Vuelta Espana's Most Controversial Winner: The Story of Chris Horner
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- Chris Horner's 2013 Vuelta a Espana win is one of the most exciting but also most controversial Grand Tours wins in history. With the 2023 Vuelta a Espana starting soon, we looked at the news, headlines & highlights of Chris Horner's career up until the famous Vuelta a Espana. The Final Kilometers of the Angliru, the intricate communications inside Radioshack and the dramatic aftermath of Chris Horner refusing to speak with Cycling News and missing doping tests.
00:00-00:28 Intro
00:29-02:53 Early Life
02:53-03:37 Trouble at Astana
03:38-05:16 Before the Vuelta 2013
05:17-07:43 Early Vuelta
07:44-09:05 Later Vuelta
09:06-12:46 Angliru Stage 20
12:47-14:12 Post-Race Controversy
14:13-14:26 Life after Cycling
14:27-15:29 CyclingNews Phone Call
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#Vuelta #horner #VueltaaEspana
Hamburgers and hotdogs to everyone who scrolls back up and likes the video...
You can find Chris Horner's RUclips channel here: www.youtube.com/@ChrisHornerCycling
I'm not going to give this video a like. It's just an attempt to discredit yet another rider that's not been found guilty. I believe Chris is doing the right thing by not even talking about it. What's he going to say? Yeah, I cheated? lol
@@kenhalal375that was ultra well written. I’m not going to watch this video of discreditation. It is that period of cycling and Mano Mano. They fought the same.
Mechanical doping. A hidden motor in the bike.
😂😂😂
I can see Horner ducking out before getting tested and calling the testers Knuckleheads as he drove past them.
👊🦋
😂😂😂😂 actually laughing
@@OneIssueVoter Yeah, well you can keep rationalizing all you want that a guy, who intentionally skipped a required doping test and won the Vuelta 1 month short of his 42nd birthday is legit. Same type of mindset also claimed Lance Dopestrong was clean for over a decade when the evidence was quite clear he was doping at a level far above anyone else. 🙂
See you in Douches knuckleheads.
@@rcg9573 exactly. I don’t take anything away from the guys, but yeah they were doping.
I met Chris while riding on the San Diego County coast road a couple of times. He was always friendly and made some helpful suggestions to help my riding stamina. I was just riding for my health, not with any idea of competing. I'd given that up 40 years before. Listening to him was like listening to a well-trained engineer. He kept on message, explained his reasons and was completely without ego, considering he was a world-class rider.
What’s that got to do with the fact that his 2013 Vuelta win his highly suspect , as was his conduct after the race
Absolutely nothing
It is irrelevant as to how nice he is . He’s dodging serious questions that require addressing
Everyone is forgetting something: even doped to the gills, winning a Grand Tour at age 41 is freaking amazing.
Please don't ruin the narrative. ;-)
Chapeau to Chris Horner - never gave up and was rewarded accordingly - his. Butterfly Effect is probably the best cycling commentary that there is - but his hands always look huge!!! Go Chris go🎉🎉🎉
The final doper! Gonna be a great documentary one day 🙈
@@lordoflaziness7775 meanwhile even the slowest finisher in Paris Roubaix this year was faster than Cancellara's winning time some years back. "The last doper ?" As unfortunate as it is, winners will still be pushing the boundaries of the law.
@@S9999Frankpretty sure the trues and wheels would have a fair bit to do with faster times on the cobbles . More gears too
Cycling teams don’t take it easy now a days they start racing from the off (alas , how is that sustainable, it can’t be , your point)
Seriously though, you are claiming that the person who came last was faster than Cancellera time ? There always tends to a be a gap between the riders .
Which editions of the races or are you just talking crap ?
MVDP was over 19 minutes but under 20 minutes faster than Cancellera’s 2013 win. (The win where he actually bet several pretty good stage race - one day type sprinters, in a sprint )
This year, The last person to not OTL (a shit load OTL this year ) was 25 minutes behind MDVP . So, you are wrong .
However, yes, his 2010 50 km solo , YIKES !!! The last person in this years edition was miles faster than.
I’d still be weary about times , if you ignore how the race was ridden and the conditions on the day
Regardless if he did anything or not, 2013 was the best vuelta I have seen since that edition. He is innocent until proven otherwise!
