Re: coded still somehow has the best Air Slide in the series. Instead of that horrible midair stop in BBS and DDD, you maintain your momentum from the Air Slide, which feels very smooth and natural.
4 month old comment, hey why not, have to say I completely agree with that though. I recently played though every game in release order and I was CONSTANTLY annoyed with the midair, dead stop which just makes less than no sense to me. On the ground, you stop moving because the ground is there to stop you, but clearly there isn't anything that should slow you down when you do any of those air slides and it's obnoxious. For a first time play through of BBS and DDD my brain expected going through the air to be faster because well, KH1 had super glide and I was pretty used to seeing the character going those speeds in the air, but I was definitely not prepared for that speed to last half a second and result in zero momentum and a fall straight down.
@@ultimus616 this is specially annoying with terra. He stops going forward, but his dash anomation keeps going, which makes it feel incredibly unnatural
12:55 I think the camera being pulled further back is also a factor. In KH1 you felt a bit cloustraphobic during battles and exploration you don’t feel that in this game
Definitely, I meant to bring that up. I guess it's weird to say that I kind of preferred the claustrophobia, but it did make the game feel more intimate and "grounded," if that makes sense.
@@RegularPat I can see the issue. On one hand I felt all of my deaths in KHII were my fault unlike in the first game but the pulled back camera makes you feel less like the underdog and more of an aggressor.
Yeah, Kingdom Hearts made you feel so small , like you're just a weak kid, and made the world(s) around you feel so big in comparison. I personally liked this feeling
The pulled back camera would have worked wonders if every world of KH2 had been as big as Twilight Town itself was, but unfortunately the majority of worlds just have narrow passageways that make things feel too small, Beast's Castle really had no reason to feel this small
That was great! I learned a whole lot about how to express how I feel about moving in these games and really appreciated listening to how you thoughtfully explained the progression of movement throughout the series
Woaahh!! I saw this video come up on my homepage and I'm like "Hey I made a comment about this!" then I started watching and you mentioned me??? I was so surprised. I was about to go to bed and that just gave me the biggest smile in a while. I watched the whole thing and here I am making a comment, this video made me happy enough to get out of bed and do that so awesome job. Contextualizing the movement from a world design perspective is definitely important in this discussion so I'm super glad you went in depth on that. I really do love the world design in KH3 and how it fits really well with the movement options that are given to the player. When I first experienced the wallrun mechanic, it felt so good. I loved the Prince of Persia games on PS2, and the smoothness in transition of wallrunning / vaulting over obstacles really reminded me of how fun that can be. I like BBS since I think it's a really good blend of the tight, vertical world design seen in KH1 along with varied movement options. BBS is a super stand out game in the series for me on many levels, so I'm glad to see it featured in the video. The feeling with DDD where you can just skip the platforming really put a damper on it for me as well; in games like KH that encourage creative world design, I try to appreciate that design as much as possible since I know how much work it takes both from an artistic and gameplay perspective. So to see half of it skippable by nature of the gameplay mechanics themselves just makes me a little sad. I really do want to enjoy the puzzles... but I can just skip them! It just seemed like a weird disconnect in design paradigms. I'm really interested in where the next entry in the franchise will go with movement. To be honest, I'll most likely be satisfied regardless. I'm not just saying that as a blind fan, but because they seem to have nailed the blend of free movement with world design in KH3, and naturally they would be able (hopefully) to scale that back if they wanted to go for a more KH1 'clunky' feel. In my opinion, I would appreciate smaller, more constrained but focused worlds but with the design improvements and philosophies the team has learned over the past decade. Can you imagine having a seamless world, with focus on small details, puzzles you can't solve yet since you don't have high jump, details you uncover every playthrough, and more? Maybe it's the metroidvania lover in me, but I would love to see that kind of world design in a KH game. Hopefully that made sense. Also, I actually did like the puzzle piece stuff in KH2. For some reason, it really hyped me up when I got the pieces and made the art. Maybe I'm just a dumb child who likes collect-a-thons? I dunno. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I still enjoy when games offer just that little extra to encourage you to go back to places now that you're stronger. Even if the methodology in KH2 wasn't for everyone, I still think the idea is a pretty solid one from a replayability perspective. I really loved this video and how you were able to take my comment and do so much with it! It made me feel super special and I'm really glad I provided some impetus for a video idea. You're really awesome at this kind of thing! I dunno if you'd be into it, but I would love to help out any way I can in the making of a video if possible! Obviously I love talking KH so I'm always down to do some voice overs. Just wanted to throw that out there but it's totally cool if not, your videos are gonna be awesome regardless :D
lmao ayyy it's the man of the hour. The idea was incepted in my mind right from the get-go. Glad you enjoyed, I had a great time thinking about and writing this one. I was especially happy to finally get to talk about BBS and DDD for more than a few seconds. I have been itching to yell about Flowmotion breaking the game for literally 7 years lol. But yeah I'm very optimistic about how the series will continue, and what you're describing is pretty much ideal for me. I thought KH3's more "open world" approach was neat, but there's so many games out there that frankly do it better and commit to it harder, so I don't need KH to be that. I'd always prefer it over KH2 world design, but I won't be upset if worlds next go around are smaller but more focused, as you said. I'd have you along to help out, but you said you like the puzzle pieces, so we're done professionally. Kidding lmao. Honestly they're not bad, just a bit bland for my taste. I feel like I probably talked about it at length in KH1 vs 2 so I'll save all of us my repeated rambling about it lol. But seriously, I'll reach out if I find myself needing an extra opinion, probably when I get back around to a video that's similar to this in subject and structure. I'd love to eventually do something collaborative with a handful of willing and able participants, because I can tell from the comments that people have the mind for it. Thanks as always for stopping by!
@@RegularPat MENTION ME NEXT MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT HOW IN KINGDOM HEARTS MICKEY WEARS AN EMO SUIT AND HE'S REALLY COOL AND EDGY AND THE KING AND THE ULTIMATE LIFE FORM THEN SHOW THIS COMMENT AND CREDIT ME AS THE SOURCE OF THAT IDEA WHAT ARE YOU WAITING GET MAKING I NEED TO BE MENTIONED ASAP THAT MEANS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BUT I SHORTEN IT SO THAT IT DO NOT HAVE TO TYPE AS MUCH THOUGH NOW THAT I HAVE TYPED IT OUT IN FULL ANYWAY THERE WAS NOT MUCH POINT IN IT AND TINCE I NOW ALSO ADDED A LONG EXPLANATION IT WAS ACTUALLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE ALSO NO NEED TO THANK ME FOR GIVING YOU THIS GREAT IDEA AND AN AMAZING COMMENT TO BRIGHTEN UP YOUR OTHERWISE BORING VIDEOS I LOVE TO HELP I AM THE BEST
I’m frequently impressed by your ability to add insightful commentary about game design that I never would have thought of despite having played these for over a decade. You really have a gift my man.
So, here's the thing, Pat - DDD actually DOES have walls you straight up cannot Flowmotion on. They have an entire room made of these walls, in fact, to cement in your mind that this is a surface they are capable of making and throwing at you when they want you to do Real Platforming. It's just that that room is in The World That Never Was and IIRC the only thing you need to platform for in that room is some chests.
Scaling in KH has always been all over the place because I think KH1 had such a great balance! KH3 really impressed me as well and made the worlds feel a lot more packed than the past Osaka entries.
For sure, 1 and 3 are the only ones where I really feel like things aren't just a little bit out of whack. BBS was the closest they came between '02 and '19 of it feeling normal, but it was still a bit off.
in KH3, I like how we can slide in the ice trail left by our magic, or make a high jump in the wind magic... not that necessary, but it's fun would be really cool if they manage to implement more things like that on future games, and maybe incorporate it as ways to acess areas and pass plataforms
@@Mqstodon although grinding both at once for higher tiers is smart, so yet again, give the basic teirs with the forms and the grindyness becomes way more fun than needing to cheese things because I'm not waiting the entire game for basic high jump, and at that point I'm getting all of it at once because I'm already grinding for it.
Synth materials in KH1 made me question my purpose in life and whether or not there was a higher power. Bc at this point I’m sure it’s Mythrils. The higher power is Mythrils
Love you highlighting how bland the KH2 level design is because the drive forms are all optional to use. The only area in all of KH2 that was designed to utilize those movement abilities- the Cavern of Remembrance, as you said, is so much more fun and satisfying to complete than any other area in the game. And I just think about WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN, if they'd bothered to put effort into the platforming/level design ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE GAME. The cavern was so good and you feel PROUD of yourself for finally getting through it. And I love that you can make a little progress as you go through the game, then reach a point you can't go past until you unlock or level up another form, but there's little rewards along the way before those points. If those abilities hadn't been so strictly limited to the drive forms.... man.
Yeah it's a shame to think about what could've been if the Drive Forms just gave you its skill automatically so they could've worked more platforming/interesting design into the world layouts.
