Debate on Political Crisis & Violent Deaths in Nicaragua: Camilo Mejía vs. Julio Martinez Ellsberg
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- democracynow.org - The U.N. high commissioner for human rights says the death toll from anti-government protests in Nicaragua is approaching 300, as an escalating crisis in the country reaches its third month. Both opposition groups and pro-government forces are accused of violence, including kidnappings and killings. We host a debate with Julio Martinez Ellsberg, adviser to one of the main student movements opposing the Nicaraguan government, and Camilo Mejía, well-known Nicaraguan-American Iraq War resister and son of the famed Sandinista singer Carlos Mejía Godoy.
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The guest in Pittsburgh never got around to answering why his father turned his back on the government.
Because Democracy Now gave much more time to the guest in the studio.
Before you guys draw conclusions based on who you trust, talk to actual Nicaraguans, people who are living through this right now and tell them if it's just terrorists. The US definitely doesn't care about Nicaragua, but that doesn't mean that the civil unrest is created by them. Daniel Ortega and Rosario Murillo have been eroding the election system there for years.
TRUTH
Lol
"Eroding elections" . . . interesting statement. The U.S. election system has never been fair. Keep the U.S. nose out of other countries . . . .
If you're looking for more on this, check out the Media Roots and Moderate Rebels podcasts, where Max Blumenthal and Camilo describe what's really going on.
his grandad was a CIA whistle-blower while he is just a CIA stooge. talk about hereditary rights...
Actually his grandfather completely agrees with him. They both spoke together at an event in Oakland the other night along with 2 other young people from Nicaragua - a young woman leader of the feminist movement opposed to Ortega's abolition of abortion and the govt repression, and an Afro-Nicaraguan human rights activist opposed to the government's brutal treatment of indigenous people and general abrogation of democratic principles. You need to rethink your simplistic U.S. leftist lens and actually talk to leftist Nicaraguans, like my family and like Camilo Mejia's dad (former Sandinista and vocal critic of Ortega....like pretty much all high-level Sandinistas from the 80's).
@@solespace9579 US leftist??? The most hawkish, plutocratic and religiously fanatic empire in history? Are you crazy? Or just dumb?
Rayhunter: I didn't say the U.S. govt was leftist, that would be ridiculous. Please re-read. I was referring to you. I assumed -perhaps mistakenly - that you are like the U.S.-based leftists I'm dealing with out here that are defending Ortega since he used to be progressive.
@@solespace9579 from what I can see outside, the public debate in the US has been intentionally (?) reduced to the less important non-issues like everything-related-to-genitalia, skin color, other primitive stuff, fake dichotomies. The actually important issues like war, economics, climate change are rarely even mentioned.
I am very disappointed by the conclusion of what started out as a very promising discussion. The video clip supporting Mr. Ellberg's position took a chunk of time as did his analysis of it while Mr. Mejia was not given an opportunity to respond to the last set of allegations. Julio Martinez Ellsberg? I'd like to hear his grandfather's take on this crisis.
Actually, his grandfather is in complete agreement with Julio's take, they spoke together 2 nights ago at an event in Oakland along with 2 other very credible youth organizers from Nicaragua. I encourage you to talk with actual Nicaraguans, like my family members and the many left activists there committed to Sandino's legacy, and not rely on talking points from Camilo in Pittsburgh.
THANK YOU JULIO FOR SAYING THE TRUTH! Camilo, your dad is an honorable man. So sad you are NOT!
you do not know who the mother is? she is quite something special. Maybe he may not be the father after all.
Who to support :
Find out which side the United States Government supports then choose the opposite...
The United States Agenda has become the Nazi agenda.
Isarel support the Nazis, See Ukraine, Poland...
TheNExt Turn wrote: "Find out which side the United States Government supports then choose the opposite..." This statement is so historically sound when it comes to Latin America, there remains little left to say.
Israel supports the Nazis in Ukraine, Poland etc.
Lets Have A Discussion
No, I wouldn't support the United States.
