"The Washington Post noted that no medical evidence that Khelif has XY chromosomes or elevated levels of testosterone had ever been published." Yeah, so pissed.
@@manuelpulla532 You still haven't answered whether it was a male or female & where you get your news/sources from. How are you any different from Joe lol
she is a woman though. has more t than other females, but she is a female. might as well rule out all black athletes if she cant compete seeing as they have better genetics. she was born a woman. is literally a woman. its like disqualifying a kenyan because they were born genetically superior to others.
@@Kicking2bAlive Too many people are just too stupid to understand that. You have to start using analogies. One I just came up with is pretending human beings didn't have a sex and we just spontaneously appeared.. and the only differences between us were that some were born with one eye, and others born with two eyes.. the rate of each was about 50/50. So let's pretend we had a boxing league for people with only one eye... To ensure that, we only allowed the people born with one eye. Maybe some boxer comes along who was born with both eyes, but lost sight in one of them. Well how are we supposed to absolutely know that person has 0 sight in that second eye whatsoever? For that reason, we simply make it so only the people born with the one eye can compete.. Maybe someone was born with both eyes but literally lost one of them in an accident, and that person wants to compete in the one-eye category. Maybe technically speaking there would be a way for us to possibly consider that based on any number of metrics such as 'how much' of the eye was lost etc. Or how much we can prove there is no sight in it. That all seems like a big waste of energy when all we have to do is just say "you have to be born with one eye." After having typed all that I now realize that too was a waste of time 😂
@@Magneticitistno waste of time, I think I'm right there with you. Quik questions tho: I still have BOTH eyes but I FEEL like I should have been born with only one... sooo where does that put me? The 2 eyed bracket? Ok, understood
@@michaelbrown8955 They're undoing everything they fought for by fighting to undo everything they fought for. Feminism did this, and until real women stand up for themselves and refuse to compete with the trans athletes, it's only going to get worse. They are being cowards and are just bending over and taking it.
I am a 61 year old woman. I was in the army long ago when that was very unusual. I was a medical supply specialist. That was fine and opened new opportunities for women. I went to college. I remember our girls unit running the obstacle course. We were fit, we did great! Whooo who! Then we watched the male unit run it after us (whose start was delayed because we took longer than the alloted time). Drill sgt told them to make up for us and get back on schedule. They halved our time. I honestly believe women have done this to themselves by insisting that "anything you can do, I can do better". Men can't retain any organization to themselves. Not combat duty, not scouting. Now women expect men to defend women's sports. Biology suddenly matters.
An elementary level of biology taught me the differences between male and female. Theres only 2 genders, Male Is a Male and a Female Is a Female. Debate ends there
this is not about that there was a similar case in track and field a long time ago and she was allowed to compete. genetic problems are very different from deciding to switch team one day like lia Thomas. altho i don't think they should be allowed to compete people are making it look like it's a tr*ns issue which is not at all.
I talked with a physician on FB concerning DSD and Swyer-which he is not. This is what he said leaving me out. Facts from a doctor: In 2016 Olympics all 3 medalists in the women’s 800 m were XY with the DSD 5-ARD deficiency. This condition prevents the development of male external genitalia but sufferers have testes not ovaries . When they reach puberty the testes produce normal male levels of testosterone and the typical changes of voice muscle hair. This gives them huge athletic advantage over Females XX. These 3 were banned by the highest sport court. Shamefully the IOC have not nullified their medals despite admitting they are biologically male. IK the Algerian boxer has all the features of this condition including confirmed XY and high testosterone. The boxer could easily provide a simple cheek swab if they are XX but they have already decided to not challenge the IBA ban. Yes as a baby DSD look like girls but they go through normal male puberty and in sport that is a huge class advantage. The Algerian team will know this and are exploiting a ridiculous IOC loophole. DSDs are not super rare and there are plenty of good academic papers explaining them. The ignorance displayed on many posts here is breathtaking. Males XY should not be fighting XX. No if or buts. My fellow physicians in elite sports medicine all agree that any person who goes through male puberty has immutable advantage. We are silenced by political organizations including IOC. 5-ARD deficiency have variable phenotypes but all but a minority are brought up as girls despite XY bc the deficit is specifically for external genitalia development. Studies show that in every other respect ie muscle mass O2 max lung capacity and more, they are male. (Brain?)-There is some evidence that even before puberty or in utero a Y chromosome does influence our neurological systems.
That's correct but since then the IOC changed their guidelines. Their guidelines actually now allow intersex to compete in whichever division they identify as. it's an absolute shyt show because it seems recent movements and gender theory have gotten into law and human rights... so now in the European courts Gender identity human rights seems to be trumping females rights to compete fairly in sports competitions.
I think some “female” basketball players may have this too. In all fairness mistakes on the birth certificates should be corrected when chromosome testing is available. I do not see any reason why they could not have a special division of sports.
The Algerian boxing team released a statement saying that claiming this is a man is a "Zionist conspiracy." I don't think they're honest actors, and I'm not convinced that the boxer actually thinks he's a woman.
Imagine you found out you were the opposite gender right now and how devastating that would be. It wouldn’t be your fault. Imane is going off what doctors told her and how she was raised. She’s innocent in this whole thing and ppl demonizing her are dick heads
regardless of gender, this shows how willfully ignorant some people are. it's actually pathetic how many adults would rather double down on their ignorance instead of admitting fault or even considering the possibility they were wrong.
And also shows how the media is willing to allow the ignorance to continue rather than explaining the situation in the first place. I don't think i read a single news outlet make it clear that she wasn't born a man with a dick and balls which a lot of people assumed was the case.
That's funny 😄 I ve worked in North Africa for 6 years, Hermaphrodite are raised in secret as women, however they don't usually hookup with men but hookup with women at female hammams. In there defense they don't try to trick men and keep their banana to a desperate housewife 😅
@MakHash420 Well, the IBA seemed to have reason to determine them inelligble, and the IOC is using non-scientifc terms like "She was raised a girl and it says girl on her passport" as evidence. This is all easy to solve, but we are being gaslit. If these two ladies were 100% biologically female, it would be easy for the IOC to prove. But maybe I am just a hater against Algeria and Taiwan that's it. You got me.
@@MakHash420 Science is based on emperical evidence, which is also known as proof. It's what makes aeroplanes fly and why we don't build rockets on prayers.
@@MakHash420 why are you asking for proof on the internet? Common sense can tell you that if the olympic committee doesn't have or shows proof that they are females, they are hiding something. It is simple to show scientific proof if someone is a male or female. But even with proof they and people like you will say it is not legitimate.
The response from the boxing association was perfect. We can't say the results because of privacy, but we only test for chromosomes, and they aren't female.
The gets was for chromosomes AND testosterone, you could fail for either, which is why they initially accused her of cheating afterwards instead of being a man.
I think it’s more accurate to say that Khelif is intersex. At birth, the doctors described her as a girl, due to her external genitalia. However, she also has XY chromosomes. So, she probably has a medical condition called SDS. I feel sympathy for her, since it wasn’t her choice, and she’s been raised as a girl since birth. Therefore, if she wants to call herself a woman, I think that’s fine. However, we can also acknowledge that her condition (SDS) gives her an unfair advantage over biological women. The solution seems pretty clear - to compete in the women’s division, the athlete must have XX chromosomes AND pass the testosterone test.
biological advantage? you think wembanyama or lebron james does not have biological advantages? phelps or bolt? the whole of olympics is about celebrating the genetic freaks of humanity. hopefully with some dignity towards the participants
@@hayekianmanImagine if we had to rethink and rename everything in society to account for every possible abnormality/deviation which affects less than 0.1% of the population. Is that what you suggest we should do? 🙄
@@KaituoKid They have weight classes so there isn't an unfair advantage of power or size in general, so skill is more required that way. I think being a man is an unfair advantage when fighting a woman lol... wait not I think, I KNOW
The problem is that doesn’t apply in this case, a intersex person could posses a normal looking vagina but also have internal testicles that produce male levels of testosterone.
If Imane is suing multiple parties for defamation, it likely means she believes that several individuals or organizations have made false and damaging statements about her. Defamation cases can be complex, as they involve proving that the statements in question were not only false but also made with a certain level of negligence or intent to harm. In a defamation lawsuit, the plaintiff (Imane, in this case) would need to demonstrate that: 1. The statements made were false. 2. The statements were communicated to others (published). 3. The statements caused harm to her reputation. 4. In some cases, that the defendant acted with negligence or actual malice. The outcome of such a case could vary widely depending on the evidence, the jurisdiction, and the specific nature of the statements. Is there something specific you’d like to know about this situation or defamation cases?
Years ago I did Karate for 8 years .I regular had to spar with a high grade black belt woman ,who was recognised as the best in the world ( she died some years back ) There was a unwritten rule we did not go in hard.She was tough and quite strong ( she was graded by sensie Enoeda ) She would go in hard against us that is no doubt .
@@John-ob7dh No matter how much effort or shots you put into it, at this time? It's much better to go fight women as man, then to fight men as a woman lol. I mean, maybe if you put Cyborg or Nunes on some type of new shit that they can beat average men in the UFC. But not Jon Jones etc.:D
So what's the test? She was born a female with female genitals and never had a penis. I guess that's not good enough for you just because you want to turn this into a trans issue. Americans are insane.
In 2023 she was approved to participate in the tournament got even to the finals THEN the IBA decided to disqualify her for high testosterone when she appealed they refused her 🤐🤔 Now in the press conference IBA wa asked to release her medical records they also refused🤔 She boxed before as a woman in her conutry in africa and in arab tournament and the Olympics All had no problem with her but the IBA suddenly has 🤔🤨fishy
She already did another test before the IBA tournament started and she passed and was a female She only became a male after she defeated the Russian boxer Keep in mind that IBA is corrupted ever since they moved the headquarters to Russia and started serving Russian interests only. And they bribed the Italian boxer to make that whole drama with Imane
@@aquarius3524 Not even remotely true. The Olympic board said they looked at "her" (his) passport and it said female so that's good enough for them. But hey, lets just listen to the left wing said Russia Russia Russia again. Wow.
And the worst thing is that it is not possible to even discuss it without censorship. All legacy media is saying only one thing and if you have doubts about it you can't even voice them.
You’re able to freely discuss it without censorship what are you on about, the issue is when you start to blatantly spread misinformation to fuel narratives, the most reasonable response to this situation should’ve been “well we don’t have all the information yet let’s see what comes out” but instead people just hopped on it with their anti left bs, trying to pin this as “this is what the left wants, men beating up woman”, but no it just turns out it’s a woman who has higher testosterone than other woman which is completely common in both men and woman sports, those with higher testosterone tend to do better, it’s nothing new. It was such a non issue, and people just berated that women with hate to push a narrative
@@VGDomination that’s the point, he talk about everyone being on steroids, he even talk shit about TJ Dilllashaw and other fighters like Vítor Belfort like in this video… buuut when someone mentions Jon Jones he act like don’t understand (No hate on Joe btw) juts pointing out lol
The World Boxing Organization (WBO) also refuses to license Imane Khelif as a woman. The Vice President for the WBO said Khelif is a biological man. So it's not just the International Boxing Association saying this. So are we gonna just ignore two boxing organizations because the IOC says a passport is enough verification??? This doesnt make sense.
