I think another reason why Metroidvania experiences are so popular, relates to the interconnected worlds on a technical level. Namely the fact that, you as the player, are always in control of the character. Sure there might be a small loading door or elevator, but the downtime associated with world map screens is mitigated entirely. In the end, control = immersion.
@@babiluki I'm referring to direct control. Cutscenes are the most obvious example, but also something like Donkey Kong Country map screen, which only offers limited control to the player. Furthermore, these level transitions can come with long load times, which would be my third example. Any of these situations "take you out" of the experience, and alter the pacing in ways outside of the player's CONTROL. For this reason, I think the Castlevania SOTN transition room (with the two angel decorations) is a brilliant solution to maintaining player control between areas. And also, why I think Metroid Dread's egregiously long elevator/teleport station loading times hurt the game's pacing more than people realize.
Yes, I also believe that the budget is the essential pillar. As an indie developer, often you don't have the money or time for 3D: models, animations, debugging, testing... 2D lets them focus and polish. But making a 2D game to play only on a main plane (side scrolling) limits the reuse of levels and can become disapointing nowadays (games like Retro's DKCs try to compensate with huge amounts of secrets). And a top-down game limits the credibility granted by the physics of gravity (on this age of engines and real physics simulation) and makes you renounce most of the mechanics associated with the 2D perspective, its years of traditions and distillation. Top-down is mostly RPGs. Next step: since you make expansive environments in 4 directions to take advantage of two-dimensionality, why not interconnect everything? Also: indie devs are gamers, we should take mimesis into account. I hope the best for this channel! You're chosing good topics.
Thanks for your insights! Even Symphony of the Night was a budget title Konami made for PSX to cater to that market, while they did a big 3d game for the N64. So, I think, these budget titles CAN be amazing. As for my videos, my hope is to be able to deliver entertaining and informative content, with my own style. I'm constantly trying to improve in all different directions, so if things go in a direction you think is not the best, your comments definitely help.
Indie devs use this "metroidvania" formula because it is not a defined genre but a vague term you can interpret in whatver you need it to be. Just look up oficial genre charts and tell me where this metroidvania would pop up? Spoiler - it doesn't. What people now label as "metroidvnias" is a wild mix of different genres like rpgs, action adventures, raw platformers and other randomly chosen elements. And those games are easy to make. Especially those without proper slopes. The only things devs care about are labyrinth level structure, map system, some key elements you need to progress. Most games have bad upgrade systems (like Hollow Knight,a game that doesn't tell you about its rigged nail upgrade system that secretly makes enemies stronger, which leaves your spells useless on later bosses). There are more games out now labelled "metroidvania" than all legitimate side scrolling action adventures combined. That should make one think.
24:00 so much bullshit flying out of your mouth. Many games have different themed areas. Super Mario Bros.3 had different themed worlds. Mega Man has different themes for all robot master stages. As soon as graphics allowed for more details, developers started to create diverse environments. And for some areas in those side scrolling rpgs games, many are not making sense, having ice and fire regions right next to each other, or having water levels floating somewhere they should not belong. Other side scrolling adventures avoid too different areas because the developers couldn't handle it. Seen it all. And think about it. Over 3,000 recommendations when you look up metroidvania? That should tell us all what is wrong there. Think how many games the Sega Genesis, Super NES, NES, Master System, Playstation 1 etc do have ombined. And now tell me how many of all those games are action adventures. But there are over 3,000 indie metroidvanias? Bullshit.
Farming sims is not a genre that I'm personally interested in, so I never really pay attention to them, but thanks for the heads up. My slow talking is me trying to sound as clear as possible, but I'll see what I'll do about it in the future.
The history of the metroidvania term. not genre. And the history of usage of this nonsensical term started in 2001/02 when a random guy labelled Castlevania games "similar" to Super Metroid as metroidvanias, hence the GBA titles from the Castlevania franchise. No other side scrolling action adventure was meant to be called that. And it was not a genre term as such since it does not describe the games. It is just a joke term refering to "metroid like Castlevania games". So when YOU guys talk about metroidvania, what YOU say to a person like me is this: "Metroid like Castlevania like". Yeah, this! And having played many side scrolling action adventures (
The joke term is what everyone knows (if what you're saying is true). I don't see how metroidvania is not a genre descriptor, as it describes the expected mechanical elements in these types of games. You are free to use side-scrolling action adventure as a genre but nobody at the moment will know what you mean, unless you explain to them (as you did). Anyway, it's all fine and good, and my point about games being more similar to Symphony of the Night than Metroid might have been made too swiftly, so I get where you're coming from there.
Good stuff buddy
Thanks!
I think another reason why Metroidvania experiences are so popular, relates to the interconnected worlds on a technical level. Namely the fact that, you as the player, are always in control of the character. Sure there might be a small loading door or elevator, but the downtime associated with world map screens is mitigated entirely. In the end, control = immersion.
