crush the sleeve until the desired rotating friction is achieved.
Im trying to figure out where I went wrong I didnt lube the seal so perhaps that played some role. But if my pinion is only torqued to around 50Lbs it seems difficult to turn and the higher the torque load goes the more difficult and even impossible to turn the flange to the point it doesnt move at all. There is no up and down play even when the nut is only torqued to 20lbs. Do I need to punch the bearings down more to seat them or could it be a different issue.. ..
@@Michael-oc5ut Are you reusing your old crush sleeve or is it a new one? If it is new, it is possible that is an incorrect sleeve, so not allowing proper set up. If it is your old one, it likely is over-crushed and needing replacement.
Good idea to check that your bearing races are all the way in, for sure, as that certainly could also cause high readings before reaching minimum torque.
@@bensiemers5094 when I heated the bearing the first time I noticed it wasn't all the way on the pinion shaft the smaller bearing on the driveshaft side it seems like after I froze it then the thing slipped down and fit right. I'd like to avoid taking the whole thing back apart but I'll try to hit it in a few areas with a flat punch and hammer and see if changes things. It's a solid spacer are I measured to make sure the proper shims were there so I don't think it's a crush sleeve issue
@@Michael-oc5ut You really should avoid heating the bearings to install as to avoid softening the metal, unless only a few hundred degrees in an oven. They are meant to be cold pressed on. The small bearing doesn't need pressing as it is only a mild interference fit.
If you have a solid space, then you will have to play with shims until it can handle the specified pinion nut torque. It won't be stated as a minimum but generally a set torque. You will also have a specified pinion rotating torque in inch lbs that needs to be met. My procedure outlined only applies to crush sleeves and not pinion bearing spacers and shims.
Can you do the pinion preload torque reading while the differential gears are in and connected to the pinion? I’m doing this on a Ram 2500 with an AAM 11.5 rear diff. I’ll also take out the rear axles to make it to where there is no drag caused by wheels, brakes, etc. But I can’t get a straight answer as if this is accurate to do with diff gears still in place.
Hi - Ideally the pinion preload is done while you just have the pinion gear in. There will be added preload to move the mass of the gears, axles etc into the unit. As a work around, simply remove the tires, drums or rotors and calipers, mark your initial pinion nut position on the pinion shaft, pinion nut and yoke, to know initial tightening point. Start by measuring the pinon bearing preload while everything is together if you have it together and record it. Then back the pinion nut up just enough to eliminate any pinion preload. Then rotate once more the pinion nut and yoke to measure the preload that your other components create alone while turning the pinion using an inch pound torque wrench. Subtract the two to determine the friction you had to start with. Then calculate how much more friction you want to create to reach spec. Tighten the pinion nut up either to the initial marked points (or higher if needed) to determine the preload on pinion nut that must be added on to the rotating friction of the remaining parts in the differential that are in motion. Let me know if that makes sense. Have a great day.
@@bensiemers5094 I have another question if you could answer please. What if I am measuring the preload with the gears in, axles out - etc, when I measure the preload it measures 70 inch pounds at first (like as I first start to move the torque wrench), but when I get the torque wrench in a faster motion it only reads 20 inch pounds. What would be causing that? There is resistance at first but once the yoke begins to move the resistance becomes less, basically. BTW, the differential I’m working with recommended torque specs are 25-45 inch pounds with the other gears in the rear end connected using an old bearing. Any thoughts? Help is much appreciated.
Hi. That is a real good observation and it is normal to spike on the initial breaking torque to make it move. You don't want to take that reading as you are overcoming the sticking of the parts and the inertia to get it moving. Measure the preload while it is in reasonable motion. 25 to 45 inch pounds while in motion, sounds reasonable with all the gears being in the case. If you have gained some resistance while tightening from when the pinion is backed off, this is telling you that the pinion bearings are contacting the races and are creating some desired friction to prevent them hammering or plunging while rotating. If you are at 20 inch pounds I would give it a just whisper more to creep into the spec range. If they are used bearings, I would suggest staying on the lower side of the spec. Hope that helps bud.