@@pingaspearce9403 This is true but that's not what we're saying here. In the video I mention that unlocking the Drive Form itself should give you the base level of the movement ability without having to level them to pave the way for more interesting world design.
Honestly even if they desperately wanted to keep the abilities tied to forms they could still have made some interesting level designs... Sora is still able to jump and grab onto ledges even as a basis so they could have incorporated SOME variation in ground level, and how could you make going out of your way to unlock the better movement rewarding? By incorporating bonuses into the level design!! If they'd made more dynamic level designs they could have found plenty of nooks to hide away treasure chests, and it would have felt so satisfying to see a chest, go "how do I get that??" And then a few hours later unlock a drive form with that movement and go "OH! I GET IT!" and grind out the ability so that you can get the chest. (The grindiness of the forms is still a problem- when people play randomiser the default setting is basically 5x experience for drives and it makes them much more manageable)
It's honestly so weird that in KH2 they didn't build the levels to have treasure chests you could only reach through growth abilities, because like, treasure chests are optional too! You can beat KH1 without ever equipping a shared ability, but they still had content that was locked behind using them. Also I've watched like over a dozen of your videos in the past 3 days and am now a KH1 truther thank you for your service.
@@typeouetco1626 High Jump is the only one you can make an argument for but no, you never have to put it on to beat the game. You don't even have to complete Monstro to beat the game, by the by.
@@typeouetco1626 Hm! That checks out. I amend my comment to "no single shared ability is necessarily required to be equipped in order to finish the game," because the point is that they're all optional
I remember the movement in Days being actually pretty good. Every movement ability has multiple upgrades and you can very easily transition between them without a lot of recovery frames or awkwardness in-between.
Getting some of the super late unlocks is pretty dumb, though. Like "wait, I have to do WHAT to get Superglide or Glide Lv 3 or whatever it is now"? Those bonus missions can suck it.
I actually REALLY love that you can "cheese" platforming challenges in BBS with creative use of hybrid combat/movement abilities. Coming back to an unreachable chest "early" but with the _right build_ and being able to grab a reward with a bit of creativity and lateral thinking is just the best feeling in the world.
Apparantly I am sleep deprived, because 'acrobat-retardant walls' just had me dying of laughter. It's perfect. The best part is that you can sorta use it to describe the phenomenon in other games. BOTW shrines have rock-climber-retartdant walls, for example.
Hi regular pat, video lurker here. I actually really enjoyed the puzzle piece collecting. Specifically, I enjoyed collecting them early with tough exploits of magic and the environment. I also just like finishing puzzles. Hope that was what you were looking for👍
12:58 Do you know why you feel this way? It's because of a few factors. First of all, the camera in KH2 is much more zoomed out. The camera in KH1 was much more zoomed in and grounded, so you felt like every room was much bigger and also you could feel the impact of every jump you made. KH1 experience felt intimate, more personal. KH2 camera is better for mob fights but completely wrecks this sense of immersion because it feels like you're watching Sora do cool shit from afar, you're not there with him, you're just watching. Also KH2 constantly breaks immersion by adding invisible walls everywhere in every fucking room, removing all door opening animations and every interaction with the world. So like you said, in KH2 it feels like every room is artificial, a different skinned hallway or picture. You're not allowed to go anywhere the developers didn't intend you to. You can't interact with anything. Every room is basically the same just with a different skin. In KH1, there were very few invisible walls, i could go everywhere i wanted provided i had the necessary movement option. I could fall down a pit and be punished for it. I could even climb the freaking roofs in Traverse Town, how cool is that? I could interact with a lot of the enviroment and each door has a different opening animation and so each room felt like a believable world, not a game level. Try to imagine the room before Hades Throne without invisible walls, with a more zoomed in camera, and a few secret chests hidden behind some platforming. Suddenly the green fire below the arena is no longer just an aesthetic prop, it's a real hazard that you can fall in and it will KILL you. Suddenly the room feels three time bigger because of the more zoomed in camera, and now there's actually a reason to explore the room. See how that small change already completely changes the room?
Man, I'd be singing a VERY different tune if they designed the game to be more like this overall. Like, give me _some_ chests in the basic game that I need to go out of my way for. Give me something secret and fun! Honestly, it would be better incentive to level up the drive forms too, like "oh wow, look at that chest that's super far away and I only have this dinky glide! Huh, what happens if I level up Final Form to have a stronger glide that can carry me over to that chest without me falling in that lava and dying?" It still bothers me a _lot_. Thank God Cavern of Remembrance gives us something good.
I saw this uploaded two days ago but couldn't get to it until today. I'm glad I finally had the chance to watch another video from someone who is probably one of my favorite kh RUclipsrs
@16:00-.-The air-dash in recoded (and allegedly 358/2 Days, but I never got that far) is the best because it has no end lag, and recoded gives you multiple, so you can use multiple dashes in a row, which is inherently fun. That’s all you’re missing.
Some miscellaneous thoughts, a year late: - This sort of moves out of motion and into combat a bit, but the way the flowmotion attacks work is SO much better in KH3 than DDD. The DDD ones are so floaty and awkward, their strength mainly comes from their relative safety, since you can use them from a position where enemies can't really reach you. They're really effective, at least in the early game but they feel awful to use. KH3 nerfs their damage a lot, but turns them from singular moves into combo starters, letting you cancel out of them with the rest of your toolkit, and it's just so much better. They still maintain a strong presence, but it's mainly because of their utility rather than safety, which makes them feel like a more central part of Sora's kit and more fun to use IMO. - Flowmotion in DDD was a bit awkward for me in movement as well, mainly just in a lot of little things that just sort of add up. You can't act out of a flowmotion state except by a move that you can't cancel, if you don't hit a wall on your dash, the time it takes to peter out is just a bit too long, you always jump just a bit too high and have to wait to land, stuff like that just adds up. - I swear I don't hate DDD (I'm actually kind of an apologist for it compared to some people) but just to bully it's flowmotion a bit more, having it specifically trigger when you dash into walls can end up being problematic mid combat in a lot of ways, and unlike KH3 you can't turn off functions like that. - I don't know why they made aerial dodge like that in KH3. I have yet to find a situation where it's not strictly worse than air slide. - I like how you can cancel out of a lot of animations with Air Step in KH3. It gives it some utility outside of being a gap closer. - I think the reason they made the base KH2 levels so boring is negative reception from the platforming in KH1, although that's mainly just a conspiracy theory by me. - In KH3, unlike the other two main games, you can cancel your attacks with movement abilities. It changes the dynamics of fighting a fair bit when everything is less committal like that. - 358/2 Days and Re:Coded Air Slide is unironically one of the most satisfying movement abilities in the series. In the other games it's a bit floaty and long, but in the DS games, you just get a quick burst of horizontal speed and then you can act out of it almost immediately. It kind of reminds me of a fighting game air dash in it's utility, and it makes getting from point A to point B much more convenient. - BBS is probably my least favorite of the (action RPG, just to exclude Union X) games in terms of gameplay specifically, but, along with KH1, I think it does actually end up striking the best balance between world design and the character's movement abilities. If there's a spectrum between a game like KH2 where the level design is very restrictive and doesn't synergize with your movement at all, and a game like DDD where how free form the movement is pretty much completely trivializes the level design, I'd say BBS and KH1 sit pretty comfortably in the Goldilocks zone of that spectrum. - The "diorama of a room" problem didn't even cross my mind until you brought it up, and now I can't stop thinking about it. - The movement abilities in KH3 aren't contextualized well by the plot, but I think there are cases when they are actually contextualized well by the environment, like how you gain Air Step when you need to move up the pile of debris in Olympus, or how the rocky area in Corona is very restrictive until you fight the horse, after which it opens up. Or how Arendelle, an extremely vertical world, is where you get doubleflight. - I like the KH2 puzzle pieces. They satisfy my "hrgnnnhhhhrrr shiny thing" instincts.
Idk if I agree that DDD’s flowmotion is worse. Most flowmotion in KH3 is pretty useless except for buzzsaw (crowd control) as you are better off just turning the rest of them off because they are so slow and cause you to miss out on enemy openings when trying to air step. Plus with the addition of wall running and air step, there is very little reason to use flowmotion as an actual movement mechanic. I also find KH3’s flowmotion to be very stiff and short compared to DDD. You don’t have nearly as much freedom of movement when doing the jumps or slides and they are way shorter than the DDD ones even when maxed out. The end lag on the wall slide and not being able to slide after a flowmotion jump makes it feel like crap. Like look at 26:46 and how free the movement is. You no longer have a rail grind attack which is a missed opportunity because Blizzard spells now leave trails you can flowmotion ride and the slam attack is now really laggy and underwhelming. The only things I can commend KH3 on how they handled flowmotion is the dodge roll no longer activating it, removing a lot of the motion blur, and that you can’t spam it as much but in pretty much every other way it was downgraded.
