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How to Play Vietnamese Commander Chess, Cờ tư lệnh - AncientChess.com
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- A new chess variant, invented by the distinguished Vietnamese war veteran Colonel Hải Nguyễn Quí. A sophisticated application of realistic modern war strategy, adapted to a chessboard. Complex, active and eduactional. Introduced to the English-speaking world by AncientChess.com.
It's especially interesting how there are multiple win/loss scenarios.
Also, thank you for setting the beads.
Like a mashup between chess and a wargame. The format of the former with the complexity of the latter.
DB Pooper Yes - exactly!
@@AncientChess hmm, vietnamese chess is chem chess ,commander chess and "ô ăn quan"
chess is highly complex as well. That is the problem with these games, they could be considered equally complex as in all of them there is a number larger than the number of atoms in the observable universe of possible games. The simpler the piece movement, the further you can look into the future (counts for humans as well as engines). This game features a more complicated ruleset than chess for sure, but in absolute terms it cannot be called "more" complicated IMO
Im Vietnamese and I don't even know we have a chess lol.
Thanks for this video, I'll give this a try.
For people who might wonder this, we mostly play Chinese chess and normal chess.
:v cờ này có từ 8 năm trc r bro
@Right Time ko ông ơi =)) do ông bộ đội nào đấy quên tên r làm ra nhưng ông này cx lớn tuổi r, ko phải cuồng game
The commander looks like a jar of Golden Star balm
@Right Time Yes
The rules about the commander are great. Having the commander move farther than a chess king's move make him less vulnerable, and having the anti face-to-face rule plus short attacking range make him less dangerous than the other pieces.
Absolutely fascinating.
Thanks for the good comment! If you search Cờ tư lệnh on RUclips, you'll see a lot of how this game is being promoted in Vietnam
I've watched all your videos on this game more than once and bought the wooden set, which is really beautiful. I'll never be good at it, but I love it. Your videos are so clear. The glass stones are a brilliant teaching tool. Thanks for making this game accessible to the western world.
Thanks for the great comment! I've been sharing chess and chess variants online now for about 15 years on my site ancientchess.com ...
and now we have a book about the entire world history of chess development, aworldofchess.com .
Leave questions and comments any time!
Rick
@@AncientChess
I have a question
What if I attack stacked pieces do I capture all the pieces or one or some of them?
@@MohemedTidjani Thanks for the message. In that case, you capture all of them.
@@rickknowlton9990
Are there games on the phone or computer to play?
@@MohemedTidjani Thanks, that's a good question. I have not been keeping up with the developments of this game lately, so I do not know. I will have to see what I find....
If you find anything, please send another message
Rick, thank you so much for bringing "Cờ tư lệnh" to worldwide :))
Very interesting and the guy who created it clearly has a lot of fantasy. It’s like memoir 44 meets chess.
wow I'm Vietnamese and i didnt know about this game until this video :))
Dave Ha That's great! Thanks for subscribing to the channnel. You'll find that there are many Vietnamese clips about this game on RUclips. Please feel invited to share with us insights that you get from the Vietnamese materials.
shame on you ...
Kind of odd that the Militia is more powerful than the Infantry.
But very interesting game regardless!
+XClann it is probably meant to represent that militia is able to move freely as if by surprise.
Vietnam beat the U.S due to guerilla tactics i.e militia prevailed over infantry.
Just to let you guys know, in Vietnamese this piece is called Female Militia. And you can guess the meaning behind letting that piece have stronger attack than an Infantry.
I go back to this video just to finish it. then was shock it was more complicated than I thought. 😮
Uh yeah, this is definitely the most complicated chess variant I have covered in these videos. I wonder how it's been doing in Vietnam.
When a piece become ''heroic'', he has one move horizontal, vertical and diagonally, so the question is, does the Ship, Missile and Anti-aircraft when they become ''heroic'', they have one move horizontal, vertical and diagonally, does this move is included in protecting air space?
+Dhoop Insens I just heard back from Colonel Hai regarding this question. Apparently, a piece which protects air space DOES expand its air space protection by one further point, once it has become a Heroic Piece.
