Eve Online Guide to Mining Barges Yields, Tanks and Roles. Inc Know You Enemy: How Ganks Work
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- In this episode we look at the three Tech 1 Mining Barges, The Retriever, Covetor and Procurer and compare their yields tanks and roles so you can decide which is best for you.
We go through what you can do to stay safer whilst mining using the D scan, picking a good location and basic awareness.
In the 'Know Your Enemy' section we examine the mechanics of a ganks and how safe you may or may not be depending on security status of the system and your ship and fit.
Alpha's cannot use barges (way too farmable) so a subscribed Omega account is required.
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Instead of bookmarking asteroids, I tend make a single bookmark about 200km from the asteroids. You can warp from there to any asteroid, and back to the bookmark, for warping around the belt.
That's gold. Thanks!
The first ship I was ever ganked in was a Retriever. I stayed away from them ever since. Thanks for the content. I look forward to it.
Well a Procurer is certainly the safer option by far xD Glad you enjoy the channel :)
Lol u ganked urself pal
Listening while mining. Very informative. Subbed
The Procurer is the only barge that can survive suicide ganks, triglavian rats, be a good bait ship, and is a good meme barge.
10/10 would fly again
I am saving baiting for a special episode :)
definitely cannot mine in one in a triglavian invasion system. Just had a roaming group warp in on me with 2 vedmaks and 6 demavaks...good thing these roaming fleets don't have scrams or i'd have been dead
Loved this, the comparison of the 3 ships was super helpful. Nice job!
Thankyou mate! xD
Great video, answered a ton of my questions as I just came back after a decade break.
Thanks Paul and welcome back! :)
As a new player i LOVE this video!
Watching this nearly a year later. "I hope the lockdown isn't going to last too much longer"
"It's just 3 weeks to flatten the curve guys"
laughs in american
The best tank for a miner: a procurer. That's it. If you look at the raw ehp of one you'll see it has more than twice the ehp of the other barges, fit it with tank and its more cost intensive for the gankers to bring you down.
Don't like the procurer? here's the best tank then: d-scan, adding gankers as negative standing and aligning to warp away the moment you see something bad.
Alternatively, get some friends to mine with, chat a bit and one that has a miners best lover, the Orca. A Mining Op that has taken into account possible combat and is prepared will definitely be able to scare them away or at the very least disrupt them long enough so they won't manage to kill a single miner.
No matter how much you try to tank a retriever or covetor, depending where it is, chances are it will die, you shouldn't rely entirely on DPS to calculate how long it would take the catalyst to die
I made a tanky retriever with about 18kehp overall, bit more resists on thermal and kinetic, and was feeling cocky and wanted to test its fit, so I let this one ganker come on purpose, it was a typical T2 catalyst that has about 800-900 dps on a 0.6 system. CONCORD arrives in 15 seconds on that system and according to calculations it would've taken the catalyst to knock me down in about 20 seconds. I survived with 5% hull, one more hit and I would be dead. So, calculations can Help determine an estimate, but it will never be accurate.
Turrets have an application damage based on their optimal range that multiplies their alpha damage, so as a target that sits still you'll be easy to approach and easy to land hits on, you might just be unlucky enough to see him deal triple the alpha damage once on you. Even if you move around you're still slow, even more if the ganker decides to bring a web for some reason.
If you fly a barge, try tanking it above 18k, yes it will mean less output but you'll save on some cash and the gankers would most likely have to throw one more catalyst just to knock ya down but at least if you go afk you'll have a chance to coming back alive on hull hp.
If you fly an exhummer I recommend you do not go afk flying that thing. Yes, mining can be booooring and teeedious if you fly solo and tanking a exhummer is made a bit easier with more high slots, but loosing 300mil worth of ship sounds hella punishing, a barge at least pays for itself faster due to lower cost and it will definitely not attract as many catalysts as a exhummer would. This also applies to ANY barges if you fly bling fits with the ORE miners, by putting those things on you just revealed the worst enemy of a miner: Greed.