I definitely get the perspective, but I don't really think it's about if it's stronger or not, it's about how it feels to play. I straight up disagree with only buzz saw being useful, sonic cleave is admittedly weak, but it gets you to the ground fast and still has the property of being decently safe due to starting so high. Sonic slash has far more utility, being able to knock people in the air is good for setting up dive combos or just stunning an enemy for a big while you stall your mp gauge or just do something else. And while I agree that DDD flowmotion is more free and effective at getting from point A to point B, I don't think that necessarily makes it feel better. While you're restricted to 1 super jump and the superslides only go straight, since you can cancel both states into attacks which can then be cancelled into another wall kick, I never really felt at a loss with KH3's flowmotion. Air step is a bit strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it completely invalidates flowmotion, especially in mob fights, and I don't even get how wall running would invalidate flowmotion. Even if you're not in a fight and just going from point A to point B, they have completely separate purposes, wall running mostly goes up and flowmotion mostly goes sideways.
@@rotatingdisc-479 Wall running means that you don't have to use flowmotion to traverse the world vertically since it's just faster to just run up and air step superior to flow motion travel altogether. Airstep also allows you to go into your flowmotion moves so you pretty much never need to jump off a wall ever. I'm one of those people that loved how free DDD's flowmotion felt and KH3's felt incredibly weak and stiff in comparison. Just look how quickly you could turn in the air and reposition in DDD compared to 3. Now couple that with the scale of KH3 worlds and there is just so much lost potential to me. And yeah you can use sonic cleave but when turning it off nets you punishes easier than when it is on then I don't see much reason to use it. I used it a lot my first playthrough. Then I saw all the people on YT who had it turned off and were always able to get their combos and punishes and I switched it off and have never turned it back on.
The first time I played KH2, I had no idea dodge roll or quick run even existed until The World That Never Was. I leveled up valor a lot, and forgot / didn’t notice I got high jump from it. I also didn’t bother leveling up any of the other forms because they felt useless. Then I was struggling with the Roxas fight and remembered I could level them up. So I started grinding limit form and realized, “oh shoot, I can dodge roll in this form? Why can I only dodge roll in this form?” Then it leveled up, saw I got the ability and I got so mad at myself for not leveling them the whole game
kinda late but I love collecting the puzzle pieces and solving the jigsaw puzzles. plus you get the draw/lucky ring recipe and some other good stuff from those. I think it’s pretty rewarding.
being able to use combat abilities to get chests early was one of the most memorable things i liked about BBS, i love that kind of thing. it made my brain feel big edit: ALSO, i don't know how but... i don't think they intended you to wallkick over and over again in DDD. it always felt really cheesy, but i have no idea how they would have missed it. i can only think that they intentionally left it in but figured most people wouldn't figure it out
Yknow, I never really noticed how “flat” KH2’s worlds were until this video but I always had an underlying feeling that they were less interesting to explore. Before KH3 released I always said that (of the two numbered games) KH2 had better combat while KH1 had the better worlds. I never really thought about how the worlds in KH2 can’t really implement verticality because your movement abilities were based on the optional drive forms but it makes a ton of sense. So I felt they weren’t as interesting but wasn’t able to place my feelings on why I felt that way, so thank you for helping me put that to better words. And I’m glad the team seemingly understood this as well with KH3, where Sora gains movement abilities more naturally or already has some from previous adventures. That and the added size of the worlds as well as the increased FOV really makes the worlds of 3 stand out a ton.
This is the first video I found by you, in fact, I watched like 10 of them by now while writing this comment. I actually found your channel trying to figure out how to get to certain chest in KH1. I just wanted to say thank you for being you haha I grew tired of all the other KH youtubers that I have found before because they seem kind of fake with the way the present themselves, but you just seem to be a very chill guy that's passionate about KH, and I love that. So thank you for the content
Gimme like 3 more months and I'll start making 10 minute videos about the latest KH pin set or coffee mugs that end with begging you to smash that mf subscribe button
@@RegularPat the fact that I wrote this comment before watching this particular video, and listening to you make meta jokes about "usual youtubers" begging for likes and comments has me rolling.
I just started watching your stuff a couple days ago and I find myself entertained by your humor. I also find myself drawn in to your videos until the very end because of how in depth you go with your opinions and different thoughts and reasons that go into those opinions. In my own opinion, i didn't particularly like DDD because of the flow motion stuff. It felt like it trivialized actually playing the game and by the time I got to Tron in that I realized I knew about -2.5% of what was going on in the story or what I was doing, mostly because I spent so much time dashing and spinning around that I felt like I was training to be a rebellious ballerina instead of a keyblade master. All of the other games had their quirks and I liked all of them, but DDD felt to me like I was playing more of a third person Mirrors Edge than a KH game.
Sora the Rebellious Ballerina is a sequence of four words that I am immediately fond of. I totally feel that; flowmotion is a big case of style over substance for me.
@@RegularPat I plan on eventually going back through it to try to get at the story this time. It'll be easier since I've got all the collections except the complete collection. But you've given me inspiration to go through the series (at least as much as possible) at level 1. Here's to hoping they're all comparable to my current level 1 KH1 playthrough!
revisiting this while awaiting bigger videos, and god this aged like fine wine, except the 'hundred subscribers' bit. your comedy never gets old nor will it ever bore me, funny man
It's cool hearing that you just crossed over 100 subs when this was made while making high quality content then becoming one of the most relevant figures in the KH community
Doubt you'll red this 2 years later, but I'm shocked by how overlooked air stepping is! It makes battles feel so much more fast paced, since you can zip between either hoards of Heartless or a boss in a second and lead that into a combo, and makes getting around SO much quicker! It helps give the worlds a more interactive feel too. I love that in the Pirates world you can zip to your ship from anywhere in the town in a seamless manner, and that you can get around quickly in the toy story world, despite its otherwise massive and daunting scale.
A movement cheese you didn't mention from KH3 was how immediately after you get high jump, you don't necessarily need glide. You can just jump high, air slide,,attack, and immediately air slide again for consistent air movement
2:10 (raises hand in shame) I was one of those 2% that, sadly, on their first playthrough of KH1, missed High Jump; you can imagine my surprise and joy in the new found height when I ended up getting it much later on (we're talking after HB at a minimum), maybe even on a repeat playthrough.
When it comes to movement in combat, air stepping is just the best. Doing that in combat with the addition of formchange and Keyblade switching makes combat so god damn fun.
I think one big reason that KH2 worlds feel so small compared to KH1 is that the camera in KH2 is much further away from Sora. Sora is also a lot taller in KH2
Kh 3 is soooo fun to explore. I played it all over again just to hunt the lucky emblems. I never thought about kh2s sort of boring level design until you pointed it out. Though I don’t like the platforming in kh1. Not that it’s bad, I just suck, which is a personal problem I know. 🤷🏼♀️
I think one potential fix for the drive form leveling could even be the power creep of form leveling. The lower levels have decently low requirements for leveling, but possibly the growth abilities could have their weakest form granted to the player at level 2 rather than 3. This doesn't remove the missable problem with Final, but would remove any need for grinding since most players should have their story-granted forms to level 2 by the final world if they consistently use their drive forms. But, if I think back to my experience as a kid, I ended up being discouraged from using drive forms consistently due to the rarity of Drive Recoveries and the punishing mechanic of Anti. The invisible point mechanic for the latter is especially harmful to the player experience of grinding form levels, particularly since most players would avoid grinding or even using Final unless they were made aware of its resetting the point counter. If a player was made aware of their chance of going Anti given some level of form use, this would likely lead to players feeling less unfairly shafted by the mechanic. So it's a mixed bag really.
12:19 I like collecting some of them. Specifically the ones that I can just BARELY grab without having to grind out my drive forms. The ones that are just within my reach, but I usually have to make multiple tries to get. Those ones are genuinely a blast to get.
Thank you for your videos. I'm in a bad state rn , for quite some time, I don't play video games anymore but your videos really rekindled the flame and I'm going to start to play KH3 again very soon 🧡
I remember how I was so confused when I didn’t get glide in KH2 especially since all the Kh games I played that being DDD and Recoded gave you glide near the end
i actually LOVED when you gained abilities from random chests or characters. felt so much more Metroidvania-esque than just everything being after a boss fight/battle
I think 358/2 Days tells a very relevant part of the movement story not mentioned in the video. As you mentioned, KH1 sometimes let you swing your keyblade for just a hair more distance, so you can sequence break some areas meant for high jump. 358 expanded on this by having each keyblade have very distance-focused combos with the combo master ability part of the default set, so you could even get altitude to get chests made for high jump early, which was insanely satisfying. On top of that, it introduced the modern version of air slide, and honestly it was the best version of air slide: multiple air slides and less floaty. I actually used air slide to adjust myself during platforming, unlike BbS, DDD, or KH3, where air slide felt so chaotic and unpredictable. What's more, the sense of scale of 358 was much bigger than any game until KH3, most likely because the environments were designed with 4-player multiplayer (with characters taller than Roxas) in mind, so the progression of these movement abilities felt really satisfying because you could finally access things you could always see but never get à la KH1. The downside is kinda like what you mentioned about flowmotion in DDD. It doesn't feel natural with the universe because you got them as rewards for completing certain relevant missions (glide and glide upgrades came from Neverland missions) or just straight from the moogle shop for a totally reasonable price that requires zero grinding. The organization has all these amazing abilities, but they give them to Roxas whenever they feel like it for some unknown reason.
regarding your last point, i always felt that the arbitrarity of power ups of all kinds was just another way of telling the story: the organization is an oppressive employer that indoctrinates its members and forces them to perform arcane rituals as a part of their basic life, and roxas et. al only get a temporary escape in the form of their tiny rebellions with their daily ice cream hangout
I gotta say that this video is a explanation of why I got in to this series The character growth and the mobility are two things that I adore in any game where I can explore. Is the coolest part for my taste and it always comes with new little options in the previous sections. Not gonna lie that when I first saw this 16 years old kiddo magically launching himself in San Fransokyo I simply exploded of emotion to think how beautiful, simple and clean can be to just to run around the city. Anyway good video I'll leave a like and hope for more good content
Someone else who thinks BbS is underrated! Honestly I wish there were more games in the series that allowed the player to play as all memebers of each trio. The world designs of BbS are also so much more intricate than KH2.
