yes movavi maybe the first sponsor of ur channel and u certainly could make editing videos fun and easy without filmora,but why is it after all these years u are a still updating filmora and holding on to filmora's zork? and u seem pretty upset about a software, which u used to collab with but now ur just somebody that they used to know? now stop talking like some 1990s disgruntled employee movie star, and hit us up so we can start a new partnership-fimora.
I always wondered what made people offer lifetime plans, knowing the cost would overrun the revenue some day. Seems they just never plan to keep their end of the deal.
It's not surprising as lifetime licenses don't make $$$$ they probably thought o great we offer lifetime licenses we don't make $$$$ so let's change the policy without notifying people 1st
I bought Fruity Loops (now FL Studio) back in the mid 1990's on a $99 Lifetime License. To this day I still get free updates / upgrades. There are companies that honor their license agreements with their end users. Filmora obviously isn't one of those anymore. You are completely right around calling them out.
@@jimmyjohnjuan well, getting sued is one thing, but public image is one thing. Giving long therm costumers the updates for free as promised costs virtually no money. Taking the license away causes media backlash. That washes over. The media backlash creates a wikipedia section in the article about company and software. That will remain. Try to remove it hard enough and you get a fresh media backlash followed by yet an other section. At that point, you might as well rename the company and product and hope that no media outlet writes "they renamed them self because of media backlash due to changes in the license".
Thank you for calling them out on this Daniel. Got a rude shock on opening filmora recently for a project. This is bad not only from an ethical point of view but also from a legal point of view. Thank you for being so honest and standing your ground with them on behalf of all of us. Their reply to you is shocking and disappointing to say the least. “The rules of the game cannot be changed once it begins”. Heartbreaking indeed.
@@Butterfly07949 Yeah. From a legal standpoint, this is breach of contract but i guess, as Daniel rightly pointed out that when you “upgraded” not “updated” to Filmora X or 11 you have agreed to the ‘hidden’ change in terms and conditions of the contract and agreed to perpetual license limited to that particular version (X or 11 as the case may be) and thereby agreed to pay for the “update” to a newer version i.e 12 in this case. So they may get away with that. Very unfortunate. Thats why they are referring to Filmora 9 in their mail. Very smart.
@@Daniel_Batal - Should contact an attorney and see if they would be open to consider a class action lawsuit on behalf of all of the "Lifetime License holders" ( seeing that the attorneys are the only ones that really make any money on these types of cases while the consumers usually just get some sort of refund for the money they spent) and sue for the right to what they paid for. Would think it would be cheaper for the company to just honor their word and let the original purchasers of Lifetime licenses continue to get free updates for life or at least for the newest version and then change the name of the Software and call it a new product going forward so it is no longer Filmora thus not covered under the initial license ( it's not like they would lose a ton of money by doing so since there are probably not that many people who bought those licenses when they were offered that still use the product. )
It is about time something like this is brought to court. A lifetime license is a contract. And if the main selling point is "lifetime", the contract should not be able to be changed on that point.
Brought to court for what? "Lifetime" in a consumer product legally means the lifetime of the product, not the consumer. Never has, never will. Just learn the language and terminology and you will have less frustrations - and wasting money on a legal battle you will lose since it is already clearly defined what it means.
@@Luggruff "legally means the lifetime of the product" Yes, and they are still making the product, which means the "lifetime" licensing should still apply.
@@Luggruff You'd be right if that isn't how the licenses have been functioning this whole time... It's the fact that the license for Filmora 6, 7, 8, 9 have functioned the same way this whole time. Now all of a sudden they don't? If Lifetime previously functionally meant "free updates to every subsequent version", you don't get to redefine or modify how the agreement applies between two parties after the fact. It doesn't work like that. That's how you get sued.
@@Luggruff The fact that theres precedence with Filmora's Lifetime License being compatible with every new version means that changing that is a modification of the agreement.
@@FrashGordon "Product's lifetime" usually refers to the specific software version. Sadly these words are confusing for most users, and doesn't help that these usually are not made clear, but generally speaking, you should always read the licenses terms when buying to really know what each term means and how it affects your license. I do feel like Filmora is in the wrong here if they weren't explicit about these things in their plans page, even if the license terms stated it, it should be obvious what that "Lifetime" plan covers to the plain eye.
The money "lost" from grandfathering in lifetime users would've been dramatically less than the money lost from negative publicity due to this greedy move. Genius. Also: your hair is awesome, dude
@@ObscurousDecorous I’m afraid in this case there is. They could get slapped with a class action lawsuit if enough people hear of this or experience it start to get angry. It was a seriously stupid move on their part. To think I almost bought into a subscription today. And, very thankfully, I saw this. New Sub to this channel as well. Bad publicity in this case has stopped me from giving them my hard earned $$$. Super disappointed and disgusted.
This is _absolutely_ a breach of contract. They don't have the authority to make unilateral changes to your contract with them, unless the contract said so at the time.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Not to mention that some of this would be, at best, ambiguous, and would be construed in favor of the non-drafting party (which would be Daniel).
Yea well that entails litigation and litigation is expensive and their lawyers know that and bank on customers being too poor to protect their interests....
yes. their terms were not ambiguous. they clearly stated lifetime free updates. they went back on that and you'd win any claim against them in court. I hope they do the right thing and apply this refund of license credit to future "plans" + incentive
@@JWUnderwood007 This could easily be a small claims case (in which attorney representation is not allowed), or a class action with a lawyer who takes the case on contingency. Just need to find an attorney that works in this area.
100% agreed. This was flawless execution of a public breakup. It's everything I've feared about paying for an up-front "lifetime" subscription. Thank you for the information.
I'm surprised they didn't include a key for you to use in the email. Not only do they expect you to keep using and talk good about it, but purchase it yourself as well. Completely free for them to do, but they wanted your money too.
This is my very first exposure to Filmora. I had no idea what it was prior to this video, so now this video is my very first impression of them. Well done, Filmora. I hope the couple hundred dollars you made was worth the thousands in lost interest.
Same. I'd never heard of them. Now I have, and probably not in the way they'd want. If I'm looking for video editing software in the future, I absolutely will not consider Filmora. It won't be an option.
I remember filmora I always thought it was a virus like all other wondershare products because when you download one thing theyre like oh you want a video editor take all this crap too its got the wondershare logo on it so you cant deny the installer from downloading it tee hee!
I've had several lifetime subscriptions/licenses on software products over the years. Generally speaking, most companies have been very good about honoring these agreements even decades later. Most of them realize that the damage caused by reneging on loyal users far outweighs any costs associated with keeping their promises.
I have too. But just like this video, I've also had a number of "lifetime" licenses pulled out from under me. The excuse has always been that the product changed too much to be considered the same product related to my license.
Snag It is the worst with this. They release updates for a few months then they release a “new” version so they can say you don’t women it anymore and want you to pay again.
@@dennis2966 same. Some good, some bad. It's kinda crazy how companies do this, when their early bird supporters, who got them off the ground, are usually a much smaller part of the total userbase. There's not a huge monetary loss in just not being awful to your og supporters. 😩
A sucker is born every second. Do not buy lifetime licenses on software period at least in the US. Lifetime is when they decide not when you decide. I bought one years ago and when it got to popular and expensive for them to honor the license they stopped.
Considering this is now one of the biggest viral Filmora videos, their greed definitely hurt them. I stopped using Filmora, and now only use Resolve, because their updates didn't actually improve the software or give us much needed features, they just integrated more in app purchases for us to buy more easily. Filmora used to be one of the best entry level video editing platforms, now it's just buggier, and more expensive. There is absolutely no reason to keep using it.
Two words: CLASS ACTION. Clobber them in court and report them your state's AG for deceptive advertising and consumer fraud. Go for discovery and subpeona the terms from when you bought it.
@@DARANGULAFILMI believe bankruptcy does not exclude the debt from legal judgements in the case of fraud at the federal level so it might not help them.
@@DARANGULAFILM they would have to relaunch the product as a different program to get out from under it and they would then lose all their new plan customers and name recognition. It would be much cheaper for them to just give the lifetime holders the software.
This video is classy AF. Presenting facts, recognizing errors, call for correction, presents alternatives. Great vid. I don't even edit videos (yet) but when I start filmora will not be on my list of potential softwares. I won't support companies who aren't customer-centric
Sir, Im not a content creator, before today I have never heard of You, your channel, or the software you discuss in your video. But the algorithm suggested i watch, so I watched it. This video showed how much of an honest and straight forward guy you are. You stood up for what was right, called out the wrong, all while remaining professional. Showed true loyalty to your fans, which earned my respect, my sub, and a like.
HAHA, same here and subbed. It's pretty crazy what we allow software companies to get away with in general. If you look deep into any terms and conditions anymore. They all basically say somewhere, "We can take this away at any time." for some reason or another.
One of the worst things a company can do is destroy its own community. Yet somehow, these companies continue to self-immolate. Thanks for sharing the issue.
When I was a kid I used to download cracked wondershare products because we didn't have copyright laws in my country... the thing that bothers me the most is that these companies punish their loyal customers to compensate for their so called lost money.
@@a.mo7a Yeah but lets be honest would you have bought the product even? Probably NOT, I've had so many cracked versions of things over the years like AutoCAD for example at one point. I had it to play with, let's say I was unable to download it would I have bought it NO so they didn't loose anything from me. It's a made up concept that somehow they lost money because you downloaded it as a hobbyist. Only time I agree 100% is when a company downloads something and is making money from using that product. Then YES there is damages because money is being made by using that copy of the software.
@@Meekerextreme Why is company different than an individual? It's the same thing If you had no alternative software, then you'd save up for paid one, or do something else entirely. It does impact developers.
@@tteqhu No I would have never saved up to play with AutoCAD for sh!ts and giggles...LOL Same for movies, I just forgot watching most that I have seen if I had to pay to watch them all...I watch them because I can download them. Sorry I don't feel bad about it nor will I ever.
@@Meekerextreme Yeah I believe you would not pay for anything. But don't justify it, let's just admit that it IS wrong, and just for your benefit. You aren't "testing" and you are taking other's work for free. Use free alternatives>support cracking paid versions
This is all I wanted to hear. I've been getting extremely frustrated with Wondershare and felt like nobody else cared. I'm happy to see everyone here shares my feelings.
Filmora support be like XD I understand how frustrating it can be to feel like you are not being heard or that your concerns are not being taken seriously. It's important to have your voices and concerns heard, and to have a positive and satisfactory experience with a company and their products. If you have any further concerns about Wondershare or Filmora, you may want to consider reaching out to their customer support team for assistance. It's also a good idea to read reviews and ask for recommendations from trusted sources before making a purchase, to ensure that you are making an informed decision.
Europe has very stringent and clear protection for purchases of products and licenses. I think this might cost Filmora a lot of money that they are not aware of or think they can ignore!
We can hope Filmora gets a clue and hacks off, but if nit there are federal agencies that can be alerted to this. If anyone is motivated a consult with an intellectual property attorney might be worth your time.
@@EverythingBattletech Imagine that they have money and assets all over the world in banks all over the world and EU the same as US can demand banks to freeze their assets in banks... They can be also banned from VISA/Master system and PayPal.
Thank you for handling this with integrity, Daniel. I purchased a lifetime license and I haven't updated or upgraded. But I have a problem with a company making moves like this. It's nice to know that you can't be bought.
I saw a message pop up for me saying if you upgrade to version 12, you may lose your lifetime license, so I haven't upgraded my software. I purchased Filmora because of Daniel's tutorials also. I'm so glad he's calling this out and chiming in about this! I'm totally disgusted with what filmora is doing. Why not charge FUTURE customers a monthly fee and STOP offering lifetime licenses? Why do this to the loyal customers that purchased this product? This is HORRIBLE customer service and business practices! I'm going to look into Davinci Resolve. Thanks for the tip Daniel!
Good on you for calling them out!! They CANNOT just pretend all the previous Lifetime License holders are somehow the same as the Perpetual Plan holders! There is DEFINITELY a class action lawsuit here.
@@ChillaxeMake Wrong. The issue here is the Terms of Service and the legal contract between Filmora and it's Lifetime Membership users changed after most of those users had already purchased the Lifetime Membership and agree to the TOS in place back then. In a 2007 decision, Douglas v. Talk America. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that a business must notify users about proposed changes to the TOS and obtain their consent. That consent must be explicit, meaning that if the user simply keeps using the software after the TOS change, that is NOT good enough for consent of the new TOS changes. Since no notification was ever sent to users explaining or even mentioning the TOS changes, laws were broken.
@@ChillaxeMake Nonsense. Terms of service don't mean *anything* in regards to legality. Changing the wording from update to upgrade also does not mean anything. This is an easy class action and will bite them in the ass I guarantee you. And you certainly can't just change your contract with someone whenever you want. Private person or large corporation. Only difference is the latter often gets away with it because people don't know better.
I have never seen you or your channel or watched any videos on video editing software that I can remember, but I got recommended this and watched it and I'm glad I did. I was frankly stunned at your professionalism, there were so many times you could have been nasty in describing this situation, yet you kept your cool and was generously polite to people who basically misrepresented themselves and ripped you and your viewers off. All I can say is, buddy, you are sincerely a class act.
they literally took the "there is no lifetime license in ba sing se" route, I can't imagine how frustrating it is to actually COMMUNICATE with them right now when they are actively and obviously ignoring half of what people say. I've been a bit bitter towards filmora since I used the free version for a high school project and didn't realize the watermark would block out nearly the ENTIRE exported video (that had to be shown in class, I was a bit embarrassed). but since I had been seeing sponsorship segment over the past couple years, I definitely wasn't expecting something like THIS to happen! I feel bad for the employees who can probably do nothing but relay information and speak as they're told.
This is for me, first hearing of Filmora - and you. It never, unfortunately, surprises me when companies believe they can buy silence. It is a pleasant surprise when they fail. The best thing Filmora could have done was to contact all Lifetime license holders months ago to let them know of their change in scheme - and make an offer to convert the license at a high discount. That would have defused this whole mess before it blew up in their face. Imagine nearly every creator recommending any other Software package to their viewers and subscribers. Filmora -- you reading this? - Craftsman isn't credited when folks use Craftsman tools to make a masterpiece - its the skill of the artist, not always the quality of the tool that makes the difference.
Also, I really appreciate a content creator giving a warning on a previous sponsor and being able to talk to their audience about problems regardless of the money involved. It really shows you have a focus on helping other content creators and are not willing to sacrifice your integrity for money.
I love the fact that they credit your progression and success to their product. You were the effective Kickstarter for the company. It’s like saying to an original shareholder that their shares are now worthless as the company has grown! Wondershare will live to regret getting in the world of internet scams
I never put much trust on Wondershare before because their products and marketing always felt very sketchy to me, specially when it came to creating "articles" in their website teaching how to do something very specific (like converting something from A to B) and "conveniently" their product was "the best option" for that. I know, many other brands also do this kind of stuff, but I just don't trust it. Not honoring something they sold as "lifetime" for a large sum of money in the past is yet another reason I want to be as far as possible from that scam company!
@@MatheusPratta AhHa! That might be why the Algorithm showed me this video. But it's also disturbing... I saw one of those articles, as I wanted to quickly convert a bunch of FLAC files to mp3 for Christmas dinner at a relative's place. And FFmpeg doesn't have LAME built in, and I want to convert several directories. I downloaded the "recommended" software only to get pop-up ads as part of the install, and the browser open to more stuff. And I find out it costs to use -- AFTER I had installed it. So, I may have picked up browser cookies for Wondershare, including trackers that cut across websites and basically know your history (when there are ads served, and for sites that advertise). So, Google knows I bumped into them. And shortly after, the Algorithm decides this would be interesting to me.