And for the love of god don't bother with shield boosters, they do nothing for you. The ehp per second you get on a medium shield booster is not worth it, try shoving a hardener instead and overheat it, that will give ya more ehp through the whole fight till CONCORD arrives.
Most importantly: insure your ship. yeah it costs to do that, but you get more money back when it blows up, it will one day anyway, never say never, they will get you eventually, this is EVE after all.
Wow a huge comment! You transcribed the narration for me :) I think the only thing you mention that I didn't cover in the vid are t2 barges and personally I think they are in no way worth the extra isk sunk in them and the risk that represents for relatively small increases in yield and protection. I see them more as the 'Miners Bling' since I guess some don't have much else to spend their ISK on. The other thing to take into account when trying the maths is that dps is not actually applied 'per second' since the weapons cycle, so how many shots/damage you get in a given amount of time will not match a simple dsp x seconds calculation.
@@daddex9222 Yeah exactly, but despite that the turret mechanics throw any calculations off the window as a pure "minimal prediction". I do agree that exhummers Are indeed bling, which is why I give the emphasis to Never. Afk. On. These. Gotta go to the toilet? Dock. Need a drink? Dock. They can be worth if you treat it with respect but they definitely take their sweet time to pay back. Its still a nice step up for the greedier ones, might as well fly an Exhummer if you gonna fit a retriever with Ore miners and a shield booster right?
Hulks are arguably the safest of the bunch purely because they are more commonly seen near Orcas. Ganker comes around? Hide it in the Orca. Simple. But that won't stop gankers from trying their luck if they think the hulk/orca pilot is a multiboxer that got distracted, they WILL come to try and score the kill.
Thanks for the reply btw, didn't mention on the first comment but the video was nice and informative in a lot of stuff. Good to see fellow miners taking care of one another.
Its about time that someone do a video about mining comparison
Covetor seems like it'd be a good ship in a mining fleet that has industrials ferrying the ores between a couple MTUs and NPC stations
That's pretty much what they're used for.
15:33 Thanx for Screenshot, love you and numbers
Thank you so much for making these videos. You have made my gameplay very enjoyable and I've taken risks, not always successful because I watched you boldly take on New Eden in a Heron. Thanks Dex, from Gammel with love, fly safe.
Something to note about the Covetor is because it has 50mbit bandwidth, it is the only T1 barge that can fly an ice harvesting drone.
Thanks Jake :) And I guess regular mining drones too...?
@@daddex9222 Yeah regular mining drones are the same size as smalls, so any barge can bring a full fleet of them along (at the cost of defensive drones in a retreiver). But since ice is BIG you can only field 1 ice drone on a covetor / orca.
@@Jmonskyof course, I forgot regular mining drones are 'light' sized, cheers. Mad drop on that Iteron BTW, why was he even moving that, let alone in a big slow truck!!?? xD
@@daddex9222 I have no idea what he was doing, he warped to the Ane gate at 200 then to Creo at 0, landed outside the ring and couldn't dock fast enough. Took me a good 5 minutes to find what was actually valuable. Cause I saw 1.5 bil kill, and was like .....this is all junk what the heck is worth this much.... Then I realized that it wasn't a facial augmentation XD
Excellent video....Procurers all the way if you want to survive ganks, Exped Frigs if you want to survive in WHs--the 3 sec warpouts are lovely.
Adding a damage control system to that Procurer fit would reduce mining yield, but it guarantees that you will survive cost effective highsec gank attempts. Even CODE largely ignores Procurers for that reason.
Yes that would make it a little tougher, and miners should consider compromising yield for safety. It will be interesting to see how they do if they venture into low sec after the mining changes. First time I mined in low sec with a Proc I put a warp stabiliser on it. When a drake came to attack me I flew away! :) AND the Drake pilot gave me 30mil as a prize for being sensible xD
Nice breakdown and presentation, thanks for the analysis!
Thanks Mike o7 xD
Concise and to the point. Much appreciate it.
thank you for destroying my ears in another amazing video! liked and subbed.
