I remember you talking about the Flexible Shape Patterns back around 03 but I just didn't understand the power of them until watching you use them. It is a revolution in metal shaping IMO. If I had just understood them I could have saved myself so much time
Hi Wray, took a two day class, with you back in 2010 back in your garage. Because of circumstance, it was just me which was great! Thx for the refresher course on this series on the FSP and forming. Your insight of the distinction between Area and Arrangement and the timing to address and use each throughout the forming process is genius. YOUR FSP WORKS! The proof is in the pudding! None of the other so called experts have put together the sytematic, step-by-step provable demonstration videos you have. I’ve restored many Porsches over the years and used your lessons to fabricate many patch panels and parts. Thx for sharing this valuable information and sharing your passion with us that appreciate it.
Totally hooked on this series Wray, you are a metal magician and i cannot wait to get my own wheel and attempt some shaping! Thanks for the great videos and brilliant tuition.
Hi Wray. Hey, I just wanted you to know that I've really enjoyed your videos! This long format may not work for a lot of people, but I've really liked it personally. Over the weekend, I had your tutorials playing non-stop in my garage on a big TV while I tried to build my first wireform model. It worked out great watching and listening to you along the way. At first, I didn't understand what you meant in the videos when you described the terms "in arrangement" and "out of arrangement"....but now that I've watched several hours of your videos it makes a lot of sense and I am tempted to try making a flexible pattern template from my new wireform model (custom curved front footwell) so that can use all of this hard work to create a mirror image part for the drivers side. Got a lot of great tips from you on the English Wheel too.... probably the best one was to stay off the outside edges (verboten!) unless you are trying to relax an overdeveloped panel. I was really struggling to understand why I kept losing the shape in the middle of my panels....!!!!! Keep on making videos and I'll keep watching. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the world.
I like it when You hold up the panel, to the camera, so We can see the changes in the curves, under the light, with the eighth inch pin striping tape. I can see what's getting done.
Mr Schelin, Termendous program. Very generous to show some of your skills & talent. Very remarkable person. Generally watch on tv but can't leave comments. Creating lots of interest to attending your classes. Just have to decide a direction. Thank you very much.
thank You Wray. Its been using flexible shape pattern for while, I didn't know is called that. I have used strips of paper glued together on to panel with wallpaper glue. and cruelly punched marks trough it to new panel that I hammered Italian style to shape. I am self thought and been fabricating all sorts but You have open my mind to avoid faults in future. the best videos about sheet metal shaping with most important explanation of physics behind it. one thing I can not understand, how someone can fight flexible shape pattern, it is as you said opposite of solid buck and gives you that flexibility that You don't have with solid frames. Krzysztof from eternia works
Wray, you are a master! Thank you for sharing with us your flexible shape pattern method. I tried it once and don't want anything else! Greetings from Poland.
I really like this approach. As a sculptor, I would love to have know this back in the late 60s. I had some large aluminum Sculptures that would have been much easier. Regards, Solomon
Progress is happening, Wray. Fine tuning takes time, indeed. Of course explaining every step is really taking up the time. The copy buck seems to have some of benefits of wire forming and station bucks combined. Being able to get behind to see fitment is nice compared to a tight wooden buck. You say it's heavy but what decent buck isn't heavy? That's another reason why the flexible shape patterns are so impressive. They are so portable. That thumb looks like major ouch happened. As usual.. thanks for the class. I appreciate it! 9C.. here we come!
I picked up a very sharp ax head out of the deruster solution and it bit me. Just an annoying slight leak, fixed with a bandaid. You picked up on the glue residue from the bandaid.
@@Joe.Doucette For derusting I was told by one of my students about a product about 10 years ago called Rust 9-11 I use it all the time on rusty tools that I purchase. Call Howard at Rust 9-11 607 425 2882 the company is in NC. Excellent product, I tell all of my students about it.
