An Unstoppable Force | How Electric Vehicles Threaten Legacy Car Makers
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- If legacy car makers are on track, why have they not delivered on their promises-made in 2017, 2019, and 2020-to beat Tesla by 2025? Can they ever beat Tesla? Is there any way out for them other than extinction?
Chapters:
00:21 The Titanic is sinking - what do you do?
00:54 Ice Car Factories
01:40. Global Stop Oil Protests
01:55 Air Pollution
02:35. Ice Cars Have Run Out Of Ideas
03:30 Ice Car Prices Record High
04:36. EV Growth Exponential
05:04 Ice Car Sales Declining From 2016 Peak
05:22 Average age of Used Ice Car now record high
05:36 Ice Car Sales are to Dealers not Customers
05:52 Ice Car Growth animation last 20 Years
06:32 Make What Customers Want
08:02 Ice Cars No Longer Offer What We Want
08:12 We Want Different Exciting Cars
08:37 Stellantis CEO in Denial
10:19 The Osborne Effect
11:24 Make an EV Better than ICE
11:57 Vauxhall Astra ICE £26k vs EV £39k
13:50 Citroen ICE C4 £22k vs EV £32k
14:39 Peugeot ICE 208 £20k vs EV £32k
15:17 ICE CEO Head in Sand
15:46 We expect more at these High Prices
16:09 Same Old Same Old
17:04 Where Did CEOs go Wrong?
18:12 EVs Make Perfect Sense for a Sufficient Number to Succeed
18:23 EVs are here to Stay
18:36 Maybe Drones?
18:47 Legacy car makers do not make competitive EVs at a profit
19:41 New ICE car Ban in 2030 No Longer Needed
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#ev #cars #ice
As usual, excellent article. While doing my O.U. degree in Environmental Studies, 20 years ago, I was given the answer to the question 'Why aren't car manufacturers developing battery cars?' 'After OPEC strangulation of oil supplies in early '70s, the oil and car industries did a deal. The former would ensure a stable market for petroleum and the latter would not develop any alternative power trains'. It worked, until Musk and the Chinese kicked over the house of cards.
Perceptive as usual Dave.
Amazing how none of the mainstream media pundits have seen this.
Hi Bill, the "new" news is trolling the internet for viral scare stories and reprinting them, quick, easy, effective and gets loads of attention
I remember the early 80's. Visiting the big trade fair Hannover Messe (later CeBit) here in Germany the first Texas Instruments Ti80 home computer and others arrived. All the type writer companies laughed at them "we have electric typewriters, they are better". One year later more home computers and the old guard "we now have an LCD display with 24 characters, you can do text blocks, computers have no chance". One year later the old typewriter companies were gone and dead. Bought my first EV (used) in 2015, a simple small SmartED. Took me 3 days to understand that I will never drive an ICE car and all pistons engines are dead. A SmartED killed my Audi V8 and ICE cars in general.
Great video Dave. The disruption that is coming will affect far more than just the legacy automakers. The whole infrastructure around ICE cars is threatened; local filling stations replaced by home/ destination charging; work for local garages drying up due to the reduced maintenance of BEV’s compared to ICE; loss of fuel duty revenue to the government. No wonder they are kicking back so hard with the FUD and misinformation.
Dave, I compared ICE to EV this morning. An ICE SUV in Nova Scotia will cost my revivifier ~$436/month (loan/lease) vs Tesla Model Y at ~$800/month. Tesla saves ~$350/month in gasoline (electricity is < $0.17/kWh). So the difference is $14/month. Yet, Tesla has the best of everything, and I'll not pay for new brakes or oil changes, etc. Tesla will be worth more than ICE in 3 years. I used to have no brain. But even I can see that EV wins EVery time.
Lol. I love to see the drugs kicking in
@@rambleon3698it dose matter what you or I or anyone else thinks. When new ICE cars get baned (2030-2035 depending on where you live) you will have no choise. Yes some will pay to keep old ICE cars on the road for a few years. But come 2040 you will find it hard to get the fuel , and parts and by say 2050 having ANY tailpipe emissions atall will fail your MOT....
If the legacy car makers are/were so good at making ICE cars, why have so many of them got such big debts? Tesla knew from the start that getting to mass production was going to be expensive, hence the Tesla Secret Master Plan (that they published early on). The legacy guys now face the same issue, but with an existing large cost base and apparently, significant debt to start off with. Makes you wonder how good their highly paid business leaders were at actually running businesses.
Yes, looking at how these "successful car companies" built up huge debts would be interesting.
Dave, you have tipped out such a can of worms! It's going to take several cans to recover them all! Firstly I will answer with my original production engineering hat on. ICE cars have become very complex in the last sixty years in order to compensate for their inherent deficiencies. Injection systems, electronics, turbos, multi-speed transmissions etc all to reduce fuel consumption and get fewer emissions. The result is that the component count in a modern ICE car is many times greater than an equivalent car of sixty years ago. Any production engineer will tell you that the cost of any product is driven primarily by the component count.
Contrast an ICE car with a BEV. A BEV has an electric motor and a single-speed transmission - very few moving parts and nothing reciprocating. Whereas an ICE car has thousands of parts in its engine and transmission, lots of them moving , some reciprocating and most operating at elevated temperatures. This means that a) BEV cars will last longer than ICE cars and b) they will be significantly cheaper to produce simply due to the reduced component count.
The current trend of pricing converted ICE cars at c.£10K more than the original is simply to reflect the short-term development costs. Personally I would'nt be seen dead in a BEV with a fake grill!
I agree with 99% of what you say, as an engineer myself. But some of us have trouble getting over the bland-looking fronts and scandanavian-sauna-like interiors of the most popular BEVs. Also, convincing the wife can be problematic. She prefers things to be more traditional, automotively speaking.
So we were looking at getting a Model Y, but she hates the look of all Teslas. So, as current BMW 4 series owners, the i4 fits the bill very well. Yes, it has a fake grille, but I can get over that, as the rest of the design of the car is excellent. The Drag coefficient is only one point behind a model 3, and Bjorn Nyland can certify that it is very efficient when campared to a model 3 too, considering it's an shared platform with ICE. I hope BMW fair well in this battle, as I really like the i4.
Back around 2002 I bought a 1.8T Petrol Audi A3, after 14 years I part-ex for a 2012 2.0TFSI Audi A4. I really like Audis and wanted to change it for another Audi. If Audi made an A3, A4 or A5 as a good BEV I would have been back to Audi - BUT THEY DONT. Most ICE companies seem totally oblivious about what people want.Personally there are very few BEVs being made that DONT look 'frickin hideous' (cough, cough - Hyundai, VW ID-3, etc). So now - I have a 2023 Tesla model 3 on my drive - and I havent looked back since.