I also like to use the Strip Miner I along with the Mining Laser Upgrade II. You get a nice boost from the Upgrade II without worrying about the cristal type. At least if you are like me and just pick any rock available, going from one end of the belt and eating all the rocks till the other end, or be selective about the density of the rocks (densier first, whatever their type)).
I remember a few years back I'd fit a retriever with a higgs anchor and take it into WH space to mine Arkanor and shit. The higgs anchor made it where I could align to a safe spot and stay within range of the asteroid the entire time I'm mining it until my hold filled up. It was great.
I feel like not enough miners know about that; It's perfectly valid in high sec as well when you are not afk anyways and want to protect against gankers
Great mate this is the same as me and returning from quite a while ago, great advice
Thanks Simon! Welcome back, have fun!
Thanks for this video. It was excellent.
When I first got into this game last week I was unsure what rolls I would do. Turns out mining ended up being my primary way I’m playing the game.
amazing video -- thank you sir!
i like the breakdown.
Your "time to die" calculations do not take into consideration the shield resists. Add another Catalyst.
I could only give examples, as there are so many variables in skills and fits involved IRL. Simulated fit should add resists into EHP figure, it goes up from basic fit screen?
Eve has changed so much! I've recently renewed my subscription (last time played in 2011) and I noticed that nobody uses a Hulk anymore. I also see people using Orcas to mine. I'm confused!
Oh yes, there is a mining frigate you have never seen too then XD Things have changed a lot since you were on, Orca's are much more common T2 barges in high sec can be a liability due to gankers and even the Triglavian NPCs will aggress on any miner they find if they get the chance, they take down orca's and even Rattlesnakes with their gate camps and roaming fleets.
Same here, got back after 7 years, Hulk is nowhere around, dont know what happened with Orca, im so bloody confused.
Great video!
My covetor has a slightly different setup. For my rigs I use one "Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II" a "Medium Auxiillary Thrusters II" and a "Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I" I use 2 x " Strip Miner I" in my high slot, 1x "Survey Scanner II" and an empty mid slot, and 2 x "Mining Laser Upgrade II" and 1 x "Mining Laser Upgrade I" in my low slots. For my drone bay I use five "Mining Drone I" and 3 x "Integrated Hornets, and 2 x Caldai Navy Hornets.
single ganker in catalyst is not always a sure win on a barge (i mean procurer no way, covertor should pop everytime) but retriever can be a little more tanky also. And it happens thats the barge you wanna gank is also in fleet with some shield boost. I mine daily on 0.5, mostly afk with procurer, and when i want intense mining i go orca+boost+covetor, and even then gankers not always win ;D .. Also , dont just stay face to face with an asteroids, its a good idea to orbit like 5K because antimatter is very low range and not supa tracking. Surely can make you survive a gank
You're right, I wouldn't expect a single Cat to take out a Retriever. And absolutely fleet mining should be the safest mining
I mined for years until I realized how well the Level 4 security missions pay. Mission pay, bounties and the best thing? Loot. If you're new, do mining until your skills are up enough for a rattlesnake and a full t2 build then do missions. I have loot boxes in my home station for everything. Insignias, equipment, salvage and what I call 'other' and they all have billions of ISK in loot. I sell everything off once a month. Billions in ISK from a month of running level 4s + Well over a billion isk in bounties and then another 200-350m isk in mission payouts. Do what makes you happy but keep in mind it takes a couple days for 1m M3 in Veldspar ore and that's less than 300m ISK. That's if you're mining all day every day.
Thanks John, that is good advice, I think all players should explore other elements of the game and they will usually be better off for it, helps prevent the Eve burnout too xD I will say that is a very high end build for level 4, something to aspire too no doubt, but a 'cheap' raven can cope even if the isk per hour is lower, not a bad, pretty safe way to get that first Rattle though :) I may use an alt to get an alpha raven'praxis into a lvl 4 and see what happens … as you may know I like to show how low the entry level to many activities actually is, so you can get to the bling faster !
