*NB: Please read our rules before commenting. Please alert us by emailing report@carteblanche.co.za should you see any comments or threads that contain the below: Racist and/or homophobic comments will not be tolerated and users will be banned immediately. 1. Hate speech, defamation & hostility inciting comments. 2. Harassing (incl. sexual), threatening, embarrassing, swearing at, or abusing of another participant. 3. Acting as employees of Carte Blanche. 4. Spam links or comments. 5. Crude or offensive language. Your privacy is important to us. Please do not share personal details in the comments as they will be removed for your safety.
Ok. I've been driving heavy trucks for 20 years. You can ask any experienced long distance truck driver and they all gonna tell you the same thing. The accident started 3km up the road in the beginning of the pass. The driver didn't slow down early. When he realized that the downhill was long, he used his brakes too much. Heavy vehicles are not like cars. Brakes overheats very quickly on downhills and when they do you have no brakes. That's why trucks move very slowly down mountain passes. Once you start running there is nothing that can stop you. Also heavy vehicles have more than one braking systems. Brakes, exhaust brakes, and retarder. So to make a long story short, the concrete barrier couldn't have save them unless it was 2m high. The only thing that could slow down the bus in that situation was the retarder. It is a very powerful hydraulic system that brakes the gearbox. Unfortunately retarders are very expensive, but they should be mandatory.
I know that bridge very well in my trucking days and my travels to my friend in Ellisras. This is not the first accident with loss of life. There were many before and lots of people died there. When you reach the top of the pass from the Marken side with a heavy truck or bus get your truck in 1'st gear low range and proceed as slow as possible until you cross the bridge. My personal opinion is that the cause of the accident was a lack of experience and poor driving from the driver of the bus. The barriers on the side of the bridge is irrelevant as you can pass the bridge safely if your vehicle is under control. and if you know the road. My condolences to the families who lost loved ones. Thank you Carte Blanche for this video.
I suugest u have a discussion with engineers or something to understand the science behind the barriers, the way in which they are built the design and everything is not for decoration there is a reson behind all of that, and u cannot just say is irrelevant without u saying engineering is useless. in a sense maybe view those barriers like a robot and imagine a speeding car passing a red light
@nomthandazokunene6274 I grew up around there, that specific pass and section has been notorious for fatality. It was redone in recent years. When Lephalale was still Elisrass, there was never a weekend without a truck going down there. So to what montenel is saying, the barriers on that section have proven to be regulatory and safety standard check box exercise.
@Montell I agree with you here Carte Blanche are barking the wrong tree. Even with the barrier stractural integrity intact, there was still gonna be an accident with high speed when driving there. I doubt the driver did the recommended speed of 60, also it was dark which could be a factor. Such is avoidable if you drive slow with caution and experience.
@@motherofcubs Firstly its called an accident for a reason ,the barrier is there as a fail safe mechanism and to protect, it has its role you cannot dismiss that ,furthermore no matter how safe and experienced you think you are it can happen to you too caused by other factors, stop being dramatic.
As a Motswana this accident affected us and was a huge loss. Hearing that Sanral guy speak with such arrogance and incompetence is why Batswana aren’t fond of Zimbabweans. He has no respect for lives lost.
Be comforted my brother.But there are many factors there.The route was wrong.The driver was too young.The bridge had damage.I also don't put overspeeding out of the equation.
Condolences to the families who have lost their loved one, we can argue about barriers and speed up until kingdom come but we will never replace the lives lost.. Thank u cart blance for giving these families closure..may thier souls continue to rest peacefully
remember the speed of the bus + the weight of the bus + the conditions of the road + other factors like weather, tire thread and point of impact plays a bigger role in the accident than the barrier itself. A solid 1meter thick concrete wall would have most likely stopped them if they hit it head on at 50km/h. BUT people forget to take into account that the weight of the bus could possibly make it that the bus would squash into itself. Like there’s so many factors to take into account. Just me judging by the barrier on the opposite side? I don’t think it would have stopped it even if they were traveling at 30km/h upon impact.
That Sanral Regional Manager is Zimbabwean and is very incompetent , cheap labour on sanral side .we need qualified South African personal in key positions at all times. he says fixing road the was not urgent Gross incompetence😔😔😔
@@alborica8113 I would say South Africans are way better, by judging the look of these two countries, Zim and SA. South Africa is in a better state than Zimbabwe. If Zimbabweans are the ones that are better than that will mean South Africans must direct their country to the same level of Zimbabwe, and that will be a better level according to you.
@@terencemasilela9339 i never met an South African named Progress(thats a Zimbabwean name) but again i never seen a Zimbabwean person with the surname hlahla unless if he stole it.