I think you don't know yet where she is from. I was born in Algeria. Secondly, Algeria does not have a headquarters for sexual transformations, so it cannot transform itself. It is not like America or Europe, which defends gay people, but in Algeria, homosexuality is not prohibited. By a government and also by a people. Do not forget that this is a Muslim people, and in Islam, homosexuality is forbidden, which in your country is permitted.
@@leosdaddykalmargreat, did you need to check your mums chromosomes? What if she is xy? Because some xy do give birth, are you saying men can give birth 😮?
They did it because they need to artificially force people to talk about this absolutely miniscule anomalous percentage of individuals. They're constantly trying to make it seem bigger than it is, and that 99% of us don't all think the same thing about it
Spot on. The numbers on this don’t remotely qualify to being an issue even worthy of conversation. But in this country if you’ll whine long enough and loud enough about any kind of non inclusion, you’ll get the attention of people needing something to make into a political football.
Medically no, that’s an old term but she isn’t one anyway. True hermaphroditism now called OT DSD ovo -testicular difference of sexual development is someone who has both gonadal tissues or a combo of a normal gonad and/or ovo testis
Nobody is arguing that Amanda Nunez can beat some/ most average guys not active in any athletic activities.....but she's not beating a male fighter in her same category period
In my opinion if you have XY chromosome you should participate in the male category and if you have XX chromosome you should participate in the female category. Now if you have XXY chromosome or some sweyer syndrome etc etc then you should not be allowed to participate in any. Either a new category should be created for them or just tell them to pack their bags and do something else. Any fighter with XX or XY chromosome but also has certain conditions for example if a female with XX chromosome is producing male level testosterone(maybe due to some genetic condition or some mutations idk) should also not be allowed to participate OR some measures like HRT should be used to regulate that testosterone (though I don't know the legality of that). I am open to arguments if I am wrong do tell.
So you want all boxers to go through genetic testing? Any losing opponent will just claim “I want her tested because she kind of looks masculine!” Or other boxers will purposely look feminine to hide their masculine features. What if the boxer was born with a male or female private part? Do we need to get that checked too? What about the feminine looking men? Let’s check them too!
That's crazy. Allowing poeple some privilege and others not is insane. Why not ban everybody from sports since no one has same test measurements(testosterone etc)
These tests are possible at the Olympics level but how do you regulate this at grass roots level? Like do you think the child choosing a boxing/fighting career in high school knows their testosterone level and chromosome disorders? What happens when the child reaches Olympics after years of training and your "tests" tell them to pack bags and go home?? Also, hormone levels in young athletes are not at all stable due to puberty and what not.
The fact that you can't find a straight up answer on Wikipedia says something.(I'm not saying Wikipedia is that credible, but is she male or female....Intersex..... what's up?)
Yes because Wikipedia is the most trustworthy source...not like they edit everything when there's a controversy or people questioning the legitimacy of the topic
Sick people doing sick choices, and then we cannot say it out loud, because it will hurt their feelings. But it's not a choice to be sick, so therefore it is a political... support, to force other people to play their game.
I don't understand. IOC has rules about the level of testosterone for people with DSD in order to participate in female competitions, so how could they base everything on passport?
Each of the boxers took two DNA tests: the first while participating in championships in Turkey in 2022, and the second in India in 2023. (The results of the 2022 tests were delayed and didn’t come out until after the championship was over. They came back ‘male’ but it was too late to halt that year’s event. As soon as the athletes returned to compete the next year, a new set of tests was immediately ordered - and this time the results came back in time to expel the men from the ring.) The tests were handled by their respective countries’ independent national laboratories, all fully certified and accredited by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport - ironically, the very same body that arbitrates drug testing for the Olympics. Tellingly, the boxers both declined to appeal the results, and both dispatched letters from their lawyers refusing permission to release the details to the public, citing medical privacy. Nevertheless, the full lab reports have leaked, and they’ve been seen, vouched for, and described in detail by highly respected journalists, including here by Alan Abrahamson, formerly of the LA Times and NBC Sports. The test results are ironclad and conclusive: the boxers are male. - from Arty Morty substance
But i believe they are saying the algerian girl has female reproductive organs i.e vagina. But XY chromosome.it seems more like a genetic defect than a man who transitioned to be a woman.
it’s a bit more complicated than that eg., she was born with female genitalia. . I see where you are coming from but here is the question: Traditionally, people born with male genitalia and XY are seen as male, and people born with female genitalia and XX are seen as female. But happens if the chromosomes are switched? That is called intersex. . So, what do you in that situation? I think instead of attacking people let’s try to understand, be empathic, learn, and then find a solution that’s fair and makes sense bc people will cont to be born like this, and don’t we say god loves all his children? . So let’s love everyone, and figure out a solution instead of bringing people down, hating and attacking people. We are all human at the end of the day.
@saajandoshi NO, he wasn't born with female genitalia. That's a fucking lie. *HE* was born with a specific protein missing from his DNA while forming in the womb, which is responsible for creating the penis towards the later end of gestation. HE was born with a malformed penis, NOT female genitalia. There are numerous qualified scientists, biologists and other health professionals weighing in on the topic on a professional neutral way.
Males “typically” have XY chromosomes, but there are conditions that lead some individuals to develop as females. For example, Androgen insensitivity syndrome and Swyer syndrome. Intersex, where the individual does not tick all the boxes of male or female characteristics is more common than you think, and is one of the reasons sex and gender is not as black and white as some people believe.
Yeah why don't girly men get their own protected sports? Why does society deny them the opportunity? And why don't we have pro basketball for men under 6'? Not fair that only tall freaks get to be millionaires. What about the rest of us? We should sue!
I think the opening ceremony guaranteed we wouldn't get an honest answer on this. And the Russian boxing organization may have paid for the tests, but the tests were conducted by unbiased 3rd parties in India and Turkey. The IOC had to change their own testing rules to make the results illegitimate.
The theory is that the IBA started investigating these boxers because it was biased toward a Russian boxer who got defeated, but in my mind that doesn't undermine the IBA's credibility unless that Russian was also competing in the Olympics. Why would they care about the Olympic boxing events if they didn't really believe these athletes should not be eligible to box? 😄
@@goodlows_ghost I could buy a theory that said that the IBA tested them, saw that they didn't have XX chromosomes. And then changed their eligibility requirements to compete in the female division to require XX. But the trans ideologists aren't proposing a reasonable conspiracy theory like that, they instead claim that they outright lie about the results of their DNA tests. As if the laboratories wouldn't then just go out and say that they never tested them or that the IBA are lying about the results.
@@goodlows_ghost The IBA is stirring this shit up because they're mad the IOC replaced them. And they're doing everything in their power to discredit the IOC. Based on what i've seen in this comment section, I'd say the IBA's disinformation campaign is working spectacularly well.
This is not a new problem in Olympic games, there are cases like these dating for more than 20 years. The only thing new is the emotional involvement of the public.
I mean it was never even an issue until genetic testing came about - people with the same condition as Khelif have been competing in women’s sports since women’s sports were a thing
This isnt a trans person though. I was pissedd at first too but its a legit female just with some birth condition ANY trans im 100p on the side of not letting them compete This chick seems like it was just a bad birth defect
@Goldenboi77 which was cheating, men competing against women . Now before they might not have the tests for this , but they have now, these two boxers are Male.
There are IOC rules about people with DSD and there are rules about the testosterone level that would allow such a person to participate in women sports.
I wouldn't blame the athlete if the Olympics had guidelines, even if I don't necessarily agree with them, if the athlete conforms to them. But this is more complicated. I think that this all should have been worked out well before the Olympics started so that this controversy wouldn't happen, but I bet the Olympics wanted to make a ruckus about all of this. Boxing *by far* is the most egregious sport to have a man compete in against women.
We shouldn't even be discussing this, just like we shouldn't be trying to accommodate any trans person if it could potentially endanger any non trans people. It's simply just a numbers game as things have always been. Discussing this is almost pretending as if intersex people are all over the place. Now we have intersex or trans people basically being used as an excuse to eliminate a womens category. Imagine we were some corporate management of a company which makes gloves and we were having a meeting over how many fingers we were going to accommodate with our gloves. Does that make any sense? "Should we make them for 6 fingers? What about 7? What if someone only has 3 fingers? How do we accommodate the people with 8 fingers?" It's like holy crap.. just make gloves for 5 fingers because that's how humans work... then let me know when you have billions of people banging on your door because your 5 fingered gloves exclude their 6 or 7 or 8 finger having hands.
I remember more than once champions who were under suspicion of using performance enhancing drugs swore they weren't using drugs and people defended them. In almost every case, they were exposed as drug cheats further down the track. The only way to clear this up once and for all is for the two boxers in question to agree to new tests. The fact that they refuse to do so, is a massive red flag.
I am XX and my Testosterone is 3 times higher than my husband. (During training it increases so I'm guessing that's what it does in men). I always noticed I'm different but I'm just happy and feel I won the DNA lottery.
This is a breath of fresh air because reddit is a fucking warzone about this, not one of them are accepting this whole "XY" chromosome thing and are denying it so hard
A lot of people on Reddit are very radical. There is a lot of hate in many of those sub-reddits. I got death threats for saying I don't wear deodorant, because I don't need it.
LMAO @ "not one of them are accepting this whole 'XY' chromosome thing"..... XX and XY are the number of X and Y chromosomes an individual has, which determine their biological sex: Females have two X chromosomes, or 46, XX. Mothers only pass on X chromosomes, so females inherit one X chromosome from their father. Each egg a female produces has a single X chromosome. Males have one X and one Y chromosome, or 46, XY. Fathers pass on either an X or Y chromosome, so males inherit a Y chromosome from their father. Males can produce two types of sperm, half with an X chromosome and half with a Y. When it comes to scientific and/or biological FACT, it really doesn't matter what some people choose to accept or not. This is really not that complex of an issue. The fact is that two biological MEN were allowed to compete in women's Olympic boxing, despite both being disqualified by the IBA previously because they were biologically male. And frankly, just judging off appearance only, that's already blatantly obvious with both of them anyways. Only the most delusional Leftist ideologs fail to recognize the reality with this particular issue, and why biological males have no business whatsoever competing in female sports (especially combat sports for that matter).
Joe - Bring on Andrew Huberman to talk about this. He did a 3 hour discussion on human sexual development. As someone who is pounding the table in the name of fairness in athletics . . I learned a lot. Look up DSD and the runner Semenya.