Maybe it is just because I can think in 3-dimensional calculus of a fixed malleable surface area, but flexible shape patterns make a lot of mathematical sense.
once having seen the flexi shape pattern method of working , it makes total sense , its hard at the start to grasp how important it is to have the area of surface before worrying about the shape of it all , your louvre press looks suitably manly , I like over engineered too. if your going to build one , build it once then use it , no point in having to go back and keep fixing things. hard to think im about fourteen hours into watching this build so far , but , Its so educational , and ive been at the tin bashing game for a long time , Ive laso worked as a weld inspector , a pipeline welder , and some power station and some submarine work too. So i dont impress easily , lol how many hours would you have in this front end , without the video side , ie chargeable hours , and how on earth do you price such a job ?? either at the start or the end , . The side video distractions like your fab bucks and other cars help break up hour long videos too though . many thanks for sharing.
Hi Wray, just looking at you telling us about your Cordless shears, and after you cut your panel you say to run it through the wheel to take the edge burr off, everytime i cut a panel I always deburr all the edges and also round off all the corners that way saves your hands from getting cut with and sharp edges, as there is nothing worse than blood all over your panel especially steel , so again thanks for all your advice, and I am still loving your E type front end videos, I have watched 3 today ?? Regards Eddie Walsh
I recently purchsed the Bosch 12V cordless shear and did a review of it on my channel. The biggest issue I ran into was the tendency of the shear to stretch the edge of the metal and cause a ripple effect. It may not be a problem for your work since everything is curved and will be worked in the english wheel. However for cutting parts for my airplane I want the edges to be as flat at possible. The shear will still have its uses for roughing metal down to size, but I can not use for cutting on an edge. If you have any suggestions on techniques to reduce edge ripple, I would love to hear them. Also you might want to consider selling the Bosch shears. I could not find a distributor for them in the US. Mine shipped from Korea. There were also options to order from Europe.
Might 3M have an adhesive that would work like that on Post-Its, to use under your tapes to make the Flexible Shape Patterns? That would reduce the dust problem. They might be responsive to an inquiry.
I'm looking at building a complete body and was going to use the wire form buck method. I have a 75 Corvette driver compartment bird cage and doors inners. My plan is to tack weld the wire form to the structure, build the panels and weld it all together removing the wire form. Is there a way to use the flexible patterns with a wire form?
With wireforms I have my students make what I call proto flexible shape patterns. Using my super magnets I have them hold the paper down and carefully slice the paper to it fits the wireform. I have them tape up the cut paper joints with high quality masking tape at a right angle to the cuts on both the inside and outside. You then have a proto flexible shape pattern which will get you quickly to fitting the panel on the wireform. I use a .010" feeler gauge to feel inside the panel for the tight points. Bring the tight points up till it fits perfectly.
Wray I noticed you use the wide English wheel most of the time. If you had one wheel to use how wide would you make it? I have an 8 inch by 4 inch chunk of steel I was going to make an upper wheel with, but I was thinking of cutting it down to 3 inches wide thinking that might be more versatile, what do you think? Also, does the diameter of the lower wheel make a difference? I know it should be as wide as the upper wheel.
Hi Wray, I've watched and enjoyed all of these videos but sometimes I want to yell at you, please get on with it! If the point you are trying to make is that it is a slow process, you are succeeding admirably!
Hand shaping sheet metal is a slow process. If you are explaining all of the steps while you are doing it is even slower. When a lot of cars were hand made on very complicated sections they would anneal the aluminum to dead soft and hammer form the panel on a solid wood buck. I am using Chinese sourced 3003 which is extremely stiff stuff. As I have mentioned I could anneal it and shape it faster but I like the bulletproof result. I have only annealed when I absolutely had to. If you are doing the work the process is very rewarding time spent, to take a flat lifeless section of sheet metal and turn it into any shape that you desire is a very cool skill set.
Hi Wray, I have watched all of these videos and really enjoy them. I have a question about the valley area that is in the recent video and how shaping is done around it. First I noticed that we always use the mallets on the back of the panel. And we use the English wheel on the top. You said to "stay away from the valleys". Never work in the valley. I was wondering. Why don't we use the mallet in the valley on the top side of the panel? Then use the wheel in the valley area holding the panel upside down in the wheel. Thanks, Pete
Hi Pedro, if you add area in the valley you are finished it will kill the panel. The reverse curve valley is always tricky. You can stretch the surfaces around it or shrink the valley. Shrinking the valley can be accomplished by trapping it and doing it cold or do it with a torch. I have a video showing how to cold shrink a valley.
