'Real danger’ of disaster for Rishi Sunak’s Tories ‘at the hands of Farage and Reform’
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- “The time has now come for Sunak to take on the party, not simply try to coax back Reform UK voters into the Tory fold by throwing them scraps of meat.”
It’s time for Rishi Sunak to “take the gloves off” and deal with Nigel Farage, says Peter Mandelson. Daniel Finkelstein says he's worried about what this election means for the future of the centre-right.
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The tories have self imploded by not listening to the People
A majority of 200 is exactly the same as a majority of 80 in terms of our parliament. This whole " supermajority " is just nonsense.
Also, it's funny that a party that is in favor of FPTP complains about it. If the Tories are so concerned about "supermajorities", they should support PR.
A super majority would be when the official opposition doesn't have enough MPs to fill the front bench.
Exactly it’s playing the ‘bogeyman’ card to somehow stave off annihilation
Spot on. But the Media love it - but then, they love any catch phrase with a ring to it. And it gives them an invented story line - will it or will it not be a supermajority, with all that it (does not in any real way) mean?
@@mrm7058 they will start supporting PR on July 5th
Talking of leading the country up a dead end...
that's precisely what Boris did.
Well he kept his Missus happy for a few months...
Yup, sovereignty and independence are a dead-end for any country🤦♂
Be fair, Boris was better than that
@@infoillness4222In more ways than one.
@@charleswhite758 Yum yum I'm loving my New Zealand lamb...that's independence for ya...
If you changed your antiquated First Past The Post voting system, which was last for for purpose in the 19th Century, then you wouldn’t have to worry about “stonking majorities” for anyone.
Trouble is we like the idea of “stonking majorities” when we're on the winning side.
Even the 19th century had PR. Some British constituencies were Single Transferable Vote (STV), AKA British PR. It's the form of PR used in Ireland and Australia
All that proportional representation does is create unstable governments made up of coalitions hatched out in secret back room deals. No thanks.
PR is dreadful. Sectarian voting will come in, 5M Muslims making a party and voting for it would give it considerable power, or numerous millions voting for green nutters, no thanks. This isn’t ideal, but anyone with an ounce of foresight would run a mile from Pr
@czhaok Don't be so ridiculous.
This has got little to do with Sunak. I'm not saying he's good, but the party was f00ked before he took over.
It was, but Sunak had a window of opportunity to create a break with the past when he replaced Truss - he didnt take that opportunity and so has to carry the whole history on his back.
The damage was done as soon a party gate hit ITV News in 2021. The Tories have been behind in every poll published since mid December 2021.
Sunak could have made a effort, though. He has made little effort to relate to the people.
He's been in the cabinet for 4yrs.O! It's not his fault.So give everybody else a free pass.It must be aliens then ?
It has alot to do with Sunak. Yes the Etonians have turned the right-wing bench into Thatcher's dream autocratic party but that would not have happened without people like Sunak
I advise that you research Sunak's history. He is a self-serving profiteering monster who has no regard for common values or any sympathy, let alone empathy, with common folk.
This is absolutely ridiculous. I didn't see you lot complaining when Boris Johnson got a stonking majority in 2019.
You are right in that this is ridiculous, and the Tories pleading like this is both unseemly and pathetic. I can imagine what the MSM would have said if in 2019, the Labour front bench had come out with something like, "don't elect a literal clown to rubberstamp arrangements for the greatest act of self-harm a country has ever inflicted". However, the Tory lead in polls just before the election was about 10%, so the situation was somewhat different.
It’s all just numbers. With a majority of 80 Johnson had unfettered power and it’s so disingenuous to talk about a ‘super majority’ of Labour as if a 300 majority makes them so much less accountable than 100 majority. That’s nonsense! They would be untouchable whether they have 350 MPs or 500MPs. The Tories are terrified it’s looking possible they may come third and see Ed Davey lead the opposition hence this doom mongering about ‘super majorities’
Time's Radio does seem to propagandize alot for the right no matter the issue. Lots of guests have been trump lovers as well.🤮🤮🤮
@@bluegold21
That's because _The Times_ is a Tory rag.