Volkswagen and Audi have essentially given up developing their own EV platforms. The VAG group has conceded that their platforms are manifestly uncompetitive. As a consequence, VAG has partnered with Chinese EV marques in an effort to bring to market new cars which are credible and compelling in the marketplace. The 2020s will be very difficult years indeed for VAG. The simple reality is that VAG will continue to lose market share and profits on a regional and global level, which will never be regained. 🇩🇪 🇨🇳
EVs can be attractive where the cost of petrol is astronomical. Here in the US the EV craze has just about run its course. Tesla has steep discounts on new vehicles but domestic sales remain stagnant, resale value of EV's has plummeted off a cliff. The vast majority of Americans find EVs impractical and prefer the tried and true.
I think you are absolutely spot on, Legacy thought it would be easy as they thought, as they thought, in their arrogance, that no one could come along and make cars more profitably than they could, they also still think they could swap to EV's simply.
The problem is they dont understand the mountain they have to climb in the supply chain and also software development
Massive understatement
I think it is a very simple deduction here; I have an EV and a few ICE cars, short trips are great in the EV, but if I have go somewhere a greater distance away with any sort of load on a time schedule, ICE at the moment is the only way I can do it. I looked at doing a journey the other day, and asked google maps to show me possible charging points along the way, there were none. Electric was where the car started, and it will be the end for sure. All my ICE cars are getting to that 20 year mark, their range is mostly the same, so what is the range of a 20 year old EV? The key question here is transport, and how the AVERAGE person can exist with it, this really is how we evolve from one platform to another while maintaining our preferred lifestyle... Thanks for making me think on this, I'm sure I will ponder on this for quite some time on this...
Opposite for me, I have an EV and my wife has ICE. Mine is used for long and short, works for us.
Excellent video Dave. The ICE crowd are getting increasingly desperate now. I'm hearing a lot about collapsing multi-storey car parks and bridges, clouds of polluting tyre dust, increased car sickness if you travel in an EV, freezing to death in Winter if you are unlucky enough to get stuck in traffic, plus countless other instances of silly hysteria, nonsense and plain straightforward billhooks.
Should I sell up, Brian, I'm getting worried hee hee!
@@davetakesitonYou should, in less than five years will fabulous supergreen car will be at junkyard.
BimmerN53
Hi Dave, always great to hear your views.
Concerning the price of new legacy EVs, unlike Tesla, the price you see (the RRP) is not the price you pay.
Brand new Vauxhall Astra electric on Autotrader under £30k, a£10k saving. This is the same with virtually all legacy cars.
New Vauxhall Corsa electric under £20k,
New Peugeot 208 electrtic under £20k, 11 grand off.
Brand new Ford Mustang mach E under £40k 11 grand off.
I could go on. If people are prepared to do even a 2 minute search they will find massive discounts on most.
Please stop quoting the RRP when quoting their costs to make your point because none of the legacy companies sell at that price, they all have massive discounts and are much more competitive against the likes of Tesla, BYD, Polestar and other EV only companies.
They may not be as good, that's a different issue but they are definitely competitive on price these days.
An excellent insight into our current motoring dilemma. Where lies the answer?
Accept the reality and move forwards at full speed
Thanks, watched to the end, and you kept my interest.
Loved the graphic showing the global change in new car sales.
I think we have now reached tipping point, yes converted ICE cars to EV are so far behind the dedicated platforms that Tesla, Kia,Hyundai etc have developed. I am surprised anyone still buys a PHEV, they must be the first to fail.
My own reckoning is that Tesla will continue to turn the price screws as they lower costs and boost production. It’s going to make the legacy companies gesture, then scream, then die. There’s no way that EV Astra can compete against the cheaper standard range model 3. They are in completely different leagues in terms of size, and performance.
The question is how much bad money is going to flow from government to these dying companies to try and prop them up? Government would be better encouraging businesses with new technologies to invest in the areas and workforce left behind by the old companies when they shut down.
Well summed up, Dave. Excellent comparisons and logical assumptions. Thank you. Cheers.
Short reply! Nailed it!
The longer version; is a very illustrative description of the massive disruption going on in the car manufacturing industry, maybe another going on in the electrical power industry, as well as Tesla, is positioning itself there too and their installation of battery power stations is growing even faster than their car production.
Wow, great data and facts. Thx
This is a top 10 Tesla video. I will share with the Tesla influencers
Thank you, Dave, well done. I'm late but have also studied this matter including an article some time ago on the "Osborne effect".
The mfrs are doing their best to straddle the death of IC and the adoption of EV's. In 2019 EU gas sales share collapsed, with a good portion being the decline of diesel, but, the EU market is well into the Osborne effect. The first is the abandonment of the "legacy" product. Then, as time passes the adoption of the new. Your analysis on pricing is correct, Chevrolet came out with the "base" or contractor model of the EV Silverado pickup truck. Rubber seats, rubber floors, steel wheels....$79,000. They quite clearly do not want to sell very many. Dodge (Stellantis) will be the last of the big three to offer and electric half ton pickup perhaps next year. What the mfrs have doe in to introduce electric models to calm their shareholders, price them too high and then state the consumers don't want them (as you have observed). In the US we have about 18 EV models in the $45,000 to $60,000 range as all the mfrs follow each other around in the strategy of overpricing.
Osborne effect has impacted the half ton pickup market which is down 20% since 2019. Why, too many new half ton pickup announcements and intros. You can't plug a gas pickup into your house and run the appliances off the battery. An electric pickup has a big Frunk and you can plug in your tools and the like. Gas pickups use $3,000 to $4,000 worth of gas a year. and now for the kicker....gas pickups will depreciate at a much higher rate than an EV pickup as demand for gas pickups has already begun to decline. How do I know this?
EU gas new vehicle sales down 30% from 2019
China new gas vehicle sales down 26% from 2019
US new gas vehicle sales down 13% since 2019
The mfrs know these numbers as well as anyone and their tactic? Charge $42,000 for a $29,000 car.
Hello Dave.. This is not quite the Osborne effect but it’s an example of the we know our customers style of management..Back in the 60s Armstrong were a brand of shock absorber that advertised a recommended life of 10,000 miles. Along came Koni whe advertised their 100,000 miles shock absorbers .That was the end of Armstrong..
Two words - WELL SAID!
Always interesting videos. You think the same way as me. I'm so glad I went over to an EV a couple of weeks ago (MG4 Trophy), love it. Just wish I could get an electric van for work. The mileage is terrible on them at present. Hoping China comes out with something fantastic soon !