1. No evidence of XY chromosomes or transgender-only “verbal claims” by IBA The IBA organization held a press conference but failed to produce the report. 2. Only one verbal claim (by IBA) without formal report, but all other normal tests were ignored: Lin & Khelif have undergone testing in world-class competitions for so many years, but only the IBA in 2023 ‘claimed’ there was an issue and refused to disclose the test items, while previous and subsequent normal test reports by other fair associations have been ignored 3. The whole thing is a political attack and fake news The IBA is backed by Russian forces, so they’re targeting a Taiwanese athlete disliked by China and Khelif after she defeated a Russian athlete. Most national boxing associations have already withdrawn from IBA, so they are now trying to get revenge on the IOC.
1. That is evidence. A governing body that said that the test results from 2 separate WADA accredited laboratories showed that they didn't have XX is evidence of them not being XX. Strong enough proof that you would never dispute it if it didn't happen to go against your agenda in fact. And they didn't fail to produce the "report" (I assume you mean test results), they were not allowed by the athletes to produce it. 2. A DNA test? Please link that. If not, what the fuck are you talking about? Nobody is claiming that they were on coke or whatever someone else have tested for. 3. Lmao.
The important thing is that growths hormones are very different between man and woman and in any physical sports those hormones give you an advantage and you can't measure them cuz they hit your body after puberty and you can't measure them when someone is a full grown adult
@dnse1943 people with that disease don't all go through puberty the same way. This chick doesn't look monstrous to me, she doesn't look like a man, and she doesn't have a bunch of wins by knockout. I don't think it's really giving much of an advantage here 😂
Not true. Someone with her disease has neither functioning ovaries or testicles. The y chromosome is non functioning and she has most likely been on hormone therapy.
Part of the problem is that Imane Kalif keeps all this information private. So we have conflicting information. Be that as it may, here is what the science says. I'll quote it. Yes most of the time a simple test will do, but for some people we need to accomodate for special screening. In most cases, individuals with an XY chromosome pair develop as males, but there are certain conditions where someone with XY chromosomes can develop female characteristics. This happens due to variations in how genes are expressed or due to specific genetic conditions. Here are a few examples: 1. **Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS):** - In AIS, an individual has XY chromosomes but is resistant to androgens (male hormones). Because their bodies can't respond to these hormones, they may develop female physical traits. Depending on the severity, someone with AIS can have a completely female appearance (Complete AIS) or mixed characteristics (Partial AIS). 2. **Swyer Syndrome (XY Gonadal Dysgenesis):** - Individuals with Swyer Syndrome have XY chromosomes but their gonads (testes or ovaries) do not develop properly. As a result, they develop a typically female appearance, including female external genitalia, but do not produce functional sex hormones. People with Swyer Syndrome often need hormone replacement therapy during puberty. 3. **5-Alpha-Reductase Deficiency:** - This condition involves a deficiency in the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase, which is crucial for the development of male characteristics in XY individuals. Those with this deficiency may be born with ambiguous genitalia or may appear female at birth. However, some develop male characteristics during puberty. ### 4. **Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH):** - Although CAH typically affects XX individuals, there are rare forms where XY individuals may present with ambiguous genitalia or develop female characteristics due to the excess production of certain hormones. Conclusion: While the XY chromosome pair usually results in male development, genetic variations and certain medical conditions can cause individuals with XY chromosomes to develop as females or with female characteristics. These conditions are rare and often require medical management.
Women with Swyer syndrome or CAIS do tend to have more masculine appearance (a little taller, broader shoulders, etc), but that doesn't mean they went through male puberty. In fact, women with Swyer don't go through male puberty because despite having XY chromosomes, they don't produce testosterone. This is very much a grey area, and unfortunately the public will never know the details because of medical privacy rules.
So base on current testosterone level, the athelete must took illlegal testosterone, because theirs equal to male athelete, not just male human, male athelete.
@@TheIRONMANproject As far as I know, there's no evidence she has more testosterone (if any). The only thing reported is that she tested having XY chromosomes. Not the same thing.
"the public will never know the details because of medical privacy rules" The athletes can choose to release their medical records. If the public doesn't know the details it's because it's the athlete's decision not to release them, not privacy rules.
why do ppl like you display their ignorance so loudly and proudly? is it anonymity? or you thinking you are part of the majority? or low IQ? no self preservation instinct? or just used to backpadde hard at this point because you are wrong so often?
Same old story, some opportunists exploit the sympathy and benefits that the public gives to individuals with exceptional circumstances. Can you imagine spending years in agonizing training, suffering life-long injuries and dedicating an irreversible amount of your life just to lose because some guy wasn't sure if he wanted to be a man or woman on that particular day? This is the biggest tragedy against women since the witch-hunt.
But this isn't just a case of some guy not being able to decide on how they feel on any particular day, this is someone who was born and raised a female, lived through many years of adulthood as female, trained and sacrificed decades to compete, only for an organization, who at best are corrupt, to make an accusation without providing any sort of proof or evidence that they are actually male.
@@aleccoinneachdreyer4216 1. This discussion has nothing to do with how she was born and raised, this is strictly only about whether or not her physical condition gives her a competitive advantage that is unfair to other female atheletes. 2. Her physical appearance leans much more heavily towards a male than female, which warrants doubt that deserves investigation. 3. IBA's report can easily be debunked by additional tests if she is indeed as biologically female as she suggests. Her refusal at doing so is only evidence to the validity of IBA's report.
nope, it just shows your level of medical training and understanding which is...tada, absolute 0. but go ahead, tell us your opinion, but louder. you are just a parrot.
Yeah it sucks that if you even try to slightly go against what he says his fans are enraged that there’s even being a discussion, they’re just turning into what the left is.
joe argued that the moon landing was fake in his first ever podcast appearance on Pen Jilletets podcast almost 20 years ago. He's been gullible since the start lol
it’s sry gene that make sexual differentiation usually located on y chromosome but sometimes it can be absent from a xy karyotype and present in xx karyotype (2%)
In situations like these, an independent IOC approved medical examination, would either approve or disprove of the athlete's category. Such a fundamental & personal matter should not even reach the public for discussion, however, it's indicative that we have yet to place respectable boundaries on biological & medical birth rights and gender - hopefully in the near future.
It breaks my heart to think about the Algerian boxer's situation. She was born this way and has lived her entire life as a woman, raised in a poor family within a conservative society where access to surgeries isn't even an option. Why all the hate? She hasn't done anything wrong and hasn't even spoken to the media. Why judge her for circumstances beyond her control?. It’s so sad that she’s being blamed for something completely beyond her control.
So female boxers are to be penalized for it? Look, if the IBA falsely accused Khelif of having XY-chromosomes, he could have sued for defamation and become rich beyond his dreams. Khelif decided not to take action because then the type of test he did and the results would have been made public. WTF is wrong with people today? 'Logic' and 'reason' are actual 'things', right? Maybe I'm a freak but without logic and reason, how would I make sense of the world?
@@undercoveragent9889 she was focused on winning the gold medal, and now that she did, she announced that she's already filed a lawsuit against everyone involved, especially Elon Musk
I think it’s possible to have compassion for her, as an intersex person who identifies as female. It’s also reasonable to say that she doesn’t belong in a ring with a woman.
Joe was talking about a specific type of situation. He should be addressing the individual in the situation who may not exactly qualify for what he’s describing.
I guess he meant if the person was considered a man, he might no be that good because he lost some times to women. ((I'm not choosing side, I'm explaining what he meant))
@@tagaway6173 For sure, it’s like taking steroids and body building, some people juiced to the gills and can’t tell they on anything.. don’t get the results, don’t rise to the competition Thing is, this just opens back up the conversation of whether biological men should be competing at all. The dude from New Zealand in Tokyo didn’t lift a single good lift but still took someone’s spot. Lia Thomas hasn’t been stripped of her NCAA women’s swimming championship. I think most people agree NZ/Lia competing was wrong, but now theres a lean back into the idea of those types of incidents being acceptable, again. Give an inch, can guarantee the activists will take a mile, that’s their job, push the boundaries and ask for forgiveness later. Keen on being Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing.
He meant he might not be that good as a male elite boxer, which btw is obvious cause no decent male boxer would lose to 9 women. A good male boxer would already at 14-15 y.o. beat all female boxers in his weight class rather easily.
Imagine Mike Tyson competing in female boxing. At 12 y.o. he would have already destroyed any elite female boxer in the world. Female world-class athletes perform at an extremely low level compared to male athletes. Women were created to have babies and raise them, not to be warriors or Olympic boxers.
I don’t know where did you get this info from but it has nothing to do with the truth. She was born female and lived her life as a female and always competed among females.
Do a quick swab and find out. Honestly if it was proven they had an xy chromosome, it wouldn’t change their mind. They would still defend biological men in women’s sports, instead of defending women and women’s sports. Let’s say Khelif has a legitimate argument for competing in both men/women’s sports… why pick to fight women where you have a clear advantage?
in the last article Joe referrenced it showed Testestrone was only tested because it's the actual measure of wether you're a man or woman and not XY chromosomes because some women have XXY chromosomes but they're still women
Yes, they want trans playing in women's sports so they certainly want this. Women's sports is a strange category anyway as the best (men) are already banned. This just kind of shows that it's all a manufactured joke. That's why no one including women give a crap about women playing these sports. I'm done caring about this nonsense because it's always been nonsense.
@@truelies5431 a quick swab could tell us what exact chromosome they have. The IOC only determines this on testosterone levels. But scientists across the world determined sex based on chromosomes.
@@hopefulballistics that's before birth and after actual birth not after puberty... for example Imane had been assigned female on birth but no one is sure of her DSD because IBA refuses to show results
@@truelies5431IBA isn't refusing to show test results, it's protected information, and the only one who can choose to show it is Imane. And he doesn't. I wonder why
Imane Khalif was born and registered at birth as a female in a country very far away from wokeness. She grew up and was raised as a girl. Her hometown testified about it, her childhood pictures were shown. Her tears in post fight interview felt genuine from the bullying and the injustice.
The incidence is XY in what are birthed as “females” is 6.5/100,000 and they don’t have a uterus and they have testes that don’t decent, they don’t go through female puberty and due to the testes have high testosterone levels. Reality is that she’s a biological male. You cannot use 0.000065% XY as an XX for Olympic level sports.
Each of the boxers took two DNA tests: the first while participating in championships in Turkey in 2022, and the second in India in 2023. (The results of the 2022 tests were delayed and didn’t come out until after the championship was over. They came back ‘male’ but it was too late to halt that year’s event. As soon as the athletes returned to compete the next year, a new set of tests was immediately ordered - and this time the results came back in time to expel the men from the ring.) The tests were handled by their respective countries’ independent national laboratories, all fully certified and accredited by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport - ironically, the very same body that arbitrates drug testing for the Olympics. Tellingly, the boxers both declined to appeal the results, and both dispatched letters from their lawyers refusing permission to release the details to the public, citing medical privacy. Nevertheless, the full lab reports have leaked, and they’ve been seen, vouched for, and described in detail by highly respected journalists, including here by Alan Abrahamson, formerly of the LA Times and NBC Sports. The test results are ironclad and conclusive: the boxers are male. - from Arty Morty substance
Yep. Zero reason not to do a cheek swab if they doubted the IBA tests. The female athletes wanted the sex test, for obvious reasons. Why would anyone oppose it.
