This topic is becoming a hot one. I’m not going to ride the fence or pretend that FFS isn’t affecting the fishery. I’ll take the heat of comments. I started using FFS in 2019 in regards to musky fishing on the SJR and increased my musky catch x 4 times the previous years. Fish in places I’d never fished before were smashing baits in the 20-35 ft range. It was an incredible increase in catches and I was sold. I was finding bigger fish, more fish, able to pattern the fish and learned so much about the fish behaviour. All seemed great right? Until by 2022, I noticed the fish had adapted to mostly ignoring my presentations, swimming away rather than attacking the baits. They had caught on, catches reduced and the biggest issue was that where I had found numbers of open water fish became vacant of fish for the most part. Had they moved, was there dead loss due to catching to much fish too often. A few other anglers started to follow my pattern of fishing and noticed the same results. They’ll deny that it changed the fishery because of self serving needs. But, I have seen the difference and can’t deny it. I’ve now changed how I use FFS and use it a bit different now trying to reduce my impact. A person can’t deny facts and proof in real life to spoil themselves with numbers of fish. I believe that FFS has the ability to decimate a musky population as they aren’t as resilient enough to survive repeated catches, constant pressure with no place of refuge or out of the anglers reach to recoup.
This is exactly how I feel but for all species of fish. IMO it’s no longer fair chase. I compare it to using a drone while deer or elk hunting to pick and choose
Great job, Doug. Thanks for making this video. Guides and people in the musky fishing business need to be speaking up and sharing their thoughts rather than staying silent. I'm glad to hear that you're on the side of taking care of the fish first and foremost. That should be the position of every fisherman. These are scarce resources we have to manage. The main problem with FFS, as well as side-imaging, is makes it easier to catch more fish and larger fish. That isn't a problem in an of itself, but it becomes a problem since it incentivizes guides (and content creators) to use it since they make their living putting clients on fish. Whoever can catch the most fish, as well as the largest fish, will make the most money guiding, at least in theory. That monetary incentive is hard to turn down for a lot of guys. They're putting themselves, their spouses, their kids, and whoever else all ahead of the fish and the fishery. They rationalize it. I do all of my musky fishing in northern Wisconsin. I practice my own self-imposed 80-degrees rule in an attempt to minimize stress on the fish, although as the years have gone by I don't do much musky fishing during the Summer time anymore, so I don't really have to worry about high water temps to begin with. I just hit the age of 40, and I just don't really have a desire to do any Summer fishing anymore. The only exception to that is the annual Summer trip I do with my friend, and all of that fishing is done on remote, carry-in only lakes with a canoe. That can be really exceptional and magical in general. I do most of my musky fishing with the boat from mid-September through early November or until there's ice, etc. Regarding barotrauma and other things, the bottom line is that we have next to no scientific data about muskies, much less any other fish. Thus, we should play on the safe side and always lean towards the safety and handling of the fish. Regarding suspending muskies, this is something that's been known and written about since at least the 1970s. Tony Rizzo was writing about it from his experience on northern Wisconsin waters going back then. He and others were already guiding clients on suspended fish, at least as early as the 1970s. I personally will never purchase FFS nor use it. The use of side-imaging is already a bit too much for me. I mainly use SI for identifying structure and cover, not fish. Live/auto charting is also amazing, especially for lakes with no maps. I don't know if this is true, but it seems like I've caught fewer fish since I started using SI. It's almost as if the fish are aware of it and associate it with danger. This is just a theory, but I've heard it from other fisherman and guides who are out there. In addition, another reason I won't use FFS, or perhaps even side-imaging in the future, is that it removes an element of fair chase. Just my two cents.
Respect you for bringing this up. I know on Leech last year one of the guides had quite a few dead fish surfacing around the places that he had guided. He’s Mr. King sharpshooter. I don’t want to get into a pissing match with anybody, but I think we all need to be a little bit more conscientious About fishing deeper than 20 feet. I know this Guide was catching fish out of 40 and 50 feet deep.((((I think by bringing this issue up will make people a little bit more aware of those dangers. I appreciate you bringing awareness to this issue since Muskie fishing is also one of the main things in my life.
@@dougwegnerfishingyes it makes me sad. You know who he is but I just hope without forcing people, which I think is the wrong way to persuade, but rather talking about it they will be more careful. Thanks again Doug. You were a good ambassador for the sport. You obviously care about the fish just like I do.
My first guided trip I have been on was done with FFS. It was fun catching the fish, but I feel as if I didn't learn anything about musky fishing, it just taught me how to use live scope. We were catching fish at the bottom in 40-60 feet of water, and I had no idea the dangers of this. FFS is definitely a dangerous tool, and should only be used as such.
Good stuff Doug. I have also seen a fish come straight off the bottom in 26' while casting a shoreline and take a look at my bait. Someone without a scope can easily catch that fish and never know that it might have been in a dangerous situation. Probably the worst thing that's come from FSS for me personally is that it has taken all the mystery out of musky fishing and therefore taken out the fun. Like you said, in MN they use open water more than anyone really ever knew before. Now you can almost do a population estimate of a fishery in a few days of fishing and know where a large portion of the fish are at any given time. We know too much.
I’m a former FFS owner, and I used it pretty darn effectively for a couple years. The longer I had it, the more I began to hate it, so I sold it. I’ll admit, at first it was fun, and a great learning tool, but eventually catching fish with live sonar just did not sit right with me ethically. It became easy and unrewarding, which is the exact opposite reason I fell in love with musky fishing. It’s frustrating knowing now that anyone that isn’t a complete moron can simply buy this stuff and boat a pile of fish with little to no knowledge or any learned skills around musky fishing. Live sonar is also not in anyway comparable to any other electronics out there. Nothing else allows you to find, follow, dial in presentations, and watch live interaction between fish and your lures in real time. If anyone has used it and says otherwise they are just being ridiculous. There is no more hunt or element of surprise with FFS. I’ve seen what it can do first hand and I just don’t believe it’s good for the health of fisheries or for the sport. There are more fish being caught since FFS than ever before, how long is this sustainable for muskies ? Why do we need the easy way out ? Not many sticks left out there embracing the grind anymore…
Wow good for you man that’s some crazy insight. I would be all for a ban but I don’t think it’s possible so I believe it’s time to educate as much as possible. Everything is at our finger tips now days and we all want things to be easy it’s sad.
I see myself as a multi-species angler, but my passion has always been with musky. I have always been on the side of putting the fish first. I haven't even caught a lot of fish. I typically catch 8-10 a year. I have had fish that I wanted to get a picture with, but observed the fish wasn't doing great so I lowered the net and the fish swam off. No measurement or picture and that's fine. Fish handling is the number one thing to protecting the fishery! I see FFS as a tool, it's a fish finder and it helps the angler find the fish. Yes, it enhances the anglers chances for a catch as it shows the fish reaction to a bait and how it's being worked. However, live sonar has been available in ice fishing applications for decades! I also agree with your take, that musky anglers all need to use and apply good ethics in their approach to angling a specific fish and especially renewed emphasis on proper handling!
Good stuff, Doug. Note that Muskies Inc. now has a position on "sharpshooting." I encourage you to put out an update segment to promote that. Gord Pyzer has mentioned that released fish that are not strong enough to keep upright may "drown," so a bit of merit to sticking with the fish until it is strong. I would say perhaps not a terrible idea to take a fish shallower as they are likely to recover on the bottom most likely, and especially if exhausted. It is apparent with big muskies that they exhaust themselves easily and have a longer recovery time that smaller ones - clearly must be related to circulation and not ridding the blood of lactic acid and potassium. Always urgency with these big fish to get them back. Colder the water the greater the O2 concentration and hence better outcomes as far as recovery and resiliency.
