Yeah one of the problems with "learning" trad at Arapiles here in Aus is that the rock there is bomber, and then many other places you go it's not, so a risk of false confidence.
Pay attention - the damage at 5:15 sheared the corner off there, because it was in camming mode, webbing running across the flat back area. The failures suggest the newer models are using a more brittle alloy than the soft early Lowe versions, which just deformed and became welded into cracks, or sheared out. The new, pointier tip fits into smaller rugosities, to initiate camming, but that magnifies the pressure to where it even broke the granite; the original design was a broader edge that fit less flared cracks, but spread the contact more. Interesting to see how "little things" like webbing against rock becomes the weakest spot. Overall encouraging tests at least as strong as the mfg spec, when pull is straight, rock is strong, etc.
still think the pointier tooth might be a better design as it keys into the rock better and still out preforms it’s ratings with good placement. you’re more likely to get complete failures with way lower forces if the camming isn’t initiated properly or if the cam wiggles out of place.
Tricams are fucking amazing. I seriously doubt myself ever time I leave the ground without them. They just notoriously work in the funkiest placements where almost nothing else would
@@jimcarlson6219 Indeed. I can't count the number of placements that I would rather trust a tricam in over almost any other gear. Limestone pockets, check. Vesicles in basalt and other igneous rock, check. Odd metamorphic pockets, cracks, and flares, heck yeah. ID, MT, and the rest of the PNW they are almost always on my rack.
in the mid 70s i worked at rei. in the climbing dept. I had started climbing in the early 60s and had been part of the gear movement of starting with soft steel pitons on to cromoly pins and then slung machine nuts and small pebbles. Finally to stoppers and hexs. Out hardware buyer/engineer took a bunch of hardware to the Icycle canyon/levanworth area with a hydrolic jack and did a bunch of testing of placements and hardware. I remember the results as not very interesting (?) But the issue of the slings touching the rock under load were very concerning. I no longer climb but I would like to see more testing of slings in contact with the rock.
This may be the most scientific channel on RUclips. Plenty of experiment channels out there, but nearly all of them are retreading known experiments. This is on of the ver few doing raw testing not just copying or taking known experiments to extremes for the lols. Hats off to y'all.
A bit of math from the pulley coming out: The upper limit of force multiplication is 2x (Rope doing a bend) If we assume 90° we get a force multiplication of square root of 2, 22.15kn 100° would give us 20.13kn 120° would give us an outward pull of 1x, 15.66kn and all larger angles multiply the force less than 1x. 140° would give us an outward force of 10.71kn I'm guessing that the angle at the pulley got a little tighter when you pulled on it compared to when it was under less pull.
I’ve caught two leader falls, both were on black tricams. I cleaned both of them, one of them requiring some fuss These things are awesome. They fit in shallow, narrow cracks you’d never get a cam or nut in
A handful of tricams, black thru blue, weighs the same as a #2 camalot and cover tips to full hands. Aside from the nuanced way they fit pods and pockets, they are way useful instead of cams to build belays on multi pitch climbs. Do not leave the ground without them.
How "difficult" are they to place? The sling seems more wobbly than the wiring on a cam, so I was wondering if they’re easy to slide into a crack I have a little experience with trad climbing (there are just no cracks in the rock here) and the cams I practiced with were nice and easy to place due to the metal wires, but these look nice and the nut function could give you more more options placing them, securing a multi pitch anchor against flipping upwards. (Sorry if my English translation sounds weird)
@@vfnt The new ones are triple sewn to make them stiffer and easier to place as compared to the originals... which are the ones you see taped up to add stiffness to the sling. There is a slight difference in the head shape between the OG pink and the new school ones. Best to have both lol.
@@vfnt they're not as easy as cams to place. But in horizontal cracks, since they are made of sling, it allow them to take a load without a permanent deformation. I usually place them with my index and major finger directly on the metal part. Hope i could help.
@@gabarsenault5924 Thank you for your quick answer. The tip to place them will be useful. And thank you for mentioning the deformation of regular cams, I would not have thought of that. Will 100% take a closer look at them. Have a great day!