@@bluegold21Are you serious? You couldn't get two more lefties than these two 😅😅😅
We need a centre right alternative. The Tories have let the country down very badly.
Peter Mandelson seems really afraid of Farage and Reform, very interesting. Does he think it could harm Labour or affect the uni party concept ( of Labour/ Tory same policies ) of how our system of government operates.
He should have no fear as reform are merely stealing tory votes and will ensure a labour victory.
Probably because Reform is the UK a real populist movement and the problem is that populist can promise the world, and don't need to deliver. The UK is almost knocked-out and it will be very hard to deliver a real upward change in the next 5 years. A shouting populist movement can get in with a 35-40% real share of the vote if all stars all align. Don't forget that in countries as the Netherlands, France, Germany and Belgium those right-wing (some extreme rightwing) populist party get 30-35% of the vote. The proportional systems keep those parties out, or in coalition governments. The "winner takes all" is very dangerous with this kind of parties.
Yes, because he is a globalist who wants to turn the UK into a third World cesspitt.
I can't understand what frightens him so much.
Reality?
These 2 are scared to death of any sort of PR is my takeaway here.
Yes, of course they are... The Duopoly of Tory and Labour, work very well, and need each other, to be able to keep on maintaining their hold on power... It is in both their interests, to keep the FPTP system running... First Past The Post is great, as long as there are only these TWO parties.... We, the people, desperately need to lever the power away from these two dinosaur parties....
Good to see mandy deluding himself. I don't think he understands how out of touch he has become...
What did he say that is delusional and out of touch? Specifics?
Dont blame all on Sunak ! Torys have let their voters down big Time..No body is talking what people want ? Your missing the main concerns of majority of ordinary people! My vote will go to Reform, ex Tory voter here for 40 years !
Put a conservative candidate with a blue rosette and a dog with a rosette of any other colour, I will vote for the dog.
The conservatives have destroyed this country. Nothing works!
The last four years have been horrific
You need to look long and hard at Blair as well-destroyed final salary pensions for the working class with his tax raid-raised £100b but-apart from the end of decent pensions for the working class-WHAT have we got to show for it? Also fecked up the NHS with idiotic management on six figure salaries and PFI deals even the Tories would have been scared to offer-deald crippling the NHS to this day. Way way too simplistic to say it's all down to the useless Tories-its down to a useless (ALL party's) political class.
@@angelajane1038 The last 14 years have been worse!
Try 2008.
The country’s gone to the dogs!
The Prince of Darkness emerges from the Depths.... What a piece of work.
Thank god we don’t have smellyvision he stinks!
Why is Bliar's Henchman, being brought out , is it because Tony Blair is the Next Head of the WEF?
In case it escped your attention, every major political party is led by Blairites including the Tories. It has nothing to do with the WEF, every western country is being run by this cancerous global managerialism, and we've only experienced the start of it.
And not a mention of mass immigration...
Vote for hope, vote for change, vote for a future for U.K.
VOTE REFORM UK
Why would anyone listen to the Tory Party after they've wasted the last few years infighting? They need to be taught a lesson by the electorate that they can never forget.
VOTE NON-TORY, NON-REFORM!!!!!!
No party will/could sort out the mess that is now the U.K. in less than three full terms.
Yes i'm afraid your right...
Yuuuuuup.
Farage could do it in 6 months.
@@charleswhite758 What like lick all the fake orange tanning agent off Trump's entire flacid body...??
@@charleswhite758 lol!
If you want reform, vote for Reform.
Be careful what you wish for...
Got your cap ready for the IMF? With a £20,000 personal allowance you'll need it.
And hopefully you'll have your health insurance money in your back pocket too.
@@hustlinmagic Precisely...not only that but they'll sell the rest of the family silver off as well...we might as well just send our utility money directly to Blackrock and Vanguard...and they'll be selling our Councils shortly
If you want the death of the NHS....
@@hustlinmagicrubbish fear mongering
In all seriousness - who gives a flying what Sunak says or does now, and over the next 2 weeks. He and the Tories are toast for the next 2 election cycles. It’s rinse and repeat from 1997 to Cameron. All is cyclical.