What is that haunted noise at the end!!!!!! I love glitches, it's like a peak at physics breaking but in the world I understand more. Thanks for sharing :)
Just found your channel with this vid and I gotta say, I am very happy to have done so. This is a great, well-thought out video and I can't wait to peruse the rest of your content and see what else you come up with! 🙂
You perfectly explained to me why I always lowkey liked KH1 better than 2. Thanks for doing all the work for me 😝 - Also I just came here from Twitter. Like I said I would!
Imagine if you got limit form first, combining it with the get abilities with its drive form, you get dodge roll right when you’d get it in KH1, and you get to temporarily go back to your KH1 move set (not really but u know what I mean)
I know it's been over a year (and was posted on my birthday, funnily enough), but this is an excellent analysis of Kingdom Hearts! I've honestly fallen in love with your style of analysis and commentary regarding Kingdom Hearts, and am very excited to hear your opinions on the worlds in other KH games in the future! I also think it would be rather interesting to see you tackle a similar topic - but regarding gameplay. It'd honestly be a lot to tackle, but I think an analysis on how the differences between the magic systems and melee combat in KH1 & KH2, (perhaps) the number based card combat of CoM, or even how the use of Command Decks in BBS completely change the way the game is played in comparison to the prior installments - as former "limit" moves are relegated to being equal to spells, and how players are forced to balance the moves they would like to be able to use - would be pretty interesting! That being said, I think it's incredible how you can take a video discussing the changes in movement and motion in the KH series and stretch it out into an informative and very interesting half hour of content. I look forward to catching up on more of your videos, and getting to experience more lists and video essays in the future! Keep up the good work Pat!
Full disclosure, I also prefer KH1 to KH2, primarily for nostalgic reasons and because it's the only one of the two I've played for myself. I understand that KH2 is generally more popular, but despite the odds, I've come across way more people critiquing KH2 and calling it overrated when compared to people who actually prefer KH2. And I'm talking brutal critiques that make KH2 seem almost unsalvageable. I had to stop watching a particular playthrough because the host was so negative that I was worried this game would be absolutely ruined for me before I got the chance to actually play it for myself to form my own opinions. I don't think Regular Pat hates KH2, but I just thought I'd bring it up.
In case someone else hasn't pointed it out by now, although apologies if someone already has; you CAN use both Dodge Roll and Quick Run. The roll is tapping the button while the dash is holding it.
I think what made kh2 not as mind blowing to me as it was for others is that a lot of what people seem to really like isn’t intuitive or explained well. I didn’t know that leveling drive forms could give you movement options and when I first played the game, I didn’t know they could be leveled at all. I never ended up getting anti form because drive forms didn’t really interest me so I didn’t use them enough to be punished let alone rewarded. When I see gameplay footage online, I feel like I’m always seeing new movement options and combat techniques I’ve never even seen before. Plus I’m less interested in combat than I am in exploring and adventuring I guess
I absolutely hated doing the cavern of remembrance. Purely for the same reason that you dislike the drive form progression being responsible for movement. I rarely ever use drive forms, most saving them for when I'm genuinely getting absolutely destroyed since my dumbass entered a world 20 levels underleveled. All of my drive forms except for valor were level 1, because valor was level 2. I had to grind all of my forms up to properly "Traverse" the parkour. Because only AFTER the parkour was feasible, did I ever learn to properly use my abilities to get across it. Edit:14:27
For Terra's High Jump in BBS, I was lucky enough to have to use a walkthrough (because that's just how bad I suck at navigating these games) so I didn't miss the chest as the walkthrough I watched pointed it out very conveniently. I guess the only suggestion I can give is to start sucking at navigation. It worked for me.
21:32 you don't even need to use slide commands to get to that chest early game. the hitbox on one of the bushes near the wall lets you get on the arch with a regular jump, and from there, you can jump + keyblade hit to reach the chest. You're welcome :)
14:19 when I was younger, the area where you use quick run pissed me off. I had no clue what to do and couldn't get the ultima until 2 years later because of the stupid remembrance crystal
On the topic of contextualized movement and abilities i’ve been replaying kingdom hearts 1 lately, and soras gap closer ability sliding dash is eerily similar to the sliding dash the powerwilds have which is around the time you’d learn it. I’m not sure how many attacks learned through level up like this but it’s so cool that even the level up moves have mild amounts of it, like sora is taking notes from previous battles and adapting new moves because of it. I think this might also apply to ars arcanum too because if memory serves me correct you learn it after the hook fight which has hook wildly flailing his sword around so thats another neat thing
God, talking about drive forms in KH2 reminds me of how crazy grindy the game was. Like...forcing you to grind the hardest superboss multiple just to finish the crafting portion of the game is nuts. At least in terms of 100%ing the game
Everything you said about KH2 really resonated with me. I’m still a little lukewarm on it, but the main strength of it really is the combat. Everything else is just sort of... baseline, I guess.
I’m a simple man, give me scan, guard, and a dodge roll, and I’ll be happy in the early game (ESPECIALLY the dodge roll thing, easily my least favorite aspect of kh2 is how long it takes to get quick run, I need a button to spam to make myself think I’m going faster even if I’m not lmao)
Re: coded still somehow has the best Air Slide in the series. Instead of that horrible midair stop in BBS and DDD, you maintain your momentum from the Air Slide, which feels very smooth and natural.
4 month old comment, hey why not, have to say I completely agree with that though. I recently played though every game in release order and I was CONSTANTLY annoyed with the midair, dead stop which just makes less than no sense to me. On the ground, you stop moving because the ground is there to stop you, but clearly there isn't anything that should slow you down when you do any of those air slides and it's obnoxious. For a first time play through of BBS and DDD my brain expected going through the air to be faster because well, KH1 had super glide and I was pretty used to seeing the character going those speeds in the air, but I was definitely not prepared for that speed to last half a second and result in zero momentum and a fall straight down.
@@ultimus616 this is specially annoying with terra. He stops going forward, but his dash anomation keeps going, which makes it feel incredibly unnatural
RECODED MY GOAT
I'm extremely disappointed that 358 didn't have the same air slide like it's the same dev but 358's slide is just so much worse.
And if you air slide into a glide you keep the momentum of the air slide into the glide
12:55 I think the camera being pulled further back is also a factor. In KH1 you felt a bit cloustraphobic during battles and exploration you don’t feel that in this game
Definitely, I meant to bring that up. I guess it's weird to say that I kind of preferred the claustrophobia, but it did make the game feel more intimate and "grounded," if that makes sense.
@@RegularPat I can see the issue. On one hand I felt all of my deaths in KHII were my fault unlike in the first game but the pulled back camera makes you feel less like the underdog and more of an aggressor.
Yeah, Kingdom Hearts made you feel so small , like you're just a weak kid, and made the world(s) around you feel so big in comparison. I personally liked this feeling
@@skibot9974 koooo I’ll ool
The pulled back camera would have worked wonders if every world of KH2 had been as big as Twilight Town itself was, but unfortunately the majority of worlds just have narrow passageways that make things feel too small, Beast's Castle really had no reason to feel this small
That was great! I learned a whole lot about how to express how I feel about moving in these games and really appreciated listening to how you thoughtfully explained the progression of movement throughout the series
Thanks so much!
Hey, it’s the channel that did all those KH remixes, good content.
Woaahh!! I saw this video come up on my homepage and I'm like "Hey I made a comment about this!" then I started watching and you mentioned me??? I was so surprised. I was about to go to bed and that just gave me the biggest smile in a while. I watched the whole thing and here I am making a comment, this video made me happy enough to get out of bed and do that so awesome job.
Contextualizing the movement from a world design perspective is definitely important in this discussion so I'm super glad you went in depth on that. I really do love the world design in KH3 and how it fits really well with the movement options that are given to the player. When I first experienced the wallrun mechanic, it felt so good. I loved the Prince of Persia games on PS2, and the smoothness in transition of wallrunning / vaulting over obstacles really reminded me of how fun that can be.