For padding the scale and keeping the screen visible I would recommend self fusing silicone tape, also referred to as fusion tape or f4 tape. Self adhering and fuses into a solid block of silicone rubber. Originally made for wrapping pipes in aircraft I tend to use it a lot for making handles
From kuoba right? I've been using them too. They fit in all sorts of funky spots the camp ones don't work in. Not 100% on using them in passive mode though.
A really good and cheap way to protect your line scale from destruction would be to cut the bottom out of a 32oz nalgene water bottle (If it would fit…) or even just a 2 L Coke bottle if you need a bigger container; and stick the sling through the opening at the top so it could connect to the piece of protection while leaving the line scale inside the bottle and letting your rope connect to the other end of the line scale through the cut off bottom of the bottle. That way when all hell breaks loose the bottles frame will protect it and let it slam into the rock but you can still see the scale through the clear bottle. I know it sounds ghetto but it works.
I'm sure someone on hear has a 3d printer that could print you a cover for the load cell. Probably print in tpu and actually could add thin ridge's all over than can bend to absorb impacts.
You shouldn't ever have much more than body weight on those rigs, maybe up to 2Kn. If you do you're doing it wrong! (So use a chest harness, if you don't already). And your fall factor should be tiny due to the amount of rope out and distance fallen.
I am deathly afraid of heights but I love to skydive and go on the biggest roller coasters in the United States. But I would never climb anything more than a ladder to get on my roof. And I am fascinated with your channel been watching for like 2 days its not something I'd ever do but it's got me hooked on watching it.
Just started watching our vids, awesome work. I notice a lot of the pulls involve (real world) situations where slings are pulled around corners. Would be interested to see some tests pulling various slings around angled rocks and comparing force on rope side compared to the anchor side, plus the effect on breaking force on sling compared to theoretical. No point having bomber placement if sling pulling against a flint arete...
I've taken a few bomber falls onto pink tri-cams in the Gunks. And a tri-cam saved me a copperhead placement on the Prow on the Column (6th pitch). I love them. I think the math on the forces on the bolt is 15.66kN/cos(100 degrees) = 18.16kN. However, I was in a statics & dynamics course in 1981; this could be way wrong :)
Isn't it that there are two vectors both with a magnitude of 15.66 pulling in different directions with an angle of 100 between them?... So x = 15.66 + 15.66*cos(100) = 12.94 and y = 15.66*sin(100) = 15.42. Then use Pythagorean to combine the component vectors: sqrt(12.94^2+15.42^2) = 20.13kN Or you can use the double cosine of half the angle, since we are simply taking the bisector of two equal magnitude vectors as B G mentioned. We get the same 15.66*2*cos(50) = 20.13kN.
I dug this episode, I just bought some tricams and have started using them, nice to see they can work, interesting about the redirect vs. rubbing against the rock I assumed but interesting to see.
Interesting video; thanks for making the effort of testing and sharing your results. While some may feel compelled to challenge details of the math, etc., at least you've done the work in a realistic setting (real rock, real placements) that gets anyone interested in knowing almost the "whole way" to understanding how these are likely to perform in similar situations.
The thing with wide angles and loading is that a relatively small load deflecting the line of pull can generate a relatively large load along the two strands. Your dynamometer was measuring the load on one of the strands, so, it was getting the "big number" - the load on the redirect that popped would have been relatively small. If, on the other hand, the angle had been very narrow, it would have been a higher load on the redirect than on the single strand, up to double, if the angle were very small. Think about what it looks like when you make a 2-to-1 pulley system, like the one on slacksnap ... it's like your redirect, but with a very narrow angle. Widening the angle makes a 2-to-1 pulley system pull less, not more. The takeaway is that the rock your redirect was bolted too appears to have failed under a relatively low load.