Good question. The numbers will vary based on the model. The measurements should be done based on manual recommendations. Generally, the pinion measurement is done when it is the only part installed in the differential's carrier, in the car or on the bench for a removable carrier style. Pinion preload is best measured when the crown is not in contact. If you are doing it with crown gear installed, you will have to factor in the rotating friction it will add. Axles should also be removed. On many differentials the carrier is integral with the housing and cannot be removed from it.
I need to replace the seal. I dont' want to take it to a mechanic becuase what if the mechanic is new in his careeer and doesn't do the pinion nut correctly. I was wondering, If I mark the position of the nut before removing, then replace seal, and if I torque the nut to the same position will that be suitable to get it back to where it was before I replaced the seal? or is that an all out bad idea?
That requires a complicated response, as it is all dependent on the state of your differential, and what condition your differential's bearings and crush sleeve are in. You will have to assess that by checking for endplay and how tight the pinion nut is before starting. I would suggest marking the nut, pinion shaft and yoke alignment together first. Then check the manual's spec on pinion nut torque, and then see if your pinion nut can be tightened to that minimum pinion nut torque without it moving. If the nut holds its position, this is a good sign that your crush sleeve is healthy. However, if the pinion nut wants to move beyond the marks before it can reach the minimum torque spec, then you have a previous setup issue and are under the specified preload before starting your procedure. This could also indicate that you have a failing crush sleeve or previous improper tightening. Additionally, If endplay exists before removal, despite minimum spec being reached then there is an indication of bearing wear or once more an under tightened pinion nut. Saying all that, this shortcut is very is common, and works well, if you are able to remove the yoke, replace the seal and bring the marks back into alignment and still hold the minimum specified pinion nut torque in foot-pounds after tightening. Keep in mind, there should be no endplay and there should be some rotating friction on the pinion shaft. You can check specs on that. However, under regular driving, this normally lightens up, and this will likely be lower than specified due to natural bearing wear. For more accuracy, I do suggest that you remove the drums (or Calipers and discs) before starting, and then see what the initial pinion-bearing drag (preload) is through the entire unit. Typically we do preload with axles out, but this will give you a baseline to start. Once more, be sure to mark the pinion, the nut, and the yoke orientation together if you are doing the marking method. If you can get your hands on both a foot-pound and inch-pound torque wrench, you can determine if you have what you started with. You have to keep in mind that you are turning axles, so you will have to calculate for the extra 10 to 15 inch-pounds of drag that they could produce. Seals are frequently replaced with the shortcut method. But you have to be careful. Sorry for the long answer. I don't want to misguide you regarding the unspoken complications of the marking method. Technicians develop a feel for this method and they can take shortcuts very readily by recognizing the feel of torque, drag, and endplay confidently. Hopefully, this helps.
@@bensiemers5094 I understand why its not an easy answer. the only thing I do have going for me is that I bought the truck new in 2004 and this is the first time the pinion will have been removed. good idea to check end play before removing it.
@@Jimo225 I changed mine while i had the carrier out for Yukon Duragrip posi install. i measured pinion preload with carrier out with a dial torque wrench like this dude. I installed the seal but I used a new nut as you are supposed to never reuse a pinion nut and torqued it down to exact preload that I measured beforehand. Always ure some loctite red on pinion nut also. hope this helps.
