UPDATE : Idroprep now has a 58.4mm option available on their website. We have ordered one and plan to make a follow up video as soon as we can. We'll be taking all of your feedback and suggestions to this update video, so let us know what you want to see!
please when video on the new 58.4mm, i just ordered 2 myself, Also I would like to see some results with a single basket and more side by side shots of the espresso flowing from the group head using normal tamp vs. the idroprep. i think you will see a huge difference in consistency using a single basket with normal tamp vs idroprep due to the shape of the single basket. and like some others said here do a taste comparison as well.
Thank you for not simply promoting idroprep as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Like you, I think the concept is ingenious, has promise, and in theory is a step in the right direction, however... as you pointed out at 23:56 the actual tamping process fails to extend to the outside edge, i.e., full diameter of the portafilter leaving the edges of the puck untouched. It's evident that the metal shell that surrounds the gel pad is there more for the protection of the gel since it is subject to damage from both hot water and/or being punctured. Unfortunately the metal shell also impedes any possibility of a tamp reaching the edges of the coffee puck. My thought: If the gel pad is so delicate that it touching the edge of a hot portafilter during the tamp will damage it etc... they need to experiment with different gel products until they find one that is heat resistant and more puncture proof, and will also allow them to shorten the height of the protective metal shell which will allow the gel material to "squish out" so it can reach and touch the outside edges of the portafiler and allow for a more complete tamp.
Thank you for exploring this topic. It seems as though there is a quest for the improved extraction of coffee, raising the quantity of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). It is my assumption that what a coffee drinker ultimately wishes to have, aside from having a higher caffein-bearing drinkable solution, is improved soluble coffee taste and aroma. Our hypothetical question is, therefore: Does increased coffee TDS yield “better” coffee taste and smell? Using the Scientific Method, the null hypothesis argues that “no”, it does not. We, then, attempt to disprove (reject) the null hypothesis, adopting the alternative hypothesis that “yes” it does. Below are some of the questions that we might ask in order to determine whether to reject, or to accept the null hypothesis: 1. What are the components of our “taste”, i.e.: What do we like about what we like? 2. Are the compounds associated with “taste” water-soluble? 3. Are the compounds associated with “taste” carried by compounds which are water soluble? 4. Are volatile compounds important to “taste”, if so, to what degree? If we accept the alternative hypothesis, we might wish to pursue questions about TDS: 1. What is the quantity of dissolvable solids available in the coffee used, of which Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) is part? 2. Does the particle size of the ground coffee correlate with TDS extracted? 3. Does the water flow-rate correlate with TDS extracted? 4. Does water pressure correlate with TDS extracted? 5. Is maximal coffee TDS extraction desirable? You might want to explore some of these questions here: perfectdailygrind.com/2017/11/coffee-science-breaking-down-where-flavor-comes-from/#:~:text=Non%2Dvolatile%20compounds%20include%20alkaloids,It's%20soluble%20in%20water.
this is only the 2nd video of yours I’ve seen...I suspect I am probably echoing most of the commenters here, but: for the amount of thought, diligence, and meticulousness you brought to your experimentation-it’s saying quite a bit that the thing I was most impressed with was your (as far as I could tell) authentically humble presentation of the info-from the up-front disclaimers to the zero-pressure invitation to take/leave or even skip all that scrupulously gathered info. Bravo on both counts ;) 👌🏽
Saw an article about this tamper and this video was only one to pop up. Great explanation and testing. Wonderful way to be introduced to a new channel. Subscribing and look forward to watching more. I am shocked at the price of this, $56 is not bad considering some tampers are 3 times that with no technology added.
Appreciate the kind words, and glad you found the channel! I was also surprised with how cheap it was. I think especially if they're able to get the couple things fixed I mention in the video, it can be worth a good amount more.
Wow! First time I’ve come across your channel and, after I’d heard your explanation of the methodology I thought to myself - ‘no wonder he stopped at just 40 samples’ for your comparison! Holy Sh@t - that was a LOT of work. Huge respect for doing this, and as a guy who did a chemistry degree at University I can speak from experience at the tedium of doing long, methodical, repeated steps in an experiment. Great job. As for any analysis of the scientific rigour of your approach - frankly who cares man, I think you already did way more than was required for the nature of the subject matter being tested. Interesting findings. For most of us, after a period of tinkering, all we really want is consistency, consistency and more consistency. If this helps you achieve that then it’s work a look (depending on price 😉)
Appreciate all the kind words! Consistency is definitely one of, if not the most, important aspects of brewing coffee. So there's huge potential for a product like this! Thanks again for watching.
I love my current puck prep though. RDT beans, grind into grinds catcher, dose into portafilter, wdt, use puck distributor, tamp evenly, puck screen. I find the process to be very meditative and something I would miss with the idroprep.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee Have you tried using a wdt to de-clump, then Idroprep to even the density, then a distributor to then even the surface and spread the top layer evenly? I think that way you may be able to get totally even density and surface. If you wanted to go way over the top follow that with a puqpress to evenly compress.
I’m starting out in home espresso and have come to a similar puck prep (other than dosing straight into the portafilter). It is an enjoyable experience and very connective with all that lead up to the moment with the beans. Thanks for verbalizing this…there is something about just the enjoyable connection with the process that also has a place in the journey of figuring out the “best” puck prep…heart and science.