Can you do something like this for Venezuela
Sad to see Democracy Now giving much more time to the guy in their studio. And then to bring in Daniel Ellsberg's name to bolster the guy's position. Very sad, and very un-journalistic. Also, why is the U.S. sticking its nose (again) into another country? Certainly not to bring "freedom and democracy" - If the U.S. plutocracy wanted that they'd send in the Peace Corp, not try to overthrow a government.
This is no difference than what happened in Libya, Ukraine and Syria. Shame on Julio Martinez Ellsberg. You can bet that Julio gets money from the US Government.
Shame on you for repeating bs. There is a diffirence. If you make such claims connect the dots for us. Don't make such claims and bunch Libya, Ukraine and Syria in one basket. Each of these nations have individual histories full of atrocities and western led genocides
Libya- Qaddafi-Italy-oil-US-Hillary Clinton,
Ukraine-Russian Federation rights to Crimea (Russian Fed bases)-USA-imperial role.
Syria-Israel-Russian Fed-USA-US funding total destruction of Syria-
Nicaragua-Ortega-USA chamber of Commerce-free tax zones for US corporations-no labor standards-US companies investing 51million per year into Nicaragua under Ortega-Murrillo gov. Ortega gov Expropriating lands of campesinos, etc, etc
Listen to Camilo Godoy. He is spot on in his analysis. Mr. Julio Martinez is simply not believable. No mention of the US support and creation of the so called opposition.
Hi Juan and Amy ! Great job. Thank you !
My family is from Monimbó and all of them are still Sandinista; my uncle was jailed by Somoza. Like many, I lost family members fighting in the revolution. I am committed to a leftist and progressive agenda. But we don't support and are against Ortega. Ortega stopped representing the historic Sandinista party in the 90s. Monimbó was a bastion and the craddle of the Sandinista revolution until 3 months ago. Today it is the cradle and bastion of the civil protest to this regime. There are probably more Sandinistas protesting Ortega than whatever support, often paid, he has in his pseudo-left political party. The sooner the Global Left recognizes that since 2011 Ortega has not been a leftist progressive government, the better for us. Stop always crying wolf(US imperialist intervention) on everything that goes wrong in Latin America. It is an uncritical and somewhat simplified and cookie-cutter understanding of what happens in the region. Yes, the US tries to meddle and spread its imperialist agenda. Yes, the US is trying to see how this popular civic uprising can benefit its agenda, just like they did in the Arab Spring; We Nicaraguans are not naïve or stupid. Stop nicaexplaing! We are not being financed by the US government, the CIA or "right" groups. Obviously Nicaragua destabalizes the region and it is of interest to have peace restored. This is a heterogeneous popular movement born out of civil unrest growing over the last 5 years. Don't desligitimatize it as a people movement just because you see some Republicans supporting the cause. The question is, why isn't the Global Left supporting Nicaraguans human rights and dignity? Why aren't you helping us seek social justice? Why isn't the left making sure that no one tries to impose their interest or usurp(US or right groups) many of the grassroot leaders and movements that have organically risen from this unrest? Why are you being complicit with an authoritarian and killer regime? Realize that the left isn't immune to corruption or authoritarian regimes that only rule for oligarchs and big capital. Be critical and don't be ideologically myopic!
^^ THIS
So then what about the eyewitnesses in Monimbo, interviewed by Max Blumenthal in Nicaragua, about invading gangs who entered the neighborhood and set up the barricades to terrorize the locals? When the government finally acted to remove these terrorists, the locals welcomed the liberation of their neighborhood, as shown by the huge crowds that came out to support the Sandinistas after order was restored. Since English-speaking Nicaraguans come mostly from the Upper Classes, we don't get to hear the peasants and workers who overwhelmingly prefer Ortega to the oligarchy that has historically served themselves, international capital, and the interests of the United States government.
Max was on a guided tour presented by the regime. Which is why he noticed that the 'hired protection' around him had the military style weapons, no one else. He said "I didn't notice any signs of oppression.". Of course he didn't. The tour is rigged to favor the regime. simple. that is what propaganda is. (think about Dennis Rodman going to N. Korea, same thing) Everything looks fine, everything is normal. Don't be gullible. Taking a tour sponsored by the regime is also a conflict of interest. Let's not ignore when Ortega comes to town, the doors are locked up and only a few of his paid cultist, through intimidation of arrest are out there to cheer for him. He took selfies with the armed masked mob. You need to look into this more and if you want to know about invading gangs, those are Ortega's people, also look into land grabs. The peasants don't like Ortega either, they are also speaking out when they finally realize they've been duped. This is why you hear, "I am Sandanista not Orteguista" think about that long and hard.