@@JohnDlugosz For future reference, if you're trying to convert audio files from one format to another, like FLAC to MP3 or any other audio format. You can use Foobar 2000 (plus the free encoder pack) all for free with no fees, watermarks or any other restrictions, ever.
The fact that they had the audacity to ask for another collaboration for your silence is down right hilarious! The idea that they think they can get away with this when it is legally dubious, is either fuelled by a massive ego, or stupidity. Even the average guy can tell this is something that is legally dubious.
It's typical greediness by some people in suits. They don't care. If Wondershare goes under the bus they take their money and go to the next company to destroy.
Right there in the beginning he said that he doesn't talk bad about the sponsors, so basically means he doesn't tell all the truth about them. It's all about $ for both of them. They worth each other.
Or by saying sorry, after _ _ _ this program will no longer be supported by the lifetime warranty due to the rising costs, you will have to buy the new Program in a plan but note your old programs will still work for the users of them.
that is probably a good idea. And then maybe just offer 1 or 2 updates for existing filmore license holders. But it does cause to remind me that anytime i see "lifetime" on a product and service.. that is only as good as the company staying in business or the future administrators honoring a "lifetime" deal. And I don't think it is worth making a purchase if the only way it makes sense is if it is good for my lifetime. BTW, the "lifetime" clause brings into question.. that there are some kind of time limitations. Who's lifetime are they referring to?
@@manp1039 Or lifetime of the buyer of the item like with physical items. As the second owner/person you passed it down to in family should not have the warranty for the item, as they are getting a second hand item from the original person often not paying full price for the item.
They refuse to directly acknowledge it because they know stealth changing the terminology of the contract after the fact is grounds for a lawsuit and if they say anything directly addressing it, it’s an admission of guilt and puts them at legal liability.
As someone who literally uses Filmora to edit videos about ethics, this hit home so hard. I've started dabbling in Resolve and will probably do some more videos in Filmora 11, but will start transitioning away. At this point it isn't about the cost of "upgrading", it's about the principle, and I don't want to reward predatory behavior.
Be careful with Resolve. They catch you with being free but then they force you to buy expensive hardware to do basic things that other software can do by default. For example, from what I've heard from a friend, you have to buy a PCIe card with a dedicated HDMI output to be able to preview video on a monitor. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't use Resolve myself.
@@giusepperana6354 1: if you have the studio version, you can use any monitor attached to your computer to output preview video. go to workspace > video clean feed and select your monitor 2: the decklink cards also does sdi/hdmi capture and not just output. also, the decklink cards are literally some of the cheapest capture & output cards you can buy. for example, the decklink sdi 4k is 295usd while the aja kona 1 which only supports 3g-sdi and only supports 2048x1080 max, costs 749usd it is also worth mentioning that up to this point, the resolve studio licenses are lifetime and can be installed on two computers
Clearly, this is a breach of their original terms. They are counting on the little guys not fighting back. They have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted. I applaud your stand. Sadly, integrity is in short supply in the world today, we should demand from the people with which we do business.
Salute to you Daniel. I am also a "lifetime" owner and I had the same experience. When I called Wondershare support, I was advised that they would give me a "free" upgrade to Filmora 12. I explained that I had purchased a lifetime license that included free updates and upgrades going forward. That cemented me as a customer. To throw all of their lifetime customers under the bus was and is a REALLY poor business plan, as the original purchasers helped build their business and now are sticking it to those original customers. Throwing their original customers who helped the build the brand is the quickest and dumbest way to tick them off and badmouth them to any future customers as a warning as to how to expect to be treated going forward. I certainly feel as you do and wish perhaps a lawyer among us would make Wondershare aware of their responsibilities, as well to the threat of disloyalty of purchasing other products from them if they abandon their legal responsibilities.
Even if it was clear, they made a mistake. A huge loyal customer base that doesn’t pay for anything going forward is useless. Eventually they would be relying on a small user base to fund development for the rest of you. They should have been smart and ended Filmora and called version 12 something different, like Filmora Pro, that would have been a smarter move from a customer relations perspective.
It’s been many years ago but I read an article on Eula people receive in a year. The article worked out to read and comprehend all the EULAs you receive in that year would take nearly a year and a half to read if you had a law education that reduced the time by already knowing some basics of the verbiage and related law. It predicted with the then new advent of mobile store fronts such as Apple App Store and android google play that the number could and very well would reach over two years time to read and digest in the 2020’s. Wish I could remember where I read that article it was some where in the neighborhood of 08 and I believe I remember reading it when trying to decide to leave black berry for iOS back then. I don’t know what the answer to the madness that is the current situation of lengthy terms of service/ EULAs is a litigious nightmare. Someone way smarter than I am will and must figure out a universal Eula/tos or legal system that grants certain rights to consumers that can not be usurped by intelligent law students.
Most professional 'slap' at a company that sneakily changed the rules in the background that I have ever seen; you've also just saved people new to video editing/editing software options a lot of potential future headaches! Thanks and keep updating us on this story!
Been a Davinci Resolve user for 2 years now and still going strong, This video is amazing and very touching. Daniel Rejecting money and standing up for what is right is very inspiring and motivating me to do the same. Thank you for shining the light
I’m in my second year as Resolve user. It’s main selling point to me was it’s color grading software and the fact it was not a subscription service. I feel like I’ve gotten every penny out of what I’ve paid for in resolve and I’ve not even utilized it to it’s full potential.
Second year user of Davinci as well, but also used Filmora at my office job. I always hated using Filmora because I knew that while it was more beginner friendly, it was vastly inferior. My office job has lifetime subs to it as well. I always suggested to the higher ups that we switch to resolve and every video tech be trained on Davinci. No one listened to me. Now I’m getting the last laugh. I’m still trucking along with my solo projects, getting regular updates and it’s all free. I did end up buying a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema and it came with a free lifetime license to Davinci Studio, so I am now using the paid version. But I didn’t really pay for it directly. Great software, high learning curve, but every video compositing feature known to man available in this one software. I would suggest using the Casey Farris tutorials here on RUclips if you’re new and trying to cut your teeth on video compositing with Resolve.
I was one of the lifetime license purchasers during Filmora 9 and kept using the software and getting free updates up till Filmora 11. Was surprised and bamboozled when I booted up Filmora 11 last week and a pop-up saying that I need to pay to upgrade to Filmora 12. Your video here kept my sanity as it shows that I am not the only one who felt tricked by this predatory marketing tactic. Thanks Daniel, I've watched your tutorial videos back in the day when I just bought Filmora 9. Glad you're standing up to them now.
Thanks for the video, Daniel. I too was a "Lifetime User" of Filmora 9. I do very basic video editing and have no need for the fancy features. I was happy to just keep using Filmora 9 and have no need for the UPDATE or the UPGRADE. After I updated today, the prompt to pay showed up and have now un-installed Filmora after watching your video. I'm now checking out other "GREAT" video editing software.😉 Thank you once again and wishing you all the very best. New subscriber.🥰
I saw this message pop up yesterday when I hopped on Filmora... and wondered how it was going to affect the Lifetime offer. As a 4x Founder I have a deep appreciation for a company staying focused on growing and being profitable and sustainable. However, it's important a company stays in integrity with its users and provide advanced warning and several communications before making a change to terms and conditions. Thank you for being in integrity and sharing this info in this valuable video.
@Karl with a K It depends on semantics and interpretation of words plays into contract law. If they are going to distinguish between update and upgrade they are going to have to walk a razor-thin line. The courts would have to decide if this is a violation. However, on my wondershare filmora homepage, the ad says update which I thought they said we were covered in. Regardless it's spineless and I'd be willing to join in a class-action lawsuit if needed. I don't use filmora often, but this is about the principle.
@Karl with a K Exactly. And all necessary evidence is there. Again with Daniel being a PAID ambassador for Wondershare/Filmora, his videos clearly spoke to Wondershare's intention of the lifetime licenses! @Daniel Batal, I am not saying you did anything wrong, but, and I am not lawyer, ...in the eyes of the law, you were clearly representing the company and their product. Further, it can be argued that the company was well aware of your comments on the lifetime licenses and they, in no way at the time contradicted your statement(s) so it was clearly their posistion.
I can relate, I bought "AnyDVD" burning DVD's with a "lifetime update" they claim they were sued out of business, but "sold" their product to "some one else" that were not bound to the lifetime contract.
Never use paid software when free alternatives (often built into the operating system already) Imgburn has been around back since at least XP. Dvdstyler lets you make professional video DVDs, and even has that GNU license! GNU stuff is always better than paid products, because anyone can make improvements or forks. Filmora is not a GNU company.
A company that buys them should be required to honor the original license terms. Unfortunately it’s just not ever going to be worth taking them to court over it.
@@hautehussey A company that buys another company IS required to honor the original terms. If they want users to change contract, they a. would have to offer them a new deal b. give them compensation when they don't close the deal. because when you buy a company, you buy it with all it's legal obligations. Imagine buying a company and then telling the IRS: "I don't have to pay the tax debt that company had with you, I'm a new owner". You know what the IRS will say? "Well, yes, you are the new owner - of the debt too."
In short, Wondershare deceived its early adopters to gain momentum, and now that it no longer needs them, it discards them like trash. Now we know why it is a company that shall fail. It has no ethics. We've been Filmora users since 2019. But now we're checking out Da Vinci ReSolve instantly. Thanks! And we'll be sticking to your channel to learn about all other Filmora competitors that we can gladly give our money to thanks to your continued guidance, Daniel. Because you've been honest with us all along and, unlike Filmora, we can trust YOU. You've proven your honesty. Keep it up!
Time for a class action lawsuit! My parents have a lifetime subscription to SiriusXM and it was wild when the company tried to renege on it and got absolutely rekt by a class action forcing them to honor it Edit: If filmora doesn't change their tune with the public shaming I would recommend you genuinely contact a lawyer. This sounds VERY similar to the XM case and they were legally forced to honor their lifetime subscriptions despite nitpicky terms and conditions due to the false advertising that had their customers reasonably assume they'd have access in perpetuity. So it's worth a shot. It would also probably work well to have you as a contact point due to you having an audience that includes many license holders Edit 2: jk lol, just noticed the update video, glad they caved to public pressure
I agree with the sentiment, but class action is nearly pointless. Multiple individuals coming against them with lawyers individually - or with a non-class action coalition - is probably a better tactic - one that will force them to pay out to the individuals they defrauded at equal to or above the amount they were defrauded of, rather than the silly gesture of $10.00 per individual that usually results from class action.
@@spinx2273 right make them pay per case. i don't care if they caved to public pressure they already broke their agreement. doesn't mean they'll not do it again in 3 or 4 yrs or watch these users usage and slowly cut them off one by one and just keep bigger voices like youtubers honored
To be honest, those that purchased a lifetime licence got it for nearly peanuts. especially if you have been using it for years prior. So it would be a complete waste of your time and money with a lawsuit. Let nature take its course. In that process, Filmora will sooner or later lose all of its users, and possibly even its own software, or they will go back to honouring the lifetime licences. If it was me, i would just delete Filmora from my PC and find better software.
This sucks, there must have been a better way for them to back out of the lifetime membership. Gaslighting and ghosting users never ends up well. Thanks you pointing all this out.
Same EXACT thing happened to us Pro Tools users, when Avid changed over from licenses to ‘plans’. Now I’m paying $90 a month per license to use PT, when I’d bought many lifetime licenses back in 2010 for my commercial recording studio. They slipped in changes to the TOS during the many updates over the years and cherry picked the language that suited them best moving forward. Completely throwing their long time professional users under the bus.
I sincerely Wonder if their attorney provided this script for filmora based on their retainer or if they had to pay an extra litigation prevention fee on top of the standard retainer agreed on when they signed up with that attorney.
*@Greg Curtis* This just reminds me of why I'm grateful to have REAPER. That kind of behavior is just so despicable; the more loyal a customer has been, the worse it feels.
@@ryo-kai8587 I was just thinking how i would have absolutely no idea what i'd do if Reaper went subscription-only. It's one of the last bastions of perpetual-license pro software. I will have to pay for an upgrade starting with version 8 but that's not going to be for a fat while and they disclosed it beforehand, so I'm very happy.
Do they even have other options? I mean the same thing happened to Adobe 7--9 years go where people stopped using the product becuse the company Adobe would literally bork the program if you did not pay for every little update to the program and no there were no longer people buying year subscriptions or basic. Now Adobe is having some issues financially as nobody other then massive business buying the cooperate for more then 50 or 90 people are buying the subscriptions becuse the deal for big business is the issue, they even track so these companies have to be no more then 1 mile away from the main server the company is using. This means lots of people are not using Adobe or they got these odd versions of Adobe alike programs that are older on CD style but made modern for Windows__ that are floating around if you know where to look on the web where programmers cloned old XP CD versions of Adobie and updated them to work better under an odd name.
Hey Daniel, this really reminds me of the whole debacle Linus from LinusTechTips was facing with TeamViewer, where he had purchased a lifetime license and TeamViewer would try to "force his hand" to upgrade to a subscription.
Yes exactly, nonono 'filmora 12' is diferant, you bought a lifetime product of 'filmora',,,, totally 2 different things, give us money, even tho you bought flifetime of filmora 6, you gotta obide by filmora 8 terms, which you didnt aggree too but we choose that the licence means this now
It will soon be impossible to use older teamviewer licenses as they make them incompatible with Windows 11. Eventually they will block old licensed versions from the server.
A message to those at Filmora it is a despicable act to dupe your loyal customers in such a dishonourable way. Picking the pockets of those that helped your company grow and develop is not business but commercial suicide Daniel, I couldn’t have put it better on all levels thanks for sharing that info and continue the fabulous work 👍 Wondershare sold us a Lifetime LIE not License. I certainly don’t trust in the brand now. I think there is definitely a line of litigation for us all to consider here.
It's crazy because the number of people that bought life time licence shouldn't be that many and worst people that bought the life time plan and then would gladly pay more for version shouldn't be high and WORST still people that bought life time and now are discouraging people to interact with the software. Really feel slimy move to count on people laziness to get a few more buck
Yep. I got smacked by this, too. Any alternatives you can think of that can send clean HDMI out from the phone camera (and it has to be directly clean HDMI out).
That email was so completely craven. They have no legal leg to stand and are expecting people to be bound by terms and conditions they never agreed to. This is a slam dunk in court.
@@sarowie Yeah all the original users effected will have to do is provide proof they bought a lifetime membership and usually if its a money settlement its split up between all who file and get an approved claim. I've been a user from the Equifax class action lawsuit and got $45 and the GTX 970 3.5GB and .5GB vram lawsuit I forgot the amount for that one and a few others and it usually takes years though for payout and they have deadlines to file a claim but it one gets started I would file a claim and it takes like 15 minutes. The end users essentially just file a quick claim then if they win which it seems like a slam dunk sadly its usually just a cash win I think but maybe it can force them to change it back I'm not sure. A team of attorneys and legal people will do the long stuff. I've done about 5 class actions that directly involved me from products I bought or things that effected me but its usually 1-2 years after the deadline to file if one gets started but if you ever have the time and it effects you its quick and I'd do it. Better than nothing.
A good attorney could hang them out to dry in court for the bait and switch they’re attempting to pull. However, Filmora will most likely end up doing what other companies who have decided to get out from under lifetime licenses have done. Which is to “discontinue” their product and then turn around and rebrand it under a different name and claim it’s an entirely different product. In some cases they might even decide to shut down the original corporation to avoid future litigation and reincorporate under a new name. All perfectly legal. Many software companies have done the same in the past.