Just had my front diff rebuilt with 4.11 gears. On a 2006 Commander. Started noticing a clunk then a vibration at 50mph. I checked things out and found play. on the front pinion, would that need to be redone again? Thanks
Hi John. Thanks for the comment. If you can feel up and down or plunging play, as opposed to rotational backlash (which some is normal and needed) then you would need to have that pinion reset up correctly, for you to prevent doing long term damage. They may have to replace the crush sleeve, if they can establish proper minimum torque and if this is causing you to loose preload on the pinion bearings prematurely. If there is no actual plunging or up and down play, then look for possibility of driveshaft phasing issues if you have a two piece driveshaft. U joint play or a loose unjoint connection going into the drive yoke can also cause clunking and vibration issues. Hope that helps. Ben
If by back and forth you mean in and out, no it should not have in and out play. There will be backlash, however, once the crown gear is installed and is in mesh with the pinion gear. Backlash is the play you get when twisting one direction and then opposite. I hope that helps.
I use Lubriplate, and you don't have to use as much as I did in the video, as I got a little generous while filming :). There are many other brands often called white grease (lithium based) Thanks for the comment. Have a great day.
Are you referring to the condition of the dust shield? This demonstration was shown on an instructional model which came apart many times. This particular model doesn't have an actual oil slinger on the pinion.
This is a Proto 1/4 inch dial torque wrench. They are available through amazon or Proto dealer. Expensive though. 350.00 dollars or so. A deflecting beam torque wrench is equally fine though at a much cheaper price.
@@Mr.BigweldNBTX I love proto but that dial torque wrench looks just like my precision instruments 1/4 dial torque wrench that can be had online for a good bit less than he paid. I believe that company is part of the snap on tool group.
Thank you for your comment. I made that one using a plasma cutter, chop saw and welder, some steel plate, pipe and bracing so it fit over the yoke. I have made several through the years for my students. I have used pipe wrenches in a pinch and jam bolts but it is hard to beat a tool made for the job. Summit racing has a universal pinion yoke tool (SME-906005) for a reasonable price) There will be other options online as well. :)
@@bensiemers5094 Oh yeah...I am so building one even though my midlife crisis 96 Firebird WS.6 hopefully won't require in-depth diff work very often. That thing is slicker than snot onna brass doorknob!
Nice video. I am an automotive instructor and found you to explain things very well!
Thank you so much. :)
Thank you so much. I need to do the pinion bearings in my sterling 10.5. this cleared up the whole inch pound spec thing for me. My initial thought was holy crap inch pounds is barely tight! But now I understand that its a measurement of the force required AFTER torquing down the nut
My pleasure Stephen. On some vehicles you will have to put quite a lot of force on the pinion nut to establish the rotating friction. Once you reach the minimum required torque with the torque wrench and if you are not able to get to preload by bumping up increments on the torque wrench, you can also go onto use a breaker bar, if needed, to get the extra tightness required to get that preload to spec. Sometimes even a snipe is required as some crush sleeves can really require some high torque values and good grunt to collapse the crush sleeve enough. My video was to spell out the process. Tighten though as you need to. Just a tip. Best wishes on your repair.
finally I understand, thank you!
Glad it helped! Thank for your feedback.
Ben you made this seem so simple, thanks so much
Thank you
Best video I’ve seen on this!! Answered so many questions I’m going to be regearing my Jeep to 4.56 soon so this helps a lot thank you very much!
Thanks a bunch. I am glad it helped. Have a great day.
Thanks - a first rate explanation!
You are so very welcome. Thank you.
Outstanding!
using the wrong torque gauge ?too strong for *that* need.
edit: after saying that, i have to say *GREAT VIDEO* and in the comments i see you have REALLY great knowledge of diffs...
Excellent - and a life saver. Was scared of this, but you make things very clear. Wish I had that fancy dial wrench, but I’ll make due with a 1/4” beam wrench and a bunch of adapters =}
Thank you!!!
Thank you. 🙂
@@bensiemers5094 for the record, I think I nailed it. I’m on the high side of the torque range, but it spins smooth and freely. THANK YOU, again!!
Nice work Ron. Thumbs up to you. Cheers. :)
I know this is old in 'internet years' but just an FYI if you didn't know, adding adapters and/or extensions to a torque wrench alters the readings. I can't remember where the chart is online but one exists to assist those who have to use adapters and extensions to correct for their use and achieve exact torque goals.