Blumenthal has been around for a long time. I find it doubtful he could be fooled.@@eanymeanyminymo
@@arnystieber732 that's not a good enough argument to claim 'that he's right'. He's not. You can say that about anyone, and it means nothing, it proves nothing. The facts have more weight than your bias.
Wow Mr Mejia how shameful of you ,not even somoza was so brutal,these people are unarmed .
Ortega is a killer .
Another thing if you were for peace why did you joined the USA army?
You mounted a Broadway show as an act of narcissism.
@29:14 Ellsberg really puts Camilo in his place
©™ ALX⚖ Observations ✍ ✍
Daniel Ortega needs to step down.
Too much baggage.
Leave the future to younger men and women who will carry on with the dream.
Julio Martinez, capaz, realista , sobre todo humano 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Regime* not president
Camilo sounds like Joe Biden. Or the left wing in America. He is delusional
Camilo Mejia is delusional. He can't see beyond his 5 minutes of fame as a conscientious objector.
Announcer: Talk about Nicaragua.
Mejia: The USA lied about Iraq...
Vive Nicaragua, vive los Sandinistas!!
DemNow, thanks for trying to bring the Nicaraguan issue to the international conversation. However, I find this format to miss the opportunity to layout the degree of the Crisis and the repression against the people of Nicaragua. For an uneducated viewer on the Nicaragua's crisis could believe either. The truth is that the government is shooting its citizens to kill them. Anyone with opposing view or perceived as having opposing positions are suspects. There is no excuse for such behavior from any government. DemNow should have provided a background and then let the invitees to respond. This vet may have legitimize regarding US issues; but it lacks depth on Nicaraguan issues. He simply reads a script provided to him...uhhmmmm!
DemNow--please invite people who can truly debate the crisis.
is that a esvásticaish in the flag with the letters? But, Yankees go home!
Camilo isn't responding to the points that Ellsberg is making. He's just reading off the Sandinista PR handbook.
I am an anarcho-socialist, something VERY VERY FAR from being right wing. I critique heavily what the US is doing to VEnezuela and what the US is doing to Cuba.
NEVERTHELESS, this is that one case where the USA cries wolf, saying the truth, but because the USA has lied so much in the past, many will not believe the USA.
I am fine with that.
I personally have seen over 500 hours of footage, read hundreds of pages of reports. I have family in Nicaraguan GOVT, and I am not going to disclose the names. My family has been part of Somoza, Sandinistas, and even Ortega's government and we still are.
The EVIDENCE is irrefutable, the raw footage by the poor people, the students, and the peasants, and farmers... all of them are making the unequivocal case that Ortega is being nothing short of a brutal dictator, a murderer, and totally determined to silence protests with use of force and fear.
it HURTS the poor people to have the USA on their side. Because the USA has a horrible record of lying.
I however want to let every one know that the people are correct, even long before the USA joined.
The USA is piggy backing on the struggle the poor , the young, and ordinary people are doing and carrying on.
Ortega's interviews, watch all of them; you will see he is changing the stories and the versions of those stories as tome goes on.
I welcome all who speak and understand Spanish fluently to watch all the footage and video evidence and to read.
Go ahead, go Read or watch "Confidencial" , "Radio Corporación" (nothing to do with the corporate channel, just in case) "100% Noticias", "Acción 10",
See all the footage, the reports, and so on.
If you don't put in the time to learn and watch, you will be at a huge disadvantage.
Ortega NEVER EVER wanted socialism for Nicaragua. He is a fascist oligarch. He is with the richest of Nicaragua, and it's him and the elites first, second, and third. Everyone else can eat shit.
This was his intent since the Sandinistas, under Ortega, took power. He is a traitor of Sandino, the heart and inspiration of the Sandinistas. Ortega is a fraud. He is now the second richest person in Nicaragua, second only to a multibillionaire, a man who is among the richest on the whole planet.