What are games where you're not in control of the character at all times? Or are you talking cutscenes?
@@babiluki I'm referring to direct control. Cutscenes are the most obvious example, but also something like Donkey Kong Country map screen, which only offers limited control to the player. Furthermore, these level transitions can come with long load times, which would be my third example. Any of these situations "take you out" of the experience, and alter the pacing in ways outside of the player's CONTROL.
For this reason, I think the Castlevania SOTN transition room (with the two angel decorations) is a brilliant solution to maintaining player control between areas. And also, why I think Metroid Dread's egregiously long elevator/teleport station loading times hurt the game's pacing more than people realize.
@@stomboyyuffie That's what I also meant in my video. THe world feels bigger and more cohesive, because you can walk between areas directly.
Yes, I also believe that the budget is the essential pillar. As an indie developer, often you don't have the money or time for 3D: models, animations, debugging, testing... 2D lets them focus and polish.
But making a 2D game to play only on a main plane (side scrolling) limits the reuse of levels and can become disapointing nowadays (games like Retro's DKCs try to compensate with huge amounts of secrets). And a top-down game limits the credibility granted by the physics of gravity (on this age of engines and real physics simulation) and makes you renounce most of the mechanics associated with the 2D perspective, its years of traditions and distillation. Top-down is mostly RPGs.
Next step: since you make expansive environments in 4 directions to take advantage of two-dimensionality, why not interconnect everything?
Also: indie devs are gamers, we should take mimesis into account.
I hope the best for this channel! You're chosing good topics.
Thanks for your insights! Even Symphony of the Night was a budget title Konami made for PSX to cater to that market, while they did a big 3d game for the N64. So, I think, these budget titles CAN be amazing.
As for my videos, my hope is to be able to deliver entertaining and informative content, with my own style. I'm constantly trying to improve in all different directions, so if things go in a direction you think is not the best, your comments definitely help.
That's a nice camera behind you! Where did you get it from? 😮
@@sahbamanouchehri1007 Albert Heijn
@@babiluki Oh I didn't know they have such stuff!!! 😵 Good to know thanks 🤗
Indie devs use this "metroidvania" formula because it is not a defined genre but a vague term you can interpret in whatver you need it to be. Just look up oficial genre charts and tell me where this metroidvania would pop up? Spoiler - it doesn't. What people now label as "metroidvnias" is a wild mix of different genres like rpgs, action adventures, raw platformers and other randomly chosen elements. And those games are easy to make. Especially those without proper slopes. The only things devs care about are labyrinth level structure, map system, some key elements you need to progress. Most games have bad upgrade systems (like Hollow Knight,a game that doesn't tell you about its rigged nail upgrade system that secretly makes enemies stronger, which leaves your spells useless on later bosses). There are more games out now labelled "metroidvania" than all legitimate side scrolling action adventures combined. That should make one think.
24:00 so much bullshit flying out of your mouth. Many games have different themed areas. Super Mario Bros.3 had different themed worlds. Mega Man has different themes for all robot master stages. As soon as graphics allowed for more details, developers started to create diverse environments. And for some areas in those side scrolling rpgs games, many are not making sense, having ice and fire regions right next to each other, or having water levels floating somewhere they should not belong. Other side scrolling adventures avoid too different areas because the developers couldn't handle it. Seen it all. And think about it. Over 3,000 recommendations when you look up metroidvania? That should tell us all what is wrong there. Think how many games the Sega Genesis, Super NES, NES, Master System, Playstation 1 etc do have ombined. And now tell me how many of all those games are action adventures. But there are over 3,000 indie metroidvanias? Bullshit.
I don't understand what you're saying.
another indie game genre that are so saturated are farming sims. btw, you talked so slow i had to watch the vid at 1.25x speed. 😅
Farming sims is not a genre that I'm personally interested in, so I never really pay attention to them, but thanks for the heads up. My slow talking is me trying to sound as clear as possible, but I'll see what I'll do about it in the future.
The history of the metroidvania term. not genre. And the history of usage of this nonsensical term started in 2001/02 when a random guy labelled Castlevania games "similar" to Super Metroid as metroidvanias, hence the GBA titles from the Castlevania franchise. No other side scrolling action adventure was meant to be called that. And it was not a genre term as such since it does not describe the games. It is just a joke term refering to "metroid like Castlevania games". So when YOU guys talk about metroidvania, what YOU say to a person like me is this: "Metroid like Castlevania like". Yeah, this! And having played many side scrolling action adventures (
☝️🤓
The joke term is what everyone knows (if what you're saying is true). I don't see how metroidvania is not a genre descriptor, as it describes the expected mechanical elements in these types of games. You are free to use side-scrolling action adventure as a genre but nobody at the moment will know what you mean, unless you explain to them (as you did).
Anyway, it's all fine and good, and my point about games being more similar to Symphony of the Night than Metroid might have been made too swiftly, so I get where you're coming from there.