I like BBS since I think it's a really good blend of the tight, vertical world design seen in KH1 along with varied movement options. BBS is a super stand out game in the series for me on many levels, so I'm glad to see it featured in the video.
The feeling with DDD where you can just skip the platforming really put a damper on it for me as well; in games like KH that encourage creative world design, I try to appreciate that design as much as possible since I know how much work it takes both from an artistic and gameplay perspective. So to see half of it skippable by nature of the gameplay mechanics themselves just makes me a little sad. I really do want to enjoy the puzzles... but I can just skip them! It just seemed like a weird disconnect in design paradigms.
I'm really interested in where the next entry in the franchise will go with movement. To be honest, I'll most likely be satisfied regardless. I'm not just saying that as a blind fan, but because they seem to have nailed the blend of free movement with world design in KH3, and naturally they would be able (hopefully) to scale that back if they wanted to go for a more KH1 'clunky' feel. In my opinion, I would appreciate smaller, more constrained but focused worlds but with the design improvements and philosophies the team has learned over the past decade. Can you imagine having a seamless world, with focus on small details, puzzles you can't solve yet since you don't have high jump, details you uncover every playthrough, and more? Maybe it's the metroidvania lover in me, but I would love to see that kind of world design in a KH game. Hopefully that made sense.
Also, I actually did like the puzzle piece stuff in KH2. For some reason, it really hyped me up when I got the pieces and made the art. Maybe I'm just a dumb child who likes collect-a-thons? I dunno. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I still enjoy when games offer just that little extra to encourage you to go back to places now that you're stronger. Even if the methodology in KH2 wasn't for everyone, I still think the idea is a pretty solid one from a replayability perspective.
I really loved this video and how you were able to take my comment and do so much with it! It made me feel super special and I'm really glad I provided some impetus for a video idea. You're really awesome at this kind of thing!
I dunno if you'd be into it, but I would love to help out any way I can in the making of a video if possible! Obviously I love talking KH so I'm always down to do some voice overs. Just wanted to throw that out there but it's totally cool if not, your videos are gonna be awesome regardless :D
lmao ayyy it's the man of the hour. The idea was incepted in my mind right from the get-go. Glad you enjoyed, I had a great time thinking about and writing this one.
I was especially happy to finally get to talk about BBS and DDD for more than a few seconds. I have been itching to yell about Flowmotion breaking the game for literally 7 years lol. But yeah I'm very optimistic about how the series will continue, and what you're describing is pretty much ideal for me. I thought KH3's more "open world" approach was neat, but there's so many games out there that frankly do it better and commit to it harder, so I don't need KH to be that. I'd always prefer it over KH2 world design, but I won't be upset if worlds next go around are smaller but more focused, as you said.
I'd have you along to help out, but you said you like the puzzle pieces, so we're done professionally. Kidding lmao. Honestly they're not bad, just a bit bland for my taste. I feel like I probably talked about it at length in KH1 vs 2 so I'll save all of us my repeated rambling about it lol. But seriously, I'll reach out if I find myself needing an extra opinion, probably when I get back around to a video that's similar to this in subject and structure. I'd love to eventually do something collaborative with a handful of willing and able participants, because I can tell from the comments that people have the mind for it. Thanks as always for stopping by!
@@RegularPat MENTION ME NEXT
MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT HOW IN KINGDOM HEARTS MICKEY WEARS AN EMO SUIT AND HE'S REALLY COOL AND EDGY AND THE KING AND THE ULTIMATE LIFE FORM
THEN SHOW THIS COMMENT AND CREDIT ME AS THE SOURCE OF THAT IDEA
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING GET MAKING I NEED TO BE MENTIONED ASAP THAT MEANS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BUT I SHORTEN IT SO THAT IT DO NOT HAVE TO TYPE AS MUCH THOUGH NOW THAT I HAVE TYPED IT OUT IN FULL ANYWAY THERE WAS NOT MUCH POINT IN IT AND TINCE I NOW ALSO ADDED A LONG EXPLANATION IT WAS ACTUALLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE
ALSO NO NEED TO THANK ME FOR GIVING YOU THIS GREAT IDEA AND AN AMAZING COMMENT TO BRIGHTEN UP YOUR OTHERWISE BORING VIDEOS I LOVE TO HELP I AM THE BEST
WHATS UP WITH ALL THESE LONG COMMENTS
@@jayantminer I'm sorry
@@Tetramputechture hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha its ok
There are a lot of languages in this world, and this guy chose to speak facts
"Places have walls" I know what I'm getting for my next tattoo.
Next? What’s your previous one?
@@makotoyuki345 “places have floors”
@@makotoyuki345 places have doors
@@tailsmonster12 nice one
@@tailsmonster12 places have ceilings
I’m frequently impressed by your ability to add insightful commentary about game design that I never would have thought of despite having played these for over a decade. You really have a gift my man.
Too kind YV, thanks so much!
Randomly found this channel and I love it. Someone with a soothing voice, a good mic, and just talks about random KH stuff? Instant subscribe
"You beat the devil and suddenly you're an anime jet plane."
me, also a fan of undertale: brb I'mma draw Sora as Tsundreplane
So, here's the thing, Pat - DDD actually DOES have walls you straight up cannot Flowmotion on. They have an entire room made of these walls, in fact, to cement in your mind that this is a surface they are capable of making and throwing at you when they want you to do Real Platforming.
It's just that that room is in The World That Never Was and IIRC the only thing you need to platform for in that room is some chests.
I love just how absurdly *large* some of the levels are with no loading screens.
Scaling in KH has always been all over the place because I think KH1 had such a great balance! KH3 really impressed me as well and made the worlds feel a lot more packed than the past Osaka entries.
For sure, 1 and 3 are the only ones where I really feel like things aren't just a little bit out of whack. BBS was the closest they came between '02 and '19 of it feeling normal, but it was still a bit off.
Simultaneously packed and empty at the same time.
Just like Disney
in KH3, I like how we can slide in the ice trail left by our magic, or make a high jump in the wind magic... not that necessary, but it's fun
would be really cool if they manage to implement more things like that on future games, and maybe incorporate it as ways to acess areas and pass plataforms
Leveling up the forms is kinda “grindy” but I don’t mind since I don’t have to spend 15 hours grinding synth materials like in kh1
But synth materials are completely optional, the forms's abilities are much more important
@@Mqstodon although grinding both at once for higher tiers is smart, so yet again, give the basic teirs with the forms and the grindyness becomes way more fun than needing to cheese things because I'm not waiting the entire game for basic high jump, and at that point I'm getting all of it at once because I'm already grinding for it.
Synth materials in KH1 made me question my purpose in life and whether or not there was a higher power. Bc at this point I’m sure it’s Mythrils. The higher power is Mythrils
@@jnastiness2052 🤣🤣💀
You never had to use synth materials to expand your movement in KH1?
Actually missed high jump on a playthrough and was like "I remember being able to jump higher than this."
Love you highlighting how bland the KH2 level design is because the drive forms are all optional to use. The only area in all of KH2 that was designed to utilize those movement abilities- the Cavern of Remembrance, as you said, is so much more fun and satisfying to complete than any other area in the game. And I just think about WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN, if they'd bothered to put effort into the platforming/level design ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE GAME. The cavern was so good and you feel PROUD of yourself for finally getting through it. And I love that you can make a little progress as you go through the game, then reach a point you can't go past until you unlock or level up another form, but there's little rewards along the way before those points.
If those abilities hadn't been so strictly limited to the drive forms.... man.
Yeah it's a shame to think about what could've been if the Drive Forms just gave you its skill automatically so they could've worked more platforming/interesting design into the world layouts.
Wait what? The skills aren't limited to drive form tho. Once you master them Sora has them normally in his arsenal
@@pingaspearce9403 This is true but that's not what we're saying here. In the video I mention that unlocking the Drive Form itself should give you the base level of the movement ability without having to level them to pave the way for more interesting world design.
Honestly even if they desperately wanted to keep the abilities tied to forms they could still have made some interesting level designs... Sora is still able to jump and grab onto ledges even as a basis so they could have incorporated SOME variation in ground level, and how could you make going out of your way to unlock the better movement rewarding? By incorporating bonuses into the level design!! If they'd made more dynamic level designs they could have found plenty of nooks to hide away treasure chests, and it would have felt so satisfying to see a chest, go "how do I get that??" And then a few hours later unlock a drive form with that movement and go "OH! I GET IT!" and grind out the ability so that you can get the chest. (The grindiness of the forms is still a problem- when people play randomiser the default setting is basically 5x experience for drives and it makes them much more manageable)
This is a big reason why I'm choosing to save CoR after I beat Xemnas and level up all my forms. I feel like it could be worth it a bit
Think my favorite change in KH3 is that Sora can utilize the wisdom shot in certain scenarios, as if he maintained and strengthened the ability
It's honestly so weird that in KH2 they didn't build the levels to have treasure chests you could only reach through growth abilities, because like, treasure chests are optional too! You can beat KH1 without ever equipping a shared ability, but they still had content that was locked behind using them. Also I've watched like over a dozen of your videos in the past 3 days and am now a KH1 truther thank you for your service.