Somebody had to step up and ask these questions. Thank you for being the one to step forward and bring to light the tough questions that need to be discussed. I doubt we’ll see a ban on FFS, but would hope that one day a law would pass that supports proper ethics and care for our fish species.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness, Doug. I'm really worried for the future our musky fishing sport. Our fisheries were already overpressured and in some cases understocked. This could have a huge impact on quality of fisheries due to the added stress. It could be even worse in lakes/fisheries that rely on natural reproduction. I'm not interested in the technology myself because I think it crosses the line of fair chase and takes some of the fun and mystery out of fishing. The fact that I have to hope others are as thoughtful as you are in not damaging the fishery by overstressing fish more is not comforting. At a minimum, I think states with stocking programs, like Minnesota, need to proactively ramp up stocking (if possible) and raise revenue (that I'll gladly pay my part on) to do so. But like you said, these trophy fish are 20 years old, and stocking takes a while and is more of a long-term strategy with a delay in when you see results. Thanks for the thoughtful discussion.
I appreciate your insight on this topic. Given the knowledge we have about how fragile muskies are and how difficult some of these populations are to maintain especially in Minnesota, I am personally convinced that the MNDNR needs to strongly consider a ban on FFS for Musky. Yes, I know everyone is scared of the word "Ban", but it is no different than thermal scopes being illegal for hunting one species but not another. FFS is not fair chase for musky. Not that it is necessarily fair chase for other species either, but I feel species like walleyes and crappie populations are protected by natural reproduction and stocking rates. Assuming the mortality rate for musky catches is 5-10%; regardless of where the fish is caught, we are losing more fish due to increased catch rates which will further decline the populations.
Part of Muskie fishing has always been time on the water trying to figure these animals out. This technology changes the term “ fishing”. I don’t like it. Especially on small bodies of water. All these years of catch and release to support fisheries may be undone by technology.
Ffs was banned from pmtt and I agree with it. Witnessing people still use it, and seeing anglers fish musky out of season for their next social media pic will kinda make u lose faith in the everyday angler. There’s some prime examples on RUclips Of why it’s not good for musky. An inexperienced musky angler can go sharp shoot a fish not knowing how to even work a lure or handle a fish. And If they can’t do that you can’t expect them to know not to fish them deep. 0.5 fish an average per acre in a populated musky lake makes them too valuable of a resource. Yes ffs won’t make them bite, but if you dangle a bull dawg in front of their face apparently it will still work.
Doug, great video. You brought up some great points and honestly it takes a lot of guts to say what you did in the current social climate of musky fishing. I personally don’t see ffs having a place in musky fishing simply because it is making muskies less cool. A few years ago it would be much more intriguing to hear about someone catching a musky. Nowadays they are getting caught at much higher rates with this technology and often times by more inexperienced people. It’s not very hard to drive around until you see a fish with the cheat box on and throw a pull pause bait at it. It takes away the grind and elusiveness that are trademark of the species. I am worried about the health of the fish just as much as I am concerned about what ffs will turn musky fishing into.
Great video Doug. Im glad you had it in you to post something like this, as most people are just simply for or against FFS. Pushing the Muskie community to sure up some threshold limits for targeting fish in deep water is a necessary step to moving forward in a world with FFS. Hopefully others will see this and follow.
This is a really important video Doug. Your heads on right and it raises a lot of questions, and also direction of topics for ethical sportsmanship to a vast amount of variables with these incredible fish. I honestly wish to be optimistic, but I feel social media is a big double edged sword here. On one hand, awareness, education and perspicacity can be brought to the attention of many... Yet on the other hand, there's others that won't care for ethics at the cost of the fish, for the attention of many... There are truly some of the best people to be found in the Muskie industry, and yet at the same time all it takes are some token knuckleheads fighting for their piece of the spotlight, in the name of self centered greed, that it could even get to the point where it seriously harms these fish and the very sport we love. I don't think there will ever be a true solution at this point tbh. But what I, and many, try to do is keep giving strong praise to healthy release practices, just as much as praise for the size of a fish. Cheers from beautiful Georgian Bay bud, Justin 🇨🇦💪
I can agree with everything said. Watching guys pick and choose what they will even cast at has completely taken out the fair chase. I’ve used ffs muskie fishing and walleye fishing. It was great to see how fish reacted especially after getting them boatside was super cool. I think all muskie fishermen would agree that half the fun of catching them is the chase, it’s the grind, the reward of putting a pattern together is unmatched. I compare it to using a drone to pick a deer or elk while hunting. Because you are picking and choosing what you are targeting. Boats work like an aircraft in the sense that you are floating above your target species and your sonar is your camera. I don’t think it’s right I don’t think it’s fair. End of the day all fish are a resource to everyone, we should all do our best to preserve them for future generations to enjoy, because it is a limited resource. It’s a privilege to target any fish or animal and they deserve the utmost respect from all outdoorsman. The more you care and respect the more you’ll understand the issue and you’ll look at it with a different point of view.
I agree with pretty much everything you've covered. I fish a southern reservoir (Kentucky) and one thing you didn't touch on that I think dictates a depth fish will hold at is O2 content. I think it's all relevant. I do not have FFS and will never have it. I don't think our warner water fisheries will do well with the long-term use of the technology.
I respect you having the courage to start this conversation Doug. I know sponsors have a lot of pull in the industry but the fisheries health should take priority. I notice the FFS pressure even more on the small inland lakes that I fish in Ontario, it scares me to look 10 years down the road.
my first musky was right by the boat...it was summer and pretty hot...i quickly dehooked and didnt even take it out of the net...i was shocked that it was already going into shock and swam away but if it had trouble i cant imagine the ones who have a long fight from deep water in summer and the fisherman not ready to dehook and of course just has to have a pic of it,,,musky fisherman are the best and i dont believe most of em use ffs but non musky fisherman are the ones i worry about...musky fishing is the last made in america kinda thing left...u still see handmade in usa baits with that american quality that china and walmart... amazon hasnt ruined...ban ffs imo
Thank you for this video. I too have thought about it a lot. I don’t really agree with those that say FFS ruins the chase. Fishing has never been fair to the fish. That said, I certainly understand people’s trepidation. I caught a musky this week that I wouldn’t have without FFS. It was wise to bring fish handling into this discussion. I think that’s the best thing we can do. We should police ourselves and our friends/family. It won’t solve everything, but I think musky fishing is a small enough sport that if a lot of people are doing it, it will make a difference.
Watching guides sharpshooting fish on Leech this year was absolutely disgusting. Surface temps were 77-79.5° and the fish were suspending 22-30' down. This is just my opinion, but they don't care. A few of them were already saying theyll go to Cass when the Leech bite dies out.
Great video Doug. As someone who doesn't use FFS I thought this was a balanced video for both sides. As someone who fishes open water without FFS I never really thought about the idea of barotrauma as we have always been told these fish are suspended. Regardless, thank you for making a great video about the biggest ethical topic with muskies right now. You are probably one of if not the most influential person in the industry right now and I am glad you got this information out there without targeting anyone which is what we need.
Awesome video Doug! I think MAYBE reaching out to the DNR/a fisheries biologist’s opinion on the pressure of raising them up from the depths could be very beneficial to hear. With your experience of gigging muskies from the very deep and having struggles to release healthy, is a HUGE eye opener. It should be a flag to everybody. You’ve released hundreds of muskies…I know that you know a thing or two and can read that something isn’t “right” here. When they struggle to swim off. Personally I never would have taken in the factor of a Muskies coming from high oxygen levels in the deep would face struggles being brought up to the shallows during the fight. But I’m not a fisheries biologist or frequent Muskie angler so what the heck do I know. Love the video! I think this is a pretty important topic that should not be ignored anglers!
I can only assume most of the premier Mn guides have experienced the same situation with open water fish. It would be refreshing to hear their thoughts as well. The more voices out there confirming these beliefs, the quicker we as a community can make adjustments
So at what depth does Barrel trauma start affecting fish because I always thought it was the 25 to 30 foot range year round that's why don't fish for walleyes in any deeper then 20 foot I'm just trying to be educated and have good practices because I am mainly catch and release fisherman
It all depends on the conditions I think. There is more and more pressure every foot you go down in depth and it builds. There isn’t any kind of depth where it goes from no pressure to pressure that can cause barotrauma. This is where we need more studies and research.