Yup, if the IBA falsely accused Khelif of having XY-chromosomes, he could have sued for defamation and become rich beyond his dreams. Khelif decided not to take action because then the type of test he did and the results would have been made public. WTF is wrong with people today? 'Logic' and 'reason' are actual 'things', right? Maybe I'm a freak but without logic and reason, how would I make sense of the world?
1. No evidence of XY chromosomes or transgender-only “verbal claims” by IBA The IBA organization held a press conference but failed to produce the report. 2. Only one verbal claim (by IBA) without formal report, but all other normal tests were ignored: Lin & Khelif have undergone testing in world-class competitions for so many years, but only the IBA in 2023 ‘claimed’ there was an issue and refused to disclose the test items, while previous and subsequent normal test reports by other fair associations have been ignored 3. The whole thing is a political attack and fake news The IBA is backed by Russian forces, so they’re targeting a Taiwanese athlete disliked by China and Khelif after she defeated a Russian athlete. Most national boxing associations have already withdrawn from IBA, so they are now trying to get revenge on the IOC.
@@lemthealchemist641 Each of the boxers took two DNA tests: the first while participating in championships in Turkey in 2022, and the second in India in 2023. (The results of the 2022 tests were delayed and didn’t come out until after the championship was over. They came back ‘male’ but it was too late to halt that year’s event. As soon as the athletes returned to compete the next year, a new set of tests was immediately ordered - and this time the results came back in time to expel the men from the ring.) The tests were handled by their respective countries’ independent national laboratories, all fully certified and accredited by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport - ironically, the very same body that arbitrates drug testing for the Olympics. Tellingly, the boxers both declined to appeal the results, and both dispatched letters from their lawyers refusing permission to release the details to the public, citing medical privacy. Nevertheless, the full lab reports have leaked, and they’ve been seen, vouched for, and described in detail by highly respected journalists, including here by Alan Abrahamson, formerly of the LA Times and NBC Sports. The test results are ironclad and conclusive: the boxers are male. - from Arty Morty substance
1950: we will cure cancer by 2024
2024: what is gender?
Thank leftists and the “tribe” for all of the nonsense in the west.
Exactly this lol
@TommyGunz327 meanwhile China and Russia are laughing their asses off at the west
@@TommyGunz327because the right is all perfect acting like y'all ain't just racists and Pedos and religious cult
Weve got cures for cancer once its not too far gone
This is the worst gender reveal in history.
Ok that’s funny
He won a gold medal.
@@mrkvomiltato871 by defeating another guy.
It's not his fault because he was misgendered, but I believe by puberty the family knew.
3:31 the question is...how big of a pickle 😅
crocodile Dundee solved this 30 years ago in a bar
Man! Need to watch that again now..
@@AOKONE Crocodile Dundee (1986) Party Scene ruclips.net/video/KMKOsytp0F0/видео.html
hahahahhahahaha
Did he though. If you Crocodile Dundee test that person then she is a woman
😂😂
They’re pissed that chromosomes are being brought up. Next they’re going to ban chromosomes and genetics as hate speech.
Imagine you are born with a vagina and people call you a dude because you are strong
"The Washington Post noted that no medical evidence that Khelif has XY chromosomes or elevated levels of testosterone had ever been published."
Yeah, so pissed.
That has already happened. They are desperately trying to hide that Y chromosome.😂
As dumb as that sounds I can totally see that happening
Yep, "chromosome violence" 😂
Personally I like to make my mind up after the very first headline and then tell everyone else they’re wrong
Never looked at it like that but yeah I'm in 😂
Pick that first headline carefully.
😅
= Joe
Rogan basically
@@manuelpulla532 You still haven't answered whether it was a male or female & where you get your news/sources from. How are you any different from Joe lol
The headphone foam on Joe's head isn't centered properly and it's pissing me off.
Now I can’t unsee it lol
You have OCD my friend. Welcome to the club. It's best to learn to let shit go that doesn't affect us and is beyond our control.
It never been centred 😂 good luck ever unseeing it
It’s like that every episode unfortunately
It’s off centre more often than not. It’s been grinding my gears for years
"It's a bit of a pickle" did not get the love it deserved
You know they pickle everything now adays. But no one ever seems to pickle cucumbers.
literally flew so far under the radar. Joe was way too focused on being right to appreciate grade A humor
It's a serious conversation and he's not 12 @@Tristanl1231
Are we talking cornichon, or dill pickle?
Rogan hasn’t even read his own source 🤦♂️
I was thinking the same thing 😂
* Cheek swabs for ALL competitors ...
* Only XX can participate in women's sport events
* Its just that simple
Agreed, this is the only way to make sure there are no Y chromosome related advantages in the game.
I'm with ya
she is a woman though. has more t than other females, but she is a female. might as well rule out all black athletes if she cant compete seeing as they have better genetics. she was born a woman. is literally a woman. its like disqualifying a kenyan because they were born genetically superior to others.
@@Kicking2bAlive Too many people are just too stupid to understand that. You have to start using analogies.
One I just came up with is pretending human beings didn't have a sex and we just spontaneously appeared.. and the only differences between us were that some were born with one eye, and others born with two eyes.. the rate of each was about 50/50.
So let's pretend we had a boxing league for people with only one eye... To ensure that, we only allowed the people born with one eye. Maybe some boxer comes along who was born with both eyes, but lost sight in one of them. Well how are we supposed to absolutely know that person has 0 sight in that second eye whatsoever? For that reason, we simply make it so only the people born with the one eye can compete..
Maybe someone was born with both eyes but literally lost one of them in an accident, and that person wants to compete in the one-eye category. Maybe technically speaking there would be a way for us to possibly consider that based on any number of metrics such as 'how much' of the eye was lost etc. Or how much we can prove there is no sight in it. That all seems like a big waste of energy when all we have to do is just say "you have to be born with one eye."
After having typed all that I now realize that too was a waste of time 😂
@@Magneticitistno waste of time, I think I'm right there with you.
Quik questions tho: I still have BOTH eyes but I FEEL like I should have been born with only one... sooo where does that put me?
The 2 eyed bracket? Ok, understood
“It’s a bit of a pickle 🥒 “ then chuckles lmaoooo
Joe didn't catch that!😂 Ari was too smooth with it.
A pickle with pickled eggs
@@vb46Joe is often lost when real comics are around.
There’s a compilation video for every time jokes went over Joe Rohan’s head
Literally only a 'bit' though, and hidden pickled eggs
It’s becoming a literal CURSE to be a true female athlete.
So sad for the future of women’s sports. Quite literally undoing everything they fought for
@@michaelbrown8955It's almost like they don't make sound decisions and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions that affect others.
as a slightly unfit man reaching his 40's I think its fantastic, I should apply to fight some women and get a easy gold medal in 2028 lmao
@@michaelbrown8955 They're undoing everything they fought for by fighting to undo everything they fought for. Feminism did this, and until real women stand up for themselves and refuse to compete with the trans athletes, it's only going to get worse. They are being cowards and are just bending over and taking it.
When EVERYONE SHOULD absolutely NOT ALLOW anything except TRUE FEMALE athletes to compete against other female athletes!!!
I am a 61 year old woman. I was in the army long ago when that was very unusual. I was a medical supply specialist. That was fine and opened new opportunities for women. I went to college.
I remember our girls unit running the obstacle course. We were fit, we did great! Whooo who! Then we watched the male unit run it after us (whose start was delayed because we took longer than the alloted time). Drill sgt told them to make up for us and get back on schedule. They halved our time.
I honestly believe women have done this to themselves by insisting that "anything you can do, I can do better". Men can't retain any organization to themselves. Not combat duty, not scouting. Now women expect men to defend women's sports. Biology suddenly matters.
Well said
Thank you for being normal
Well said.
As a woman I’m 💯 in agreement
@@googoogagaboogieboogiewoogie says the one yapping for the sake of yapping. Stfu
Never thought I’d see the day where we would have to debate what a woman is!!!!😭😭😭
if it doesn't get better, it's just going to get worse sadly
You have a high school level understanding of biology.
An elementary level of biology taught me the differences between male and female. Theres only 2 genders, Male Is a Male and a Female Is a Female. Debate ends there
this is not about that there was a similar case in track and field a long time ago and she was allowed to compete. genetic problems are very different from deciding to switch team one day like lia Thomas. altho i don't think they should be allowed to compete people are making it look like it's a tr*ns issue which is not at all.
@@alejandroblue4675 You’re clearly not very bright but you “feel” you are. It is pretty simple biology.
Males have x-y chromosome
Girls have x-x chromosome
Let’s not make it more complicated then needed …
But she has a vagina so are they a man or a woman?
I see going to college is not your thing is it?
😂@@sidewinder9258
There’s a very rare XX male syndrome
Jokes upon you
I thought Joe was interviewing Daniil Medvedev
same ahahaha sounds and looks exactly like Medvedev
It is in fact Medvedev.. he changed his identity to circumvent sanctions against Russians.
Me too!!
I talked with a physician on FB concerning DSD and Swyer-which he is not. This is what he said leaving me out. Facts from a doctor:
In 2016 Olympics all 3 medalists in the women’s 800 m were XY with the DSD 5-ARD deficiency. This condition prevents the development of male external genitalia but sufferers have testes not ovaries . When they reach puberty the testes produce normal male levels of testosterone and the typical changes of voice muscle hair.
This gives them huge athletic advantage over Females XX.
These 3 were banned by the highest sport court.
Shamefully the IOC have not nullified their medals despite admitting they are biologically male.
IK the Algerian boxer has all the features of this condition including confirmed XY and high testosterone.
The boxer could easily provide a simple cheek swab if they are XX but they have already decided to not challenge the IBA ban.
Yes as a baby DSD look like girls but they go through normal male puberty and in sport that is a huge class advantage.
The Algerian team will know this and are exploiting a ridiculous IOC loophole.
DSDs are not super rare and there are plenty of good academic papers explaining them.
The ignorance displayed on many posts here is breathtaking.
Males XY should not be fighting XX. No if or buts.
My fellow physicians in elite sports medicine all agree that any person who goes through male puberty has immutable advantage. We are silenced by political organizations including IOC.
5-ARD deficiency have variable phenotypes but all but a minority are brought up as girls despite XY bc the deficit is specifically for external genitalia development. Studies show that in every other respect ie muscle mass O2 max lung capacity and more, they are male.
(Brain?)-There is some evidence that even before puberty or in utero a Y chromosome does influence our neurological systems.
ah yes, the do your own research crowd using FB as their source. what's new
Awesome comment !!