That was the nicest/polite way I have seen a RUclipsr absolutely wreck a company and still be very clear and informative 👌 Well done sir! I say they are like wtf do we even say back to that 😂
This has always been the selling point of FL Studio for me for music production. I don't do video editing, but if this happened in my field, I'd feel the same way. I expect a case out of this
Image Line Software, the parent company which develops FL Studio, says right in its own EULA: “Image Line may immediately terminate this EULA without prior notice….” They always seem to include an escape clause nowadays which gives them wriggle room to suddenly change their policies.
@@escapetherace1943 Clauses are often put in even if they aren't enforceable. Put any clause you want & then put a "severability clause." I wouldn't want to rely on their weak contract in court. Now, we're all aware of how poor their customer service is too. This is such a bad look for them on so many levels.
@@2namesmusic even worse they hit his early video they sponsored him to do with a false DMCA copyright strike. Rather than honoring the license and growing new customers they've basically decided to burn it all down now. I'd never give them a cent after hearing this and I'm glad I did, because I heard someone recommend Filmora just a week ago.
This is an awesome straight to the point "Got You" video. I haven't "upgraded" as they word it now. and it looks like so far, I will not update/upgrade to Filmora 12. Most likely I will start looking around for other software as well. I hate it when companies get money greedy and forget about what us the consumer/customers bring to the table. This "conference room" decision is probably going to cost them a lot of money. I sure hope they listen and allow those who have been with them for a while to maintain our lifetime status. Enforce the new rules on the new customers not the ones who have been using the software for many years now.
As newbie I was looking at getting Filmora but with this code of conduct by the Filmora team towards their users this is absolutely not an option anymore. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Yeah, I just found the software and wanted to buy it. I wouldn't even mind if I could buy a licence for the current version that I could keep for several years. 60usd yearly is just too much to pay if i use it only occasionally.
This has happened with so many of my lifetime licenses with other programs and I hated the song and dance they would do to avoid the topic. I'm glad you stood strong on this topic.
Daniel, I'm a first -time view of your channel, but this was powerful. Thanks for the effort you put into this clean and logical viewpoint. I have a lifetime license as well, and I guess I just learned it's lifetime ended. Moving on.
I, too, got tired of being pushed to pay for yearly upgrades or to sign up for annual subscriptions for other not to be named video editors and switched to Davinci Resolve (The free version) several years back. I loved it so much that I bought their “lifetime” studio license that is good for two computers at a time. Never looked back. (Now I’m wondering if Blackmagic will eventually pull something similar to Filmora.)
@@brandoncyoung Wait for it. Once the hardware money dries up , they'll start looking for ways to increase their "revenue". It's the same story with every company.
This has been something many companies have been pulling, revoking their lifetime licenses. It's a shame that them breaking their promises is going to inevitably lead to a lawsuit or law change and make almost no companies every sell lifetime licenses anymore.
@@wanderinwolf3804 Is keeping their word more important than staying in business? Do their employees agree with you? It sounds me like they screwed up and offered something that wasn't sustainable. Would the OP be happier, if they just went under? I suspect he would not.
@@Tijuanabill in this instance, yes. They deserve to go under. Yes it sucks for their employees, life sucks, get over it. But this company deserves to go out of business at this rate. So to answer your question, is a business keeping it's word more important than it staying in business? Yes, 1000x yes. And the answer will always be yes. If the answer is ever no, then you are giving the companies way too much power to basically do whatever/whenever they want.
I'm a long time DaVinci user, so not affected by this issue personally. However, I'd like to applaud your unwaveringly honest, moral AND respectful approach to this company's decisions. It would have been so easy to just post a baleful rant, given the move they pulled, but you kept it classy. Full marks, and you have a new subscriber.
Old school guy here who got used to Filmora because of it's ease of use. Would love to use Davinci but it looks way too complicated in comparison. Wonder if I can figure it out.
It's amazing to me how these companies offer lifetime licenses because they're short on cash. Then, as a thank you to the people who gave them this upfront cash, they just cancel the 'lifetime' subscriptions when they decide they aren't getting enough of their improved income. This is one of the ways companies end up showing their true colors.
This was the exact reason I stopped dealing with Adobe who used to be one of the leading software developers that was pro independent creator in the early days. They weren’t as dastardly as filmora, but the subscription model is not beneficial to indies who aren’t yet making a living from their work, nor the hobbyist. Some people simply want to own their tools outright and then not have to worry about choosing between work and the light bill down the road should things get tight.
@Tetrazole if it's such a negligible amount of money why don't you Venmo op 10 bucks right now? Surely somebody as financially stable as yourself could afford it
I "had" to upgrade from CS5 to CS6 to get a version of photoshop that would work with the raw files from my D750. I'm glad that I did and that I tracked down Lightroom CS6. I sometimes make money from shooting, but mostly do it for the fun of it, and I'm definitely not going to pay for a subscription to software. Fortunately, Lightroom can convert my D850's NEF files to DNGs that I can then open in Photoshop, but it's kind of convoluted. I'm just going ride out CS6 until it hits a point of uselessness with whatever camera I get next, then no more Adobe products for me.
@@EpicureMammon I still use CS6, on a purchased key that probably wasn't legit, but oh well. Will never upgrade until this PC dies and then? Affinity Photo.
I love that the algorithm put this in my feed. These guys are dirty... they know it too. I never wish for someone and their business to not succeed when they have a good product, but when their business "practices" go bad, they no longer deserve the business or the success. Kudos Daniel for letting us all know who to avoid. A+++ on your professional delivery of this message too.
This is the first of your videos I've come across, and I must say - well done! Even though you and many thousands of others are getting screwed over, you remained sensible and extremely articulate as a true professional. Bravo, Daniel. Great callout.
I was one of those that got filmora because of you! I've followed you for many yrs now and learned enough from your videos. I can't believe its been a yr you posted this video and I missed it! But I made the same choice not to pay for something I had and was taken away!!! Please keep doing greats video, and I know you will do Great with any video editing software you get your hands on! Thanks for everything!
I heard somewhere 80% of a business income comes from repeat customers. That is not a way to keep long time users happy. Thank you for doing the right thing and telling us about it. You have shown great integrity and you seem like an awesome dude. Keep up the good work.
@@y0u1 you can't ignore the power of word of mouth though. Through positive word of mouth Filmora got a bunch of business from this channel, now through negative word of mouth I imagine they'll lose potential customers
@@y0u1 They do though. Just having a large user base is a great selling point for software. Many people feel comfortable using what everyone else is. Happy users talk and make videos that promote the software to new buyers. Conversely they don't take much away. Maybe some support hours but as a software user base grows users often help each other more than getting support from the company behind the software. Plus as they stopped the lifetime licensing a few versions ago there is a limited number of those licenses in use that will only ever drop in number. I think they really should just continue to give the software out to those that paid for lifetime licenses. It's not going to ruin them to give out digital products they have an endless supply of to a small portion of the people that want them and had already paid for them. These lifetime license users are the ones that paid the big bucks at a time the company used the money to grow into what it is today. Filmora depended on them and has now abandoned them. If they don't like it they can just rebrand and not have an issue. They want the brand that these users paid to make bigger though.
You got me into Filmora and your instructional videos are some of the best on the web. For Filmora to betray you like this is outrageous! So, Daniel, where do we go from here? Tell me and I'm on board!
Thank you so much. Our team was going to purchase a lot of licenses, but not now. Unethical to the core and the emails they sent you shameful. I'll be telling people in our community to steer clear if they don't know already.
Shocking, and quite rightly goodbye Filmora. I learnt so much from you on Filmora and you certainly helped me develop my videos to use on my other YT channel, thank you. Looking forward to seeing which video editor you'll use next. I may follow suit.
This is exactly what happened to me the other day. I only purchased it because I tried to export and needed to finish a project within an hour. I committed that this was the last $30 I would give them and to find another software. They attempted to automatically add the Filmora Stock subscription and something else to my cart. This was so annoying. Daniel let us know what's next, I appreciate your willingness to speak the truth and to share it with us.
I am also a lifetime license holder and I'm glad you made this video. It basically says everything that I wanted to say. I paid for the new upgrade but honestly every update just gets worse and is full of bugs. I'll be switching to something else because I cannot support a shady company like Wondershare.
So many bugs, it feels like I'm standing in a cornfield ! About a month ago, I deceided to give a try at DaVinci Resolve, even though I knew about it being a "gas factory" for such beginners as I am in editing. Well... things are going slowly, but they go their way and I'm feeling better and better when using it for my montages. The great thing is the level of precision they managed to achieve in every tool offered, and the (almost endless) possibily to go deep into adjustements. This software is pure madness for anyone who's obsessed with quality... a little dangerous too, for you may find yourself chasing perfection. The free version allows for HD only exported videos, but their quality is sooooo sharp they easily keep up with Filmora UHD exports. What is amazing : when F. got my computer to clog, lag, shut down (you name it, I had it all !)... DaVinci lets my machine work in a flow without any trouble. In a whole month, I only had one software crash when trying to otherwise playback UHD videos while it was creating proxys... I easily can forgive that, for it can be blamed on me for asking a bit too much to the processors. My mind is set : F. no more !
It s about time to take some legal actions ! Give them some headaches."Lifetime licenses covers until the service exist".There is a clear deceit on their part. Good luck on Filmora Legal team.!!!
Bitwig pulled the same stunt a few months ago. The community blew up upon realizing the breach of EULA and Bitwig ended up reversing their controversial decision. It's always good for you and everyone to talk about these things openly as we're steadily moving towards a dystopian SaaS world.
Yup, SaaS is essentially theft, shakedown and extortion. "Perpetual plan" is the same as NOT a lifetime license, haha!
Год назад+64
I have always admired you as a content creator, but now I look up to you as a person. You stood your ground on behalf of all of us. You helped Filmora grow, not all the way around as they want to belive. More than ever, I will trust your advice on the alternatives, it will be a pleasure to learn editing from you in a different software. Respect, bro.
I appreciate the kind words. I'm going live on my channel today at 10:00 am EST with Jay Lippman, my resident DaVinci Resolve expert, to help users learn how to get started with that software. They have a completely free version lots of creators use. ruclips.net/user/livemYX5SrLtkWk?feature=share
Filmora punishing early adopters absolutely tells non-users like me to steer clear of it when I get into editing in the future. Time to learn Kden Live for now lol
If they are seriously concerned about loss of revenue, then this is the worst way to go ahead about it. Say in some time lifetime users make up a very small proportion of users, the "lost" revenue from them not making regular payments would be extremely minor in scale to all the other users. These legacy users are also the ones that have made Filmora what it is today through their early adoption. Now instead they have completely put a very dark label against their brand that will steer new users away... especially bad in a market that is as crowded as video editing software where competition is abundant
I once had a very very easy editing software with much asset's to use. It was the pre-HD era. Years later i found out it was now only a subscription software. I was shocked and used kdenlive. I do not make high quality videos so I don't want to pay for simple tasks.
Yep. Will never buy any product by Wondershare. Better add it to the blacklist in my notes, so I don't forget in the future. What else can you do with the criminals(scammers)?
I also bought a lifetime license recently, I assumed everything would be included. For some reason it kept charging me so I cancelled any subscription I may have accidentally signed up for. Eventually I realized I lost access to paid effects, I didn't expect that.
It's seriously important to note that you as lifetime users have been given the 8-9 9-10 and 10-11 upgrades/updates free of charge. Whether the company decides to change their use of the word from update to upgrade is not important, what is important is whether the difference between an upgrade to 12 differs in any reasonable or substantial way than any previous upgrade until version 11. Filmora needs to prove that their new software is a separate product from its previous itterations (and their relative differences. Had they called 12 something like 'Filmora Neo' or something like that, it would imply that 'Filmora Neo' is not a continuation of the same product (which applies to reason). They didn't call it that - and hence a continuation of the same numbering system which afforded you upgrades between versions should also afford you an upgrade to 12. This means the only leg they have to stand on is whether they can prove that the upgrade to Filmora 12 differs substantially from previous whole number upgrades. My money says it is not.
@teknokracy actually I'd probably agree they are new products tbh but seeing as Microsoft offered Licence holders free updates from XP to 10 then 11 it's probably an argument against your point overall? Bottom line; Microsoft are more customer-centric than these guys. Which is crazy!
@@ErrrorWayz if you have a lifetime license to a products versions and it was sold as such if they release a new version you should be entitled under the contract. Microsoft gave license holders an upgrade because it meets their strategic goals. It has nothing to do with obligation. It has nothing to do with whether it is a new product.
Got it in one Daniel. In Australia, it's called misleading and deceptive conduct. On top of that, their response to my query (at least) is patronising: "We're sorry you misunderstood the terms when you signed up for your perpetual/lifetime licence". What they SHOULD do is honour the lifetime licence for people who bought it under that agreement, and perpetual for anyone who signed up from Filmora X. That said, they upgraded my 10 to 11 for free, and from 9 to 10 for free.
@@Daniel_Batal LOL, it's clear what they are trying to do. Wondershare just tried to bribe me again, and simply used the same cut and paste reply as the previous one.
@@roar666 I usually tell scummy companies like this that you’ll be taking the matter to NCAT or VCAT, QCAT etc and ask them who their onshore representative will be to serve documents to. They’ll need to refund your initial purchase price.
I know that proprietary software is currently easier to use for video production, but if people start using open source software and donating to the projects they use, you will never lose access to the software you rely on.
The problem is that FOSS video editing software just isn't really there, yet. It's _useable,_ but it's not on the same level as proprietary software options. FOSS video editors are workable for most individual users and small outfits, but they lack the support and integration that make a _big_ difference in larger production environments. The other big problem is that an inherent downside of _any_ FOSS project is a general lack of support. You can have the world's most consistently-updated wikis, the noob-friendliest forums, and simple instructions for every possible thing you want to do (which, BTW, isn't true for _any_ open source project, but let's pretend it is), but when you have _serious_ money on the line, you just can't beat having the ability to pick up a phone and _call_ someone who knows exactly how to deal with your problem and may even be able to send a technician out to figure out your problem. I agree, though, on the premise that FOSS project need more support, and there is a lot of stuff out there that needs more support and awareness, and that most people who are just starting out could probably do everything they need to do with a suite of FOSS software that they've put together. But the feasibility of professional creative outlets switching over completely is such that even if some studios _do_ go through with it, it will still probably be an exception and not the rule. GIMP has made _tremendous_ leaps in improving the UI to not be a nightmare, and it has helped them penetrate into the market a bit more. But the problem is that if something goes wrong then you have nobody to call except for something like Stack Exchange where you will have the benefit of having someone yell "RTFM" at you, get mad at you for not using the terminal, and then get mad at you when you tell them that, no, transitioning your whole company's IT infrastructure over to Linux so you _can_ have the terminal is not a reasonable solution to your problem.
@@Kevin-jb2pv Agreed, I would also like to elaborate that there is little incentive for FOSS to constantly improve its UI and their users' productivity. I often see responses that are workarounds as proof "you can do what you need with software X" when that workaround isn't practical for someone working to meet a deadline. I really do appreciate the contribution made by FOSS developers, and I am glad tools like GIMP and Shotcut exist, but there isn't enough reason for them to be competitive even in the long term.
@@paulidevoss7249 the point is to support open source projects so they'll have the resources to optimize their software and it will benefit everyone. Something that is just no cost can be taken away, and even if that weren't an issue I would rather support open source developers over a goddamned corporation. My last two laptops came from Purism and my new Librem 5 was finally delivered a week ago. I didn't like having to wait 3 years to get my phone and could have made the short-sighted decision to only care about saving money, but without work done by Purism the relatively cheap Pinephone and Pinephone Pro that I was using while waiting for the L5 would have been far more unpleasant to use and have a far more limited range of OSs to run. I am hoping that people will eventually get sick of letting tech companies use them as a product to be sold to advertisers, and while I wait for that to happen I am happy to spend a little extra money to help build an ecosystem that will be mature enough to serve as a viable alternative for the average person. The world doesn't have to suck as badly as it presently does, but for any improvement to happen people will need to make conscious decisions that won't always be easy. I was making the comment in that spirit, which is why I am not interested in a free but proprietary option.