Great point Gregory. Absolutely. There are charts somewhere for that, or you can use a little math.
Thanks for the info!!!
Outstanding video!
Thanks so much. I am glad you found it of some value. I much appreciate the feedback. Have a great day.
Well done. Simple
Thank you so much
Great Video, would this also work on an existing setup that was leaking. I thought it required a Pinion seal however…. Turns out the nut was very loose and was leaking from the nut… can I reassemble using this method with a new seal? It’s a 1980 WS6 with disc brakes. In a 1970 RS Camaro… thx.
Thank you, the procedure will work with a new or used one. Just consult a manual to determine the used pinion bearing preload specs, as they will be set slightly lower than on a new bearing.
Thank you
My pleasure
Here is the problem: asked gmc dealer to replace leaking pinion seal on the front differential of my 2011 4x4 5.3L 6 speed auto sierra. They recommended this repair one year ago, i just had it done november 11th 2021 with my yearly safety inspection. Ran two wheel drive sounded good. Set to " auto" on dashboard transfer case selector..sounded ok driving out of dealer. 9 days later selected " auto" again because of wet roads, fall leaves on road. Ran back roads to work, not interstate. Started hearing bearing noise, felt new vibration. Turned of auto reselected 2 wheel drive mode. Left work tried auto again..scraping bearing noise, then went into a sharp left bend in the road..the front end started grinding, talking, repititive clunk clunk clunk.
Looked under truck, drive shaft from transfer case bolts tight, feel no binding in front drive shaft.
Took it to dealer check oil..oil ok. Test drive the mechanic hears grinding..advises stay in 2wd mode. I now speculate here that the tech didnt properly set seal, bearing or properly set preload.
Can it be reset properly now?
So let me be sure I understand - this is something you can do to *correct* preload on a previously setup diff? Or if you need to replace the pinion seal? Can this be done with the ring gear and axles in place (I get that the wheels/drums/calipers shouldn't be installed while checking with the inch-pound torque wrench).
Great question Griff. Yes drums should be off it has drum brakes or callipers disconnected from rotors if it has disc brakes. Likely best to remove rotors for best accuracy in case there are emergency brakes behind the rotors causing drag. The adjustment is something you do when are first assembling a differential from scratch with a new crush sleeve but also should be checked if the pinion seal is replaced. Many techs as a short cut, mark the pinion nut, pinion shaft end and yoke with a punch mark to note original position of the pinion nut before replacing a seal. Once removed and the seal is replaced, the nut is reinstalled to the same position. That often works in a pinch and is a time saver if your repair is on a vehicle that has miles on the differential and bearings. Pinion preload does normally drop once the bearings break in. So it is important to check that there is no endplay or slop in the pinion shaft once reinstalling the pinion nut back on the pinion shaft. As well, if there is little to no pinion preload remaining, after using the short cut method, it is worth going to the manual for reference sake and then tightening the pinion nut additionally to reach the correct rotating friction value (pinion bearing preload) as specified by the manufacture for used bearings, using the method I demonstrated. Thanks for the great question.
Ben
@@bensiemers5094 *What a great explanation,wish everyone soaked it in really good, it is to the point and extremely useful when you need it*.
I enjoyed watching the video, it was very informative. I was wondering, if I have a loose pinion nut on my truck what is the correct way to tighten it?
If your nut has loosened, I would be concerned about bearing and crush sleeve condition as the pinion bearings would have be knocking around on their races as they turn under load. With the axles in it is tricky to correctly set the pinion preload, but if remove the drums or calipers and rotors you can adjust pinion bearing preload. Support the vehicle and adjust it as I recommended in the video, but adjust the preload to the higher side of the spec range to accommodate the extra friction required to turn the axle shafts and you should be fine. If you are experiencing howling or wine, you may have to tear down the differential to inspect the bearings and gear condition. If everything runs quiet, you should be fine. If you cannot establish correct preload with the specified minimum pinion nut torque, you will need a crush sleeve.