@@proshaper Hi Wray, I think I am having a hard time explaining this. Let me try again. We would be using the mallet in the valley area on the top side of the panel. Not the bottom. Did you understand that part? We would then wheel the under side of the panel in the valley area. Not the top. So we are doing the reverse of the normal way to shape a panel. Of course, I know so little about all of this it probably doesn't matter. Thanks.
You have to take it back into the arrangement when you want to measure an area on a buck? That is a significant advantage of the flexible shape pattern?
Yes, If you are shrinking and stretching a panel and is totally out of arrangement the flexible shape pattern still reads your progress and tells you the next step. When work with a buck, you have to have the panel in arrangement for it to fit on the buck and make your assessment of what to do next.
@@proshaper one other question: how well can an English wheel be used for repairing a panel that was involved in a crash? What would you with a crashed panel?
@@therealspixycat All of the paint has to be removed on both sides. The dents will roll out easy, there might be some stretching present after smoothing. You might have to shrink with a torch and shrinking disc depending on how bad the hit was.
Wray question for you,.... (no criticism intended ) how are you going to get that return smooth enough to be painted once it's ''arranged'' and welded to the scoop . But more to the point , why are you shaping that panel or indeed all of your shaping with the use of the FSP to guide you where the shape is needed, when the panel in question looks nothing like the panel where the FSP came off ? This might be a stupid question to ask , or perhaps I am wrong in the theory I use when shaping returns and all other shapes.
First I set the area value with the flexible shape pattern. The flexible shape pattern doesn't care what the arrangement value is when doing this unlike a buck. When you offer a panel up to a buck it has to be in it's correct arrangement value for the buck to work- that is not the case for a flexible shape pattern. When developing the correct area value you allow the panel to be in the most user friendly arrangement so you can use low crown anvils and achieve a perfect surface. Once the area value is set ( the area value has to be set before the arrangement value can be set properly) then you can set the arrangement value. It took me a year to figure out and trust the system I had created. It never lets me down.
Ok, If the FSP system works for you that is fine, I personally do not see any advantages by using that method. You only shaping relatively small panels, what would happen if you where to make a big quarter panel like a 57 Chev or a Nova for instance, or a Chevelle or Cadillac or Mustang etc ,all in one piece? How would you control or arrange the shape then ? ....... Unfortunately you have not answer my earlier question either ...(how are you going to get those panels smooth ready for painting once welded to the rest of the bonnet?) Are you going to wheel those panels again ? Hand finished them? What is your next procedure? Been a metalshaper my self, and worked in the industry for many many years, I am just asking .
@@Handbuilt1 Hi Peter, I am not superman so If a panel is very large I break it into smaller sections and weld them together. I fully understand that you are an accomplished shaper, you have learned from the best and added your own techniques as well. That is what every master does. The fact that masters take different approaches to achieve the same goals means little.
Thanks for taking the time to explain a bit more about the origins of your flexible shape pattern system to me. Much appreciated!
Loving this series. So many small gems of info. Beginning to understand the method.
I remember you talking about the Flexible Shape Patterns back around 03 but I just didn't understand the power of them until watching you use them. It is a revolution in metal shaping IMO. If I had just understood them I could have saved myself so much time
Because they are not traditional they have a lot of neigh-sayers. Some professional shapers say a flexible shape pattern can't possibly work.
Hi Wray, took a two day class, with you back in 2010 back in your garage. Because of circumstance, it was just me which was great!
Thx for the refresher course on this series on the FSP and forming. Your insight of the distinction between Area and Arrangement and the timing to address and use each throughout the forming process is genius.
YOUR FSP WORKS! The proof is in the pudding! None of the other so called experts have put together the sytematic, step-by-step provable demonstration videos you have.
I’ve restored many Porsches over the years and used your lessons to fabricate many patch panels and parts.
