Look up the Wong Shun-Leung lineage. He was a boxer before he took up ving tsun, and that's reflected in his style. He was referred to as "the king of talking hands" but the nickname was a misnomer. What made him and his students good at what they did is that they considered hand trapping to be a _consequence_ of their footwork and striking, rather than the objective of the art. If they're not in a position to hit or control you, they cut to your flank while pinning your arm to your torso. If they touch your arm, they turn a boxing match into a clinch fight. If they can't, then they just hit you or move around you. Their style is less like the ving tsun you'd see in movies or in the Shaolin temple, and more like dirty boxing.
I remember how the Gracie's spoke about 90% of fights going to the ground but realized something in training Chinese martial arts. Every method regardless of how big the movements look is a clinch fighting method. Boxers are trained fighters trained in the way they fight. Most people who fight with anger or ego first may definitely try to wrestle/grapple you. So at the end of the day you have a few choices. De-escalate or run. Escalate and jump into the pool all in. All I'm saying is start closer to your opponent and work the drills with someone grabbing you. The arm placements quickly turn into framing and attacks meant to distract and overwhelm your opponent or even buy you time.
If you're talking about in the real world, if your fight has started with your opponent grabbing you without you realizing you're about to fight, you have failed several times before this point. Soft skills of martial arts is knowing how to assess a situation, realise when someone has animosity towards you, notice a fighting stance, etc. If you are in the position to deescalate, you haven't been grabbed yet. If you've been grabbed unawares, you have been oblivious to the warning signs. Either way, starting techniques from clinch range should be a part of training and not the assumed norm.
You should have a look at Wingfight (previously Wing Revolution), from sifu Victor Gutierrez. It's a variation of Wing Chun using a MMA similar stance.
Thank you for making a vid not trashing WC. Everything you say is true, they don't do much footwork in WC. That's why to this day, I'm still very flat footed in my movements. Also when looking at the wooden dummy form, parrying from the inside makes sense because it's in the form, in section 2. Also lots of bong sao's from the inside, rather than outside, throughout the form. I got lucky with my WC instructor cause he cross trained and like to experiment with other styles, modern combative type and traditional. WC is the only style, I ever got the expert / can teach certificate and I think I was his only student he gave that to. He also did hubad which a lot of traditional WC styles don't do, I used to be able to get a strike in on every beat and with the elbow version of it, I could do the shortcuts, where you got it down to 1 beat. I learned the 1 beat short cut from a woman training to be a cage fighter at a MMA gym. Sorry for long rant, in short you speak the truth.
I have a few nit picks but that’s ok, cuz overall, it’s ok to want to dissect things we like. So I really dislike the word modern way of training. Cuz it’s just training but in a better and intelligent way. Cuz in the golden days of martial arts, they trained better than we did cuz of all the brawling and fights they did. Now days, most fights happen over who bought that donut. Too many people love to compare martial arts to a sports aspect and that alone limits the potential overall. That being said, let’s get on some wise stuff. Adam Chan said it himself. A martial art is like a tree. It’s not a table but it can be with hard work. It’s not a chair or a door. The tree is what you make it. Wing Chun does have flat footed steps but that’s not a bad thing. It’s Better for stabilization when doing grappling, but difficult to dodge with side stepping. The bouncy steps that a lot of people do in kickboxing works for their kicks, but sucks when trying to stop getting taken down. So by saying modern way of training, really you are saying in an mma way and that’s limiting. It’s ok, all of us make those same mistakes yet wing chun also needs it. I’m not denying at all that wing chun, has a lot of crap teachers. In fact, wing chun deserves to be talked bad about cuz of its bad representation, but the art itself is a capsule that is waiting for the right people to release. Dominic Izzo has demonstrated that wing chun is a single system cuz of his wrestlers mindset. Kevin Lee learned to apply his wing chun in his bjj. His instructor literally told him to use a wing chun structure and Kevin stopped getting neck grabbed while on the floor. And as you say, a boxer dissected wing chun into its form to you. Cross tracing can be good but as long as it helps you get to where you want to go with it. Not everyone wants to compete and that where being flat footed isn’t bad. I can’t bounce every single second and I’m fit myself. Being that mobile burns energy and if I were to get attacked, I want as much energy pushing them back and get out alive. I’ll burn everything by bouncing and I’ll stop being alive. I hope this is constructive and maybe shine some light into furthering your perspective. I thank you for sharing and you given my ideas for my wing chun. I just hope you learn from those masters I have mentioned. They have RUclips channels and are the pioneers of wing chun. 😊
I was curious, due to my ignorance, if there is more to wing chun from a historical viewpoint? Or do you think that people do tend to cross train different systems and bring it together into their own style?
I've noticed alot more positive content on Wing Chun lately. I think that's great. One thing about this video though...you left out a critical point about forward pressure. The reason Wing Chun works is because you're pushing into contact, into the clinching/trapping space -- into contact so you can use the "stickiness" (tactile sense is about twice as fast as visual sense) to make the trapping work. If you stay outside and try to parry and catch at punching range, yes it may work sometimes, but you've got to have crazy fast hand speed to make it work consistently. Trapping happens at punching range in the movies because the camera can see the beauty of the hand work, but its really nto practical at that range. To make trapping work, you have to be at trapping/clinch range. That's where the stickiness comes in. That's also why the concept of "fa jin" (power generation in a compact space) is really important to Wing Chun. All the arts from the South China Sea region feature hand manipulations -- Okinawan Karate, Wing Chun, Kali, Silat, etc. -- they all trace back to southern styles of Kung Fu (especially White Crane, but also Southern Mantis and Snake) that proliferated outward from southern China on the maritime trading networks. Where Wing Chun is a little different, is that it took that southern approach and got very exacting about the geometry of concept.
The problem with Wing Chun is that trapping range is emphasized in Wing Chun. Nobody wants to fight in the trapping range. If we look at all striking fights today, none of them happen at striking range, it is either long range with kicks and jabs for resting, punching range for pressure, and clinching range. You can't force people to fight in the trapping range. Wing Chun people think that you can force people into the trapping range by constantly moving forward but you actually can't. If you can't walk backwards indefinitely, you clinch up; and no, pushing and punching your opponent to bring them into trapping range doesn't work, if it did, we wouldn't spend years trying to figure out how to leave the clinch safely in class. Trapping range fighters, most, if not all fail. If we look at standup grappling martial arts like Judo, they fight in that range pretty well; problem is that they don't strike each other. And when striking is introduced, trapping range is gone. Look at Judokas in MMA; none of them deliver throws in trapping range, they all grapple at clinch range. This is also one of the reason why Judo fails in MMA, their over reliance on trapping range. Trapping Range only works well during ground fights. Ground fighting operates at 2 ranges, clinch and trapping. It is easy to maintain the trapping range; gaining distance is not an option as we are on the ground, and we are gripping each other. Hugging can make you exit trapping range, but you also have the ability to prevent it by pushing; yes, pushing away doesn't work in striking, but it does in grappling.