It's interesting to see how oil companies are trying to make waves saying EVs are a bad idea. I couldn't disagree more. Your video recently on how Shell are acting sealed the deal for me to purchase my first EV.
#BoycottShell
Great video. I like the in depth, no-nonsense approach. Really - it's simple. And mathematically, impossible. An ICE vehicle = small profit. An EV = huge loss. Sell more EVs, and your ICE sales go down = even more loss. You either (1) deal with the continued loss, and "hope" that eventually the economies of scale kick in with EVs, (2) produce LESS EVs, to stem the losses ( reducing you chances in the future) , (3) reduce the size of the business (reduce staff, well-paid executives, factories etc.) or (4) go bust....I think we will see all 4 scenarios fairly soon...and various interested parties (Lending Banks, the Unions in the States, dealerships in the States, investors) will no doubt have a lot to say about the choice of these options...
If we drive EVs, we should be able to drive faster than the "50mph to reduce pollution" limits.
That would be a fun court case!
I would like to add: also allowed to use run over oil activists 😂
@@mrg-ghx8052 I'm sure I saw a video of JSO activists where one said to let the Tesla through.
Pretty hard to argue against that on their part really.
@@djtaylorutube I must have missed that one.
I often cite Switzerland which did exactly that. ANPR sorts out the EVs from the tortoises.
@@davetakesiton I didn't know, now you're telling me I could have put my foot down?! 🤣
The kicker for homeowners is that solar and batteries, while initially expensive, will generally pay for themselves in seven years or less. Charge an EV at home, and you fuel your car for free. ICE can’t compete with this.
Tell free to the anti-EV brigade and they don’t understand, preferring to queue up and pay £90 to fill the tank. Weird
@@davetakesitonAgreed 100%, but the trade off is just not worth the Risk, the Repair costs, the Depreciation, the Range and functionality. Sorry the electricity @ 51 C Per Kilowatt is Not Free,nor the home, nor the garage and upgraded power panel to the house etc. I don’t care how good the car is They just aren’t any better than the Ice car I have now that is paid off! They trade offs to drive an EV is just not worth it.
I used to be a big fan of Citroen, however since they were taken over by Stellantis they stopped building individual quirky cars, and their electric line up is the same as all the other Stellantis brands and just completely sh1t. This is why I am a Tesla driver now!
Keeping EV prices high helps China profitably enter the UK market. There is so much headroom that once they are in they can instantly undercut the legacy makers and wipe the floor with them. To survive legacy should have been researching and setting up pilot production roughly five years ago. I call too late for most of them already.
Very informative as always dave got my mg4 and swapto intelligent octopus at start of july my electricity bill is what i spent on petrol in a month !
Great story Brian, I lost my diesel bill totally, switched suppliers and find that my overall electric bill is nearly the same as most of my family and friends without an EV. Ignoring Superchargers, which I need, that's pretty much free motoring, Dave
Great points again and it very much shows that the legacy car makers do not want to sell EV's as they are overpriced to justify the "Our customers prefer the petrol/diesel version of our cars, so we will keep producing them."
The companies that have been making BEV's for past 10 years now fully understand what works and can sell them and at cheaper prices. Car prices in general have risen but we do need to clse that gap. The new Astra priced at say top of the range + 3k could be sold. I have noticed many BEV's do have the tech that is only found in the top models, hence that price range. BEV's are only sold at one level and maybe the lower spec EV's are needed.
I agree, but you and I might look deeper into cars than an average man off the street, who looks at window prices. Several times I state "for a comparable model". I wish more people looked at what they are actually buying
What you do is license all of Tesla's technology and start building cars with "Tesla Inside".
Also Legacy have the massive problem with Unions stopping them from changing
Massive? It’s absolutely huge
Economic survival depends on EVs not succeeding. The energy industry. Mechanics. Auto parts. Gas stations. Fuel delivery etc not just the workers building the vehicles. Last time i checked the economy especially here in industrial midwest cannot survive that especially after losing so many jobs to mexico and china the past 2 decades
So agree, it not Titania but the Fremantle HWY.
Yes, I did realise that there would probably be no EVs on the Titanic and it was ice (not ICE cars) that caused it to sink
Read "The Innovator's Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen.
We are on the verge (worldwide) of having access to sub-$US 30K EVs with ranges over 275 miles / 443 km. It should happen in the next 18 months. At the same time, companies are going full-speed into adding charging infrastructure/stations across the northern hemisphere (not sure about the southern hemisphere). People with specific needs for vehicles NOT currently served by available EV models can be forgiven for sticking with ICE models. By sometime in 2025, 2026 at latest, this will no longer be the case in most countries. I strongly believe a great reckoning is about occur with ALL of the large ICE manufacturers. Most, perhaps ALL, will not survive without very large govt bailouts. The auto/truck industry will be completely different by 2030 than it is today, with EVs leading sales in almost all categories. And don't get me started on what will happen when autonomous vehicles hit mainstream availability. The next 7 years (and the previous 7 years, due mainly to Tesla) are the most consequential CHANGE years we will ever see, IMHO.
The dominoes are leaning hard, who will be the first ones to fall???
I guess GM followed closely by Stellantis, then Toyota. Check back in a year or two.
Absolutely spot on Dave. Thank you so much. However, I do take issue with what you've said re constraints on batteries from the manufacturers. As far as I am aware, CATL and BYD have had to reduce output because of over supply. Therefore, these two suppliers - the largest in the World, have no problems with being able to supply their batteries to whomever wants to use them. I have two EVs, a BYD Atto 3 and a Tesla Model Y and both vehicles are sensational in their respective categories. Anyway, a delight to listen your exemplary analysis of the situation. Anyone not behind a BEV future - even those thinking hydrogen is somehow involved in transportation - are truly stupid. There's no other word for it. In the words of Sam Evans, the Electric Viking, all that it is needed to make a BEV is a motor or two, a large traction battery and a computer to link it all together. Easy as.
Yes, that’s the interpretation I have heard, however, Tesla is CATL’s largest customer by far and Elon Musk has stated he is battery constrained. That’s a contradiction. Yes 4680 batteries are delayed, but Semi, Y and Megapacks all can use 2170 which CATL has in abundance. Why doesn’t Tesla just buy ship loads? I believe there is more to the story, maybe another video, Dave
Sorry Dave, but the story of battery constraints appears to be a BS started by Toyota. There is still massive battery capacity within the marketplace. CATL, has had to SLOW production because the Legacy Auto are NOT ordering the volume that CATL planned for.