A set of tri cams was going to be my next goal to buy before I damaged my back and had to hang up the climbing rack. Thinking about dusting off the rack and replacing the soft stuff so I can get my daughter climbing soon, which should be awesome. She basically gets a belay bunny and all the climbing routes she can handle 😊
Dude, start climbing again. I've no right femoral nerve, I have a 3 level cervical fusion (C4-C7), went through a year of cancer in 2021, and am just generally worn out at age 69. I still get out climbing 2-3 times a week. Still get up the occasional 12. I've been in a fighting retreat for 20 years, actually learning to climb better as my physicality has diminished. And I climb with my younger (34) daughter when she's in town.
the force on the redirect maxes out at 2x and since the angle under 60 its less the the full force essentially use the multiplication factor from bridle forces as a division factor
All hail tricams! I have a test request which has very little/no information out there - Sometimes when you place a nut, the carabiner you clip to it runs over a horrible edge (and you've shown those carabiners breaking at low loads!), so sometimes we loop something soft like a sling directly through the wire loop and clip that. I imagine under any load that would really pinch down and cut the sling (much like the BD thumb loops did without their special doubled-over sling), so would be super enlightening to me (and I'm sure others) to see what kind of force cuts: ~10mm dyneema sling, ~16mm nylon sling, something like 7mm cord looped through, and anything else you can think of under that condition. I would love to know which is best to keep me alive!
Just wondering tricams placed the other way round would be better. Ie the bend radius of the sling not being as sharp (ie the sling nor being smooshed against the rock) ? That's way the instructions say to place them from what I remember ?
I did the math and the bolt likely reached a peak force of 20.6k peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. That's factoring a margin of error of a couple hundred turkey clubs.
Did the rock break off in the one test where the tricam came out? Am I the only one worried about that? The placement seemed just fine
3 года назад+4
Thanks for the great content! I would be very interested in you trying to break some trees - I think it would be interesting to know what you can expect from different trees in different situations. My assumption is that any significant (~1ft in diameter) tree is super good enough, but it would be great to *know*.
I'm pretty sure the strength of a tree as an anchor depends on the root structure and soil conditions. If you could standardize the soil conditions then you might be able to compare the holding power of the root structures of different tree species.
In situations where the tree is growing in rock, it's very difficult to say, depends heavily on how it's rooted. If you are slinging it close to the ground, 12" and up on a living, non-rotting tree is definitely super fine on the wood side, the big question is in the root system. Would not recommend slinging a tree much higher than a couple feet unless you are capable of assessing root conditions, tree species and health, etc. You could always take a TRAQ course, but that's kind of excessive for this. Tree species also has a lot to do with it, in good soil, with a line at the top, you can break a 1/2" double braid rigging line before something like a live oak would uproot or break, whereas a sand pine in the same soil would be likely to uproot, and something like chinaberry or popcorn would absolutely just snap first. Much like with rock, I say trust the rigging, don't trust the rigging points.
I don't place these (ever?) but I think I remember reading that the retaining pin that the webbing connects to can get damaged eventually. I was wondering if any of the retaining pins got bent on these during the tests? I think I remember reading that the distance the retaining pin sticks out on each side should be equal, and if it's not equal, the pin is bent and weakened.
I did your math assuming a 135 degree angle, and got a force of 11.48 kN in the direction parallel to the bolt, i.e. the bolt with the pulley attached got pulled straight out of the rock by a 11.48 kN force. Do you think that could bend your bolt hanger like that? I just added together the two components parallel to the bolt.
If your angle was about 80 degrees off a straight pull (100 degree inside angle on the rope), and your force was 15.66kN, then the resultant force on the bolt that blew up the rock was only about 20.13kN. If that angle went to 90 degrees then the resultant force is about 22.15kN. It seems that the bolt may have been in bad rock.
My biggest note is all the placements could be improved a bit. Would be interesting to see you retest with better placements from someone who uses tricams more. Great job making these videos! Is that static line in your pulley system?
If you think about it though, sub par placement means nothing if the nose or sling breaks before the cam comes out of the rock. And these forces are more inline of what you'd get when placing them in the real world
What altitude are you at? Pretty sure chemically weathered rock breaks easier than physically weathered. Alabama Hills versus 10,000 feet up Mt. Whitney. That could be a test, granite at 2000 feet, 6000 feet and 12000 feet with the same gear and nearly identical crack widths and placements.
