The Grand Master of STORY: Robert McKee | Rich Roll Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- Rich Roll sits down with screenwriting legend Robert McKee to talk about creativity, philosophy, and the power of telling-and owning-your story. To read more about Robert and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/richroll736
✌🏼🌱 - Rich
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FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS & DAN DRAKE
www.blakecurtis.net/
www.dandrake333.com/
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:46 - The Farewell Tour of Robert's Story Seminars
00:04:56 - Story 2 - "A Creative Spectrum of Choices"
00:13:03 - Why are Stories so Integral to the Human Experience?
00:15:07 - Storytelling on TV vs Film, Superiority of Longform Storytelling
00:23:22 - The Evolution of the Anti-Hero
00:30:53 - Ad Break
00:32:45 - The Bad Guy Era, Reckoning with Our Mirror Image
00:38:45 - Using Story to Make Sense of Reality
00:46:38 - Self deception - The stories we tell ourselves about ourselves
00:47:55 - McKee's Search for Meaning for the Human Condition
00:53:20 - Life is not a Journey, It's a Struggle
01:01:45 - What’s Out There Now that You’re Enjoying?
01:09:51 - What distinguishes a good writer from a great writer? Analogical Logic
01:14:37 - The War of Art. What do you feel about ‘the Muse’?
01:16:09 - The Marketing of Artists, They Want to Appear Mysterious.
01:21:38 - The back-story of the Film, Adaptation
01:33:11 - The Problem with Actors, "Love Me" & Gurus
01:36:22 - Back to Adaptation, Casting Brian Cox as McKee
01:38:26 - Structure. There are No Rules, Only Form.
01:45:36 - Writing Dialogue
01:47:47 - The Big Problem with Cinema
01:53:58 - Why is the art of storytelling and story important to the average person?
02:01:18 - Why the Decision to Teach Storytelling?
02:08:20 - Robert McKee's Legacy
02:10:39 - Closing
* * * * *
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Hi I'm Rich Roll. I'm a vegan ultra-endurance athlete, author, podcaster, public speaker & wellness evangelist. But mainly I'm a dad of four. If you want to know more, visit my website or check out these two the NY Times articles:
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What a tough crowd. He’s an inspiration and has so much insight. As a host let him finish his thoughts from the subjects you raise. He has a lot more to say than you as all you do is piggy back off his insight. Such an honor to have him spend time out of his busy day to give you this interview. Read the book Story and is such an inspiration as he’s learned from the greatest from the university of Michigan and his career. Love McKee. He knows people and life. ❤🎉
love to see someone who has respect for their profession talk about it , thanks for this interesting discussion.
You won🎉
It takes something to stand out in the "interviewing experts" genre of podcasts. Rich Roll surely does with his diverse range of guests. His sharp intelligence is ever present but he doesn't intrude and make it all about him. Yes - I'm a fan. Having listened to this one I've just ordered the book on audible. Been inspired. thank you
I loved every minute of this, i have pages upon pages of notes. Thank you both. 💜🙏
I understand that he doesn't want our love, but I don't care! He has mine & so much appreciation for what Story taught me - not just about writing but about life.
You won
Robert McKee is inspiratioal.
I have so say I love love the intro. Good job! ❤
McKee is still truth telling and brilliant. And my dad was a monster.
Just had to revisit the McKee scene from the film Adaptation to get set up before watching this interview
wow what a tough audience, some of these comments. take what you like, leave the rest. I enjoyed Rich's guide to attempt to guide this gentelemen.... i am a "want to be" writer. thanks Rick. have a great week. i agree with the comments about the problems of the "movie industry".
Sopranos and Lost seem to be the go to for long form examples.. am I misunderstanding Babylon 5 as an early example of long form TV story? A great interview and keen minds at play.. love it.
I believe that we relate more to stories than to lists because we're emotional beings! We relate to lived experiences. Without our senses, what can our brains do? "Sensitive," "feelings," these words are both literal and figurative because they express the connection between the external with the internal. | Robert McKee's cheekbones are as striking as his insights.