That's correct but since then the IOC changed their guidelines. Their guidelines actually now allow intersex to compete in whichever division they identify as. it's an absolute shyt show because it seems recent movements and gender theory have gotten into law and human rights... so now in the European courts Gender identity human rights seems to be trumping females rights to compete fairly in sports competitions.
I think some “female” basketball players may have this too. In all fairness mistakes on the birth certificates should be corrected when chromosome testing is available. I do not see any reason why they could not have a special division of sports.
This is the gold standard comment on the subject.
You can feel empathetic towards someone without giving them all kinds of things that they don't deserve.
Who determines what they deserve?
@@adijjajohnson922 Me.
@@adijjajohnson922 Objectively derived definitions
The Algerian boxing team released a statement saying that claiming this is a man is a "Zionist conspiracy." I don't think they're honest actors, and I'm not convinced that the boxer actually thinks he's a woman.
Imagine you found out you were the opposite gender right now and how devastating that would be. It wouldn’t be your fault. Imane is going off what doctors told her and how she was raised. She’s innocent in this whole thing and ppl demonizing her are dick heads
regardless of gender, this shows how willfully ignorant some people are. it's actually pathetic how many adults would rather double down on their ignorance instead of admitting fault or even considering the possibility they were wrong.
The Algerian is a dude
And also shows how the media is willing to allow the ignorance to continue rather than explaining the situation in the first place. I don't think i read a single news outlet make it clear that she wasn't born a man with a dick and balls which a lot of people assumed was the case.
Yup.
Baffling isn't it?
Fair Enough. I saw a man beat up a woman *but I could be wrong.* 😆
Austin powers solved this mystery back in 1997 .
That's funny 😄 I ve worked in North Africa for 6 years, Hermaphrodite are raised in secret as women, however they don't usually hookup with men but hookup with women at female hammams. In there defense they don't try to trick men and keep their banana to a desperate housewife 😅
Just so yall know all the Autsin powers movies are on youtube for free, THATS A MAN BABBBBBBY YAEAAAAAAAAAAAAA ARE YOU FEELING RANDY BABY!
@@kevinleewilliams5119 yeah baby . Mike Myers’s did such a great job with that character.
"Well she is rather mannish."
Yeah Baby Yeah!
2 men fought in the women's final, simple.
And won.
Your brain is simple
And they are both boxing for gold, shocker
Do you or anyone else have any solid proof that is viable as per science ? Bring forth, otherwise yall are just lying and hating
@MakHash420 Well, the IBA seemed to have reason to determine them inelligble, and the IOC is using non-scientifc terms like "She was raised a girl and it says girl on her passport" as evidence. This is all easy to solve, but we are being gaslit. If these two ladies were 100% biologically female, it would be easy for the IOC to prove. But maybe I am just a hater against Algeria and Taiwan that's it. You got me.
@@MakHash420 Science is based on emperical evidence, which is also known as proof. It's what makes aeroplanes fly and why we don't build rockets on prayers.
@@NeilMartin98 Not my question 😆 bring the proof
@@MakHash420 why are you asking for proof on the internet? Common sense can tell you that if the olympic committee doesn't have or shows proof that they are females, they are hiding something. It is simple to show scientific proof if someone is a male or female. But even with proof they and people like you will say it is not legitimate.
The response from the boxing association was perfect. We can't say the results because of privacy, but we only test for chromosomes, and they aren't female.
The gets was for chromosomes AND testosterone, you could fail for either, which is why they initially accused her of cheating afterwards instead of being a man.
Does the person have a Vagina or not?
Even though you have a vagina, that still doesn't make you a female. Yeah, sure.
I think a direct quote is 'they ain't female.'
But do they have female organs or not?
I think it’s more accurate to say that Khelif is intersex. At birth, the doctors described her as a girl, due to her external genitalia. However, she also has XY chromosomes.
So, she probably has a medical condition called SDS.
I feel sympathy for her, since it wasn’t her choice, and she’s been raised as a girl since birth. Therefore, if she wants to call herself a woman, I think that’s fine.
However, we can also acknowledge that her condition (SDS) gives her an unfair advantage over biological women. The solution seems pretty clear - to compete in the women’s division, the athlete must have XX chromosomes AND pass the testosterone test.
biological advantage? you think wembanyama or lebron james does not have biological advantages? phelps or bolt? the whole of olympics is about celebrating the genetic freaks of humanity. hopefully with some dignity towards the participants
go ahead and first rename it the XX or XY games. not women or men. then we can talk
which bathroom should she go to? womens or mens? we;ll decide based on that since you all get your panties in a bunch because of it
Yeah we should rename it. We shouldn't allow taller, bigger or athletes with longer limbs too @@hayekianman
@@hayekianmanImagine if we had to rethink and rename everything in society to account for every possible abnormality/deviation which affects less than 0.1% of the population.
Is that what you suggest we should do? 🙄
He made her sound like a grocery store. “I don’t think they have eggs!” 😂
"Her"
@@CoomerGremlinDGGfan “her what ?”
Him
Yeah, it’s a bit of a pickle 😅
Related to this and Im not sure if this has already been asked or answered, does the boxer have monthly periods?
what's the point of having weight classes if physical attributes don't matter?
Right because everyone in the same weightclass has the exact same shape and size /s
@@KaituoKid They have weight classes so there isn't an unfair advantage of power or size in general, so skill is more required that way. I think being a man is an unfair advantage when fighting a woman lol... wait not I think, I KNOW
@@KaituoKidgenitalia isn’t usually one of the physical attributes in discussion though is it?
It is just a matter of time until they get rid of weight classes in women's sports for being fatphobic.
@@Jeremy-ql1or Weight isn't just about how fat are you. But muscles too. What you just said is very dumb.
The women's rule should be simple.
If you don't have a box, you don't get to box.
Thats the problem. It has a box. Buyxy chromosomes.
The problem is that doesn’t apply in this case, a intersex person could posses a normal looking vagina but also have internal testicles that produce male levels of testosterone.
@@FreedomIncthen let her box, do they also test men to know if they have xx chromosomes? There are many soy men in combat
A box with testicles inside where the ovaries should be. Weird, and unfortunate. But she went through male puberty
Nah. If you don’t have xx chromosomes and have any abnormalities - you’re out. Normal women only. The dude belongs in special Olympics
If Imane is suing multiple parties for defamation, it likely means she believes that several individuals or organizations have made false and damaging statements about her. Defamation cases can be complex, as they involve proving that the statements in question were not only false but also made with a certain level of negligence or intent to harm.
In a defamation lawsuit, the plaintiff (Imane, in this case) would need to demonstrate that:
1. The statements made were false.
2. The statements were communicated to others (published).
3. The statements caused harm to her reputation.
4. In some cases, that the defendant acted with negligence or actual malice.
The outcome of such a case could vary widely depending on the evidence, the jurisdiction, and the specific nature of the statements.
Is there something specific you’d like to know about this situation or defamation cases?
Thanks for this amazing dialogue! repeat my prompt above.
Notice how there isn't a problem with women in men's sports.
Years ago I did Karate for 8 years .I regular had to spar with a high grade black belt woman ,who was recognised as the best in the world ( she died some years back )
There was a unwritten rule we did not go in hard.She was tough and quite strong ( she was graded by sensie Enoeda )
She would go in hard against us that is no doubt .
Duh. Because its not as relevant
@FediMayn true.We were expected to be able to take the punishment from a woman ,no matter how good she was.
And we did .
@@John-ob7dh No matter how much effort or shots you put into it, at this time? It's much better to go fight women as man, then to fight men as a woman lol. I mean, maybe if you put Cyborg or Nunes on some type of new shit that they can beat average men in the UFC. But not Jon Jones etc.:D
I keep saying that. Why is that trans males always want to go into women sports, but not the other way round.
"IOC president says there is no solid scientific system on how to identify men and women." = this is a real headline in 2024 🤦🏼
So what's the test? She was born a female with female genitals and never had a penis. I guess that's not good enough for you just because you want to turn this into a trans issue. Americans are insane.
Society going literally backwards.
She failed the test and could easily clear the situation up by doing another test but refuses to do one.
the IBA test? that corrupt organization that did not actually disclose what the tests were about, and only said "we dont find her fit"?
In 2023 she was approved to participate in the tournament got even to the finals THEN the IBA decided to disqualify her for high testosterone when she appealed they refused her 🤐🤔
Now in the press conference IBA wa asked to release her medical records they also refused🤔
She boxed before as a woman in her conutry in africa and in arab tournament and the Olympics
All had no problem with her but the IBA suddenly has 🤔🤨fishy
She already did another test before the IBA tournament started and she passed and was a female
She only became a male after she defeated the Russian boxer
Keep in mind that IBA is corrupted ever since they moved the headquarters to Russia and started serving Russian interests only. And they bribed the Italian boxer to make that whole drama with Imane
@@aquarius3524 can you provide the source for that btw i know shes a women but i want to tell people to fuck off lol that she did a test before iba?
@@aquarius3524 Not even remotely true. The Olympic board said they looked at "her" (his) passport and it said female so that's good enough for them. But hey, lets just listen to the left wing said Russia Russia Russia again. Wow.
And the worst thing is that it is not possible to even discuss it without censorship. All legacy media is saying only one thing and if you have doubts about it you can't even voice them.
Because she's a woman. No XY.
You’re able to freely discuss it without censorship what are you on about, the issue is when you start to blatantly spread misinformation to fuel narratives, the most reasonable response to this situation should’ve been “well we don’t have all the information yet let’s see what comes out” but instead people just hopped on it with their anti left bs, trying to pin this as “this is what the left wants, men beating up woman”, but no it just turns out it’s a woman who has higher testosterone than other woman which is completely common in both men and woman sports, those with higher testosterone tend to do better, it’s nothing new. It was such a non issue, and people just berated that women with hate to push a narrative
"Or live in the mountains of Dagestan and hope your flight connection is late." was a hilarious dig.
Wow! Joe talking about steroids, and when someone ask him about Jon Jones, he all of a sudden don’t understand anything
What are you talking about?
@@daviddown8680 Joe simps for Jon.
Everybody in ufc is on steroids shutup
@@VGDominationnot the Diaz brothers
@@VGDomination that’s the point, he talk about everyone being on steroids, he even talk shit about TJ Dilllashaw and other fighters like Vítor Belfort like in this video… buuut when someone mentions Jon Jones he act like don’t understand (No hate on Joe btw) juts pointing out lol
There was a track and field athlete banned from the sport a few years ago for the exact same issue, I don't understand why it was allowed to compete
Sadly times have changed.
IOC playing globohomo politics.
Some sickos wanted it to happen’
Just because she's genetically unfortunate, she should be banned?
Imagine a world with no genders, its a political dream! To legislate for humans in a manner that makes them equal, despite reality!
The World Boxing Organization (WBO) also refuses to license Imane Khelif as a woman. The Vice President for the WBO said Khelif is a biological man. So it's not just the International Boxing Association saying this.