Yes, Mika some people are saying this, but I'm not sure I agree. Tesla is CATL's biggest customer and Tesla has stated that they are battery constrained. Possible proof are the delays on Semi, Cybertruck and huge waiting lists for Megapacks. And I know some delay is due to 4680s but the initial Semis and all Megapacks have 2170s fitted. Those are supposed to be available off the shelf? BTW my understanding is that Toyota wasn't saying there are not enough batteries today, they do claim there are not enough resources in the world to convert all cars to EV so stop now. There is something going on but I'm not convinced there are excess batteries everywhere. I suspect there is a good story here, thanks for your input, Dave
@davetakesiton I agree that there is indeed another story or two there. One possible constraint for Tesla is America Only. As they are receiving money from the government for everything American made. So I think it is American restraints for American batteries. The rest of the world are using CATL, LG Chem etc
@davetakesiton Certainly one thing for sure, is Tesla know what they are up to and what speed they are happy to grow. Whilst Legacy is still believing they can fob off the 2030 and 2035 deadlines. The sad part is whilst they are busy fobbing off, the Titanic is still sinking.
Toyota is spot on. Lithium ion chemistry is not the battery tech that it should be. Maybe in the future there will be an improved battery chemistry tech. There was a tremendous EV car take up initially due to mostly company car drivers and the Government various schemes to insensitive the companies into supplying EV cars to their employees. Now three years down the line there is a big glut of second hand company EV cars that are clogging up for-courts as so few people want them.
Hope you're wrong!
Having an ev will drastically reduce my quality of life.
No more weekends caving, climbing, kayaking or mountaineering 😢
Sorry to hear you're giving up all that. I just spent a great week with my Tesla in the depths of West Yorkshire National Park climbing, walking, exploring.
@@davetakesiton hopefully got a few years before the rich take the world from the poor.......
EV's are such a good idea for Europe. ICE cars are a good idea for Australia, USA and Africa....for example. I think that it's all got to with distances. Also, I wish that they can use no oil for the manufacture, mining of steel, lithium, rare earth materials, of all , trucks, boats, planes, military vehicles and cars. We should find other ways of producing everything we need. Can't we just clasp our arms tightly on our sides and fly around on earth's magnetic fields?
Great video. However, you left out perhaps the greatest legacy detractor. Legacy's true handicap. Dealers. Especially in the massive market of the US. Being forced to sell their vehicles only to dealers at the invoice price (usually 25% lower than the MSRP) who then mark them up even further than even MSRP. Think about it. 25% of their profits are going straight to a middleman. They will never compete with Tesla or Rivian with dealers in their way.
Yes, I agree, amazing isn't it. Everything is going online yet dealers in the US are protected by law, forcing you to go there and haggle.
Add in the Union, UAW, pay rise 25% ....and the cliff is coming ever closer....BTW, someone spotted that Shawn Fain takes over $1/2 million for his role as UAW president. I don't what this in £££, but it isn't peanuts... (also average pay for UAW workers will be around $100 an hour - putting many of them into the top 10% of earners in the States - is a car worker's job classed as "skilled" ? )
How the legacy gasoline car-makers can save themselves: Lobby the government for a huge bail-out from tax-payers and crush innovative electric car-makers under tons of untenable new manufacturing regulations specifically targeting electric cars. Problem solved!
Geopolitics may be the saviour of the big car giants. Invasion of Taiwan will be the perfect excuse to impose sanctions on cars made in PRC..
You fail to mention tyre life, an EV will use tyres three times more quickly than ICE vehicles, thus adding extra running costs, and this will be on top of the charge by mile tax that will eventually be imposed on EV's.
Not my experience at all. I think yo have been the victim of a hoaxer or prankster. I just replaced mine and the video of that will be out next week with prices and miles. My tyre wear is no different to my previous Citroen C4 Grande Picasso diesel. Re tax per mile, you are already paying this in your road tax, we don't and I haven't for the last 4 years.
No the opposite is true. Driving an Ev I have to remember to press the brakes now and again. Regen does all the braking which reduces tyre wear. You have been duped.
It would seem that some legacy manufacturers haven't caught on to the the neccesity of careful design. I read comment from a Kia Owner that the cost of a battery swap on his EV, under warranty, was over $40k including a massive amount of labour to get to the failed battery. The moral is that you can't just hide a battery pack away in the guts of a car . Nissan seem to have got it right with the LEAF, the battery can be dropped out in a couple of hours and is simple to replace.
There is more to a BEV than just stuffing a battery under the rear seats.
As for the future, I wonder what will happen when full self driving vehicles become both legally and socially accepted. How will changes in ownership models affect the big companies.
Yes. There are RUclips videos of battery mods and refurbishments being carried out on Leafs (Leaves?) In one video, shot in the UK, the Leaf battery was out inside 20 minutes.....
You "have read" a lie written by fraudsters paid by ARAMCO. You do know that Tesla has an 8-year battery warranty? You do know that battery costs have declined 90% in a decade - and costs continually decrease? You do know that Lithium ion batteries don't die, but are being re-used when the car dies first? You have read the Impact Report?
Agree, and my 2016 Model S was designed for battery swap stations as well as Superchargers
I think my i4 battery is bolted up from underneath. Makes sense to design them this way.
I think China will take a bigger part of ev market.The European EVs will reduce in price similar to the cuts in Tesla cars until fossil sells dry up
Dave, you can refer to "Legacy auto makers" simply as "LEGAs'. You're welcome.
Like it thanks
Let’s see what happens by the end of 2024. There will be approximately 250,000 cars released to the secondhand market by then as company finance deals come to the end. Currently we are 1/2 way through the cars released from the 2020 , 60,000 cars if you look at Auto-trader 16,000 of these cars are available for sale and the number increases every week. If BEVs don’t sell the PCP rates will increase to cover the depreciation costs.
I absolutely welcome those 250,000 used EVs coming onto the market, what a huge boost to those who can't afford a brand new EV. Being able to pick up a low mileage Model 3 or Y at used premium car prices would be fantastic. Bring it on
@@davetakesiton anyone that’s got one today and is looking to sell better hurry up your car may be worthless by the end of 24. The current grid emmits 250g of Co2 per KWh but the time you add in the transfer, conversion and charging losses , the CO2 per kWh delivered to the road is over 100g per mile more than a modern petrol. Fields of EVs no Co2 benefit an environmental disaster.
all the experts and governments seem to disagree, I think I'll go with them@@tobycolin6271
@@davetakesiton
Dave even you can do maths 250 g of Co2 / 4 miles per Kw gives a figure of 62.25 g of Co2. This assumes no transmission losses in the grid , perfect unity power factor, no HV to LV losses, zero AC to DC charger losses, perfect battery charging conditions , 100 battery to road motor conversions.