Also you're a million percent right about flowmotion it has infuriated me since I first played the game too
what? no you can't, you absolutely need the shared abilities to clear kingdom hearts 1 (maybe you can cheese it but no way that should count)
@@typeouetco1626 High Jump is the only one you can make an argument for but no, you never have to put it on to beat the game. You don't even have to complete Monstro to beat the game, by the by.
@@BeatButton you either need mermaid kick for atlantica or high jump for monstro.
@@typeouetco1626 Hm! That checks out. I amend my comment to "no single shared ability is necessarily required to be equipped in order to finish the game," because the point is that they're all optional
I remember the movement in Days being actually pretty good. Every movement ability has multiple upgrades and you can very easily transition between them without a lot of recovery frames or awkwardness in-between.
Chaining Air Slide into Glide feels super good :3
Getting some of the super late unlocks is pretty dumb, though. Like "wait, I have to do WHAT to get Superglide or Glide Lv 3 or whatever it is now"?
Those bonus missions can suck it.
I actually REALLY love that you can "cheese" platforming challenges in BBS with creative use of hybrid combat/movement abilities. Coming back to an unreachable chest "early" but with the _right build_ and being able to grab a reward with a bit of creativity and lateral thinking is just the best feeling in the world.
Apparantly I am sleep deprived, because 'acrobat-retardant walls' just had me dying of laughter. It's perfect. The best part is that you can sorta use it to describe the phenomenon in other games. BOTW shrines have rock-climber-retartdant walls, for example.
"This video's sponsored by Moving. Moving is good for you"
Okay you got me I'm subscribing 😂😂😂😂
I really like we've grown with sora and his mobility, it almost feels like a prestige with each game where you restart the levels but more powerful
You are one of the few youtubers I know that improves quality in each of his videos but the first ones are still a blast! Love your stuff!!!
Hi regular pat, video lurker here. I actually really enjoyed the puzzle piece collecting. Specifically, I enjoyed collecting them early with tough exploits of magic and the environment. I also just like finishing puzzles. Hope that was what you were looking for👍
Pat makes the best KH content I’ve ever seen. The videos he makes are so rewatchable and fun
12:58
Do you know why you feel this way?
It's because of a few factors.
First of all, the camera in KH2 is much more zoomed out. The camera in KH1 was much more zoomed in and grounded, so you felt like every room was much bigger and also you could feel the impact of every jump you made. KH1 experience felt intimate, more personal.
KH2 camera is better for mob fights but completely wrecks this sense of immersion because it feels like you're watching Sora do cool shit from afar, you're not there with him, you're just watching.
Also KH2 constantly breaks immersion by adding invisible walls everywhere in every fucking room, removing all door opening animations and every interaction with the world. So like you said, in KH2 it feels like every room is artificial, a different skinned hallway or picture. You're not allowed to go anywhere the developers didn't intend you to. You can't interact with anything. Every room is basically the same just with a different skin.
In KH1, there were very few invisible walls, i could go everywhere i wanted provided i had the necessary movement option. I could fall down a pit and be punished for it. I could even climb the freaking roofs in Traverse Town, how cool is that?
I could interact with a lot of the enviroment and each door has a different opening animation and so each room felt like a believable world, not a game level.
Try to imagine the room before Hades Throne without invisible walls, with a more zoomed in camera, and a few secret chests hidden behind some platforming. Suddenly the green fire below the arena is no longer just an aesthetic prop, it's a real hazard that you can fall in and it will KILL you.
Suddenly the room feels three time bigger because of the more zoomed in camera, and now there's actually a reason to explore the room.
See how that small change already completely changes the room?
Man, I'd be singing a VERY different tune if they designed the game to be more like this overall.
Like, give me _some_ chests in the basic game that I need to go out of my way for. Give me something secret and fun!
Honestly, it would be better incentive to level up the drive forms too, like "oh wow, look at that chest that's super far away and I only have this dinky glide! Huh, what happens if I level up Final Form to have a stronger glide that can carry me over to that chest without me falling in that lava and dying?"
It still bothers me a _lot_. Thank God Cavern of Remembrance gives us something good.
Oh yeah, another regular pat video, its like a second christmas
I am the proverbial coal in the Internet's stocking.
I saw this uploaded two days ago but couldn't get to it until today. I'm glad I finally had the chance to watch another video from someone who is probably one of my favorite kh RUclipsrs
That's an honor, thank you!
@16:00-.-The air-dash in recoded (and allegedly 358/2 Days, but I never got that far) is the best because it has no end lag, and recoded gives you multiple, so you can use multiple dashes in a row, which is inherently fun. That’s all you’re missing.
This channel is going to blow up within the year relative to now 100k easy
That would be neat
Your humour is great. Thanks for all the content Pat
Some miscellaneous thoughts, a year late:
- This sort of moves out of motion and into combat a bit, but the way the flowmotion attacks work is SO much better in KH3 than DDD. The DDD ones are so floaty and awkward, their strength mainly comes from their relative safety, since you can use them from a position where enemies can't really reach you. They're really effective, at least in the early game but they feel awful to use. KH3 nerfs their damage a lot, but turns them from singular moves into combo starters, letting you cancel out of them with the rest of your toolkit, and it's just so much better. They still maintain a strong presence, but it's mainly because of their utility rather than safety, which makes them feel like a more central part of Sora's kit and more fun to use IMO.
- Flowmotion in DDD was a bit awkward for me in movement as well, mainly just in a lot of little things that just sort of add up. You can't act out of a flowmotion state except by a move that you can't cancel, if you don't hit a wall on your dash, the time it takes to peter out is just a bit too long, you always jump just a bit too high and have to wait to land, stuff like that just adds up.
- I swear I don't hate DDD (I'm actually kind of an apologist for it compared to some people) but just to bully it's flowmotion a bit more, having it specifically trigger when you dash into walls can end up being problematic mid combat in a lot of ways, and unlike KH3 you can't turn off functions like that.
- I don't know why they made aerial dodge like that in KH3. I have yet to find a situation where it's not strictly worse than air slide.
- I like how you can cancel out of a lot of animations with Air Step in KH3. It gives it some utility outside of being a gap closer.
- I think the reason they made the base KH2 levels so boring is negative reception from the platforming in KH1, although that's mainly just a conspiracy theory by me.
- In KH3, unlike the other two main games, you can cancel your attacks with movement abilities. It changes the dynamics of fighting a fair bit when everything is less committal like that.
- 358/2 Days and Re:Coded Air Slide is unironically one of the most satisfying movement abilities in the series. In the other games it's a bit floaty and long, but in the DS games, you just get a quick burst of horizontal speed and then you can act out of it almost immediately. It kind of reminds me of a fighting game air dash in it's utility, and it makes getting from point A to point B much more convenient.
- BBS is probably my least favorite of the (action RPG, just to exclude Union X) games in terms of gameplay specifically, but, along with KH1, I think it does actually end up striking the best balance between world design and the character's movement abilities. If there's a spectrum between a game like KH2 where the level design is very restrictive and doesn't synergize with your movement at all, and a game like DDD where how free form the movement is pretty much completely trivializes the level design, I'd say BBS and KH1 sit pretty comfortably in the Goldilocks zone of that spectrum.
- The "diorama of a room" problem didn't even cross my mind until you brought it up, and now I can't stop thinking about it.
- The movement abilities in KH3 aren't contextualized well by the plot, but I think there are cases when they are actually contextualized well by the environment, like how you gain Air Step when you need to move up the pile of debris in Olympus, or how the rocky area in Corona is very restrictive until you fight the horse, after which it opens up. Or how Arendelle, an extremely vertical world, is where you get doubleflight.
- I like the KH2 puzzle pieces. They satisfy my "hrgnnnhhhhrrr shiny thing" instincts.
Idk if I agree that DDD’s flowmotion is worse. Most flowmotion in KH3 is pretty useless except for buzzsaw (crowd control) as you are better off just turning the rest of them off because they are so slow and cause you to miss out on enemy openings when trying to air step. Plus with the addition of wall running and air step, there is very little reason to use flowmotion as an actual movement mechanic. I also find KH3’s flowmotion to be very stiff and short compared to DDD. You don’t have nearly as much freedom of movement when doing the jumps or slides and they are way shorter than the DDD ones even when maxed out. The end lag on the wall slide and not being able to slide after a flowmotion jump makes it feel like crap. Like look at 26:46 and how free the movement is. You no longer have a rail grind attack which is a missed opportunity because Blizzard spells now leave trails you can flowmotion ride and the slam attack is now really laggy and underwhelming. The only things I can commend KH3 on how they handled flowmotion is the dodge roll no longer activating it, removing a lot of the motion blur, and that you can’t spam it as much but in pretty much every other way it was downgraded.