As a civil engineer, I would say that the possibility of snagging is a possibility but as tragic as the situation is, the SANRAL official is correct in saying the proclaimation that the cause of the bus going over the barrier was a result of snagging on exposed concrete reinforcement is speculative at best, whether or not a thorough civil engineering forensic analysis was not undertaken. Any large enough object taller than the barrier will tumble over if it strikes the barrier at a sufficient speed and at a specific angle. By my rough estimations, the bus-trailer needs to collide with the concrete barrier at an actual speed of 14 - 30 km\h minimum. It doesn't take much MATH LOGIC & REASONING: Think about the weight of the objects at play here: a heavy vehicle (+- 45 seater touring bus) carrying 45 people (assuming 25% of them are children between 8 and 12) and say ten (arbitrary assumption) 47kg full gas tanks are a total of 21 772kg (heavy "luxury" type) + 2 400kg (assuming a childish 30kg on avg) + (80*10) = 24 972 kg. This is massive! If we assume: - the barrier is at a height of 1070mm (the minimum for 18-wheeler trucks) - the center of mass (COM) of the bus and trailer is approximately halfway up the height of the bus (around 1.5 meters above the ground) - the bus's impact with the barrier generates a horizontal force at the COM level - the barrier is immovable and therefore acts as a pivot point. We can only estimate, the collision angle depends on the geometry of the hairpin turn and the direction from which the bus approaches the concrete barrier. Then using Kinetic Energy = Potential Energy we can roughly estimate the speed the bus would need to travel to tip over, but accounting for road surface friction (actual velocity = friction coeff.* speed estimate), and that when the bus strikes the barrier, it generates an angular momentum (1/3* m*L^2) around the the barrier. For the bus to tumble over the barrier, the angular momentum must be sufficient to overcome the gravitational torque (mgh) acting on it. When I do the math, depending on friction coeff and bus mass (personal luggage is too much of an unknown to account for), I get estimates ranging from 14.4 to 27.36 km\h. If my logic was correct, the SANRAL official was being logical. The bus may have been speeding and if so those barriers were never going to save those poor people. Snaaging as causality is indeed speculative, the steel would need to jut out and would need to be jagged and pulled out of place, but the video footage does not show this. If it were so, I suspect Carte Blanche would have seen this and included the footage.
It is so shameful how people where blaming the leader of the St. Engenas zcc church without investigating what might have caused the accident. RIP to those who lost their lives.
I think it's always the case to say it's sacrifices or rituals when lot of church people die, we as people we must learn that death is there and no one is immune.
Everyone is talking about the broken barrier but a barrier is NOT needed if youre in control of your speed. The real problem on our roads in general is inexperienced drivers. That's the honest truth.
Yes and no, accidents happen, sometimes things like bus breaks heat up and it can't slow down properly anymore etc. These barriers are there to minimize loss of life, and it failed, irrelevant of whether there was speeding, and should have been fixed.
If you understand the causal factors from a safety point of view there's a few potententially unsafe factors. Driver inexperience of the route . Potential speeding. Bus mechanical status. Insufficient containerization. Educate yourselves on safety factors and unsafe acts..
@@careerjungle739 no, they cant become magically experienced, you're right. but to put other people lives in your hands through your inexperience is another thing. Ask yourself if you had a life threatening heart problem are you still going to be demanding to have an inexperienced heart surgeon, because they somehow gotta get that magical experience on someone. a death is a death at the end of the day. right?
I do agree that the barries shouldve kept the bus on the road but busses tend to have a high center of gravity and I guess the bus could've done maybe close to 100kph at the time of the crash, I believe it would've went over regardless if the barrier were brand new. In my opinion that barrier is way too low for the circumstances it is in. Yes, "Jersey" barriers do work and they come in different shapes and sizes so I think its the wrong shape and size for this bridge but then again one cannot just go and build a impenetrable stone wall on the bridge because bridges can only take that much static weight. My heart goes out to the families and their whole village for their loss.
That's what you get when you hire a Zimbabwean national to deal with South African roads. The answer from SANRAL was filled with more loopholes and being defensive than replying as someone who is an engineer. We have South Africans who are qualified looking for jobs and are able to prioritize maintenance, but this Hlahla is shifting the blame instead of making a heartfelt apology and acknowledgment of mismanagement of our resources. It's time we hire South Africans to deal with our own issues. That Professor just addressed it all!
This has nothing to do with him being Zimbabwean. How many structures and buildings in CBDs have not been maintained under the watch of the government ? this thing of blaming foreigners all the times when there are problems is very toxic and promotes unnecessary hate.
Also understand he has to maintain a defensive position until the accident report is out. Admitting something on camera will bw used as evidence. Otherwise as other experienced drivers are saying its not about the barriers but speed and control.
This is painful to watch, especially realizing the barriers were not there... Makes you wonder how many unreported souls have perished there that would have survived had the barriers been erected stronger.
Barriers would not have PREVENTED the accident as the bus had hit the barrier. Could have been less devastating for sure but not prevented completely. Just my opinion
The 'Accident' is referring to the car flipping over the bridge and 40+ people losing their lives. Properly maintained barriers may have prevented that 'accident'. But obviously not the original crash into the barriers
@@jasonbaxter1608 yes but the bus had gas tanks that where going to explode still after crushing so barrier was nit going to save the people but the drop
I wish you could investigate the Georgesvalley road outside Tzaneen, just outside Polokwane. The potholes there can swallow a whole truck, mind you it's for heavy vehicles but it is neglected like a ghost town
Hence I am saying here Carte Blanche are really barking up wrong tree. The presenter drove there with the required speed as she was anticipating the curves ahead and she is still alive, even if barriers were maintained and one drives over the required limit in darkness the probability of an accident becomes higher
What i get from the interview is that the accident was bound to happen if speed limit was not observed. But with proper guard rails, the bus must have been contained within the bridge, not plunge down or overturn.
My little knowledge of physics tells me that the professor didn't consider the hight of the bus in relation to the barriers. Maybe they must increase the hight of the barriers
It’s not perfect system, that would be insane to contend. But some of the crash test footage showed large buses . I wonder if it was maintained could this horrible tragedy have been averted
@@BoboMoerane I can assure you that every scenario is thoroughly considered in engineering! It’s not perfect by any means, however, hundreds of tests are conducted to ensure road safety.
its not about the height of the barriers, but mainly the quality of the material used to build those barriers and the way they are structured, i bet there was no consultation with the civil engineers.