+AncientChess Tnx man, I just buyed this game from Ebay and Im still learning. Its a awesome board game to develope strategy and tactics :D
+AncientChess Im a bit confused about ''engineer'', im reading a rules and it said that ''engineer'' controls air space for radius of one point, its the same like aircraft, right? I saw a picture, that shows millitia, aircraft, and ships air space circles, but didnt put the picture enginer defending air space?
+Dhoop Insens No, I don't think that's right. The engineer shouldn't control air space. Where are you reading those rules? I know there are some contradictions in the original translation which I've tried to iron out in my booklet (available as free download at AncientChess com)
+AncientChess Im agree with that Engineer should't control air space, but I downloaded from your site a rules, and I also buyed this game from Ebay, and Its said, im copying a sentence: '' Engineer (Capture Power), May capture as it moves. Control air space for radius of 1 point....that's how is written in the original rule witch I buyed and from your site I downloaded and printed, but maybe its some mistake, I think?
Hi Again.
What happens if the Aircraft crosses an Anti-Aircraft zone to try and capture a piece beyond the zone? Does it get shot down before it can capture the piece, or do both pieces get captured.
8:49
Very interesting game. I am working on a very large chess variant of my own. This game has some concepts that I have in my game such as carrier pieces, and some that I've seen only in this game, and in no other chess game. Also in my game I am involving a lot of logic too. This game looks very interesting. I wonder if it's just as fun to play as other chess variants. Thanks friend.
Thanks for the good message. This game certainly has some unique features, not found in many (or any) other chess variants. It seems that Colonel Hai got his inspiration from actual battle scenarios in the American/Vietnamese war. For instance, very importantly, one side can lose not only by losing the Commander (like the 'king'), but equally by losing any of the major land, sea or air forces. If you try this game please com back and comment on how it goes for you.
Also, feel invited to share more about your own variant
AncientChess iWow! You responded. Thanks. I will keep you updated on some of my progress. You know. It's crazy the variety of pieces one can come up with. I've learned that it's endless. I have seen it # in to the thousands as I've worked on my game. I will not use all of them of course. It's just to much information for a human or a computer even. When they found the game taikyoku shogi, the rules to it differd. It's not that the different sources were wrong. It's that with such a big game the types of games you play are infinate. I've learned that working on my game which will be bigger than taikyoku. Chess variants alone are endless.
Yes, endless indeed! If you haven't seen it yet, I think you'll find our new book a great resource.
A World of Chess: Its Development and Variations through Centuries and Civilizations.
It really puts the world phenomenon of chess variants into perspective. That's at AWorldofChess.com.
Do keep me informed on your progress.
Have you ever heard of cờ ngũ hành ("Wuxing chess" for a provisional English translation), which is also called cờ vũ trụ ("Cosmic chess" as it has been translated)? A Vietnamese Wikipedia entry for cờ ngũ hành has just been deleted, but at least there are a few videos of that Vietnamese board game here.
Here's a low-quality but interesting video explaining Cờ Ngũ Hành: ruclips.net/video/wX-9e6zqNfs/видео.html
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. What a beautiful game! Someone had shown it to me before, but I don't think I saw a video like that, to get the whole idea. I can't tell just looking at that what it would be like to play it, but the set and the concepts have such a wonderful aesthetic appeal. Perhaps I can learn more about it
I bought the beautiful wooden set and have been enjoying it, mostly playing right-hand-vs-left hand to get a feel for how it works. I have a couple of questions:
1. If an air-force piece moves within range of an anti-aircraft gun, the plane is immediately shot down. But what happens if an anti-aircraft gun moves adjacent to an air-force piece? Is the plane immediately shot down, or can it fly away, or can it capture the gun?
2. Is there any plan to make an English translation of the book? The sample games and diagrams are helpful, but I feel like I'm missing a lot.
Thanks for the questions. As I understand it, the plane is shot down only when it takes flight... so if it is within the range of an anti-aircraft gun or missile, it must remain grounded or be instantly shot down. It can also be captures right there on the ground, by a piece moving onto its space.
I'm sorry, there's not English translation. The translations are actually very difficult, especially for this rather complicated game. I worked hard to get the rules into a coherent English booklet ... the original English information from Colonel Hai takes a bit of work to interpret clearly.
Dear KarenSDR, I am a vietnamese myself if you still would like to have your rule book translated please consider to email me and a scan of it. I would do my best to translate the text as precise as possible.