@@hellohennessy3462 There's three things wrong with your argument... First, trapping range overlaps with the inner half of punching range and the outer half of clinch range. There's plenty of Wing Chun to be done at clinch range. Its not like its a bubble that everyone can scrupulously avoid. You have to go through trapping range to transition between punching and clinching. One of the best things about Wing Chun is that it focuses on the most common ranges in non-sport fighting. Second, Wing Chun is really not for sport fighting. Its a self-defense art. Most self-defense fights start in trapping range because they start as verbal conversations. If the other guy keeps backing up, then let them go and get to safety. You won. Also, if you're fighting in the a regular life space and not a ring or a big open field, then the ability to back up is usually very limited. Lastly, and this is the most important point, trapping isn't for long exchanges. Its not like in the movies. Trapping doesn't look like a Donnie Yen movie. (Striking doesn't look like a Van Damme move either.) Its not these complex four or five trap exchanges. Wing Chun isn't "focused on trapping" like the video says. Its focused on close range striking -- it often uses traps to clear the line to strike, but it doesn't trap just for trapping sake. Trapping is one (or maybe two manipulations) to open the line to strike or to make a clinch entry on your terms -- and then to violently finish.
Handtrapping is such a fun rabbit hole! I was never good at using them sparring until I started taking regular boxing lessons. I think you make a great point about footwork and its cool looking at handtrapping from different ranhes. Cool stuff!
I always felt Wing Chun practitioners need to study the Boxing Cross Guard, both the Archie Moore traditional Cross Guard and Gene Fullmer’s Reverse Cross Guard. This guard is in the SLT form, its basically a modified Quan Sao, its a VERY legitimate and proven guard. Its the answer to not getting smashed by fast hooks and overhands, and it puts you into Lap Sao constantly, its awesome.
One of the main issues is the practitioners don’t spar, you can make anything work if you know where to apply it. I do Wing Chun, Boxing, and Wrestling. Wing Chun is my base, Wing Chun only requires 2 things learning the 1st form and actually doing the conditioning. Do those 2 things and everything else comes easy and can be applied, AND MAKE SURE TO SPAR!
We spar. I’m a bb in sport karate, a red belt in kemp and also training WC. We spar. Maybe not as much as I would prefer but I get to apply my WC at my kempo school when I spar.
This awesome to see. You’re applying traditional stuff in modern ways and if you’re interested in applying more wing chun techniques, check Adam Chan’s applications and explanations
No, the best knock outs don't come out of hand traps. I can only find a single instance of it. And trust me, I am an FMA fan, if I ever see hand traps, it sticks out like green tree in winter. First trapping technique in the video: You parry, slip to the outside, then use the other hand to prevent the opponent from hitting you again? A way better and easier way to do this is, parry slip overhand. What happens if the opponent backfists you? Well nothing. You narrowly slipped the punch by a few centimeters, you don't expect a punch that'll hurt you with such little room to get speed. And if the opponent moves their arm back to gain power, too late, you are already done with what you are doing, and you can safely recover your position. Still talking about the first technique shown: The second hand trap. Look, the opponent threw 1 punch, 1 move, and you are supposed to do 2 separate moves on it? By the time the second hand trap makes contact with the opponent's arm, he is already retracting his arm, he already turned his hip towards you and countered with a punch. Fighting is like a game of chess, each move costs you a turn. The only way you get an extra turn is if you are two times faster. And pretending that you are two times faster is just over confidence and stupidity. Nice, Hubud drill is pretty cool. Even worse, you are slapping, this means that the opponent can easily get rid of the trap and regain his position further proving my point. Well said, boxing works very well against a 1 - 2. Well, actually, that cross is still coming. If you put the camera on the ceiling, there is a center of symmetry. Meaning, the opponent can hit you as much as you can hit them. This why you see in many existing Boxing matches: slip to the outside; both fighters hit each other and block at the same time. Looking at frame 4:39 where is you just proved my point, you will both hit each other at the same time. And I thank you for this because other videos will have the instructor punch twice as fast giving the illusion that their technique is superior. Here, you can clearly see that at equal speeds, Wing Chun, FMA doesn't offer and advantages. 6:13 basically boxing, nothing new. 6:20 extremely good trap. 7:15 deflecting with the opposite arm like that leaves you vulnerable. Just look at the Bong Sau, your entire body is exposed that the opponent has access to your entire body with his off-hand. You just gave your opponent a free angle advantage. 7:57 there it is, that is correct. Problem is, feints. Opponent feints, you react, you get hit in the body. This is also a thing I notice in Traditional martial arts as a whole, they don't feint. I think I know why feints don't exist in the eastern world. Feints is dishonorable. Tricking is seen as dishonorable. That is the only explanation I have. 8:35 refrained from talking about it earlier, but with this camera angle, it helps me. Purple guy throws a jab, Green shirt guy parries, THEN green shirt guy follows up with a cross. Now where is the purple guy's follow up? Let's count together, 1 - Purple jabs, Green shirt parries. 2 - Green shirt follows up with a cross. See the problem? green didn't follow up when he could. So if it is done correctly, 2 - Green shirt follows up with a cross, purple guy slips or delivers a cross. 8:47 very good counter. 9:33 Finally, the feint. The bane of Wing Chun and FMA. At the end with the sticky hands, Chi Sau, it is a good concept. Yes, Chi Sau is a good concept. However, when are you going to use it in a fight? How many opportunities are you going to get to use it? Not a lot. So why must you spend so much time training it. All I see is just wasted time. By the time you become a Wing Chun, FMA master, that Muay Thai guy that started his training the same time as you is already fighting in competitions and winning amateur fights. If your master struggles against an amateur of another martial art, you should start asking questions about your master or your martial art. 12:08 Chain punch! Surprisingly, chain punching can actually work. Chain punching doesn't deal much power. All of you saying that chain punching deals damage, no it doesn't. Maybe for you it does because you've never been pressured by a Brawler type boxer. but no, chain punching is weak. What chain punching is good for though, is gaining position. Instead of seeing it as a series of punches, see it as a bunch of hammer fists. The opponent jabs, you hammer fist it away, the cross comes, you hammer fist it again, then you hammer fist your opponent. ONCE that hammer fist successfully lands, use regular old boxing and pressure your opponent with power punches.
Trapping works but not as something you just do for the sake of doing. These drills are more about developing the sense of touch, position, and angles. Trapping is meant to be the way you enter what Demetrius Johnson calls "the void," and angle off for attacks. This is what Bruce Lee was trying to get across with JKD. Trapping is essential, but it's really something that should only be happening for a fraction of a second before you enter. Also, the big reason you don't see more trapping in boxing is because it's against the rules of boxing. Look it up. But if you look at older texts you find a lot of trapping techniques shown as "dirty boxing."
Like you said "SUB SYSTEMS". Both MMA COACHES Greg Nelson and Erik Paulson teach Wing Chun moves to their MMA fighters. They are both students under Dan Inosanto. Who was a student under Bruce Lee.
That was by far the worst demonstration of wing Chun I have ever seen. WC is about principles, not techniques...this dude has never done any Wing Chun style...periode😢
You ever heard of Duncan leung? He was a personal and private student of Ip Man and has some practical wing chun training you may find interesting. There is a youtube channel called ultimate martial arts academy which is one of his students
@@hopelesslydull7588 I think i would know, bud. Have over 20 yrs of wing chun experience. There are no blocks. If you understand what it means to "block"
@@S.N.T.247 Oh, you were being weirdly obtuse. Got it. Parrying a punch with slap or forearm is a block. Catching a punch with an elbow is a block. Just because you don't call it a block for the sake of your martial arts' philosophy doesn't change what it is.