I'm glad to see such a legend agree on BCS being the best TV show of all time.
Most people won't balk at "Breaking Bad", but it seems there's a lot of folks out there that didn't share the same love for BCS.
Who’s saying that though? I feel like everyone that watched BCS and is capable of making it past the “building up” (also known as the “boring parts”) and reach the pay offs, loves BCS. But yes, it feels really good that Robert McKee agrees
@@DanLyndondude u sound so pretentious. There is really good arguments for why BB and/or BCS are the best shows of all time. Quit your attitude. When the expert on story himself says that BCS is the best tv show ever there has to be something to it. You can disagree but to say they're not even close is so foolish of you. Your statement really makes me doubt your media literacy. Even if it does have some cartoonish elements sometimes they use it in a complementary way and obviously people like those shows a lot. They're in every aspect of filmmaking outstanding
Can you please comment the time stamp of the BCS reference?
Found it 1:07:24
I thought the final conclusion was a bit corny and could have been better written, but overall the series was pretty incredible.
I took his class.. when he first started..in a small classroom , about 15 of us, at I think Santa Monica College.... 40 years ago..I was for sure.. inspired...He is a great orator for doing this...and i remember a few choice words he said about good writing..... But after i became a professional Story Analyst.. a few years later... I found that the BIBLE for knowing everything about... what a great story is... is from the writing of Joseph Campbell... "The Hero's Journey"... THIS.. is all you need... and surpasses by far.. the lectures from McKee... ( The book that distills it is "The Writers Journey".. by Christopher Vogler )...
So very good, thank you!
Robert McKee reminds me of an English professor I had in college. I remember I didn't care much for that professor at the time. But, man, I learned a lot from him and didn't even know it at the time. I still value his lessons on Shakespeare, as well as plot, setting, point of view, etc. Though I think McKee can be difficult to take, I think his teachings are quite likely to be valuable.
One needs to be humble enough, or be humbled enough (by life's brutalities), to seek wisdom - as different from having decided already the futility of it. Then it can be discovered that there are a few who have solved life's problem, and graciously left us the methods by which we can too. Then we can set about putting into practice these loving rigours to find the truth, and freedom. Though it may take a lifetime or several, this is the hope that isn't false, that we can all cling to (IMHO)...
A blessing 😊ty
I'm like ... wait 3 hours ago.. a new Rich Roll video! SNAP CLICK PLAY NOW
Just wanted to share from California that Robert McKee ought to have learned on his journey by now to not talk over his conversation companion as if he's the 4th and youngest child in the family clamoring for attention at the dinner table.
Rich, You usually allow your interviewee talk, but man you were stepping all over Robert. Strange, because you are really good about listening. ????
No the guest couldn’t stop interrupting and wouldn’t let Rich finish a thought or question and was talking over Rich many times.
@@mandapanda6730 I totally agree
I thoroughly agree with McKee on the nauseating use of the words "journey" and "share." Both make me throw up. People are always thanking others for "sharing." Ick. Ick. Ick. Gag.
This was an interesting one. He's a realist, whatever that may mean It's not a surprise that he is friends with Steven Pressfield as they are a lot alike.
Star is not just about the literature poem engineering and I do a lot of science management and I believe the sciences
PTSD
Pity, the soul divider.
When we write with flow we write what happened to us and when we write with ego mentality we write what happened to us. Angle wise, journal wise and so on.
“When you start on your journey to Ithaca, then pray that the road is long.” CP Cavafy
It’s an hard to listen too conversation I did consume only the audio version. Thanks rich for being calm and respectful too your guest when he’s not really ingaging in a conversation but his way more on a one side type of discussion.
Justin... you are not real
His book ‘Story’ is pretty rule based and there are some good insights into what drama actually is. Nothing that others haven’t said before.
But geez, he’s a grump!
Don't forget the date it was published. A lot of the most popular screenwriting and story analysis books today include segments based on McKee's 'Story'.