I think it more fitting that all 100% of riders are guilty of doping until proven innocent.
@aewfan7066 That kind of comment could only come from an American. You should be proud on what he achieved. Americans don't have a lot to celebrate at the moment.
@@jacklang5034 congrats on transferring your racism to nationality.
Obviously, when you attack too early on a good climb, you will pay the price. Chris Horner took advantage of that mistake. Well done 👏 Chris Horner.
It was a knocklehead move from Nibali 😂
He is just another cheater who wasn't caught
It helps if you lace your burgers with EPO.
Doping or not. I think his win has to do more with what he explained happened on the angrilu. Something along the lines of motorbikes in the way and obstacles that caused Nibali to have to stop or slow multiple times. The fog kept them out of view so he used the obstacles to his advantage. It’s not on film cause the motorbike filming was one that crashed. Something to that effect
Chris Horner is my favourite doped rider of all time. The fact he managed to escape relatively untainted surely has something to do with his personality. He seems like a nice guy. In retrospect, it's obvious he was toying with everyone regarding doping, and I'm impressed that he never seemed concerned that he would get popped. He appeared equally as confident as Armstrong, but he didn't have the same power and backing. That takes more than one ball.
😂😂 when you gather the 2 balls you can wish for anything. Even a Vuetla win.
2013 Vuelta winner!!!
Cold-blooded man, but funny as hell.
When just about everyone is doped up, it comes down to dedication, basic skills and of course a really smart doping system.
I was so into that race that year. His victory is among my favorite cycling moment as a fan. The camera motorbike/crowd chaos was so crazy.
Back then I could see all three grand tours on TV. UCI should wake up to this: if they sell rights to smaller and web only channels, sure those channels paid more and won the bid, but you have a lot less people watching it! Less visibility, less sponsors, less media coverage, etc.
Different world because there are so many illegal streams.
Clickbait title with cherry picking elements of the story. I watch the all video and the finale was poor character from the people who wrote it. Chris Horner didnt escape the usada control like you are suggesting, the usada clear chris , why dont mention that? Content searching for drama to get clicks
As the cycling saying goes...it's not always the strongest rider that wins...it's the smartest...and in this case it's obvious, to me at least, that Chris was the smartest. Period. Chapeau !!!
I’m glad Chris is gaining popularity and subscribers!
I watched this race - it was a nail biter until the end. Bravo.
Chris showed the world you can still be INSANE fit in your 40s and beyond.
Was he on the hot sauce like ALL other sporting champs like we see in swimming, running, basketball etc? Of course. It is PROFESSIONAL sport and you are PAID TO PERFORM.
He is still giving to cycling with his commentary channel.
He lives and breathes pro cycling and good for the sport.
ALL YOUR CHAMPIONS TOOK/TAKE THE JUMBO JUICE! IYKYK.
Rodriguez finished 3rd in the Tour de France in 2013
I thought the testing agency themselves admitted later that it was their fault or miscommunication regarding the ducking out of the testing. Also leader jersey wearers also have to go past doping checks after every stage, no? Or was that not the case yet?
That's what happened. I remember they publicly admitted it was their mistake. Wouldn't help the video's narrative though so not included.
If Greg Lemond doesn't question it then I don't. I really enjoyed the retelling of that vuelta.
Greg is a massive hater! Especially if ur name is lance. Lol.
@@alaefarmestatesllcand rightfully so in case of Lance
@@tp43793 meh. Level playing field it was. Anyone who says other wise I’d lying to themselves and others. Same goes for anyone who was a pro around that time and says they were clean. Lmao
@@alaefarmestatesllcI implore you to read up on the effects of EPO on different bodies. It's NOT level playing field. UCI's 50 % hematocrit rule is the dealbreaker here.
@@needfoolthings you know damn well what I mean. You have hyper responders in everything. Doesn’t change the fact that they were all on something to give an edge/boost performance/recovery. If u think it was just EPO, lol at u.
If you think that Horner was the most controversial - then I would like to know what is left for Cobo.
cobo is no longer a winner and doesn't fit the criteria. The winner of the 2011 Vuelta is now Chris Froome
@@Crisson24 Froome - the guy who was officially allowed to dope due to Bilharziose and asthma
@@Crisson24Of course. But so is Armstrong. Armstorng certainly was a controversial winner of Tour de France. And Cobo was a controversial winner for quite a long time too (a couple of years)- and I would say a lot more controversial than Horner. It depends on the definition. Actually, if you google the most controversial winner of TdF, or the most scandalous win, you still get Armstrong as a result. Limiting the results to people who have not been disquilified would narrow the field to much, in my opinion. But I guess we can have it both ways, having a different view on what is and what is not controversial.