@@BoboMoerane I don't think the purpose of the barrier is dependent on the height (or centre of gravity as you are looking at it). The aim is to redirect the momentum back to the road, that is it must cover the wheel height of most vehicles. Should it be higher then it becomes a problem itself, imagine driving into a tall solid wall. Plus there's 2 barriers, both of which the government failed to fix. There's definitely no sure way of knowing if the bus wouldn't have tipped over though.
remember the speed of the bus + the weight of the bus + the conditions of the road + other factors like weather, tire thread and point of impact plays a bigger role in the accident than the barrier itself. A solid 1meter thick concrete wall would have most likely stopped them if they hit it head on at 50km/h. BUT people forget to take into account that the weight of the bus could possibly make it that the bus would squash into itself. Like there’s so many factors to take into account Side note: doing physics and pure maths paid off. The first time I’ve needed it in my life since 2017
This is so sad, however, speed could have been the problem. Never the less, the bridge was not maintained after numerous accidents. Who does one blame? I know. Say it as it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like most accidents it's never just one reason. Road laws in Africa is more like actual guidelines and for this bus to even make contact with the barrier means it was going way faster than it should have. What is very concerning, even in this video, is how people still drive complex roads like this on their brakes. You need to always use your gears when making such steep descents. Did an interesting exercise last week. Did 10.6km to my destination and counted 18 traffic violations. People are no longer obedient to traffic laws.
Unfortunately it is the drivers fault, speeding seems to be the culprit when you do a public driving permit these are things you should know,again unfortunately I see on a daily basis how big vehicles speed without regard for our traffic laws.
The barrier would have helped if the bus was traveling at 60-70kmh. But from those skidmarks on the bridge I would say that the speed might have been higher than 100kmh. A loaded bus will have a centre of gravity at least 900mm higher than the height of the barrier and with the excessive speed that weight of the loaded bus, above the height of the barrier would topple the bus over with no problem...even with a fully intact and completed barrier. What you should be looking at is if there was sufficient warning of the danger, on top of the pass and further down the pass. I have driven heavy trucks all over RSA for over 15years and many of the passes will have warning signs at positions where it is already too late to slow down a fully loaded truck once you encounter the sign. Also, speeding buses are a reality and if the drivers are not familiar with a spesific dangerous route, it will certainly lead to disaster.
True. As someone who have travelled on cross boarder long distance buses , I have noticed that they sometimes speed a lot. On the other hand, I have also travelled with Intercape (both local and cross boarder) , and they really stick to the heavy vehicle speed limits and do not cut corners.
The first thing our authorities always point to is speed. Driver training and skills are critical when you are responsible for the lives of other people. It should be compulsory for our heavy duty drivers to undergo training to prevent unnecessary accidents. There are many drivers that do not possess adequate driving skills and experience on our roads. We should concentrate on road safety not revenue. Authorities still think that speed traps will prevent accidents!
I heard there were gas cylinders on the trailer 😢did they do a safety check on them? Eish, according to me Sanral should have repaired the barrier as an audit finding 😢
If the manager of Sanral has all these engineering degrees, why isn't the answer the same as Dr Roodt?? I mean they should've gotten the same results? One has the tests to back it, the other one is sitting there fumbling arrogantly. Also can we mention the spelling error on the Sanral board just before the interview, speaks of the professionalism....
Hawks on Hlahla!!!!! I cannot believe! He even said no to "would it have cost too much money to fix the barrier?" Yet RAF has to pay 500k/dependent for each breadwinner that passed.
People need to take resposibility towards their behaviour on the roads, the road is too steep and clearly the bridge is so curved certainly it needs caution ⚠️ driving down towards it in order to make a safe turn. The tyre mark left on the tar clearly shows that driver had a challenge making a smooth turn to pass the bridge due to a higher speed unsuitable to do so and nature took advantage of that, velocity resulted in gravity pulling the bus over the barriers. We dont know how much familiar he was with the route, but from what it's been said in this report they typically use the other route to and from their destination, but they took a different route this time.
So terribly sorry for all the lives lost! The upward sloping bases of these concrete barriers will encourage a wheel to climb up the face and cause a vehicle to either overturn or climb up and over. The barriers should have a horizontal lip ontop to contain a vehicle but prevent Tyre contact with the vertical surfaces. I am sure this will save many lives.
I doubt the drive was too cautious there. When the journalist showed how the road is, I imagined how the bus full of people would easily increase the speed going down and how heavily it can easily push those concrete barriers. I think as much I like Carte Blanche here it's just pushing a wrong move. If the drive was cautious enough, the lives would have been saved. If the drive was alert, he wouldn't even had to go to the safety barriers.
That barrier is not safe anymore simply cause the purpose of it was compromise with the accidents happening there and failing to repair it It is SA fault that alot of people have died there. There is a reason for that barriers maintenance is important
I do not see any mention of the instrument that they put in vehicles, i think it is called a tacograph or even a tracking ubit, which could have recorded the speed of the bus. ??
I dont agree with the expect,if it was meant to work like he is saying, the first vehicle to fall over,will not have done so! It would have swayed back into the road.
1. The hook concept is not convincing from the expert. Excessive speeds will topple a heavy over a barrier (depending on the angle of approach) 2. The angle of approach from the crash tests is way different (straight line) from what exists in the bridge. We have a curve is the bridge, which is induces a toppling effect 3. The journalist’s lack of engineering background makes her take anything from the expert - asking more experts would have probably helped 4. Driver behaviour should improve on our roads
Thank you for at least have multiple takes at what happened. As much as the SANRAL regional manager had a responsibility to maintain those Barriers , *some* people(not all people) are singling him out as the sole reason why the accident happened just because of his ignorant response when asked about maintaining the barriers.
Nobody is blaming the barrier, they are saying had the barrier been properly maintained, the bus had high chances of not falling over the bridge, not that the accident would not have happened. Also asking if the driver was a saint is irrelevant because nobody in earth is a saint. We don't know what led to the bus crashing, so when we do know maybe you can start blaming the driver.