Reply me if you are still in need. Thanks for your interest in the game. 😊
@@AncientChess In the 2nd game of Commander Chess: Determined Victory Squadron, I see the blue anti-aircraft gun went next to the red airplane, but the plane still flew out of the gun and it wasn't shot down.
I think this is the rule: (maybe my English is bad)
About anti-aircraft gun and the navy: if the airplane takes off at the border of the fire circle (Colonel Hai's word for the protected space in the sky) and doesn't fly across it again, it will be safe.
About the missle: if the airplane is 2 space orthogonally from the missile (border of the circle) and doesn't fly across the circle again, it will be safe. if the plane is in the circle, not the border of the circle, it must be landed, or be shot down immediately. The missle also controls 1 space diagonally, I'm talking about 4 diagonal dots, if you draw a circle demonstrating for the range of the missile, you will see the 4 dots is located in the circle, not at the border, so if the airplane stands there, it must remain grounded too.
About both Aa, N, and Ms: an airplane can capture Aa or Ms despite where the plane is locating.
@@milkystudy4u Let us take up this discussion under the video of the 2nd game, here:
ruclips.net/video/19hsNAIAOTI/видео.html
Very inspiring video! Thanks!
A pleasure! Send messages any time :)
This is very fascinating. I'll love to try this.
Can a heroic Tank embark onto the Navy, when the Navy is on x=0 (far left) or even x=1, or does the Navy have to be on the shore (x=2) ?
This is the first time I saw a modern warfare chess game.
In some ways the air force and navy scenarios lead to some quick games. I wonder if it is a better game if you just have a checkmate scenario on the commander.
I haven't played enough to have an experienced opinion. I know the fellow who invented the game specifically wanted to emphasize the reality that all the various forces are needed in actual warfare, so the loss of any one branch would be a loss of the battle.
Where can I purchase a set of my own? Thank you!
very cool form of chess
Yeah, it's pretty far out there as chess variants go ... kind of between chess and other sorts of war boardgames
these pieces are ridiculously modern, thats sooo cool! i feel like this would be a nightmare to learn to play though!
Yeah, it is intended to be a modern game, taking the idea of (Chinese) chess and applying it to the principles of 20th century warfare. Indeed, much more complicated than a typical chess variant ... but complex games do have a pretty big following
I'm proud that Vietnamese can have their own form of chess, but this chess seems a bit complicated which may be the reason why it cannot be popularised even in its own homeland.
I agree, it is much more complicated than most chess variants. It seems to be popularized mostly in places where the inventor himself is able to introduce the game, in schools and military academies
At least there's also Cờ Ngũ Hành: ruclips.net/video/wX-9e6zqNfs/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/bdbllE9d4Ok/видео.html&lc=UgzTzY47PSQqqaDraX94AaABAg
This is a tabletop version of a computer war game such as the old C64 Empire or even the PC Age Of Empires! It feels very much like such a thing.
Interesting comment. I'm not familiar with those games, and I don't get the connection very easily. Here is a video of C64 Empire for anyone who wants to follow up on this idea ruclips.net/video/EgWcC8twc8c/видео.html
I'm Vietnamese, and I didn't even know this game existed. In Viet Nam, we mostly just play regular chess and Chinese chess (xiangqi). Albeit, it's actually a pretty new game, so it's not that popular.
Thanks for the helpful comment. Yeah, this game was invented by an army colonel and he has been promoting it in schools and military academies ... but it's got nowhere near the popularity of the old standards.
love vietnam🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳
I hope to visit some day
There's also Cờ Ngũ Hành: ruclips.net/video/wX-9e6zqNfs/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/bdbllE9d4Ok/видео.html&lc=UgzTzY47PSQqqaDraX94AaABAg
when you are talking about heroic pieces and the last defender being a heroic piece. Does that mean that your last naval becomes heroic or just the land units?
Good question. I think this situation actually almost never happens, perhaps that is why I have not seen any further comments about it. It would not make sense if it refers to ALL pieces -- because by the time only one piece is left (besides the Commander), the game has already been lost by losing all air force, all navy, or all land pieces (besides the Commander). So, as far as I can see, the rule would only make sense if it is referring only to the loss of all but one of the land pieces. But alas, this is so unlikely -- we may never need to know for sure!