.
It’s not a fair comment you make about hamburgers and hot dogs. B c it omits a key fact
During vuelta the teams chef, one guy at that time, jumbo now has 8, was only making food w o fat, thinking fat put on weight. Chris was, rightly, fat starved. The team diet was too strict. So after a few days of this, Horner had his wife make a trip to McDonald’s for a daily Big Mac. It worked. He needed fat, we all do
A chef can’t deprive racers during a gt of fat
Is this the same guy who has provided spot on analysis for us on pro cycling glory?
Sought after motivational speaker in the making.
Horner's Vuelta win was crazy entertaining, and his channel is a lot of fun to watch. I would honestly have more respect for him if he came clean, but I understand why he doesn't want to discuss that stuff.
👊🦋
5:42. Anyone that watched every stage of the 2013 Vuelta will remember that this is how Chris won the Vuelta. In the early stages, he was perceived by the Heads of State as a non-threat to GC. So he gained valuable time. Also keep in mind that 2013 was just a couple of years after the UCI's introduction of its biological passport, which -- from the period of about 2010 to about 2016 or so -- ended all crazy attacks on mountain finishes from 5, 6, 7 kms out, which you see happening in recent years again. Yes, the cleanest racing we saw the last 30 years was 2010 to about 2016, when the passport had most riders not taking chances. I can't prove it, but I don't think Horner was doped for this Vuelta and, more important, i don't think his competitors on GC were doped -- because of the biological passport.
LOL
@@rcg9573 Tell me why you think Horner doped. Because he dropped Nibali on the Angliru??? Nibali cannot match a pure climber like Horner on any day on those 15%+ gradients. Nibali took almost 90 seconds on Horner in the stage 11 ITT, but it was too late: Horner already had a ~ 45-second lead on Nibali, meaning that, after the ITT, he was down 46 seconds to Nibali going into the tough mountain stages. In each of stages 18, 19 and 20, Horner clawed back time and eventually took the red jersey by the end of stage 19 by three seconds. Had Nibali not ignored Horner during the first 10 stages of that Vuelta, Nibali would would not have gifted Horner the Vuelta.
If you think ANYONE is winning big sporting events is natty then you are naive my friend.@@zoso73
@@zoso73because he literally released what his blood looked like during the Vuelta and it was consistent with someone doing and he avoid doping control. Are you absolutely blind. This was all in the video lmao
@@CryWolfFilms No, you are merely repeating what was alleged about his biological passport -- which he voluntarily produced because he believes he has nothing to hide. You have not analyzed the data for us nor have you opined why you believe it is indicative of doping. Try again, sailor.
He played the game so I watched him win the Tour of California and I also watched Ricorado Ricco and Simoni race and I also watched Levi Leiphimer win so who was clean other than Cookie Monster 😊
Theres an interview with Horner that went up on youtube where he's laying in bed and talking to some journalist/podcaster. Interview was fascinating and one of the interesting sidebars was the interviewer was steeped in cyling training methods and kept asking Chris about his training. Did you do intervals Chris? His reply: "I rode in the mountains around San Diego, why would I need intervals?" Didnt you want to need a recovery time after you won the Vuelta? Horners reply, while looking at him like thats the dumbest question he ever heard , "I had epic fitness, why the hell would I need to recover?"
Link?
You need recovery because it's human physiology. It's incredibly well studied. The only way to not need recovery is to be 'enhanced'.
Tell that to Wout Van Aert (kicking butt in the tour of Limeys) or Mathew Van der Poul. "Hey guys, lets not do cyclocross this winter. The overwhelming consensus of fred coaches is you need recovery time" . Lets just stick to pickleball from October to Feb.
And I can see him missing a control on purpose. He learned from the best ever .
Horner is brilliant tactically, and everyone knows it. His intellect and experience in race situations proved to be the winning formula for the Vuelta title. Is this video commentary suggesting that doping made Chris somehow smarter than most pros in peloton on top of making him faster on the bike?Enjoy the Victory Chris!