@@thabingxakata .yooh,I can hear and follow her interview properly she is trying to get people to believe this accident is government fault Dude!to her the barrier was provoking the driver to accident 🤣 let's all of Us blame barrier for being so provocative!
@@mawazoaliselemani clearly you weren't following because you're hearing what you want to hear. Firstly that road is a high accident zone, even the so called government marked it. It's a high accident zone because the road is steep and the bend is sharp. The same government put double barriers there because they know cars are likely to swerve and go off the bridge. Not once did she say the barrier caused the actual accident, she said the maintenance of the barriers could have stopped the bus from going off the bridge because thats the job of the barriers on the bridge.
Some of us use this road almost every day. We see accidents there once or twice a year, it's norm. also wild animals (lions) roam around at night there
This Regional Manager should be investigated further by law.... even the way he speaks & his gestures show no sense of remorse....he's such a psychopath !!!! 😮😮😮
The roads of South Africa is in a terrible condition. Very unsafe to drive on. Just look at the Dullstroom road or the Origstad road. Patholes cause many accidents and cars are damaged. I sincerely hope that more attention will be given to the roads in South Africa.
It's like officials tasked with leading South African government-related institutions are well trained at running away from responsibility. It's no rocket science that a road without barriers is less safer than when it has, yet you have this SANRAL official denying all responsibility. I once wrote to SANRAL about rocks falling off Kei Cuttings but they claimed it was a once-off event caused by a truck carrying rocks. Funny enough I travel that road frequently & there'd be rock falling everytime it rains. Only years later are they busy with fixing the problem.
As you can see that bus came down with speed and you will see the imprint off the tire mark applied brakes shows you thats one front wheel was working the rest off wheels was not working. So that bus was not roadworthy.
Very concerned about how the Carte Blanche presenter interupts the Sanral representative while he is attempting to articulate his point, however allowing other speakers to make their point without interruption.
I have traveled a lot in Botswana and I can tell you that the biggest problem on Botswana roads are the busses we travel at 125km/h however the only vehicles that pass you are the busses in Botswana I had a video on my old phone trying to match the speed of the a bus thar passed us and we had to do more than 145km/h to match it's speed they drive in excess of 150km/h and they are not use to corners
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Ok. I've been driving heavy trucks for 20 years. You can ask any experienced long distance truck driver and they all gonna tell you the same thing. The accident started 3km up the road in the beginning of the pass. The driver didn't slow down early. When he realized that the downhill was long, he used his brakes too much. Heavy vehicles are not like cars. Brakes overheats very quickly on downhills and when they do you have no brakes. That's why trucks move very slowly down mountain passes. Once you start running there is nothing that can stop you. Also heavy vehicles have more than one braking systems. Brakes, exhaust brakes, and retarder. So to make a long story short, the concrete barrier couldn't have save them unless it was 2m high. The only thing that could slow down the bus in that situation was the retarder. It is a very powerful hydraulic system that brakes the gearbox. Unfortunately retarders are very expensive, but they should be mandatory.
I agree with you. 💯
💯 ...Those barriers are too low
Thank you
Him having the guts to say it wasn't urgent. 🤦🏾♀️💔 South Africa is really becoming a joke.
Sometimes silence is golden rather than to embarras oneself as well as the employer.. fixing wasn't urgent!!!😮
And i ask myself why was there even a need for barriers if when they're damaged it's not urgent to fix them? Our officials are such an embarrassment.
I know that bridge very well in my trucking days and my travels to my friend in Ellisras. This is not the first accident with loss of life. There were many before and lots of people died there. When you reach the top of the pass from the Marken side with a heavy truck or bus get your truck in 1'st gear low range and proceed as slow as possible until you cross the bridge. My personal opinion is that the cause of the accident was a lack of experience and poor driving from the driver of the bus. The barriers on the side of the bridge is irrelevant as you can pass the bridge safely if your vehicle is under control. and if you know the road. My condolences to the families who lost loved ones. Thank you Carte Blanche for this video.
I suugest u have a discussion with engineers or something to understand the science behind the barriers, the way in which they are built the design and everything is not for decoration there is a reson behind all of that, and u cannot just say is irrelevant without u saying engineering is useless. in a sense maybe view those barriers like a robot and imagine a speeding car passing a red light
@nomthandazokunene6274 I grew up around there, that specific pass and section has been notorious for fatality. It was redone in recent years. When Lephalale was still Elisrass, there was never a weekend without a truck going down there. So to what montenel is saying, the barriers on that section have proven to be regulatory and safety standard check box exercise.
@Montell I agree with you here Carte Blanche are barking the wrong tree. Even with the barrier stractural integrity intact, there was still gonna be an accident with high speed when driving there. I doubt the driver did the recommended speed of 60, also it was dark which could be a factor. Such is avoidable if you drive slow with caution and experience.
@@motherofcubs Firstly its called an accident for a reason ,the barrier is there as a fail safe mechanism and to protect, it has its role you cannot dismiss that ,furthermore no matter how safe and experienced you think you are it can happen to you too caused by other factors, stop being dramatic.
@@desmondphutieagae7394calm down, take a deep breath...
Thank you carte Blanche for tackling the things that matter.
even today I still feel enormous pain for the lives lost here.. Hearing this man say its not urgent to fix the barriers is a shocker!!
My conclusion is ,in Africa maintenance left the group😕
@@zamubuntukani1250 this
Yep, people would rather eat the maintenance money.
So true, in Africa maintenance was last done properly 30 years ago. You can't even trust that it's going to be properly going forward.
I'm just amazed that even to this day the barrier of the bridge still hasnt been fixed after so many accidents and deaths in the last 3 years
They do not care about pls lives. So sad.