Yeap, likely there was something about "agreeing to future licence changes" or, if it wasn't, they "solved" it by changing wording form "updates" to "upgrades".
This is my first time ever watching one of your videos. And I must say, you handled this in a much nicer, classier way than I would have! This company is screwing over the most loyal set of customers they have. To pull this, is unacceptable. And I hope somebody decides to sue them. Companies who pull this need to be checked. And checked hard!
@@Unpopularity from what i know most statutes of limitations start running from when one reasonable discovers the wrong. in other words, them burying something in the terms and conditions of version 9 does not cause the statute to run out, as you weren't on notice of the wrong until now.
@@Unpopularity unfortunately while the morality of the move is in question, it is perfectly legal. to answer your question, if someone still had version 8, they can continue to have lifetime updates should they choose to accept them. but as soon as they actually take the update they need to agree to forfeit the updates so yes, they did “sneak attack” their users but there is no grounds for a suit at all.
@@takingafatdump where did you learn about civil law? Lol. It most certainly is illegal. It is called bait and switch. And many State’s Attorney Generals have sued companies on behalf of consumers for this type of thing. Not to mention The State Office of Consumer Protection. You cannot guarantee someone free lifetime updates, then bury in those updates wording that takes away those rights for those who purchased under the previous terms. They must be “Grandfathered” in. They can update the terms moving forward for future customers who sign up. But they cannot null and void the terms of previous lifetime agreements. Period… Case after case after case has been brought and won in instances like this. Including against cell phone and utility companies. And actually, they can even be fined and fined daily, with heavy penalties if found guilty in a civil court of law. And if a case is brought by the Division of Consumer Protection and they are found in breech of contract with the consumer, a court case doesn’t even need to be brought in order to fine them, in some cases, up to $10K a day for violation of consumer law. FYI, I spent well over 20 years working in Civil Law in the state of Utah… TBH, you sound like somebody who works for them. Who is trying to confuse customers into not knowing their rights.
All I can tell anyone reading this troll “taking a fat dump”s post, is: DON’T BELIEVE A WORD HE IS SAYING. He doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about. Plain and simple. I have handled a case to my State Supreme Court in Civil Court. This guy is obviously a hack, who either works for this company. Or is simply trying to troll everyone here. Either way, I can see why he needs to “take a fat dump”, because he is full of 💩. Straight up. And I am calling you on it. Because by your last couple posts alone, it is absolutely clear you don’t know ANYTHING about how Consumer Civil Law works. As in NOTHING… There was a very similar case with another example. Ma Bell. Back in the day. Had offered a monthly phone service plan forever. At a specific price. They upgraded their networks? Upgraded their service. And they tried to cancel all those lifetime agreements. Guess what? They were sued. By my state. And had to eventually honor the deal. How do I know? Because my mom was one of the customers who was part of the settlement… This is a case where if a class action was filed, they would lose. Same as other software companies have. Including Microsoft. The only reason they may get away with it, is simply because nobody wants to spend the resources to sue. Not because they have legal ground to do what they did. I would suggest whoever lives in their state of operation contact the State’s Attorney General. And also The Division of Consumer Protection. Start there first. By filing FREE complaints. And see if the offices decide to get involved. Or get the local news stations involved. A lot of times, the heat from these things is enough to get them to reverse course on what they did. Also the BBB fie a complaint. This won’t do anything besides make a record of their poor business practices.
I love it when I randomly find a video that doesnt apply to me but after watching the whole thing through, Im left feeling warm and fuzzy and well educated. I feel the same.. it reminds me of the Dr Who episode.. 'Words' - Great video, thank you
This isn't a topic that I'd normally be interested in, but RUclips tossed it into my recommendations, and I do use other software with a similar lifetime purchase, although all of those companies still honor that. Got hooked by the video style and all the low jabs he took at them for being shady. Guess his video editing tips really work, if I ever need to create videos to support my music, I'll definitely be running through the whole channel...
I don't think I would have ever been introduced to you without this video, so thanks to Filmora for dropping the ball so hard that they did an Adobe Photoshop and basically screwed them over like that with their money grab. Since the editing skills you teach aren't bound to Filmora, I'll happily subscribe to you and see how I can translate a lot of that into my current hobbies (CSS-based web design with animation, and game cutscenes)!
so basically filmora becoming as scummy as adobe davinci resolve is more better option despite its flaws of non studio version alternatively open source software rarely to never backstab their users
I left Filmora today because of this. I thought I had a lifetime subscription and only had to pay once, I find out today they took money out of my bank and it is annual subscription. Im gone. I have subbed to your channel and look forward to more of your content thank you.
I used Filmora back in the day and loved it. After a few years, and after doing a lot of research I found DaVinci Resolve fit my needs (and it was free). It's a shame when companies start doing the "legalese" battle where it's "We didn't say THAT, we said THIS slightly different yet legally distinct thing that our lawyers told us to say".
@@SchizophrenicGamer huh, now I know how it feels when people find a random youtuber they used to watch on something entirely unrelated to the thing they watched them for
@@SchizophrenicGamer the mtx makes it all the more puzzling. it would've made them more money to keep the old license holders on board using the app, it's not like it costs them money that people use the app
Man, I hope you file a lawsuit against them and turn it into a class action suit. Please update us on results. Im no lawyer, but you have a strong case.
You summed up everything I've felt about this debacle, Daniel, thanks. I too purchased the lifetime license way back when and feel sucker punched by Wondershare. The way in which they've forced this approach also makes me question how viable is their business model and it's long-term outlook. It's one thing to stop offering lifetime licenses with the promise of future functionality, it's something completely different change the game for all those that helped them commercially in the early days when those same people could have been supporting the development of an open-source alternative. I've always enjoyed your videos and have found them highly practical. I guess it's time to find out about creating a new workflow with Resolve. Looking forward to your future videos.
While a "lifetime promise" of anything feels like a pipe dream we all believe in collectively, what's more important is that at this point, a "lifetime" anything from a company feels like a good litmus test: If a company can offer a lifetime guarantee of access to a product or service, or lifetime repair/replacement of their goods, then it shows they have confidence in their product AND they are secure in their future If a company suddenly reneges on these lifetime promises, then things are probably going bad and they have to salvage what revenue streams they have, or severely cut back on their commitments Either way, it shows you how to treat your relationship with that company going forward
As someone who uses Davinci Resolve and quite happily paid for a Studio license after ~1 year of basic use, you can't go wrong with them. I'm sorry FIlmora screwed you
Hi, I really loved this video, it basically shows the disregard these companies have for 'early adopters' of their products. I agree with you that as a content creator, you can create great videos on any product you wish to invest in, so these guys should look at this and really watch just be kind to their clients. Great video and very clear, well done.
Thank you for this video! I am a 'Lifetime' license holder and I would have never unpacked this on my own. I just subscribed to your channel and I am looking forward to receiving more information like this. You are telling truths and standing your ground and I appreciate that.
Hi Daniel, your videos came up in my suggestions and despite not using Filmora (hello from the FCPX camp!) I am now invested in this saga. I commend your professional approach and responses to everything that is going on as well as your dedication to bringing the issues to light, and I do hope that ultimately team Filmora come to the discussion table instead of the battlefront. 😊
I was considering this just today. Thank you for uploading this. I will not be purchasing. Knowing they are out to “trick” the user. The ones who keep them in business. The stubbornness is shown to clearly in the 2 emails. If they will do this to one of their ambassadors, what will they do to a “regular user? Wow.
I'm SO glad you made a video like this. It brings light to companies that are overtaken by greed, late-realizing that they didn't take part in the Subscription model rip-off, later sticking it to their customers.
I use Hitfilm Pro and got my liscence through a Humble Indie Bundle, and after Hitfilm Pro 16 I stopped getting updates for free. Which is okay, I understand the deal here but at least they are not doing any weird shenanigans, I can use the entire software like before, I just need to pay if I want to upgrade. I think if at least filmora let its lifetime users use the software without watermarks etc it would at least be okay. But putting back watermarks on someone who bought such a licence....wow! It just shows how greedy and stupid some humans are.
Ditto on that.. I stopped using Filmora after they cold turkey killed off the Pro version, of which I was a lifetime holder. In the end, the skill and knowledge, and fun projects I learned from RUclipsrs like Daniel was worth the whole filmora fiasco.. ha ha
Thanks for sharing this with us! Highly appreciated, Daniel. Yes, I bought Filmora bc of your great tutorials. And this is what counts for me. Let’s see where we are going to, either with or without Filmora. Keep up the good work, Daniel!
Hey, I know this was a year ago but I bought the lifetime license about two years ago when it was still available. It has only now tried to get me to pay 30 or so dollars to even use the software without a watermark and to use effects. We've spent well over a hundred dollars on filmora and wondering if you know anything we can do to either use filmora or get our money back.
As an early adopter, I purchased Filmora version 7.1.0 in June of 2016. The product was undergoing frequent updates and had a number of bugs when I purchased the LIFETIME LICENSE, but I appreciated its relative ease of use. In the product comparison and pricing chart, for the Lifetime License, like what you've shown in your video, Filmora clearly promised free updates for life. Their subsequent changing of pricing models and terms should apply to purchases of those respective versions. Filmora has gone back on its word with its early adopters and that is not acceptable.
@@Daniel_Batal thanks. By the way, I really appreciated your video and respect your transparency throughout. I've watched a couple of other videos that you linked to and have subscribed to your channel and look forward to learning more. You are a great communicator and engaging at the same time -- no easy feat. Thank you!
@@Daniel_Batal I had it. I updated when it was first announced, and the license was fine. I woke up this morning after watching this video and they changed it such that I must also upgrade now. I email support and they gave me essentially the same BS they gave you! So maybe influencers but now normal people.
I’ve never watched a single video from you but this was so well worded and you perfectly captured all the info and explained what was going on that I couldn’t help but sub. Frick Filmora and other companies for backstabbing the people who made them who they are. (cough cough Nintendo)
🔴 It Gets WORSE for Filmora Lifetime License Users! ▶ ruclips.net/video/KQ3bWLGZlGI/видео.html
yes movavi maybe the first sponsor of ur channel and u certainly could make editing videos fun and easy without filmora,but why is it after all these years u are a still updating filmora and holding on to filmora's zork?
and u seem pretty upset about a software, which u used to collab with but now ur just somebody that they used to know?
now stop talking like some 1990s disgruntled employee movie star, and hit us up so we can start a new partnership-fimora.
"we meant the lifetime of your plan. it died." XD
I always wondered what made people offer lifetime plans, knowing the cost would overrun the revenue some day. Seems they just never plan to keep their end of the deal.
Thank you daniel batal
It's not surprising as lifetime licenses don't make $$$$ they probably thought o great we offer lifetime licenses we don't make $$$$ so let's change the policy without notifying people 1st
I bought Fruity Loops (now FL Studio) back in the mid 1990's on a $99 Lifetime License. To this day I still get free updates / upgrades. There are companies that honor their license agreements with their end users. Filmora obviously isn't one of those anymore. You are completely right around calling them out.
Same here. Fruity Loops way back in the 90’s and still get free upgrades today. Amazing
@@zapjunkie Do they still have lifetime license?
Cool. They probably don't want to get sued. There's probably a case with filmora. There banking on no one will spend the money to sue them.
@@jimmyjohnjuan well, getting sued is one thing, but public image is one thing.
Giving long therm costumers the updates for free as promised costs virtually no money.
Taking the license away causes media backlash. That washes over.
The media backlash creates a wikipedia section in the article about company and software.
That will remain. Try to remove it hard enough and you get a fresh media backlash followed by yet an other section.
At that point, you might as well rename the company and product and hope that no media outlet writes "they renamed them self because of media backlash due to changes in the license".
@EverGame Studios Go to the site, try to recover your account, or create a case and they'll probably find you by name and email
Thank you for calling them out on this Daniel. Got a rude shock on opening filmora recently for a project. This is bad not only from an ethical point of view but also from a legal point of view. Thank you for being so honest and standing your ground with them on behalf of all of us. Their reply to you is shocking and disappointing to say the least. “The rules of the game cannot be changed once it begins”. Heartbreaking indeed.
Very heartbreaking. I wish they'd rethink their decision but I don't hold out much hope
@@Daniel_Batal yeah they won’t. On a lighter note though, do not even ask them to reconsider, unless you want more “collaboration” offers 🤣
Yes as a subscriber to Filmora I to was thinking about the legal aspect.
@@Butterfly07949 Yeah. From a legal standpoint, this is breach of contract but i guess, as Daniel rightly pointed out that when you “upgraded” not “updated” to Filmora X or 11 you have agreed to the ‘hidden’ change in terms and conditions of the contract and agreed to perpetual license limited to that particular version (X or 11 as the case may be) and thereby agreed to pay for the “update” to a newer version i.e 12 in this case. So they may get away with that. Very unfortunate. Thats why they are referring to Filmora 9 in their mail. Very smart.
@@Daniel_Batal - Should contact an attorney and see if they would be open to consider a class action lawsuit on behalf of all of the "Lifetime License holders" ( seeing that the attorneys are the only ones that really make any money on these types of cases while the consumers usually just get some sort of refund for the money they spent) and sue for the right to what they paid for.
Would think it would be cheaper for the company to just honor their word and let the original purchasers of Lifetime licenses continue to get free updates for life or at least for the newest version and then change the name of the Software and call it a new product going forward so it is no longer Filmora thus not covered under the initial license ( it's not like they would lose a ton of money by doing so since there are probably not that many people who bought those licenses when they were offered that still use the product. )
It is about time something like this is brought to court.
A lifetime license is a contract. And if the main selling point is "lifetime", the contract should not be able to be changed on that point.
Brought to court for what? "Lifetime" in a consumer product legally means the lifetime of the product, not the consumer. Never has, never will. Just learn the language and terminology and you will have less frustrations - and wasting money on a legal battle you will lose since it is already clearly defined what it means.
@@Luggruff "legally means the lifetime of the product"
Yes, and they are still making the product, which means the "lifetime" licensing should still apply.
@@Luggruff You'd be right if that isn't how the licenses have been functioning this whole time... It's the fact that the license for Filmora 6, 7, 8, 9 have functioned the same way this whole time. Now all of a sudden they don't? If Lifetime previously functionally meant "free updates to every subsequent version", you don't get to redefine or modify how the agreement applies between two parties after the fact. It doesn't work like that. That's how you get sued.
@@Luggruff The fact that theres precedence with Filmora's Lifetime License being compatible with every new version means that changing that is a modification of the agreement.
@@FrashGordon "Product's lifetime" usually refers to the specific software version. Sadly these words are confusing for most users, and doesn't help that these usually are not made clear, but generally speaking, you should always read the licenses terms when buying to really know what each term means and how it affects your license. I do feel like Filmora is in the wrong here if they weren't explicit about these things in their plans page, even if the license terms stated it, it should be obvious what that "Lifetime" plan covers to the plain eye.
The money "lost" from grandfathering in lifetime users would've been dramatically less than the money lost from negative publicity due to this greedy move.
Genius.
Also: your hair is awesome, dude
Well, how can I argue with that?
@@Daniel_Batal it's inarguable
There is no such thing as bad press.