Don't discount your findings, this is excellent work (you sound like you have an engineering background)! Wow cool stuff, and you have enough trials for SD/SE, and have probable causes for the deviation. Can't really ask for more. On why TDS and EY increase with less distribution, maybe even extraction higher extraction. Unless you have bulk channeling where the center of the channel doesn't extract, small channels are local areas of higher flow and would extract more, balanced against high density areas that extract less. Outside of composition analysis (like spectrography - difficult and expensive) or taste (hard to quantify), the best you can do easily is look at the variation, which you did. But generally I'd expect the hydro shots to be more balanced and less bitter. Keep it up!
Also, one hypothesis of why the EY went up when «straight tamping» (14:19) vs other distribution methods is that it may helped with radial extraction uniformity. The grinder you used in the experiment creates a center mound. Typical espresso baskets nowadays favor flow towards the center and the periphery of the puck is less extracted due to the basket's hole pattern. Straight tamping the mound of grounds creates a lesser density in the periphery and compensates for the slightly uneven flow of modern espresso baskets. In the end, the periphery is more extracted and the EY is higher with this technique. Some people use the WDT and the ICT: inward comb technique (they purposefully create a center mound with a WDT tool) to help with radial uniformity and get higher EY.
Thank you for the great video! I too was one of the first people to purchase this tamper. He arrived in March and I currently no longer use him. In any case, it is true that the consistency is already quite good, for example, if you do not spread the coffee grounds but tamp directly. The coffee was already quite reasonably extracted from the machine in the double and single basket. What I do not like, however, is the handling. I have an unpleasant feeling when tamping, because the tamper is wobbly due to the gel pad and that creates a strange feeling when tamping. Combined with the quirky design and since the metal base is very high, it feels kind of weird. It also looks strange visually and during tamping due to the height of the metal base. The biggest drawback, however, is actually the behavior you mentioned, that the coffee grounds do not come up to the edges. I had taken this tamper, because I also assumed that the gel pad presses the coffee grounds to the outside. So I should save myself a 58.4 or 58.5 mm tamper. Instead, however, the metal edges press in the coffee grounds. This always looks very unsightly. I do not know how it is now, but in March there was only the 58 mm version, as this was to be tested in the first test phase. Possibly the gel pad still needs to be revised so that the edges are also neatly covered. Otherwise, I'm curious how it goes with the revision of the tamper. For me, this tamper with its own design is currently not finished and the price seems too high for me. I must note, however, that I had paid only about 28 euros through an initial discount. For this I was happy to test it and certainly this tamper has great potential. But I currently prefer to stay with a classic tamper, which gives me a better feel. And with 58.5 mm I also hit the edge as far as possible. Best regards and thanks for your great work!
Thanks for your insight! Sounds like we had very similar first impressions. I forgot to mention the feeling when tamping. It is quite wobbly, and definitely throws you off a little bit. I do think if they're able to fix the gel pad reaching to the edges, this could be a real game changing product!
10:00 sounds like you were actually pretty scientific with your testing methodology. I think the problem with channeling and TDS meters is that it doesn't really tell you if it's a good shot or not, with channeling you can probably over-extract a part of the coffee and get a higher TDS still. Also with a dark roast you might not want a 25% extraction :D More extraction doesn't necessarily mean better tasting.
Thank you for a great video! I absolutely love these kinds of scientific videos, and 40 shots is already a pretty good set for an indipendent RUclipsr! I'm sure this video will be very useful for anybody who is deciding what kind of a tamper to go for. I guess the next questions would be about taste (which is difficult to do scientifically of course, but a bit of subjective feeling is always interesting anyway). Did you notice a difference in the taste or texture of this tamper vs a traditional tamper? (And sorry if this was somewhere and I missed it!) Or maybe if you end up still using this for a while, you could report back if you notice something in that department...?
Taste would definitely be important! I didn't mention much in the video, as I'm still experimenting with the Idroprep. It'll definitely take some time, as I'd like to play around with different pressures, but hopefully I'll be able to report back with some insights. Thanks for watching!
Great work. Very informative. Im curious on following in case youre looking for an idea for next video ( looking forward tothe taste video) 1. What puck will look when apply it with glass basket? 2. What’s the tds& taste result comparing with spring tamper 3. Add one more scenario for using wdt 4. How to clean and any residual at the gel pad when tamping?
Steven, what an educational and thorough video :)!!! What I like about Sprometheus is that he does basic level science experiments. It's fun and appeals to the science nerd in me :)!!! What you did here is exactly what I am looking for in a RUclips review. Deep dive when necessary. Definitely was necessary in this video! Certainly sufficient! You are awesome! I'll look at your other videos with Home grounds:). I'm just said sad I have a Breville Barista Express. Would love to try such an awesome tamper!
The gel pad looks like it's recessed inside of yours, but the website shows it sticking out a couple of millimetes, they also have a stand that goes with it. I wonder if this is an updated design?
Great video. You really doled down everything, the experimentation was very thorough. Two things I wish you added: 1. I want to see a full puck prep (including WDT) vs just hand tapping on the side with the new tamper. 2. Which kinda relates to the first. I think you missed the goal or this tamper which is making the prep take much less time at a really small quality cost. My question for this would be if in your opinion you think it’s worth it?