I definitely get the perspective, but I don't really think it's about if it's stronger or not, it's about how it feels to play. I straight up disagree with only buzz saw being useful, sonic cleave is admittedly weak, but it gets you to the ground fast and still has the property of being decently safe due to starting so high. Sonic slash has far more utility, being able to knock people in the air is good for setting up dive combos or just stunning an enemy for a big while you stall your mp gauge or just do something else. And while I agree that DDD flowmotion is more free and effective at getting from point A to point B, I don't think that necessarily makes it feel better. While you're restricted to 1 super jump and the superslides only go straight, since you can cancel both states into attacks which can then be cancelled into another wall kick, I never really felt at a loss with KH3's flowmotion.
Air step is a bit strong, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it completely invalidates flowmotion, especially in mob fights, and I don't even get how wall running would invalidate flowmotion. Even if you're not in a fight and just going from point A to point B, they have completely separate purposes, wall running mostly goes up and flowmotion mostly goes sideways.
@@rotatingdisc-479 Wall running means that you don't have to use flowmotion to traverse the world vertically since it's just faster to just run up and air step superior to flow motion travel altogether. Airstep also allows you to go into your flowmotion moves so you pretty much never need to jump off a wall ever. I'm one of those people that loved how free DDD's flowmotion felt and KH3's felt incredibly weak and stiff in comparison. Just look how quickly you could turn in the air and reposition in DDD compared to 3. Now couple that with the scale of KH3 worlds and there is just so much lost potential to me. And yeah you can use sonic cleave but when turning it off nets you punishes easier than when it is on then I don't see much reason to use it. I used it a lot my first playthrough. Then I saw all the people on YT who had it turned off and were always able to get their combos and punishes and I switched it off and have never turned it back on.
The first time I played KH2, I had no idea dodge roll or quick run even existed until The World That Never Was. I leveled up valor a lot, and forgot / didn’t notice I got high jump from it. I also didn’t bother leveling up any of the other forms because they felt useless. Then I was struggling with the Roxas fight and remembered I could level them up. So I started grinding limit form and realized, “oh shoot, I can dodge roll in this form? Why can I only dodge roll in this form?” Then it leveled up, saw I got the ability and I got so mad at myself for not leveling them the whole game
kinda late but I love collecting the puzzle pieces and solving the jigsaw puzzles. plus you get the draw/lucky ring recipe and some other good stuff from those. I think it’s pretty rewarding.
You make a lot of good points, and I’m glad I found your channel. I can’t wait to see what you do next!
being able to use combat abilities to get chests early was one of the most memorable things i liked about BBS, i love that kind of thing. it made my brain feel big
edit: ALSO, i don't know how but... i don't think they intended you to wallkick over and over again in DDD. it always felt really cheesy, but i have no idea how they would have missed it. i can only think that they intentionally left it in but figured most people wouldn't figure it out
I'm thinking it was intended
I enjoy most of your work but this video in particular just slaps. Just goes so hard. Just tickles the fancy. I keep coming back to it. Simply divine!
This channel is so perfect for me you have earned a loyal subscriber good sir
I'm here bingeing again in 2023 on the back of the essential pat playlist! Thanks Pat!
thank you for revisiting the vids!!
Yknow, I never really noticed how “flat” KH2’s worlds were until this video but I always had an underlying feeling that they were less interesting to explore. Before KH3 released I always said that (of the two numbered games) KH2 had better combat while KH1 had the better worlds. I never really thought about how the worlds in KH2 can’t really implement verticality because your movement abilities were based on the optional drive forms but it makes a ton of sense. So I felt they weren’t as interesting but wasn’t able to place my feelings on why I felt that way, so thank you for helping me put that to better words.
And I’m glad the team seemingly understood this as well with KH3, where Sora gains movement abilities more naturally or already has some from previous adventures. That and the added size of the worlds as well as the increased FOV really makes the worlds of 3 stand out a ton.
This is the first video I found by you, in fact, I watched like 10 of them by now while writing this comment. I actually found your channel trying to figure out how to get to certain chest in KH1. I just wanted to say thank you for being you haha I grew tired of all the other KH youtubers that I have found before because they seem kind of fake with the way the present themselves, but you just seem to be a very chill guy that's passionate about KH, and I love that. So thank you for the content
Gimme like 3 more months and I'll start making 10 minute videos about the latest KH pin set or coffee mugs that end with begging you to smash that mf subscribe button
@@RegularPat the fact that I wrote this comment before watching this particular video, and listening to you make meta jokes about "usual youtubers" begging for likes and comments has me rolling.
I just started watching your stuff a couple days ago and I find myself entertained by your humor. I also find myself drawn in to your videos until the very end because of how in depth you go with your opinions and different thoughts and reasons that go into those opinions. In my own opinion, i didn't particularly like DDD because of the flow motion stuff. It felt like it trivialized actually playing the game and by the time I got to Tron in that I realized I knew about -2.5% of what was going on in the story or what I was doing, mostly because I spent so much time dashing and spinning around that I felt like I was training to be a rebellious ballerina instead of a keyblade master. All of the other games had their quirks and I liked all of them, but DDD felt to me like I was playing more of a third person Mirrors Edge than a KH game.
Sora the Rebellious Ballerina is a sequence of four words that I am immediately fond of. I totally feel that; flowmotion is a big case of style over substance for me.
@@RegularPat I plan on eventually going back through it to try to get at the story this time. It'll be easier since I've got all the collections except the complete collection. But you've given me inspiration to go through the series (at least as much as possible) at level 1. Here's to hoping they're all comparable to my current level 1 KH1 playthrough!
@@kevinhart3084 I love level 1 KH so much. Godspeed, sir.
Your videos really do invite a lot of conversation to the table. Very well laid out!
It IS so satisfying to come back to a world with a new movement skill that lets you reach an old chest.
And then it’s ANOTHER gummi block…
revisiting this while awaiting bigger videos, and god this aged like fine wine, except the 'hundred subscribers' bit. your comedy never gets old nor will it ever bore me, funny man
This is the video that introduced me to your channels. Love your stuff. Keep up the good work.
Ok I must say, since I last checked in your videos, jokes and quality have greatly improved, congrats! I actually love this video
Let's not forget that you can also grind on the trial of ice in KH3.
It's cool hearing that you just crossed over 100 subs when this was made while making high quality content then becoming one of the most relevant figures in the KH community
I would argue Sora's shoes look more like yellow squash than bananas
Doubt you'll red this 2 years later, but I'm shocked by how overlooked air stepping is! It makes battles feel so much more fast paced, since you can zip between either hoards of Heartless or a boss in a second and lead that into a combo, and makes getting around SO much quicker! It helps give the worlds a more interactive feel too. I love that in the Pirates world you can zip to your ship from anywhere in the town in a seamless manner, and that you can get around quickly in the toy story world, despite its otherwise massive and daunting scale.
A movement cheese you didn't mention from KH3 was how immediately after you get high jump, you don't necessarily need glide. You can just jump high, air slide,,attack, and immediately air slide again for consistent air movement
2:10 (raises hand in shame) I was one of those 2% that, sadly, on their first playthrough of KH1, missed High Jump; you can imagine my surprise and joy in the new found height when I ended up getting it much later on (we're talking after HB at a minimum), maybe even on a repeat playthrough.
"[Birth by Sleep] is underrated."
Thank you someone for recognizing and addressing this problem in the fandom. Plz do more BBS stuff
I don't know if it was your best video so far but it was really cool and funny
When it comes to movement in combat, air stepping is just the best. Doing that in combat with the addition of formchange and Keyblade switching makes combat so god damn fun.
I think one big reason that KH2 worlds feel so small compared to KH1 is that the camera in KH2 is much further away from Sora. Sora is also a lot taller in KH2
Kh 3 is soooo fun to explore. I played it all over again just to hunt the lucky emblems. I never thought about kh2s sort of boring level design until you pointed it out. Though I don’t like the platforming in kh1. Not that it’s bad, I just suck, which is a personal problem I know. 🤷🏼♀️
I think one potential fix for the drive form leveling could even be the power creep of form leveling. The lower levels have decently low requirements for leveling, but possibly the growth abilities could have their weakest form granted to the player at level 2 rather than 3. This doesn't remove the missable problem with Final, but would remove any need for grinding since most players should have their story-granted forms to level 2 by the final world if they consistently use their drive forms.
But, if I think back to my experience as a kid, I ended up being discouraged from using drive forms consistently due to the rarity of Drive Recoveries and the punishing mechanic of Anti. The invisible point mechanic for the latter is especially harmful to the player experience of grinding form levels, particularly since most players would avoid grinding or even using Final unless they were made aware of its resetting the point counter. If a player was made aware of their chance of going Anti given some level of form use, this would likely lead to players feeling less unfairly shafted by the mechanic. So it's a mixed bag really.