How the fuck do you become so rich , just you and your family , in Nicaragua, by being in political power ? It's a rhetorical question.
The USA is using this struggle to hurt Cuba and Venezuela. The intent is evil, however , the people are correct.
The people of Nicaragua ARE TOTALLY DESPERATE, and they do not want more sons and daughters killed nor tortured, and they do not want their journalists being tortured, beat down, and killed either.
Again, it hurts Nicaragua that the USA is on this issue.
The truth is the truth, and this is that one time, where the truth is being told by the ordinary people and a bully of the world has decided to join them.
But people want Ortega to face justice for what he has done. They will accept help from whoever will offer it.
It is sad that the USA is the one piggy backing on this issue.
I'm going to copy and paste this on facebook. TRUTH!
Digital Enalog thank you
So who tf killed 200 plus Sandinistas who tf is burning leftist radio stations who tf is burning our houses who tf is torturing Sandinistas, don’t turn a blind eye to the brutality of the opposition.
Will, ask the National Police officers who fled for not abusing citizens(following orders). Orteguistas don’t care about Sandanistas. big clue for you. you’re welcome.
Digital Enalog while you guys allie yourself with somocitas, and former contras. You even have this students literally with the us government, the very people who help with Sandino murder.
Nicaragua is NOT our fuckn problem
let me spare you the minutes you are about to spend listening to Camilo Mejia speak, its the same rhetoric as before. If you have ever heard him, once is enough. He has memorized his speech that he can recite it while asleep and not missed a word.
It’s time for us to separate our nostalgia for the Sandinista Revolution from the personality that is DANIEL ORTEGA.
by Katie Scaief
A Letter to my Fellow U.S. Americans:
It’s time for us to separate our nostalgia for the Sandinista Revolution from the personality that is Daniel Ortega. Nicaraguans did so long ago. That nostalgia, combined with our shame over the U.S.’s completely atrocious involvement in Nicaragua’s Contra War, is paralyzing us into inaction at a time when many Nicaraguans are asking the global community for solidarity.
Perhaps you haven’t heard.
Since April 19th more than 360 Nicaraguans have been killed and more than 2,000 injured in what can only be described as a violent government crackdown on unarmed civilians who have been exercising their constitutional right to peaceful protest and who have been demanding Ortega’s resignation since the government violence began. People continue to die nearly every day that the crisis continues.
Police and pro-government militia armed with AK47s and Dragunov sniper rifles have been fanning out throughout towns after breaching citizen-raised protective barricades, and shooting into residences with children and elderly inside in a hunt for anyone who has participated in or supported the protests. People have been killed for carrying the Nicaraguan flag in their car, which has become a symbol of the anti-Orteguista uprising. Former Sandinista revolutionaries have lost their children to government bullets. Pro-government forces have assaulted priests, ambushed and defaced churches, burned families alive, and transported weapons and paramilitaries via ambulance. Public hospitals have denied medical attention to the wounded, leaving them to die.
The economy is shrinking, businesses are closing, and hundreds of thousands of people are without work. Food is scarce and prices are rising. People are withdrawing money from banks at accelerating rates. Some experts warn that if the crisis continues through August some banks could fail, the economy risks collapse, and the country could experience hyperinflation.
Just months ago, Nicaragua was one of the most popular tourist destinations in Central America. It has not been plagued by gang violence as its neighbors to the north. This could change as Ortega employs and arms pro-government mobs to instill chaos and fear, unleashing a beast that he may eventually be unable to control. The barrier that once sat between the cartels and Costa Rica could weaken. Costa Rica has already experienced a flood of refugees from Nicaragua. Further destabilization in the region could exacerbate an already overwhelming refugee crisis here in the U.S.
But don’t listen to me. Listen to Nicaraguans.
Listen to the more than 360 dead who can no longer speak but whose absence screams, “Presente!”
Listen to the university students, who were the first to lose their comrades in peaceful protest and who have been at the helm of this uprising. Listen to the more than 500,000 Nicaraguans who took to the streets on Nicaragua’s Mother’s Day, May 30th, in solidarity with the mothers who have lost their sons and daughters to state-sponsored violence. Listen to the farmers, who have been organized in peaceful protest for more than five years to resist a government concession to a foreign company for a canal that would remove them from their land, and who joined in solidarity with the university students after the initial police attacks. Listen to regular civilians, who raised more than 170 roadblocks on highways throughout the country to pressure Ortega to resign.