Whoever thinks that Horner won because he doped must claim that either he did not dope before and doping made him suddenly much faster or that his doping improved that year - he somehow found a new method, better than the old epo, cortisol, blood replacing days. You could also claim that while, during that year, he continued doping like he was (supposedly) before, the rest of the field was not - which slowed it down, so he comparativelly turned out to be faster than the other cyclists. Or you could go for some sort of combination of the above given possibilities.
In my opinion. His win was just about as controversial as Sastre's in the Tour. A weak field. The route of the race suited to pure climbers and a lot of luck (and he was also a seriously underestimated rider by the field and by the public). Plus he did have a great form. That does mean neither that he was not doping, nor that he was. But if you believe he won because of doping, you really have to somehow connect him being the oldest with the idea of doping much better than most of the commentaries - and if you pay attention the video itself does not really explain his win by doping. The click bait is, for the most part, in the title of the youtube video only. To sum up, even if he was doping it would be quite hard to explain his win by something else than by a conjunction of ideal circumstances.
But why now is Chris Horner Vuelta's 'most controversial' winner? Why above all others who doped?
His analysis btw are always spot on and very entertaining.
Perhaps because no one else was 41..
without that title, nobody would have clicked and watched it. :D
Because it's not clear that he doped.
His Cadence will tell the tale
High cadence = doper
@@danielwatt9415Dr. Ferrari came up with high Cadence. There was a reason you didn’t see it before the EPO era and you don’t see it now. High cadence is useful for blood dopers because it's easier on the muscles in the legs, the problem with it for non dopers is that it requires more O2. LA has admitted this and Tyler has it in his book. I don’t know enough about Froome to comment
@@danielwatt9415
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3918546/
Horner is a legend. Period. Say what you like.
Legendary doper cheat. 🙂
In my book
Horner's win was fair as everyone else was doing what he was doing.
I agree, I just wish he would add his voice to the anti-doping team. I believe Lance was the greatest GC rider of all time, but I wish I had never shaken his hand or congratulated him.
Spoken like a true doper apologist even though it is utter rubbish and not true. 🙂
@@rcg9573ha, who was clean?
@@rcg9573they all doped and they all still dope. You're beyond naive.
Horner is my guy. At his age to win a tour is a feel good story. Did he doped who knows, don't care. It was a beautiful stage and to win overall was unbelievable.
Spoken like a true doper apologist. :-)
@rcg9573 not an apologist, a realist. This was cycling of the 90's and early 2000s. Are we going to wipe all results during this period of cycling. No, we've hopefully moved on. Those who got caught got punished, and those who did not congrats all my respect. This includes Horner.
@@maxab7e63s5everyone doped then and it never stopped. It's blatantly obvious
I'm pretty sure Horner has no moral regrets and believes training, talent and tactics are more important than meds. He had probably been doping all through his career just like all his fellow team mates. But was there anything special about his final grand tour? He would say good tactics, some luck and no bad luck in the preparation, but in a long career he hadn't shown much before.
He's got a lot of inside information, for instance on Lance and on the conflicts at Astana. It would be could if some day the truth will come out on what happened in cycling in the 2000s and 2010s.
We already know the truth about 2000s and 2010: 99.9% of them were doping, just as they all do today.
Am I skeptical that he was clean? Sure I am - how can you be a fan of this sport and not be skeptical? Same with anyone who wins a grand tour - but especially since he was 42. But without concrete evidence (like a positive test result or an admission from him or a teammate), I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is - one of the more epic grand tour victories of all time. If you can't get past the constant allegations of doping and just enjoy the sport for what it is, I really don't think this is the sport for you. And this attack on Horner is obviously motivated more by people who are upset at him for his beef with GCN than people who are concerned with the integrity of the sport.
Why be skeptical? Just know and enjoy
I thought dodging a test was an automatic suspension/violation?
That was a great vuelta a España... it was amazing to watch! So I Couldn't care less of what people think about Horner! He won end of story
I’m with you on this subject. This was more the norm then not for 20 some years. Let it go. They are still the best for the time and nothing is perfect about sport, even today. Just not caught yet.
Spoken like a faithful and good doper apologist. 🙂
@@rcg9573 be that as it may!
@@rcg9573I have news for you: all of your favorite cyclists are doping. Yup, EVERY.