What we really need to be focusing on is Starmer, he needs a spotlight on him so bright that it’s blinding - because he is the next PM. Sunak is a distraction at present and one that should not be taking time and attention and critical observation of Labour and the PM in waiting.
The Tories deserve nothing more than a huge defeat. A large majority for Starner will encourage then to govern from the centre tee. He’s a centrist at heart and with a large majority he doesn’t have to be beholding to the left of his party.
Starmer is a socialist. Would you really want to live in a socialist society?
@@rokketron He’s pretty much a centrist and only an idiot would suggest that Britain would become a true socialist country if he’s elected. It’ll be a form of social democracy which combines the left’s promotion of equality with an economy which doesn’t totally abandon capitalism. It’ll be very little for you to worry about. The reforms won’t be deep or irreversible. You can sleep soundly
Vote liebor get islam
@@user-qc5mz8fc7x Did a child write that?
Mandelson was a great Blairite failure I'm not taking lessons from him. I'm Voting Reform
The Tories 'Centre Right'? That is utterly laughable.
Given Blair's legacy the idea that Starmer will emulate him is nightmarish
It’s like the difference between a technical recession and a recession. It’s still a recession!!
I will never vote for Rishi Sunak. To leave the DD day early and to say they overran a bit and apologised to the TV presenter. The tories have had it .
Why not vote for reform???
Because there idiots
Reform has the dense vote sown up.
Many reasons but go for it if you want, just remember Farage isn't in this for you, he's in it for himself and his backers
@@bluntlaser Do you honestly believe any politicians are in it for us, cast your mind back to the expenses scandal, most were at it from all parties, both Tories and Labour tied us in more deeply into the EU without ever asking us even that one eyed tw@t Brown promised us a referendum then didn't give us one.
Because reform are populist fascists.
oh man would i love the tories to win less than a 100 seats, serves them 100% right for choosing johnson.. I Don't think there's anyone in the party who could have done that much better than sunak after the truss debacle. Maybe mourdant, but i doubt it would be much better.
The British public are fed up with the same old as it doesn't work. They are fed up with having to choose between Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum knowing there's not much difference between them, and want a major reshuffle of government now. Vote Reform and it just might happen.
Mandleson says Reform have taken half the Tory vote and yet says the Tories shouldn't try to get those voters back. 😂
it's too late. Cameron should have done that in 2014. but he saw what happened to John Major in 1997, and he bottled it!
a tory protest lets encourage them to panic and go further right they will be out for decades
how can torys attack anyone including reform??? torys have been lying for 14 years!!!!
Sunak not upset about bad pols for himself. He doesn’t want to be a war time prime minister. That’s why he’s calling the elections earlier.
Peter Mandelslime has got a nerve. Still, none of us will listen to him or Rishi Rat, nor any other WEF lover. We are voting for Reform come what may,
The video frame composition for Peter Mandelson in this video is brilliant - the colour co-ordination, the neon, the geometry, the fact that his head is perfectly positioned between all the animated text on the TV behind him, the way the "How to win an Election" graphic in the upper left perfectly occupies that space in the frame... Lovely stuff. In my opinion it's a very engaging shot and one of the most visually appealing things I've seen on the channel to date.
Sunak is running party political election campaign. Farage is running a presidential campaign.
Time to abolish the House of Lords and replace it with an elected regional body.
Bring in a Preferential Voting system and make voting compulsory. Voting is a Civic responsibility and will prevent absurd situations where slightly more than a third of voters drag everybody else out of Europe and trash the economy.
“I’m Matt Chorley”
*switch off*
Oh a leader with a core set of principles? I remember that guy
Mandelson is geting worried :) VOTE REFORM
Bot
Reform are the new nasty party. 😬
Yes and vote for racism division in society and hatred.
This is guy with tony blair opened the doors to mass immigration
I think Mandelson is correct that the Tories could win over the centre. But the centre is the middle majority of the electorate. Not the midpoint between the two main parties. On immigration for example: I think the average Brit would have quite reasonable views. They would see value in a cosmopolitan society, but want numbers to be sustainable. If the supposedly conservative position is an unmanageably high net migration of 700K per year, they're going to keep losing votes to Reform.