If you look around even in a perfectly balanced grid which is unlikely as green energy input is not phase consistent and the increased loads of charging unbalance the grid the 62.5 g of CO2 figure easily doubles to 120g of CO2 for a BEV and in an in efficient 3mile per kW BEV the figure goes out to 150g of CO2 per mile which is a similar figure to Diesels.
here’s another little sales observations
66.000 EVs sold in 2020 that are now available for resale
30,000 sold 16,000 available for purchase , 20,000 to come on to the market at current adoption rates they’ll be 23,000 EVs unsold at the end of the year. If the trend stays the same they’ll be 83,000 unwanted second hand EVs at the end of 2024.
Only 25% of new BEVs are bought by private individuals which means a lot of the BEVs sold are in desirable larger vehicles. Historically the depreciation on company car vehicles has always been highest due to their size and lack of smsesirability to first time and retired drivers.
@@tobycolin6271 I see you wore the conical hat with a 'D' on it in 'sums' classes.
I agree with your conclusion 100% !! There is no solution for legacy manufacturers in the short term. Many will go bankrupt . It will take a miracle for them to turn this situation around.
that exactly the problem. Legacy Auto would be better banding together and creating a separate company and offer shares like a startup, get money in develop an EV and start selling initially at a loss and then build up to profits. People will buy shares for the future profits. Then the existing legacy auto makers just keep building ICE cars at a lesser and lesser number and then go bankrupt and default on their debts in the process. Unfortunately the stupid govt has set targets for legacy auto to build EVs, reduce emissions, otherwise pay fines so they cant do a separate company. Europe is stuffed as the Chinese will takeover and European car manufacturers will just sell niche luxury electric cars. Cars for normal people will come from BYD and MG. Its happening already.
The real issue is Car dealerships cant last anymore. They will be the real dinosaur. Some of the OEMs will continue on with online sales.
Thanks for an interesting video. I agree with you on most points, with the only quibble being that battery manufacturers are actually not running to full capacity: they could nearly double overnight if needed. However, that doesn't change the problem! My solution is, I am afraid, rather depressing. The legacy ICE manufacturers are in a Catch-22 dilemma.from which most are unlikely to escape. EV production IS cheaper, but only for new EV companies as you excellently describe. China is full of new EV companies, complete with state aid of course, and will dominate unless we see sufficient and successful EV startups in other countries around the world. Even more depressing, for us in the UK, is that such a startup industry supported by the UK government looks incredibly unlikely.. I suspect that for the foreseeable future we will only have the choice of Chinese or Tesla - and even Tesla's cars are increasingly being made in China. EVs ARE much better for the environment and our health, and we will be changing. ICE cars ARE on the way out. We need some very wealthy financiers who are prepared to support skilled entrepreneurs. We live in hope!
I recently bought an MG4 Trophy (280 miles range for £32500), but always bought Renault and Citroens. When you see that it’s the same price as an Astra or Focus and so much cheaper to run, yes they are doomed. Also, cheaper mass market are soon going to use Sodium, Ferrus, Phosphate batteries the price of cheap EVs will drop further. The pure EV makers like Tesla, BYD, Xpeng, Nio, Polestar, Aiways, etc, etc, etc.. are going to move in and clean up.
Whilst I agree with a LOT of what is being said here.... some points are missing. For example Citroën C4 runs a tiny 1.2ltr petrol the Citroën E-C4 runs 150bhp electric engine. Yes the price is MORE but the BEV is far far better to drive. More power and smoother PLUS cheaper to run. The lease on the E-C4 is one of the cheapest in the market. However the point about Stellantis is totally correct, they are trying to price their BEVs at an unattractive price.
Makes me wonder if the old automaker's should club together the capital to accelerate RnD to close the gap and then leap frog off of that, this looks to sort of be what's happening with identical base platforms except none of them seem to be producing a budget model and seem to be jumping on the bells and whistles band wagon.
Really? Mercedes joining with Fiat or Renault? Such a development, from design, new factory construction, robotic equipment installation and setting up of supply chains will take 5 to 10 years. And they can't just produce a budget model until they get into mass production and they can't get into mass production until they offer a budget model. The more expensive they sell their EVs, the less the loss. But they soon might have a choice; go bust or go all in 100% on EVs and hope to make a competitive model that sells well and makes a good profit before the cash runs out.
@@davetakesiton Would it be easier to shutter the brand and shed all contractual commitments, only to sell it's patants plants etc to itself and start a fresh and unencumbered?
The bit missing from your analysis is the requirement to use an EV Fleet & for ICE manufacturers to offset their business by purchasing Carbon Credits.
No private buyer would (with any sense) but new so should lease or buy used.
Have an EQA myself and you're 💯 on the inability to offset purchase price by fuel savings. Even when I could top up free of charge (so 2021...)
My employer only allows small PHEVs or BEVs on fleet.
Do ESG DEI requirements apply to all companies or just large corporations?
If, as alleged, MB lose on each sale of a BEV is this loss smaller than purchasing Carbon Credits?
Tesla has made it to where it is by government subsidies, Carbon Credits, disruptive technology & distribution and marketing.
However, Tesla, on a flat playing field, could not and would not have made it. It would have failed.
We're at the ripping point as used EVs make it to the used market. Next is restrictions on petrol & diesel vehicles, miles driven and even surcharges on the same to make ownership onerous and prohibitive except for the few. (I don't say ICE as Porsche have E-Fuel and there's LPG - I expect luxury manufacturers of limited runs to be allowed special status on their legacy engines, somehow....)
Legacy making EVs just means they need to buy less carbon credits. Not sure of values of loss vs carbon credit. Every fuel you burn produces a waste product. With hydrogen it is water, with all other fuels, even e-fuels and LPG, there is pollution that I would rather not have in my lungs. Limited runs of luxury cars will not happen. Once EVs really take off, the demand for petrol and diesel will plummet and refineries will shut down. The resultant few will have to charge an astronomical price to a dedicated core just to break even.
@@davetakesiton Appreciate the reply. I agree with you re: emissions and pollutants at point of use. Apple will have a big effect and as you explained no one will complain about it being Chinese. Sinophobia soon dissipates with a quality product such as the BMW iX3. BYD vehicles need a little more refining for the Western market but seem to be 90% there. Renault 4 & Citroen Visa were a little odd compared to the market leaders at the time. We'll see how this pans out but I doubt the EU will let this happen without some fight
Don’t underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer
Neither digital cash nor "Full Self Driving" vehicles are constitutional. EVs to date are catastrophic when thermal runaway occurs. Either way, open-deck ships are needed for ocean shipping. To the point of Internal Combustion Vehicles, our oversized Federal Government, Global Corporations, and UNIONS have killed innovation.
