What I love about your videos is that you don't create your videos as to what others may want to see, or what may work better in the algorithm, you simply teach within yourself and what you know is true. I'm not certain if I expressed myself well here but I appreciate your genuineness.
I'm new to tennis. I never understood why someone didn't do this sort of video earlier to show the seemingly small difference in angle between the slice, flat, and topspin serves. This is great. Congrats in using technology to really help understand the nuances.
Hi, I've been a uspta teaching pro / technical development coach for 37 years. This is excellent video work and accurate analysis. Great job! Would have been interesting to see the face angle difference if serving to the same target though. Emphasis then might have to have been a little bit more on the swing path, slightly more left to right on the way up to, and through contact to add the spin, not relying primarily on the face angle difference.
Thank you for the feedback, Bob! So if I understand correctly you would like to see a comparison between a flat and slice serve and in both cases going for the same target? Down the T or out wide?
@@feeltennis Hi again, thanks for your reply. I was just thinking it might be more representative and interesting to see (at least for technique nuts like us), in that the face angle at contact mainly determines the target direction. So whether a flat or spin serve, the face angle is probably even closer to the same if the target were the same. I don't know that it's worth producing another video just for that though! I'm sure many people appreciate the time and work you put into these. So, thank you for that. I have shared these with many of my students.
Yes, the angle change would be even smaller then in the above examples. I'll try and include something on that topic when I make a video on how to disguise the serve...
These videos are amazing! 💯 I have a quick question, if you wanted to slice down the T, would you change your body position, toss, or change your swing path? Thanks so much!
I would not change anything consciously, I would just aim. In slow motion analysis we could see some minute difference but again, this would not happen consciously.
I think the only possible way to do a slice serve down the T in deuce court is to serve from far right, almost near the tram line. May be its an option in doubles
On the side view we can see the biggest difference of them all, which is where the ball is hit. For the slice, the ball is mostly side-by-side with his head, on the flat serve the ball is right in front of him. That makes a huge difference along with the angle of the racquet! Pretty cool to see the minor details!
Tomas, I see this sort of analysis nowhere else. In the last few weeks, my serve has improved dramatically thanks to your insightful instruction. Thank you, my friend!
Serve slower means more spin with control and shorter. Stand a meter or two away from the service line to get more angle. They know it's coming, but often the drag is so far out it doesn't matter. Really effective in doubles.
No, as soon as we change the grip we "confuse" our brain since it now needs to change the swing path. One could argue that this could be learned at childhood and that's possible but as an adult recreational tennis player you will just confuse yourself by trying to slightly change grips.
Hi Tomaz, as always i’m enjoying your videos. Just a question on the point of contact for the slice on the ball, on a clock face would you recomend 1 or 2oclock? Also, i think you said (when practising) if the ball goes too much to the left, throw your racket more to the right? Thanks Sean
Good video. For slice serves only - I notice that some players and coaches use either half pronation or full pronation, (i.e., from supination all the way around to pronation). I would tend to the latter not the former - full pronation. Would it not be confusing to just use the half pronation (makes it confusing for the player) for the slice and not the full pronation so compatitors would know what serve you are hitting? Discuss.
I don't know why but I find it easier to hit a slice when I don't pronate. Some people teach it that way, and you can in fact hit it that way. I find that when I pronate I tend to hit the ball faster but when I don't pronate I tend to create more spin and can hit a more severe angle, although the ball is much slower
Like I mention in the video, how we teach and visualize is different from what really happens. So while an instruction to "carve around the ball" can help the player hit a better slice serve, if we analyze that serve in slow motion we'll see that no such carving takes place. ;)
Tomaz, Tilden wrote a book on "Spin" - you could author a book on "Angles." Stop action, slow motion and tellestrator tools painted a clear picture for me. Thanks. May I ask what software program you use to create your tennis "magic?"
I am using OnForm, note that it works only on Apple devices: www.onform.com/. I do plan to write a book on tactics and the mental game at some point but I am not ready yet...
so basically a slice serve with pronation is a flat serve that is hit off centered? The right side of the ball if going wide to the deuce. 1 o clock toss and swings more to the right and then around
Hello, I'm from Argentina, I like the images in your videos, although I don't understand a word of the language, even if nothing else, could you configure it to be able to translate with subtitles?
Hi, all my videos are enabled for subtitles. It must be something on the RUclips's side that doesn't allow you subtitles. Are you able to see Spanish subtitles on other tennis videos from other channels?
In the end, it is the ball position which determines type of sever: straight-up for flat, slight right for slice, slight left for kick. Very well explained, subscribed.