@@ObscurousDecorous I’m afraid in this case there is. They could get slapped with a class action lawsuit if enough people hear of this or experience it start to get angry. It was a seriously stupid move on their part. To think I almost bought into a subscription today. And, very thankfully, I saw this. New Sub to this channel as well. Bad publicity in this case has stopped me from giving them my hard earned $$$. Super disappointed and disgusted.
I found out it's China brand
This is _absolutely_ a breach of contract. They don't have the authority to make unilateral changes to your contract with them, unless the contract said so at the time.
Even if the contract said so that clause is probably null and void
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Not to mention that some of this would be, at best, ambiguous, and would be construed in favor of the non-drafting party (which would be Daniel).
Yea well that entails litigation and litigation is expensive and their lawyers know that and bank on customers being too poor to protect their interests....
yes. their terms were not ambiguous. they clearly stated lifetime free updates. they went back on that and you'd win any claim against them in court. I hope they do the right thing and apply this refund of license credit to future "plans" + incentive
@@JWUnderwood007 This could easily be a small claims case (in which attorney representation is not allowed), or a class action with a lawyer who takes the case on contingency. Just need to find an attorney that works in this area.
I don't even use Filmora but I watched this video to the end because of just how well made it is. And that ending statement! 🔥🔥🔥
I appreciate that!
same here
100% agreed. This was flawless execution of a public breakup. It's everything I've feared about paying for an up-front "lifetime" subscription. Thank you for the information.
Haha me too! And subscribed!
Paused at 2:40, made a comment before continuing to watch to the end. Really well made else I would have moved on after commenting.
I'm surprised they didn't include a key for you to use in the email. Not only do they expect you to keep using and talk good about it, but purchase it yourself as well. Completely free for them to do, but they wanted your money too.
Presumably the key would've come once they agreed on a deal
This is my very first exposure to Filmora. I had no idea what it was prior to this video, so now this video is my very first impression of them.
Well done, Filmora. I hope the couple hundred dollars you made was worth the thousands in lost interest.
Same. I'd never heard of them. Now I have, and probably not in the way they'd want. If I'm looking for video editing software in the future, I absolutely will not consider Filmora. It won't be an option.
MBA mindset. They'll make a little more this quarter and less than they could have in future years.
@@WheatGrinding possibly. They may increase revenue longterm. Wouldn't be the first time.
this
I remember filmora I always thought it was a virus like all other wondershare products because when you download one thing theyre like oh you want a video editor take all this crap too its got the wondershare logo on it so you cant deny the installer from downloading it tee hee!
I've had several lifetime subscriptions/licenses on software products over the years. Generally speaking, most companies have been very good about honoring these agreements even decades later. Most of them realize that the damage caused by reneging on loyal users far outweighs any costs associated with keeping their promises.
I have too. But just like this video, I've also had a number of "lifetime" licenses pulled out from under me. The excuse has always been that the product changed too much to be considered the same product related to my license.
Example of a company that has been a good actor with a lifetime licenses please.
Snag It is the worst with this. They release updates for a few months then they release a “new” version so they can say you don’t women it anymore and want you to pay again.
@@dennis2966 same. Some good, some bad. It's kinda crazy how companies do this, when their early bird supporters, who got them off the ground, are usually a much smaller part of the total userbase. There's not a huge monetary loss in just not being awful to your og supporters. 😩
A sucker is born every second.
Do not buy lifetime licenses on software period at least in the US.
Lifetime is when they decide not when you decide. I bought one years ago and when it got to popular and expensive for them to honor the license they stopped.
Considering this is now one of the biggest viral Filmora videos, their greed definitely hurt them. I stopped using Filmora, and now only use Resolve, because their updates didn't actually improve the software or give us much needed features, they just integrated more in app purchases for us to buy more easily. Filmora used to be one of the best entry level video editing platforms, now it's just buggier, and more expensive. There is absolutely no reason to keep using it.
Exactly sometimes the updates caused more harm than it did good for me
I'll always listen to the recommendations on the comments
Are these softwares better than iMovie?
JEWBAGEL!!! AAAAAAAA
Is Resolve good?
Two words: CLASS ACTION. Clobber them in court and report them your state's AG for deceptive advertising and consumer fraud. Go for discovery and subpeona the terms from when you bought it.
They may just go Chapter 11 to get out from under.
@@DARANGULAFILMI believe bankruptcy does not exclude the debt from legal judgements in the case of fraud at the federal level so it might not help them.
@@DARANGULAFILM they would have to relaunch the product as a different program to get out from under it and they would then lose all their new plan customers and name recognition. It would be much cheaper for them to just give the lifetime holders the software.
they can go to chapter 11 but that protect you from you supliers but in a discrimination class action , idont thing is valid
if somebody start the court against Filmora - I AM IN- They were nice, but not anymore
This video is classy AF. Presenting facts, recognizing errors, call for correction, presents alternatives. Great vid. I don't even edit videos (yet) but when I start filmora will not be on my list of potential softwares. I won't support companies who aren't customer-centric
I appreciate the kind words ❤️
I've looked into many non-professional video editors, and none are customer-centric, so far as I can tell, regardless of their price.
Sir, Im not a content creator, before today I have never heard of You, your channel, or the software you discuss in your video. But the algorithm suggested i watch, so I watched it. This video showed how much of an honest and straight forward guy you are. You stood up for what was right, called out the wrong, all while remaining professional. Showed true loyalty to your fans, which earned my respect, my sub, and a like.
Same here!
Me too. Good to know the RUclips algorithm is sharing this.
Same, I don't create content and had no clue who Daniel was. But this was a great video.
Same here!
HAHA, same here and subbed. It's pretty crazy what we allow software companies to get away with in general. If you look deep into any terms and conditions anymore. They all basically say somewhere, "We can take this away at any time." for some reason or another.
One of the worst things a company can do is destroy its own community. Yet somehow, these companies continue to self-immolate. Thanks for sharing the issue.
When I was a kid I used to download cracked wondershare products because we didn't have copyright laws in my country... the thing that bothers me the most is that these companies punish their loyal customers to compensate for their so called lost money.
@@a.mo7a Yeah but lets be honest would you have bought the product even? Probably NOT, I've had so many cracked versions of things over the years like AutoCAD for example at one point. I had it to play with, let's say I was unable to download it would I have bought it NO so they didn't loose anything from me. It's a made up concept that somehow they lost money because you downloaded it as a hobbyist. Only time I agree 100% is when a company downloads something and is making money from using that product. Then YES there is damages because money is being made by using that copy of the software.
@@Meekerextreme Why is company different than an individual? It's the same thing
If you had no alternative software, then you'd save up for paid one, or do something else entirely.
It does impact developers.
@@tteqhu No I would have never saved up to play with AutoCAD for sh!ts and giggles...LOL Same for movies, I just forgot watching most that I have seen if I had to pay to watch them all...I watch them because I can download them. Sorry I don't feel bad about it nor will I ever.
@@Meekerextreme
Yeah I believe you would not pay for anything.
But don't justify it, let's just admit that it IS wrong, and just for your benefit.
You aren't "testing" and you are taking other's work for free.
Use free alternatives>support cracking paid versions
This is all I wanted to hear. I've been getting extremely frustrated with Wondershare and felt like nobody else cared. I'm happy to see everyone here shares my feelings.
Filmora support be like XD
I understand how frustrating it can be to feel like you are not being heard or that your concerns are not being taken seriously. It's important to have your voices and concerns heard, and to have a positive and satisfactory experience with a company and their products. If you have any further concerns about Wondershare or Filmora, you may want to consider reaching out to their customer support team for assistance. It's also a good idea to read reviews and ask for recommendations from trusted sources before making a purchase, to ensure that you are making an informed decision.
Thanks for making it clear that we editors should avoid companies like Filmora. Thanks for the heads up. Word spreads quickly.
its free anyways.. cracked versions exist.
@@amanda.collaud Can you send me a link to that?
@@amanda.collaud Some of us live by a code of ethics.
Europe has very stringent and clear protection for purchases of products and licenses. I think this might cost Filmora a lot of money that they are not aware of or think they can ignore!
We can hope Filmora gets a clue and hacks off, but if nit there are federal agencies that can be alerted to this. If anyone is motivated a consult with an intellectual property attorney might be worth your time.
Imagine thinking a Chinese company cares what Europe thinks
@@EverythingBattletech Imagine that they have money and assets all over the world in banks all over the world and EU the same as US can demand banks to freeze their assets in banks... They can be also banned from VISA/Master system and PayPal.
Was going to say this. Consumers in Europe have laws to protect them against this type of behaviour.
@@EverythingBattletech they can be banned from the European market all items sold in EU states must comply with EU regulations.
Thank you for handling this with integrity, Daniel. I purchased a lifetime license and I haven't updated or upgraded. But I have a problem with a company making moves like this. It's nice to know that you can't be bought.
All I've got is my word and the people who share in these conversations with me. That means more to me than money.
I saw a message pop up for me saying if you upgrade to version 12, you may lose your lifetime license, so I haven't upgraded my software. I purchased Filmora because of Daniel's tutorials also. I'm so glad he's calling this out and chiming in about this! I'm totally disgusted with what filmora is doing. Why not charge FUTURE customers a monthly fee and STOP offering lifetime licenses? Why do this to the loyal customers that purchased this product? This is HORRIBLE customer service and business practices! I'm going to look into Davinci Resolve. Thanks for the tip Daniel!
" It's nice to know that you can't be bought."
or maybe Wondershare didn't offer enough $$$$...
@@drunktrump5209 Very cynical and sad outlook on life my friend. The richest man in the world has nothing without integrity.
@@Daniel_Batal a mans word is quite literally the only thing that can not be taken or stolen.
Good on you for calling them out!! They CANNOT just pretend all the previous Lifetime License holders are somehow the same as the Perpetual Plan holders! There is DEFINITELY a class action lawsuit here.
You agreed to their rules, and to be under their influence, so you agreed to this. This isn't grounds for legal action.
@@ChillaxeMake you can't just say "this isn't grounds for legal action" without confirmation from someone who studied law
unless you are one of them
@@ChillaxeMake Wrong. The issue here is the Terms of Service and the legal contract between Filmora and it's Lifetime Membership users changed after most of those users had already purchased the Lifetime Membership and agree to the TOS in place back then. In a 2007 decision, Douglas v. Talk America. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that a business must notify users about proposed changes to the TOS and obtain their consent. That consent must be explicit, meaning that if the user simply keeps using the software after the TOS change, that is NOT good enough for consent of the new TOS changes. Since no notification was ever sent to users explaining or even mentioning the TOS changes, laws were broken.
@@ChillaxeMake "It's a private company, they can do anything they want."
I bet you're behind the Twitter censorship, too.🤣
@@ChillaxeMake Nonsense. Terms of service don't mean *anything* in regards to legality. Changing the wording from update to upgrade also does not mean anything. This is an easy class action and will bite them in the ass I guarantee you. And you certainly can't just change your contract with someone whenever you want. Private person or large corporation. Only difference is the latter often gets away with it because people don't know better.
My man, I'm sorry to hear about this! But bigtime kudos to you for handling it in a calm and professional manner.
I have never seen you or your channel or watched any videos on video editing software that I can remember, but I got recommended this and watched it and I'm glad I did. I was frankly stunned at your professionalism, there were so many times you could have been nasty in describing this situation, yet you kept your cool and was generously polite to people who basically misrepresented themselves and ripped you and your viewers off.
All I can say is, buddy, you are sincerely a class act.
It caught my eye because I downloaded the free version just yesterday! After watching this I immediately uninstalled.
Me too, thanks
@@Mrs.T.Rusch25 the free version sucks alooot specially because of watermark,get da vinci resolve
@@IrisBread I use shotcut
I watched under the same conditions. I appreciate your comment and recognition. Good on you, man.
they literally took the "there is no lifetime license in ba sing se" route, I can't imagine how frustrating it is to actually COMMUNICATE with them right now when they are actively and obviously ignoring half of what people say. I've been a bit bitter towards filmora since I used the free version for a high school project and didn't realize the watermark would block out nearly the ENTIRE exported video (that had to be shown in class, I was a bit embarrassed). but since I had been seeing sponsorship segment over the past couple years, I definitely wasn't expecting something like THIS to happen! I feel bad for the employees who can probably do nothing but relay information and speak as they're told.
Well said, ... their support is the worst
This is for me, first hearing of Filmora - and you. It never, unfortunately, surprises me when companies believe they can buy silence. It is a pleasant surprise when they fail. The best thing Filmora could have done was to contact all Lifetime license holders months ago to let them know of their change in scheme - and make an offer to convert the license at a high discount. That would have defused this whole mess before it blew up in their face. Imagine nearly every creator recommending any other Software package to their viewers and subscribers. Filmora -- you reading this? - Craftsman isn't credited when folks use Craftsman tools to make a masterpiece - its the skill of the artist, not always the quality of the tool that makes the difference.
Also, I really appreciate a content creator giving a warning on a previous sponsor and being able to talk to their audience about problems regardless of the money involved. It really shows you have a focus on helping other content creators and are not willing to sacrifice your integrity for money.
yups 100%
Ive been watching videos for a while now and i stan now.
@@duncanginsberg stan?
@@xybersurfer who?
@@jonmath4182 i was asking @duncanginsberg what they meant with "stan"
I love the fact that they credit your progression and success to their product. You were the effective Kickstarter for the company. It’s like saying to an original shareholder that their shares are now worthless as the company has grown! Wondershare will live to regret getting in the world of internet scams
I never put much trust on Wondershare before because their products and marketing always felt very sketchy to me, specially when it came to creating "articles" in their website teaching how to do something very specific (like converting something from A to B) and "conveniently" their product was "the best option" for that. I know, many other brands also do this kind of stuff, but I just don't trust it. Not honoring something they sold as "lifetime" for a large sum of money in the past is yet another reason I want to be as far as possible from that scam company!
@@MatheusPratta AhHa! That might be why the Algorithm showed me this video. But it's also disturbing... I saw one of those articles, as I wanted to quickly convert a bunch of FLAC files to mp3 for Christmas dinner at a relative's place. And FFmpeg doesn't have LAME built in, and I want to convert several directories. I downloaded the "recommended" software only to get pop-up ads as part of the install, and the browser open to more stuff. And I find out it costs to use -- AFTER I had installed it.
So, I may have picked up browser cookies for Wondershare, including trackers that cut across websites and basically know your history (when there are ads served, and for sites that advertise). So, Google knows I bumped into them. And shortly after, the Algorithm decides this would be interesting to me.
@@JohnDlugosz For future reference, if you're trying to convert audio files from one format to another, like FLAC to MP3 or any other audio format. You can use Foobar 2000 (plus the free encoder pack) all for free with no fees, watermarks or any other restrictions, ever.
@@grizcuz almost for a lifetime! 😉
The fact that they had the audacity to ask for another collaboration for your silence is down right hilarious! The idea that they think they can get away with this when it is legally dubious, is either fuelled by a massive ego, or stupidity. Even the average guy can tell this is something that is legally dubious.
It's typical greediness by some people in suits. They don't care. If Wondershare goes under the bus they take their money and go to the next company to destroy.
Sadly laws don't apply to shareholders.
Right there in the beginning he said that he doesn't talk bad about the sponsors, so basically means he doesn't tell all the truth about them. It's all about $ for both of them. They worth each other.
@@rightsdontcomewithpermits7073 he is actually destroying Filmora lmao
Even if it's legal, it's at the very least immoral.
The sad part is they actually could have avoided all of this by simply renaming the product and stating it was a "new program"
They wanted it both ways. Product Brand recognition with out the actual obligations accumulated while building that Brand.