SINGLE. ONE. OF. THEM.
If you were a teammate of Armstrong and Contador, it was tough to be clean and get a spot on the team. But most folks from that era came through pretty good as Armstrong was the focus.
And you know this based on your time on the team…thanks Dunning-Kruger!
Mostly all his teammates were doping before getting on the team.
I don't care how he did it, he stopped the Snake of Messina winning which is good enough for me.
Shark of Messina, not Snake. the only one that's called after a snake is Riccardo Ricco "the Cobra"
What ever reason. 42 years old is kinda impressive
You did not call Cadel "Cattle Evans!" Haha
I remrmber chris winning well , it was really exciting and he was similar age to me 😅. I can still see the smoke and the screaming fans as chris climbs up that steep hill. I like his youtube channel he gives great astute analysis .
And your coverage of this tour is very good , i gorgit ge was racibg against Vincinzo , my favourite rider
On pro peleton who is clean?
And who will say he isn't clean?
These are the reality.
Win is a win unless proven with doping.
I've always been a big racing fan but I remember talking to a seriously nerdy racing fan and amateur competitor in a pub in Liverpool, he was telling me that his wattage was not possible without being doped. I already didn't believe what my eyes were telling me but that put the icing on the cake. Does it affect how I think of Chris no. I've given up trying to make sense of dopers or not.
I was shocked watching Horner going up the angliru in a big gear when watching live
Massive dope will allow that. 🙂
@@rcg9573along with abuse of an inhaler
Pro cyclists with everything to win
It’s a good careful job this video
I learned new facts
I by default, think they're all doping, so to I don't care, it makes for great racing. The 2013 Vuelta is one of the best Grand tours I've seen.
Controversial? Does anyone NOT know he was doping? Shit, Horner as much as admitted it on his own channel. He didn't say "I was doping" but he did say something to the effect that "anyone who could keep pace in that group was doping". It was not only a group he road in, but dropped back to the team car, and then back to the group.
The vast majority of them were doping. A very few were out ruining the lives of other people in the process.
where is the proof , facts, evidence? were any charges ever brought against him?
You hid your Danish accent quite well until the “phone” segment (and you pronounced “success” with the wrong vowel just before it). I’m envious :)
8 years of living outside the country will do it!
Since they were all doped this only served to impress me about Horner
Chris is a great personality and pro cycling is/was essentially fully corrupt with the collusion of the UCI. Treat this like pro wrestling and settle in the chesterfield. Everyone probably doped, or should have, and Chris always shies away from this. And boy, I'd far rather have him commenting on races than LA and his fully monetized bro podcasts and socialpath personality
Looking at the list of “Champions” in this video, they are all confirmed or suspected of something. The only one who does not seem to get attacked is the Shark. He won mountain top finishes and the overall in the tour without appearing to get out of breath. Go figure. If the are all on a Wiggo “level playing fields”🙄, then the better more tactical man won. Whatever way the event was a great spectacle.
He always defended Lance Armstrong. David Walsh thinks this win was dodgy too.
Something is fishy in this vid... If he missed the test (which would be weird, as the first three is automatic testing...), that IS a dope violation and would be sanctioned... And somewhat i can understand that right after a GT he answered the questions enough times, maybe they should have asked him a week later. I have no idea if he doped or not, but beating the great Nibali, it is a big deal. And all those little tricks he did, nice!
Chris horner is impressive in tactics and assessment. Its not surprising he won the vuelta.
You dont win a grand tour against doped riders unless youre doped too otherwise whats the point of doping?
C L I C K B A I T -- But I always enjoy watching Chris win that Vuelta!!!🦋
Horner was never tested positive. Won fair and square. Love his youtube Chanel.
That’s insane power especially for a tiny guy like Horner!
"Nowhere to be found" and "losing 9 seconds" dont fit on the same sentence bro
I like Horner but the deep association with Armstrong and the rest of the US dopers, raises some questions about that win. Still, it's ancient, let sleeping dogs lie at this point.
Chris "knucklehead" Horner😄
🦋👊
Chris is one of the best.
dopers
I am a fan of horner. Love his race analyses
Do I think Horner was doping? Yes. Do I think all of the top competitors from the time are dopers? Yes. Even more respect for Horner learning the lack of respect his team has for him. Don’t always like his viewpoint, but I can’t argue with his ability and his will
Couple of "clouds" indeed, the redacted name (I remember people going to great lengths to match the length with the font, font size, etc...) and the last bizarre conversations with Benson. Do we know if they ever talked again after that ?