14 years , hasn't been a deadend? Don't be a Norwegian Blue
Whether it is the end of the Conservative Party won't be known for a long time yet and that will depend on how Labour governs in the coming years. Farage's party has little or no parliamentary experience let alone experience of government so all this talk of them replacing the Conservative Party is premature to say the least.
“His credibility will continue to sink”
He has any credibility left?
For me only now one way no Cromwell so reform tories gone labour another timebomb
Listening to the 'Prince of Darkness' evil individual is sickening. He should be jailed for what he did while in government.
Labour and the conservatives over the years haven't led us up a dead end? lol
Would be nice if they got a labour commentator on as well
Rishi be lucky for some Michael Foot scenario. Farage is just a campaigner, not a negotiator, in fact one who has poor attendance in the European Parliament. Objectively he will achieve little, and even if Clacton chooses him, he will not achieve anything.
He's divisive, because he's exposed all your lying 💩?
Mandleson should be in prison.
intro: "His credibility is going to sink"
Me: He has credibility at this point?
Why does Times Radio keep having on this incredibly boring man with the weird glasses? 🤔
Why would anyone vote for an even more right wing party?
I agree, but the one-nation Tories have been in retreat from the right-wing headbangers for years.
And now, for something completely different, a country with a labour up it's nose!
Are we seeing the rumblings of the calm and sensible centre-left and centre-right? Interesting video. What can we all do to: 1. Reduce extremism. 2. Improve public services from the community level. 3. Stabilise business taxes. 4. Improve wealth outcomes. And 5. Protect MPs from violence?
Labour: Labour are better off being the party of the centre ground. We need dynamism and delivery.
Sunak: Sunak should root the party out and turn it into a sensible pro-single market centre-right party that advocates cutting corporate taxes and increasing the minimum wage.
Funnily enough, I'd love to see Labour cut corporate tax eventually and perhaps increase the personal allowance. This would send a clear signal they are open to the centrist vote base long term. I wonder what would happen if we had a mixed-market approach; pro-business, pro-worker, but also pro-political innovation. Good clip!
it’s a bit rich for the Tories to be talking about denying labour a supermajority when that’s the very thing they’ve had for the last five years very very rich
Well if you give Labour a super majority it can be dangerous. They turn the country into a socialist state.
Well if you give Labour a super majority it can be dangerous. They turn the country into a socialist state.
Agree with peter. This country needs a labour government to fix the mess, this tory government has created..
He wants more power taken away from the elected Parliament and given to unelected judges, civil servants and quangos.
VOTE REFORM JOIN THE REBELLION AGAINST THE ESTABLISHMENT
Or vote Trump.
Farage is the poor man’s Donald Trump.
Or not the same n watch your country fall apart
@@summerwynne6425pull the wool from your eyes
With privately, educated millionaire, former city banker and man of the people Nigel Farage. Are you having a laugh?
He speaks for the interests of people like him.
Do YOU bank with Coutts? You know like the King and stuff. Don't have a spare million? Nige does!
And yet you think he represents you.
Sorry, mate, we've been had with that one before.
*Jeremy Clarkson meme*
-Oh no!
-Anyways
🤷🏻
He can't slate reform as they may join together, conref, refcon
Mandy is correct for once. If the Tories don't face down Farage, they might as well give up. You can't 'out-Farage' Farage.
Peter Mandelson says that a responsible government determines policies by arriving at a concensus view or any given issue or situation. HOWEVER, thus far Labour under Starmer appear NOT to be doing so.
Rather, much of the Labour Manifesto seems more to do with gaining favour with Tory voters than of seriously tackling wealth inequality, the housing crisis, etc.
Hence:
a) Despite overwhelming support among the electorate for *Re-Nationalising Water and Energy,* this is has been RULED OUT COMPLETELY by the Labour leadership. Admittedly, it is possible that this could be on the Manifesto ready for the next election or 4 or 5 year's time, but voters want this to be a priority policy.