Your footwork point is awesome. KungFu training is far Far too flat-footed. Not many learn “live leg kungfu” instead of “dead legs kungfu.” And the popular branch of Wing Chun (Ip Man lineage) really has not a lot of footwork compared to mainland Wing Chun like Yuen Kay San, Chan Wah Shun, Fukien Wing Chun or even Wing Chun County White Crane. You are absolutely right. That said though, CONTEXT is important. So the result of the premise is a massive reduction of Wing Chun though. Wing Chun is not the art of trapping. Trapping is just a single skill across all southern styles. But, There is no KungFu style that is primarily based on Striking except maybe a newer one like Yi Quan which is Western Boxing + Xing Yi. All of the cultures involved in the life cycle of KungFu - Chinese, Tibetan, Mongolian, Manchurian, their cultural martial art is Wrestling. Hand trapping is an important Aspect, but, as can be seen in both Chi Sau and the Wooden Dummy is that it is about Grappling as a whole, not just parry / trap and strike. Wing Chun is not so different from Muay Thai / Muay Chaiya, particularly Muay Sok / Muay Plum styles, however, the roots of Muay Thai is Striking and Weapnry and the roots of Wing Chun is Grappling and Weaponry. The emphasis is different. And that also explains SOME of why there is more Shifting, than there is lots of footwork. It’s close quarters, tight confined space clinch-work more than it is “Boxing” Now, we can also look at Sanshou / San Da, even after absorbing Boxing, Muay Thai, Sambo… still what those fighters are best known for is Kuai Jiao - “Fast Throws” which comes from Combat Shuai Jiao, the old Chinese-Mongolian-Manchu Wrestling. The golf swing leg catch takedown from Shaolin Long Fist is the most notable one. Aka in Tai Chi, Wave Hands like Clouds. Looks like some sideways blocks or parries, if you don’t know the context. But it’s actually either an arm drag, that was adapted also in modern times as a leg catch So, no, please don’t eventually start chain punching lol. Chain punch is just a practice for the theory of replacing your hand, while moving forward. It’s not meant to be like Boxing, where you retract the hand and go into your angling. It’s meant to land something, and from that point on, apply pressure while controlling, pushing, pulling, etc. You have to think of it more like from a Private Security perspective… because that’s what it is. Security guard or bouncer almost always you keep one hand on their chest or somewhere on their body or as a physical barrier so they can’t sucker you or try to go around you. And if they act up, then you apply pressure. You have to think self protection like that, and protecting others. Same with law enforcement. One hand forward, one hand securing the firearm or whatever on their belt. In old days it’d be a blade, or even a bag of shrapnel they would throw. The old Gracie concept is not so different when they talk about red zone, green zone. Once they touch you, they’re trying to wrap you up and lock you down immediately. It’s just that Chinese and Mongolian Martial Arts do not like going to the ground. You goto the ground, you got stabbed through the gaps in your armor and you died. Context changes everything. But, absolutely, blending Wing Chun and Muay Thai for modern times is an excellent idea and something I suggest to my Wing Chun friends allll the time. Both arts also have some history in Yunnan region
Let me get this straight… you’re gonna praise Wing Chun and JKD for its effectiveness to redirect your opponent and trap them; so they can’t fight you. Then knock on Kenpo 3 years ago? Did your option change? You’re blocking at the arm and then the elbow is essentially what we do in Kenpo. So they can’t turn into you or strike you with a collapsing elbow. In addition, the rhythm and drilling that is unrealistic is basically what Kenpo is about lol. I’m just confused cause Kenpo and Wing Chun are super similar in some respects. Please help me understand your distaste for Kenpo, and your love of wing chun. I know you’re a Kajukenbo black belt too. Thanks!
So yes, wing chun and kenpo are similar in the way they approach redirecting and controlling space. They are dissimilar in that wing chun is primarily, popularily, known for hand trapping and counter punching. My critique of kenpo is that it trains 3-4-5-6 responses to a single attack, and calls these movements “options” or “ideal phase,” rather than training them individually in a vacuum. Can strikes flow together? Absolutely. Economy of motion is a real thing, but that doesn’t mean approaching all training through that lens is beneficial. In fact, I could levy the same criticism towards wing chun, which is why in the first 30 seconds I said “they do it wrong.”
@@CombatSelfDefense You say that you dislike kempo for having 3-4-5-6 responses to one attack when in the first demonstration you basically did what you disagreed except you called it wing chun. Which isn't true because wing chun understands you need to use one movement against one attack. I don't know about kempo, someone else could clarify. You are only saying wing chun does it wrong because you don't do wing chun, so you don't understand wing chun so no wonder you do it wrong, thus you believe that we do it wrong.
@@CombatSelfDefense thanks for the clarification, man! So I’d I teach Kenpo as an open book and in a “vacuum” as you describe to intermediate and advanced level students at the dojo when I was 14-18 years old. That school closed due to COVID and the instructor moving on to a different journey in life. Now that I’m on my own I’ll incorporate teaching the ideal, what-if, and formulation stages from day one to my new students from the beginning to explore options from day one. Also the multiple movements don’t necessarily take care of one attack rather it’s just more movement for when you’re in different distances, positions, or stances, etc. For example in BJJ: a popular sequence from full guard is go from armbar to triangle to omoplata; maybe even k-guard too if you want or if a movement fails. You just drill the sequence and can rescript, alter, rearrange, insert, or delete techniques. Yet I’m sure you know this because of your research and experience in kakukenbo and martial arts🙏💯
I have. Ended in seconds. Not from anything as drastic as a knockout but the buy was so surprised by 3 vertical punches delivered from the clinch that bloodied his nose.
Love this channel but sorry to say that was crappy wing chun. Too clingy. It could be a lineage thing. Check out Brian Kwong in Manhattan or new jersey. You’ll see proper wing chun.
Sorry, mate, but you don't know anything about Wing Chun. You shouldn't judge martial arts by movies or people who show individual exercises or know only the basic level, which is called Siu Lim Tao. What you showed is wrong from the point of view of Wing Chun. In the First Application, you will never have time to make 2-3 movements in one tempo of the opponent's strike. And a person who sparres in the Wing Chun style knows this. What you showed is a preparatory exercise to do this in motion. With gaps in distance, leaving the line of attack at angles and reducing the distance. We do not slap the opponent's hands, but affect the entire structure, for this you need to do the technique, as if through the hand into the central axis of the opponent. This allows you to affect his center of gravity and the turn of the shoulders, limiting his movements and making it difficult to go into a counterattack. Bong sao is rarely used at a long distance, it is needed for a short, close to clinch distance(And this distance that we need to reach, where chi sao works, is our special advantage and that of all southern styles of kung fu (and it doesn’t work the way you showed =Ь)), where the whole arm can already affect the opponent's shoulder and his entire mass. To grab the arm and strike under it, we have kao sao. To meet the opponent's fist (where you tried to use bong sao), we have lan sao and an elbow strike. And so on. I can't show and explain everything, and I can't vouch for the nearest wing chun school where you could go and see what they do. Instead, I suggest watching how the guys from the school IWCO (International Wing Chun Organization) in Russia train. Here are a few videos. I advise you to watch carefully and slow down, many of the videos seem chaotic, but they have logic and effectiveness. P.S. Sorry for my bad English. If anything, I can analyze some element and principle separately, sending examples and describing in detail, but I can't do this to describe the work of the entire style in one message. ruclips.net/video/P3NZWs7jaJk/видео.html ruclips.net/video/RPf-dILIz_o/видео.html ruclips.net/user/shorts6Ei_tn8YHuI ruclips.net/video/wmzjFTLI2Dc/видео.html ruclips.net/user/shorts1VybUGSPofw ruclips.net/video/44_bEZxClWM/видео.html ruclips.net/user/shortsLlKWnCT8_Ik ruclips.net/user/shortsLN-owaECMgQ
As someone who has done Wing Chun, what I am about to say here will wither piss off or make Wing Chun people happy. The problem with a lot of interpretation of Wing Chun is Wing Chun is treated like a kickboxing or striking style. This is problematic, because there is very little kickboxing applicable footwork in Wing Chun. I think, and I'm not the only one, that Wing Chun was intended originally to work in a hand fighting distance akin to what you see in Judo. As evidence for this, the opening part of Mook Yong training in Wing Chun starts with a collar tie, and the majority of the techniques on the Mook Yong happen at arm's length. Add to that a lot of techniques like Kwan Sau act as a way to free the hands or make space to set up a strike. Furthermore Wing Chun heavily used grabs and pulls to set up strikes This would explain the lack of footwork. Wing Chun has always been sold as an infighting style, so it would make more sense for it to function better in a hand fighting distance. Think just a little step back from clinch fighting. That's probably not a great idea to fight under kickboxing rules, but it seems useful to me in a fight where an aggressive opponent is closing position. Of course this makes it problematic trying to shoehorn Wing Chun into pure striking situations, but unfortunately due to movies people expect Wing Chun to be implemented as a striking style, when in realty it would problem do better as an infighting or dirty boxing style. That said, there is immense value in trying to experiment and pressure test ways to use Wing Chun in a kickboxing scenario, and the ideas presented in this video are brilliant. Every fighting style can benefit from expanding its horizons. My understanding of pre 20th century Muay Thai/Muay Boran was more of a clinch fighting style with little to no outfighting used, and look at the striking juggernaut Muay Thai has become. It always pays dividends to evolve.