I thought I was overthinking the ffs conundrum. Good to know I'm in great company. I'm bettin you'll sleep well. In my battle against ffs while learning and gaining experience, I kinda slid off toward plan B. It entailed harassment that is completely against my grain as I'm there to fish. Fish however you want, but don't let your lack of ethics and standards, impede my progress. Thanks Doug
Doug I’d love to sit down with u and Forrest at sunset and have a few beers while having this talk. I just got back from there. My dad’s buddy has the cabin right on the same point as the bus stop
A tough topic all round. I have gone circles debating about whether I should add this technology to my boat. I can appreciate the advantage of how FFS can focus effort particularly went fly fishing. Yet the purpose of going musky fishing is only partly on the catching. God knows if catching musky was the principal reward, very few of us would ever do it. I am concerned that FFS will steal some of the intrigue of the Hunt, much like hunting deer over food plots. It all comes down to your definition of what you consider fair chase. One thing is certain, we either agree to regulate ourselves in relation to FFS or the states will do it for us.
An increase in fish handling will increase mortality rates - no matter how ethical or responsible it is performed. For many, the journey across hours, locations, and time on the water is a central part of fishing for this species. For the guides, tournament fisherman, and content creators, this is yet another tool to produce "more". The ability for people in this category to put hours on the water and numbers in the boat makes most other anglers efforts look recreational. And I fear that by the time that public discourse on the ethics and permissible use of underwater optics reaches some sort of conclusion, their effects on the fishery will have long since taken place.
I think if we are going to consider fishing a sport, then there has to be some sort of cap on technology. I don't have a problem with forward facing sonar as long as the image is the same as other sonar. Because it's live, the distance that can be scanned, able to tell species and size of fish is starting to cross a line. I don't know why people have a problem with limit, because we regulate other areas to keep the fish population healthy for everyone to enjoy. That's where I am at anyway, i am okay with mapping and technology to see structure, but scanning specific size and species of fish with live image is probably to far in my opinion. I am with Doug on the positive would be to not target muskies to deep, but in reality it will probably be abused.
This is always going to remain a controversial subject. After a weekend of being in northern MN and using FFS to sharp shoot fish i noticed two things. 1: there are a lot of fish that largely ignore the bait or swim away. Could this be due to the increased pressure of this tactic and they are getting smart to the signal or possibly even to certain baits? 2: there are a lot of people out there doing this who are merely adapting their FFS techniques from walleyes/panfish/bass to muskies. Unfortunatly when ibkondly approach to let them know the dangers of deep fish catches, i usually get a response along the lines of "you're just jealous you dont have it on your own boat, watch your own damn bobber." Its going to be impossible to regulate the sharp shooting technique alone. Either ban it entirely, or embrace it and pump a bunch of money into education for the public about the risks. Make an online ethics course for a free "FFS permit" part of getting a fishing license. I need to get off my soap box and go fish. Im really on the fence much like Doug. Its a great tool. But a great tool can become a very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands. Be smart out there.
Potentially. I think we need more info on the fish and what they can sustain. Like I mentioned as well this could also come into play with water temps and other factors. I think (and I could be wrong) that 20’ is to deep in warm water (60+).
This is currently my first year using it, so far i absolutely love the landscape mode. I part time guide and having landscape mode allows me to see when clients in front of the boat have a fish coming. Often times they are new and don’t see a lot of follows. I haven’t gotten into the sharpshooting but i agree with you that having it and being able to see where the fish are coning from is much more beneficial for the fish. Fisherman just have to have ethics..
Wish they’d just ban it or have never invented it, technology is great and all but it’s going to far, who the hell wants to sit in a boat and stare at a damn screen the whole time? Suppose to be out enjoying the time on The water and getting away from the bullshit, I’d much rather put less fish in the boat and still have the element of suprise when a Muskie strikes, I can’t imagine getting the same adrenaline rush watching it all unfold on a screen, seems like every other boat on vermilion now has FFS
I agree with you but the odds of it getting banned are very very slim. So I’m trying to get a conversation started to raise awareness. This video is to try and educate people on the harm it can do and how to prevent hurting the fish we all love.
Ya it’s good video, definitely needs to be talked about, it’s just my two cents, banning will never happen, the mn and wisco dnr won’t even admit there’s a wolf problem…
Sorry to say but I would ban ffs, if we all went back to the traditional style of muskie fishing, there would not be half the amount of muskies caught today. You refer to being responsible with ffs, 75% of fishermen that use ffs would not go by your mentioned responsibilities to the fish. Ffs is not a tool to be responsible for the most part. If they ban ffs wouldn't have to worry about putting musky fishery in danger.
Up until this point I've been fishing blind both bass and musky on Lake St. Clair with my Crestliner Superhawk, last year I got a 53 1/2" spotted and 47" tiger after upgrading my rods and reels from spinning to heavy duty baitcaster like tackle industry rods and conquest md, after those two catches, I decided to upgrade even more and went with the chaos 20/20 rods with the new pistol grips for ripping rubber much more easily, which will probabliy inreturn increase my chances of catching musky even better. I wasn't blown away by side finding technology and didn't find like I wanted to go out of my way to blow the money on that older technology, but now with mega 360 and livescope are out, I've made the decision they're going on both my boat in a couple weeks with minn kota terrova with spot lock technology pronto because the benefits are incredible. They're not only meant to increase my chances of landing the rare fish of 10,000 casts, but also increase my chances of treasure hunting in finding valued objects at the bottom different lakes with my 3 different underwater drones. I also could see the benefits of using this technology to increase my chances of catching musky on something like topwater with the top raider, which could tripple the fun out on the water with musky fishing. But I totally get why someone would want to make this technology illegal in tournament fishing both bass and musky, so I get that, but I also don't tournament fish. Some food for thought! There's a good percentage of fishermen that have frowned upon the youtube fishing thing for blowing up spots and bringing to much pressure to the sport of musky along with bass, I'm sure you've heard through the grapevine of the anglers that kind of gave Robbie/Lee a hard time on Lake St. Clair when they're waving up their hands around when they landed a few monsters. For some anglers, the youtube fishing thing is just as controversial as FFS, they hate it! Yet, with more supposed men becoming Libertarians, it's kind of ironic that so many are freemarket and freedom preaching men, yet when it comes to bringing popularity to the sport of fishing they're so coveting and act like they own the lakes, waterways, and hot spots, very contradicting, could say the same with along with mega 360 and livescope. Remember no one owns the lake or these spots, remember we live in a free country... Again even YouTubing is just as controversial as the FFS issue, believe me, majority of local musky charters or guides barely do it in Michigan, Jon Bondy just got on RUclips probably since he's starting to these benefits it has for musky company owners, there's only a few others than me that do it in the area. Personally, with new estimates stated 1 in 3 americans will be diabetic by 2050, more men and women being out of shape, teenagers and young men being hooked on video games, I thought getting more youngsters to the sport by youtubing and new technology like livescope/mega 360 isa good thing, since livescope may be a way to get more youngsters involved making musky much more easier to fish and they'll have technology to relate to like the video games, but some obviously don't look at that way, some want the sport of musky all to themselves. Technology is changing everything, not just the sport of fishing, but also the dating game for men, BIG TIME, as more women swipe 4.5% to the right on dating apps, men swipe 61.9% to the right, even more stats showing more women becoming vegan and going to the left in politics, more men going to the right and also carnivore, barely anyone having sex because of different outlook on life, even in France sex is tremendously down because of cell phones yet they're known for sex, as genius Elon Musk stated, population collapse is coming sooner than thought, probably why Politicians aren't telling you the truth about the border issue letting more and more immigrants to keep the eceonomy flowing as the new generation of men just don't want to work either. Point I'm making