Great Video! I'll be replacing the pinion bearings on my 2001 ford 9.75 rear. Do you know a reliable source for torque specs?
Many Thanks!
I am not sure what vehicle you have the rear axle from. Is this a pickup?
I am taking that this is a removable carrier diff?
It’s a ford E-150 club wagon
This should help. This is from Summit Racing and it has, what I believe, is your specs. static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/fms-fordinstshtring-and-pinion.pdf
Thank you
@@bensiemers5094 This is Perfect, thanks so much!
thank yu
what do you do with out a crush sleve? are the shimms meant to bridge the gap from the front and rear bearings for preload? i cant for the life of me find a video showing preload with shims
Great question. Yes, the shims act in a similar manner as the crush sleeve. Both configurations maintain a specific distance between the pinion bearings so that they do not press excessively or insufficiently into their races. Shims are a little more work to set up, as you have to play with adding or subtracting shims until you obtain the correct rotating preload (friction). The Pinion nut is set to one specific torque, unlike designs that use a crush sleeve that has a minimum torque on the pinion nut but then can be torqued beyond that to crush the sleeve until the desired rotating friction is achieved.
Im trying to figure out where I went wrong I didnt lube the seal so perhaps that played some role. But if my pinion is only torqued to around 50Lbs it seems difficult to turn and the higher the torque load goes the more difficult and even impossible to turn the flange to the point it doesnt move at all. There is no up and down play even when the nut is only torqued to 20lbs. Do I need to punch the bearings down more to seat them or could it be a different issue.. ..
@@Michael-oc5ut Are you reusing your old crush sleeve or is it a new one? If it is new, it is possible that is an incorrect sleeve, so not allowing proper set up. If it is your old one, it likely is over-crushed and needing replacement.
Good idea to check that your bearing races are all the way in, for sure, as that certainly could also cause high readings before reaching minimum torque.
@@bensiemers5094 when I heated the bearing the first time I noticed it wasn't all the way on the pinion shaft the smaller bearing on the driveshaft side it seems like after I froze it then the thing slipped down and fit right. I'd like to avoid taking the whole thing back apart but I'll try to hit it in a few areas with a flat punch and hammer and see if changes things. It's a solid spacer are I measured to make sure the proper shims were there so I don't think it's a crush sleeve issue
@@Michael-oc5ut You really should avoid heating the bearings to install as to avoid softening the metal, unless only a few hundred degrees in an oven. They are meant to be cold pressed on. The small bearing doesn't need pressing as it is only a mild interference fit.
If you have a solid space, then you will have to play with shims until it can handle the specified pinion nut torque. It won't be stated as a minimum but generally a set torque. You will also have a specified pinion rotating torque in inch lbs that needs to be met. My procedure outlined only applies to crush sleeves and not pinion bearing spacers and shims.
Can you do the pinion preload torque reading while the differential gears are in and connected to the pinion? I’m doing this on a Ram 2500 with an AAM 11.5 rear diff. I’ll also take out the rear axles to make it to where there is no drag caused by wheels, brakes, etc.
But I can’t get a straight answer as if this is accurate to do with diff gears still in place.
Hi - Ideally the pinion preload is done while you just have the pinion gear in. There will be added preload to move the mass of the gears, axles etc into the unit. As a work around, simply remove the tires, drums or rotors and calipers, mark your initial pinion nut position on the pinion shaft, pinion nut and yoke, to know initial tightening point. Start by measuring the pinon bearing preload while everything is together if you have it together and record it. Then back the pinion nut up just enough to eliminate any pinion preload. Then rotate once more the pinion nut and yoke to measure the preload that your other components create alone while turning the pinion using an inch pound torque wrench. Subtract the two to determine the friction you had to start with. Then calculate how much more friction you want to create to reach spec. Tighten the pinion nut up either to the initial marked points (or higher if needed) to determine the preload on pinion nut that must be added on to the rotating friction of the remaining parts in the differential that are in motion. Let me know if that makes sense. Have a great day.