@@SmilingCrescentMoon-io9px its sad dear
As a Motswana this accident affected us and was a huge loss. Hearing that Sanral guy speak with such arrogance and incompetence is why Batswana aren’t fond of Zimbabweans. He has no respect for lives lost.
@@servingcant where does Zimbabwe come in now? 😭🤔
Be comforted my brother.But there are many factors there.The route was wrong.The driver was too young.The bridge had damage.I also don't put overspeeding out of the equation.
@@nigeljakopo526Progress Hlahla the regional manager is from Zimbabwe. And he was being very insensitive.
Spot on
What has Zimbabwe done
Roads in limpopo are horrible especially the issue with Potholes without warning signs.
Very respectful episode.❤
Condolences to the families who have lost their loved one, we can argue about barriers and speed up until kingdom come but we will never replace the lives lost..
Thank u cart blance for giving these families closure..may thier souls continue to rest peacefully
No one is saying the driver is a saint, but if the bridge was well maintained it would've have contained the bus within the road.
How do you know that?, him being on his way to Moria, I am confident that he is one now.
remember the speed of the bus + the weight of the bus + the conditions of the road + other factors like weather, tire thread and point of impact plays a bigger role in the accident than the barrier itself.
A solid 1meter thick concrete wall would have most likely stopped them if they hit it head on at 50km/h. BUT people forget to take into account that the weight of the bus could possibly make it that the bus would squash into itself.
Like there’s so many factors to take into account.
Just me judging by the barrier on the opposite side? I don’t think it would have stopped it even if they were traveling at 30km/h upon impact.
This guy from SANRAL said it's not important to fix the bridge 💔.
He surely shouldn't hold that position 🙄
His accent is not giving S.A., he is just keeeping the seat warm.
He is not serious... I'm shocked he said that, nonchalantly so... My goodness!
His english sounds like my fellow zimbabwean,
Thats what you get from Employing foreigners
How ironic is it that the SANRAL manager's name is Progress. But yet no progress has been in fixing the bridge
That Sanral Regional Manager is Zimbabwean and is very incompetent , cheap labour on sanral side .we need qualified South African personal in key positions at all times. he says fixing road the was not urgent Gross incompetence😔😔😔
That's baseless assumption, accept your roads and your people without blaming us
I am south African and can confirm that South Africa are way worse
we've got all this university qualifications but still incompetent
Who ever he is or where ever his from he must step down
@@alborica8113 I would say South Africans are way better, by judging the look of these two countries, Zim and SA. South Africa is in a better state than Zimbabwe. If Zimbabweans are the ones that are better than that will mean South Africans must direct their country to the same level of Zimbabwe, and that will be a better level according to you.
@@terencemasilela9339 i never met an South African named Progress(thats a Zimbabwean name) but again i never seen a Zimbabwean person with the surname hlahla unless if he stole it.
As a civil engineer, I would say that the possibility of snagging is a possibility but as tragic as the situation is, the SANRAL official is correct in saying the proclaimation that the cause of the bus going over the barrier was a result of snagging on exposed concrete reinforcement is speculative at best, whether or not a thorough civil engineering forensic analysis was not undertaken.
Any large enough object taller than the barrier will tumble over if it strikes the barrier at a sufficient speed and at a specific angle. By my rough estimations, the bus-trailer needs to collide with the concrete barrier at an actual speed of 14 - 30 km\h minimum. It doesn't take much
MATH LOGIC & REASONING:
Think about the weight of the objects at play here: a heavy vehicle (+- 45 seater touring bus) carrying 45 people (assuming 25% of them are children between 8 and 12) and say ten (arbitrary assumption) 47kg full gas tanks are a total of 21 772kg (heavy "luxury" type) + 2 400kg (assuming a childish 30kg on avg) + (80*10) = 24 972 kg. This is massive!
If we assume:
- the barrier is at a height of 1070mm (the minimum for 18-wheeler trucks)
- the center of mass (COM) of the bus and trailer is approximately halfway up the height of the bus (around 1.5 meters above the ground)
- the bus's impact with the barrier generates a horizontal force at the COM level
- the barrier is immovable and therefore acts as a pivot point.
We can only estimate, the collision angle depends on the geometry of the hairpin turn and the direction from which the bus approaches the concrete barrier.
Then using Kinetic Energy = Potential Energy we can roughly estimate the speed the bus would need to travel to tip over, but accounting for road surface friction (actual velocity = friction coeff.* speed estimate), and that when the bus strikes the barrier, it generates an angular momentum (1/3* m*L^2) around the the barrier. For the bus to tumble over the barrier, the angular momentum must be sufficient to overcome the gravitational torque (mgh) acting on it.
When I do the math, depending on friction coeff and bus mass (personal luggage is too much of an unknown to account for), I get estimates ranging from 14.4 to 27.36 km\h. If my logic was correct, the SANRAL official was being logical. The bus may have been speeding and if so those barriers were never going to save those poor people. Snaaging as causality is indeed speculative, the steel would need to jut out and would need to be jagged and pulled out of place, but the video footage does not show this. If it were so, I suspect Carte Blanche would have seen this and included the footage.
Very well explained.
Why is this guy head of sanral North region,how can he say that it's not urgent.
Cadre
Because he is a foreigner from Zimbabwe, he doesn't care about any South african life.
Thats what happens when people get employed thru Cronyism not competence, im sure thats how 60% of jobs are filled and we wonder why africa is a mess
Thanks for the update
It is so shameful how people where blaming the leader of the St. Engenas zcc church without investigating what might have caused the accident.
RIP to those who lost their lives.
I think it's always the case to say it's sacrifices or rituals when lot of church people die, we as people we must learn that death is there and no one is immune.