So are we gonna just ignore two boxing organizations because the IOC says a passport is enough verification??? This doesnt make sense.
I think you don't know yet where she is from. I was born in Algeria. Secondly, Algeria does not have a headquarters for sexual transformations, so it cannot transform itself. It is not like America or Europe, which defends gay people, but in Algeria, homosexuality is not prohibited. By a government and also by a people. Do not forget that this is a Muslim people, and in Islam, homosexuality is forbidden, which in your country is permitted.
@@masterofmastery2834 what's your point
In Algerian, gender identity is forbidden @@ejd7881
@@masterofmastery2834 Buddy no one is saying she is trans or gay.
@@mikko3 Ignorant people on FB constantly claimed she is trans, even multiple Afrikaans influencers in South Africa (where I'm from.)
Both "women" got to the finals in their respective weight categories, what an unbelievable COINCIDENCE
We don’t even know what a woman is because we’re not biologists but do we know those 2 are definitely women because we’re not biologists.
@@chamuuemura5314 I'm not a shop owner but I know the price of milk what's the point your making?
@@leosdaddykalmargreat, did you need to check your mums chromosomes? What if she is xy? Because some xy do give birth, are you saying men can give birth 😮?
I believe you are missing the sarcasm in their comment. I think they are criticizing the left's hypocrisy @@leosdaddykalmar
@@seancollins9597 yeah guess I missed it mate, long day few beers in thanks for pointing out my mistake 🍻😉
They did it because they need to artificially force people to talk about this absolutely miniscule anomalous percentage of individuals. They're constantly trying to make it seem bigger than it is, and that 99% of us don't all think the same thing about it
Yea. It’s like you see it on RUclips you think it’s happening everywhere. But when you leave the house, there’s hardly any of it around.
@@milenakupiec1839I mean that describes like 90% of the things on the news and the internet that people argue about.
Spot on. The numbers on this don’t remotely qualify to being an issue even worthy of conversation. But in this country if you’ll whine long enough and loud enough about any kind of non inclusion, you’ll get the attention of people needing something to make into a political football.
I'm very happy to see more people with this take. People act like operation mockingbird just stopped lol
Kind of like how there’s a miniscule anomalous percentage of trans people
Damn, Ari Matti?! They are really working hard to get him that visa!
he skipped omaha island
At least he's kinda funny
there's still no chance but it's admirable to watch lol maybe someone will marry him. funny dude
Underrated comment 😂😂😂 like is he even a expert on this 😂😂😂
Unlocking those freakin ISLANDS lets gooo
Give them their own fucking division, this is getting way the fuck out of hand
Yup, they (transgenders) should have their own “special” Olympics.
You mean the Men's division?
@@unggading6990 I guess, but they have to pander to everyone’s bullshit so I guess it should include furries as well as trannys etc
Dude unintentionally summed this situation up "It's a bit of a pickle"
The Olympics has in their mandate that they will no longer measure testosterone for trans and DSD athletes. What a joke.
What’s a ‘there mandate?’. I have never heard of such a place. Unless of course you mean ‘their mandate’, as in the mandate they have.
@@aussieprepper92correcting someone's English is racist
@@aussieprepper92its youtube dude take a chill pill you know what they meant 😅😂
@@aussieprepper92how stupid are you?
Then women should be able to take testosterone if they want
So we don’t say hermaphrodite anymore?
Is that what this is? That’s gotta be hard to live with I don’t even want to imagine.
Medically no, that’s an old term but she isn’t one anyway. True hermaphroditism now called OT DSD ovo -testicular difference of sexual development is someone who has both gonadal tissues or a combo of a normal gonad and/or ovo testis
That’s racist
@@myricalcampbell6156oh brother that's a mouth full. Let's just stick with hermaphrodite please.
Conservatives before the Olympics; there are 2 genders
Conservatives since the Olympics; gender is a spectrum
Nobody is arguing that Amanda Nunez can beat some/ most average guys not active in any athletic activities.....but she's not beating a male fighter in her same category period
In my opinion if you have XY chromosome you should participate in the male category and if you have XX chromosome you should participate in the female category.
Now if you have XXY chromosome or some sweyer syndrome etc etc then you should not be allowed to participate in any. Either a new category should be created for them or just tell them to pack their bags and do something else.
Any fighter with XX or XY chromosome but also has certain conditions for example if a female with XX chromosome is producing male level testosterone(maybe due to some genetic condition or some mutations idk) should also not be allowed to participate OR some measures like HRT should be used to regulate that testosterone (though I don't know the legality of that).
I am open to arguments if I am wrong do tell.
So you want all boxers to go through genetic testing? Any losing opponent will just claim “I want her tested because she kind of looks masculine!” Or other boxers will purposely look feminine to hide their masculine features.
What if the boxer was born with a male or female private part? Do we need to get that checked too? What about the feminine looking men? Let’s check them too!
That's crazy. Allowing poeple some privilege and others not is insane. Why not ban everybody from sports since no one has same test measurements(testosterone etc)
These tests are possible at the Olympics level but how do you regulate this at grass roots level? Like do you think the child choosing a boxing/fighting career in high school knows their testosterone level and chromosome disorders? What happens when the child reaches Olympics after years of training and your "tests" tell them to pack bags and go home??
Also, hormone levels in young athletes are not at all stable due to puberty and what not.
@@ikennanwit’s not a privilege. It’s harsh reality. Buckle up.
I mostly agree except the XX chromosome with high T. They just won the genetic lottery but they're still female.
Not just in sports, but real life also is not a woman. Don’t be afraid to say it.
I will resort to quote Kamala Harris for this one: “how dare you!!”. 😂😂
You are pathetic
The fact that you can't find a straight up answer on Wikipedia says something.(I'm not saying Wikipedia is that credible, but is she male or female....Intersex..... what's up?)
Ahh Wikipedia, the site known for being completely infallible…
Give it another week.
@@tstret3104 No i agree. I'm just saying.
Yes because Wikipedia is the most trustworthy source...not like they edit everything when there's a controversy or people questioning the legitimacy of the topic
Sick people doing sick choices, and then we cannot say it out loud, because it will hurt their feelings. But it's not a choice to be sick, so therefore it is a political... support, to force other people to play their game.
They say its not legitimate because the IOC doesnt use those tests. They only use ID or passport which is based on how you feel and not reality.
I don't understand. IOC has rules about the level of testosterone for people with DSD in order to participate in female competitions, so how could they base everything on passport?
African countries don't deliver passport based on feelings
Each of the boxers took two DNA tests: the first while participating in championships in Turkey in 2022, and the second in India in 2023. (The results of the 2022 tests were delayed and didn’t come out until after the championship was over. They came back ‘male’ but it was too late to halt that year’s event. As soon as the athletes returned to compete the next year, a new set of tests was immediately ordered - and this time the results came back in time to expel the men from the ring.) The tests were handled by their respective countries’ independent national laboratories, all fully certified and accredited by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport - ironically, the very same body that arbitrates drug testing for the Olympics. Tellingly, the boxers both declined to appeal the results, and both dispatched letters from their lawyers refusing permission to release the details to the public, citing medical privacy. Nevertheless, the full lab reports have leaked, and they’ve been seen, vouched for, and described in detail by highly respected journalists, including here by Alan Abrahamson, formerly of the LA Times and NBC Sports.
The test results are ironclad and conclusive: the boxers are male. - from Arty Morty substance
But i believe they are saying the algerian girl has female reproductive organs i.e vagina. But XY chromosome.it seems more like a genetic defect than a man who transitioned to be a woman.
it’s a bit more complicated than that eg., she was born with female genitalia.
.
I see where you are coming from but here is the question:
Traditionally, people born with male genitalia and XY are seen as male, and people born with female genitalia and XX are seen as female. But happens if the chromosomes are switched? That is called intersex.
.
So, what do you in that situation? I think instead of attacking people let’s try to understand, be empathic, learn, and then find a solution that’s fair and makes sense bc people will cont to be born like this, and don’t we say god loves all his children?
.
So let’s love everyone, and figure out a solution instead of bringing
people down, hating and attacking people. We are all human at the end of the day.
@saajandoshi NO, he wasn't born with female genitalia. That's a fucking lie.
*HE* was born with a specific protein missing from his DNA while forming in the womb, which is responsible for creating the penis towards the later end of gestation.
HE was born with a malformed penis, NOT female genitalia.
There are numerous qualified scientists, biologists and other health professionals weighing in on the topic on a professional neutral way.
She’s been beaten by other women before.
@@saajandoshiExactly.Seems like people don’t understand or simply can’t comprehend the fact that it is actually difficult to define gender.
It’s not confusion…it’s Halloween 👻
ahahaha
You’re confused 😅
its purposeful confusion waiting to be made maskless
Facts
This controversy reminds me of the blue/gold dress meme that was popular on Facebook
Excellent comparison. Nobody will capitulate bc they are sure they’re correct.
Males “typically” have XY chromosomes, but there are conditions that lead some individuals to develop as females. For example, Androgen insensitivity syndrome and Swyer syndrome.
Intersex, where the individual does not tick all the boxes of male or female characteristics is more common than you think, and is one of the reasons sex and gender is not as black and white as some people believe.
I've seen plenty of females that look masculine but are girls & males that look feminine but are men. Its not that hard to NOT only look at extremes.
Yeah why don't girly men get their own protected sports? Why does society deny them the opportunity? And why don't we have pro basketball for men under 6'? Not fair that only tall freaks get to be millionaires. What about the rest of us? We should sue!
I think the opening ceremony guaranteed we wouldn't get an honest answer on this. And the Russian boxing organization may have paid for the tests, but the tests were conducted by unbiased 3rd parties in India and Turkey. The IOC had to change their own testing rules to make the results illegitimate.
The theory is that the IBA started investigating these boxers because it was biased toward a Russian boxer who got defeated, but in my mind that doesn't undermine the IBA's credibility unless that Russian was also competing in the Olympics.
Why would they care about the Olympic boxing events if they didn't really believe these athletes should not be eligible to box? 😄
@@goodlows_ghostif it was because Khalifa defeated the Russian boxer, they wouldn't have bothered DQing the Taiwanese boxer as well.
@@goodlows_ghost I could buy a theory that said that the IBA tested them, saw that they didn't have XX chromosomes. And then changed their eligibility requirements to compete in the female division to require XX. But the trans ideologists aren't proposing a reasonable conspiracy theory like that, they instead claim that they outright lie about the results of their DNA tests. As if the laboratories wouldn't then just go out and say that they never tested them or that the IBA are lying about the results.
@@goodlows_ghost The IBA is stirring this shit up because they're mad the IOC replaced them. And they're doing everything in their power to discredit the IOC.
Based on what i've seen in this comment section, I'd say the IBA's disinformation campaign is working spectacularly well.
Ace Ventura literally showed us how to prove all of this
We live in a very pathetic, sensitive and extremely entitled time.