On the "redacted" name, why wasn't Horner ever questioned by USADA or was he and it wasn't made public ?
In his channel he has been "coy" about "preparation" that riders do (and that he likely did) but you gotta play the game I suppose
Horner was a doper. Sure he's a friendly guy, but so was Indurain. Friendly people are cheaters too.
Doped or not doped that is the question ! we will never know for sure.... BUT SUPPOSE he was doped he had to ride and fight for every meter, and because he was riding verry smart he won the vuelta !
Afther all the antidopingteam could have taken samples anny time afther every stage of that vuelta , So they had chanses enough to take samples of mr Horner , so why didnt they do it afther the race ??? So for me horner is clean
You got all big moments as i remember it. That TTT was arguably biggest hurdle in vuelta for him was huge. Fabian beat tony in itt later in same vuelta he pulled that team. Not chris strength . That radioshack had much infighting with kloden and levi. Who horner beat in i thought his best performance prior beating levi on mt baldy in tour of California. Nibali was peak form 2013-14 just awesome stage ten was when I finally felt horner could compete for red.
Competitive sports are tricky but nibali, sastre, cadel guys that were always good never had massive physique changes in off season were riders i loved. Like guys from lemond to nairo through tadej years where l'avenir winners all won grand tours or gt stages. Sports late peakers in explosive athletic sport are tricjy or anytime it doesn't look like human powered machine mainly cadence as lemond pointed out recently. "Spinners " crazy cadence is myth from l.a. too c.f. seeing cadence on climbs against a slope higher than itt is bizarre just to eye test shouldn't pass any other test anyone whos climbed knows body doesn't process lactate like that. Yes higher cadence shares workload more with aerobic system and is optimal for stage racing with cumulative fatigue. Why vo2 has always been so coveted as are red blood cells its also interesting to here greg talk about this years tour itt and how your vo2 doesn't somehow improve at 26 as press reported day after that performance. Against your bodyweight should it decrease yes and when finding you fitness that's definition of fithess but uf youve completed grand tour youve seen that peak already it doesn't change with age onky against your bodyweight as a workload. Or how bilharzia was used to explain tour winners improvements aerobically despite going beck and beck with cobo (tested positive) on brutal vueita climbs when out of contract and before discovering disease?...
its always bern same playbook most vested squads with insiders , connections and pr machines targeting grand tours with riders who get defensive, vague, or agressive shen asked. They give sane canned answers weve heard for years repeated by leadership and fans.
Guys who are in moment listening and answering questions authentically, like cadel, vinzenzo, guys who raced all over calendar, multiple continents caring about monument prestige and palmares more than tour every year that over years havd had more integrity just imo. Sport has checkered past but tour as designed by desgrange was only supposed to have one finisher obviously winner gladiator style. Why he looked fir mountains after insave rules and outrageously long stages didn't do trick. Was crazy idea.
All that said completely disagree with you on tadej he reninds mevif greg he has been riding a bike forever talking young child. From l'avenir to first Vuelta through thus year races same way won tour of California before vuekta podium all while winning multiple stages yet having hunan moments at same time. Similar to sagan and gilbert cant miss talent jumps out at you when you see it like young Messi. Tadej has never come in one season with noticeable physical transformation or dacence, power spike chalked up to incredible off season in mid twenties. Hes just getting to mid twenties now he adpats to surfaces, technical courses, and disciplines from climbing, reduced bunch sprint , or itt in stage race with same explosive punch whether one day or one stage. Hes out literally giving back to people ge has empathy he trains wuth his partner instead of isolated on magic myth of mt teide. Thise clunbs are real but idea that altitude difference in those short camps make difference people portray is silly this isnt altitude adjustments like in karakoram or himilayas orepping for 8000 meter peak over two months. They climb to 10 feet and stay in hotel. The chambers recreating altitude would make difference but also to bio passport everyone would be getting flagged. If theres competitive advantages in this sport and anytime pay is basedvon performance temptation is there i think its with mild motors that allow for increased performance while not affecting biology that would trigger passport issues. Greg lemond recently said same in refreshing interview that was almost too direct for lots of people to digest who didn't see danger ,extremes, gluttony of 90s early 2000s or every tour until with alcohol, opiates, amphetamines, eventually anabolics and epo, cera etc. I've heard you cover most all of it. Highly recommend that interview though. Cant see greg as uci president would be way too uncomfortable for teams theirs never been a champion and skeptic in that position. Him in 91' as 3 time defending tour champ all if a sudden getting crushed in time trials and simply stating "i cant ride a bike like that" was prophetic statement.