I agree with most you said! Great job! Only i dont necesseraly agree with claims of idropprep, if you use very good distribution and use hydrotamp you can get both very even surface and even density. I believe that uneven surface can affect flow, that not only density of a puck affects chenneling, but uneveness of surface as well. Anyway, i would like if we could see using needles distribution, as it breaks all the clumps and distribute coffee most evenly. But i know that it would take a lot of time.
I must admit that I am currently completely indifferent to tampers, because I currently do not own an espresso machine. Nevertheless, I have seen the entire video with great interest. It was just really great made and you have put more effort in there than I expected. Thank you very much.
Really great video, I appreciate all the hard work. It's possible that the non-distributed shots has higher extraction because of channeling. The channels could have been well over extracted, leading to overall higher extraction but less even extraction.
Great test! I was excited about this at first but visiting the website and watching your video (which confirmed most of my suspicions like the outer metal ring being a problem) won't let me get it anytime soon I think. Also this isn't 58,5 mm right? The edges of the puck look really messy.
I came across this video without searching for idroprep and ended up watching till the end. 😆Appreciate this great work here. I was thinking about getting one until you mentioned that it doesn’t cover the edge of the basket. Anyway, I personally use palm tapping with wdt and tamper that sits on the edge of the basket and push the middle part down so that it levels the puck. Got fair results so far 😄 For the part towards the end of the video when you mentioned that idroprep has more straight flow or it converge to one faster. Could it be because as from the experiment, the idroprep get less extraction time which means higher flow rate and that leads the fluid to combine into 1 flow faster? But I guess channelling is playing bigger role anyway. 😆
You need to taste the shots - no good just quoting EY figures. They're all very similar. Also, it seems like the data indicates EY increases for both tampers with no distribution involved. Spinning distribution tools have all be shown to decrease EY in tests. What matters if it the shots tasts better and more consistent shot to shot.
I think there’re misconceptions in many places not only here in this video; The hypothesis of ‘theoretically even puck density = better espresso’ is still a myth and not concluded. The hypothesis of ‘better puck prep = no channeling’ is also not very conclusive, because channeling is not only about the puck itself. The sub-topic with another misconception being: Splattering at bottom of basket = Channeling. But this Channeling has something to do with coffee granule’s sitting on and around each and every pores at the bottom of basket. There’s already research papers showing that regardless of how puck is prep’ed, there’s last-mile-effect at bottom of basket, where introducing micro-channels opens up the pores and makes splattering (many youtubers call it channeling) completely gone, and this is done by inserting a layer of filter paper.
In several videos shared by idroprep, a single shot basket is always used, to exaggerate and to convince us the laypersons, visually, that there’s higher chances that density is highly uneven when a normal tamper is used. But don’t we already knew most of us are using double-shot basket? In addition, how will idroprep convince barista not to spin the tamper after tamping? (Imagine that the spinning is going to introduce abrasions on the rubber membrane and shorten its life)
Very true. My assumption would be that they use the single baskets to really drive home the point of the Idroprep. As for spinning the tamper, baristas should know by now not to do that with any tamper. Not sure of what affects it would have on the Idroprep.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee Spinning: I personally spin to remove ground coffee that still stuck to the side wall of tamper before removing the tamper. Not sure about Baristas and others? It’s ok for hard tamper. But it might not be recommended for idroprep, as the rubber surface might have high frictional coefficient with ground coffee, and might not be good for the rubber membrane for it being abrasive?
Yea spinning is usually not recommended, at least in cafe settings, as you're more likely to apply pressure while doing so and ruin the flat tamp. There's zero benefit in doing it anyways, so I never do it.
I think that if you don’t use a distribution tool you have a better extraction because the distribution tool lets the smaller particles settle to the bottom creating a denser bottom layer preventing more TDS. But I’m no scientist.
Question: In combining the standard deviations of 1 and 2, did you just add the values? It kind of looks like it, because if you compare it to 3 and 4 the 1/2 standard deviation looks a lot higher to what it should be. And to combine those, dividing by 2 would probably be more informative.
The combined standard deviations are taken from all of the numbers within the two sets. So since the average numbers in each set were so different from one another, the overall standard deviation shot up. Good question though!
Oh interesting! It’s been a few years since I took statistics, so you very well may be correct. Let me know if you find anything, would love to add a correction!
Unfortunately, I have lost those notes, maybe i will find something online. However, as the Standard deviations of sets 1 and 2 were quite different, the combination of both would probably not work, as it would suggest that those two sets of data aare to different.
I'm an analytical chemist and using the through water that is the same water through the machine that would be making the espresso is the proper way to zero out your refractometer since it is the solvent in the extraction
Looks like a massively half finished design with the ridges left and all that floating coffee will get washed into the puck under pressure, kind of missing the point of consistent density no? It also looks fiddly and delicate plus hard to clean. My guess is that the gel thing would suffer a catastrophic incident within a week. Not tempted in the slightest to buy one.
Great work, have subbed as a result. I was wondering if you'd played with a blind shaker for distribution? For some reason WDT is a disaster in my climate, the shaker plus a happy tamper is where I'm at, but this hydroforming development is interesting, I'll certainly keep my eye on it.
Thanks for the kind words! I don't currently own a blind shaker, but definitely an interesting one to try out. Plenty of people have been suggesting other things to test out, so I may just have to make a follow-up video.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee I managed to pick one up for $30CAD on Amazon, it's exactly the same design as the Weber but way way cheaper. Looking forward to more of your videos in the future.