I suspect that mineral composition is going to give you more variables than weathering but between the two you have thousands of micro differences in rock that we would call granite. -Bobby
The pinky rated at 9Kn active and 7Kn passive, and if I understand through the mal-function, there was a exceed rated reading of 11Kn.. Question: At knowing that the the max rating is 9Kn, for an active placement, would you whip?
I have fallen on the pink tricam (F@ck all damage to it), here at Arapiles we have a lot weird little finger pockets nothing else will fit in but a tricam .... a bit of a bitch to get out, but that's the 2nd's problem
I caught a dude taking a whip on the smallest Z4 there is that was permanently fused in the rock and rusted. It held. I think it's got more to do with placement than anything else.
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
"Trust the gear, don't trust the rock" is a very good quote ... maybe put that on a t-shirt ;)
I would buy that shirt.
Yeah one of the problems with "learning" trad at Arapiles here in Aus is that the rock there is bomber, and then many other places you go it's not, so a risk of false confidence.
Pay attention - the damage at 5:15 sheared the corner off there, because it was in camming mode, webbing running across the flat back area. The failures suggest the newer models are using a more brittle alloy than the soft early Lowe versions, which just deformed and became welded into cracks, or sheared out. The new, pointier tip fits into smaller rugosities, to initiate camming, but that magnifies the pressure to where it even broke the granite; the original design was a broader edge that fit less flared cracks, but spread the contact more. Interesting to see how "little things" like webbing against rock becomes the weakest spot. Overall encouraging tests at least as strong as the mfg spec, when pull is straight, rock is strong, etc.
still think the pointier tooth might be a better design as it keys into the rock better and still out preforms it’s ratings with good placement. you’re more likely to get complete failures with way lower forces if the camming isn’t initiated properly or if the cam wiggles out of place.
Tricams are fucking amazing. I seriously doubt myself ever time I leave the ground without them. They just notoriously work in the funkiest placements where almost nothing else would
Couldnt agree more! Our Idaho and western Montana climbs sometimes require them.
@@jimcarlson6219 Indeed. I can't count the number of placements that I would rather trust a tricam in over almost any other gear. Limestone pockets, check. Vesicles in basalt and other igneous rock, check. Odd metamorphic pockets, cracks, and flares, heck yeah. ID, MT, and the rest of the PNW they are almost always on my rack.
PINK TRI-CAM SHOUT OUT!!!!!!!!
... I miss climbing... :(
in the mid 70s i worked at rei. in the climbing dept. I had started climbing in the early 60s and had been part of the gear movement of starting with soft steel pitons on to cromoly pins and then slung machine nuts and small pebbles. Finally to stoppers and hexs. Out hardware buyer/engineer took a bunch of hardware to the Icycle canyon/levanworth area with a hydrolic jack and did a bunch of testing of placements and hardware. I remember the results as not very interesting (?) But the issue of the slings touching the rock under load were very concerning. I no longer climb but I would like to see more testing of slings in contact with the rock.
People put a LIKE !!! this is Gold! Ryan thank you very mutch.
This may be the most scientific channel on RUclips. Plenty of experiment channels out there, but nearly all of them are retreading known experiments. This is on of the ver few doing raw testing not just copying or taking known experiments to extremes for the lols. Hats off to y'all.
Just finished the Bolting Bible, excellent read, highly recommend it!
Glad you enjoy it!
You guys ROCK! Your hard work imagination and diligence informs my climbing practices. Keep up the good work!
I don’t trust rocks
"Pros and cons" at 04:24... Highly underated pun.
Good work!
A bit of math from the pulley coming out:
The upper limit of force multiplication is 2x (Rope doing a bend)
If we assume 90° we get a force multiplication of square root of 2, 22.15kn
100° would give us 20.13kn
120° would give us an outward pull of 1x, 15.66kn and all larger angles multiply the force less than 1x.