is, there's going to be a huge percentage of men that are incels, have nothing to do, fishing and hunting will be two sports that will help keep their mind at bay during these tough times and keep them busy. I guess you're starting to see why the Unabomber went ballistic, there's definitely a pro and cons thing going on, as technology has it's good and both negative sides... I've always been more in-tune to technology all my life, have made a lot money selling fishing lures and car parts through my websites, but then ad blindness and as blocker came along destroyed google adsense earnings, then ebay and amazon kept cutting us affiliates commissions. But now to adapt, I personally decided to ditch majority of my websites and jump on the RUclips band wagon and do fishing videos instead of writing fishing articles and selling lures and car parts as an affiliate, I still do a little bit of websites, but mainly the youtube thing... And now we have things like this youtube shelf where we can sell our merch like custom t-shirts, hats, decals, and possibly even 3d printed lures in the future, yes it aint here yet, but it may come soon. Even Randy Blaukat advertises lures from tackle warehouse under his shelf as an affiliate.... Point is there's going to be a lot of money to be made as a RUclipsr! But there's also this thing going on, because those of us that are tech savy and can do the youtube thing really well, there's the haters that aren't tech savy and don't know how to edit videos in premiere, don't know how to work a gopro, or even use adobe illustrator to make logos for tshirts, so they just see from one side and hate on it because they can't do what we do, mark my words this is even coming from some of the Charters and Pro Fishermen because these same anglers aren't tech savy, same could be same about livescope and mega 360... Those that are good with the technology is making them much better fishermen and allowing them to win tournaments, so you're seeing a whole paradigm shift, which a lot of pro anglers aren't happy about... I also heard a lot of pro anglers weren't happy about the Googans getting more sponsorhips than them too, but it is what it is, oh ohhh times are changing - Bob Dylan. With more automation coming and less jobs out there, my opinion, you better learn, take a class at a community college how to do things on computers, because technology is here and it ain't going away even if they ban mega 360 and livescope in tournaments. Many RUclips fishermen will still be using Mega 360 and Livescope despite what they decide in the tournament realm of things. And this is a shoutout to the musky charters locally in Michigan, if you aint doing what Robbie/Lee and Doug are going, you're dinosaurs, similar to the scene in moneyball. It's good to point out the negatives of technology, bringing up awareness, like bringing up fish from the depths and what that does to their health and system. But believe me, it ain't going away and it's here to stay.... Now being a criminal justice major from U of D, a lot of this may be the least of your worries about what I'm going to reference and tell you what Michi Kaku said - "Most dangerous transition is from Type 0 to Type 1. So we're seeing the birth of a type 1 civilization but it's dangerous because we now have hypersonic nuclear weapons, we have the ability to create designer germs, we have the ability to alter the weather with global warming, so it's not clear whether we're going to make the transition from type zero to type onebut this is the greatest transition in human history" Meaning the technology will also be weaponized by various governments, militaries, probably even mercenary sector, if you've seen the recent video on 60 minutes about Havana Syndrome... Also the UFO, I mean UAP is another topic all together, that may transform people's beliefs on religion and how they look at the world, after Tucker Carlson was on Rogan talking about the subject, that's obviously what's happening. USS Nimitz Top Gun Radar Specialist Kevin Day - "I think that technology upgrade that our ship had received. I think it gave us the ability to finally suddenly see these things" aka infrared. We're living in different times now, new enlightenment era! By the way, the new electric muscle car the banshee by dodge is also a big adjustment for mechanics and muscle cars fans who love Hellcats, you can see the similarities to that an livescope/mega 360, but I think once fishermen realize how beneficial lithium batteries are for their trolling motors and fishing, they'll probably stop complaining about the lithium batteries. It's a big adjustment, hopefully we make it 🙏 Kaku - "Most dangerous transition is from Type 0 to Type 1."
This is only the beginning for this technology. Do you have a point where you think the tech will be too much and ruin the tradition and sport? Would you have a problem with state agencies regulating or banning?
At some point yes for sure. I am hopeful that the fish can catch on and learn to avoid it but that will take many years and by then how much damage will be done and can we recover from it is the question.
Technology will always be progressing. The banning of any developments is simply a tribal discussion at his point. As Doug points out, there are no comprehensive studies on the effect to fisheries (or very few) and people are just parroting what they hear online or from tailgate talk with other fisherman. Where would a ban stop? Do we outlaw side imaging, GPS/finders, long rods, super lines, reel technologies? Should we all go back to paper maps, flashers, and 6' rods w/ 35lb dacron line? Social media has made a much greater impact to the musky fishing industry as it has exposed what a joyful and rewarding sport it can be. Musky fishing used to be for purists who subscribed to magazines for articles written by guides, or attended annual shows where only a small percentage of true enthusiasts would venture to hear a few seminars or book their annual trip. Pictures of catches would circulate in the local news or fishing magazines, and everyone knew the fish of 10K casts was a tough endeavor. Now, there are thousands of amazing videos online created to help fellow anglers learn. Conversely, it has invited a massive surge of new fisherman bringing an astounding amount of pressure to fish that never existed before. We should temper discussing limiting progress on any given item, device or development and treat the whole fishery holistically as the growth in numbers of the sport in general has a much greater impact on what we are witnessing today vs. what the fish experienced only a short 15/20 yrs ago. The important message taken out of this video is to just be responsible and be cognizant or your actions when you are on the water. If it does not seem right, it probably isn't. My $.02
Doug, Thanks for having the guts to broach this topic. I agree with many of your points, but you are EXTREMELY naive to think people are going to police themselves, or that people are going to behave correctly. Look at society for instant evidence. ANYONE can do this now, and in a world where “clicks” and “likes” rule (as you surely know), expecting people to do the right thing when posed with temptation is, sadly, a tall ask. You could do more to influence this situation by walking the walk, and removing it from your boat, than just about anything else. You talked about people using it for personal gain. Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing? You don’t need this. Make an example of yourself by ditching it so we all have fish to catch in the not too distant future. So many of us already have seen the decimation this technology is causing for not only muskies, but just about every fish. Again, I praise you for at least be willing to have the discussion.
Y'all are losing the true joy of this...with every cast, your entire desire and experience and animal intellect comes together on eveyr cast, and instead of FFS you use your imagination to put the fish there....That is the intellecual benefit and sporting benefit of this exercise. The fish are there, go fish for them. If you nerd out on this due to the masculine drive to kill/dominate these animals, it is time to grow up. I did, I do not take pics with these grand fish out of the water. For a long time, I went barbless,. and still do. Leave your HS problems behind. Just me.
This topic is becoming a hot one.
I’m not going to ride the fence or pretend that FFS isn’t affecting the fishery. I’ll take the heat of comments.
I started using FFS in 2019 in regards to musky fishing on the SJR and increased my musky catch x 4 times the previous years.
Fish in places I’d never fished before were smashing baits in the 20-35 ft range.
It was an incredible increase in catches and I was sold. I was finding bigger fish, more fish, able to pattern the fish and learned so much about the fish behaviour.
All seemed great right?
Until by 2022, I noticed the fish had adapted to mostly ignoring my presentations, swimming away rather than attacking the baits. They had caught on, catches reduced and the biggest issue was that where I had found numbers of open water fish became vacant of fish for the most part.
Had they moved, was there dead loss due to catching to much fish too often.
A few other anglers started to follow my pattern of fishing and noticed the same results. They’ll deny that it changed the fishery because of self serving needs.
But, I have seen the difference and can’t deny it.
I’ve now changed how I use FFS and use it a bit different now trying to reduce my impact.
A person can’t deny facts and proof in real life to spoil themselves with numbers of fish.
I believe that FFS has the ability to decimate a musky population as they aren’t as resilient enough to survive repeated catches, constant pressure with no place of refuge or out of the anglers reach to recoup.