😢😢😢so surprised
Everyone is talking about the broken barrier but a barrier is NOT needed if youre in control of your speed. The real problem on our roads in general is inexperienced drivers. That's the honest truth.
Yes and no, accidents happen, sometimes things like bus breaks heat up and it can't slow down properly anymore etc.
These barriers are there to minimize loss of life, and it failed, irrelevant of whether there was speeding, and should have been fixed.
@@Masterrunescapeer Spot on
Are you saying every driver should magically be experienced? That is impossible, the roads should be safe even for inexperienced drivers.
If you understand the causal factors from a safety point of view there's a few potententially unsafe factors.
Driver inexperience of the route .
Potential speeding.
Bus mechanical status.
Insufficient containerization.
Educate yourselves on safety factors and unsafe acts..
@@careerjungle739 no, they cant become magically experienced, you're right. but to put other people lives in your hands through your inexperience is another thing.
Ask yourself if you had a life threatening heart problem are you still going to be demanding to have an inexperienced heart surgeon, because they somehow gotta get that magical experience on someone. a death is a death at the end of the day. right?
Why is the Regional Manager a Zimbabwean ..that position should be occupied by a qualified SOUTH AFRICAN citizen..not a foreigner!
Not surprising. SA will have a foreign president one day
@@wherestwenty9 how did you know that he is a Zimbabwean? Maybe I missed a crucial pointer that suggests that he is a Zimbabwean
@@saddingtonmangena1241 lol
@@saddingtonmangena1241 accent says it all
@@avuazahc1966 you've clearly never heard a venda accent before🤣
I feel so bad for the family who have lost there love one
I do agree that the barries shouldve kept the bus on the road but busses tend to have a high center of gravity and I guess the bus could've done maybe close to 100kph at the time of the crash, I believe it would've went over regardless if the barrier were brand new. In my opinion that barrier is way too low for the circumstances it is in. Yes, "Jersey" barriers do work and they come in different shapes and sizes so I think its the wrong shape and size for this bridge but then again one cannot just go and build a impenetrable stone wall on the bridge because bridges can only take that much static weight. My heart goes out to the families and their whole village for their loss.
Hello Carte Blanche, can you please give us an update on the Boksburg Explosion victims?
That regional manager shows incompetency at it's highest level.
@@mrvugo1 probably got the job through comradeship connections
Thank you for documenting this painful incident. I, for one, thought the bus caused the damage to the side wall.
That's what you get when you hire a Zimbabwean national to deal with South African roads. The answer from SANRAL was filled with more loopholes and being defensive than replying as someone who is an engineer. We have South Africans who are qualified looking for jobs and are able to prioritize maintenance, but this Hlahla is shifting the blame instead of making a heartfelt apology and acknowledgment of mismanagement of our resources. It's time we hire South Africans to deal with our own issues. That Professor just addressed it all!
@@THE_TRUTH_WHISPERER Why everytime you include Zimbabweans.
This has nothing to do with him being Zimbabwean. How many structures and buildings in CBDs have not been maintained under the watch of the government ? this thing of blaming foreigners all the times when there are problems is very toxic and promotes unnecessary hate.
Also understand he has to maintain a defensive position until the accident report is out. Admitting something on camera will bw used as evidence. Otherwise as other experienced drivers are saying its not about the barriers but speed and control.
This is painful to watch, especially realizing the barriers were not there... Makes you wonder how many unreported souls have perished there that would have survived had the barriers been erected stronger.
……and why did I watch this💔💔💔
Just when my little heart was beginning to heal 😭
RIP to all who lost their lives,,, the first major cause of the accident is allowing a 28 year old to driver a bus especially to tht long distance.
That table talks with the Regional manager of SANRAL was intense and straightforward, that exactly how these people should be interrogated... 11:16 .
Yeah but the lack of remorse and accountability breaks my heart
@@DaChap269 that guy has no brain honestly
Before the turn is said 50km/h...
Barriers would not have PREVENTED the accident as the bus had hit the barrier. Could have been less devastating for sure but not prevented completely. Just my opinion
The 'Accident' is referring to the car flipping over the bridge and 40+ people losing their lives. Properly maintained barriers may have prevented that 'accident'. But obviously not the original crash into the barriers
@@jasonbaxter1608 yes but the bus had gas tanks that where going to explode still after crushing so barrier was nit going to save the people but the drop
Why would the gas tanks always explode?
@@Masterrunescapeer did i mention gas tanks?
@@RandB_Aquatics You watch too many American movies 🤣
Not everything explodes with an impact.
I wish you could investigate the Georgesvalley road outside Tzaneen, just outside Polokwane. The potholes there can swallow a whole truck, mind you it's for heavy vehicles but it is neglected like a ghost town
@@NHLANHLAMOHLOLO 🤣yeah that 1 of sa worst roads...
you are right, i hope it can been well maintained because trucks use it daily
Whether the barrier was adequate at the time or not...the bus was speeding and it lies with the driver..I am sorry.
Hence I am saying here Carte Blanche are really barking up wrong tree. The presenter drove there with the required speed as she was anticipating the curves ahead and she is still alive, even if barriers were maintained and one drives over the required limit in darkness the probability of an accident becomes higher
What i get from the interview is that the accident was bound to happen if speed limit was not observed. But with proper guard rails, the bus must have been contained within the bridge, not plunge down or overturn.
My little knowledge of physics tells me that the professor didn't consider the hight of the bus in relation to the barriers. Maybe they must increase the hight of the barriers
It’s not perfect system, that would be insane to contend. But some of the crash test footage showed large buses . I wonder if it was maintained could this horrible tragedy have been averted
@@BoboMoerane I can assure you that every scenario is thoroughly considered in engineering! It’s not perfect by any means, however, hundreds of tests are conducted to ensure road safety.
its not about the height of the barriers, but mainly the quality of the material used to build those barriers and the way they are structured, i bet there was no consultation with the civil engineers.