Hi! Thank you! Really interesting!!! I would love to see the results using this tamper with the single espresso basket. Being pressure the main advantage, maybe it’s a good tool to prep singles!!! Standard tampers really do not perform great in that task I think. Well, thank you anyway!!!!
The higher (average extraction yields ) of non distributed shots, imho would be that there are VERY high extractions in the channels and less dense areas. Lending the numbers to be skew a bit higher than it “seems like it should be”
I tkink with less distribution you will have more mocca-like emulsion-effect Like in a Nespress-capsule. The more homogenouse the Flow thru the Coffee-Puck the finer you can grind or lower the pressure as more homogenouse the Flow is the faster the Extraction is. I think with hydro-tec Tamper you have less Problems with unforgiving beans/roasts.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee By the way, Independent from your RUclips-video Here I did some Experiments with Senseo-Pads in a Senseo Select (the one with still Just 5 Spray shower head instead of 40 smaller Sprays additional to the Basic 5 wider ones. Senseo Original and Senseo Quadrante have the 45 Spray shower head). E.g. at Senseo-Pads from dutch Brand Favor a Hydro-Forming-effect is Most evident. If you First do a Short Flush and then Stop the brewing, Open the brew-head and than try to Push Out the Air (pre-flush Blooming effect) Out of the Pad with the bottom of a teaspoon you experience the Resistance of the Filtermaterial of the coffee-pad. It does Not really let the liquid Out as you May expect. So reversing that effect. The hot water coming from the Brew head/shower head pushed down the Filtermaterial of the Pads, does somekind of homogenouse tampering or hydro-Forming. I do Not say that Senseo makes the best Coffee but Senseo-Pads with Robusta in it Delivery Coffee with a clear chocolate taste as you would expect If a Coffee/coffee-bean/roast is Marketed with Aromas incl. Chocolate. I'm talking Not about real chocolate as ingredient Here. I mean chocolate as an aroma from the roasted coffee-bean Like Herbs or fruits at Arabica. Back tomthe Trick with the teaspoon at any Senseo. As Senseo-pad offers somekind of hydro-Forming you neither do the Trick with pre-flush and the teaspoon nor do tampering before brewing Just Take Care that the Coffee is distributed in the Pad. Means you should Not hold IT on one Side/Edge and Shake all the coffee to one Side. No distribution with your Fingers. The coffee should should lay evenly distributed in the Pad. Hydro-Forming is a good and reasonable Approach at portafilters Machines.
I do not use the Idroprep currently. Unless they come out with one with the pad extending to the edges of the basket, I don't believe they are beneficial.
Yea I purchased the 58.4 and it didn't fix anything. The issue is that the gel pad itself doesn't extend all the way to the edges, so the metal enclosure is tamping the coffee on the edge.
For the love of God do not throw up on the screen please that'd be really gross. 😂 Thank you for your hard work on this one appreciate it very much have a wonderful day
If you can't taste the difference, you're just getting lost in the weeds. Although the Japanese Tea Ceremony is a beautiful thing, I just want my cuppa tea, now. Same with Espresso. It's just coffee. You can get hung up on minuscule details that don't matter by amount of extra effort.
For artisan cafes, best shot is important. For busy artisan cafes, consistently pulling best shot quickly is important. Question: does the gel pad add another problem for Barista? Maintenance? Hygiene? Longevity?
Great points! The gel pad does add a new layer of "potential" problems, although I don't think it is that bad. If it breaks, yea you're unfortunately out of a tamper until you can get a replacement. Hygiene is the only other one I can see problems for, as they don't recommend washing it with super hot water.
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UPDATE : Idroprep now has a 58.4mm option available on their website. We have ordered one and plan to make a follow up video as soon as we can. We'll be taking all of your feedback and suggestions to this update video, so let us know what you want to see!
please when video on the new 58.4mm, i just ordered 2 myself, Also I would like to see some results with a single basket and more side by side shots of the espresso flowing from the group head using normal tamp vs. the idroprep. i think you will see a huge difference in consistency using a single basket with normal tamp vs idroprep due to the shape of the single basket. and like some others said here do a taste comparison as well.
Thank you for not simply promoting idroprep as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Like you, I think the concept is ingenious, has promise, and in theory is a step in the right direction, however... as you pointed out at 23:56 the actual tamping process fails to extend to the outside edge, i.e., full diameter of the portafilter leaving the edges of the puck untouched. It's evident that the metal shell that surrounds the gel pad is there more for the protection of the gel since it is subject to damage from both hot water and/or being punctured. Unfortunately the metal shell also impedes any possibility of a tamp reaching the edges of the coffee puck. My thought: If the gel pad is so delicate that it touching the edge of a hot portafilter during the tamp will damage it etc... they need to experiment with different gel products until they find one that is heat resistant and more puncture proof, and will also allow them to shorten the height of the protective metal shell which will allow the gel material to "squish out" so it can reach and touch the outside edges of the portafiler and allow for a more complete tamp.
Thank you for exploring this topic.
It seems as though there is a quest for the improved extraction of coffee, raising the quantity of Total Dissolved Solids (TDS).
It is my assumption that what a coffee drinker ultimately wishes to have, aside from having a higher caffein-bearing drinkable solution, is improved soluble coffee taste and aroma.