Rick
AWorldofChess.com+
Some of those Vietnamese chess piece has the same move as Chinese chess, chess, and Japanese chess
Thanks for that observation.
It's true -- this game is a sort of Chinese chess expanded and made much more complicated.
Chinese chess is one of the most popular board games in Vietnam...
The idea of heroic pieces in Sid Meier's Civilization series most likely came from this game.
Thanks for the interesting comment! I wonder if any other viewers have tried that game. I understand it's available on Steam
I doubt it, or it might be the other way around.
This chess game was only invented somewhere in the late 2000s.
While the civilization series have been going since the early 90s.
Yeh I know, I'm replying to a 3yo comment.
Heroic pieces were in Civilization 3. I don't know if they were in earlier versions.
Modern twist on Chess
Can the Navy fire it's gun before OR after it's move?
I hope you are still reading comments today. (maybe my English is bad)
The first situation is:
I had a tank carrying an infantry, my turn began, the tank and the infantry moved 2 spaces to my militia (after that, 3 pieces stacked on each other), then the infantry left, and the militia went to a new space. Was the movement of them right?
The second situation is:
A navy vessel was carrying an airplane, my turn began, the navy vessel moved forward and check the opposite commander, then it became heroic. The distance between the ship and the commander is 4 spaces, short enough for the airplane to capture the general, so was it right when the airplane flew and destroy the commander then??
The third situation is:
a tank with infantry was checking the opposite commander, if the tank was 2 spaces from the commander, would it be the only piece promoted? And if they were next to the commander, would all 2 pieces become heroic?
Click Replies below to see more my opinion...
A question from KarenSDR about the anti-aircraft and the air force, this is my comment, i'm not sure that you will find this comment, so I copied them:
In the 2nd game of Commander Chess: Determined Victory Squadron, I see the blue anti-aircraft gun went next to the red airplane, but the plane still flew out of the gun and it wasn't shot down.
I think this is the rule: (maybe my English is bad)
About anti-aircraft gun and the navy: if the airplane takes off at the border of the fire circle (Colonel Hai's word for the protected space in the sky) and doesn't fly across it again, it will be safe.
About the missle: if the airplane is 2 space orthogonally from the missile (border of the circle) and doesn't fly across the circle again, it will be safe. if the plane is in the circle, not the border of the circle, it must be landed, or be shot down immediately. The missle also controls 1 space diagonally, I'm talking about 4 diagonal dots, if you draw a circle demonstrating for the range of the missile, you will see the 4 dots is located in the circle, not at the border, so if the airplane stands there, it must remain grounded too.
About both Aa, N, and Ms: an airplane can capture Aa or Ms despite where the plane is locating.
These rules above are probably not created by Colonel Hai. All of them are my opinion.
I'm Vietnamese, I'm living in Vietnam, but I can't buy a set of commander chess, even the rule book. I've searched on the internet for the rule of the game, but I just found the basic rules, not advanced rules. I've watched all of the demonstrating videos in both English and Vietnamese, but no video shows how to solve unclear situations, which are not in the rule book. By answering clearly, you can make the rules more clear and understandable for me and other players who are still confused about the rule. If you still get stuck, I hope you can contact Colonel Hai, because many people and I cannot find his email or Facebook, youtube account. Thank you very much :)
I admit, I started to answer before I saw that you have answered yourself below. I will comment further after your additional messages...but first, please read my starting replies:
I do not understand your first question exactly. Is it correct that you are describing two moves? That is, one move where the Tank/Infantry join the Militia; a second move where the Infantry and Militia move off of the Tank (both in one move). Is this what you are describing? I think that would be 2 correct moves.
The second situation:
I believe that this action could be done, but it would take two moves. In the first move, both the Navy and Air Force put the enemy Commander in check (both becoming Heroic pieces). On the next move, if the Commander is still in range of capture (now 5 spaces because of Heroic status), the Commander may be captured.
Third one: When the Tank/Infantry is 2 spaces from the Commander, only the Tank becomes Heroic; When they are 1 space (exactly beside) the Commander, both pieces become Heroic...
Now let's see you're further comments....