@@BoboMoerane I don't think the purpose of the barrier is dependent on the height (or centre of gravity as you are looking at it). The aim is to redirect the momentum back to the road, that is it must cover the wheel height of most vehicles. Should it be higher then it becomes a problem itself, imagine driving into a tall solid wall. Plus there's 2 barriers, both of which the government failed to fix. There's definitely no sure way of knowing if the bus wouldn't have tipped over though.
remember the speed of the bus + the weight of the bus + the conditions of the road + other factors like weather, tire thread and point of impact plays a bigger role in the accident than the barrier itself.
A solid 1meter thick concrete wall would have most likely stopped them if they hit it head on at 50km/h. BUT people forget to take into account that the weight of the bus could possibly make it that the bus would squash into itself.
Like there’s so many factors to take into account
Side note: doing physics and pure maths paid off. The first time I’ve needed it in my life since 2017
Incompetence carries a stench
but Limpopo's service delivery is some of the worst in the country.
So sad .may their souls RIP. May the Lord comfort the bereaved families
That bridge has been claiming lives for the past 30yrs or so.
That road looks very scary 😮
This is so sad, however, speed could have been the problem. Never the less, the bridge was not maintained after numerous accidents. Who does one blame? I know. Say it as it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This SANRAL guy... too indifferent. People have lost loved ones and he's here talking about "not urgent."
@@ValentineButale so sad
Like most accidents it's never just one reason. Road laws in Africa is more like actual guidelines and for this bus to even make contact with the barrier means it was going way faster than it should have. What is very concerning, even in this video, is how people still drive complex roads like this on their brakes. You need to always use your gears when making such steep descents. Did an interesting exercise last week. Did 10.6km to my destination and counted 18 traffic violations. People are no longer obedient to traffic laws.
May all rest in peace
The roads to Limpopo and in it are terrible. The potholes are massive and signage non existent.
Cry our Beloved country...
Sanral manager needs to go back to preprimary school how can he utter such nonsense lives were lost 😒 he says its not urgent to fix it you're fired
SANRAL MANAGER IS GIVING ZIM
totally not one of us🤞i was very annoyed when he said fixing the road wasn't urgent.
my thinking as well...
Hlahla is a Pedi clan and they don't have that accent. A further skills and resident audit should be done.
@@patakijoseph3995 Accent
@avuazahc1966 true the accent is giving Shona
Unfortunately it is the drivers fault, speeding seems to be the culprit when you do a public driving permit these are things you should know,again unfortunately I see on a daily basis how big vehicles speed without regard for our traffic laws.
How do you know that, were you there?????
Had the driver followed speed limit which is adhering to the law then this would not happen, Can we for once not blame the incorrect parties.
I’m in tears 😭
The barrier would have helped if the bus was traveling at 60-70kmh. But from those skidmarks on the bridge I would say that the speed might have been higher than 100kmh. A loaded bus will have a centre of gravity at least 900mm higher than the height of the barrier and with the excessive speed that weight of the loaded bus, above the height of the barrier would topple the bus over with no problem...even with a fully intact and completed barrier. What you should be looking at is if there was sufficient warning of the danger, on top of the pass and further down the pass. I have driven heavy trucks all over RSA for over 15years and many of the passes will have warning signs at positions where it is already too late to slow down a fully loaded truck once you encounter the sign.
Also, speeding buses are a reality and if the drivers are not familiar with a spesific dangerous route, it will certainly lead to disaster.
True. As someone who have travelled on cross boarder long distance buses , I have noticed that they sometimes speed a lot. On the other hand, I have also travelled with Intercape (both local and cross boarder) , and they really stick to the heavy vehicle speed limits and do not cut corners.
Please upload the full shows 😢
This road should be closed as it is too dangerous
progress hlahla is from Zimbabwe , no qualification for him to have that position. i know him
The first thing our authorities always point to is speed. Driver training and skills are critical when you are responsible for the lives of other people. It should be compulsory for our heavy duty drivers to undergo training to prevent unnecessary accidents. There are many drivers that do not possess adequate driving skills and experience on our roads. We should concentrate on road safety not revenue. Authorities still think that speed traps will prevent accidents!
I heard there were gas cylinders on the trailer 😢did they do a safety check on them?
Eish, according to me Sanral should have repaired the barrier as an audit finding 😢
speed is the main issue though judging from the fact that the bus crossed the oncoming lane failing to go thru the curve safely
The ANC government and administration has failed the country dismissally
Those barriers are too low.
from what has been presented , i believe the family can take legal action against SANRAL and all those responsible for the maintanance of the bridge.
If the manager of Sanral has all these engineering degrees, why isn't the answer the same as Dr Roodt?? I mean they should've gotten the same results? One has the tests to back it, the other one is sitting there fumbling arrogantly. Also can we mention the spelling error on the Sanral board just before the interview, speaks of the professionalism....
'Northen' . . . 'Northern'. Small things make perfection but perfection is no small thing.
Hawks on Hlahla!!!!! I cannot believe!
He even said no to "would it have cost too much money to fix the barrier?" Yet RAF has to pay 500k/dependent for each breadwinner that passed.
30 YEARS OF AND NEGLIGENCE
People need to take resposibility towards their behaviour on the roads, the road is too steep and clearly the bridge is so curved certainly it needs caution ⚠️ driving down towards it in order to make a safe turn. The tyre mark left on the tar clearly shows that driver had a challenge making a smooth turn to pass the bridge due to a higher speed unsuitable to do so and nature took advantage of that, velocity resulted in gravity pulling the bus over the barriers. We dont know how much familiar he was with the route, but from what it's been said in this report they typically use the other route to and from their destination, but they took a different route this time.