@@bensiemers5094 this helps a lot! Thank you
@@bensiemers5094 I have another question if you could answer please. What if I am measuring the preload with the gears in, axles out - etc, when I measure the preload it measures 70 inch pounds at first (like as I first start to move the torque wrench), but when I get the torque wrench in a faster motion it only reads 20 inch pounds. What would be causing that? There is resistance at first but once the yoke begins to move the resistance becomes less, basically.
BTW, the differential I’m working with recommended torque specs are 25-45 inch pounds with the other gears in the rear end connected using an old bearing.
Any thoughts? Help is much appreciated.
Hi. That is a real good observation and it is normal to spike on the initial breaking torque to make it move. You don't want to take that reading as you are overcoming the sticking of the parts and the inertia to get it moving. Measure the preload while it is in reasonable motion. 25 to 45 inch pounds while in motion, sounds reasonable with all the gears being in the case. If you have gained some resistance while tightening from when the pinion is backed off, this is telling you that the pinion bearings are contacting the races and are creating some desired friction to prevent them hammering or plunging while rotating. If you are at 20 inch pounds I would give it a just whisper more to creep into the spec range. If they are used bearings, I would suggest staying on the lower side of the spec. Hope that helps bud.
@@bensiemers5094 that helps! Thank you
And these numbers are with the carrier OUT of the housing correct?
Good question. The numbers will vary based on the model. The measurements should be done based on manual recommendations. Generally, the pinion measurement is done when it is the only part installed in the differential's carrier, in the car or on the bench for a removable carrier style. Pinion preload is best measured when the crown is not in contact. If you are doing it with crown gear installed, you will have to factor in the rotating friction it will add. Axles should also be removed. On many differentials the carrier is integral with the housing and cannot be removed from it.
I need to replace the seal. I dont' want to take it to a mechanic becuase what if the mechanic is new in his careeer and doesn't do the pinion nut correctly. I was wondering, If I mark the position of the nut before removing, then replace seal, and if I torque the nut to the same position will that be suitable to get it back to where it was before I replaced the seal? or is that an all out bad idea?
That requires a complicated response, as it is all dependent on the state of your differential, and what condition your differential's bearings and crush sleeve are in. You will have to assess that by checking for endplay and how tight the pinion nut is before starting. I would suggest marking the nut, pinion shaft and yoke alignment together first. Then check the manual's spec on pinion nut torque, and then see if your pinion nut can be tightened to that minimum pinion nut torque without it moving. If the nut holds its position, this is a good sign that your crush sleeve is healthy. However, if the pinion nut wants to move beyond the marks before it can reach the minimum torque spec, then you have a previous setup issue and are under the specified preload before starting your procedure. This could also indicate that you have a failing crush sleeve or previous improper tightening. Additionally, If endplay exists before removal, despite minimum spec being reached then there is an indication of bearing wear or once more an under tightened pinion nut.
Saying all that, this shortcut is very is common, and works well, if you are able to remove the yoke, replace the seal and bring the marks back into alignment and still hold the minimum specified pinion nut torque in foot-pounds after tightening. Keep in mind, there should be no endplay and there should be some rotating friction on the pinion shaft. You can check specs on that. However, under regular driving, this normally lightens up, and this will likely be lower than specified due to natural bearing wear.
For more accuracy, I do suggest that you remove the drums (or Calipers and discs) before starting, and then see what the initial pinion-bearing drag (preload) is through the entire unit. Typically we do preload with axles out, but this will give you a baseline to start. Once more, be sure to mark the pinion, the nut, and the yoke orientation together if you are doing the marking method. If you can get your hands on both a foot-pound and inch-pound torque wrench, you can determine if you have what you started with. You have to keep in mind that you are turning axles, so you will have to calculate for the extra 10 to 15 inch-pounds of drag that they could produce.