Tighten that up a bit, your movements are too wide, plus Wing Chun is based on simultaneous attack and defense, slap/hit at the same time, that first drill you're doing was original from Kali and some Wing Chun people adopted it into their system, your trapping should be abrupt and end an opponent quickly, don't get me wrong Kali is a great are for trapping too. You got some points they just need more refining.
Dr. Leung Ting, author of The Chinese Vagabonds - The Lin Keui. 10th Dan or Sifu was able to strike as fast and has been actually documented, filmed and measured at .09 sec/srrike. 11 strikes in one second. That's the real reason along with the trapping sticky hands that makes it so deadly and one of the best martial arts to increase striking speed. Combined with Muy Thai, Judo/Jujitsu, Sambo, Boxing and/or 52 Strikes would almost complete a martial artists repertoire.
@CombatSelfDefense I believe Dr. Leung Ting was actually videotaped on some of the first combat sports and martial arts series on cable television. I'll see if I cant find the series where they actually taped him up with biometrics to his body and the punching machine to measure the speed of his punches. It was in the 1990s or early 2000s.
@@CombatSelfDefensewhen I was a kid, elder students and I traveled from New Mexico to Tucson to visit and train with WC GM Augustine Fong. Viewed this Leung Ting video and collectively laughed. It was staged and obviously sped up.
Sorry mate, we appreciate your open mindedness towards wing chun yet you neglected a lot of core concepts of wing chun. 1st example: 4 movements against 1 punch. You neglected the principle of directness. 2nd example: You keep parrying away his punches with sideways. You neglected the centerline I can keep going and going but none of these demonstrations are valid enough to explain your point that handtrapping is not done correctly in wing chun. Many martial arts do trapping, its just that wing chun specializes in trapping, it knows how to disrupt your balance while attacking and defending safely without trading. Without formal training in wing chun, this video does not bring reliable information to not just us wing chun practitioners, but also general public who dont know wing chun as well. Furthering the delusion already created.
The problem with Wing Chun is that it's based on geometry and in the geometric sense it's correct, but the human limits, like reaction time, reflexes and coordination are not good enough to make it work. If you had a reaction time like between 0,01 - 0,05 sec then Wing Chun would be invincible, but for real humans it won't. Beyond that people use to have bad thinking about Kung Fu. There were more than 600 Kung Fu styles in China, most of them were already lost. It's kind of absurd to think that Kung Fu doesn't work. In the past people needed to know how to fight in order to survive. What happens is that today there are many bad teachers and many bad schools, SOMETHING WAS LOST ALONG THE YEARS. I think at some point, people stop fighting/sparring and they started to just train in a more theoretical manner. For example, Muay Thay is very respect nowadays, but I have found some Muay Thay fighters with 3 years of training and they know nothing, they were really very very bad. The problem is Muay Thay? No. It's bad teacher and bad school. Nevertheless I think Wing Chun can be a very good addition to people that already know how to fight, and then adding Wing Chun could improve one's performance.
Common misconception. Wing Chun is not intended to be a reactionary system. The purpose of these drills is to develop a sense of touch so you can anticipate the movements instead of reacting to them.
@@dx5soundlabs939 Lots of Wing Chun techniques would require too much fast reaction time, like simultaneous defense and attack, blocker punches or blocker kicks, which is a cool idea but extreme hard to perform. Actually these kind of techniques comes from sword techniques, but with swords it's a bit easier to perform. Close combat or inside fighting is very hard because in close range we dont have the reaction time fast enough to deal with the opponent punches, Wing Chun rely more on tactile sensitivity in close range but it still very hard. The weaker point of Wing Chun is human capabilities. You can watch some Wing Chun master in real fights against other style and they can perform some wing chun techniques in the beginning of the fight but as the opponent increases the attacks and combinations they cannot keep up.
You think Wing Chun’s little chain punches are going to do anything in a real fight? Please. Those fancy hand drills might look nice in a dojo, but out there, they’re useless. Muay Thai? It’s simple, brutal-an elbow, a knee, you’re done. You can play with your slaps and parries if you want, but in the end, only one of us is walking out.
Chain strikes are not used that often. And most often for the final pressing and finishing. I don't know why people who study Wing Chun show them so much, we don't do that. Wing Chun at a long distance is very similar to Muay Thai, except for the lack of side punches and kicks. (They are not there because they do not fit into the motor skills that Wing Chun uses at close range in the clinch, and that is where the Wing Chun fighter strives) and also opens up in the clinch with elbows, knees, sweeps and throws. The difference is in the additional control of the limbs at close range, sacrificing side punches at a long distance. I dropped a few videos there, how Wing Chun competitions and training are held in Russia, I advise you to watch.
Chain punches can do damage but that depends on how good the structure of the individual is. At the very least what they definitely do cause an overwhelming attack that can be used to break the structure and gain advantage on an opponent and transition to boxing techniques or whatever you have.
Look up the Wong Shun-Leung lineage. He was a boxer before he took up ving tsun, and that's reflected in his style. He was referred to as "the king of talking hands" but the nickname was a misnomer. What made him and his students good at what they did is that they considered hand trapping to be a _consequence_ of their footwork and striking, rather than the objective of the art. If they're not in a position to hit or control you, they cut to your flank while pinning your arm to your torso. If they touch your arm, they turn a boxing match into a clinch fight. If they can't, then they just hit you or move around you. Their style is less like the ving tsun you'd see in movies or in the Shaolin temple, and more like dirty boxing.
I’ll look him up.
Nailed it.
Nice description. Thanks for sharing
No, that’s incorrect. He was just doing Wing Chun correctly. Trapping was never the goal of Wing Chun.