Our hypothetical question is, therefore: Does increased coffee TDS yield “better” coffee taste and smell? Using the Scientific Method, the null hypothesis argues that “no”, it does not. We, then, attempt to disprove (reject) the null hypothesis, adopting the alternative hypothesis that “yes” it does.
Below are some of the questions that we might ask in order to determine whether to reject, or to accept the null hypothesis:
1. What are the components of our “taste”, i.e.: What do we like about what we like?
2. Are the compounds associated with “taste” water-soluble?
3. Are the compounds associated with “taste” carried by compounds which are water soluble?
4. Are volatile compounds important to “taste”, if so, to what degree?
If we accept the alternative hypothesis, we might wish to pursue questions about TDS:
1. What is the quantity of dissolvable solids available in the coffee used, of which Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) is part?
2. Does the particle size of the ground coffee correlate with TDS extracted?
3. Does the water flow-rate correlate with TDS extracted?
4. Does water pressure correlate with TDS extracted?
5. Is maximal coffee TDS extraction desirable?
You might want to explore some of these questions here: perfectdailygrind.com/2017/11/coffee-science-breaking-down-where-flavor-comes-from/#:~:text=Non%2Dvolatile%20compounds%20include%20alkaloids,It's%20soluble%20in%20water.
this is only the 2nd video of yours I’ve seen...I suspect I am probably echoing most of the commenters here, but: for the amount of thought, diligence, and meticulousness you brought to your experimentation-it’s saying quite a bit that the thing I was most impressed with was your (as far as I could tell) authentically humble presentation of the info-from the up-front disclaimers to the zero-pressure invitation to take/leave or even skip all that scrupulously gathered info. Bravo on both counts ;) 👌🏽
Saw an article about this tamper and this video was only one to pop up. Great explanation and testing. Wonderful way to be introduced to a new channel. Subscribing and look forward to watching more.
I am shocked at the price of this, $56 is not bad considering some tampers are 3 times that with no technology added.
Appreciate the kind words, and glad you found the channel! I was also surprised with how cheap it was. I think especially if they're able to get the couple things fixed I mention in the video, it can be worth a good amount more.
Wow! First time I’ve come across your channel and, after I’d heard your explanation of the methodology I thought to myself - ‘no wonder he stopped at just 40 samples’ for your comparison! Holy Sh@t - that was a LOT of work. Huge respect for doing this, and as a guy who did a chemistry degree at University I can speak from experience at the tedium of doing long, methodical, repeated steps in an experiment. Great job. As for any analysis of the scientific rigour of your approach - frankly who cares man, I think you already did way more than was required for the nature of the subject matter being tested. Interesting findings. For most of us, after a period of tinkering, all we really want is consistency, consistency and more consistency. If this helps you achieve that then it’s work a look (depending on price 😉)
Appreciate all the kind words! Consistency is definitely one of, if not the most, important aspects of brewing coffee. So there's huge potential for a product like this! Thanks again for watching.
I love my current puck prep though. RDT beans, grind into grinds catcher, dose into portafilter, wdt, use puck distributor, tamp evenly, puck screen. I find the process to be very meditative and something I would miss with the idroprep.
That’s a great point! And if you’ve already got a very consistent routine, the Idroprep may not do a whole lot.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee Have you tried using a wdt to de-clump, then Idroprep to even the density, then a distributor to then even the surface and spread the top layer evenly? I think that way you may be able to get totally even density and surface. If you wanted to go way over the top follow that with a puqpress to evenly compress.
I’m starting out in home espresso and have come to a similar puck prep (other than dosing straight into the portafilter). It is an enjoyable experience and very connective with all that lead up to the moment with the beans. Thanks for verbalizing this…there is something about just the enjoyable connection with the process that also has a place in the journey of figuring out the “best” puck prep…heart and science.
Don't discount your findings, this is excellent work (you sound like you have an engineering background)! Wow cool stuff, and you have enough trials for SD/SE, and have probable causes for the deviation. Can't really ask for more. On why TDS and EY increase with less distribution, maybe even extraction higher extraction. Unless you have bulk channeling where the center of the channel doesn't extract, small channels are local areas of higher flow and would extract more, balanced against high density areas that extract less. Outside of composition analysis (like spectrography - difficult and expensive) or taste (hard to quantify), the best you can do easily is look at the variation, which you did. But generally I'd expect the hydro shots to be more balanced and less bitter. Keep it up!
Appreciate the kind words! That's a great way of explaining the EY increase. Doing a bunch of tastings using the Idroprep is next on my list!
You forgot to add "class dismiss" after your superb article! Amazing comment!
My god, this is the most underrated coffee youtube channel there is! Awesome job! ✌
Also, one hypothesis of why the EY went up when «straight tamping» (14:19) vs other distribution methods is that it may helped with radial extraction uniformity. The grinder you used in the experiment creates a center mound. Typical espresso baskets nowadays favor flow towards the center and the periphery of the puck is less extracted due to the basket's hole pattern. Straight tamping the mound of grounds creates a lesser density in the periphery and compensates for the slightly uneven flow of modern espresso baskets. In the end, the periphery is more extracted and the EY is higher with this technique. Some people use the WDT and the ICT: inward comb technique (they purposefully create a center mound with a WDT tool) to help with radial uniformity and get higher EY.
Appreciate the kind words, and great hypothesis!