Seals are frequently replaced with the shortcut method. But you have to be careful. Sorry for the long answer. I don't want to misguide you regarding the unspoken complications of the marking method. Technicians develop a feel for this method and they can take shortcuts very readily by recognizing the feel of torque, drag, and endplay confidently. Hopefully, this helps.
@@bensiemers5094 I understand why its not an easy answer. the only thing I do have going for me is that I bought the truck new in 2004 and this is the first time the pinion will have been removed. good idea to check end play before removing it.
@@Jimo225 I changed mine while i had the carrier out for Yukon Duragrip posi install. i measured pinion preload with carrier out with a dial torque wrench like this dude. I installed the seal but I used a new nut as you are supposed to never reuse a pinion nut and torqued it down to exact preload that I measured beforehand. Always ure some loctite red on pinion nut also. hope this helps.
Just had my front diff rebuilt with 4.11 gears. On a 2006 Commander. Started noticing a clunk then a vibration at 50mph. I checked things out and found play. on the front pinion, would that need to be redone again?
Thanks
Hi John. Thanks for the comment. If you can feel up and down or plunging play, as opposed to rotational backlash (which some is normal and needed) then you would need to have that pinion reset up correctly, for you to prevent doing long term damage. They may have to replace the crush sleeve, if they can establish proper minimum torque and if this is causing you to loose preload on the pinion bearings prematurely. If there is no actual plunging or up and down play, then look for possibility of driveshaft phasing issues if you have a two piece driveshaft. U joint play or a loose unjoint connection going into the drive yoke can also cause clunking and vibration issues. Hope that helps. Ben
Thanks for the information. There is up and down movement and the driveline is new.
The folks who rebuilt it will have to fix that up for you. Best wishes John. Have a great day.
Is the pinion supposed to have back and forth play?
If by back and forth you mean in and out, no it should not have in and out play. There will be backlash, however, once the crown gear is installed and is in mesh with the pinion gear. Backlash is the play you get when twisting one direction and then opposite. I hope that helps.
What size socket is that for a 02 Silverado
Quite likely a 1 1/4 or 32 mm, I am guessing!
What is the name of white lub you used?
I use Lubriplate, and you don't have to use as much as I did in the video, as I got a little generous while filming :). There are many other brands often called white grease (lithium based) Thanks for the comment. Have a great day.
Hello, Sir. I assume that the wheels must be off. Is that correct? Thanks.
Im asking because i forgot to mark the threads on the nut.
Yes, correct
and the drums or calipers must come off as well because they will drag, affecting the reading.
You bet. Thank you for that.
What happened to the oil slinger?
Are you referring to the condition of the dust shield? This demonstration was shown on an instructional model which came apart many times. This particular model doesn't have an actual oil slinger on the pinion.
great video. Where can I get that type of inch pound torque wrench you are using?
This is a Proto 1/4 inch dial torque wrench. They are available through amazon or Proto dealer. Expensive though. 350.00 dollars or so. A deflecting beam torque wrench is equally fine though at a much cheaper price.
@@bensiemers5094 Thanks!
@@Mr.BigweldNBTX I love proto but that dial torque wrench looks just like my precision instruments 1/4 dial torque wrench that can be had online for a good bit less than he paid. I believe that company is part of the snap on tool group.
Where did you get that holding tool it's everything when doing that job
Thank you for your comment. I made that one using a plasma cutter, chop saw and welder, some steel plate, pipe and bracing so it fit over the yoke. I have made several through the years for my students. I have used pipe wrenches in a pinch and jam bolts but it is hard to beat a tool made for the job. Summit racing has a universal pinion yoke tool (SME-906005) for a reasonable price) There will be other options online as well. :)
@@bensiemers5094 Oh yeah...I am so building one even though my midlife crisis 96 Firebird WS.6 hopefully won't require in-depth diff work very often. That thing is slicker than snot onna brass doorknob!
You can't go wrong with extra tools being there when you need them. Have a great day.