In any case, it seems that like Blair before him, Starmer is determined to maintain the Neoliberal status quo and has ZERO intention of moving the UK back to having a Mixed Economy. Apparently such a move might be seen as a sign of Labour moving to the extreme left, which a Mixed Economy most certainly is NOT.
b) My understading is that among the electorate there is a large majority in support of bringing back Capital Punishment. But responsible governments have argued that bowing to public pressure would NOT be a good move from the point of view of human rights and civil rights.
So on some matters the government are best to try to put forward a counter argument, rather than merely devising policy based on public opinion.
Thus, SOME policies are best decided by our elected representatives, whilst OTHERS should be by popular mandate.
And this is the built-in dilemma and issue which all democratic systems of government must face.
But there are 3 elephants in the room, namely:
*1) The billionaire owned and controlled UK media and press.* Through their minions, the likes of Rupert Murdoch and Viscount Rothermere exert disproportionate influence over attitudes and voting intentions.
*2) Social Media.* This can be used to manipulate the electorate, or at least sections of the electorate. Hence the involvement of Cambridge Analytica, Steve Bannon, the FSB under Putin, etc. on whether the UK should leave the EU.
*3) Our archaic and unfit-for-purpose FPTP Electoral System.*
The super-rich have the tools to manipulate both social attitudes and voting intentions among large swathes of the electorate. They went to a lot of trouble to be able to influence public opinion, and they do so to further enrich themselves and to have ever greater control over governments.
From an outside looking in, something is not working in the UK. Reform (no pun intended)is needed in:
The British parliamentary system
The British electoral system
Immigration; and
The NHS
Everyone knows that. The only party talking about that is Reform. A centre right perspective, certainly, but at least they are talking about doing something. This is attractive to not only a lot of centre right voters but to some Labour voters as well.
What I would like to see is the centre left party, labour, use their enormous political capital to address those reforms in their policy. But unfortunately, they lack the courage to do that. They will win in a landslide, make a lot of "second level" changes that many will see as woke, do little if nothing in terms of big picture issues like electoral/parliamentary reform or the NHS which has the potential to bring the country down; and will do nothing about Immigration reform due to a fear that in some way they'll upset some global agencies, some idealist middle class elites, or minority group activists far removed from their actual core constituents. Ultimately, in 5 years time Labour will be hanging by a thread again, politically, with the possibility of another lurch to the left.
I just wish there was a left-wing Reform Party.
That's not Regression to the Mean. Regression to the Mean is a feature of a Gaussian Distribution.
I don't agree with Peter Mandelson where he says that Starmer has been on a journey. I'm a tad more cynical. It seems clear to me that Starmer was always an uber-ambitious character, and wanted to become Labour leader and then PM, but without any great vision for the nation of what he would do once in power. Rather like Boris Johnson, in fact - but without the charm and the swagger.
Hence:
Starmer had given the strong IMPRESSION that he was progressive figure. Hence the 10 pledges made during the leadership contest, which, once achieving his first ambition to become party leader, he then ditched.
Starmer deliberately mis-represented himself in order to achieve these objectives. His obvious U-turns on matters such as Re-Nationalising Water cannot be explained away as him 'being on a journey.' It's more fundamental than that: he SUPPORTS the Neoliberal status quo.
Whilst Tony Blair ALSO supported the Neoliberal status quo, he didn't mis-represent himself to achieve his objectives.
I will go further: Mandelson himself has been the architect of placing a right-wing figure (masquerading as a 'lefty') as Labour leader, including the underhand means by which this was achieved. Labour is no longer a 'Broad Church' as it had been under John Smith and even under Blair, but Starmer's purges of the left have transformed Labour into a centre-right political party.
Thus the electorate now have Hobson's choice: we get to choose between a centre-right party or a coalition of chaos between Tory and Reform UK - now both on the extreme right. And at the FOLLOWING election in 4 or 5 years' time, we'll have exactly the SAME choice.
I just hope Starmer implements some bold policies to tackle the grave problems left by the inept, corrupt ideologues who have spent the past 14 years wrecking our economy and indulging in disaster capitalism.
My fear is that he will not.