"The worst time of your life is childhood?" Poor Robert! What a terrible life he must have had. I loved childhood, it was golden. But then I grew up in a prosperous suburb in the southwest and childhood was long summer evenings playong hide and seek or kick the can on the front lawn after dinner, catching lightning bugs, building treehouses, giving plays in the summer and Christmas caroling with all the little kids on Christmas Eve. We had swimming races, trick-or-treated, did homework and watched Paladin and Sid Caesar and I Love Lucy on TV. I went to summer camp a few times, wore the dreadful felt skirts with poodles and sequined Christmas trees my mother made, had lemonade stands and we all went to the kid show on Saturday afternoons. It was a double feature. I don't know a single person - and there were a couple of dozen kids on our block - who had "an abusive alcoholic father." Horrors. That must have been tragic, but I can assure people, his experience wasn't the typical American childhood.
And I, from 1943 San Francisco, had a non-abusing alcoholic father, and lots of the childhood joys you mention. Each of us is a miracle of uniqueness, and I have Hope, Faith, and Love which is what makes me rich and wise, way beyond the genius of Robert McKee who has been my mentor for decades during my Journey-that’s what makes me an authority about famous personalities who are fabulous at outrageous put-downs, and shocking generalizations about the characters in and off paper ✍️ write the truth is his motto ❤
"The worst time in your life is your childhood?" What??? WHAT??? I adored my father AND my. childhood - it was a golden time and I wish I could go back to it. In my neighborhood, growing up in the Southwest in the 50s, we all knew the parents of our friends and they were dear and warm and kind. My childhood friends and I often remark on how great it was and what fun we had.
Rich Roll fans can be a bit too “California” for a guy like this. The absolute need to derive positivity and meaning beyond what occurs simply and naturally can be a such a delusional and exhausting chronic shortcoming.
I took his course in the 90s in Manhattan
Did you ever sell a script?
I wish you could edit out his constant throat clearing. I read his book years ago and it impacted my own writing as did Pressfield. Good to hear your own words in how his book influenced your own writing.
You won🎉
Did any of the writers for any of the Star Wars movies and shows take this guys classes at least once?
Lol
Because, they definitely need it.
Lol.
Interesting guy. I disagree about the dialogue bit. I can always pick out Sorkin and Tarantino dialogue.
What a misery he is !! Well done Rich on persevering on what is a fabulous subject.
One of the hardest guests to listen to. Also talking over Rich is just pure disrespect
Read his book. Maybe it’ll be easier for you 😂
McKee: So yeah Freud HHRRGH once said HHRRGH happy endngs suck HHRRGH
Mr McKee needs to go to the grocery store and buy a mucus relief product. He clears his throat three times in every sentence which is irritating to listen to. That's uncomfortable but easily fixable.
"On little cat feet." Not cat's feet. Even I know that and I don't like poetry.
Brilliant interview, but : Why in the world are they sitting so far apart? This feels like a fireside chat in the Kremlin.
Eghnt... EGHNT
The constant throat noises are driving me insane!!!
The characters are more complex than before. So a character can be a bad guy and a good person at the same time, and as said we see some of ourselves in their goodness or vulnerability which makes us connect to them. I'm sorry but the throat clearing is making this unwatchable after 36 min I'm out.
Let's all learn from a man who never wrote and sold a single screenplay in his life. Next, I'm going to Google University to earn a medical degree. After that I will be a physicist. No. make that astrophysicist.
Rich your not looking good these days , your gaining weight and your loosing you energy edge. Your in my prayers buddy . I have been with you and Julie since your first podcast ... Time for you to start paying attention to YOU ... Good luck .
Wow. Go easy on the guy. Had a quick look at a video from ten years ago. He appears to have some neuro degeneration. Which may be why it sounds like he’s retiring based on the start of the vid. Difficulty getting a sentence started is indicative of a specific disease. The one thing we all have in common is our own personal story called life, will end. Peace.
Dis rich-man has got no lips?