Thank you for the great video! I too was one of the first people to purchase this tamper. He arrived in March and I currently no longer use him. In any case, it is true that the consistency is already quite good, for example, if you do not spread the coffee grounds but tamp directly. The coffee was already quite reasonably extracted from the machine in the double and single basket. What I do not like, however, is the handling. I have an unpleasant feeling when tamping, because the tamper is wobbly due to the gel pad and that creates a strange feeling when tamping. Combined with the quirky design and since the metal base is very high, it feels kind of weird.
It also looks strange visually and during tamping due to the height of the metal base. The biggest drawback, however, is actually the behavior you mentioned, that the coffee grounds do not come up to the edges. I had taken this tamper, because I also assumed that the gel pad presses the coffee grounds to the outside. So I should save myself a 58.4 or 58.5 mm tamper. Instead, however, the metal edges press in the coffee grounds. This always looks very unsightly.
I do not know how it is now, but in March there was only the 58 mm version, as this was to be tested in the first test phase. Possibly the gel pad still needs to be revised so that the edges are also neatly covered. Otherwise, I'm curious how it goes with the revision of the tamper. For me, this tamper with its own design is currently not finished and the price seems too high for me. I must note, however, that I had paid only about 28 euros through an initial discount. For this I was happy to test it and certainly this tamper has great potential. But I currently prefer to stay with a classic tamper, which gives me a better feel. And with 58.5 mm I also hit the edge as far as possible.
Best regards and thanks for your great work!
Thanks for your insight! Sounds like we had very similar first impressions.
I forgot to mention the feeling when tamping. It is quite wobbly, and definitely throws you off a little bit.
I do think if they're able to fix the gel pad reaching to the edges, this could be a real game changing product!
10:00 sounds like you were actually pretty scientific with your testing methodology.
I think the problem with channeling and TDS meters is that it doesn't really tell you if it's a good shot or not, with channeling you can probably over-extract a part of the coffee and get a higher TDS still.
Also with a dark roast you might not want a 25% extraction :D More extraction doesn't necessarily mean better tasting.
Thank you for a great video! I absolutely love these kinds of scientific videos, and 40 shots is already a pretty good set for an indipendent RUclipsr! I'm sure this video will be very useful for anybody who is deciding what kind of a tamper to go for.
I guess the next questions would be about taste (which is difficult to do scientifically of course, but a bit of subjective feeling is always interesting anyway). Did you notice a difference in the taste or texture of this tamper vs a traditional tamper? (And sorry if this was somewhere and I missed it!) Or maybe if you end up still using this for a while, you could report back if you notice something in that department...?
Taste would definitely be important! I didn't mention much in the video, as I'm still experimenting with the Idroprep. It'll definitely take some time, as I'd like to play around with different pressures, but hopefully I'll be able to report back with some insights. Thanks for watching!
@@HomeGroundsCoffee Awesome! Thanks to you!
I've been dying to see someone who can speak English cover this thing.
Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Great work. Very informative. Im curious on following in case youre looking for an idea for next video ( looking forward tothe taste video)
1. What puck will look when apply it with glass basket?
2. What’s the tds& taste result comparing with spring tamper
3. Add one more scenario for using wdt
4. How to clean and any residual at the gel pad when tamping?
Great suggestions! Any tips on where to find a glass "basket"? WDT will definitely need to be looked at!
Steven, what an educational and thorough video :)!!! What I like about Sprometheus is that he does basic level science experiments. It's fun and appeals to the science nerd in me :)!!!
What you did here is exactly what I am looking for in a RUclips review. Deep dive when necessary. Definitely was necessary in this video! Certainly sufficient! You are awesome! I'll look at your other videos with Home grounds:).
I'm just said sad I have a Breville Barista Express. Would love to try such an awesome tamper!
Appreciate the kind words! We enjoyed this type of video and hope to do more in the future!
@@HomeGroundsCoffee I contacted idroprep and they'll be releasing different sizes near the end of the year :)!
@@freezingsunbreaka We just ordered the 58.4mm, so keep an eye out for an update video!
The gel pad looks like it's recessed inside of yours, but the website shows it sticking out a couple of millimetes, they also have a stand that goes with it. I wonder if this is an updated design?
Great video. You really doled down everything, the experimentation was very thorough.
Two things I wish you added:
1. I want to see a full puck prep (including WDT) vs just hand tapping on the side with the new tamper.
2. Which kinda relates to the first. I think you missed the goal or this tamper which is making the prep take much less time at a really small quality cost. My question for this would be if in your opinion you think it’s worth it?
Great video, would like to see some form of a self leveling palm tamper like the happy tamper. You could fix the edge issue and make it more precise.
That would be nice! Could even be possible to rig this current version to a self leveling palm tamper...
I agree with most you said! Great job! Only i dont necesseraly agree with claims of idropprep, if you use very good distribution and use hydrotamp you can get both very even surface and even density. I believe that uneven surface can affect flow, that not only density of a puck affects chenneling, but uneveness of surface as well. Anyway, i would like if we could see using needles distribution, as it breaks all the clumps and distribute coffee most evenly. But i know that it would take a lot of time.
I must admit that I am currently completely indifferent to tampers, because I currently do not own an espresso machine. Nevertheless, I have seen the entire video with great interest. It was just really great made and you have put more effort in there than I expected. Thank you very much.
Appreciate you watching! Happy brewing
Really great video, I appreciate all the hard work. It's possible that the non-distributed shots has higher extraction because of channeling. The channels could have been well over extracted, leading to overall higher extraction but less even extraction.