Or by saying sorry, after _ _ _ this program will no longer be supported by the lifetime warranty due to the rising costs, you will have to buy the new Program in a plan but note your old programs will still work for the users of them.
that is probably a good idea. And then maybe just offer 1 or 2 updates for existing filmore license holders. But it does cause to remind me that anytime i see "lifetime" on a product and service.. that is only as good as the company staying in business or the future administrators honoring a "lifetime" deal. And I don't think it is worth making a purchase if the only way it makes sense is if it is good for my lifetime. BTW, the "lifetime" clause brings into question.. that there are some kind of time limitations. Who's lifetime are they referring to?
@@manp1039 Or lifetime of the buyer of the item like with physical items. As the second owner/person you passed it down to in family should not have the warranty for the item, as they are getting a second hand item from the original person often not paying full price for the item.
They wouldn't have avoided any of the outrage, just another scummy business tactic where people don't want to honor "lifetime" licenses.
They refuse to directly acknowledge it because they know stealth changing the terminology of the contract after the fact is grounds for a lawsuit and if they say anything directly addressing it, it’s an admission of guilt and puts them at legal liability.
As someone who literally uses Filmora to edit videos about ethics, this hit home so hard. I've started dabbling in Resolve and will probably do some more videos in Filmora 11, but will start transitioning away. At this point it isn't about the cost of "upgrading", it's about the principle, and I don't want to reward predatory behavior.
Videos about ethics! I'm going to have a look, we need more ethics.
Be careful with Resolve. They catch you with being free but then they force you to buy expensive hardware to do basic things that other software can do by default. For example, from what I've heard from a friend, you have to buy a PCIe card with a dedicated HDMI output to be able to preview video on a monitor. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't use Resolve myself.
@@giusepperana6354 I sincerely hope you are joking, and all that was an attempt at humor.
@@giusepperana6354, happy to correct you there - you don't need to purchase special hardware to use Davinci Resolve...
@@giusepperana6354
1: if you have the studio version, you can use any monitor attached to your computer to output preview video. go to workspace > video clean feed and select your monitor
2: the decklink cards also does sdi/hdmi capture and not just output. also, the decklink cards are literally some of the cheapest capture & output cards you can buy. for example, the decklink sdi 4k is 295usd while the aja kona 1 which only supports 3g-sdi and only supports 2048x1080 max, costs 749usd
it is also worth mentioning that up to this point, the resolve studio licenses are lifetime and can be installed on two computers
Clearly, this is a breach of their original terms. They are counting on the little guys not fighting back. They have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted. I applaud your stand. Sadly, integrity is in short supply in the world today, we should demand from the people with which we do business.
Salute to you Daniel. I am also a "lifetime" owner and I had the same experience. When I called Wondershare support, I was advised that they would give me a "free" upgrade to Filmora 12. I explained that I had purchased a lifetime license that included free updates and upgrades going forward. That cemented me as a customer. To throw all of their lifetime customers under the bus was and is a REALLY poor business plan, as the original purchasers helped build their business and now are sticking it to those original customers. Throwing their original customers who helped the build the brand is the quickest and dumbest way to tick them off and badmouth them to any future customers as a warning as to how to expect to be treated going forward.
I certainly feel as you do and wish perhaps a lawyer among us would make Wondershare aware of their responsibilities, as well to the threat of disloyalty of purchasing other products from them if they abandon their legal responsibilities.
I'm sure it was all in their agreement nobody read.
@@aaron___6014 lifetime updates means lifetime updates.
@@aaron___6014 it's not
Even if it was clear, they made a mistake. A huge loyal customer base that doesn’t pay for anything going forward is useless. Eventually they would be relying on a small user base to fund development for the rest of you. They should have been smart and ended Filmora and called version 12 something different, like Filmora Pro, that would have been a smarter move from a customer relations perspective.
It’s been many years ago but I read an article on Eula people receive in a year. The article worked out to read and comprehend all the EULAs you receive in that year would take nearly a year and a half to read if you had a law education that reduced the time by already knowing some basics of the verbiage and related law. It predicted with the then new advent of mobile store fronts such as Apple App Store and android google play that the number could and very well would reach over two years time to read and digest in the 2020’s. Wish I could remember where I read that article it was some where in the neighborhood of 08 and I believe I remember reading it when trying to decide to leave black berry for iOS back then. I don’t know what the answer to the madness that is the current situation of lengthy terms of service/ EULAs is a litigious nightmare. Someone way smarter than I am will and must figure out a universal Eula/tos or legal system that grants certain rights to consumers that can not be usurped by intelligent law students.
Never used filmora, but never will. Thanks for standing up as a voice for lifetime license holders. Subbed
Most professional 'slap' at a company that sneakily changed the rules in the background that I have ever seen; you've also just saved people new to video editing/editing software options a lot of potential future headaches! Thanks and keep updating us on this story!
Paypal changed its Eula, they can charge you 2500€ when you post some hate crime online. They are now the one stop online power.
Been a Davinci Resolve user for 2 years now and still going strong, This video is amazing and very touching. Daniel Rejecting money and standing up for what is right is very inspiring and motivating me to do the same. Thank you for shining the light
I’m in my second year as Resolve user. It’s main selling point to me was it’s color grading software and the fact it was not a subscription service. I feel like I’ve gotten every penny out of what I’ve paid for in resolve and I’ve not even utilized it to it’s full potential.
Second year user of Davinci as well, but also used Filmora at my office job. I always hated using Filmora because I knew that while it was more beginner friendly, it was vastly inferior. My office job has lifetime subs to it as well. I always suggested to the higher ups that we switch to resolve and every video tech be trained on Davinci. No one listened to me. Now I’m getting the last laugh. I’m still trucking along with my solo projects, getting regular updates and it’s all free. I did end up buying a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema and it came with a free lifetime license to Davinci Studio, so I am now using the paid version. But I didn’t really pay for it directly. Great software, high learning curve, but every video compositing feature known to man available in this one software. I would suggest using the Casey Farris tutorials here on RUclips if you’re new and trying to cut your teeth on video compositing with Resolve.
I was one of the lifetime license purchasers during Filmora 9 and kept using the software and getting free updates up till Filmora 11. Was surprised and bamboozled when I booted up Filmora 11 last week and a pop-up saying that I need to pay to upgrade to Filmora 12. Your video here kept my sanity as it shows that I am not the only one who felt tricked by this predatory marketing tactic. Thanks Daniel, I've watched your tutorial videos back in the day when I just bought Filmora 9. Glad you're standing up to them now.
it's not predatory, it's criminal.
Read the fine print I.e the ToS. Stop complaining.
@@DocIlpalazzo Stop breaking the law and thinking a shrinkwrap TOS with no meeting of the minds and no consideration is in any way legally binding.
@@superslash7254 It’s both, not mutually exclusive. Predatory *and* criminal
@@DocIlpalazzo Why are you blindly defending a corporation that takes advantage of its customers?
Thanks for the video, Daniel. I too was a "Lifetime User" of Filmora 9. I do very basic video editing and have no need for the fancy features. I was happy to just keep using Filmora 9 and have no need for the UPDATE or the UPGRADE. After I updated today, the prompt to pay showed up and have now un-installed Filmora after watching your video. I'm now checking out other "GREAT" video editing software.😉 Thank you once again and wishing you all the very best. New subscriber.🥰
Welcome aboard!
I saw this message pop up yesterday when I hopped on Filmora... and wondered how it was going to affect the Lifetime offer. As a 4x Founder I have a deep appreciation for a company staying focused on growing and being profitable and sustainable. However, it's important a company stays in integrity with its users and provide advanced warning and several communications before making a change to terms and conditions. Thank you for being in integrity and sharing this info in this valuable video.
I'm sorry that I'm the one who has to share this message. I'm hoping that Filmora has a change of heart about its lifetime license holders.
@Karl with a K It depends on semantics and interpretation of words plays into contract law. If they are going to distinguish between update and upgrade they are going to have to walk a razor-thin line. The courts would have to decide if this is a violation. However, on my wondershare filmora homepage, the ad says update which I thought they said we were covered in. Regardless it's spineless and I'd be willing to join in a class-action lawsuit if needed. I don't use filmora often, but this is about the principle.
@@nerdjournal totally agree. It's about principle. Something rapidly disappearing today.
@Karl with a K Exactly. And all necessary evidence is there. Again with Daniel being a PAID ambassador for Wondershare/Filmora, his videos clearly spoke to Wondershare's intention of the lifetime licenses! @Daniel Batal, I am not saying you did anything wrong, but, and I am not lawyer, ...in the eyes of the law, you were clearly representing the company and their product. Further, it can be argued that the company was well aware of your comments on the lifetime licenses and they, in no way at the time contradicted your statement(s) so it was clearly their posistion.
I can relate, I bought "AnyDVD" burning DVD's with a "lifetime update"
they claim they were sued out of business, but "sold" their product
to "some one else" that were not bound to the lifetime contract.
Never use paid software when free alternatives (often built into the operating system already)
Imgburn has been around back since at least XP.
Dvdstyler lets you make professional video DVDs, and even has that GNU license!
GNU stuff is always better than paid products, because anyone can make improvements or forks.
Filmora is not a GNU company.
A company that buys them should be required to honor the original license terms. Unfortunately it’s just not ever going to be worth taking them to court over it.
@@hautehussey A company that buys another company IS required to honor the original terms. If they want users to change contract, they
a. would have to offer them a new deal
b. give them compensation when they don't close the deal.
because when you buy a company, you buy it with all it's legal obligations.
Imagine buying a company and then telling the IRS: "I don't have to pay the tax debt that company had with you, I'm a new owner". You know what the IRS will say?
"Well, yes, you are the new owner - of the debt too."
Just pirate everything. That's the solution. The only one that works.
Why would you ever spend money on something that is free?
In short, Wondershare deceived its early adopters to gain momentum, and now that it no longer needs them, it discards them like trash. Now we know why it is a company that shall fail. It has no ethics.
We've been Filmora users since 2019. But now we're checking out Da Vinci ReSolve instantly. Thanks!
And we'll be sticking to your channel to learn about all other Filmora competitors that we can gladly give our money to thanks to your continued guidance, Daniel. Because you've been honest with us all along and, unlike Filmora, we can trust YOU. You've proven your honesty. Keep it up!
Yup.
If you want a great recommendation for a class-action Attourney let me know.
Every company that starts needs people like us, then they outgrow us and become the company that thinks we need them...
Time for a class action lawsuit! My parents have a lifetime subscription to SiriusXM and it was wild when the company tried to renege on it and got absolutely rekt by a class action forcing them to honor it
Edit:
If filmora doesn't change their tune with the public shaming I would recommend you genuinely contact a lawyer. This sounds VERY similar to the XM case and they were legally forced to honor their lifetime subscriptions despite nitpicky terms and conditions due to the false advertising that had their customers reasonably assume they'd have access in perpetuity. So it's worth a shot. It would also probably work well to have you as a contact point due to you having an audience that includes many license holders
Edit 2: jk lol, just noticed the update video, glad they caved to public pressure
Sad thing is, I've seen this happen so many times I see a "lifetime," anything and I think, "maybe it is, and maybe they'll just disavow it."
I agree with the sentiment, but class action is nearly pointless.
Multiple individuals coming against them with lawyers individually - or with a non-class action coalition - is probably a better tactic - one that will force them to pay out to the individuals they defrauded at equal to or above the amount they were defrauded of, rather than the silly gesture of $10.00 per individual that usually results from class action.
@@spinx2273 right make them pay per case. i don't care if they caved to public pressure they already broke their agreement. doesn't mean they'll not do it again in 3 or 4 yrs or watch these users usage and slowly cut them off one by one and just keep bigger voices like youtubers honored
To be honest, those that purchased a lifetime licence got it for nearly peanuts. especially if you have been using it for years prior. So it would be a complete waste of your time and money with a lawsuit. Let nature take its course. In that process, Filmora will sooner or later lose all of its users, and possibly even its own software, or they will go back to honouring the lifetime licences. If it was me, i would just delete Filmora from my PC and find better software.
Software development is expensive 🤷♂️
This sucks, there must have been a better way for them to back out of the lifetime membership. Gaslighting and ghosting users never ends up well. Thanks you pointing all this out.
Yes one of the other commenters said it. They needed to stop filmora and start new software line.
Same EXACT thing happened to us Pro Tools users, when Avid changed over from licenses to ‘plans’. Now I’m paying $90 a month per license to use PT, when I’d bought many lifetime licenses back in 2010 for my commercial recording studio. They slipped in changes to the TOS during the many updates over the years and cherry picked the language that suited them best moving forward. Completely throwing their long time professional users under the bus.
I sincerely Wonder if their attorney provided this script for filmora based on their retainer or if they had to pay an extra litigation prevention fee on top of the standard retainer agreed on when they signed up with that attorney.
*@Greg Curtis* This just reminds me of why I'm grateful to have REAPER. That kind of behavior is just so despicable; the more loyal a customer has been, the worse it feels.
@@ryo-kai8587 I was just thinking how i would have absolutely no idea what i'd do if Reaper went subscription-only. It's one of the last bastions of perpetual-license pro software. I will have to pay for an upgrade starting with version 8 but that's not going to be for a fat while and they disclosed it beforehand, so I'm very happy.
Avid is a terrible company across the board
Do they even have other options? I mean the same thing happened to Adobe 7--9 years go where people stopped using the product becuse the company Adobe would literally bork the program if you did not pay for every little update to the program and no there were no longer people buying year subscriptions or basic. Now Adobe is having some issues financially as nobody other then massive business buying the cooperate for more then 50 or 90 people are buying the subscriptions becuse the deal for big business is the issue, they even track so these companies have to be no more then 1 mile away from the main server the company is using. This means lots of people are not using Adobe or they got these odd versions of Adobe alike programs that are older on CD style but made modern for Windows__ that are floating around if you know where to look on the web where programmers cloned old XP CD versions of Adobie and updated them to work better under an odd name.
Thanks for the info. They have just lost a sale as I found this video looking for Filmora reviews.
I was going to buy Filmora, but this reality check made me decide not to. Good man. I praise your honesty and anger
Its good easy software in general its a good company but this lifetime cancel was uncalled for
If I buy it now I would have to pay for it very month ??
Hey Daniel, this really reminds me of the whole debacle Linus from LinusTechTips was facing with TeamViewer, where he had purchased a lifetime license and TeamViewer would try to "force his hand" to upgrade to a subscription.
Yes exactly, nonono 'filmora 12' is diferant, you bought a lifetime product of 'filmora',,,, totally 2 different things, give us money, even tho you bought flifetime of filmora 6, you gotta obide by filmora 8 terms, which you didnt aggree too but we choose that the licence means this now
It never resorted to the software totally blocking access to itself. It would be a very different situation if he just got spam calls from wondershare
It will soon be impossible to use older teamviewer licenses as they make them incompatible with Windows 11. Eventually they will block old licensed versions from the server.
A message to those at Filmora it is a despicable act to dupe your loyal customers in such a dishonourable way. Picking the pockets of those that helped your company grow and develop is not business but commercial suicide Daniel, I couldn’t have put it better on all levels thanks for sharing that info and continue the fabulous work 👍 Wondershare sold us a Lifetime LIE not License. I certainly don’t trust in the brand now. I think there is definitely a line of litigation for us all to consider here.
I’d call them “early investors” with seed capital. Filmora wouldn’t exist without these early adopters.
It's crazy because the number of people that bought life time licence shouldn't be that many and worst people that bought the life time plan and then would gladly pay more for version shouldn't be high and WORST still people that bought life time and now are discouraging people to interact with the software.
Really feel slimy move to count on people laziness to get a few more buck
Not a Filmora user, but I feel the energy over this. I and many others who use Filmic Pro to shoot with are now in this exact situation.