12:19
I like collecting some of them. Specifically the ones that I can just BARELY grab without having to grind out my drive forms. The ones that are just within my reach, but I usually have to make multiple tries to get. Those ones are genuinely a blast to get.
Thank you for your videos.
I'm in a bad state rn , for quite some time, I don't play video games anymore but your videos really rekindled the flame and I'm going to start to play KH3 again very soon 🧡
I remember how I was so confused when I didn’t get glide in KH2 especially since all the Kh games I played that being DDD and Recoded gave you glide near the end
I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze. I've never heard that but I love it! And the video was great too. :)
i actually LOVED when you gained abilities from random chests or characters. felt so much more Metroidvania-esque than just everything being after a boss fight/battle
I think in BBS if the developers were aware of this and did not fix it, they just left it in so the game rewards you for creative ability usage.
I think 358/2 Days tells a very relevant part of the movement story not mentioned in the video.
As you mentioned, KH1 sometimes let you swing your keyblade for just a hair more distance, so you can sequence break some areas meant for high jump. 358 expanded on this by having each keyblade have very distance-focused combos with the combo master ability part of the default set, so you could even get altitude to get chests made for high jump early, which was insanely satisfying.
On top of that, it introduced the modern version of air slide, and honestly it was the best version of air slide: multiple air slides and less floaty. I actually used air slide to adjust myself during platforming, unlike BbS, DDD, or KH3, where air slide felt so chaotic and unpredictable.
What's more, the sense of scale of 358 was much bigger than any game until KH3, most likely because the environments were designed with 4-player multiplayer (with characters taller than Roxas) in mind, so the progression of these movement abilities felt really satisfying because you could finally access things you could always see but never get à la KH1.
The downside is kinda like what you mentioned about flowmotion in DDD. It doesn't feel natural with the universe because you got them as rewards for completing certain relevant missions (glide and glide upgrades came from Neverland missions) or just straight from the moogle shop for a totally reasonable price that requires zero grinding. The organization has all these amazing abilities, but they give them to Roxas whenever they feel like it for some unknown reason.
regarding your last point, i always felt that the arbitrarity of power ups of all kinds was just another way of telling the story: the organization is an oppressive employer that indoctrinates its members and forces them to perform arcane rituals as a part of their basic life, and roxas et. al only get a temporary escape in the form of their tiny rebellions with their daily ice cream hangout
I gotta say that this video is a explanation of why I got in to this series
The character growth and the mobility are two things that I adore in any game where I can explore. Is the coolest part for my taste and it always comes with new little options in the previous sections.
Not gonna lie that when I first saw this 16 years old kiddo magically launching himself in San Fransokyo I simply exploded of emotion to think how beautiful, simple and clean can be to just to run around the city.
Anyway good video I'll leave a like and hope for more good content
Someone else who thinks BbS is underrated! Honestly I wish there were more games in the series that allowed the player to play as all memebers of each trio. The world designs of BbS are also so much more intricate than KH2.
Surprised you don't have more subscribers at the moment-this was enjoyable to watch and you have a great way of talking through your thoughts.
1:09 survivor reference
and from one of the worst seasons too
Been watching your videos lately and it’s so refreshing to hear someone who views the series similarly to me.
What is that haunted noise at the end!!!!!! I love glitches, it's like a peak at physics breaking but in the world I understand more. Thanks for sharing :)
I had to pause the video when you called Ventus Sora's intestinal squatter. Just amazing
Just found your channel with this vid and I gotta say, I am very happy to have done so. This is a great, well-thought out video and I can't wait to peruse the rest of your content and see what else you come up with! 🙂
Thank you for existing!
You perfectly explained to me why I always lowkey liked KH1 better than 2. Thanks for doing all the work for me 😝
- Also I just came here from Twitter. Like I said I would!
Imagine if you got limit form first, combining it with the get abilities with its drive form, you get dodge roll right when you’d get it in KH1, and you get to temporarily go back to your KH1 move set (not really but u know what I mean)
Instead of a random chest in Monstero, Tigger should have taught you high jump
I know it's been over a year (and was posted on my birthday, funnily enough), but this is an excellent analysis of Kingdom Hearts! I've honestly fallen in love with your style of analysis and commentary regarding Kingdom Hearts, and am very excited to hear your opinions on the worlds in other KH games in the future! I also think it would be rather interesting to see you tackle a similar topic - but regarding gameplay. It'd honestly be a lot to tackle, but I think an analysis on how the differences between the magic systems and melee combat in KH1 & KH2, (perhaps) the number based card combat of CoM, or even how the use of Command Decks in BBS completely change the way the game is played in comparison to the prior installments - as former "limit" moves are relegated to being equal to spells, and how players are forced to balance the moves they would like to be able to use - would be pretty interesting!
That being said, I think it's incredible how you can take a video discussing the changes in movement and motion in the KH series and stretch it out into an informative and very interesting half hour of content. I look forward to catching up on more of your videos, and getting to experience more lists and video essays in the future! Keep up the good work Pat!
Full disclosure, I also prefer KH1 to KH2, primarily for nostalgic reasons and because it's the only one of the two I've played for myself. I understand that KH2 is generally more popular, but despite the odds, I've come across way more people critiquing KH2 and calling it overrated when compared to people who actually prefer KH2. And I'm talking brutal critiques that make KH2 seem almost unsalvageable. I had to stop watching a particular playthrough because the host was so negative that I was worried this game would be absolutely ruined for me before I got the chance to actually play it for myself to form my own opinions. I don't think Regular Pat hates KH2, but I just thought I'd bring it up.
In case someone else hasn't pointed it out by now, although apologies if someone already has; you CAN use both Dodge Roll and Quick Run. The roll is tapping the button while the dash is holding it.
You remind me so much of Cybershell it's insane, and damn do I love it when it's KH instead of Sonic being discussed
Old video, I know... But you definitely deserve more subs, mate.
Really great video!!
10:41 THAT CHEER CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD AND I JUMPED WHEN I HEARD IT
I think what made kh2 not as mind blowing to me as it was for others is that a lot of what people seem to really like isn’t intuitive or explained well. I didn’t know that leveling drive forms could give you movement options and when I first played the game, I didn’t know they could be leveled at all. I never ended up getting anti form because drive forms didn’t really interest me so I didn’t use them enough to be punished let alone rewarded. When I see gameplay footage online, I feel like I’m always seeing new movement options and combat techniques I’ve never even seen before. Plus I’m less interested in combat than I am in exploring and adventuring I guess
I absolutely hated doing the cavern of remembrance. Purely for the same reason that you dislike the drive form progression being responsible for movement. I rarely ever use drive forms, most saving them for when I'm genuinely getting absolutely destroyed since my dumbass entered a world 20 levels underleveled. All of my drive forms except for valor were level 1, because valor was level 2. I had to grind all of my forms up to properly "Traverse" the parkour. Because only AFTER the parkour was feasible, did I ever learn to properly use my abilities to get across it.
Edit:14:27
For Terra's High Jump in BBS, I was lucky enough to have to use a walkthrough (because that's just how bad I suck at navigating these games) so I didn't miss the chest as the walkthrough I watched pointed it out very conveniently. I guess the only suggestion I can give is to start sucking at navigation. It worked for me.
21:32 you don't even need to use slide commands to get to that chest early game. the hitbox on one of the bushes near the wall lets you get on the arch with a regular jump, and from there, you can jump + keyblade hit to reach the chest. You're welcome :)
Great analysis!
Awesome video!
14:19 when I was younger, the area where you use quick run pissed me off. I had no clue what to do and couldn't get the ultima until 2 years later because of the stupid remembrance crystal
On the topic of contextualized movement and abilities i’ve been replaying kingdom hearts 1 lately, and soras gap closer ability sliding dash is eerily similar to the sliding dash the powerwilds have which is around the time you’d learn it.
I’m not sure how many attacks learned through level up like this but it’s so cool that even the level up moves have mild amounts of it, like sora is taking notes from previous battles and adapting new moves because of it.
I think this might also apply to ars arcanum too because if memory serves me correct you learn it after the hook fight which has hook wildly flailing his sword around so thats another neat thing
I definitely never learned how to glide in KH2. Realised how to do it postgame through a guide but at that point I was just ready to move onto BBS
God, talking about drive forms in KH2 reminds me of how crazy grindy the game was. Like...forcing you to grind the hardest superboss multiple just to finish the crafting portion of the game is nuts. At least in terms of 100%ing the game
Everything you said about KH2 really resonated with me. I’m still a little lukewarm on it, but the main strength of it really is the combat. Everything else is just sort of... baseline, I guess.
Instant like and subscribe for mentioning Treasure Planet should be in KH!
I’m a simple man, give me scan, guard, and a dodge roll, and I’ll be happy in the early game (ESPECIALLY the dodge roll thing, easily my least favorite aspect of kh2 is how long it takes to get quick run, I need a button to spam to make myself think I’m going faster even if I’m not lmao)
This is a great video whole heartedly agree with all points made