If the bus was not speeding, the barrier would not have been hit. Does not take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
So terribly sorry for all the lives lost!
The upward sloping bases of these concrete barriers will encourage a wheel to climb up the face and cause a vehicle to either overturn or climb up and over.
The barriers should have a horizontal lip ontop to contain a vehicle but prevent Tyre contact with the vertical surfaces. I am sure this will save many lives.
Is giving Zimbabwe this one…
Maintenance work has left South Africa completely, most roads are in a bad state. Also look at our rail system, Eskom, the list is endless......
I doubt the drive was too cautious there. When the journalist showed how the road is, I imagined how the bus full of people would easily increase the speed going down and how heavily it can easily push those concrete barriers. I think as much I like Carte Blanche here it's just pushing a wrong move. If the drive was cautious enough, the lives would have been saved. If the drive was alert, he wouldn't even had to go to the safety barriers.
That barrier is not safe anymore simply cause the purpose of it was compromise with the accidents happening there and failing to repair it It is SA fault that alot of people have died there. There is a reason for that barriers maintenance is important
I do not see any mention of the instrument that they put in vehicles, i think it is called a tacograph or even a tracking ubit, which could have recorded the speed of the bus. ??
THAT BROWN AND GREEN LV JERSEY THE LADY IS WEARING AT 13:45 IS 🔥🔥🔥
I dont agree with the expect,if it was meant to work like he is saying, the first vehicle to fall over,will not have done so! It would have swayed back into the road.
Thumbs up to narrater of the program, she knw her job.
Progress has an apt name.
None happening on that bridge
What i saw last week is that they added alert strips
1. The hook concept is not convincing from the expert. Excessive speeds will topple a heavy over a barrier (depending on the angle of approach)
2. The angle of approach from the crash tests is way different (straight line) from what exists in the bridge. We have a curve is the bridge, which is induces a toppling effect
3. The journalist’s lack of engineering background makes her take anything from the expert - asking more experts would have probably helped
4. Driver behaviour should improve on our roads
Thank you for at least have multiple takes at what happened. As much as the SANRAL regional manager had a responsibility to maintain those Barriers , *some* people(not all people) are singling him out as the sole reason why the accident happened just because of his ignorant response when asked about maintaining the barriers.
Progress? More like regress
Why you try hard to point a blame on barrier?is driver a saint?
Nobody is blaming the barrier, they are saying had the barrier been properly maintained, the bus had high chances of not falling over the bridge, not that the accident would not have happened. Also asking if the driver was a saint is irrelevant because nobody in earth is a saint. We don't know what led to the bus crashing, so when we do know maybe you can start blaming the driver.
@@thabingxakata .yooh,I can hear and follow her interview properly she is trying to get people to believe this accident is government fault Dude!to her the barrier was provoking the driver to accident 🤣 let's all of Us blame barrier for being so provocative!
@@mawazoaliselemani clearly you weren't following because you're hearing what you want to hear. Firstly that road is a high accident zone, even the so called government marked it. It's a high accident zone because the road is steep and the bend is sharp. The same government put double barriers there because they know cars are likely to swerve and go off the bridge. Not once did she say the barrier caused the actual accident, she said the maintenance of the barriers could have stopped the bus from going off the bridge because thats the job of the barriers on the bridge.
I am shocked Sanral is employing Zimbabweans? How did he get the job ahead of South African?
Sanral should have just fixed the barrier whether or not the accident was caused by speed
Some of us use this road almost every day. We see accidents there once or twice a year, it's norm. also wild animals (lions) roam around at night there
Wow lions😮
Sanral must hold accountable for this 😢
so sad , we take pictures there when we have weddings
Who was responsible for deciding not to repair the bridge. ?
Why wasn't the question asked...
This Regional Manager should be investigated further by law.... even the way he speaks & his gestures show no sense of remorse....he's such a psychopath !!!! 😮😮😮
The roads of South Africa is in a terrible condition. Very unsafe to drive on. Just look at the Dullstroom road or the Origstad road. Patholes cause many accidents and cars are damaged. I sincerely hope that more attention will be given to the roads in South Africa.
This is very sad... The SANRAL Manager is being defensive and showing no remorse. They must fix these things in time😢😢
May the deceased rest in peace❤
What about R71 Magoebaskloof because there is no Bearears
It's like officials tasked with leading South African government-related institutions are well trained at running away from responsibility. It's no rocket science that a road without barriers is less safer than when it has, yet you have this SANRAL official denying all responsibility. I once wrote to SANRAL about rocks falling off Kei Cuttings but they claimed it was a once-off event caused by a truck carrying rocks. Funny enough I travel that road frequently & there'd be rock falling everytime it rains. Only years later are they busy with fixing the problem.
As you can see that bus came down with speed and you will see the imprint off the tire mark applied brakes shows you thats one front wheel was working the rest off wheels was not working. So that bus was not roadworthy.
South African Roads are a total disgrace!! What is SANRAL doing to address this Horrible Scenario!!
RIP EVERYONE
Next we will cry with that Bridge rusting metal bridge at Steelport 😓
This sandral guy is not from around.
Very concerned about how the Carte Blanche presenter interupts the Sanral representative while he is attempting to articulate his point, however allowing other speakers to make their point without interruption.
I have traveled a lot in Botswana and I can tell you that the biggest problem on Botswana roads are the busses we travel at 125km/h however the only vehicles that pass you are the busses in Botswana I had a video on my old phone trying to match the speed of the a bus thar passed us and we had to do more than 145km/h to match it's speed they drive in excess of 150km/h and they are not use to corners