@@MrCBTman trapping is never the goal, it's a brief moment of entry used to close distance and create effective angles of attack
I remember how the Gracie's spoke about 90% of fights going to the ground but realized something in training Chinese martial arts. Every method regardless of how big the movements look is a clinch fighting method. Boxers are trained fighters trained in the way they fight. Most people who fight with anger or ego first may definitely try to wrestle/grapple you. So at the end of the day you have a few choices. De-escalate or run. Escalate and jump into the pool all in. All I'm saying is start closer to your opponent and work the drills with someone grabbing you. The arm placements quickly turn into framing and attacks meant to distract and overwhelm your opponent or even buy you time.
If you're talking about in the real world, if your fight has started with your opponent grabbing you without you realizing you're about to fight, you have failed several times before this point.
Soft skills of martial arts is knowing how to assess a situation, realise when someone has animosity towards you, notice a fighting stance, etc.
If you are in the position to deescalate, you haven't been grabbed yet. If you've been grabbed unawares, you have been oblivious to the warning signs. Either way, starting techniques from clinch range should be a part of training and not the assumed norm.
You should have a look at Wingfight (previously Wing Revolution), from sifu Victor Gutierrez. It's a variation of Wing Chun using a MMA similar stance.
Thank you for making a vid not trashing WC. Everything you say is true, they don't do much footwork in WC. That's why to this day, I'm still very flat footed in my movements. Also when looking at the wooden dummy form, parrying from the inside makes sense because it's in the form, in section 2. Also lots of bong sao's from the inside, rather than outside, throughout the form.
I got lucky with my WC instructor cause he cross trained and like to experiment with other styles, modern combative type and traditional. WC is the only style, I ever got the expert / can teach certificate and I think I was his only student he gave that to. He also did hubad which a lot of traditional WC styles don't do, I used to be able to get a strike in on every beat and with the elbow version of it, I could do the shortcuts, where you got it down to 1 beat. I learned the 1 beat short cut from a woman training to be a cage fighter at a MMA gym.
Sorry for long rant, in short you speak the truth.
I have a few nit picks but that’s ok, cuz overall, it’s ok to want to dissect things we like. So I really dislike the word modern way of training. Cuz it’s just training but in a better and intelligent way. Cuz in the golden days of martial arts, they trained better than we did cuz of all the brawling and fights they did. Now days, most fights happen over who bought that donut. Too many people love to compare martial arts to a sports aspect and that alone limits the potential overall. That being said, let’s get on some wise stuff. Adam Chan said it himself. A martial art is like a tree. It’s not a table but it can be with hard work. It’s not a chair or a door. The tree is what you make it. Wing Chun does have flat footed steps but that’s not a bad thing. It’s Better for stabilization when doing grappling, but difficult to dodge with side stepping. The bouncy steps that a lot of people do in kickboxing works for their kicks, but sucks when trying to stop getting taken down. So by saying modern way of training, really you are saying in an mma way and that’s limiting. It’s ok, all of us make those same mistakes yet wing chun also needs it. I’m not denying at all that wing chun, has a lot of crap teachers. In fact, wing chun deserves to be talked bad about cuz of its bad representation, but the art itself is a capsule that is waiting for the right people to release. Dominic Izzo has demonstrated that wing chun is a single system cuz of his wrestlers mindset. Kevin Lee learned to apply his wing chun in his bjj. His instructor literally told him to use a wing chun structure and Kevin stopped getting neck grabbed while on the floor. And as you say, a boxer dissected wing chun into its form to you. Cross tracing can be good but as long as it helps you get to where you want to go with it. Not everyone wants to compete and that where being flat footed isn’t bad. I can’t bounce every single second and I’m fit myself. Being that mobile burns energy and if I were to get attacked, I want as much energy pushing them back and get out alive. I’ll burn everything by bouncing and I’ll stop being alive. I hope this is constructive and maybe shine some light into furthering your perspective. I thank you for sharing and you given my ideas for my wing chun. I just hope you learn from those masters I have mentioned. They have RUclips channels and are the pioneers of wing chun. 😊
I was curious, due to my ignorance, if there is more to wing chun from a historical viewpoint? Or do you think that people do tend to cross train different systems and bring it together into their own style?
I've noticed alot more positive content on Wing Chun lately. I think that's great.
One thing about this video though...you left out a critical point about forward pressure. The reason Wing Chun works is because you're pushing into contact, into the clinching/trapping space -- into contact so you can use the "stickiness" (tactile sense is about twice as fast as visual sense) to make the trapping work. If you stay outside and try to parry and catch at punching range, yes it may work sometimes, but you've got to have crazy fast hand speed to make it work consistently. Trapping happens at punching range in the movies because the camera can see the beauty of the hand work, but its really nto practical at that range. To make trapping work, you have to be at trapping/clinch range. That's where the stickiness comes in. That's also why the concept of "fa jin" (power generation in a compact space) is really important to Wing Chun.
All the arts from the South China Sea region feature hand manipulations -- Okinawan Karate, Wing Chun, Kali, Silat, etc. -- they all trace back to southern styles of Kung Fu (especially White Crane, but also Southern Mantis and Snake) that proliferated outward from southern China on the maritime trading networks. Where Wing Chun is a little different, is that it took that southern approach and got very exacting about the geometry of concept.
The problem with Wing Chun is that trapping range is emphasized in Wing Chun.
Nobody wants to fight in the trapping range. If we look at all striking fights today, none of them happen at striking range, it is either long range with kicks and jabs for resting, punching range for pressure, and clinching range.
You can't force people to fight in the trapping range. Wing Chun people think that you can force people into the trapping range by constantly moving forward but you actually can't. If you can't walk backwards indefinitely, you clinch up; and no, pushing and punching your opponent to bring them into trapping range doesn't work, if it did, we wouldn't spend years trying to figure out how to leave the clinch safely in class.
Trapping range fighters, most, if not all fail. If we look at standup grappling martial arts like Judo, they fight in that range pretty well; problem is that they don't strike each other. And when striking is introduced, trapping range is gone. Look at Judokas in MMA; none of them deliver throws in trapping range, they all grapple at clinch range. This is also one of the reason why Judo fails in MMA, their over reliance on trapping range.
Trapping Range only works well during ground fights. Ground fighting operates at 2 ranges, clinch and trapping. It is easy to maintain the trapping range; gaining distance is not an option as we are on the ground, and we are gripping each other. Hugging can make you exit trapping range, but you also have the ability to prevent it by pushing; yes, pushing away doesn't work in striking, but it does in grappling.
@@hellohennessy3462 There's three things wrong with your argument...
First, trapping range overlaps with the inner half of punching range and the outer half of clinch range. There's plenty of Wing Chun to be done at clinch range. Its not like its a bubble that everyone can scrupulously avoid. You have to go through trapping range to transition between punching and clinching. One of the best things about Wing Chun is that it focuses on the most common ranges in non-sport fighting.
Second, Wing Chun is really not for sport fighting. Its a self-defense art. Most self-defense fights start in trapping range because they start as verbal conversations. If the other guy keeps backing up, then let them go and get to safety. You won. Also, if you're fighting in the a regular life space and not a ring or a big open field, then the ability to back up is usually very limited.
Lastly, and this is the most important point, trapping isn't for long exchanges. Its not like in the movies. Trapping doesn't look like a Donnie Yen movie. (Striking doesn't look like a Van Damme move either.) Its not these complex four or five trap exchanges. Wing Chun isn't "focused on trapping" like the video says. Its focused on close range striking -- it often uses traps to clear the line to strike, but it doesn't trap just for trapping sake. Trapping is one (or maybe two manipulations) to open the line to strike or to make a clinch entry on your terms -- and then to violently finish.