Amazing video. Your explanation luminates how little the physical differences are among three type of serves, and I realized that we shouldn't force exaggerated movements to wrap around or roll up the balls.
The serve motion is so complex but your analysis brings it to the point. I could watch your videos over and over again. Although I have always been good at throwing balls or javelin my tennis serve is weak. But your explanations motivate me to keep trying and improving because it is good mental training at the same time 😉
I've been wondering if I'm hitting my slice correctly or doing a “sakellaridi” since I wrote an article about Sapfo's serve. For sure, when I think about pronation just before serving, I'm gonna hit almost flat or slightly mishit. I have no choice but to film it. What surprises me the most is maybe the small difference in the racquet path whereas it's quite big for the kick serve - if I'm not mistaken. Great video as usual.
You should consider the fact that your slice and flat serves are not aimed at the same location (flat is aimed down the t and slice is aimed wide) resulting in a misleading comparison. Its movement of the racket that imparts spin on the ball and the angle of the face that determines the trajectory of the ball. If both serves were aimed at the same spot, there would be no difference in the angle of the racket at contact with the ball, the only difference would be the movement of the racket before and after contact.
Nope, because if I aimed down the T, the flat serve would "flat" at 90 degrees on the back side of the ball (like it is in the video) and the slice serve while theoretically possible would be very uncomfortable to hit by aligning the face of the racket exactly same flat 90 degrees on the back side of the ball. Even if I serve slice down the T, there will be racket angle at contact different from flat.
Thanks this was excellent. I have much better understanding now. I would love to see an explanation and video (slow motion) of the ball crossing the net for each type of serve. Show the distance it has to clear. I assume flat has smallest clearance?
I'm amazed how little a difference there is cuz it really feels like I am hitting the ball way on the right hand side and I guess I'm not on the slice.
Very good video, thanks! Kind of puts to bed a couple of things: 1. The brush across the back of the ball theory 2. The hit the top right of the ball at 1 or 2 o'clock theory You want to talk about tiny angles making huge differences in a sport. Take a look at golf! :)
Thanks for sharing! Yes, sports where we have to hit the ball are the most difficult sports in terms of controlling the outcome (tennis, golf, cricket, baseball, volleyball, soccer...) followed by sports where we throw the ball (football quarterback, handball, basketball...).
As a visual learner, this video has been incredibly enlightening and helpful. THANK YOU for all the hard work (and insights) you put in its production.
This is one of the best tennis videos one can watch. The video, analysis, and explanation are stellar and makes it easy to understand the differences between the different serves. Thanks Tomaz'.
Yes, as I mentioned slice serve should not be taught with pronation. Hitting on the side of the ball at 3 o'clock to exaggerate the slice and other tips work well. It's just that in reality we don't ever hit anywhere close to 3 o'clock. This is important for a coach to know. These are the typical drills: ruclips.net/video/l0dqozevSEk/видео.html. Secondly, I guarantee you that everyone pronates to some degree otherwise the ball would not go anywhere, you're just not aware of it as it happens too fast. I explain here: ruclips.net/video/JYFWQJCeN5c/видео.html
Apparently Sampras an Federer both hit all serves whit the same toss.., slice, flat and kick serve, I would prefer to learn that toss.., would you know what that toss is?
Only flat and slice can be hit from the same toss, topspin serve is impossible from the same contact. See this: ruclips.net/video/-X_hAHP_N-w/видео.html Also, no one tries to disguise a second serve type, it's too risky. I will soon make a video on that topic, stay tuned or even better, subscribe! ;)
What I love about your videos is that you don't create your videos as to what others may want to see, or what may work better in the algorithm, you simply teach within yourself and what you know is true.
I'm not certain if I expressed myself well here but I appreciate your genuineness.
This hands down is the best slice serve video in all of youtube.
I'm new to tennis. I never understood why someone didn't do this sort of video earlier to show the seemingly small difference in angle between the slice, flat, and topspin serves. This is great. Congrats in using technology to really help understand the nuances.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi, I've been a uspta teaching pro / technical development coach for 37 years. This is excellent video work and accurate analysis. Great job! Would have been interesting to see the face angle difference if serving to the same target though. Emphasis then might have to have been a little bit more on the swing path, slightly more left to right on the way up to, and through contact to add the spin, not relying primarily on the face angle difference.
Thank you for the feedback, Bob! So if I understand correctly you would like to see a comparison between a flat and slice serve and in both cases going for the same target? Down the T or out wide?