Good luck needs to be checks and balances and always room for lots of transparency. ✌️
Go write a book, this is the comments section.
Greg LeMond and Miles Davis. Two all time greats !!
@@tboss8157 awesome 🤙 🥂 !!! Coltrane, monk, art Tatum, Philly Jo Jones. Like lemond, coppi, merckx, bartali, hinault ☺️. Both groups great cadence tons of talent !
@@blueshun supposed to just be this 🥳 not sure what happened my fault. Seriously it's such nuanced sport or sporting situation. Especially this topic. I just have big issues with altitude camps mountaineers know train high but rest low. Resting high is bad for you doesn't increase rbcs it's efforts at altitude that make difference especially at lower altitudes. Teide hotel is myth but those climbs to 11,000 are cool but high altitude climbers are going up camps on 8000 meter peaks for 2months and everytime they climb they go down to rest where more o2 to heal body. Staying in that hotel is like silly oval chainrings we were told we're massive advantage it actually hurts recovery. It's an excuse to explain an unexpected performance. If simply living at altitude helped everyone in Ecuador, Colombia, Colorado would be untouchable. Sherpas in Nepal are climbers and fit also climbing at massive altitude always. That's big difference than one week or two in Sierra or Tenerife for cycling. People know this but don't want to lose access or be ostracized.
I don't believe he was clean but no proving otherwise so it stands. I like him as a presenter but watching him fly up the Angliru that day, it wasn't normal.
These knuckleheads were outsmarted by a man who learned the lesson of Lance Armstrong.
Anybody who thinks critically about this will say that it's by far more likely that he was doped than that he won fair and square, but that doesn't mean anything is proven, yeah the data from his ride is very questionable and he missed a test at a crucial point, but nothing is proven 100% and we will most likely never know.
Few things are ever proven 100%. The reality is he skipped a required test and won the Vuelta 1 month before his 42nd birthday. It doesn't take much to recognize he was clearly cheating bigtime in the Vuelta.
@@rcg9573 that is why I said that it is by far more likely that he doped lmao
Quite a lot of sizzle, with no steak. Hope you hit your view target...
And guess what riders are still doing today. Its become so scientific. Keep the values in range and you're good
Snickers - Coca-Cola - Hamburger ... best food ... 🙂
So it's taken you guys 10 years to put this together? (Not so) Great work!
Chris Horner had to wait even longer to win a tour... That's the point. 41 years old and suddenly the best ?
@@justbin8312 It's the Vuelta. Even though hard, it wasn't even close to bringing any team's A list.
...2nd hardest climb, l'Angliru?
what's the first?
De muur van geraardsbergen :)
@@matthias8140 too short, hardest long climbs are angliru and zoncolan
@@enricofortunato9187 right, Zoncolan I can understand
@@alex9046 zoncolan is crazy, 12% average steep and after the 3rd km there are not recoverying points like some false flat in the agliru climb. There is also a steeper climb that is called "Passo della forcella da Ovaro" that is pure cruelty
As others suggest, Zoncolan could be a good guess. Another one that comes to mind would be Bola Del Mundo, which was raced in the 2010 and 2012 Vueltas, and never seen again
Everyone except the Americans know Horner was doped, that is why he disappeared at the end of the Vuelta. The only reason nothing happened to him, was that the UCI did not want another scandal involving an American rider after the damage Armstrong had done to the sport. Do you honestly think a nobody like Horner could win a Grand tour unless he was doped.
He sported is ponytail earlier in his career.
I could careless what you all say look who lost their TDF wins Alberto C. He should have been tested also after that great stage.
Assegnate questa vuelta a Vincenzo nibali,totalmente derubato di quella vittoria come per la Liegi bastogne Liegi 2012
For me the most suspicious thing and that later they did not renew the contract and never won anything again
Because he was 42 by then..Are you serious?..I wouldn't have hired him either.