Handtrapping is such a fun rabbit hole! I was never good at using them sparring until I started taking regular boxing lessons. I think you make a great point about footwork and its cool looking at handtrapping from different ranhes. Cool stuff!
I always felt Wing Chun practitioners need to study the Boxing Cross Guard, both the Archie Moore traditional Cross Guard and Gene Fullmer’s Reverse Cross Guard. This guard is in the SLT form, its basically a modified Quan Sao, its a VERY legitimate and proven guard. Its the answer to not getting smashed by fast hooks and overhands, and it puts you into Lap Sao constantly, its awesome.
Great video! You are proly one of the most open minded and practical martial artists on youtube.
I do what i can. Thank you.
One of the main issues is the practitioners don’t spar, you can make anything work if you know where to apply it. I do Wing Chun, Boxing, and Wrestling. Wing Chun is my base, Wing Chun only requires 2 things learning the 1st form and actually doing the conditioning. Do those 2 things and everything else comes easy and can be applied, AND MAKE SURE TO SPAR!
We spar. I’m a bb in sport karate, a red belt in kemp and also training WC. We spar. Maybe not as much as I would prefer but I get to apply my WC at my kempo school when I spar.
Try white crane.
This awesome to see. You’re applying traditional stuff in modern ways and if you’re interested in applying more wing chun techniques, check Adam Chan’s applications and explanations
Alan Orr is also really good.
No, the best knock outs don't come out of hand traps. I can only find a single instance of it. And trust me, I am an FMA fan, if I ever see hand traps, it sticks out like green tree in winter.
First trapping technique in the video: You parry, slip to the outside, then use the other hand to prevent the opponent from hitting you again?
A way better and easier way to do this is, parry slip overhand. What happens if the opponent backfists you? Well nothing. You narrowly slipped the punch by a few centimeters, you don't expect a punch that'll hurt you with such little room to get speed. And if the opponent moves their arm back to gain power, too late, you are already done with what you are doing, and you can safely recover your position.
Still talking about the first technique shown: The second hand trap. Look, the opponent threw 1 punch, 1 move, and you are supposed to do 2 separate moves on it? By the time the second hand trap makes contact with the opponent's arm, he is already retracting his arm, he already turned his hip towards you and countered with a punch. Fighting is like a game of chess, each move costs you a turn. The only way you get an extra turn is if you are two times faster. And pretending that you are two times faster is just over confidence and stupidity.
Nice, Hubud drill is pretty cool.
Even worse, you are slapping, this means that the opponent can easily get rid of the trap and regain his position further proving my point.
Well said, boxing works very well against a 1 - 2.
Well, actually, that cross is still coming. If you put the camera on the ceiling, there is a center of symmetry. Meaning, the opponent can hit you as much as you can hit them. This why you see in many existing Boxing matches: slip to the outside; both fighters hit each other and block at the same time.
Looking at frame 4:39 where is you just proved my point, you will both hit each other at the same time. And I thank you for this because other videos will have the instructor punch twice as fast giving the illusion that their technique is superior. Here, you can clearly see that at equal speeds, Wing Chun, FMA doesn't offer and advantages.
6:13 basically boxing, nothing new.
6:20 extremely good trap.
7:15 deflecting with the opposite arm like that leaves you vulnerable. Just look at the Bong Sau, your entire body is exposed that the opponent has access to your entire body with his off-hand. You just gave your opponent a free angle advantage.
7:57 there it is, that is correct. Problem is, feints. Opponent feints, you react, you get hit in the body. This is also a thing I notice in Traditional martial arts as a whole, they don't feint. I think I know why feints don't exist in the eastern world. Feints is dishonorable. Tricking is seen as dishonorable. That is the only explanation I have.
8:35 refrained from talking about it earlier, but with this camera angle, it helps me. Purple guy throws a jab, Green shirt guy parries, THEN green shirt guy follows up with a cross. Now where is the purple guy's follow up? Let's count together, 1 - Purple jabs, Green shirt parries. 2 - Green shirt follows up with a cross. See the problem? green didn't follow up when he could.
So if it is done correctly, 2 - Green shirt follows up with a cross, purple guy slips or delivers a cross.
8:47 very good counter.
9:33 Finally, the feint. The bane of Wing Chun and FMA.
At the end with the sticky hands, Chi Sau, it is a good concept. Yes, Chi Sau is a good concept. However, when are you going to use it in a fight? How many opportunities are you going to get to use it? Not a lot. So why must you spend so much time training it. All I see is just wasted time. By the time you become a Wing Chun, FMA master, that Muay Thai guy that started his training the same time as you is already fighting in competitions and winning amateur fights.
If your master struggles against an amateur of another martial art, you should start asking questions about your master or your martial art.
12:08 Chain punch! Surprisingly, chain punching can actually work. Chain punching doesn't deal much power. All of you saying that chain punching deals damage, no it doesn't. Maybe for you it does because you've never been pressured by a Brawler type boxer. but no, chain punching is weak. What chain punching is good for though, is gaining position. Instead of seeing it as a series of punches, see it as a bunch of hammer fists. The opponent jabs, you hammer fist it away, the cross comes, you hammer fist it again, then you hammer fist your opponent. ONCE that hammer fist successfully lands, use regular old boxing and pressure your opponent with power punches.
Trapping works but not as something you just do for the sake of doing. These drills are more about developing the sense of touch, position, and angles. Trapping is meant to be the way you enter what Demetrius Johnson calls "the void," and angle off for attacks. This is what Bruce Lee was trying to get across with JKD. Trapping is essential, but it's really something that should only be happening for a fraction of a second before you enter. Also, the big reason you don't see more trapping in boxing is because it's against the rules of boxing. Look it up. But if you look at older texts you find a lot of trapping techniques shown as "dirty boxing."
Trapping might be the most misunderstood and underutilized aspect of modern MMA...
trapping and footwork are the best defense in fights with small mma gloves or bareknuckle
Like you said "SUB SYSTEMS". Both MMA COACHES Greg Nelson and Erik Paulson teach Wing Chun moves to their MMA fighters. They are both students under Dan Inosanto. Who was a student under Bruce Lee.
Fuck yeahhhhh let's go!
That was by far the worst demonstration of wing Chun I have ever seen. WC is about principles, not techniques...this dude has never done any Wing Chun style...periode😢
Agree. And it shows.
Looks a lot like Uechi ryu karate with the slap perry with the right Hand 🖐 and the left hand coming over the punching arm.
Wow, No wonder Bruce lee was such a fast striker!
Did not see this coming 👍
Izzo be lurking...😉
You ever heard of Duncan leung? He was a personal and private student of Ip Man and has some practical wing chun training you may find interesting. There is a youtube channel called ultimate martial arts academy which is one of his students
Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
i am sorry but you do not understand Wing Chun. There is the higher element of WC that requires no blocking. Good Luck!!
Agree. There are no blocks in Wing chun. Just trying to get views smh
If you're fighting someone as skilled as you and you don't need to block, you're not fighting someone as skilled as you or you're doing choreography.
@@S.N.T.247This is literally just factually incorrect.
@@hopelesslydull7588 I think i would know, bud. Have over 20 yrs of wing chun experience. There are no blocks. If you understand what it means to "block"
@@S.N.T.247 Oh, you were being weirdly obtuse. Got it. Parrying a punch with slap or forearm is a block. Catching a punch with an elbow is a block. Just because you don't call it a block for the sake of your martial arts' philosophy doesn't change what it is.