140° would give us an outward force of 10.71kn
I'm guessing that the angle at the pulley got a little tighter when you pulled on it compared to when it was under less pull.
I got the same result for 120°
I’ve caught two leader falls, both were on black tricams. I cleaned both of them, one of them requiring some fuss
These things are awesome. They fit in shallow, narrow cracks you’d never get a cam or nut in
I just bought two of the bigger tricams and they were delivered the day this came out! Great timing!
Thanks for the tricams, Carl Mitchell!
Tri-cams are some of my favorite. Considering my main crag is the Gunks, they work better than anything in horizontals in my opinion.
WNC here, excellent to have ole pinky on the rack...
@@kentwalker5392 Yes! Linville Gorge and Moore's Wall Tricams are almost a must for NC quartzite
Haha @Kent Walker the slabs in Pisgah demand nothing other than a pink in those eyebrows
Doesn't the newest CCC t-shirt have a pink tricam on it? Eat up those shallow horizontals
A handful of tricams, black thru blue, weighs the same as a #2 camalot and cover tips to full hands. Aside from the nuanced way they fit pods and pockets, they are way useful instead of cams to build belays on multi pitch climbs. Do not leave the ground without them.
I really like tricams. I think they fit awesome on horizontal cracks when using the"cam" features nose up. I always carry a full rack to the crag.
How "difficult" are they to place? The sling seems more wobbly than the wiring on a cam, so I was wondering if they’re easy to slide into a crack
I have a little experience with trad climbing (there are just no cracks in the rock here) and the cams I practiced with were nice and easy to place due to the metal wires, but these look nice and the nut function could give you more more options placing them, securing a multi pitch anchor against flipping upwards. (Sorry if my English translation sounds weird)
@@vfnt The new ones are triple sewn to make them stiffer and easier to place as compared to the originals... which are the ones you see taped up to add stiffness to the sling. There is a slight difference in the head shape between the OG pink and the new school ones. Best to have both lol.
@@vfnt they're not as easy as cams to place. But in horizontal cracks, since they are made of sling, it allow them to take a load without a permanent deformation. I usually place them with my index and major finger directly on the metal part. Hope i could help.
@@gabarsenault5924
Thank you for your quick answer.
The tip to place them will be useful. And thank you for mentioning the deformation of regular cams, I would not have thought of that. Will 100% take a closer look at them.
Have a great day!
@@okzsub949
Thank you for the extra information, especially on the different generations.
I will definitely take a look at them.
Have a great day!
For padding the scale and keeping the screen visible I would recommend self fusing silicone tape, also referred to as fusion tape or f4 tape. Self adhering and fuses into a solid block of silicone rubber. Originally made for wrapping pipes in aircraft I tend to use it a lot for making handles
I just got some from the Czech with cables instead of nylon or dyneema. Excited to see how they hold up.
From kuoba right? I've been using them too. They fit in all sorts of funky spots the camp ones don't work in. Not 100% on using them in passive mode though.
Thanks for this video! I love tricams and great to see these tests… now I know my love is justified
Appreciate the work put into this video! :)
Love the smell of break tests in the morning!
I love the jump at the end of your intro.
Test the new DMM half nuts. MBS is super low on the small ones, also I would be curious if they hold well in shallow placement (and if the rock holds)
Seconded! I’ve been insanely impressed with these things, they fit where nothing else will. I’ll happily pay for the nuts if you test them!
A really good and cheap way to protect your line scale from destruction would be to cut the bottom out of a 32oz nalgene water bottle (If it would fit…) or even just a 2 L Coke bottle if you need a bigger container; and stick the sling through the opening at the top so it could connect to the piece of protection while leaving the line scale inside the bottle and letting your rope connect to the other end of the line scale through the cut off bottom of the bottle. That way when all hell breaks loose the bottles frame will protect it and let it slam into the rock but you can still see the scale through the clear bottle.
I know it sounds ghetto but it works.