Cancellara was doped to the gills too
Watch his hands in his videos. Growth Hormone.
I remember being glued to the TV watchin that vuelta but with the benefit of hindsight, I just don't think it was physically possible to be that good, at the age of 42 :-/
Clearly doping. 🤦♂️ So obvious
Vuelta's most controversial winner was the Buffalo.
Stop with the accusation everyone did PED at that time that’s it he beat everyone that was on PED
Smugness personified.
Horner is my favorite
He beat nibali, Italian
The Italian racers of this time period:
Pettaci sprinter caught doping
Basso caught, operation puerto epo
Selle caught post giro 2008 epo
R ricco epo tour 2008, caught again too
Ricco teammate caught, that climber, tour 2008
De Luca caught twice, epo
Bugno client of Ferrari goggle says, bugno denied to me
Nibali not caught.
In approx 2009 an Italian insider, a coach, said publicly he had evidence that nibali saw Ferrari. Nibali sued for defamation in Italian courts. The case settled out of court: the suit was dropped, nibali received aporox 8000 euros for atty fees. So the evidence not that strong or the claimant was weak person
Was nibali on dope. History tells us strong probability he was.
If Horner beat a doping nibali w o drugs by Horner that wd be an x hard thing to pull off. X hard.
But Mom, everyone else did it too! Sorry Lance, the rules are the rules even if 95% of the riders agree to cheat...it's still cheating. Too bad Horner didn't stick around for the test (and the UCI didn't sanction him for skipping-out) so we'll never know how clean he might have been. Probably why he and BigTex have to do streaming comments rather than be on TV? F--k 'em both!
Superciliousness
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 You gonna cry?
I remember thinking how fishy the whole thing was including that he was 42 and much too old for the win to feel "realistic"
i don't get what's so controversial about that win.
it is very clear that in 2013, many riders still "prepared" this way - that's how horner himself calls it.
just let it rest. to me, armstrong is a 7x tdf winner. he's just the scapegoat of the whole system.
Yeah, I like how he says “prepared” and everyone knows what he’s really saying.
Notice how the cycling press, which is largely European has chosen American riders to crucify a lot more than other riders....
@@johnnycab8986 It seems like the press will crucify anyone who is really successful, if they get the chance to. It’s just good for business because it’s controversial. I don’t think the press cares about nationality. They just want to cover big stories.
tbh there'svclose to zero evidence that Nibali was doping, on the other hand there's plenty on Horner. I'm not saying Nibali was surely clean, but there's good reason to be more suspicious of Horner.
he is a grand tour winner in that era, that's all the evidence you need. @@samuele8361
Anyone in the know knows top level pros all take PEDs
How did you get to be in-the-know?
What's the point of this video and what's so controversial about his win? Was he named or found guilty of doping? If not, why should anyone care? Why should Chis come clean even if he was doping? Even though the evidence for Armstrong was convincing if I would have been in his shoes I would have kept my mouth shut, took my sleeping meds and just enjoyed my retirement from the sport. In other words, if you are going cheat and lie at least take it to the grave and let everyone continue to speculate about it all. I think that would have been way more interesting.
Difference between Armstrong and Horner was the immense amount of public pressure for Armstrong to come clean. By the end, he had no other choice but to fess up. Horner's public status was nothing compared to Armstrong. Also, Horner isn't a total douchebag. I agree that Horner has no need to open his mouth at this point. Why would he? Nothing good would come of that.
I’ve met Horner, great guy. I honestly couldn’t care less if he doped..Everyone was and is still doing it. He never threw anyone under the bus, unlike Lance on his way down.
He's a massive cheat and defends other doping cheaters.
Yet Froome can win everything with sky /ineos has a dodgy sample at the Vuelta and everyone thinks he's some how this poster boy for clean sport 😂😂😂. Seems to be of late that if you don't have ties to the UK your results are questionable.
What a legend. Released his data too..
🤣🤣🤣 This is a fun video which asks reasonable questions. The funny bit is implying that CH was doping and not casting the same shadows on Nibali or Valverde or every other rider. He did dope.But how? With what? It was a great race. I think it's foolish to dope but I can't see professional cyclists doing what they do any other way. It seems that only certain personalities are allowed to get away with it. His profile may increase with his excellent YT channel.