Thx for sharing this valuable information and sharing your passion with us that appreciate it.
Totally hooked on this series Wray, you are a metal magician and i cannot wait to get my own wheel and attempt some shaping! Thanks for the great videos and brilliant tuition.
Great training in fabrication Wray, thx so much for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Wray. Hey, I just wanted you to know that I've really enjoyed your videos! This long format may not work for a lot of people, but I've really liked it personally. Over the weekend, I had your tutorials playing non-stop in my garage on a big TV while I tried to build my first wireform model. It worked out great watching and listening to you along the way. At first, I didn't understand what you meant in the videos when you described the terms "in arrangement" and "out of arrangement"....but now that I've watched several hours of your videos it makes a lot of sense and I am tempted to try making a flexible pattern template from my new wireform model (custom curved front footwell) so that can use all of this hard work to create a mirror image part for the drivers side. Got a lot of great tips from you on the English Wheel too.... probably the best one was to stay off the outside edges (verboten!) unless you are trying to relax an overdeveloped panel. I was really struggling to understand why I kept losing the shape in the middle of my panels....!!!!! Keep on making videos and I'll keep watching. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the world.
Thanks Greg! Please spread the word about my channel. ruclips.net/user/proshaper
I like it when You hold up the panel, to the camera, so We can see the changes in the curves, under the light, with the eighth inch pin striping tape. I can see what's getting done.
Mr Schelin,
Termendous program. Very generous to show some of your skills & talent. Very remarkable person. Generally watch on tv but can't leave comments. Creating lots of interest to attending your classes. Just have to decide a direction. Thank you very much.
Looking foreward to next episode in the development of the Jag bonnet. Thanks Wray!
thank You Wray. Its been using flexible shape pattern for while, I didn't know is called that. I have used strips of paper glued together on to panel with wallpaper glue. and cruelly punched marks trough it to new panel that I hammered Italian style to shape. I am self thought and been fabricating all sorts but You have open my mind to avoid faults in future. the best videos about sheet metal shaping with most important explanation of physics behind it.
one thing I can not understand, how someone can fight flexible shape pattern, it is as you said opposite of solid buck and gives you that flexibility that You don't have with solid frames.
Krzysztof from eternia works
Oh dear, the size of that English wheel makes mine feel a little inadequate!
Amazing stuff, thank you.
Thanks wray for yo in depth explanations and detailed practical guide to do metal shaping in a systematic way I really admire u
Thanks!
Wray, you are a master!
Thank you for sharing with us your flexible shape pattern method.
I tried it once and don't want anything else!
Greetings from Poland.
Thanks! Jakub
I really like this approach. As a sculptor, I would love to have know this back in the late 60s. I had some large aluminum Sculptures that would have been much easier. Regards, Solomon
We are not worthy!!! But we will earn our worth applying your training! Thank you thank you thank you!
Progress is happening, Wray. Fine tuning takes time, indeed. Of course explaining every step is really taking up the time.
The copy buck seems to have some of benefits of wire forming and station bucks combined. Being able to get behind to see fitment is nice compared to a tight wooden buck. You say it's heavy but what decent buck isn't heavy? That's another reason why the flexible shape patterns are so impressive. They are so portable.
That thumb looks like major ouch happened.
As usual.. thanks for the class. I appreciate it!
9C.. here we come!
I picked up a very sharp ax head out of the deruster solution and it bit me. Just an annoying slight leak, fixed with a bandaid. You picked up on the glue residue from the bandaid.
@@proshaper Ah .. I see. "An annoying leak". Funny guy. It looked like a black nail. What do you use for derusting?
@@Joe.Doucette For derusting I was told by one of my students about a product about 10 years ago called Rust 9-11
I use it all the time on rusty tools that I purchase. Call Howard at Rust 9-11
607 425 2882 the company is in NC. Excellent product, I tell all of my students about it.
@@proshaper Thanks, Wray.
loving the videos. planning on taking some classes with you soon. thanks for doing these videos.