@@feeltennis Hi again, thanks for your reply. I was just thinking it might be more representative and interesting to see (at least for technique nuts like us), in that the face angle at contact mainly determines the target direction. So whether a flat or spin serve, the face angle is probably even closer to the same if the target were the same. I don't know that it's worth producing another video just for that though! I'm sure many people appreciate the time and work you put into these. So, thank you for that. I have shared these with many of my students.
Yes, the angle change would be even smaller then in the above examples. I'll try and include something on that topic when I make a video on how to disguise the serve...
These videos are amazing! 💯 I have a quick question, if you wanted to slice down the T, would you change your body position, toss, or change your swing path? Thanks so much!
I would not change anything consciously, I would just aim. In slow motion analysis we could see some minute difference but again, this would not happen consciously.
I think the only possible way to do a slice serve down the T in deuce court is to serve from far right, almost near the tram line. May be its an option in doubles
On the side view we can see the biggest difference of them all, which is where the ball is hit. For the slice, the ball is mostly side-by-side with his head, on the flat serve the ball is right in front of him. That makes a huge difference along with the angle of the racquet! Pretty cool to see the minor details!
This is the first time on RUclips represented such kind of thorough comparison analisys.
Tomas, I see this sort of analysis nowhere else. In the last few weeks, my serve has improved dramatically thanks to your insightful instruction. Thank you, my friend!
Serve slower means more spin with control and shorter. Stand a meter or two away from the service line to get more angle. They know it's coming, but often the drag is so far out it doesn't matter. Really effective in doubles.
Amazing videos. Seems like only about 5 degrees difference between these two serves. The opponent cannot see any difference in the swingpath.
Great content. Thank you Santa Tomaz.
With such a small amount of difference, would it not be easier to have a slightly adjusted grip, but the same swing??
No, as soon as we change the grip we "confuse" our brain since it now needs to change the swing path. One could argue that this could be learned at childhood and that's possible but as an adult recreational tennis player you will just confuse yourself by trying to slightly change grips.
Hi Tomaz, as always i’m enjoying your videos. Just a question on the point of contact for the slice on the ball, on a clock face would you recomend 1 or 2oclock? Also, i think you said (when practising) if the ball goes too much to the left, throw your racket more to the right? Thanks Sean
Good video. For slice serves only - I notice that some players and coaches use either half pronation or full pronation, (i.e., from supination all the way around to pronation). I would tend to the latter not the former - full pronation. Would it not be confusing to just use the half pronation (makes it confusing for the player) for the slice and not the full pronation so compatitors would know what serve you are hitting? Discuss.
Great video!
Your analysis is amazing!!! Thank you so much!
I don't know why but I find it easier to hit a slice when I don't pronate. Some people teach it that way, and you can in fact hit it that way. I find that when I pronate I tend to hit the ball faster but when I don't pronate I tend to create more spin and can hit a more severe angle, although the ball is much slower
Love the way you teach the slice serve coach! The famous Patrick M is a carve around the side of the ball, don't agree with that teaching method.
Like I mention in the video, how we teach and visualize is different from what really happens. So while an instruction to "carve around the ball" can help the player hit a better slice serve, if we analyze that serve in slow motion we'll see that no such carving takes place. ;)
Tomaz, Tilden wrote a book on "Spin" - you could author a book on "Angles." Stop action, slow motion and tellestrator tools painted a clear picture for me. Thanks.
May I ask what software program you use to create your tennis "magic?"
I am using OnForm, note that it works only on Apple devices: www.onform.com/. I do plan to write a book on tactics and the mental game at some point but I am not ready yet...
TQVM. It was a very good presentation.
Thank you. That cleared up the timing of the pronation in slice vs flat.
Thanks for this vid, I've been overdoing the angle and just wondering how to correct it.
so basically a slice serve with pronation is a flat serve that is hit off centered? The right side of the ball if going wide to the deuce. 1 o clock toss and swings more to the right and then around
Seems the only difference between flat and slice is later pronation in the slice serve.
I salute your presentation! Thanks!
Hello, I'm from Argentina, I like the images in your videos, although I don't understand a word of the language, even if nothing else, could you configure it to be able to translate with subtitles?
Hi, all my videos are enabled for subtitles. It must be something on the RUclips's side that doesn't allow you subtitles. Are you able to see Spanish subtitles on other tennis videos from other channels?
Great explanation, many thanks 🙏
In the end, it is the ball position which determines type of sever: straight-up for flat, slight right for slice, slight left for kick. Very well explained, subscribed.
Thank you
Amazing video. Your explanation luminates how little the physical differences are among three type of serves, and I realized that we shouldn't force exaggerated movements to wrap around or roll up the balls.