@@daddex9222 Oh yeah definitely. Rattlesnake is overkill for level 4s. I ran them with a Raven for a while but I wanted something that could churn the missions out like they were butter lol. Your videos are great man. I enjoy the depth you go into to show off certain aspects of the game itself and the ships. Could you do a really optimized Dominix build for missions? Or maybe show off a good Raven, Rattlesnake and Dominix?
Excellent thx so much.
There have been a few tweaks since that vid on the barges, better yields and more tank basically ruclips.net/video/3vSKGdpRG1Q/видео.html
Watching this after losing my porpoise and I just bought today and I am downgrading to barges but in a way it's kinda a upgrade
I think the porpoise is great as a low sec fleet booster as it is way easier to keep safe than an Orca, but they are not great solo. xD
@@daddex9222 welp I learned that real quick I lost an orca in high as well IGN Undead rabbit( if u want to check)
all the barges can field 5 mining drones. They take up the same bandwidth and drone hold space as light drones. The asteroid "dying" effect is about a year old. They used to just dissappear.
18:42 Asteroid dying effect
As long as I'm getting popped in my Venture, no need to buy a retriever...
If you're getting popped in a venture you're doing something wrong.
No need to ever buy ret lol
watching this video kinda late, wow those prices are about half!
How in sweet Jesus did you open multiple information windows?
shift click, or your can set it in options :)
@@daddex9222 TY!
you can right click and remove wrecks in your overview without opening settings...
yes you can right click and remove them and anything else! xD
I have found that in fleet moon mining, pre nerf, I had to drop 1 shield for a prop mod in the Procurer, just to even move. With 30+ of us, I haven't found any problems as of yet. CODE only seem to get the Ventures and Retrievers in our fleets out of Audaerne, since Concord arrives super fast.
@@chashopkins6667 I do that to get back and forth to my spots after dropping. I meant in belt movement from rock to rock, after 1 is depleted. Sometimes they are 60 to 80 km away, and that's a loooong flight, unmodded. That, or chasing after your Orca booster when he runs off.
If I wasn't in fleet, and out on belts, I would definitely have the shield replaced.
I liked this video overall outside of the high brightness. Your voice is pleasing and you're clear with your words. Your information is well presented and researched.
I just started playing again yesterday after a 4+ year break. I've been reading the forums and watching videos to get a grip on what's changed. It seems ganking hasn't really changed.
All of my accounts have +22m SP gank alts on them. When I was last playing and ganking I used t2 talos 95% of the time for the big HP ganks (t2 catalyst for the small fries like ret/cov/etc). There were some scenarios where the timing would allow for one more strike by a tornado before being jammed. in those few scenarios the nado would end up outputting a little more overall damage than a talos.
So what has changed to put Nados over the top?
When I quit there were a couple multiboxers using bombers to gank in highsec. Is that no longer a thing?
nice guide ..... still i will mine in my Orca :P ( i'm carber) fly safe and don't get podded o7
Thanks!, did you see what we get upto in our Orca?
Great film thanks
Now that the Triglavians pay you a visit, and not to mention pirate forward operating bases in system now, and bring on the nerfs for resistances, how is it effecting you? I go find another system when I see pirate miners or their support ships in the area. I try to avoid the Trigs by warping to the end of belts away from the beacons.
If there is a pesky FOB we would kill it, Myrmidons will do ( we killed one in a 0.5 last month), you have to plan and manage it well or the aggro will escalate a lot, biggest mistake people make is using battleships, it just escalates the fight/response hugely, and you have to keep any related miner response fleet busy elsewhere or they will join in too. Trigs, avoiding them is good, or can take out a combat ship and clear them (good salvage). I may not have mentioned it explicitly in this vid but never stay near the warp in point on a belt even just while ratting.. more time for you to react / think if any kind of unwelcome company joins you xD
In null sec space the procurer is the best t1 ship even fit with t2 rigs and shields it can run a medium t2 shield booster if set right. Also handy later on make you insure your ships and if possible keep a few spares plus keep eye out in local for reds or gankers that might want you. But most part never as the man says don't go afk. Away from your computer dock it up asap. o7 o/
Sound advice Shaul Thanks! xD
Just bought a Coveter. And now I'm scared. Haha
Me too lol. That's why i always mine with my porpoise and orca corpmates
But the covetor yield is nothing to laugh at. Mining go brrrr.