My twin brother loves tri-cams. Good to know they are pretty strong
super fascinating! this channel does not get nearly as much love as it deserves
Dude! This was awesome! I use tricams, I wouldn’t say often, but often enough to be (have been) curious at when they’d break. THANKS
Thanks for all the work this was an awesome one.
I'm sure someone on hear has a 3d printer that could print you a cover for the load cell. Probably print in tpu and actually could add thin ridge's all over than can bend to absorb impacts.
Asking again to test micro trax and other TR solo devices/ascenders
Include the Roll n Lock ...
Would probably be best to test on the drop tower when that's going
Could you test a fall on cordino on a double rope? Like when you ascend the rope in an emergency?
You shouldn't ever have much more than body weight on those rigs, maybe up to 2Kn. If you do you're doing it wrong! (So use a chest harness, if you don't already). And your fall factor should be tiny due to the amount of rope out and distance fallen.
Fantastic thanks dude, I use those all the time.
7:13 😭😭 it's complicated an bobby just 🤷🏾♂️ it's pretty cool
I am deathly afraid of heights but I love to skydive and go on the biggest roller coasters in the United States. But I would never climb anything more than a ladder to get on my roof. And I am fascinated with your channel been watching for like 2 days its not something I'd ever do but it's got me hooked on watching it.
This episode is super good enough for sure!
Just started watching our vids, awesome work. I notice a lot of the pulls involve (real world) situations where slings are pulled around corners. Would be interested to see some tests pulling various slings around angled rocks and comparing force on rope side compared to the anchor side, plus the effect on breaking force on sling compared to theoretical.
No point having bomber placement if sling pulling against a flint arete...
I've taken a few bomber falls onto pink tri-cams in the Gunks. And a tri-cam saved me a copperhead placement on the Prow on the Column (6th pitch). I love them. I think the math on the forces on the bolt is 15.66kN/cos(100 degrees) = 18.16kN. However, I was in a statics & dynamics course in 1981; this could be way wrong :)
Isn't it that there are two vectors both with a magnitude of 15.66 pulling in different directions with an angle of 100 between them?... So x = 15.66 + 15.66*cos(100) = 12.94 and y = 15.66*sin(100) = 15.42. Then use Pythagorean to combine the component vectors: sqrt(12.94^2+15.42^2) = 20.13kN
Or you can use the double cosine of half the angle, since we are simply taking the bisector of two equal magnitude vectors as B G mentioned. We get the same 15.66*2*cos(50) = 20.13kN.
@@barongerhardt the fuck bro some freakin maths here jjjj love it!
I dug this episode, I just bought some tricams and have started using them, nice to see they can work, interesting about the redirect vs. rubbing against the rock I assumed but interesting to see.
Yesssss! Micro nuts please finally. I’m really intrigued
Interesting video; thanks for making the effort of testing and sharing your results. While some may feel compelled to challenge details of the math, etc., at least you've done the work in a realistic setting (real rock, real placements) that gets anyone interested in knowing almost the "whole way" to understanding how these are likely to perform in similar situations.
That tree is amazing.
Thanks for testing! Would love to see black tricam test
The thing with wide angles and loading is that a relatively small load deflecting the line of pull can generate a relatively large load along the two strands. Your dynamometer was measuring the load on one of the strands, so, it was getting the "big number" - the load on the redirect that popped would have been relatively small. If, on the other hand, the angle had been very narrow, it would have been a higher load on the redirect than on the single strand, up to double, if the angle were very small. Think about what it looks like when you make a 2-to-1 pulley system, like the one on slacksnap ... it's like your redirect, but with a very narrow angle. Widening the angle makes a 2-to-1 pulley system pull less, not more.
The takeaway is that the rock your redirect was bolted too appears to have failed under a relatively low load.
“Tryin to get to 100k subscribers” happy ya almost at 300k buddy
Thanks Carl.