Great test! I was excited about this at first but visiting the website and watching your video (which confirmed most of my suspicions like the outer metal ring being a problem) won't let me get it anytime soon I think. Also this isn't 58,5 mm right? The edges of the puck look really messy.
Correct, it's "58"mm. It could definitely be wider along with the gel pushing further to the edges. Thanks for watching!
I came across this video without searching for idroprep and ended up watching till the end. 😆Appreciate this great work here. I was thinking about getting one until you mentioned that it doesn’t cover the edge of the basket.
Anyway, I personally use palm tapping with wdt and tamper that sits on the edge of the basket and push the middle part down so that it levels the puck. Got fair results so far 😄
For the part towards the end of the video when you mentioned that idroprep has more straight flow or it converge to one faster. Could it be because as from the experiment, the idroprep get less extraction time which means higher flow rate and that leads the fluid to combine into 1 flow faster? But I guess channelling is playing bigger role anyway. 😆
That could definitely be the case as well! There's some more testing that could be done to figure that out. Thanks for watching!
You need to taste the shots - no good just quoting EY figures. They're all very similar. Also, it seems like the data indicates EY increases for both tampers with no distribution involved. Spinning distribution tools have all be shown to decrease EY in tests. What matters if it the shots tasts better and more consistent shot to shot.
I think there’re misconceptions in many places not only here in this video;
The hypothesis of ‘theoretically even puck density = better espresso’ is still a myth and not concluded.
The hypothesis of ‘better puck prep = no channeling’ is also not very conclusive, because channeling is not only about the puck itself.
The sub-topic with another misconception being: Splattering at bottom of basket = Channeling.
But this Channeling has something to do with coffee granule’s sitting on and around each and every pores at the bottom of basket. There’s already research papers showing that regardless of how puck is prep’ed, there’s last-mile-effect at bottom of basket, where introducing micro-channels opens up the pores and makes splattering (many youtubers call it channeling) completely gone, and this is done by inserting a layer of filter paper.
In several videos shared by idroprep, a single shot basket is always used, to exaggerate and to convince us the laypersons, visually, that there’s higher chances that density is highly uneven when a normal tamper is used.
But don’t we already knew most of us are using double-shot basket?
In addition, how will idroprep convince barista not to spin the tamper after tamping? (Imagine that the spinning is going to introduce abrasions on the rubber membrane and shorten its life)
Very true. My assumption would be that they use the single baskets to really drive home the point of the Idroprep.
As for spinning the tamper, baristas should know by now not to do that with any tamper. Not sure of what affects it would have on the Idroprep.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee Spinning:
I personally spin to remove ground coffee that still stuck to the side wall of tamper before removing the tamper. Not sure about Baristas and others?
It’s ok for hard tamper.
But it might not be recommended for idroprep, as the rubber surface might have high frictional coefficient with ground coffee, and might not be good for the rubber membrane for it being abrasive?
Yea spinning is usually not recommended, at least in cafe settings, as you're more likely to apply pressure while doing so and ruin the flat tamp. There's zero benefit in doing it anyways, so I never do it.
I think that if you don’t use a distribution tool you have a better extraction because the distribution tool lets the smaller particles settle to the bottom creating a denser bottom layer preventing more TDS. But I’m no scientist.
Only 58 mm and 58.4 mm available on the website? No 53.5 mm idroprep available.
The 58.4mm is new, so hopefully more sizes are coming!
Question: In combining the standard deviations of 1 and 2, did you just add the values? It kind of looks like it, because if you compare it to 3 and 4 the 1/2 standard deviation looks a lot higher to what it should be. And to combine those, dividing by 2 would probably be more informative.
The combined standard deviations are taken from all of the numbers within the two sets. So since the average numbers in each set were so different from one another, the overall standard deviation shot up. Good question though!
If I remember correctly, that is not how two sets can be combined, there is an set of extra operations for that, I think.
Oh interesting! It’s been a few years since I took statistics, so you very well may be correct. Let me know if you find anything, would love to add a correction!
Unfortunately, I have lost those notes, maybe i will find something online.
However, as the Standard deviations of sets 1 and 2 were quite different, the combination of both would probably not work, as it would suggest that those two sets of data aare to different.
Great point. Hopefully someone can chime in! Thanks again.
Can always use a little more coffee nerdery in my RUclips feed. Subbed.
Awesome! Thank you!
Great channel bro. My first time here.
Thanks for watching!
I'm an analytical chemist and using the through water that is the same water through the machine that would be making the espresso is the proper way to zero out your refractometer since it is the solvent in the extraction
Thanks, that was my thinking as well!
I grind, then tamp.
works great.
Looks like a massively half finished design with the ridges left and all that floating coffee will get washed into the puck under pressure, kind of missing the point of consistent density no? It also looks fiddly and delicate plus hard to clean. My guess is that the gel thing would suffer a catastrophic incident within a week. Not tempted in the slightest to buy one.
Good points on it seeming half-finished. Surprisingly easy to clean though, and the gel pad is way sturdier than I thought!
Great work, have subbed as a result. I was wondering if you'd played with a blind shaker for distribution? For some reason WDT is a disaster in my climate, the shaker plus a happy tamper is where I'm at, but this hydroforming development is interesting, I'll certainly keep my eye on it.