😂😂😂😂😂
What ?? "We all thought abusive alcoholic fathers were normal". ???? Jeez. Detroit must have been a terrible place. I'm sorry for whatever tragic childhood McKee must have had. I never knew of or saw an abusive alcoholic man or father in my childhood or even in my life growing up in the Southwest. And I'm the same age McKee is. So, much as I admire his work, his perspective is VERY skewed.
he is WRONG about the role of music, the music is one of the fastest responses to culture in general. it develops simultaneously with culture. writers reflect on past tense. music is congruent with the past, current, and future, also in real time. writers reflect after the fact, outside of sci-fi and fantasy. which also is not simultaneous as music is to culture. music represents the train of thought in any society/community.... period. And vice versa, as music influences culture, in real time. no other artform does that
I appreciate McKee but the Trump Derangement Syndrome is real. Sad.
They live in a bubble and have no clue what's going on in the world. No clue about child-trafficking, no clue about FED, no clue about WEF. OR they are part of the stinking system!
Hope the dude RM is ok.. lots of word slurring coming from him.
Jeez Rich, you're HUGELY putting me off with these hideous adverts interrupting the conversation every few minutes! You're ruining your otherwise superb podcasts with this greed, in my humble opinion.
So many!
'greed'? Would you rather have a 'user pay' model in terms of accessing Rich's podcasts? I'll take a few ads (which I fast forward through) rather than have to pay out of pocket to view/listen Rich's podcasts.
Why do you assume its greed? How do you know he doesn’t have high overhead to cover? Also even if he does make a big profit, so what? He’s not allowed to make some money? You’re gonna hate on someone for that? Everyone needs to make money, just fast forward through the ads like everyone else. I think you’re greedy for expecting a free podcast with as many ads as you want.
It irritates the hell out of me that all these men who talk about long form stories on tv never talk about anything but Sopranos and Breaking Bad, both of which were awful and so nasty I gave up on them quickly. I watched the better part of Breaking Bad when it came out, found it boring and now can barely remember it. Men like completely different stories than women do. These guys never talk about Downton Abbey which I loved and remember every episode of. Face it - men only like crime and killing and fighting and evil. . Downton Abbey was light years better than either of those series they are so gaga over.
It's almost as if art is subjective. You can enjoy what you enjoy, others can enjoy what they enjoy.
Also, Better Call Saul is a nuanced character study that happens have criminal aspects to it. It's the conversations that I find so riveting.
What an unlistenable podcast! Robert keeps interrupting
he's a bit senile and prob taking meds (why he is coughing all the time).
this guy is a con artist he hasn't been credited for any of the works he claims he has consulted on. nor can you find any of the quotes which other people said anywhere else than on his website. guy is lying big time. surprised rich roll didnt investigate this before having him on.
He uses this reference on his website but you cant find it anywhere else. "Peter Jackson (writer/director of The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, The Hobbit) has lauded him as "The Guru of Gurus."
i think his ideas are cool, but he doesnt have the credits which he claim he has on numerous platforms, such as his website, wikipedia etc.
@@heliusqarry8421 Soooo many script consultations & even rewrites go uncredited. It's pretty common. It's also fair if his techniques don't work for you or you don't like him for some personal reason, but he certainly is not a con artist and is well known/respected in the industry. Here's one of many examples of that : ruclips.net/video/2LHMWs9AHLA/видео.html
You have no clue what you're talking about. He's a f*cking legend in Hollywood among screenwriters, he has trained the best and everyone in Hollywood knows and respects him for a reason. If he's a fake then this is THE greatest and longest running scam of all time. 😂
This guy is just negative. And drama and “suffering” is much more lucrative and easy to go for as a writer. Tragedies for eons have proved this. And poor Rich is trying to bring in some So. Cal sunshine ☀️ to little avail. 😂
Well this guy was depressing to listen to
Rich is trying hard to steer this "monologue", but even with his experience you see how hard it is to get a good interview out of a man who is obviously a bit senile. I'm just 25 minutes in and I'm starting to grasp it a bit, so give it a chance.