Wow this is some great feedback thank you.
This is exactly how I feel but for all species of fish. IMO it’s no longer fair chase. I compare it to using a drone while deer or elk hunting to pick and choose
Great job, Doug. Thanks for making this video. Guides and people in the musky fishing business need to be speaking up and sharing their thoughts rather than staying silent. I'm glad to hear that you're on the side of taking care of the fish first and foremost. That should be the position of every fisherman. These are scarce resources we have to manage.
The main problem with FFS, as well as side-imaging, is makes it easier to catch more fish and larger fish. That isn't a problem in an of itself, but it becomes a problem since it incentivizes guides (and content creators) to use it since they make their living putting clients on fish. Whoever can catch the most fish, as well as the largest fish, will make the most money guiding, at least in theory. That monetary incentive is hard to turn down for a lot of guys. They're putting themselves, their spouses, their kids, and whoever else all ahead of the fish and the fishery. They rationalize it.
I do all of my musky fishing in northern Wisconsin. I practice my own self-imposed 80-degrees rule in an attempt to minimize stress on the fish, although as the years have gone by I don't do much musky fishing during the Summer time anymore, so I don't really have to worry about high water temps to begin with. I just hit the age of 40, and I just don't really have a desire to do any Summer fishing anymore. The only exception to that is the annual Summer trip I do with my friend, and all of that fishing is done on remote, carry-in only lakes with a canoe. That can be really exceptional and magical in general. I do most of my musky fishing with the boat from mid-September through early November or until there's ice, etc.
Regarding barotrauma and other things, the bottom line is that we have next to no scientific data about muskies, much less any other fish. Thus, we should play on the safe side and always lean towards the safety and handling of the fish. Regarding suspending muskies, this is something that's been known and written about since at least the 1970s. Tony Rizzo was writing about it from his experience on northern Wisconsin waters going back then. He and others were already guiding clients on suspended fish, at least as early as the 1970s.
I personally will never purchase FFS nor use it. The use of side-imaging is already a bit too much for me. I mainly use SI for identifying structure and cover, not fish. Live/auto charting is also amazing, especially for lakes with no maps. I don't know if this is true, but it seems like I've caught fewer fish since I started using SI. It's almost as if the fish are aware of it and associate it with danger. This is just a theory, but I've heard it from other fisherman and guides who are out there. In addition, another reason I won't use FFS, or perhaps even side-imaging in the future, is that it removes an element of fair chase. Just my two cents.
Respect you for bringing this up. I know on Leech last year one of the guides had quite a few dead fish surfacing around the places that he had guided. He’s Mr. King sharpshooter. I don’t want to get into a pissing match with anybody, but I think we all need to be a little bit more conscientious About fishing deeper than 20 feet. I know this Guide was catching fish out of 40 and 50 feet deep.((((I think by bringing this issue up will make people a little bit more aware of those dangers. I appreciate you bringing awareness to this issue since Muskie fishing is also one of the main things in my life.
That’s to bad to hear. I hope that person can put aside their personal gain or customers gain for the sake of the fish going forward.
@@dougwegnerfishingyes it makes me sad. You know who he is but I just hope without forcing people, which I think is the wrong way to persuade, but rather talking about it they will be more careful. Thanks again Doug. You were a good ambassador for the sport. You obviously care about the fish just like I do.
@@Muskiehunter4841Tanner Talbot?
My first guided trip I have been on was done with FFS. It was fun catching the fish, but I feel as if I didn't learn anything about musky fishing, it just taught me how to use live scope. We were catching fish at the bottom in 40-60 feet of water, and I had no idea the dangers of this. FFS is definitely a dangerous tool, and should only be used as such.
Good stuff Doug. I have also seen a fish come straight off the bottom in 26' while casting a shoreline and take a look at my bait. Someone without a scope can easily catch that fish and never know that it might have been in a dangerous situation. Probably the worst thing that's come from FSS for me personally is that it has taken all the mystery out of musky fishing and therefore taken out the fun. Like you said, in MN they use open water more than anyone really ever knew before. Now you can almost do a population estimate of a fishery in a few days of fishing and know where a large portion of the fish are at any given time. We know too much.
I’m a former FFS owner, and I used it pretty darn effectively for a couple years. The longer I had it, the more I began to hate it, so I sold it. I’ll admit, at first it was fun, and a great learning tool, but eventually catching fish with live sonar just did not sit right with me ethically. It became easy and unrewarding, which is the exact opposite reason I fell in love with musky fishing. It’s frustrating knowing now that anyone that isn’t a complete moron can simply buy this stuff and boat a pile of fish with little to no knowledge or any learned skills around musky fishing. Live sonar is also not in anyway comparable to any other electronics out there. Nothing else allows you to find, follow, dial in presentations, and watch live interaction between fish and your lures in real time. If anyone has used it and says otherwise they are just being ridiculous. There is no more hunt or element of surprise with FFS. I’ve seen what it can do first hand and I just don’t believe it’s good for the health of fisheries or for the sport. There are more fish being caught since FFS than ever before, how long is this sustainable for muskies ? Why do we need the easy way out ? Not many sticks left out there embracing the grind anymore…
Wow good for you man that’s some crazy insight. I would be all for a ban but I don’t think it’s possible so I believe it’s time to educate as much as possible. Everything is at our finger tips now days and we all want things to be easy it’s sad.
I see myself as a multi-species angler, but my passion has always been with musky. I have always been on the side of putting the fish first. I haven't even caught a lot of fish. I typically catch 8-10 a year. I have had fish that I wanted to get a picture with, but observed the fish wasn't doing great so I lowered the net and the fish swam off. No measurement or picture and that's fine. Fish handling is the number one thing to protecting the fishery! I see FFS as a tool, it's a fish finder and it helps the angler find the fish. Yes, it enhances the anglers chances for a catch as it shows the fish reaction to a bait and how it's being worked. However, live sonar has been available in ice fishing applications for decades! I also agree with your take, that musky anglers all need to use and apply good ethics in their approach to angling a specific fish and especially renewed emphasis on proper handling!
Good stuff, Doug. Note that Muskies Inc. now has a position on "sharpshooting." I encourage you to put out an update segment to promote that.
Gord Pyzer has mentioned that released fish that are not strong enough to keep upright may "drown," so a bit of merit to sticking with the fish until it is strong. I would say perhaps not a terrible idea to take a fish shallower as they are likely to recover on the bottom most likely, and especially if exhausted.
It is apparent with big muskies that they exhaust themselves easily and have a longer recovery time that smaller ones - clearly must be related to circulation and not ridding the blood of lactic acid and potassium. Always urgency with these big fish to get them back. Colder the water the greater the O2 concentration and hence better outcomes as far as recovery and resiliency.
Somebody had to step up and ask these questions. Thank you for being the one to step forward and bring to light the tough questions that need to be discussed.
I doubt we’ll see a ban on FFS, but would hope that one day a law would pass that supports proper ethics and care for our fish species.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness, Doug.
I'm really worried for the future our musky fishing sport. Our fisheries were already overpressured and in some cases understocked. This could have a huge impact on quality of fisheries due to the added stress. It could be even worse in lakes/fisheries that rely on natural reproduction.
I'm not interested in the technology myself because I think it crosses the line of fair chase and takes some of the fun and mystery out of fishing. The fact that I have to hope others are as thoughtful as you are in not damaging the fishery by overstressing fish more is not comforting. At a minimum, I think states with stocking programs, like Minnesota, need to proactively ramp up stocking (if possible) and raise revenue (that I'll gladly pay my part on) to do so. But like you said, these trophy fish are 20 years old, and stocking takes a while and is more of a long-term strategy with a delay in when you see results.
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion.
It’s not fair chase deer hunters can’t use spot lights
I agree 100% I wish it would go away but I don’t see that happening.