@@milkystudy4u Please see my reply to that one under the video it refers to: ruclips.net/video/19hsNAIAOTI/видео.html
@@milkystudy4u I will contact Colonel Hai, and see if he will answer questions for you directly. I'm sure communicating with him in Vietnamese will be best. In the meantime, please send a message to my contact page, so that we may begin connecting by email www.ancientchess.com/page/contact-form.htm
Goooood
Where could I buy this?
very good, from Viet Nam with love
Wow! I have waited for this video. Seems like a complicated game with some really nice features!
Thank you, Rick, for bringing this game to our part of the world!
barkbagarn Thanks for the message! I'll have the sets selling online soon...
Hi, I have some rules questions:
1. Can a heroic tank cross the river diagonally?
2. 22:25 How come the game hasn't already ended because of no Air or Navy pieces? Is this just the last 'land' piece?
3. It mentions Air being able to fly over other pieces, what about heroic tanks, are they blocked from moving if they encounter another piece, (their own or opponents?)
4. Does a heroic Navy increase it's Anti-Aircraft range too?
Thanks for the good questions. First, let me mention that you can download the full rule booklet (set for printing) here veryspecial.us/free-downloads/AncientChess.com-CommanderChess.pdf
Now, to your questions:
1. Yes, the Heroic status allows the tank the diagonal move. There is no exception fo river crossing
2. This section of the video is only to demonstrate moves. It does not show a full game situation. You are right, such a situation would already be game-over.
3. The Heroic status does not give ordinary pieces any power of moving through pieces on the board.
4. The Heroic Navy piece has an increase in range for shooting other pieces, but does not increase its air space control area.
@@AncientChess Thanks for the amazingly quick reply.
So for 2. I assume it's the last 'land' piece (other than the commander) that gains heroic status.
3. I guess this means that only the Aircraft has the ability to jump over other pieces, like a Knight in standard chess.
FYI, I have started development of this game on BoardGameArena.
@@ricardorix73 That's fantastic! Please update us as it becomes available. I find this URL for that site: en.boardgamearena.com/
If you would like to contact me directly outside of RUclips, please follow the contact link at AncientChess.com. After that, we can email each other directly ... and I can put you in touch with Colonel Hai if you are not already.
@@ricardorix73 Thanks for your further comment. I see I had not understood the question '2'. Yes, I think that must be the intention, that it is the last 'land' piece (besides the Commander himself). I don't find that rule mentioned in the rule booklet -- it probably rarely comes into play.
Yes, it is only the AirForce that actually moves over other pieces, intended to be like real life.
quite interesting that not much Vietnamese know this game :\
Oh, this game is not nearly so widespread as the traditional xiangqi, or even international chess -- this is a new game. But it's getting an amazing amount of promotion from its creator. Search Cờ tư lệnh on RUclips and on the internet and you'll see what I mean
the first time I heard about it is about 5 years ago - 2012, and since then, I hardly find it in it's hometown
Very interesting! Thanks for the report from the home town! From the pictures the inventor, Nguyễn Quí Hải, has sent me, it appears that he's mostly promoting this in elementary schools and military academies.
I don't think it will have the mass interest that other chess forms have, because this one is very complicated ... it takes a bit of study just to understand how to play! Still, it will be interesting to see what comes of it. This really has been getting much more promotion than other new variants.
I play boardgames, so learning to play this is nothing to me. but I think the problem of it is it's too difficult to play as a chess game, and the map is not changeable to have a replay value
I see what you mean. In ways, it's more like a war board game, but with less flexibility. My greatest interest in it is just that it is new, inspired by chess (xiangqi), and getting such a promotional push
How many pieces can be carried ? 3,4,5 or 6 ?
Interesting question! I haven't seen anything too indicate a limitation ... though I imagine a stack 6-high could be a little wobbly! I'll be interested to know if you find a game where the quantity of riders makes a big difference...
I thought commander can move up to 10 squares
that's basically the length of the board so why not let you just go the full way. The board is only 12 by 9 (plus 3 for sea)
I want to know how he got the idea of sea and river in the chess board. Can you tell me?
Colonel Hai, who created this game, is a veteran of the American war in Vietnam. Viewing vietnam from the North, facing the South, the ocean is always on the left. Many rivers cut between the north and south, all letting out into the sea. No particular river is indicated, but this position of facing the south, ocean at left, river between North and South forces represents the many strategic positions held during that war.