A set of tri cams was going to be my next goal to buy before I damaged my back and had to hang up the climbing rack. Thinking about dusting off the rack and replacing the soft stuff so I can get my daughter climbing soon, which should be awesome. She basically gets a belay bunny and all the climbing routes she can handle 😊
Dude, start climbing again. I've no right femoral nerve, I have a 3 level cervical fusion (C4-C7), went through a year of cancer in 2021, and am just generally worn out at age 69. I still get out climbing 2-3 times a week. Still get up the occasional 12. I've been in a fighting retreat for 20 years, actually learning to climb better as my physicality has diminished.
And I climb with my younger (34) daughter when she's in town.
Just have to wonder if sliding a piece of plastic hose over the sling to protect it from rock abrasion would not greatly increase break strength?
Dude that's a fantastic idea!
the force on the redirect maxes out at 2x and since the angle under 60 its less the the full force essentially use the multiplication factor from bridle forces as a division factor
Those things are skookum!!! Great video
Why does the linescale have to be right next to the cam, bolt, nut etc. could you not put it near the pulley setup? Where it is safe
Best way to place the pink one, is nice corners
Great video
You guys should film some of these test with a phantom camera. Link up with the SloMo guys. Would be awesome footage
Yeah I thought that brown placement looked suspect. Interesting how easy it is for the sling to become the weak link though.
More bomber than I was expecting, would whip if I had any! Have you ever tested cams in limestone?
"Trust gear, not the rocks"
very interesting
Trust gear not rocks is a good mantra for southern Arizona. It’s commonly said it’s a good piece if the rock holds…
All hail tricams! I have a test request which has very little/no information out there - Sometimes when you place a nut, the carabiner you clip to it runs over a horrible edge (and you've shown those carabiners breaking at low loads!), so sometimes we loop something soft like a sling directly through the wire loop and clip that. I imagine under any load that would really pinch down and cut the sling (much like the BD thumb loops did without their special doubled-over sling), so would be super enlightening to me (and I'm sure others) to see what kind of force cuts: ~10mm dyneema sling, ~16mm nylon sling, something like 7mm cord looped through, and anything else you can think of under that condition. I would love to know which is best to keep me alive!
Girth hitch another nuts wire to extend the placement
@@largeformatlandscape wouldn't that mega bend the wire?
Obrigado por compartilhar!
Saudações desde Brasil!
Just wondering tricams placed the other way round would be better. Ie the bend radius of the sling not being as sharp (ie the sling nor being smooshed against the rock) ? That's way the instructions say to place them from what I remember ?
Don't you dare break a pink tricam! They're my favorite piece of gear...
Love it my favorite type of pro
Can you test the tricams in icy cracks?
very interesting! thanks
It’s a good job you were there Bobby 😂🤣😂
I did the math and the bolt likely reached a peak force of 20.6k peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. That's factoring a margin of error of a couple hundred turkey clubs.
nice work
Did the rock break off in the one test where the tricam came out? Am I the only one worried about that? The placement seemed just fine
Thanks for the great content!
I would be very interested in you trying to break some trees - I think it would be interesting to know what you can expect from different trees in different situations. My assumption is that any significant (~1ft in diameter) tree is super good enough, but it would be great to *know*.
I'm pretty sure the strength of a tree as an anchor depends on the root structure and soil conditions. If you could standardize the soil conditions then you might be able to compare the holding power of the root structures of different tree species.
Tree murderer!!
In situations where the tree is growing in rock, it's very difficult to say, depends heavily on how it's rooted. If you are slinging it close to the ground, 12" and up on a living, non-rotting tree is definitely super fine on the wood side, the big question is in the root system. Would not recommend slinging a tree much higher than a couple feet unless you are capable of assessing root conditions, tree species and health, etc. You could always take a TRAQ course, but that's kind of excessive for this. Tree species also has a lot to do with it, in good soil, with a line at the top, you can break a 1/2" double braid rigging line before something like a live oak would uproot or break, whereas a sand pine in the same soil would be likely to uproot, and something like chinaberry or popcorn would absolutely just snap first. Much like with rock, I say trust the rigging, don't trust the rigging points.
Can you make a plexi or see threw bubble around the line scale
You can also mount a go pro inside so you get the full reading
!00k subs lets go!!
when I was 16 years old ,I bought my first tricam and im alive cause stoped my twin ropes 8 mts fall in las Cañadas
Any good materials out there for reslinging tricams?