I have a FilmicPro lifetime license too... or had.
Yep. I got smacked by this, too. Any alternatives you can think of that can send clean HDMI out from the phone camera (and it has to be directly clean HDMI out).
That email was so completely craven. They have no legal leg to stand and are expecting people to be bound by terms and conditions they never agreed to. This is a slam dunk in court.
is it worth the trouble?
@@sarowie This is easy class action territory, the individual claimants would do no work it would be all up to the lawyers.
@@sarowie Yeah all the original users effected will have to do is provide proof they bought a lifetime membership and usually if its a money settlement its split up between all who file and get an approved claim. I've been a user from the Equifax class action lawsuit and got $45 and the GTX 970 3.5GB and .5GB vram lawsuit I forgot the amount for that one and a few others and it usually takes years though for payout and they have deadlines to file a claim but it one gets started I would file a claim and it takes like 15 minutes. The end users essentially just file a quick claim then if they win which it seems like a slam dunk sadly its usually just a cash win I think but maybe it can force them to change it back I'm not sure. A team of attorneys and legal people will do the long stuff. I've done about 5 class actions that directly involved me from products I bought or things that effected me but its usually 1-2 years after the deadline to file if one gets started but if you ever have the time and it effects you its quick and I'd do it. Better than nothing.
@@sarowie suing a scummy company probably is.
A good attorney could hang them out to dry in court for the bait and switch they’re attempting to pull. However, Filmora will most likely end up doing what other companies who have decided to get out from under lifetime licenses have done. Which is to “discontinue” their product and then turn around and rebrand it under a different name and claim it’s an entirely different product. In some cases they might even decide to shut down the original corporation to avoid future litigation and reincorporate under a new name. All perfectly legal. Many software companies have done the same in the past.
That was the nicest/polite way I have seen a RUclipsr absolutely wreck a company and still be very clear and informative 👌 Well done sir! I say they are like wtf do we even say back to that 😂
This has always been the selling point of FL Studio for me for music production. I don't do video editing, but if this happened in my field, I'd feel the same way. I expect a case out of this
Image Line Software, the parent company which develops FL Studio, says right in its own EULA: “Image Line may immediately terminate this EULA without prior notice….”
They always seem to include an escape clause nowadays which gives them wriggle room to suddenly change their policies.
@@Daniel_Batal wouldn't prior website statements count as false/misleading advertising?
@@Daniel_Batal clauses that allow companies to escape liability should all be illegal by default
@@escapetherace1943 Clauses are often put in even if they aren't enforceable. Put any clause you want & then put a "severability clause." I wouldn't want to rely on their weak contract in court. Now, we're all aware of how poor their customer service is too. This is such a bad look for them on so many levels.
@@2namesmusic even worse they hit his early video they sponsored him to do with a false DMCA copyright strike. Rather than honoring the license and growing new customers they've basically decided to burn it all down now.
I'd never give them a cent after hearing this and I'm glad I did, because I heard someone recommend Filmora just a week ago.
This is an awesome straight to the point "Got You" video. I haven't "upgraded" as they word it now. and it looks like so far, I will not update/upgrade to Filmora 12. Most likely I will start looking around for other software as well. I hate it when companies get money greedy and forget about what us the consumer/customers bring to the table. This "conference room" decision is probably going to cost them a lot of money. I sure hope they listen and allow those who have been with them for a while to maintain our lifetime status. Enforce the new rules on the new customers not the ones who have been using the software for many years now.
As newbie I was looking at getting Filmora but with this code of conduct by the Filmora team towards their users this is absolutely not an option anymore.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Use resolve for free/donations and spend the extra money on something nice. You deserve it. Stay safe out there my friend.
Yeah, I just found the software and wanted to buy it. I wouldn't even mind if I could buy a licence for the current version that I could keep for several years. 60usd yearly is just too much to pay if i use it only occasionally.
Ditto!
Shotcut is open source and free
@@vojtablbosti747Please, don't use Filmora. Use something else. They brought this upon themselves.
This has happened with so many of my lifetime licenses with other programs and I hated the song and dance they would do to avoid the topic. I'm glad you stood strong on this topic.
Daniel, I'm a first -time view of your channel, but this was powerful. Thanks for the effort you put into this clean and logical viewpoint. I have a lifetime license as well, and I guess I just learned it's lifetime ended. Moving on.
I, too, got tired of being pushed to pay for yearly upgrades or to sign up for annual subscriptions for other not to be named video editors and switched to Davinci Resolve (The free version) several years back. I loved it so much that I bought their “lifetime” studio license that is good for two computers at a time.
Never looked back.
(Now I’m wondering if Blackmagic will eventually pull something similar to Filmora.)
Doubtful they make their money with hardware
@@brandoncyoung Wait for it. Once the hardware money dries up , they'll start looking for ways to increase their "revenue". It's the same story with every company.
This has been something many companies have been pulling, revoking their lifetime licenses. It's a shame that them breaking their promises is going to inevitably lead to a lawsuit or law change and make almost no companies every sell lifetime licenses anymore.
Didn't Adobe do the same thing
In many cases, the alternative to breaking their word is to go out of business.
@@Tijuanabill well if they can't keep their word, maybe they shouldn't be in business to begin with?
@@wanderinwolf3804 Is keeping their word more important than staying in business? Do their employees agree with you? It sounds me like they screwed up and offered something that wasn't sustainable. Would the OP be happier, if they just went under? I suspect he would not.
@@Tijuanabill in this instance, yes. They deserve to go under. Yes it sucks for their employees, life sucks, get over it. But this company deserves to go out of business at this rate. So to answer your question, is a business keeping it's word more important than it staying in business? Yes, 1000x yes. And the answer will always be yes. If the answer is ever no, then you are giving the companies way too much power to basically do whatever/whenever they want.
I'm a long time DaVinci user, so not affected by this issue personally. However, I'd like to applaud your unwaveringly honest, moral AND respectful approach to this company's decisions. It would have been so easy to just post a baleful rant, given the move they pulled, but you kept it classy. Full marks, and you have a new subscriber.
@thawne7993 Yes, though I’m not sure about the relevance of the question?
Old school guy here who got used to Filmora because of it's ease of use. Would love to use Davinci but it looks way too complicated in comparison. Wonder if I can figure it out.
@@gowithgoldstraw i don’t have a job and I use resolve
It's amazing to me how these companies offer lifetime licenses because they're short on cash. Then, as a thank you to the people who gave them this upfront cash, they just cancel the 'lifetime' subscriptions when they decide they aren't getting enough of their improved income. This is one of the ways companies end up showing their true colors.
Agreed.
This was the exact reason I stopped dealing with Adobe who used to be one of the leading software developers that was pro independent creator in the early days. They weren’t as dastardly as filmora, but the subscription model is not beneficial to indies who aren’t yet making a living from their work, nor the hobbyist. Some people simply want to own their tools outright and then not have to worry about choosing between work and the light bill down the road should things get tight.
That part brother. That’s why I’m glad my tuition paid for the adobe suite. But I’m making the switch to Davinci.
@Tetrazole if it's such a negligible amount of money why don't you Venmo op 10 bucks right now? Surely somebody as financially stable as yourself could afford it
I "had" to upgrade from CS5 to CS6 to get a version of photoshop that would work with the raw files from my D750. I'm glad that I did and that I tracked down Lightroom CS6. I sometimes make money from shooting, but mostly do it for the fun of it, and I'm definitely not going to pay for a subscription to software. Fortunately, Lightroom can convert my D850's NEF files to DNGs that I can then open in Photoshop, but it's kind of convoluted. I'm just going ride out CS6 until it hits a point of uselessness with whatever camera I get next, then no more Adobe products for me.
@@EpicureMammon I still use CS6, on a purchased key that probably wasn't legit, but oh well. Will never upgrade until this PC dies and then? Affinity Photo.
FIlmora?
More like FILMWHORA!
'Cause for money they sold their souls.
I love that the algorithm put this in my feed. These guys are dirty... they know it too. I never wish for someone and their business to not succeed when they have a good product, but when their business "practices" go bad, they no longer deserve the business or the success. Kudos Daniel for letting us all know who to avoid. A+++ on your professional delivery of this message too.
This is the first of your videos I've come across, and I must say - well done! Even though you and many thousands of others are getting screwed over, you remained sensible and extremely articulate as a true professional. Bravo, Daniel. Great callout.
Agreed! My first time on the channel as well, and it definitely left a good impression
I was one of those that got filmora because of you! I've followed you for many yrs now and learned enough from your videos. I can't believe its been a yr you posted this video and I missed it! But I made the same choice not to pay for something I had and was taken away!!! Please keep doing greats video, and I know you will do Great with any video editing software you get your hands on! Thanks for everything!
Hey thanks! I appreciate that. I've been really happy using DaVinci Resolve and teaching other people how to do the same.
I heard somewhere 80% of a business income comes from repeat customers. That is not a way to keep long time users happy. Thank you for doing the right thing and telling us about it. You have shown great integrity and you seem like an awesome dude. Keep up the good work.
except that those life time purchasers do not contribute anything after the first purchase.
@@y0u1 you can't ignore the power of word of mouth though. Through positive word of mouth Filmora got a bunch of business from this channel, now through negative word of mouth I imagine they'll lose potential customers
@@y0u1 They do though. Just having a large user base is a great selling point for software. Many people feel comfortable using what everyone else is. Happy users talk and make videos that promote the software to new buyers.
Conversely they don't take much away. Maybe some support hours but as a software user base grows users often help each other more than getting support from the company behind the software.
Plus as they stopped the lifetime licensing a few versions ago there is a limited number of those licenses in use that will only ever drop in number.
I think they really should just continue to give the software out to those that paid for lifetime licenses. It's not going to ruin them to give out digital products they have an endless supply of to a small portion of the people that want them and had already paid for them.
These lifetime license users are the ones that paid the big bucks at a time the company used the money to grow into what it is today. Filmora depended on them and has now abandoned them.
If they don't like it they can just rebrand and not have an issue. They want the brand that these users paid to make bigger though.
I mean, those usb to sata/ide converters on wish i'll probably buy more.
@@bleepbloopblahp Fax, when I go on Amazon for stuff the first thing I'm looking for is the product with thousands of positive reviews.
You got me into Filmora and your instructional videos are some of the best on the web. For Filmora to betray you like this is outrageous! So, Daniel, where do we go from here? Tell me and I'm on board!
I would check out DaVinci resolve it’s free to use which is pretty nice.
Thank you so much. Our team was going to purchase a lot of licenses, but not now. Unethical to the core and the emails they sent you shameful. I'll be telling people in our community to steer clear if they don't know already.
Shocking, and quite rightly goodbye Filmora. I learnt so much from you on Filmora and you certainly helped me develop my videos to use on my other YT channel, thank you. Looking forward to seeing which video editor you'll use next. I may follow suit.
I’ve been using DaVinci ReSolve
This is exactly what happened to me the other day. I only purchased it because I tried to export and needed to finish a project within an hour. I committed that this was the last $30 I would give them and to find another software. They attempted to automatically add the Filmora Stock subscription and something else to my cart. This was so annoying. Daniel let us know what's next, I appreciate your willingness to speak the truth and to share it with us.
yup, that sounds about right.
I am also a lifetime license holder and I'm glad you made this video. It basically says everything that I wanted to say. I paid for the new upgrade but honestly every update just gets worse and is full of bugs. I'll be switching to something else because I cannot support a shady company like Wondershare.
Give Camtasia a look
So many bugs, it feels like I'm standing in a cornfield ! About a month ago, I deceided to give a try at DaVinci Resolve, even though I knew about it being a "gas factory" for such beginners as I am in editing.
Well... things are going slowly, but they go their way and I'm feeling better and better when using it for my montages. The great thing is the level of precision they managed to achieve in every tool offered, and the (almost endless) possibily to go deep into adjustements. This software is pure madness for anyone who's obsessed with quality... a little dangerous too, for you may find yourself chasing perfection.
The free version allows for HD only exported videos, but their quality is sooooo sharp they easily keep up with Filmora UHD exports.
What is amazing : when F. got my computer to clog, lag, shut down (you name it, I had it all !)... DaVinci lets my machine work in a flow without any trouble. In a whole month, I only had one software crash when trying to otherwise playback UHD videos while it was creating proxys... I easily can forgive that, for it can be blamed on me for asking a bit too much to the processors.
My mind is set : F. no more !
@@gillesmatheronpro heading over to DaVinci
It s about time to take some legal actions ! Give them some headaches."Lifetime licenses covers until the service exist".There is a clear deceit on their part. Good luck on Filmora Legal team.!!!
Unfortunately there are a lot of dissatisfied customers right now.
That would be great if they were not based out of China.
They have an office in British Columbia. I filed a complaint with the Canadian equivalent of the BBB.
it's looking like backstab for loyal user
@@matthewporter1107 I thought it was Singapore?
thanks for the info. i was interested in getting the software but now I have some concerns.
Bitwig pulled the same stunt a few months ago. The community blew up upon realizing the breach of EULA and Bitwig ended up reversing their controversial decision. It's always good for you and everyone to talk about these things openly as we're steadily moving towards a dystopian SaaS world.
Any big company will reverse its actions if enough of its consumers start clapping back
Yup, SaaS is essentially theft, shakedown and extortion. "Perpetual plan" is the same as NOT a lifetime license, haha!
I have always admired you as a content creator, but now I look up to you as a person. You stood your ground on behalf of all of us. You helped Filmora grow, not all the way around as they want to belive. More than ever, I will trust your advice on the alternatives, it will be a pleasure to learn editing from you in a different software. Respect, bro.
I appreciate the kind words.
I'm going live on my channel today at 10:00 am EST with Jay Lippman, my resident DaVinci Resolve expert, to help users learn how to get started with that software. They have a completely free version lots of creators use.
ruclips.net/user/livemYX5SrLtkWk?feature=share
@@Daniel_Batal Check it too mate💪👍
Filmora punishing early adopters absolutely tells non-users like me to steer clear of it when I get into editing in the future.
Time to learn Kden Live for now lol
Davinci Resolve is also great too!
If they are seriously concerned about loss of revenue, then this is the worst way to go ahead about it. Say in some time lifetime users make up a very small proportion of users, the "lost" revenue from them not making regular payments would be extremely minor in scale to all the other users. These legacy users are also the ones that have made Filmora what it is today through their early adoption. Now instead they have completely put a very dark label against their brand that will steer new users away... especially bad in a market that is as crowded as video editing software where competition is abundant
I once had a very very easy editing software with much asset's to use. It was the pre-HD era. Years later i found out it was now only a subscription software. I was shocked and used kdenlive. I do not make high quality videos so I don't want to pay for simple tasks.
Kden is free and awesome
Yep. Will never buy any product by Wondershare.
Better add it to the blacklist in my notes, so I don't forget in the future. What else can you do with the criminals(scammers)?
I also bought a lifetime license recently, I assumed everything would be included. For some reason it kept charging me so I cancelled any subscription I may have accidentally signed up for. Eventually I realized I lost access to paid effects, I didn't expect that.
Yeah, they’ve put some of the effects behind another paywall which they kind of sneak in while signing up.
I don’t like the sales tactics at all
@@Daniel_Batal Same here. I commend you for spreading awareness, it seems like our best shot for now.
It's seriously important to note that you as lifetime users have been given the 8-9 9-10 and 10-11 upgrades/updates free of charge. Whether the company decides to change their use of the word from update to upgrade is not important, what is important is whether the difference between an upgrade to 12 differs in any reasonable or substantial way than any previous upgrade until version 11.
Filmora needs to prove that their new software is a separate product from its previous itterations (and their relative differences.