That parry and cover is uchi uke in karate
I always thought it was mawashi uke
Your footwork point is awesome. KungFu training is far Far too flat-footed. Not many learn “live leg kungfu” instead of “dead legs kungfu.” And the popular branch of Wing Chun (Ip Man lineage) really has not a lot of footwork compared to mainland Wing Chun like Yuen Kay San, Chan Wah Shun, Fukien Wing Chun or even Wing Chun County White Crane. You are absolutely right. That said though, CONTEXT is important. So the result of the premise is a massive reduction of Wing Chun though. Wing Chun is not the art of trapping. Trapping is just a single skill across all southern styles. But, There is no KungFu style that is primarily based on Striking except maybe a newer one like Yi Quan which is Western Boxing + Xing Yi. All of the cultures involved in the life cycle of KungFu - Chinese, Tibetan, Mongolian, Manchurian, their cultural martial art is Wrestling.
Hand trapping is an important Aspect, but, as can be seen in both Chi Sau and the Wooden Dummy is that it is about Grappling as a whole, not just parry / trap and strike. Wing Chun is not so different from Muay Thai / Muay Chaiya, particularly Muay Sok / Muay Plum styles, however, the roots of Muay Thai is Striking and Weapnry and the roots of Wing Chun is Grappling and Weaponry. The emphasis is different. And that also explains SOME of why there is more Shifting, than there is lots of footwork. It’s close quarters, tight confined space clinch-work more than it is “Boxing”
Now, we can also look at Sanshou / San Da, even after absorbing Boxing, Muay Thai, Sambo… still what those fighters are best known for is Kuai Jiao - “Fast Throws” which comes from Combat Shuai Jiao, the old Chinese-Mongolian-Manchu Wrestling. The golf swing leg catch takedown from Shaolin Long Fist is the most notable one. Aka in Tai Chi, Wave Hands like Clouds. Looks like some sideways blocks or parries, if you don’t know the context. But it’s actually either an arm drag, that was adapted also in modern times as a leg catch
So, no, please don’t eventually start chain punching lol. Chain punch is just a practice for the theory of replacing your hand, while moving forward. It’s not meant to be like Boxing, where you retract the hand and go into your angling. It’s meant to land something, and from that point on, apply pressure while controlling, pushing, pulling, etc. You have to think of it more like from a Private Security perspective… because that’s what it is.
Security guard or bouncer almost always you keep one hand on their chest or somewhere on their body or as a physical barrier so they can’t sucker you or try to go around you. And if they act up, then you apply pressure. You have to think self protection like that, and protecting others. Same with law enforcement. One hand forward, one hand securing the firearm or whatever on their belt. In old days it’d be a blade, or even a bag of shrapnel they would throw.
The old Gracie concept is not so different when they talk about red zone, green zone. Once they touch you, they’re trying to wrap you up and lock you down immediately. It’s just that Chinese and Mongolian Martial Arts do not like going to the ground. You goto the ground, you got stabbed through the gaps in your armor and you died. Context changes everything.
But, absolutely, blending Wing Chun and Muay Thai for modern times is an excellent idea and something I suggest to my Wing Chun friends allll the time. Both arts also have some history in Yunnan region
Let me get this straight… you’re gonna praise Wing Chun and JKD for its effectiveness to redirect your opponent and trap them; so they can’t fight you. Then knock on Kenpo 3 years ago? Did your option change? You’re blocking at the arm and then the elbow is essentially what we do in Kenpo. So they can’t turn into you or strike you with a collapsing elbow. In addition, the rhythm and drilling that is unrealistic is basically what Kenpo is about lol. I’m just confused cause Kenpo and Wing Chun are super similar in some respects. Please help me understand your distaste for Kenpo, and your love of wing chun. I know you’re a Kajukenbo black belt too. Thanks!
So yes, wing chun and kenpo are similar in the way they approach redirecting and controlling space.
They are dissimilar in that wing chun is primarily, popularily, known for hand trapping and counter punching. My critique of kenpo is that it trains 3-4-5-6 responses to a single attack, and calls these movements “options” or “ideal phase,” rather than training them individually in a vacuum. Can strikes flow together? Absolutely. Economy of motion is a real thing, but that doesn’t mean approaching all training through that lens is beneficial.
In fact, I could levy the same criticism towards wing chun, which is why in the first 30 seconds I said “they do it wrong.”
@@CombatSelfDefense
You say that you dislike kempo for having 3-4-5-6 responses to one attack when in the first demonstration you basically did what you disagreed except you called it wing chun. Which isn't true because wing chun understands you need to use one movement against one attack. I don't know about kempo, someone else could clarify.
You are only saying wing chun does it wrong because you don't do wing chun, so you don't understand wing chun so no wonder you do it wrong, thus you believe that we do it wrong.
@ surely you’re not talking about the drill where I said “this doesn’t work realistically, or done this way, it just illustrates my point?”
@@CombatSelfDefense thanks for the clarification, man! So I’d I teach Kenpo as an open book and in a “vacuum” as you describe to intermediate and advanced level students at the dojo when I was 14-18 years old. That school closed due to COVID and the instructor moving on to a different journey in life.
Now that I’m on my own I’ll incorporate teaching the ideal, what-if, and formulation stages from day one to my new students from the beginning to explore options from day one. Also the multiple movements don’t necessarily take care of one attack rather it’s just more movement for when you’re in different distances, positions, or stances, etc.
For example in BJJ: a popular sequence from full guard is go from armbar to triangle to omoplata; maybe even k-guard too if you want or if a movement fails. You just drill the sequence and can rescript, alter, rearrange, insert, or delete techniques. Yet I’m sure you know this because of your research and experience in kakukenbo and martial arts🙏💯
have you used wing chung in the street
I have for 30yrs, it works well.
I have. Ended in seconds. Not from anything as drastic as a knockout but the buy was so surprised by 3 vertical punches delivered from the clinch that bloodied his nose.
7:15
Love this channel but sorry to say that was crappy wing chun. Too clingy. It could be a lineage thing. Check out Brian Kwong in Manhattan or new jersey. You’ll see proper wing chun.
Sorry, mate, but you don't know anything about Wing Chun.
You shouldn't judge martial arts by movies or people who show individual exercises or know only the basic level, which is called Siu Lim Tao.
What you showed is wrong from the point of view of Wing Chun. In the First Application, you will never have time to make 2-3 movements in one tempo of the opponent's strike. And a person who sparres in the Wing Chun style knows this. What you showed is a preparatory exercise to do this in motion. With gaps in distance, leaving the line of attack at angles and reducing the distance.
We do not slap the opponent's hands, but affect the entire structure, for this you need to do the technique, as if through the hand into the central axis of the opponent. This allows you to affect his center of gravity and the turn of the shoulders, limiting his movements and making it difficult to go into a counterattack.
Bong sao is rarely used at a long distance, it is needed for a short, close to clinch distance(And this distance that we need to reach, where chi sao works, is our special advantage and that of all southern styles of kung fu (and it doesn’t work the way you showed =Ь)), where the whole arm can already affect the opponent's shoulder and his entire mass.
To grab the arm and strike under it, we have kao sao. To meet the opponent's fist (where you tried to use bong sao), we have lan sao and an elbow strike. And so on.
I can't show and explain everything, and I can't vouch for the nearest wing chun school where you could go and see what they do. Instead, I suggest watching how the guys from the school IWCO (International Wing Chun Organization) in Russia train.
Here are a few videos. I advise you to watch carefully and slow down, many of the videos seem chaotic, but they have logic and effectiveness.
P.S. Sorry for my bad English.