#SOSNicaragua #GritoporNicaragua #ProhibidoOlvidar
Listen to the Nicaraguan diaspora that has organized rallies in more than 100 cities around the world and continues to spread the word. #SOSNicaraguaGlobal
Listen to the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, the Organization of American States, Amnesty International, the European Union, and the United Nations, who have all, along with the U.S., condemned the Nicaraguan government for the violence.
Why has the coverage in the major English language press been so scant? What can you do?
Read news from independent media in Nicaragua and use a translator tool.
Join with English language speakers around the world who are trying to learn more about the Nicaragua crisis and make Nicaraguan news accessible to English speakers. #StandWithNicaragua, Stand With Nicaragua English Facebook Group
Join the Global Day of Mourning for Nicaragua on July 19th, marking three months since this violent crackdown began. Wear black, light candles, and bring flowers, signs or Nicaraguan flags to a public space in your community. Take photos and share them on social media to let Nicaraguans know you #StandWithNicaragua.
#SOSNicaraguaGlobal #GritoporNicaragua #ProhibidoOlvidar
Nicaraguans are asking the global community for solidarity, not a savior. It’s critical that Nicaraguans maintain complete control of their democratization process. But they can’t do that until the violence stops, and the violence must stop immediately. Please help spread the word, and continue to listen to Nicaraguans, as their needs may change with time.
medium.com/@katie.scaief/its-time-for-us-to-separate-our-nostalgia-for-the-sandinista-revolution-from-the-personality-that-5c95d8019bbc
Are you seriously trying to spin the Ortega propaganda myths here?
It takes no courage for Sr. Mejía to subserviently parrot Chayista propaganda from the safety of his cozy home in the Imperial North. If he is such a patriotic Orteguista, why doesn’t he put his ass where his mouth is? Perhaps it is because today it is a crime to be a young male in Nicaragua - in all of the pueblos blancos, the young men have fled to the hills. Ortega-Murillo is taking a page right out of the government playbooks of El Salvador & Guatemala in the 80s.
Sr. Mejía’s performance here is an embarrassment to his father and uncle, who wrote the soundtrack to the Insurrection and Revolution and today stand courageously and unequivocally with the Opposition. His shameless defense of brutal violence, massacre, and genocide is an embarrassment to Veterans for Peace. He is as AWOL in Nicaragua today as he was AWOL in Iraq, sin verguenza.
¡El Pueblo Unido jamás será vencido!
Camilo Mejia promotes Ortega's bullshit, and his own political agenda which should not be imposed on this current issue. this as nothing to do with past conflicts. it's 2018 and it's similar but only in this way: Ortega, Samosa son la misma costa(ortega, samosa are the same thing) . That's the only comparison that should be made. (The people vs. a dictator) Ortega has disgraced his party, and it may not be salvageable. "United under one flag, blue and white" is an inclusive movement in solidarity among the people. It's inclusive to those who have a sole interest in human rights, democracy, and peace no matter the party. the only reason FSLN is being excluded by many is because they've been co-opted by Ortega's mobs, it will remain this way until their corrupt leadership steps down or is removed. currently the suppression is disgusting, and inhumane. There is no excuse or justification for this outrageous attack on the country's people. The impoverished, the farmers, the students, the MAJORITY have made their flying known: THE PEOPLE WANT: FAIR ELECTIONS/DEMOCRACY, THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS, and for ORTEGA/MURRILLO TO STEP DOWN. When you're a leader of the people, and the majority people tell you to leave, you leave. Camilo is a shameless self promoter and has no interest in doing what's right here. His appearances will continue to be protested until this scab goes away. Maybe he should go to to Nicaragua and live there,(because he never has) he has no idea what's really going on but assumes it is (the same as the past). Shame on him.
WOW Camilo is completely repeating Ortega's talking points. Unbelievable! a tyrant is a tyrant is a tyrant Camilo. What are you doing???? defending Ortega????