Oh, wow, so how do you explain the ship that caught fire off New Jersey where sadly two firemen died, that was packed with used cars and none of them were EVs ?
@@davetakesiton I do not explain away the ICE cars burning. I said, "Either Way, Open Deck ships are needed for ocean shipping." I will add, The arrangement of vehicles on said Open Deck ships, to facilitate the dumping of offending vehicles.
@republic327
"Digital cash not Constitutional"
Wow.
You think "cash" will be a thing in 10 years?
.
Good luck with that open deck shipping when cars arrive at the destination salt blasted and rusting.
EVs *can* be catastrophic *if* a cell fails and *if* the exhaust heats other cells to point of failure.
Certain designs aim to prevent that.
Those catastrophic failures tend to be a gradual escalation, over tens of minutes, rather than a borderline explosive event as with gasoline.
To the point of ICE vehicles, the technology is at the top of its S Curve.
Large effort for incremental gain.
There's no room to innovate..... Unlike EVs.
@@rogerstarkey5390 Yes, sure post vehicles being shipped across an ocean in and on an open deck ship would require a wash-down. Even a measure of disassembly and reassembly would be needed. Or continue as is and lose some lives and a ship or two per year. ...The point about the Digital Dollar is that it is not constitutional, not that it will or that it can be stopped. Neither will God's Judgement be stopped.
I think they'll create subdivisions like Forde and Ford Blue have. Let one go completely bust along with all the debt and start fresh again. All at the tax payers expense due to the loans etc they've never paid back. Either that or go the way of Austin, BSA etc
I agree but this time will the government bail them out?
@@davetakesiton I mean, history would argue yes... Too big to fail and all that.
Although the 70s influx of Japanese motorbikes was allowed to happen. I think similar will happen with the Chinese EVs. We've not really had a disruption like this in the car industry have we? (Born in 1986)
@@leeroychang oh yes we have, when the Japanese cars came in at the end of the 60’s. The British industry laughed at them, then there were tariffs and then they took over. Born in 1964😂
@@devonbikefilms yes, sorry. I mean that era had disruption to all British manufacturing. So do you think we're/Western hemisphere is due another?
Legacy car makers have still got some room as they make better improvements to ethanol enhanced petrol engines (E10 and beyond) and possibly with some hydrogen additives too, getting them under carbon limits(not zero but a lot less polluting). Diesels are definitely dead with many now looking to stop making them. BEV production costs will come down because you will get cross platform and cross manufacturer productions (which happens now such as Nissan and Renault). The world needs more giga factories that can also re tool to newer battery technologies. However we would not be where we are now without Tesla. They broke the ICE market globally. The rest is down to energy suppliers and the charging network, once that is done then the BEV is unstoppable.
Yet VW make the E-Up!, the best, most useful, EV to date. EV should be about mobility transition not company profit.
Agree but what went wrong?
The best shot legacy auto has is to acquire Chinese manufacturers. Like VW did recently. It's their only hope of survival.
A lot has changed in a year every major car maker is moving away from evs as the future maybe hybrid, Ford has lots full of evs that didn't sell even Tesla is on the downturn, than again rational thinking people could see the ev hype. It's one thing to force change if it's practical another if it's a pipe dream.
Spoton
Is that a variant of Croton?
Renault and BMW did build BEVs earlier than others, but then didn't follow up for many years. Better new cars. Sorry i disagree. The Ford Focus RS out about every 7 years improved every generation. But I've now sold my three ICE for two electric and PV.
Nice move
Good video, Dave. Thanks very much. I agree mostly with what you have said. Plus, there are critical business, engineering, and manufacturing processes and culture that the legacy automotive companies lack. As you say, it will take many years for them to transition to these very different processes and culture, while the BEV-only companies are likely to leave them in the dust.
Wow hit them where it hurts, I’ve been saying this for years and couldn’t of put it any better. Wish EV’s could of been the saviour of the British car industry but they were asleep at the wheel. I just kept thinking this must of been the same thing that happened to the British motorcycle industry.
I only managed to get my Leaf with a big discount but have saved £1000 a year in fuel. Why did the Leaf add a large transmission tunnel in the rear it has a flat battery underneath now unsuitable for our growing family I’m sure this is something the Legacy ICE automaker did on purpose and many others do the same.
Too True, Andy, early adopters did use ICE chassis, look at Tesla Roadster, Lotus.
@andyt1048 your the only other person I've seen mention this, I've been saying that for years about the British car industry. The Germans and Japanese should look back at what they did to our Motorbike and Car industry in the UK as now the Chinese are going to do the same to them.
If Ford, GM, Toyota, VW, et al go bust, the car making jobs will all go to China. The politicians in the West will then face the unemployment consequences of banning ICE vehicles. Most of the fossil fuel CO2 in the world comes from making electricity in Asia. BEVs obviously require electricity, so where is the big picture gain in forcing ICE cars off the roads? If you postulate H2, that needs strong heavy storage tanks, which a truck can support but not a small car. Furthermore, you need electricity to "make" H2. After 100 years the ICE car has reached a development pinnacle, so does not change much year on year. What we need is much better public transport, in order to reduce the number of cars. Back to the politicians, who started this upheaval.
Diesel engine is a lot cleaner than petrol
I think that they need to figure out safe mining of the materials first off and find the materials somewhere other than being beholden to the Communist Party of China second period maybe even a different type of battery would be helpful and lighter weight and also ramped up the charging spots and the quality of the charging stations where they actually work all the time and since it takes a while they should be covered like the gas stations are right now that would help and a lot of people can't afford to put the charging in at home like myself for instance cost of insurance needs to come down and build the vehicles to where they can be repaired not like the rivian with one panel going down the whole side and corner where it cost too much to repair if possible still a lot of things need to be resolved before everyone else jumps in
NO, EVs are NOT the same price as ICE models. Like for like they're a least 30% MORE expensive and upwards.
MG4 EV £26k Vauxhall Astra ICE £27k
@@davetakesiton Astra EV, £39,940. That's £12,000 extra for the EV version. An MG4 IS NOT an 'equivalent'.
Most of the people I know don't want a electric car.
Most of the people I know have an EV
@@davetakesiton that's interesting. It tells me all that money I invested into tesla stocks was a good thing.
@@andrewmikov8085Most people I know all refuse to even consider an EV because of the Govt. push and Govt taking away ICE. You get more compliance with rewards Vs the Stick.