It's absolutely disgusting
This is not a new problem in Olympic games, there are cases like these dating for more than 20 years. The only thing new is the emotional involvement of the public.
That last comment about the mountains of Dagestan was fantastic 😂😂😂
Just the fact this is an issue in sport is so so sad.
I mean it was never even an issue until genetic testing came about - people with the same condition as Khelif have been competing in women’s sports since women’s sports were a thing
Wasn't the first modern controversy being with that South African runner?
@@Goldenboi77 Name the top 3 that competed and were top champions from before 15 years ago.
This isnt a trans person though. I was pissedd at first too but its a legit female just with some birth condition
ANY trans im 100p on the side of not letting them compete
This chick seems like it was just a bad birth defect
@Goldenboi77 which was cheating, men competing against women . Now before they might not have the tests for this , but they have now, these two boxers are Male.
The Olympic committees position is your gender is what is printed on your passport SERIOUSLY!!!
There are IOC rules about people with DSD and there are rules about the testosterone level that would allow such a person to participate in women sports.
Interesting how Joe Rogan has a fairer and more nuanced conversation about this than Piers Morgan.
Not really surprising. The bar was set pretty low.
piers is a troll
Piers is a view count hore...
He won't stand for some of the things he believes in just so he can interview more people and get more views
Piers is establishment.
@@gumdeo True enough, but this story is more of an example of him being sensationalist than pro-establishment.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck…
The duck test is highly conclusive and irrefutable
And farts like a duck. Chances are it’s a male duck
It's a witch!
But its a Platypus
makes me wonder if YOU know what a duck is lol
I wouldn't blame the athlete if the Olympics had guidelines, even if I don't necessarily agree with them, if the athlete conforms to them. But this is more complicated. I think that this all should have been worked out well before the Olympics started so that this controversy wouldn't happen, but I bet the Olympics wanted to make a ruckus about all of this. Boxing *by far* is the most egregious sport to have a man compete in against women.
We shouldn't even be discussing this, just like we shouldn't be trying to accommodate any trans person if it could potentially endanger any non trans people. It's simply just a numbers game as things have always been. Discussing this is almost pretending as if intersex people are all over the place. Now we have intersex or trans people basically being used as an excuse to eliminate a womens category.
Imagine we were some corporate management of a company which makes gloves and we were having a meeting over how many fingers we were going to accommodate with our gloves. Does that make any sense? "Should we make them for 6 fingers? What about 7? What if someone only has 3 fingers? How do we accommodate the people with 8 fingers?"
It's like holy crap.. just make gloves for 5 fingers because that's how humans work... then let me know when you have billions of people banging on your door because your 5 fingered gloves exclude their 6 or 7 or 8 finger having hands.
I remember more than once champions who were under suspicion of using performance enhancing drugs swore they weren't using drugs and people defended them.
In almost every case, they were exposed as drug cheats further down the track.
The only way to clear this up once and for all is for the two boxers in question to agree to new tests. The fact that they refuse to do so, is a massive red flag.
Bingo.
"The rage of 18 men coming at you" is a terrifying way to explain the affects of Ped's in sports
she has a genetic advantage. not a genetic issue.
Most top athletes have a genetic advantage
that girl she was boxing sucked, she gave up after the first punch, that's not imane's fault
@marcusgarvey5876
Yeah, but this individual has high testosterone levels, and they've gone through male puberty.
They've got PEDS essentially.
That's is a male lmao. Good try though
@@p_hat
They have abnormal amounts of testosterone comparable to PEDS.
I am XX and my Testosterone is 3 times higher than my husband. (During training it increases so I'm guessing that's what it does in men).
I always noticed I'm different but I'm just happy and feel I won the DNA lottery.
This is a breath of fresh air because reddit is a fucking warzone about this, not one of them are accepting this whole "XY" chromosome thing and are denying it so hard
A lot of people on Reddit are very radical. There is a lot of hate in many of those sub-reddits. I got death threats for saying I don't wear deodorant, because I don't need it.
LMAO @ "not one of them are accepting this whole 'XY' chromosome thing".....
XX and XY are the number of X and Y chromosomes an individual has, which determine their biological sex:
Females have two X chromosomes, or 46, XX. Mothers only pass on X chromosomes, so females inherit one X chromosome from their father. Each egg a female produces has a single X chromosome.
Males have one X and one Y chromosome, or 46, XY. Fathers pass on either an X or Y chromosome, so males inherit a Y chromosome from their father. Males can produce two types of sperm, half with an X chromosome and half with a Y.
When it comes to scientific and/or biological FACT, it really doesn't matter what some people choose to accept or not. This is really not that complex of an issue. The fact is that two biological MEN were allowed to compete in women's Olympic boxing, despite both being disqualified by the IBA previously because they were biologically male. And frankly, just judging off appearance only, that's already blatantly obvious with both of them anyways. Only the most delusional Leftist ideologs fail to recognize the reality with this particular issue, and why biological males have no business whatsoever competing in female sports (especially combat sports for that matter).
Reddit is condescending cesspool.
Because this doesn’t mean she is a man, WTF. She can get pregnant!! She has a vagina, an uterus!
there's no evidence anywhere of XY.
Joe - Bring on Andrew Huberman to talk about this. He did a 3 hour discussion on human sexual development. As someone who is pounding the table in the name of fairness in athletics . . I learned a lot. Look up DSD and the runner Semenya.
KING KONG AINT GOT SH*T ON HIM!! 🤣🤣🤣💯💯💯
1. No evidence of XY chromosomes or transgender-only “verbal claims” by IBA
The IBA organization held a press conference but failed to produce the report.
2. Only one verbal claim (by IBA) without formal report, but all other normal tests were ignored:
Lin & Khelif have undergone testing in world-class competitions for so many years, but only the IBA in 2023 ‘claimed’ there was an issue and refused to disclose the test items, while previous and subsequent normal test reports by other fair associations have been ignored
3. The whole thing is a political attack and fake news
The IBA is backed by Russian forces, so they’re targeting a Taiwanese athlete disliked by China and Khelif after she defeated a Russian athlete. Most national boxing associations have already withdrawn from IBA, so they are now trying to get revenge on the IOC.
1. That is evidence. A governing body that said that the test results from 2 separate WADA accredited laboratories showed that they didn't have XX is evidence of them not being XX. Strong enough proof that you would never dispute it if it didn't happen to go against your agenda in fact.
And they didn't fail to produce the "report" (I assume you mean test results), they were not allowed by the athletes to produce it.
2. A DNA test? Please link that. If not, what the fuck are you talking about? Nobody is claiming that they were on coke or whatever someone else have tested for.
3. Lmao.
Vice president WBO also say she is a male
Rumour has it Khelif has her sights on the Paralympics next.
😂😂
Cruel
You people are evil
@@m.bird. cruel is a biological man beating the cr.p out of women and robbing them of their Olympic dreams
The important thing is that growths hormones are very different between man and woman and in any physical sports those hormones give you an advantage and you can't measure them cuz they hit your body after puberty and you can't measure them when someone is a full grown adult
*_The subject HAS testicles, but inside the body._*
Correct , Male
That is completely false. People with her syndrome hav neither functioning testes nor ovaries. She has definitely been getting TRT
And why he was misgendered at birth. However, by puberty the family, boxer likely knew.
@dnse1943 people with that disease don't all go through puberty the same way. This chick doesn't look monstrous to me, she doesn't look like a man, and she doesn't have a bunch of wins by knockout. I don't think it's really giving much of an advantage here 😂
Not true. Someone with her disease has neither functioning ovaries or testicles. The y chromosome is non functioning and she has most likely been on hormone therapy.
Part of the problem is that Imane Kalif keeps all this information private. So we have conflicting information. Be that as it may, here is what the science says. I'll quote it. Yes most of the time a simple test will do, but for some people we need to accomodate for special screening.
In most cases, individuals with an XY chromosome pair develop as males, but there are certain conditions where someone with XY chromosomes can develop female characteristics. This happens due to variations in how genes are expressed or due to specific genetic conditions. Here are a few examples:
1. **Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS):**
- In AIS, an individual has XY chromosomes but is resistant to androgens (male hormones). Because their bodies can't respond to these hormones, they may develop female physical traits. Depending on the severity, someone with AIS can have a completely female appearance (Complete AIS) or mixed characteristics (Partial AIS).
2. **Swyer Syndrome (XY Gonadal Dysgenesis):**
- Individuals with Swyer Syndrome have XY chromosomes but their gonads (testes or ovaries) do not develop properly. As a result, they develop a typically female appearance, including female external genitalia, but do not produce functional sex hormones. People with Swyer Syndrome often need hormone replacement therapy during puberty.
3. **5-Alpha-Reductase Deficiency:**
- This condition involves a deficiency in the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase, which is crucial for the development of male characteristics in XY individuals. Those with this deficiency may be born with ambiguous genitalia or may appear female at birth. However, some develop male characteristics during puberty.
### 4. **Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH):**
- Although CAH typically affects XX individuals, there are rare forms where XY individuals may present with ambiguous genitalia or develop female characteristics due to the excess production of certain hormones.
Conclusion:
While the XY chromosome pair usually results in male development, genetic variations and certain medical conditions can cause individuals with XY chromosomes to develop as females or with female characteristics. These conditions are rare and often require medical management.
Women with Swyer syndrome or CAIS do tend to have more masculine appearance (a little taller, broader shoulders, etc), but that doesn't mean they went through male puberty. In fact, women with Swyer don't go through male puberty because despite having XY chromosomes, they don't produce testosterone. This is very much a grey area, and unfortunately the public will never know the details because of medical privacy rules.
So base on current testosterone level, the athelete must took illlegal testosterone, because theirs equal to male athelete, not just male human, male athelete.
@@TheIRONMANproject As far as I know, there's no evidence she has more testosterone (if any). The only thing reported is that she tested having XY chromosomes. Not the same thing.
"the public will never know the details because of medical privacy rules"
The athletes can choose to release their medical records. If the public doesn't know the details it's because it's the athlete's decision not to release them, not privacy rules.
We need to stop making speculations until we know facts.
Could he/she compete in the Special Olympics?
He, he is simply a he.. Y chromosome, don’t care, you’re a he
Several male boxers in the women's category, what a world😂
All I am thinking is dude looks like Colin Kaepernick.
XY = Man it doesn't matter how you cut it
Yet those with ais condition can give birth despite having xy so your point isn’t valid
@@Spacewinterknightwrong. A person with AIS do not have uterus or ovaries. They are males that never developed male genitals.
why do ppl like you display their ignorance so loudly and proudly? is it anonymity? or you thinking you are part of the majority? or low IQ? no self preservation instinct? or just used to backpadde hard at this point because you are wrong so often?
waking up, opening RUclips and seeing Ari debating gender is wild
Same old story, some opportunists exploit the sympathy and benefits that the public gives to individuals with exceptional circumstances.