intro volume is higher then youre voice audio. love ur vids even tho :)
I mine in a 0.5 system and currently being terrorised by a ganking char with 4 or 5 alts, all in cats. I was using macks but after your video switching to T2 fit procurers. In the sim fitting screen I can see that ehp is 84k but switching out I lose 20k. No amount of swearing can resolve the reasons why, I'm pretty much L5 in skillset so is there a bugged fitting screen? Anyone?
Used to be in a corp called something Bloodminers? Cant really rememeber, many years ago. We were out in -0.8 or something like that, and it was only Procurers. Orehold doesnt matter much if its an organized mining corp. Those videos makes me want to go back but....
Blood for the bloodgod. That rings a bell.
i only mining in mission if is possible and completely avoiding asteroid belts
if you can make a video on endurance pls. how to get its maximum output not only ice if possible in ore mining . thanks.
Great suggestion Nobel, I am planning a similar vid for the Endurance and Prospect soon xD
@@daddex9222 reason why i asked, i like those 2 Expedition frigs, but as prospect working nice for gas mining but endurance where has better ore mining yield also ore capacity of 15k, but only one slot for mining lasers or ice mining lasers. fitting that ship a bit complected :D
Have you heard of battleship mining for Alpha characters?
Yes, and i may build one out of cruiosity to see how it works;) In the days before the Venture I used to mine in an Osprey before I could fly a barge :)
Praxis has the biggest cargo hold. Lol
thump up :)))
A pity you didn't account for the mining drones in there... That extra ore they bring may not be much, but should not be ignored if one seeks the best possible numbers.
I was trying to explain the roles and keep the comparison between the barges as simple as possible. Once you throw drones in there are more variables in skill /budget etc I didn't want to complicate this with as I said. But yes for max yield use drone too when you can! :)
Dad Dex uhm... I see your point o/
Will you consider make a future video for a more "end game" scenario for miners?
I mean, the point where ainer tends to a more prevalent use of the Exhummers, on top of access to the orca and the so hated/loved Rorqual? O.o
@@MRx36000 Yes, and don't forget the Porpoise! :) I love them as they give a good boost much cheaper than the orca's, better in rougher places :)
Dad Dex ohhh true, I completely forgot the ship for the toughest seas lol
ah good old inflation, they're like closer to 45 mil now
If you are getting ganked and you fight back, does CONCORD attack you as well?
No, so long as you do not shot before they do it is fine. Some shoot back as soon as another player locks them, this is a mistake and they will get concorded as locking is not 'aggression' as far as the cops are concerned.
If your going to use words like GANK, please give a definition. A little help on the acronyms will help.
Wow, you've got a hell of a lot of brightness up here.
Retriever it's white lol
No drones T1 with a oméga skill !
No.
The first skill for drones to T2 and Next for the ship.
I didn't fly or show any T1 drones at all? But t2 are better than t1 for sure. Ship looks yellow to me, or do you mean the simulated fits which are always white?
@@daddex9222 No, what I meant was that there's no point in being omega if you don't have the basic skills for ships and equipment. This is the drones we need to get to before the mining barge.
I speak about Real retriever in this vidéo it's not in the simulation
@@watchingwolf8092 T1 drones will keep hi sec belt rats at bay, even a Venture can with 2, or just ignore the rats and speed tank them til it is full. I wouldn't go any where they may need to face tougher rats or players with just them though. And yes as a general point flying a ship before you have the skills / knowledge to fit it adequately is a mistake often made, I see so many killmails full of cpu and powergrid boosts instead of tank/dps.. we caught this guy hacking zkillboard.com/kill/75655602/
@@daddex9222 ok
Well. Got my retriever blown up today just when I wanted to fly back.