Thanks for the kind words! I don't currently own a blind shaker, but definitely an interesting one to try out. Plenty of people have been suggesting other things to test out, so I may just have to make a follow-up video.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee I managed to pick one up for $30CAD on Amazon, it's exactly the same design as the Weber but way way cheaper. Looking forward to more of your videos in the future.
Hi! Thank you! Really interesting!!! I would love to see the results using this tamper with the single espresso basket. Being pressure the main advantage, maybe it’s a good tool to prep singles!!! Standard tampers really do not perform great in that task I think. Well, thank you anyway!!!!
Good point, probably something good to look into in the future!
@@HomeGroundsCoffee yes please do, the website also showcases in there video using a single basket.
Someone at idroprep used triz.
Heard of Asics Gel?
Heard of Nike Air?
The higher (average extraction yields ) of non distributed shots, imho would be that there are VERY high extractions in the channels and less dense areas. Lending the numbers to be skew a bit higher than it “seems like it should be”
That seems to be the most likely scenario. Thanks for the insight!
Can't find the taste chapter, does it taste better for you?
I tkink with less distribution you will have more mocca-like emulsion-effect Like in a Nespress-capsule.
The more homogenouse the Flow thru the Coffee-Puck the finer you can grind or lower the pressure as more homogenouse the Flow is the faster the Extraction is.
I think with hydro-tec Tamper you have less Problems with unforgiving beans/roasts.
Great summary, thanks!
@@HomeGroundsCoffee By the way, Independent from your RUclips-video Here I did some Experiments with Senseo-Pads in a Senseo Select (the one with still Just 5 Spray shower head instead of 40 smaller Sprays additional to the Basic 5 wider ones. Senseo Original and Senseo Quadrante have the 45 Spray shower head).
E.g. at Senseo-Pads from dutch Brand Favor a Hydro-Forming-effect is Most evident.
If you First do a Short Flush and then Stop the brewing, Open the brew-head and than try to Push Out the Air (pre-flush Blooming effect) Out of the Pad with the bottom of a teaspoon you experience the Resistance of the Filtermaterial of the coffee-pad. It does Not really let the liquid Out as you May expect.
So reversing that effect. The hot water coming from the Brew head/shower head pushed down the Filtermaterial of the Pads, does somekind of homogenouse tampering or hydro-Forming.
I do Not say that Senseo makes the best Coffee but Senseo-Pads with Robusta in it Delivery Coffee with a clear chocolate taste as you would expect If a Coffee/coffee-bean/roast is Marketed with Aromas incl. Chocolate. I'm talking Not about real chocolate as ingredient Here. I mean chocolate as an aroma from the roasted coffee-bean Like Herbs or fruits at Arabica.
Back tomthe Trick with the teaspoon at any Senseo. As Senseo-pad offers somekind of hydro-Forming you neither do the Trick with pre-flush and the teaspoon nor do tampering before brewing Just Take Care that the Coffee is distributed in the Pad. Means you should Not hold IT on one Side/Edge and Shake all the coffee to one Side.
No distribution with your Fingers. The coffee should should lay evenly distributed in the Pad.
Hydro-Forming is a good and reasonable Approach at portafilters Machines.
Are you still using the idroprep? Do you still think it’s good?
I do not use the Idroprep currently. Unless they come out with one with the pad extending to the edges of the basket, I don't believe they are beneficial.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee so even the 58.4mm poses issues? What did you find the issue was at the edges or the basket? Worse than regular tampers?
Yea I purchased the 58.4 and it didn't fix anything. The issue is that the gel pad itself doesn't extend all the way to the edges, so the metal enclosure is tamping the coffee on the edge.
@@HomeGroundsCoffee so basically it produces a similar edge to a regular tamper…does it channel there because of that?
Live blind taste test would be great mate.
Noted for a future follow-up video!
But how did the coffee taste? Surely that’s what’s most important. :)
Definitely something to explore more in a follow-up video!
Love science!
Definitely needs to go to edge of basket.
Very true. If they're able to make that happen, this could be huge!
Dang dude, I hope they paid you well for this 🤣
Not paid or even in contact with them! Just genuinely interested.
For the love of God do not throw up on the screen please that'd be really gross. 😂
Thank you for your hard work on this one appreciate it very much have a wonderful day
Thanks for the kind words!
Haha it took me a bit to understand the first comment. Don't worry, no throwing up will happen on the screen 😁
@@HomeGroundsCoffee lol 😂 🥂
@@HomeGroundsCoffee your welcome 💜
25mins for a tamper review really 😳
You’re right, we shouldn’t of cut so much information out. 30min would have been the perfect amount.
If you can't taste the difference, you're just getting lost in the weeds. Although the Japanese Tea Ceremony is a beautiful thing, I just want my cuppa tea, now. Same with Espresso. It's just coffee. You can get hung up on minuscule details that don't matter by amount of extra effort.
For artisan cafes, best shot is important.
For busy artisan cafes, consistently pulling best shot quickly is important.
Question: does the gel pad add another problem for Barista? Maintenance?
Hygiene?
Longevity?
Great points! The gel pad does add a new layer of "potential" problems, although I don't think it is that bad. If it breaks, yea you're unfortunately out of a tamper until you can get a replacement. Hygiene is the only other one I can see problems for, as they don't recommend washing it with super hot water.
I was one of the 1st who received this tamper, which is totally useless!
Interesting! What makes you say that?
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