I appreciate your insight on this topic. Given the knowledge we have about how fragile muskies are and how difficult some of these populations are to maintain especially in Minnesota, I am personally convinced that the MNDNR needs to strongly consider a ban on FFS for Musky. Yes, I know everyone is scared of the word "Ban", but it is no different than thermal scopes being illegal for hunting one species but not another. FFS is not fair chase for musky. Not that it is necessarily fair chase for other species either, but I feel species like walleyes and crappie populations are protected by natural reproduction and stocking rates. Assuming the mortality rate for musky catches is 5-10%; regardless of where the fish is caught, we are losing more fish due to increased catch rates which will further decline the populations.
Part of Muskie fishing has always been time on the water trying to figure these animals out. This technology changes the term “ fishing”. I don’t like it. Especially on small bodies of water. All these years of catch and release to support fisheries may be undone by technology.
Ffs was banned from pmtt and I agree with it. Witnessing people still use it, and seeing anglers fish musky out of season for their next social media pic will kinda make u lose faith in the everyday angler. There’s some prime examples on RUclips Of why it’s not good for musky. An inexperienced musky angler can go sharp shoot a fish not knowing how to even work a lure or handle a fish. And If they can’t do that you can’t expect them to know not to fish them deep. 0.5 fish an average per acre in a populated musky lake makes them too valuable of a resource. Yes ffs won’t make them bite, but if you dangle a bull dawg in front of their face apparently it will still work.
I agree with you 100% but I don’t see it going away :/
Doug, great video. You brought up some great points and honestly it takes a lot of guts to say what you did in the current social climate of musky fishing.
I personally don’t see ffs having a place in musky fishing simply because it is making muskies less cool. A few years ago it would be much more intriguing to hear about someone catching a musky. Nowadays they are getting caught at much higher rates with this technology and often times by more inexperienced people. It’s not very hard to drive around until you see a fish with the cheat box on and throw a pull pause bait at it. It takes away the grind and elusiveness that are trademark of the species. I am worried about the health of the fish just as much as I am concerned about what ffs will turn musky fishing into.
Very well said. I appreciate you being willing to stick your neck out to address this topic.
I am worried about all fish in the long run I believe it will be detrimental to fishing in general
Great video Doug. Im glad you had it in you to post something like this, as most people are just simply for or against FFS. Pushing the Muskie community to sure up some threshold limits for targeting fish in deep water is a necessary step to moving forward in a world with FFS. Hopefully others will see this and follow.
This is a really important video Doug. Your heads on right and it raises a lot of questions, and also direction of topics for ethical sportsmanship to a vast amount of variables with these incredible fish.
I honestly wish to be optimistic, but I feel social media is a big double edged sword here. On one hand, awareness, education and perspicacity can be brought to the attention of many... Yet on the other hand, there's others that won't care for ethics at the cost of the fish, for the attention of many...
There are truly some of the best people to be found in the Muskie industry, and yet at the same time all it takes are some token knuckleheads fighting for their piece of the spotlight, in the name of self centered greed, that it could even get to the point where it seriously harms these fish and the very sport we love.
I don't think there will ever be a true solution at this point tbh. But what I, and many, try to do is keep giving strong praise to healthy release practices, just as much as praise for the size of a fish.
Cheers from beautiful Georgian Bay bud,
Justin 🇨🇦💪
I can agree with everything said. Watching guys pick and choose what they will even cast at has completely taken out the fair chase. I’ve used ffs muskie fishing and walleye fishing. It was great to see how fish reacted especially after getting them boatside was super cool. I think all muskie fishermen would agree that half the fun of catching them is the chase, it’s the grind, the reward of putting a pattern together is unmatched. I compare it to using a drone to pick a deer or elk while hunting. Because you are picking and choosing what you are targeting. Boats work like an aircraft in the sense that you are floating above your target species and your sonar is your camera. I don’t think it’s right I don’t think it’s fair. End of the day all fish are a resource to everyone, we should all do our best to preserve them for future generations to enjoy, because it is a limited resource. It’s a privilege to target any fish or animal and they deserve the utmost respect from all outdoorsman. The more you care and respect the more you’ll understand the issue and you’ll look at it with a different point of view.
I agree with pretty much everything you've covered. I fish a southern reservoir (Kentucky) and one thing you didn't touch on that I think dictates a depth fish will hold at is O2 content. I think it's all relevant. I do not have FFS and will never have it. I don't think our warner water fisheries will do well with the long-term use of the technology.
Thank you for your input I think you have a great point there.
I respect you having the courage to start this conversation Doug. I know sponsors have a lot of pull in the industry but the fisheries health should take priority. I notice the FFS pressure even more on the small inland lakes that I fish in Ontario, it scares me to look 10 years down the road.
my first musky was right by the boat...it was summer and pretty hot...i quickly dehooked and didnt even take it out of the net...i was shocked that it was already going into shock and swam away but if it had trouble i cant imagine the ones who have a long fight from deep water in summer and the fisherman not ready to dehook and of course just has to have a pic of it,,,musky fisherman are the best and i dont believe most of em use ffs but non musky fisherman are the ones i worry about...musky fishing is the last made in america kinda thing left...u still see handmade in usa baits with that american quality that china and walmart... amazon hasnt ruined...ban ffs imo
Thank you for this video. I too have thought about it a lot.
I don’t really agree with those that say FFS ruins the chase. Fishing has never been fair to the fish. That said, I certainly understand people’s trepidation. I caught a musky this week that I wouldn’t have without FFS.
It was wise to bring fish handling into this discussion. I think that’s the best thing we can do. We should police ourselves and our friends/family. It won’t solve everything, but I think musky fishing is a small enough sport that if a lot of people are doing it, it will make a difference.
Watching guides sharpshooting fish on Leech this year was absolutely disgusting. Surface temps were 77-79.5° and the fish were suspending 22-30' down. This is just my opinion, but they don't care. A few of them were already saying theyll go to Cass when the Leech bite dies out.
I agree it's a great idea to get more answers...trouble is we may not like many of them.😮
Great video Doug. As someone who doesn't use FFS I thought this was a balanced video for both sides. As someone who fishes open water without FFS I never really thought about the idea of barotrauma as we have always been told these fish are suspended. Regardless, thank you for making a great video about the biggest ethical topic with muskies right now. You are probably one of if not the most influential person in the industry right now and I am glad you got this information out there without targeting anyone which is what we need.
Awesome video Doug! I think MAYBE reaching out to the DNR/a fisheries biologist’s opinion on the pressure of raising them up from the depths could be very beneficial to hear. With your experience of gigging muskies from the very deep and having struggles to release healthy, is a HUGE eye opener. It should be a flag to everybody. You’ve released hundreds of muskies…I know that you know a thing or two and can read that something isn’t “right” here. When they struggle to swim off.
Personally I never would have taken in the factor of a Muskies coming from high oxygen levels in the deep would face struggles being brought up to the shallows during the fight. But I’m not a fisheries biologist or frequent Muskie angler so what the heck do I know. Love the video! I think this is a pretty important topic that should not be ignored anglers!
Me too. Very enlightening.
I watched a video of you film using FFS with Alex Peric in your boat? Was that just a test?
That was all mega side imaging on a 5’ weed flat
I can only assume most of the premier Mn guides have experienced the same situation with open water fish. It would be refreshing to hear their thoughts as well. The more voices out there confirming these beliefs, the quicker we as a community can make adjustments
Great video, Doug! This is a very important topic that needs to be discussed. Thanks for everything you do!
So at what depth does Barrel trauma start affecting fish because I always thought it was the 25 to 30 foot range year round that's why don't fish for walleyes in any deeper then 20 foot I'm just trying to be educated and have good practices because I am mainly catch and release fisherman
It all depends on the conditions I think. There is more and more pressure every foot you go down in depth and it builds. There isn’t any kind of depth where it goes from no pressure to pressure that can cause barotrauma. This is where we need more studies and research.