What would happen when a piece capture a stack of pieces?
(sorry bad English)
Thanks for asking this good question. Your English is perfectly good. If pieces are stacked up together, they can be captured all at once, in one move.
Where can I buy this?
can the engineer kill?
A cineess Canon has to shot over another piece
Thanks for the comment. Yes, Chinese chess (xiangqi) is the chess game most popular throughout Vietnam. The cannon in that game is a very interesting piece. Here is a link on how to play xiangqi
ruclips.net/video/0UuDiL9CLPI/видео.html
If I've being honest the game has some good ideas but i really find some rules kinda weird tbh
Of course, we expect 100% respectful honesty from our commentators.
Colonel Hai, who created this game, intended to simulate the realities of 20th century warfare the best he could in a chess format. I think it's bound to be peculiar then, both as a chess game and as a military strategy review.
And of course, he has infused it with his own preferences.
To me what stands out is how complex it is, compared to a typical game based on chess.
What do you find especially weird? I know you're being honest with us...
@@AncientChess hmm true, but it's probs my own bias, i just find that the "heroic rules" bit out of place and the unnecessarily complicated end game objectives, which is alright it's fun 2 have multiple objects but the "Destroy the 2 aircrafts and win" is something which weakens the strategy for me atleast
@@abdullahmalik267 yeah, good point, the heroic rule seems kind of arbitrary, complicated and you have to remember who is heroic (not indicated on the pieces)...
Would love to see game reviews or matches! Very interesting
Here is a link to some related videos
ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=C%E1%BB%9D+t%C6%B0+l%E1%BB%87nh
... and here is the page with sample games
ancientchess.com/commander-chess/index.htm
Enjoy!
@@AncientChess thank you brother! I am a chess-Baduk player but I have recently taken interest in Shogi very much, also Xiangqi, Janggi ... This looks incredibly interesting! I’ll have to look for an app to play it
@@longball756 I have recently been told that someone is working on an online application for this game. When it is ready, it should be appearing on en.boardgamearena.com/
It is great to hear of your interest in all of these games! I hope you enjoy the resources at my site, AncientChess.com
I ve been playing this chess with my dad for 5 year but I never win
This is very interesting to hear! How did you and your dad first learn about the game? Do you know other people who are playing it?
@@AncientChess mr nguyen quy hai once came to my school and teach us playing this chess
He gave me a book about it and my dad got interested in playing this chess and we played together since that time
I don t know many people who play it but all of my friend who know abuot it play with me sometime
Were should I buy this I can't find it
+Technical Sam Sorry, I had to take my listing down temporarily. eBay is making its sellers jump through a new series of hoops and it will take a while for me to adapt my listings one at a time. If you contact me directly through the web site I can sell you one, otherwise, I'll have them listed again within the next few days
+AncientChess How much does it cost. If I have enough I will probably buy one.
+Technical Sam Thanks asking. I have them listed again on my AncientChess.com site (link there takes you to eBay listings). The set with plastic pieces is $55 and the wooden set (only one left) is $68. Prices include postage within the U.S. You can also contact me directly through my web site contact if you don't want to go through eBay
Can Headquarter become heroic piece? And if it become heroic piece can it move?
Thanks, interesting question. I don't think there is any way for Headquarters to become a Heroic Piece. To be come Heroic, a piece must put the opposing General in check (threatening to capture the General) ... and the Headquarters cannot do that because they do not have a move which would make a threat of capture possible.
But I had read the rules of commander chess and it said that if the Headquarter is the last piece that protect Commander will become heroic piece.
@@kaungsett2475 Ah, this is a good point. I think that rule did not make it into my rule booklet, but it was an oversight. By that logic, it would be possible for the headquarters to move one point any direction. I will run the question by Colonel Hai if I have a chance, but I would think that you are correct.
If you ask Colonel Hai and know the answer, let me also know about it.
I want to know the best opening moves of Commander Chess. Can you show us video for the best opening moves?
So difficult
Yeah, really much more complicated to follow the rules than the usual chess variants. I think that will severely limit how popular this idea can be. But those who play it enjoy it very much
Your voice sounds old. [ no offense ]