If anything, I can analyze some element and principle separately, sending examples and describing in detail, but I can't do this to describe the work of the entire style in one message.
ruclips.net/video/P3NZWs7jaJk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/RPf-dILIz_o/видео.html
ruclips.net/user/shorts6Ei_tn8YHuI
ruclips.net/video/wmzjFTLI2Dc/видео.html
ruclips.net/user/shorts1VybUGSPofw
ruclips.net/video/44_bEZxClWM/видео.html
ruclips.net/user/shortsLlKWnCT8_Ik
ruclips.net/user/shortsLN-owaECMgQ
Watched your videos. They were garbage. I wouldn't be showing people this to prove wing Chun is effective.
As someone who has done Wing Chun, what I am about to say here will wither piss off or make Wing Chun people happy.
The problem with a lot of interpretation of Wing Chun is Wing Chun is treated like a kickboxing or striking style. This is problematic, because there is very little kickboxing applicable footwork in Wing Chun.
I think, and I'm not the only one, that Wing Chun was intended originally to work in a hand fighting distance akin to what you see in Judo. As evidence for this, the opening part of Mook Yong training in Wing Chun starts with a collar tie, and the majority of the techniques on the Mook Yong happen at arm's length. Add to that a lot of techniques like Kwan Sau act as a way to free the hands or make space to set up a strike. Furthermore Wing Chun heavily used grabs and pulls to set up strikes
This would explain the lack of footwork. Wing Chun has always been sold as an infighting style, so it would make more sense for it to function better in a hand fighting distance. Think just a little step back from clinch fighting. That's probably not a great idea to fight under kickboxing rules, but it seems useful to me in a fight where an aggressive opponent is closing position.
Of course this makes it problematic trying to shoehorn Wing Chun into pure striking situations, but unfortunately due to movies people expect Wing Chun to be implemented as a striking style, when in realty it would problem do better as an infighting or dirty boxing style.
That said, there is immense value in trying to experiment and pressure test ways to use Wing Chun in a kickboxing scenario, and the ideas presented in this video are brilliant. Every fighting style can benefit from expanding its horizons. My understanding of pre 20th century Muay Thai/Muay Boran was more of a clinch fighting style with little to no outfighting used, and look at the striking juggernaut Muay Thai has become. It always pays dividends to evolve.
Sorry , wing chun, jet kunee do, aikido, systema, krav magá.....is bullshit
😂 you have no idea what you are talking about.
Tighten that up a bit, your movements are too wide, plus Wing Chun is based on simultaneous attack and defense, slap/hit at the same time, that first drill you're doing was original from Kali and some Wing Chun people adopted it into their system, your trapping should be abrupt and end an opponent quickly, don't get me wrong Kali is a great are for trapping too. You got some points they just need more refining.
Dr. Leung Ting, author of The Chinese Vagabonds - The Lin Keui. 10th Dan or Sifu was able to strike as fast and has been actually documented, filmed and measured at .09 sec/srrike. 11 strikes in one second. That's the real reason along with the trapping sticky hands that makes it so deadly and one of the best martial arts to increase striking speed.
Combined with Muy Thai, Judo/Jujitsu, Sambo, Boxing and/or 52 Strikes would almost complete a martial artists repertoire.
That is insanely fast. Can you point me to that video?
@CombatSelfDefense I believe Dr. Leung Ting was actually videotaped on some of the first combat sports and martial arts series on cable television. I'll see if I cant find the series where they actually taped him up with biometrics to his body and the punching machine to measure the speed of his punches. It was in the 1990s or early 2000s.
@@CombatSelfDefensewhen I was a kid, elder students and I traveled from New Mexico to Tucson to visit and train with WC GM Augustine Fong. Viewed this Leung Ting video and collectively laughed. It was staged and obviously sped up.
These kung-fu dorks in the comments are all experts apparently 😂
Sorry mate, we appreciate your open mindedness towards wing chun yet you neglected a lot of core concepts of wing chun.
1st example: 4 movements against 1 punch. You neglected the principle of directness.
2nd example: You keep parrying away his punches with sideways. You neglected the centerline
I can keep going and going but none of these demonstrations are valid enough to explain your point that handtrapping is not done correctly in wing chun. Many martial arts do trapping, its just that wing chun specializes in trapping, it knows how to disrupt your balance while attacking and defending safely without trading. Without formal training in wing chun, this video does not bring reliable information to not just us wing chun practitioners, but also general public who dont know wing chun as well. Furthering the delusion already created.
The problem with Wing Chun is that it's based on geometry and in the geometric sense it's correct, but the human limits, like reaction time, reflexes and coordination are not good enough to make it work. If you had a reaction time like between 0,01 - 0,05 sec then Wing Chun would be invincible, but for real humans it won't.
Beyond that people use to have bad thinking about Kung Fu. There were more than 600 Kung Fu styles in China, most of them were already lost. It's kind of absurd to think that Kung Fu doesn't work. In the past people needed to know how to fight in order to survive. What happens is that today there are many bad teachers and many bad schools, SOMETHING WAS LOST ALONG THE YEARS. I think at some point, people stop fighting/sparring and they started to just train in a more theoretical manner. For example, Muay Thay is very respect nowadays, but I have found some Muay Thay fighters with 3 years of training and they know nothing, they were really very very bad. The problem is Muay Thay? No. It's bad teacher and bad school.
Nevertheless I think Wing Chun can be a very good addition to people that already know how to fight, and then adding Wing Chun could improve one's performance.
Common misconception. Wing Chun is not intended to be a reactionary system. The purpose of these drills is to develop a sense of touch so you can anticipate the movements instead of reacting to them.
@@dx5soundlabs939 Lots of Wing Chun techniques would require too much fast reaction time, like simultaneous defense and attack, blocker punches or blocker kicks, which is a cool idea but extreme hard to perform. Actually these kind of techniques comes from sword techniques, but with swords it's a bit easier to perform. Close combat or inside fighting is very hard because in close range we dont have the reaction time fast enough to deal with the opponent punches, Wing Chun rely more on tactile sensitivity in close range but it still very hard. The weaker point of Wing Chun is human capabilities. You can watch some Wing Chun master in real fights against other style and they can perform some wing chun techniques in the beginning of the fight but as the opponent increases the attacks and combinations they cannot keep up.
You think Wing Chun’s little chain punches are going to do anything in a real fight? Please. Those fancy hand drills might look nice in a dojo, but out there, they’re useless. Muay Thai? It’s simple, brutal-an elbow, a knee, you’re done. You can play with your slaps and parries if you want, but in the end, only one of us is walking out.
So you clearly didn’t watch the video.
Chain strikes are not used that often. And most often for the final pressing and finishing. I don't know why people who study Wing Chun show them so much, we don't do that. Wing Chun at a long distance is very similar to Muay Thai, except for the lack of side punches and kicks. (They are not there because they do not fit into the motor skills that Wing Chun uses at close range in the clinch, and that is where the Wing Chun fighter strives) and also opens up in the clinch with elbows, knees, sweeps and throws. The difference is in the additional control of the limbs at close range, sacrificing side punches at a long distance. I dropped a few videos there, how Wing Chun competitions and training are held in Russia, I advise you to watch.
Chain punches can do damage but that depends on how good the structure of the individual is. At the very least what they definitely do cause an overwhelming attack that can be used to break the structure and gain advantage on an opponent and transition to boxing techniques or whatever you have.
Lol cringelord
@@KingSquirtle999 why? Have you watched the videos that I posted in another comment under this video?
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