Had they called 12 something like 'Filmora Neo' or something like that, it would imply that 'Filmora Neo' is not a continuation of the same product (which applies to reason). They didn't call it that - and hence a continuation of the same numbering system which afforded you upgrades between versions should also afford you an upgrade to 12.
This means the only leg they have to stand on is whether they can prove that the upgrade to Filmora 12 differs substantially from previous whole number upgrades. My money says it is not.
Do you think Windows 10 is just a couple updates more than Windows 7?
@@srpacific If you had a lifetime license for "Windows" then yes
@@srpacific comparing oranges to apples
@teknokracy actually I'd probably agree they are new products tbh but seeing as Microsoft offered Licence holders free updates from XP to 10 then 11 it's probably an argument against your point overall?
Bottom line; Microsoft are more customer-centric than these guys. Which is crazy!
@@ErrrorWayz if you have a lifetime license to a products versions and it was sold as such if they release a new version you should be entitled under the contract.
Microsoft gave license holders an upgrade because it meets their strategic goals. It has nothing to do with obligation. It has nothing to do with whether it is a new product.
Got it in one Daniel. In Australia, it's called misleading and deceptive conduct. On top of that, their response to my query (at least) is patronising: "We're sorry you misunderstood the terms when you signed up for your perpetual/lifetime licence". What they SHOULD do is honour the lifetime licence for people who bought it under that agreement, and perpetual for anyone who signed up from Filmora X. That said, they upgraded my 10 to 11 for free, and from 9 to 10 for free.
Agreed.
@@Daniel_Batal LOL, it's clear what they are trying to do. Wondershare just tried to bribe me again, and simply used the same cut and paste reply as the previous one.
@@roar666 I usually tell scummy companies like this that you’ll be taking the matter to NCAT or VCAT, QCAT etc and ask them who their onshore representative will be to serve documents to. They’ll need to refund your initial purchase price.
I know that proprietary software is currently easier to use for video production, but if people start using open source software and donating to the projects they use, you will never lose access to the software you rely on.
The problem is that FOSS video editing software just isn't really there, yet. It's _useable,_ but it's not on the same level as proprietary software options. FOSS video editors are workable for most individual users and small outfits, but they lack the support and integration that make a _big_ difference in larger production environments. The other big problem is that an inherent downside of _any_ FOSS project is a general lack of support. You can have the world's most consistently-updated wikis, the noob-friendliest forums, and simple instructions for every possible thing you want to do (which, BTW, isn't true for _any_ open source project, but let's pretend it is), but when you have _serious_ money on the line, you just can't beat having the ability to pick up a phone and _call_ someone who knows exactly how to deal with your problem and may even be able to send a technician out to figure out your problem.
I agree, though, on the premise that FOSS project need more support, and there is a lot of stuff out there that needs more support and awareness, and that most people who are just starting out could probably do everything they need to do with a suite of FOSS software that they've put together. But the feasibility of professional creative outlets switching over completely is such that even if some studios _do_ go through with it, it will still probably be an exception and not the rule. GIMP has made _tremendous_ leaps in improving the UI to not be a nightmare, and it has helped them penetrate into the market a bit more. But the problem is that if something goes wrong then you have nobody to call except for something like Stack Exchange where you will have the benefit of having someone yell "RTFM" at you, get mad at you for not using the terminal, and then get mad at you when you tell them that, no, transitioning your whole company's IT infrastructure over to Linux so you _can_ have the terminal is not a reasonable solution to your problem.
@@Kevin-jb2pv Agreed, I would also like to elaborate that there is little incentive for FOSS to constantly improve its UI and their users' productivity. I often see responses that are workarounds as proof "you can do what you need with software X" when that workaround isn't practical for someone working to meet a deadline.
I really do appreciate the contribution made by FOSS developers, and I am glad tools like GIMP and Shotcut exist, but there isn't enough reason for them to be competitive even in the long term.
@@Kevin-jb2pv re-read my comment.
DaVinci Resolve has amazing functionality for free Editing software, and no strings attached
@@paulidevoss7249 the point is to support open source projects so they'll have the resources to optimize their software and it will benefit everyone. Something that is just no cost can be taken away, and even if that weren't an issue I would rather support open source developers over a goddamned corporation. My last two laptops came from Purism and my new Librem 5 was finally delivered a week ago. I didn't like having to wait 3 years to get my phone and could have made the short-sighted decision to only care about saving money, but without work done by Purism the relatively cheap Pinephone and Pinephone Pro that I was using while waiting for the L5 would have been far more unpleasant to use and have a far more limited range of OSs to run. I am hoping that people will eventually get sick of letting tech companies use them as a product to be sold to advertisers, and while I wait for that to happen I am happy to spend a little extra money to help build an ecosystem that will be mature enough to serve as a viable alternative for the average person.
The world doesn't have to suck as badly as it presently does, but for any improvement to happen people will need to make conscious decisions that won't always be easy. I was making the comment in that spirit, which is why I am not interested in a free but proprietary option.
It's always the small print in the EULA's (End User Lisense Agreements) where big companies flex their power with things like this. Crazy!
Yeap, likely there was something about "agreeing to future licence changes" or, if it wasn't, they "solved" it by changing wording form "updates" to "upgrades".
This is my first time ever watching one of your videos. And I must say, you handled this in a much nicer, classier way than I would have! This company is screwing over the most loyal set of customers they have. To pull this, is unacceptable. And I hope somebody decides to sue them. Companies who pull this need to be checked. And checked hard!
@@Unpopularity from what i know most statutes of limitations start running from when one reasonable discovers the wrong. in other words, them burying something in the terms and conditions of version 9 does not cause the statute to run out, as you weren't on notice of the wrong until now.
@@Unpopularity unfortunately while the morality of the move is in question, it is perfectly legal. to answer your question, if someone still had version 8, they can continue to have lifetime updates should they choose to accept them. but as soon as they actually take the update they need to agree to forfeit the updates so yes, they did “sneak attack” their users but there is no grounds for a suit at all.
@@takingafatdump where did you learn about civil law? Lol. It most certainly is illegal. It is called bait and switch. And many State’s Attorney Generals have sued companies on behalf of consumers for this type of thing. Not to mention The State Office of Consumer Protection.
You cannot guarantee someone free lifetime updates, then bury in those updates wording that takes away those rights for those who purchased under the previous terms. They must be “Grandfathered” in. They can update the terms moving forward for future customers who sign up. But they cannot null and void the terms of previous lifetime agreements. Period…
Case after case after case has been brought and won in instances like this. Including against cell phone and utility companies. And actually, they can even be fined and fined daily, with heavy penalties if found guilty in a civil court of law. And if a case is brought by the Division of Consumer Protection and they are found in breech of contract with the consumer, a court case doesn’t even need to be brought in order to fine them, in some cases, up to $10K a day for violation of consumer law.
FYI, I spent well over 20 years working in Civil Law in the state of Utah…
TBH, you sound like somebody who works for them. Who is trying to confuse customers into not knowing their rights.
All I can tell anyone reading this troll “taking a fat dump”s post, is: DON’T BELIEVE A WORD HE IS SAYING. He doesn’t know what the hell he is talking about. Plain and simple. I have handled a case to my State Supreme Court in Civil Court. This guy is obviously a hack, who either works for this company. Or is simply trying to troll everyone here. Either way, I can see why he needs to “take a fat dump”, because he is full of 💩. Straight up. And I am calling you on it. Because by your last couple posts alone, it is absolutely clear you don’t know ANYTHING about how Consumer Civil Law works. As in NOTHING…
There was a very similar case with another example. Ma Bell. Back in the day. Had offered a monthly phone service plan forever. At a specific price. They upgraded their networks? Upgraded their service. And they tried to cancel all those lifetime agreements. Guess what? They were sued. By my state. And had to eventually honor the deal. How do I know? Because my mom was one of the customers who was part of the settlement… This is a case where if a class action was filed, they would lose. Same as other software companies have. Including Microsoft.
The only reason they may get away with it, is simply because nobody wants to spend the resources to sue. Not because they have legal ground to do what they did. I would suggest whoever lives in their state of operation contact the State’s Attorney General. And also The Division of Consumer Protection. Start there first. By filing FREE complaints. And see if the offices decide to get involved. Or get the local news stations involved. A lot of times, the heat from these things is enough to get them to reverse course on what they did. Also the BBB fie a complaint. This won’t do anything besides make a record of their poor business practices.
I love it when I randomly find a video that doesnt apply to me but after watching the whole thing through, Im left feeling warm and fuzzy and well educated. I feel the same.. it reminds me of the Dr Who episode.. 'Words' - Great video, thank you
This isn't a topic that I'd normally be interested in, but RUclips tossed it into my recommendations, and I do use other software with a similar lifetime purchase, although all of those companies still honor that. Got hooked by the video style and all the low jabs he took at them for being shady. Guess his video editing tips really work, if I ever need to create videos to support my music, I'll definitely be running through the whole channel...
I don't think I would have ever been introduced to you without this video, so thanks to Filmora for dropping the ball so hard that they did an Adobe Photoshop and basically screwed them over like that with their money grab.
Since the editing skills you teach aren't bound to Filmora, I'll happily subscribe to you and see how I can translate a lot of that into my current hobbies (CSS-based web design with animation, and game cutscenes)!
so basically filmora becoming as scummy as adobe
davinci resolve is more better option despite its flaws of non studio version
alternatively open source software rarely to never backstab their users
I left Filmora today because of this. I thought I had a lifetime subscription and only had to pay once, I find out today they took money out of my bank and it is annual subscription. Im gone. I have subbed to your channel and look forward to more of your content thank you.
I used Filmora back in the day and loved it. After a few years, and after doing a lot of research I found DaVinci Resolve fit my needs (and it was free). It's a shame when companies start doing the "legalese" battle where it's "We didn't say THAT, we said THIS slightly different yet legally distinct thing that our lawyers told us to say".
Same. Filmora actually got worse too, it's buggier, and there's more in app microtransactions.
@@SchizophrenicGamer huh, now I know how it feels when people find a random youtuber they used to watch on something entirely unrelated to the thing they watched them for
@@SchizophrenicGamer the mtx makes it all the more puzzling. it would've made them more money to keep the old license holders on board using the app, it's not like it costs them money that people use the app
Man, I hope you file a lawsuit against them and turn it into a class action suit. Please update us on results. Im no lawyer, but you have a strong case.
No
You summed up everything I've felt about this debacle, Daniel, thanks. I too purchased the lifetime license way back when and feel sucker punched by Wondershare. The way in which they've forced this approach also makes me question how viable is their business model and it's long-term outlook. It's one thing to stop offering lifetime licenses with the promise of future functionality, it's something completely different change the game for all those that helped them commercially in the early days when those same people could have been supporting the development of an open-source alternative. I've always enjoyed your videos and have found them highly practical. I guess it's time to find out about creating a new workflow with Resolve. Looking forward to your future videos.
While a "lifetime promise" of anything feels like a pipe dream we all believe in collectively, what's more important is that at this point, a "lifetime" anything from a company feels like a good litmus test:
If a company can offer a lifetime guarantee of access to a product or service, or lifetime repair/replacement of their goods, then it shows they have confidence in their product AND they are secure in their future
If a company suddenly reneges on these lifetime promises, then things are probably going bad and they have to salvage what revenue streams they have, or severely cut back on their commitments
Either way, it shows you how to treat your relationship with that company going forward
As someone who uses Davinci Resolve and quite happily paid for a Studio license after ~1 year of basic use, you can't go wrong with them. I'm sorry FIlmora screwed you
Thanks for confirming. I wondered why I got an email asking to confirm card details after having paid for the lifetime licence. Absolutely awful.
Hi, I really loved this video, it basically shows the disregard these companies have for 'early adopters' of their products. I agree with you that as a content creator, you can create great videos on any product you wish to invest in, so these guys should look at this and really watch just be kind to their clients. Great video and very clear, well done.
Thank you for this video! I am a 'Lifetime' license holder and I would have never unpacked this on my own. I just subscribed to your channel and I am looking forward to receiving more information like this. You are telling truths and standing your ground and I appreciate that.
Ditto 👆
Hi Daniel, your videos came up in my suggestions and despite not using Filmora (hello from the FCPX camp!) I am now invested in this saga. I commend your professional approach and responses to everything that is going on as well as your dedication to bringing the issues to light, and I do hope that ultimately team Filmora come to the discussion table instead of the battlefront. 😊
Same
I was considering this just today. Thank you for uploading this. I will not be purchasing. Knowing they are out to “trick” the user. The ones who keep them in business. The stubbornness is shown to clearly in the 2 emails. If they will do this to one of their ambassadors, what will they do to a “regular user? Wow.
I'm SO glad you made a video like this. It brings light to companies that are overtaken by greed, late-realizing that they didn't take part in the Subscription model rip-off, later sticking it to their customers.
I use Hitfilm Pro and got my liscence through a Humble Indie Bundle, and after Hitfilm Pro 16 I stopped getting updates for free. Which is okay, I understand the deal here but at least they are not doing any weird shenanigans, I can use the entire software like before, I just need to pay if I want to upgrade. I think if at least filmora let its lifetime users use the software without watermarks etc it would at least be okay. But putting back watermarks on someone who bought such a licence....wow! It just shows how greedy and stupid some humans are.
@@lajeandom very good point! I agree.
This man deserves million subscribers.
He's the one who taught me filmora in a more advance and fun way than i could've imagined.
Ditto on that.. I stopped using Filmora after they cold turkey killed off the Pro version, of which I was a lifetime holder. In the end, the skill and knowledge, and fun projects I learned from RUclipsrs like Daniel was worth the whole filmora fiasco.. ha ha
You are correct, he does deserve more subscribers. I like his integrity, so I'm subscribing!
Thanks for sharing this with us! Highly appreciated, Daniel. Yes, I bought Filmora bc of your great tutorials. And this is what counts for me. Let’s see where we are going to, either with or without Filmora. Keep up the good work, Daniel!
Right on, Peter. Forward!
Hey, I know this was a year ago but I bought the lifetime license about two years ago when it was still available. It has only now tried to get me to pay 30 or so dollars to even use the software without a watermark and to use effects. We've spent well over a hundred dollars on filmora and wondering if you know anything we can do to either use filmora or get our money back.
They decided to honor lifetime licenses issued before the release of FilmoraX.
@@Daniel_Batal Thanks!
I really wish LegalEagle would make a video on this sneaky changing of user agreements... Glad you're spreading the word about their conduct!
As an early adopter, I purchased Filmora version 7.1.0 in June of 2016. The product was undergoing frequent updates and had a number of bugs when I purchased the LIFETIME LICENSE, but I appreciated its relative ease of use. In the product comparison and pricing chart, for the Lifetime License, like what you've shown in your video, Filmora clearly promised free updates for life. Their subsequent changing of pricing models and terms should apply to purchases of those respective versions. Filmora has gone back on its word with its early adopters and that is not acceptable.
There are still a few very early lifetime license users that have access to Filmora 12. Try checking yourself.
@@Daniel_Batal thanks. By the way, I really appreciated your video and respect your transparency throughout. I've watched a couple of other videos that you linked to and have subscribed to your channel and look forward to learning more. You are a great communicator and engaging at the same time -- no easy feat. Thank you!
I’m a lifetime license owner too
@@Daniel_Batal I had it. I updated when it was first announced, and the license was fine. I woke up this morning after watching this video and they changed it such that I must also upgrade now. I email support and they gave me essentially the same BS they gave you! So maybe influencers but now normal people.
I’ve never watched a single video from you but this was so well worded and you perfectly captured all the info and explained what was going on that I couldn’t help but sub. Frick Filmora and other companies for backstabbing the people who made them who they are. (cough cough Nintendo)