Now I know that a retriever will never be able to survive a high sec attack and I will never touch that filth again. For a solo like me? Seems like the procure is the way to go when I wanna upgrade from a venture
Hey MadHuntr, are you in a Corp? I have a Corp, planets, and resources. Just looking for a team to play with. Only me and two others. I have free equipment for you to use. The corp is THE BRACKETS. I'm Izzy Pounds. Got my Astrahus blown up smh. I know the feeling.
I saw a group of retrievers with a hauler and some combat ships nearby and it reminded me of this post where someone found an unusual tactic to avoid ganks (the poster was not the guy who found an unusual solution, his client was) www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2s3k4w/what_do_mercenary_corps_actually_do/cnm1156?context=3
Dammit, I just bought a covetor 🤦♂️
What happened to the hulk?
It is still here, it is a tech 2 barge there are the teach one bunch. They basically have the same role as the Covetor, fleet ops.
@@daddex9222 ah, not played eve in like 3 or so years forgotten a lot.aiming for new pc snd get back into it by Christmas
Has the Procurer been nerfed, or am I missing (armor/defense) skills? I'm only looking at 35075 ehp, that's a far cry from 57000 ....
Not sure if the procurer itself was nerfed, but I'm pretty sure shield hardeners did get weakened a bit
I get like 50 to 60.000 Ehp whit a large shield extender and 3 tech II shield hardenders and a tech II damage control and shield rigs
Procurer is only one that can survive. totally agree, since I kill so many miners :). Dad Dex has no clue and should not be telling you a Retriever is ok as long as you're not afk. You can be there and completely aware and I can still easily take you out.
Inflation is a bitch
my first mining barge was the Mackinaw great mining ship not sure why you left that out of the barge line up ? as for speed in the fields put a warp-drive engine mine will travel at 256 in the fields you have 4 mid slots the ore hold is 35000 also rigs need a warp core stabilizer to help prevent a WSO attack also one on the low power without that you are dead in space.
www.eveworkbench.com/fitting/search?q=mackinaw
Never got the ganking side, so you are isk positive on a killboard that means nothing? can't buy food on the table for that :) then i don't care much for the pvp in the game so guess if you are into that zkill is your life.
I don't really get it myself, as it is dull and easy. I show stuff in the vid's to demonstrate possibilities, and show /warn players what is possible. This particular method we have only used against guys we have reason to mess with, so that isn't ganking :) I will say that without suicide gankers afk mining would be too easy and that would be good for no one since it would reduce the value of all ore mined. Don't afk mine and you are very unlikely to be a gank victim. xD
@@daddex9222 I admit it can be fun to avoid pvp, i was down in the delve system where fighting was going on FWST-8 close to 6500 people in system, took me over 10 minutes in warp tunnel to enter system, then i got disconnected and another 10 min to get back in.
Was sitting uncloaked and in a bubble in 10% TiDi, but managed to get away :)
its youtube 2020, can't you put timestamps / block in your video so that we can find what part we are looking for?
How to know this video istn old as fuck? REd dots xD
if you search for a topic and put in the current year it will take the published date into account. I know what you mean though there are many out of date vids out there, I am working on changing that xD
Don’t buy a covetor if your a solo miner!
Wise words indeed :)
why is the quality so bad
Bad in what way?. I do these kind of videos so that the on screen info is easier to read, the prettiness isn't a priority tbh. The barges are filthy, so look pretty drab xD
obnoxiously loud intro music needs to go
It seems to be a Marmite thing, some don't like it at all, others say it is the best intro tune they have heard on YT. xD
Please clean your ships sir they are a bit dirty....
But with so much Debris in Sey' these days it is hard to keep up xD
College money huh
? Didn't need money when I went to college, all paid for :)
you only spoke about lv 1 barges I'm after a video on lv 2 barges if anyone knows of one