Starmer, like Blair, is a Eurocommunist. These post-68 leftists don't really care about nationalisation, because stakeholderism can achieve the same things and is harder to reverse later.
Conservatives should stand down for reform but the truth is you have never let nigel get where he should be we will hes a threat to you all nigel will have his day with you lot 😂😂😂
Danny has a point, “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." Richard Feynman’s famous conclusion regarding the Columbia disaster. It also works for Government, and Starmer facing the reality of the challenges.n
Thanks for posting
Absolutely, and rightly so, 80 seat majority wasted!!
Great episode…election coverage has been so boring on mainstream news
This bakes the Tories and the Reform into a permanent minority status. The country is closer to remain now than ever, what future does an even harder Brexit have?
Where are we now… already up the creek without a paddle
Can't bear Mandelson. He seems fair but feels foul.
tHE TiMEs gets white collar crims on to discuss other white collar crims 😂
Tories have died. Sorry. It is a shame, they have survived for 300 years but enough is enough and they have to go.
Why do so many people (including these two distinguished and intelligent guests) seem to enjoy saying, 'You know' every few seconds!? Clearly, the reason we are tuned in or watching on RUclips is because we DON'T know! (I realise it's a 'filler' and they say, 'You know', 'I mean', 'Er' and 'Um', 'basically', 'obviously' etc. because they need to give their brains time to think!) It would be so much easier to listen to - and understand - if they would simply slow down!
Itchy Sack has shown that he hasn’t the smarts to govern.
not at thehands of forage and reform
They did it to themselves
Vote reform 🏴🇬🇧🏴
I won't take any advice from a War Criminal 😈
Peter Mandelson is such a hypocrite
Putting the results of the most recent yougov poll (the one putting the Tories behind Reform) into electoral calculus' seat predictor gives both the Tories and Lib Dems exactly the same number of seats (68 seats each).
Obviously it's quite unlikely to happen (but this is probably the first time it's been even a remote proposition) but my understanding is that the Speaker picks who is the official opposition.
What do the panellists think the Speaker would do? I think in more "normal times" (not that this would ever happen in normal times) the default would still be the Tories, as their current position is probably an aberration, but given that they'll be riven by a leadership change and almost-certianly more infighting, would the Lib Dems be the better choice? And can the Official Opposition be changed? So if the Lib Dems became the opposition but there was a by-election in a year's time and some defections from Reform back to the Tories, putting their numbers back above the Lib Dems, could or would the Speaker redesignate them as the Official Opposition?
I got a letter from hid tory mp it went straight into the bin
I love this
they haven't got this right either
Going to Qatar and ignoring their human rights record is 'learning from experience' apparently. Yet another piece of evidence to show how totally overrated Danny Finkelstein is
In danger of what?
Tories dare not attack reform. They will lose half their candidates to reform. They should have got rid of Braverman, Patel and Co long time ago.
Why don’t the tories talk about the abject failure of Brexit? And stop pandering to Farage agendas, which has detracted from this issue very successfully.
Rusty sunhat and his party are finished 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
`Goodbye' is all they wrote...
sunak Doesn't Own the Tories ok. They were They, when it was Dagged into position as "leader" of the Tories! The Least Criticised Pm In British history, and the Mildest of censure Ever!
That's enough publications prop R Murdoch
Unlike Mandelson, Corbyn never went to Epstein Island
A vote for the Tories is a vote for Labour. Reform all the way!
🚮
Ok, IF you believe that #Trump is good for america.....you also should vote for #NigelFarlage in the UK! They are booth grifters BUT Nigel is way more smarter than Trump (and so are 90% of worlds poulation) The "failing at all" Trump-turd is the best depiction how stupidity "looks and sounds like"! BUT maybe Nigel is a REAL patriot (unlike Trump) and he can do booth: Enrich himself AND make the UK better! Let´s see what happen....i don´t really care anymore because i work/live in Swiss since 2020
MANDY IS PANICING....VOTE REFORM
Another Bot
I would love Sunak to lose his seat but hopefully he won't as he will have the perfect excuse to keave politics and go to America.
I would love to see Sunak and the invisible Jeremy Hunt lose their seats....