Thanks...I love your job
Maybe it is just because I can think in 3-dimensional calculus of a fixed malleable surface area, but flexible shape patterns make a lot of mathematical sense.
once having seen the flexi shape pattern method of working , it makes total sense , its hard at the start to grasp how important it is to have the area of surface before worrying about the shape of it all ,
your louvre press looks suitably manly , I like over engineered too.
if your going to build one , build it once then use it , no point in having to go back and keep fixing things.
hard to think im about fourteen hours into watching this build so far , but , Its so educational , and ive been at the tin bashing game for a long time , Ive laso worked as a weld inspector , a pipeline welder , and some power station and some submarine work too. So i dont impress easily , lol
how many hours would you have in this front end , without the video side , ie chargeable hours , and how on earth do you price such a job ?? either at the start or the end , .
The side video distractions like your fab bucks and other cars help break up hour long videos too though . many thanks for sharing.
Hi Wray, just looking at you telling us about your Cordless shears, and after you cut your panel you say to run it through the wheel to take the edge burr off, everytime i cut a panel I always deburr all the edges and also round off all the corners that way saves your hands from getting cut with and sharp edges, as there is nothing worse than blood all over your panel especially steel , so again thanks for all your advice, and I am still loving your E type front end videos, I have watched 3 today ?? Regards Eddie Walsh
Hey Wray why do you use the small round piece of leather under the piece, Isn't the sand bag material made out of suede?
I recently purchsed the Bosch 12V cordless shear and did a review of it on my channel. The biggest issue I ran into was the tendency of the shear to stretch the edge of the metal and cause a ripple effect. It may not be a problem for your work since everything is curved and will be worked in the english wheel. However for cutting parts for my airplane I want the edges to be as flat at possible. The shear will still have its uses for roughing metal down to size, but I can not use for cutting on an edge. If you have any suggestions on techniques to reduce edge ripple, I would love to hear them.
Also you might want to consider selling the Bosch shears. I could not find a distributor for them in the US. Mine shipped from Korea. There were also options to order from Europe.
I just watched your review video of the Bosch cordless shears and I'll try to answer some of your concerns and questions in a upcoming video.
Might 3M have an adhesive that would work like that on Post-Its, to use under your tapes to make the Flexible Shape Patterns? That would reduce the dust problem. They might be responsive to an inquiry.
The dust which is plaster kills the sticky from the low stick tape. Once you remove the flexible shape pattern you don't want any stickiness.
I'm looking at building a complete body and was going to use the wire form buck method. I have a 75 Corvette driver compartment bird cage and doors inners. My plan is to tack weld the wire form to the structure, build the panels and weld it all together removing the wire form. Is there a way to use the flexible patterns with a wire form?
With wireforms I have my students make what I call proto flexible shape patterns. Using my super magnets I have them hold the paper down and carefully slice the paper to it fits the wireform. I have them tape up the cut paper joints with high quality masking tape at a right angle to the cuts on both the inside and outside. You then have a proto flexible shape pattern which will get you quickly to fitting the panel on the wireform. I use a .010" feeler gauge to feel inside the panel for the tight points. Bring the tight points up till it fits perfectly.
Wray I noticed you use the wide English wheel most of the time. If you had one wheel to use how wide would you make it? I have an 8 inch by 4 inch chunk of steel I was going to make an upper wheel with, but I was thinking of cutting it down to 3 inches wide thinking that might be more versatile, what do you think? Also, does the diameter of the lower wheel make a difference? I know it should be as wide as the upper wheel.
Hi Wray, I've watched and enjoyed all of these videos but sometimes I want to yell at you, please get on with it!
If the point you are trying to make is that it is a slow process, you are succeeding admirably!
Hand shaping sheet metal is a slow process. If you are explaining all of the steps while you are doing it is even slower. When a lot of cars were hand made on very complicated sections they would anneal the aluminum to dead soft and hammer form the panel on a solid wood buck. I am using Chinese sourced 3003 which is extremely stiff stuff. As I have mentioned I could anneal it and shape it faster but I like the bulletproof result. I have only annealed when I absolutely had to. If you are doing the work the process is very rewarding time spent, to take a flat lifeless section of sheet metal and turn it into any shape that you desire is a very cool skill set.