You pay at least a third extra for an EV. Only 6700 new EV’s were sold privately in June in the UK. That’s not a success story is it. You can easily run a petrol or diesel for 15 years so why buy an EV.
MG4 EV £26k Vauxhall Astra ICE £27k
who really owns the Korean car industry ?
Hyundai.
Well, the federal government could give legacy auto many billions of dollars. Other than that they go bankrupt.
I prefer they go bankrupt
@@davetakesiton unfortunately, public opinion doesn't matter to our government.
@@andrewmikov8085
"Governments" plural, either side, doesn't matter.
(Note the last GM "assistance" was signed off by Bush)
In America they have the Technology to build cheap electric cars designed from the ground up. The Ampire Battery has twice the Energy of current batteries so straight away a Half sized battery for the same range. They are trying to buy technology from China to give them the Computer Tech and some even realise that the way Tesla builds cars needs to be adopted or they will never make a profit. The US Government is helping a little but the Fossil Fuel Lobby led by companies such as Blackrock have spent the past 40 years killing off or slowing down alternatives. They have even gone to War to ensure Trillions went to killing rather than developing EV's or Renewable Energy....eg:WMD's in Iraq. Currently it's Russia in Ukraine a War that makes no sense but looks to be prolonged to slow down clean Energy adoption and make Oil and Gas a necessary evil. But it has partially blown up in their face as the EU has speeded up their adoption of Clean Energy and become a more United and Larger Military Force through Nato. We see the Fossil Fuel bought Wimpy Countries like the UK , Canada, parts of the USA, Australia still pushing the Polluters Barrel by investing in more Oil and Gas while pretending they are green. Oh and Who wants a War with China the biggest supplier of EV's and Renewable Energy? But ultimately Economics will decide the outcome as EV's in Transport Delivery Services are far cheaper to run as are Cars for Families. Renewable Energy is now cheaper so will replace fossil fuel.
Tesla fast reliable cheap charging network makes them only car to consider if doing long trips, secondhand Tesla still better than any other new manufacturers vehicle
Greedy CEO’s and shareholders wanting to make a quick easy profit whilst keeping their heads in the sand. With the level of debt of individual Legacy auto makers, which is horrendous, lack of production facilities, poor quality and poor technology, I cannot see them surviving at all. I give them a maximum of 5 years. China has gone from the very worst cars to the very best. I’m waiting for the Zeekr 007 (Geely) to come to Europe (I’m in France,), and I’ll probably get that sometime next year. Why would I want an older looking more expensive model with less tech etc made by a Legacy auto. THE ONLY SOLUTION is going to be to do exactly what the Chinese did, and invite the Chinese manufacturers to set up shop here in Europe, the UK and the US. In other words use local workers but on much lower wages. It’s too late for Legacy auto makers. They’re done. I blame governments too. Europe/US/UK have also put billions into the EV market but for some reason I can’t fathom out, when the Chinese do it apparently it’s not fair. The Chinese had a plan, a 10 year plan. We just threw money at Legacy auto makers, who instead of investing in EV’s milked every last drop of blood out of ICE before buggering off to buy their next Villa. They should hang their heads in shame. So here we are. A partial collapse of the West’s industrial base inevitable, endangering security etc etc and we have to go cap in hand to the Chinese. Fantastic.
Great analysis and I fully agree. We rejected EVs initially and have never got close to catching up. Yes legacy is dead and if it’s all of them there’s not enough money to bail them out. Chinese early attempts were pathetic, just like Japanese, but they’re way past that and they make superb cars today
Question: Where does the electricity come from and how are the batteries made? If the electricity comes from coal powerplants then it is not environmentally friendly to drive an electric car and using children's slaves to make the batteries is a shame for the rich countries in the west that ignore these children.
But it doesn't and they don't. UK grid now over 50% renewable, plus Nuclear and do we have any coal fired power stations working? I know you won't so coal provided 1.5% last year. Check it out. Get up to date. Canada, USA, UK and Australia now supply Lithium and Tesla batteries no longer use rare earth metals. Next out of date negative myth?
"Electricity comes from" exactly the same balance as that used to refine the fossil fuels.
It's a moot point.
As Dave says, Coal in the UK is effectively zero.
In the US, there is now more annual Solar and Wind production than coal,(coal 20%)
It took the UK 7 years to reduce from 22.5%(2015) to essentially zero, when there was less production of green systems, less awareness, and the systems were more expensive.
That's the target to aim for.
@@davetakesiton UK 🇬🇧 is only one small island 🏝. 😇😉😅
Legacy car makers should look very closely to Nokia and what happened when new technology came in. With all the protection from the governments, if these companies don't invest to keep up with Asian companies, in the end will go bust.
These protections are just a delay, some time protection for the companies to adapt and become competitive. If they use the protection as a way to keep up the profits and invest in the past, they will be brushed away by BYD, Xiaomi and so man other Chinese companies.
The future is a similar priced, maybe cheaper electric car and hibrids. Both cheaper to run. On a long run, the EV's will be the majority of cars. In 30-40 years from now EVs will be similar to what is smartphone to a mobile phone.
I doubt national governments will allow their major automakers to fail. Too many jobs at stake. The EU will allow Germany to support VW and MB and France to support Renault, Uncle Sam will support Ford and GM, Japan likewise for Toyota, etc.. There may well be more consolidation but politicians will feel they have to support their "flag carrier" automakers through the transition, no matter what the cost to the taxpayer/National Debt
SMART National Governments should see this as a generational, or rather MULTI-GENERATIONAL opportunity.
NEW jobs
NEW technology
The chance to lead in a new industry.
The likely outcome?
The "First world" countries will sit on their hands, not grasp the opportunity.
.
Those previously perceived as "Third world" will grasp this with both hands, use the untapped intelligent, resourceful workforce and actual *leapfrog* those who are complacent.
.
It's going to get messy.
Not here in the U.K. we’re good at stabbing ourselves in the back for short term profit the first past the post walks off with all the booty and when things get sticky and leaves everyone else unemployed.
@@andyt1048 the UK is a financial market. They win. Everyone else loses.
Yes Albert Uncle Sam probably will, but both BMW and VW have just announced moving production to China? How will that go down with the EU and the Unions?
Too true Roger, too many vested interests, too much believing the FUD, we have already missed out. Can we catch up?
First I would say that Toyota are on the right track without EV,s ,second according to reliable sources China is on the verge of collapse and the car industry is finished all bankrupt.If you love EV,s fine but I do think there are other alteratives such as What Toyota is producing.
Toyota, supposedly the largest car manufacturer in the world with not a single model in the UK top ten this year? They must be doing something right
No lifeboat no hope ... like leo they're all going to drown. Maybe a deal with Tesla like ford have done.