I don't place these (ever?) but I think I remember reading that the retaining pin that the webbing connects to can get damaged eventually. I was wondering if any of the retaining pins got bent on these during the tests? I think I remember reading that the distance the retaining pin sticks out on each side should be equal, and if it's not equal, the pin is bent and weakened.
7:25
@@JasperJanssen haha - thanks i missed that part!
Cool vid! I'd be curious to see you break an edelrid assisted braking resistor.
Great to see how well they hold in poor placements - always go for 5 points of contact, not 3!
Mike Rogers cameo!
Can you compare the abalak cam?
How do these multiplier pulleys work. Awesome
You can test if setting carabiner locks in quick draw opposite to each other changes any thing.
Let's say 120°,
15kn on the rope.
The vector parallel to the bolt (pull out)
Is 0.5 of each rope, 2 rope 100% of pull works to pull out the bolt
Please test the trango bigbro in real rock
I did your math assuming a 135 degree angle, and got a force of 11.48 kN in the direction parallel to the bolt, i.e. the bolt with the pulley attached got pulled straight out of the rock by a 11.48 kN force. Do you think that could bend your bolt hanger like that? I just added together the two components parallel to the bolt.
If your angle was about 80 degrees off a straight pull (100 degree inside angle on the rope), and your force was 15.66kN, then the resultant force on the bolt that blew up the rock was only about 20.13kN.
If that angle went to 90 degrees then the resultant force is about 22.15kN.
It seems that the bolt may have been in bad rock.
Does the plastic sleeve slide on the tricam sling? Should it be positioned over the point on the rock where the sling bends?
My biggest note is all the placements could be improved a bit. Would be interesting to see you retest with better placements from someone who uses tricams more. Great job making these videos! Is that static line in your pulley system?
If you think about it though, sub par placement means nothing if the nose or sling breaks before the cam comes out of the rock. And these forces are more inline of what you'd get when placing them in the real world
What altitude are you at? Pretty sure chemically weathered rock breaks easier than physically weathered. Alabama Hills versus 10,000 feet up Mt. Whitney. That could be a test, granite at 2000 feet, 6000 feet and 12000 feet with the same gear and nearly identical crack widths and placements.
I suspect that mineral composition is going to give you more variables than weathering but between the two you have thousands of micro differences in rock that we would call granite. -Bobby
is this the same aluminium for dyneema tricam and nylon tricam? they could have used a lighter aluminium for this model.
Good Question. Not sure.
The pinky rated at 9Kn active and 7Kn passive, and if I understand through the mal-function, there was a exceed rated reading of 11Kn.. Question: At knowing that the the max rating is 9Kn, for an active placement, would you whip?
Yes -Bobby
I
I think i'll buy a set of tricams next.
They’re awesome! Just make sure to practice cleaning them on the ground - they’re not the most intuitive
Thanks for the tipp.
I always play around with new gear before i put my whole trust in it.
I've got a bunch of old 20+ year old gear, including barely to never used cams and rope, interested? also my first harness from '94ish
also got a tricam that was left behind as a emergency retreat piece over a decade ago that I recovered..
test the tricams in other orientations, including the evo tricams which have angled rails.
I have fallen on the pink tricam (F@ck all damage to it), here at Arapiles we have a lot weird little finger pockets nothing else will fit in but a tricam .... a bit of a bitch to get out, but that's the 2nd's problem
Micro camps! go for it!
Now we just need you to test stacked tricams. The large ones were made for that. @howNOTtoHIGHLINE
I've heard of that but have yet to see someone try that. That would be interesting. I suppose in theory it would work.
what about a break test of Z4s? they seem a bit less durable than a C4
I caught a dude taking a whip on the smallest Z4 there is that was permanently fused in the rock and rusted. It held. I think it's got more to do with placement than anything else.
I don't even wanna know how long it took to clean those....
And I think I’m a gear expert
WHICH I AM
But damn dude……you win:D