I thought I was overthinking the ffs conundrum. Good to know I'm in great company. I'm bettin you'll sleep well. In my battle against ffs while learning and gaining experience, I kinda slid off toward plan B.
It entailed harassment
that is completely against my grain as I'm
there to fish. Fish however you want, but don't let your lack of ethics and standards,
impede my progress.
Thanks Doug
TROLLIN TROLLIN, TROLLIN DOWN THE RIVER BA DUM BE BONG BA DEE BOOM
Doug I’d love to sit down with u and Forrest at sunset and have a few beers while having this talk. I just got back from there. My dad’s buddy has the cabin right on the same point as the bus stop
The Uncut Angling studies are really interesting. Thanks for the lead. He adds to the conversation.
Your best video to date! It’s a conversation to be discussed reviewed studied etc…
Well put for sure! All good points from both sides on a controversial topic. Definitely something on many anglers minds. Thank you Doug for sharing!💪🏻
A tough topic all round. I have gone circles debating about whether I should add this technology to my boat. I can appreciate the advantage of how FFS can focus effort particularly went fly fishing. Yet the purpose of going musky fishing is only partly on the catching. God knows if catching musky was the principal reward, very few of us would ever do it. I am concerned that FFS will steal some of the intrigue of the Hunt, much like hunting deer over food plots. It all comes down to your definition of what you consider fair chase. One thing is certain, we either agree to regulate ourselves in relation to FFS or the states will do it for us.
Its just like hunting. You have to pass on shots. No different. I dont have either and want to just fish, not stare at a screen all day.
An increase in fish handling will increase mortality rates - no matter how ethical or responsible it is performed.
For many, the journey across hours, locations, and time on the water is a central part of fishing for this species. For the guides, tournament fisherman, and content creators, this is yet another tool to produce "more". The ability for people in this category to put hours on the water and numbers in the boat makes most other anglers efforts look recreational. And I fear that by the time that public discourse on the ethics and permissible use of underwater optics reaches some sort of conclusion, their effects on the fishery will have long since taken place.
I think if we are going to consider fishing a sport, then there has to be some sort of cap on technology. I don't have a problem with forward facing sonar as long as the image is the same as other sonar. Because it's live, the distance that can be scanned, able to tell species and size of fish is starting to cross a line. I don't know why people have a problem with limit, because we regulate other areas to keep the fish population healthy for everyone to enjoy. That's where I am at anyway, i am okay with mapping and technology to see structure, but scanning specific size and species of fish with live image is probably to far in my opinion. I am with Doug on the positive would be to not target muskies to deep, but in reality it will probably be abused.
Good conversation starter Doug !!
Self policing never works sorry
I agree but if it’s not going to go away I want to spread the word that this tec can do serious damage.
Thanks for the video and helping us make informed decisions
This is always going to remain a controversial subject. After a weekend of being in northern MN and using FFS to sharp shoot fish i noticed two things.
1: there are a lot of fish that largely ignore the bait or swim away. Could this be due to the increased pressure of this tactic and they are getting smart to the signal or possibly even to certain baits?
2: there are a lot of people out there doing this who are merely adapting their FFS techniques from walleyes/panfish/bass to muskies. Unfortunatly when ibkondly approach to let them know the dangers of deep fish catches, i usually get a response along the lines of "you're just jealous you dont have it on your own boat, watch your own damn bobber."
Its going to be impossible to regulate the sharp shooting technique alone.
Either ban it entirely, or embrace it and pump a bunch of money into education for the public about the risks. Make an online ethics course for a free "FFS permit" part of getting a fishing license.
I need to get off my soap box and go fish. Im really on the fence much like Doug. Its a great tool. But a great tool can become a very dangerous weapon in the wrong hands. Be smart out there.
Sounds like you suggest not fishing in 20 ft or more to protect fish?
Potentially. I think we need more info on the fish and what they can sustain. Like I mentioned as well this could also come into play with water temps and other factors. I think (and I could be wrong) that 20’ is to deep in warm water (60+).
This is currently my first year using it, so far i absolutely love the landscape mode. I part time guide and having landscape mode allows me to see when clients in front of the boat have a fish coming. Often times they are new and don’t see a lot of follows.
I haven’t gotten into the sharpshooting but i agree with you that having it and being able to see where the fish are coning from is much more beneficial for the fish.
Fisherman just have to have ethics..
Great video Doug 👏
Well said. Thanks.
Thank you
Doug did your friend ever get his app done
Great video!
What app do you use for Moonrise moon set
Isolunar
Wish they’d just ban it or have never invented it, technology is great and all but it’s going to far, who the hell wants to sit in a boat and stare at a damn screen the whole time? Suppose to be out enjoying the time on The water and getting away from the bullshit, I’d much rather put less fish in the boat and still have the element of suprise when a Muskie strikes, I can’t imagine getting the same adrenaline rush watching it all unfold on a screen, seems like every other boat on vermilion now has FFS
I agree with you but the odds of it getting banned are very very slim. So I’m trying to get a conversation started to raise awareness. This video is to try and educate people on the harm it can do and how to prevent hurting the fish we all love.
Ya it’s good video, definitely needs to be talked about, it’s just my two cents, banning will never happen, the mn and wisco dnr won’t even admit there’s a wolf problem…
Great video Doug.
Great video, thank you!
Sorry to say but I would ban ffs, if we all went back to the traditional style of muskie fishing, there would not be half the amount of muskies caught today. You refer to being responsible with ffs, 75% of fishermen that use ffs would not go by your mentioned responsibilities to the fish. Ffs is not a tool to be responsible for the most part. If they ban ffs wouldn't have to worry about putting musky fishery in danger.
I Agree with ya Doug good vid ! 👍👍
Ban it
Up until this point I've been fishing blind both bass and musky on Lake St. Clair with my Crestliner Superhawk, last year I got a 53 1/2" spotted and 47" tiger after upgrading my rods and reels from spinning to heavy duty baitcaster like tackle industry rods and conquest md, after those two catches, I decided to upgrade even more and went with the chaos 20/20 rods with the new pistol grips for ripping rubber much more easily, which will probabliy inreturn increase my chances of catching musky even better.
I wasn't blown away by side finding technology and didn't find like I wanted to go out of my way to blow the money on that older technology, but now with mega 360 and livescope are out, I've made the decision they're going on both my boat in a couple weeks with minn kota terrova with spot lock technology pronto because the benefits are incredible. They're not only meant to increase my chances of landing the rare fish of 10,000 casts, but also increase my chances of treasure hunting in finding valued objects at the bottom different lakes with my 3 different underwater drones. I also could see the benefits of using this technology to increase my chances of catching musky on something like topwater with the top raider, which could tripple the fun out on the water with musky fishing. But I totally get why someone would want to make this technology illegal in tournament fishing both bass and musky, so I get that, but I also don't tournament fish.
Some food for thought! There's a good percentage of fishermen that have frowned upon the youtube fishing thing for blowing up spots and bringing to much pressure to the sport of musky along with bass, I'm sure you've heard through the grapevine of the anglers that kind of gave Robbie/Lee a hard time on Lake St. Clair when they're waving up their hands around when they landed a few monsters. For some anglers, the youtube fishing thing is just as controversial as FFS, they hate it! Yet, with more supposed men becoming Libertarians, it's kind of ironic that so many are freemarket and freedom preaching men, yet when it comes to bringing popularity to the sport of fishing they're so coveting and act like they own the lakes, waterways, and hot spots, very contradicting, could say the same with along with mega 360 and livescope. Remember no one owns the lake or these spots, remember we live in a free country...