Those battery powered 'external combustion vehicles' have a limited market.... It is only the rich western countries who can afford to virtue signal with expensive and impractical EV ( mostly leased company cars ). The rare earth minerals needed for those EV come from all corners of the globe and are mostly in the countries of unstable regimes. Many naive people really do think that the electricity for their toy comes from renewables, when most of it comes from fossil fuels.. In California when the sun goes down the electric grid is supplied by 80% fossil fuels... and California and parts of southern UK the EV car owners have already been asked not to charge their cars because the grid cannot handle it. Almost 70% of people in UK live in houses with no off road parking or facility to charge their car except at expensive public chargers, making them more expensive to fuel than a diesel... The secondhand market for EV is also not very lively, who wants a car where the price of a battery is over half the price of the vehicle, and it is cheaper to scrap the car than get a replacement battery. I have never seen an ICE car scrapped due to a faulty engine or fuel tank.
Oh wow, all that old disproved stuff, do you actually believe any of it? Especially "I have never seen an ICE car scrapped for faulty engine" Really? Really? then what are the hundreds of huge scrap yards full of?
@@davetakesiton Ice cars usually get scrapped because of very major accident damage, or because of structural rust after 20+ years. I know from phone and laptop batteries how long Li-Ion batteries last.... and all that fast charging that is needed to make 'external combustion vehicles' fit for purpose actually degrades the battery every time you do it, as does charging above 80% and discharging below 20% - it is like having an ICE vehicle with 10 gallon tank, but you cannot fill it above 8 gallons and cannot go below 20% as these are danger areas for Li-Ion chemistry --- Oh and if you fill the tank too fast it gets damaged, so don't forget to just dribble that fuel in over a few hour period.
@@davetakesiton There are an awful lot ( or is that a lot of awful ) EV coming off 3 year leases at the moment, this is flooding a second hand market that does not exist because as well as range anxiety they do not want battery life anxiety
tesla is a lifeboot
What are you on about in Australia there are no ULEZ areas no congestion charges infact in N.S.W we have a yearly regestration inspection and no emission testing because my carburetored no cat converter 26 yesr old indestructible petrol Toyota Hilux with 432000 kilometers on it will last easily another 432000 kilometers and l could drive that into the city if Sydney infact l used to do that when l was a courier retired now without a problem no fines involved at all l can drive anywhere in Australia without climate protesters bothering me in Australia if you get a reliable as with Toyota we keep for a long time there are plenty of 20 30 year old Toyotas driving around also we have EVs but they are really expensive my Hilux cost me 4 years ago aud $1500 a registered running vehicle why our emission laws not that strict and if a government either state or federal if they threaton to introduce sricter emission laws they would be out next election infact we can buy unleaded petrol we do have E10 and it is only 2cents per litre than 91 unleaded and a liberal government was going to ban 91 unleaded to force people to buy either the more expensive 95 and 98 unleaded petrol or E10 but they backed down because if they went through with that they would loose the next state election so if you cone up with laws that affect our cars they are out and they aren't forcing EVs down our throats there are incentives to buy EVs but the way Australia is attacking the reduction of carbon emissions is through solar panels they are everywhere infact South Australia is adopting solar panels in a big way if l owned my own home to right l would have them but we get EVs from everywhere including China and you know that there build quality is not the best infact BYD are having rust issues and when they are 5 years old they have to have there yearly regestration inspection and they will fail because of the rust issues and another unexpected cost for Chinese built EVs my 26 year old Hilux has no rust issues at all Toyota build there cars very well and the biggest selling vehicle in Australia is the Toyota Hilux
I find it really weird that anyone can prefer to pollute the air that we breath with toxic, carcinogenic gases and particles and fight to stop EVs. Must be just me
Looking at this and your recent video about Shell from an economic point-of-view we arrive at a rather bleak picture. ICE car manufacture, including the engine and transmission production, represents a significant part of the manufacturing sector in western economies and employs millions of people. Oil companies feature heavily in the largest western stock exchanges and many countries depend almost entirely on their oil revenue. Western governments love to fill holes in their budgets by applying "windfall" taxes to energy companies.
With the possible universal adoption of BEVs in the next decade many countries are facing a huge economic hit in terms of reduced revenues and job losses. At the moment the anti-BEV hysteria is coming from vociferous petrol-heads and the right-wing media concocting stories. This could get a lot worse as desperate governments and doomed companies wake up to the implications of a world without reciprocating engines and gratuitous fossil-fuel extraction.
Unfortunately this all leaves the Chinese Communist Party laughing all the way to the bank.
I seem to remember there was no concern for the thousands of workers who mined and produced asbestos. Nor those making CFC gases. Money rules, until people start dying. A walk to the shops locally encounters foul, stinking, carcinogenic fumes pouring out of queueing cars. Is this really what you want?
@@davetakesiton Of course not but money rules even when people are dying by the million - the persistence of the tobacco industry shows that. My point is to underline the economic imperatives driving the anti-EV campaigns and why weak politicians may bend to those imperatives despite the human cost. Perhaps I should have spelled that last bit out.
The solution is obvious but it will never be implemented due to the backwards logic, lies and hypocrisy that the whole climate agenda is based around.
The solution is to focus efficiency because there's good and bad technology in every aspect of the business. After decades of R&D into engine manufacturing some companies still make crap inefficient engines. 100% that needs to stop, but the best technology should continue setting the parameters for standards that need to be reached until something better comes along. Same with hybrids, over a decade of engineering... surely not all for the bin just yet, make the worst obsolete and continuewith fhe best. The same logic should be applied to EVs, reach the standard or your product is not fit for purpose and can't be sold.
This would organically lead to a disadvantage for companies like Land Rover, which is why it will never happen. So, here we are looking at vehicles like the Hummer EV and being told it is "greener" than a small ICE car, more efficient than a prius and using all the extra materials will help save the planet 😵💫🚘👍
Also a drive for efficiency might make their private jets and mega yhats vulnerable to interrogation.
B
S
@@rogerstarkey5390 thanks for your input 🤣
We’ve had EV’s for around 10 years selling well doing lots of miles but big oil still sells the same amount of oil !! Why? Because for every EV sold they build a bigger and more inefficient ICE. I got a Leaf but my relatives upgraded from a mini to a big automatic SUV when they didn’t need the bigger SUV and didn’t want an automatic.
@@andyt1048 valid point, a big underlying problem with the green revolution will be personal greed or excess and company profits.
@@mrg-ghx8052
Well deserved and sufficient
Thanks for truth