The serve motion is so complex but your analysis brings it to the point. I could watch your videos over and over again.
Although I have always been good at throwing balls or javelin my tennis serve is weak. But your explanations motivate me to keep trying and improving because it is good mental training at the same time 😉
congratulations, best video I've ever seen about types of loot 👍
Very true...
wow amazing video that finally explained the differences clearly
I've been wondering if I'm hitting my slice correctly or doing a “sakellaridi” since I wrote an article about Sapfo's serve. For sure, when I think about pronation just before serving, I'm gonna hit almost flat or slightly mishit. I have no choice but to film it. What surprises me the most is maybe the small difference in the racquet path whereas it's quite big for the kick serve - if I'm not mistaken. Great video as usual.
You should consider the fact that your slice and flat serves are not aimed at the same location (flat is aimed down the t and slice is aimed wide) resulting in a misleading comparison. Its movement of the racket that imparts spin on the ball and the angle of the face that determines the trajectory of the ball. If both serves were aimed at the same spot, there would be no difference in the angle of the racket at contact with the ball, the only difference would be the movement of the racket before and after contact.
Nope, because if I aimed down the T, the flat serve would "flat" at 90 degrees on the back side of the ball (like it is in the video) and the slice serve while theoretically possible would be very uncomfortable to hit by aligning the face of the racket exactly same flat 90 degrees on the back side of the ball. Even if I serve slice down the T, there will be racket angle at contact different from flat.
Lol we trajectory the ball by wholebody position at contact not only using the arm to control the racket face.
Thanks this was excellent. I have much better understanding now.
I would love to see an explanation and video (slow motion) of the ball crossing the net for each type of serve. Show the distance it has to clear. I assume flat has smallest clearance?
This is what I look for. Awesome video to understand flat vs slice serve. Thanks so much
I'm amazed how little a difference there is cuz it really feels like I am hitting the ball way on the right hand side and I guess I'm not on the slice.
😀🤩🙏
you are such a good teacher, thanks for your investment
This is such an amazing lesson. Thank you so much coach. Appreciate you tons. ✨✨
Really helpful video - thanks!!
Very good video, thanks!
Kind of puts to bed a couple of things:
1. The brush across the back of the ball theory
2. The hit the top right of the ball at 1 or 2 o'clock theory
You want to talk about tiny angles making huge differences in a sport. Take a look at golf! :)
Thanks for sharing! Yes, sports where we have to hit the ball are the most difficult sports in terms of controlling the outcome (tennis, golf, cricket, baseball, volleyball, soccer...) followed by sports where we throw the ball (football quarterback, handball, basketball...).
Point 17.27 - a revelation!
Great video just wondering if your knuckle is on the second bevel and heel pad on the same bevel
Yes, it is
My slice serve is going long.
Help me
I thought too that the angle is way bigger
Thank you very much for this video that required lot of work. It´s been extremely helpful.
Much appreciated!
As a visual learner, this video has been incredibly enlightening and helpful. THANK YOU for all the hard work (and insights) you put in its production.
You're very welcome!
This is one of the best tennis videos one can watch. The video, analysis, and explanation are stellar and makes it easy to understand the differences between the different serves. Thanks Tomaz'.
Thank you for the wonderful feedback!
It’s a really good video!
I'm always surprised when slice is taught with pronation. Seems to me more natural not to pronate, in order to scoop the ball
Yes, as I mentioned slice serve should not be taught with pronation. Hitting on the side of the ball at 3 o'clock to exaggerate the slice and other tips work well. It's just that in reality we don't ever hit anywhere close to 3 o'clock. This is important for a coach to know. These are the typical drills: ruclips.net/video/l0dqozevSEk/видео.html. Secondly, I guarantee you that everyone pronates to some degree otherwise the ball would not go anywhere, you're just not aware of it as it happens too fast. I explain here: ruclips.net/video/JYFWQJCeN5c/видео.html
Thanks!
Very much appreciated!
Very excellent explanation
best video ever
Apparently Sampras an Federer both hit all serves whit the same toss.., slice, flat and kick serve, I would prefer to learn that toss.., would you know what that toss is?
Only flat and slice can be hit from the same toss, topspin serve is impossible from the same contact. See this: ruclips.net/video/-X_hAHP_N-w/видео.html Also, no one tries to disguise a second serve type, it's too risky. I will soon make a video on that topic, stay tuned or even better, subscribe! ;)
Thank you! I am subscribed 🙂
like
Isner has a better serve.
Thankssss a lottttt