Again even YouTubing is just as controversial as the FFS issue, believe me, majority of local musky charters or guides barely do it in Michigan, Jon Bondy just got on RUclips probably since he's starting to these benefits it has for musky company owners, there's only a few others than me that do it in the area. Personally, with new estimates stated 1 in 3 americans will be diabetic by 2050, more men and women being out of shape, teenagers and young men being hooked on video games, I thought getting more youngsters to the sport by youtubing and new technology like livescope/mega 360 isa good thing, since livescope may be a way to get more youngsters involved making musky much more easier to fish and they'll have technology to relate to like the video games, but some obviously don't look at that way, some want the sport of musky all to themselves.
Technology is changing everything, not just the sport of fishing, but also the dating game for men, BIG TIME, as more women swipe 4.5% to the right on dating apps, men swipe 61.9% to the right, even more stats showing more women becoming vegan and going to the left in politics, more men going to the right and also carnivore, barely anyone having sex because of different outlook on life, even in France sex is tremendously down because of cell phones yet they're known for sex, as genius Elon Musk stated, population collapse is coming sooner than thought, probably why Politicians aren't telling you the truth about the border issue letting more and more immigrants to keep the eceonomy flowing as the new generation of men just don't want to work either. Point I'm making is, there's going to be a huge percentage of men that are incels, have nothing to do, fishing and hunting will be two sports that will help keep their mind at bay during these tough times and keep them busy. I guess you're starting to see why the Unabomber went ballistic, there's definitely a pro and cons thing going on, as technology has it's good and both negative sides...
I've always been more in-tune to technology all my life, have made a lot money selling fishing lures and car parts through my websites, but then ad blindness and as blocker came along destroyed google adsense earnings, then ebay and amazon kept cutting us affiliates commissions. But now to adapt, I personally decided to ditch majority of my websites and jump on the RUclips band wagon and do fishing videos instead of writing fishing articles and selling lures and car parts as an affiliate, I still do a little bit of websites, but mainly the youtube thing... And now we have things like this youtube shelf where we can sell our merch like custom t-shirts, hats, decals, and possibly even 3d printed lures in the future, yes it aint here yet, but it may come soon. Even Randy Blaukat advertises lures from tackle warehouse under his shelf as an affiliate.... Point is there's going to be a lot of money to be made as a RUclipsr! But there's also this thing going on, because those of us that are tech savy and can do the youtube thing really well, there's the haters that aren't tech savy and don't know how to edit videos in premiere, don't know how to work a gopro, or even use adobe illustrator to make logos for tshirts, so they just see from one side and hate on it because they can't do what we do, mark my words this is even coming from some of the Charters and Pro Fishermen because these same anglers aren't tech savy, same could be same about livescope and mega 360... Those that are good with the technology is making them much better fishermen and allowing them to win tournaments, so you're seeing a whole paradigm shift, which a lot of pro anglers aren't happy about... I also heard a lot of pro anglers weren't happy about the Googans getting more sponsorhips than them too, but it is what it is, oh ohhh times are changing - Bob Dylan. With more automation coming and less jobs out there, my opinion, you better learn, take a class at a community college how to do things on computers, because technology is here and it ain't going away even if they ban mega 360 and livescope in tournaments. Many RUclips fishermen will still be using Mega 360 and Livescope despite what they decide in the tournament realm of things. And this is a shoutout to the musky charters locally in Michigan, if you aint doing what Robbie/Lee and Doug are going, you're dinosaurs, similar to the scene in moneyball. It's good to point out the negatives of technology, bringing up awareness, like bringing up fish from the depths and what that does to their health and system. But believe me, it ain't going away and it's here to stay....
Now being a criminal justice major from U of D, a lot of this may be the least of your worries about what I'm going to reference and tell you what Michi Kaku said - "Most dangerous transition is from Type 0 to Type 1. So we're seeing the birth of a type 1 civilization but it's dangerous because we now have hypersonic nuclear weapons, we have the ability to create designer germs, we have the ability to alter the weather with global warming, so it's not clear whether we're going to make the transition from type zero to type onebut this is the greatest transition in human history"
Meaning the technology will also be weaponized by various governments, militaries, probably even mercenary sector, if you've seen the recent video on 60 minutes about Havana Syndrome...
Also the UFO, I mean UAP is another topic all together, that may transform people's beliefs on religion and how they look at the world, after Tucker Carlson was on Rogan talking about the subject, that's obviously what's happening. USS Nimitz Top Gun Radar Specialist Kevin Day - "I think that technology upgrade that our ship had received. I think it gave us the ability to finally suddenly see these things" aka infrared.
We're living in different times now, new enlightenment era!
By the way, the new electric muscle car the banshee by dodge is also a big adjustment for mechanics and muscle cars fans who love Hellcats, you can see the similarities to that an livescope/mega 360, but I think once fishermen realize how beneficial lithium batteries are for their trolling motors and fishing, they'll probably stop complaining about the lithium batteries.
It's a big adjustment, hopefully we make it 🙏 Kaku - "Most dangerous transition is from Type 0 to Type 1."
This is only the beginning for this technology. Do you have a point where you think the tech will be too much and ruin the tradition and sport? Would you have a problem with state agencies regulating or banning?
At some point yes for sure. I am hopeful that the fish can catch on and learn to avoid it but that will take many years and by then how much damage will be done and can we recover from it is the question.
100% agree, I hope us anglers can prevent it from getting that far...@@dougwegnerfishing
@@dougwegnerfishing i think we shouldnt expect a fish to learn but instead the human needs to
@@t9056 I agree 100%
Technology will always be progressing. The banning of any developments is simply a tribal discussion at his point. As Doug points out, there are no comprehensive studies on the effect to fisheries (or very few) and people are just parroting what they hear online or from tailgate talk with other fisherman. Where would a ban stop? Do we outlaw side imaging, GPS/finders, long rods, super lines, reel technologies? Should we all go back to paper maps, flashers, and 6' rods w/ 35lb dacron line?
Social media has made a much greater impact to the musky fishing industry as it has exposed what a joyful and rewarding sport it can be. Musky fishing used to be for purists who subscribed to magazines for articles written by guides, or attended annual shows where only a small percentage of true enthusiasts would venture to hear a few seminars or book their annual trip. Pictures of catches would circulate in the local news or fishing magazines, and everyone knew the fish of 10K casts was a tough endeavor. Now, there are thousands of amazing videos online created to help fellow anglers learn. Conversely, it has invited a massive surge of new fisherman bringing an astounding amount of pressure to fish that never existed before.
We should temper discussing limiting progress on any given item, device or development and treat the whole fishery holistically as the growth in numbers of the sport in general has a much greater impact on what we are witnessing today vs. what the fish experienced only a short 15/20 yrs ago. The important message taken out of this video is to just be responsible and be cognizant or your actions when you are on the water. If it does not seem right, it probably isn't. My $.02
Doug,
Thanks for having the guts to broach this topic. I agree with many of your points, but you are EXTREMELY naive to think people are going to police themselves, or that people are going to behave correctly. Look at society for instant evidence.
ANYONE can do this now, and in a world where “clicks” and “likes” rule (as you surely know), expecting people to do the right thing when posed with temptation is, sadly, a tall ask.
You could do more to influence this situation by walking the walk, and removing it from your boat, than just about anything else. You talked about people using it for personal gain. Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing? You don’t need this. Make an example of yourself by ditching it so we all have fish to catch in the not too distant future. So many of us already have seen the decimation this technology is causing for not only muskies, but just about every fish.
Again, I praise you for at least be willing to have the discussion.
Would love to see you and Aaron of uncut angling get on the water and do another video about this
Y'all are losing the true joy of this...with every cast, your entire desire and experience and animal intellect comes together on eveyr cast, and instead of FFS you use your imagination to put the fish there....That is the intellecual benefit and sporting benefit of this exercise. The fish are there, go fish for them. If you nerd out on this due to the masculine drive to kill/dominate these animals, it is time to grow up. I did, I do not take pics with these grand fish out of the water. For a long time, I went barbless,. and still do. Leave your HS problems behind. Just me.
Doug did your friend ever get his app done
No it fell threw :/