Can you imagine spending years in agonizing training, suffering life-long injuries and dedicating an irreversible amount of your life just to lose because some guy wasn't sure if he wanted to be a man or woman on that particular day?
This is the biggest tragedy against women since the witch-hunt.
But this isn't just a case of some guy not being able to decide on how they feel on any particular day, this is someone who was born and raised a female, lived through many years of adulthood as female, trained and sacrificed decades to compete, only for an organization, who at best are corrupt, to make an accusation without providing any sort of proof or evidence that they are actually male.
@@aleccoinneachdreyer4216
1. This discussion has nothing to do with how she was born and raised, this is strictly only about whether or not her physical condition gives her a competitive advantage that is unfair to other female atheletes.
2. Her physical appearance leans much more heavily towards a male than female, which warrants doubt that deserves investigation.
3. IBA's report can easily be debunked by additional tests if she is indeed as biologically female as she suggests. Her refusal at doing so is only evidence to the validity of IBA's report.
3:58 Joe Rogan asking Jamie "Do they have ovaries?" will NEVER stop being funny to me!! XD
The fact that this is even a 'back n forth'... shows a pre school levesl of intelligence in all who partake.
nope, it just shows your level of medical training and understanding which is...tada, absolute 0. but go ahead, tell us your opinion, but louder. you are just a parrot.
Joe you gotta be more open to counter information like the Joe of old.
@@diamondpoppa what kind of counter information could there be except for a chromosomal make-up test showing an XX chromosome?
Yeah it sucks that if you even try to slightly go against what he says his fans are enraged that there’s even being a discussion, they’re just turning into what the left is.
what "counter information" are you speaking of exactly? Joe's just saying it as it is
joe argued that the moon landing was fake in his first ever podcast appearance on Pen Jilletets podcast almost 20 years ago. He's been gullible since the start lol
he's gone off the deep end
Bad food, drinking alcohol, and poor sleep causes low T? I feel called out
it’s sry gene that make sexual differentiation usually located on y chromosome but sometimes it can be absent from a xy karyotype and present in xx karyotype (2%)
I like how he acts surprised when he wins against a chick. “What? I won?” Not 1 men’s sports record has been affected
Dude, it's a girl 😆
She's a woman
This Algerian person had lost before to females though
In situations like these, an independent IOC approved medical examination, would either approve or disprove of the athlete's category.
Such a fundamental & personal matter should not even reach the public for discussion, however, it's indicative that we have yet to place respectable boundaries on biological & medical birth rights and gender - hopefully in the near future.
It breaks my heart to think about the Algerian boxer's situation. She was born this way and has lived her entire life as a woman, raised in a poor family within a conservative society where access to surgeries isn't even an option.
Why all the hate? She hasn't done anything wrong and hasn't even spoken to the media. Why judge her for circumstances beyond her control?. It’s so sad that she’s being blamed for something completely beyond her control.
So female boxers are to be penalized for it?
Look, if the IBA falsely accused Khelif of having XY-chromosomes, he could have sued for defamation and become rich beyond his dreams. Khelif decided not to take action because then the type of test he did and the results would have been made public. WTF is wrong with people today? 'Logic' and 'reason' are actual 'things', right? Maybe I'm a freak but without logic and reason, how would I make sense of the world?
@@undercoveragent9889 she was focused on winning the gold medal, and now that she did, she announced that she's already filed a lawsuit against everyone involved, especially Elon Musk
He will lose. You know who demonstrates male aggression? Biological Males. AKA your Hero.
When she started shaving and period s didn't appear. Maybe parents should have thought again .
I think it’s possible to have compassion for her, as an intersex person who identifies as female. It’s also reasonable to say that she doesn’t belong in a ring with a woman.
Joe was talking about a specific type of situation. He should be addressing the individual in the situation who may not exactly qualify for what he’s describing.
2:40 “Might not be that good”
Wins Olympic gold.
I guess he meant if the person was considered a man, he might no be that good because he lost some times to women.
((I'm not choosing side, I'm explaining what he meant))
@@tagaway6173 For sure, it’s like taking steroids and body building, some people juiced to the gills and can’t tell they on anything.. don’t get the results, don’t rise to the competition
Thing is, this just opens back up the conversation of whether biological men should be competing at all. The dude from New Zealand in Tokyo didn’t lift a single good lift but still took someone’s spot. Lia Thomas hasn’t been stripped of her NCAA women’s swimming championship. I think most people agree NZ/Lia competing was wrong, but now theres a lean back into the idea of those types of incidents being acceptable, again.
Give an inch, can guarantee the activists will take a mile, that’s their job, push the boundaries and ask for forgiveness later.
Keen on being Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing.
Exactly. Mediocre male boxer wins the women’s title.
He meant he might not be that good as a male elite boxer, which btw is obvious cause no decent male boxer would lose to 9 women. A good male boxer would already at 14-15 y.o. beat all female boxers in his weight class rather easily.
Imagine Mike Tyson competing in female boxing. At 12 y.o. he would have already destroyed any elite female boxer in the world. Female world-class athletes perform at an extremely low level compared to male athletes. Women were created to have babies and raise them, not to be warriors or Olympic boxers.
I don’t know where did you get this info from but it has nothing to do with the truth. She was born female and lived her life as a female and always competed among females.
Do a quick swab and find out. Honestly if it was proven they had an xy chromosome, it wouldn’t change their mind. They would still defend biological men in women’s sports, instead of defending women and women’s sports. Let’s say Khelif has a legitimate argument for competing in both men/women’s sports… why pick to fight women where you have a clear advantage?
in the last article Joe referrenced it showed Testestrone was only tested because it's the actual measure of wether you're a man or woman and not XY chromosomes because some women have XXY chromosomes but they're still women
Yes, they want trans playing in women's sports so they certainly want this. Women's sports is a strange category anyway as the best (men) are already banned. This just kind of shows that it's all a manufactured joke. That's why no one including women give a crap about women playing these sports. I'm done caring about this nonsense because it's always been nonsense.
@@truelies5431 a quick swab could tell us what exact chromosome they have. The IOC only determines this on testosterone levels. But scientists across the world determined sex based on chromosomes.
@@hopefulballistics that's before birth and after actual birth not after puberty... for example Imane had been assigned female on birth but no one is sure of her DSD because IBA refuses to show results
@@truelies5431IBA isn't refusing to show test results, it's protected information, and the only one who can choose to show it is Imane. And he doesn't.
I wonder why
Imane Khelif it was pregnant last year she lost her baby of 3 months pregnant that's what the news said in Algeria
I identify as invisible I was at the Olympics too and won gold but nobody saw me for obvious reasons
Imane Khalif was born and registered at birth as a female in a country very far away from wokeness. She grew up and was raised as a girl. Her hometown testified about it, her childhood pictures were shown. Her tears in post fight interview felt genuine from the bullying and the injustice.
The incidence is XY in what are birthed as “females” is 6.5/100,000 and they don’t have a uterus and they have testes that don’t decent, they don’t go through female puberty and due to the testes have high testosterone levels. Reality is that she’s a biological male. You cannot use 0.000065% XY as an XX for Olympic level sports.
Who cares how Khalif was raised; if Khalif has male levels of testosterone, that is not a female.
Each of the boxers took two DNA tests: the first while participating in championships in Turkey in 2022, and the second in India in 2023. (The results of the 2022 tests were delayed and didn’t come out until after the championship was over. They came back ‘male’ but it was too late to halt that year’s event. As soon as the athletes returned to compete the next year, a new set of tests was immediately ordered - and this time the results came back in time to expel the men from the ring.) The tests were handled by their respective countries’ independent national laboratories, all fully certified and accredited by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport - ironically, the very same body that arbitrates drug testing for the Olympics. Tellingly, the boxers both declined to appeal the results, and both dispatched letters from their lawyers refusing permission to release the details to the public, citing medical privacy. Nevertheless, the full lab reports have leaked, and they’ve been seen, vouched for, and described in detail by highly respected journalists, including here by Alan Abrahamson, formerly of the LA Times and NBC Sports.
The test results are ironclad and conclusive: the boxers are male. - from Arty Morty substance
Joe. Am not gunna lie, brother. ur headset being offset on ur head is driving my OCD up the wall😂😂
I was fine till I saw your comment now I can't stop staring at his headset ,it's like nails on a chalkboard.
@@aaronmcconnell7358 🤣🤣🤣 Ur telling me 🫤🤣🤣
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. If you’re going to have conversations like this, please just spend a little time learning about it.
Trust the experts I say, Italian woman said she got punched in the head by a man, she has the experience to know the difference.
She's just a whiner.
Because Italian men usually hit their wives?
how would she know does she box men? serna williiams was called a man by another tennis player
Are you saying italian men are abusive?
@@hassyg4083now that you mention it…
I blame the Olympics all they had to do was test them, and prove the IBA wrong. I believe IBA
Yep. Zero reason not to do a cheek swab if they doubted the IBA tests. The female athletes wanted the sex test, for obvious reasons. Why would anyone oppose it.
Yup, if the IBA falsely accused Khelif of having XY-chromosomes, he could have sued for defamation and become rich beyond his dreams. Khelif decided not to take action because then the type of test he did and the results would have been made public. WTF is wrong with people today? 'Logic' and 'reason' are actual 'things', right? Maybe I'm a freak but without logic and reason, how would I make sense of the world?
1. No evidence of XY chromosomes or transgender-only “verbal claims” by IBA
The IBA organization held a press conference but failed to produce the report.
2. Only one verbal claim (by IBA) without formal report, but all other normal tests were ignored:
Lin & Khelif have undergone testing in world-class competitions for so many years, but only the IBA in 2023 ‘claimed’ there was an issue and refused to disclose the test items, while previous and subsequent normal test reports by other fair associations have been ignored
3. The whole thing is a political attack and fake news
The IBA is backed by Russian forces, so they’re targeting a Taiwanese athlete disliked by China and Khelif after she defeated a Russian athlete. Most national boxing associations have already withdrawn from IBA, so they are now trying to get revenge on the IOC.
@@lemthealchemist641
Each of the boxers took two DNA tests: the first while participating in championships in Turkey in 2022, and the second in India in 2023. (The results of the 2022 tests were delayed and didn’t come out until after the championship was over. They came back ‘male’ but it was too late to halt that year’s event. As soon as the athletes returned to compete the next year, a new set of tests was immediately ordered - and this time the results came back in time to expel the men from the ring.) The tests were handled by their respective countries’ independent national laboratories, all fully certified and accredited by the international Court of Arbitration for Sport - ironically, the very same body that arbitrates drug testing for the Olympics. Tellingly, the boxers both declined to appeal the results, and both dispatched letters from their lawyers refusing permission to release the details to the public, citing medical privacy. Nevertheless, the full lab reports have leaked, and they’ve been seen, vouched for, and described in detail by highly respected journalists, including here by Alan Abrahamson, formerly of the LA Times and NBC Sports.
The test results are ironclad and conclusive: the boxers are male. - from Arty Morty substance