@@proshaper Thanks for your reply and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Hi Wray, I have watched all of these videos and really enjoy them. I have a question about the valley area that is in the recent video and how shaping is done around it. First I noticed that we always use the mallets on the back of the panel. And we use the English wheel on the top. You said to "stay away from the valleys". Never work in the valley. I was wondering. Why don't we use the mallet in the valley on the top side of the panel? Then use the wheel in the valley area holding the panel upside down in the wheel. Thanks, Pete
Hi Pedro, if you add area in the valley you are finished it will kill the panel. The reverse curve valley is always tricky. You can stretch the surfaces around it or shrink the valley. Shrinking the valley can be accomplished by trapping it and doing it cold or do it with a torch. I have a video showing how to cold shrink a valley.
@@proshaper Hi Wray, I think I am having a hard time explaining this. Let me try again. We would be using the mallet in the valley area on the top side of the panel. Not the bottom. Did you understand that part? We would then wheel the under side of the panel in the valley area. Not the top. So we are doing the reverse of the normal way to shape a panel. Of course, I know so little about all of this it probably doesn't matter. Thanks.
Looks like a Messerschmitt Bf-108
How did you make right jag fenders using the copy buck?
I also have a right copy buck .
You have to take it back into the arrangement when you want to measure an area on a buck? That is a significant advantage of the flexible shape pattern?
Yes, If you are shrinking and stretching a panel and is totally out of arrangement the flexible shape pattern still reads your progress and tells you the next step. When work with a buck, you have to have the panel in arrangement for it to fit on the buck and make your assessment of what to do next.
@@proshaper and it will almost automatically get into arrangement when you work out each area. Quite briljant process if you think of it
@@proshaper one other question: how well can an English wheel be used for repairing a panel that was involved in a crash? What would you with a crashed panel?
@@therealspixycat All of the paint has to be removed on both sides. The dents will roll out easy, there might be some stretching present after smoothing. You might have to shrink with a torch and shrinking disc depending on how bad the hit was.
@@proshaper or use a slapper that you made in one of your video's? May be interesting enough to make a video on this subject?
Wray question for you,.... (no criticism intended ) how are you going to get that return smooth enough to be painted once it's ''arranged'' and welded to the scoop . But more to the point , why are you shaping that panel or indeed all of your shaping with the use of the FSP to guide you where the shape is needed, when the panel in question looks nothing like the panel where the FSP came off ? This might be a stupid question to ask , or perhaps I am wrong in the theory I use when shaping returns and all other shapes.
First I set the area value with the flexible shape pattern. The flexible shape pattern doesn't care what the arrangement value is when doing this unlike a buck. When you offer a panel up to a buck it has to be in it's correct arrangement value for the buck to work- that is not the case for a flexible shape pattern. When developing the correct area value you allow the panel to be in the most user friendly arrangement so you can use low crown anvils and achieve a perfect surface. Once the area value is set ( the area value has to be set before the arrangement value can be set properly) then you can set the arrangement value. It took me a year to figure out and trust the system I had created. It never lets me down.
Ok, If the FSP system works for you that is fine, I personally do not see any advantages by using that method. You only shaping relatively small panels, what would happen if you where to make a big quarter panel like a 57 Chev or a Nova for instance, or a Chevelle or Cadillac or Mustang etc ,all in one piece? How would you control or arrange the shape then ? ....... Unfortunately you have not answer my earlier question either ...(how are you going to get those panels smooth ready for painting once welded to the rest of the bonnet?) Are you going to wheel those panels again ? Hand finished them? What is your next procedure? Been a metalshaper my self, and worked in the industry for many many years, I am just asking .
@@Handbuilt1 Hi Peter, I am not superman so If a panel is very large I break it into smaller sections and weld them together. I fully understand that you are an accomplished shaper, you have learned from the best and added your own techniques as well. That is what every master does. The fact that masters take different approaches to achieve the same goals means little.
hard work1
Yes it is, but it is a labor of love.